WEBVTT - Alibaba Splits Into Six Units 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:05.640 This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.400 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.640 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.600 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebec from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.319 We've been talking about Ali Baba, certainly a name that 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.640 is front and center today. It's up about fourteen percent 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.160 as we speak, jumping. I think it's the biggest intra 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.120 day climbed since January. It all has to do with 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.600 plans to split into six units. So we want to 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:37.760 get to the news and the impact it's having on 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.440 the overall Chinese names at trade here in the United States. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.400 With more on the news, let's bring in Bloomberg News 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.400 Equities reporter that follows the Chinese ADRs. The trade in 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.839 the US is chen is here in our Bluemberg interactive 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.520 broker studio. Ishan tell us about the news. First of all, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.960 I feel like it's interesting that Jack Mak comes back 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.240 after missing for a year. That was yesterday and then 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.440 we get this news today. So walk us through the 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.320 news and maybe the significance of it. Yeah, great, great. First, 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.960 thanks for having me today and you know, it's definitely 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.440 a very interesting week for Ali Baba. Today. The news 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.640 is showing it like a radical restructure and plan for 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.800 Ali Blabba because and now it's going to split the 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:23.840 whole business unit Empire into six individeo units including e commerce, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:29.000 cloud and also media, and it potentially pays the road 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.520 for them to raise funds and eventually explore the IPOs 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:38.399 of individeo units. So unlock's value that investors sees potentially right, 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.560 and I think it's more than a lock value because 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.360 you know what analysts and investors are telling me, they 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.720 see it as a wing wing situation for Ali Baba 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.680 and Beijing. So first of all, it's for sure like 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.760 a lock value for investors if you look at do 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.960 like a mass on the you know, some of parts 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.000 of each individ units is treating like it should be 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.080 way higher than currently where it is trading now. But 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.880 also thinking about from the regulatory perspective, as we all 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.600 know that Beijing over the past two years have been 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.120 having this sweeping crackdown on the tag industry and the 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.960 main concern was that, you know, the concentrated power of 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.640 Ali Baba and many tag firms is not helpful or 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:26.120 healthy in terms of competition or innovation in the industry. 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.480 So now that Ali blahbla what is doing is to 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:34.240 break the big empire into pieces, so in a way 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:40.080 that should potentially is the concern from Beijing from the regulators, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.600 and this is a move also should you know, get 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.440 the blessing from them. And it's great to have you 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.239 hear each and because obviously you're one of our star 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.520 reporters on the Equis team, but I also know this 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.320 is a rare move right when you're thinking about technology 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.080 companies specifically based in China. So what do you think 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.800 this means for the industry and could potentially be template 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:04.200 for other companies to follow. Yeah, that's a great question. Actually, 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.120 I have seen analysts and investors saying this as a 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.440 game changer for the industry going forward, and it could 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.320 serve as a blueprint for other firms such as like 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:18.040 JD dot Com, Tenson or bay Do to explore a 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:23.920 similar paths. And Tenson could be a most most reasonable 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.720 candidate here for a breakup because it has huge influence 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:33.720 just as bah Bah, and it has different business lines. Actually, 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.160 I already started to divestis some of the units, but 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.120 still there are romantic entities could become standard long segments. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.320 Hen would Jack might have done this without the Chinese 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:49.440 government kind of putting pressure on the internet sector. And 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.400 I'm wondering if this if Ali Baba was in the 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.360 United States, would US regulators you think, similarly been saying 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.520 we've got to push for a breakup. I'm curious what 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.160 analysts how they're weighing in on that, if they are, 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.960 I'm I haven't seen enough reporting there, but it's a 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:09.360 very good question. And I was saying, you brought up 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.800 Jack Mah. I think it's interesting because this news today 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.880 also callincidized with the news we saw yesterday that Jack 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.600 mar was spotted back in China again after a year 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.640 more than a year of like traveling or staying abroad. 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.040 Right um, the market of course took that also as 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.239 a very positive sign because Beijing right now is pushing 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.000 and saying that it wanted to support private enterprise to 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:40.359 revive its economy, but it really needs to gain the 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.839 confidence from the companies and investors after you know, a 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.240 series of crackdowns of different industries. So now that Jack 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.640 Mall is coming back and then with this split plan 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.760 appeared to you know, pay road for you know, the 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.240 company's future. These are all like a turning the sentiment 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.039 of Ali blah blah, but also Chinese ado US in general. Yeah, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:02.760 they were all up today, right, or a lot of 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.719 them were. And I know you've also covered different calls, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.520 say like with Marco Kolonovic over at JP Mortgage, he 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.240 was talking about buying the dip on Chinese equities in 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.480 this particular back even during right in early October, during 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.240 that whole reopening type trade, and some of that had 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:22.400 paid off. But are you seeing any other analysts kind 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.000 of still calling for maybe still continuing to buy this 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:27.880 or do you think it's run its course? Because it's 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.080 interesting if you're looking at the right as far as 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.599 how they've performed so far this year more probably kind 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.960 of flat, not not really obviously so the big rally 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.800 in the fil quarter right because on the JPM call 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.120 we walked together on a story jazz and at that 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.640 time I think the call the mancisis is about the reopening. 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:51.599 But remember that reopened rally we have staying froll November 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.640 last year, have fizzle outs a bit, especially after a 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.720 quarter of you know, like Earning's prey. There's quite a 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:03.200 bounce off of that low right, casino stocks in hotels, yeah, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.239 also like a travel related names, but it has already 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.600 played out, so investors now at the point of they 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.240 wanted to see, all what is the fundamental value of 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.560 these companies. They are focused on the regulatories, certainty and certainty, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.320 but this news definitely help in terms of, you know, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.080 the regulatory perspect that's what I want to escation because 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.360 I do feel like depending on I felt like we 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.960 went through a period of even we start with the pandemic, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:29.880 you know, shut down, open up, like it was just 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.520 kind of startling. And even with the tech sector, China 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.919 has been very clear about wanting to be performing in 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.400 the global economy on a higher tech level, like this 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.760 is important to the global growth and the growth in 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:46.400 China specifically, but there's a lot of oversight about privacy 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:51.160 and data gathering. And I do wonder does a move 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:56.040 like this come tech entrepreneurs in China and investors when 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.000 it comes to investing in these names, or is it 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.480 a reminder that China and Chinese officials could at any 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.080 moment be like, you know what, I still don't like 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.479 how big this company is or the impact it is 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.080 and that they could move in. I'm just wondering if 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.840 things are settling down in terms of that, right, I 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:17.400 think that's a very good question. And back to the 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.800 news here. I think one question investors are asking on 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:25.640 today's news is where are like this potential in the 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.480 video units or Spain offs of Ali Babago into a 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.240 list in Hong Kong or in China the domester market 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.600 because ever since you know, did the IPO debacle in 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.040 New York, right, Beijing has been calling for the so 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.600 called homecoming listing of Chinese companies. So these are reasonable 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.520 speculations that even they break up and eventually list some 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.440 of the units, maybe they offer the shares or it 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.200 should the shares closer to home. So if they do that, 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.120 what regulation absolutely say? What kind of message does that sense? Right? 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:00.520 I think it's in line with where Beijing is pushing 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:05.000 for more regulations in terms of the listing share offering, 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:09.480 and they also wanted to give access to domestic investors 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.800 to all them trade and all these you know national 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.600 bit like bit tech firms. So maybe no listings in 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:20.600 the US potential, Yeah, that's no. I just think it's 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.520 really interesting in terms of the sector and how it's 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.560 been playing out. Rye No, definitely, so really we don't 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.600 have a ton of details yet right as well as 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.600 the timetable could be moving forward on this because I'm 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.520 sure investors are eaching to know. Yeah, yeah, I like 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.880 today's I think the first step in terms of splitting 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.160 up and couldn't potentially paved the road for a wave 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.520 of IPOs, But we haven't seen any details in terms 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.720 of timeline or you know what, what is the IPO 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.640 plans for the individual units and still doing cost cutting 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.440 to share up the bottom line, so that that's business 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.000 as usual. Um, thank you so much. It's an important 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.439 sector and I love talking about those Chinese names that 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.720 trade here in the United States. Ishanshen, thank you so much. 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.880 She's Bloomberg News Equities reporter. She follows the Chinese ADRs 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:07.720 that trade in the US. Jenning us here in our 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.080 Bloomberg Interactive broke or studio looking at shares of Ali 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.800 Baba right now, still higher on the day, just off 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.319 their best levels of the session again of about thirteen 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.959 point eight percent. And we did talk earlier about the 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.880 Nasdack Golden Dragon. That index also higher on the day, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.520 largely because of the moves that we saw in Ali Baba, 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.800 that index is up about three point four percent. Just 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.600 so definitely that whole sector, as we talked about earlier, 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.960 definitely some outperformance. It's definitely for sure and something that 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.600 investors are definitely going to keep their eyes on, especially 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.920 like we're talking about as far as when it comes 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.280 to even with these Chinese listed US stocks in the US, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.840 how they've been outperforming at last quarter but obviously underperforming 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.040 this year. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.480 Catch US live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.760 Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the Ion Radio app, and 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:04.679 the Bloomberg Business or watch US live on YouTube. Jess, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.240 here's the startling statistics about one profession. For those in it, 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.360 some forty six percent would not recommend it as a career. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.240 Only thirty three percent feel fairly compensated. Ninety three percent 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.040 think the shortage in their field will only get worse. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.520 So those are pretty rough numbers. They are. And when 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.280 I know what profession you're about to talk about, and 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.559 this is something that was pivotal, especially it always is pivotal, 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.440 but especially in the wake of the pandemic. Absolutely, we're 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.920 talking about nursing, which, as you said, we were reminded 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.160 was so crucial to get us through the COVID pandemic. 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.280 So let's get more on the state of nursing. Great 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.080 to have back with us, Doctor aman Abuse. She's CEO 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.280 and co founder at Incredible Health. Her company connects hospitals 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.520 with nurses and other healthcare workers. She joins us via 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.480 zoom from Austin, Texas. Doctor Abuse, Nice to be checking 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.320 in with you again. How are you. I'm good. Thank 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.280 you so much for having me. Hey, so listen, I 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.359 shared with our audience and viewers some of us totistics. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.280 Tell us about your State of the Nursing Report, which 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.120 I believe was just released today. Yeah, I was released 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:09.040 to date. It's our fourth annual report, and we use 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.760 hiring data from over seven hundred thousand nurses in our 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.360 in our network on the Incredible Health platform, and then 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.880 we surveyed an additional three thousand two So as far 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.640 as just the main findings, I'd love to start off 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.680 with some good news. Actually, there's been some improvements since 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.040 last year. So eighty percent of nurses plan to stay 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.760 in the in their field until retirement, which is a 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.160 big increase. It was only at fifty five percent last year. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.760 And then there's also been a ten percent degrease in 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.600 the number of nurses who are planning to leave their 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.079 current roles this year. So that's that means that turnover 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.960 will hopefully be improving in the next twelve months too. 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:45.920 Can we can we ask you why that good news? 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:47.760 Why do you think those numbers have improved, because I 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:49.480 know they were pretty dismal when we were talking to 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.000 you before they were think, I think the main reason 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.760 is that the pandemic and the intensity of it has 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.319 subsided a bit. And then we're also through the tridemic. 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.080 You know, there was r RSB flu time period two, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.200 so you know they're looking their nurses are a little 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.400 more optimistic about the long term in the future, their 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.839 future careers. It was a nurse in my neighborhood, m 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.040 a neighbor who she was like, I'm done, I'm done, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.000 wouldn't go like just because it was just too much 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.040 UM coming at her. So I can totally relate. UM 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.440 walk us through some of the numbers though that weren't 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.920 so great. Yeah, I know. So now having said that, 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:28.760 even with that, some of that good news that's a 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.680 little bit more longer term looking that they want to 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.960 stay in their careers in the long term, there there's 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.079 still a lot of frustration about what's going on currently 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.600 with understaffing, would burnout and with pay. So, you know, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.200 more than sixty two percent of the nurses say they're 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.880 not hopeful for the next generation of nurses and forty 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.120 six percent would actually not recommend a career in nursing. Um. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.120 When asked about, you know, staffing shortages, ninety three percent 0:12:55.360 --> 0:13:00.520 of the respondent said that they expect they are experiencing 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.439 the nursing shortage getting even worse and so and they 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.760 have all set over seventy percent have pointed to inadequate 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:12.559 staffing being one of their top concerns. What I'm wondering about, Oh, 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.880 I was curious about as far as what could be 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:20.800 done to help healthcare workers feel more supported. Yeah, there's 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:22.760 there's quite a bit that all of us can that 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.320 all of us can do for for the hospital executives 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.479 in particular, they can definitely invest more in career advancement, 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.360 that more training opportunities for nurses so they're encouraged to 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.040 stay in their health system. There's also quite a bit 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.640 more work that needs to happen with providing more flexible scheduling, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.920 so allowing nurses to pick pick not just full time roles, 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.240 but also part time roles, and not only twelve hour 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.440 shifts but also four hours and eight hour shifts and 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.160 weekend shift options, just so they can fit work into 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.240 their into their into their lives a little easier. And 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.240 then you know there of course, like the other big 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.800 trend that we're seeing is with wages. You know, wages 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.400 has increased overall. We're seeing a fourteen percent increase in 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.480 sign on bonuses, in the use of sign on bonuses overall, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.680 and the actual amount of sign on bonuses has also 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.440 was that ever a thing. Years ago. I had a 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.120 sister who was a nurse. I don't remember her. I 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.880 we're talking about a sign on bonus. It wasn't a 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.439 thing at all. We've also seen the actual hourly rate increase. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.440 I think the reason it's become a thing is because, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.440 you know, there's a huge supply shortage here right There's 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.280 a huge demands supply demand and balance, and as a result, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.480 because we don't have enough workers, wages will go up. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:35.400 So as far as kind of piecing all of this together. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.920 Are there more nurses that are planning now to actually 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.960 stay in this rule a year from now versus obviously before, 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.040 because you were explaining all those statistics now, So if 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.880 they are planning to stay, does that potentially bode well, Yeah, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.400 it bodes well that they're more likely to stay. Now, 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.200 keep in mind the turnover still high, right, the turnover 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.600 annually is at twenty two percent, but thankfully much smaller 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.600 percentage of nurses are looking to leave the field altogether. 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.040 You know, one of the things that I remember, doctor 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.000 obvious Dade from I think we talked last time, what's 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.960 the average I hate that word, what's the average nurse make? 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.120 But what's the average salary in nursing? It's about ninety 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:21.200 three thousand naturally okay, natural average obviously varies dramatically by state. Yeah, no, 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.320 I right, lots of variations. And I know we've talked about, 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.080 as you said, there's not necessarily a lot of people 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.640 coming into this profession. Once again, is it, you know, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.560 opening up immigration and I know we've talked about this 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.960 in the past. Is that the fix? What's the fix 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.640 in terms of encouraging people to enter and I often 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.520 find that it's a lot of people from other countries 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.480 that are nursing. So there's two keyball nucks that are 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.720 happening in the US. Number one is that nursing school. 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.560 So there's there's tens of thousands of Americans on wait 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.160 lists to get into nursing schools, but the nursing schools 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.920 cannot handle more capacity, and so we need to expand 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.360 nursing full capacity in this country and train more nurses. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.680 And then there's another ball in that happening right after 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.800 nursing school. And then there's not enough programs at hospitals 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:12.200 and other other employers that train nurses to become more specialized. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.280 And so both of those are the two huge ball 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:16.920 in next that we have just got about thirty seconds. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.640 We've talked with you about this before. Any progress that 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.320 we're making on this, Are you seeing it? Not? Honestly, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.560 not yet not it's not showing up in the data yet. 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.400 But I know, I know that many nursing leaders and 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.360 HR leaders and nursing education leaders are actively working on it. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:33.760 They have to be stressed out because if you think 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:35.840 about an aging population, we're all going to just need 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:41.080 more of certainly healthcare services overall, but definitely nursing in particular. Eman, 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.440 good to check in with you again. Doctor iman Abu's age. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.360 She's co founder and chief executive officer at Incredible Health 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:50.720 JOININGSVA Zoom from Austin, Texas. Yeah, I mean, I think 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.400 about it, right. We just know that an aging population 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.320 is just going to need a lot of healthcare going 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.120 foe and you do wonder whether the doctors will be there, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.760 the nurses will be there, absolutely, but then hearing about 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.679 the wage gains signing bonuses, will that be enough to 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:08.960 continue to get workers in that field as long as 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.359 the pool of workers right there? All right, you're listening 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.960 and watching Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg Radio. You're 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.600 listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.359 weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.840 the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.119 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:35.879 Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. Okay, I'm just 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.760 gonna say it. This is one of my favorite stories 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:38.919 of the day. It's one that will be in the 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.080 new issue of Bloomberg BusinessWeek on newstands later on this week, 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.720 already online at Bloomberg dot com Sash Business Week, and 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.800 it's of course on the Bloomberg terminal. It's about how 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.640 China has become the lender of last resort for developing countries. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.959 Why you should care because it has lots of implications 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.320 geopolitically and more. With more, let's head to Washington, DC. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.760 That's where we find Sean don And is Bloomberg News 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.919 senior economics writer. He is on zoom and then in 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.840 our Bloomberg a director broker studio, we have Bloomberg Business 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.280 wee get or Joel Webber. Joel. I feel like China's 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.280 involvement around the globe, especially in the developing world, has 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:13.840 grown a lot. We know a lot of it by 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.159 way of its Belt and Road initiative. This story by 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.720 Sean now takes it up a notch. Yeah, and it 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:23.080 actually looks at sort of the soft power and you're 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:28.080 right about this epic project building spree that China has 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.760 been been on. This is a little different and it 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:36.040 actually shows that basically China has been in a quiet 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:40.080 little fight with IMF and and the amount of money 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:45.640 here is really the crazy part. So, Sean, what how 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.159 did you find this story and what stands out to 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.959 about these numbers. Yeah, look, this is really the results 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.959 of some really great work by some economists at an 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.520 outfit called AID Data, which is at William and Mary 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.440 in Virginia, the World Bank, the Keel Institute in Germany, 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.159 and Carmen Reinhardt up at Harvard, who is one of 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.560 the world's leading experts on the kind of history and 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:13.280 politics of debt and their impact on crises. They did 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:18.639 this amazing work where they dived into really central bank 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.960 records and other records around the world and identified this 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.480 two hundred and forty billion dollars that had been loaned 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:31.879 out by China over the last twenty years to twenty 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.800 two countries. And these are twenty two countries in the 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.199 developing world. And this is a different kind of lending 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.919 from China in that what we've grown used to is 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:46.040 China financing big infrastructure projects like ports in the developing world. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.400 This is actually what we would call rescue lending. These 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.840 are bailouts to countries that have gotten into trouble, to 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.680 their central banks to try and help them ride out crises. 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.679 And that takes China into a whole different area of 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.560 lending and, as you say, starts to establish it in 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.119 its central bank as a lender of last resort in 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.600 the global economy and the potential rival to institutions that 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.280 have been around for since the end of World War two, 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.879 really like the International Monetary Fund and that have become 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.119 the normal way that we respond to crises. So you 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:29.040 write that exact comparisons are difficult, but China's one hundred 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.680 and eighty five billions surpassed one hundred and forty four 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.879 billion dispersed by the IMF over this same period. What 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.280 period are we talking in? Why is it so difficult 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:43.200 to compare? Yeah, So, look, the IMF gives out concessional 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:48.480 emergency loans with a lot of conditions attached, requiring reforms. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.439 The type of lending that we're talking about in this period, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.280 which is between two thy sixteen and twenty twenty one, 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.440 which catches the lead up too in the first couple 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.199 of years pandemic and some of the economic turmoil that 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.840 we've seen since then. The type of lending you get 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:10.639 from the People's Bank of China comes via these swaps 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:16.200 to central bank reserves and it sometimes comes from state 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:21.200 owned banks with higher interest rates and different ten years. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:25.840 The kind of terms of lending are difficult to compare, 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.119 and that's what we're talking about there. But the total 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.280 sum that we're talking about there, and this is the 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.520 amount that's drawn down on credit lines rather than the 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:38.280 amount that's committed by either China or the IMF, means 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.000 that the one hundred and eighty five billion dollars that 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.119 China sent out over that period these just these twenty 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.000 two countries, remember, is comparable to the one hundred and 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:53.240 forty four billion dollars that the IMF sent out dispersed 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.480 to member countries that we're dealing with various economic crises 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.919 in the same period. Okay, Sean, So what kind of 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.199 countries are we talking about here and what do we 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:08.400 know about why they've needed it? And turned to China. Yeah, 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.440 so look, we're talking about countries like Pakistan, We're talking 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:16.760 about countries like Argentina, Sri Lanka. We're talking largely about 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:22.359 the poorer countries in the world and countries that have 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.080 run into debt problems over the years. Some critics would 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.560 charge that a lot of those debt problems have come 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.040 as a result of Chinese lending. In fact, that's what 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:35.560 the Biden administration and previous administrations would claim. This kind 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.400