Speaker 1: What's up, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory, presented to
Speaker 2: you Vibe Foul Territory Network.
Speaker 1: I'm Noah Hiles.
Speaker 2: Joining me as always are my co host platinum Key
Speaker 2: aka Mark and Josh Harrison.
Speaker 1: We got a big show for you today.
Speaker 2: The Pirates go three and three on a trip out west,
Speaker 2: probably one of their more winnable road trips on the year,
Speaker 2: and they're coming off of avoiding.
Speaker 1: A sweep against the always daunting and tough to beat
Speaker 1: Colorado Rockies. So we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk.
Speaker 2: About the state of where they are this year and
Speaker 2: if they should by at the deadline. We're gonna talk
Speaker 2: some catchers as well. There was a trade since we
Speaker 2: last recorded. We'll talk about that, We'll talk about Henry Davis,
Speaker 2: and then we will always wrap it up like we
Speaker 2: do on Monday with platinum Key's Key of the Week. So, guys,
Speaker 2: I know when every fan watching this show sees that question,
Speaker 2: should they buy, It's a no brainer to them, right,
Speaker 2: Like of course, you add, right, like this team needs help,
Speaker 2: it needs to get better. I see how That's why
Speaker 2: I see the way they feel on that right But
Speaker 2: if you look at this from an objective standpoint, do the.
Speaker 1: Pirates really deserve further investment right now now?
Speaker 2: If you're trying to win, Sure, But like I'm asking
Speaker 2: from like just an overall baseball standpoint, because in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways you're paid to evaluate what is best
Speaker 2: for the organization. Is what they're going to add at
Speaker 2: the deadline, Because let's be realistic, I don't expect them
Speaker 2: to add Yard aunt Alvarez or Trek Scubele or Erotis Chatman.
Speaker 1: So let's just assume they add.
Speaker 2: You know, two war worth of value the deadline. Is
Speaker 2: that enough to get this team to the playoffs?
Speaker 1: And if not, I mean what what?
Speaker 2: Why would you bo? I'll open up the Florida either
Speaker 2: one of you guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll start here just because I think it matters.
Speaker 3: Like those two War players where they fill in. If
Speaker 3: you're adding two War to this bullpen, I feel a
Speaker 3: little bit more confident. But if you're adding two War
Speaker 3: anywhere else outside of the bullpen, that that made me
Speaker 3: make me a little apprehensive as far as their chances.
Speaker 3: And I get what you're saying, no, because you look
Speaker 3: at like the series against Colorado and this team. Are
Speaker 3: they built to, you know, go deep, like beyond just
Speaker 3: making the playoffs. And I think if it was any
Speaker 3: other team, a lot of teams would just be like,
Speaker 3: you know what, this is in the year. We'll wait
Speaker 3: and invest next year with improvements to all of our
Speaker 3: young stars. But this is the Pittsburgh Pirates and a
Speaker 3: fan base that has been starved just for a modicum
Speaker 3: of success like this. People are still talking about the
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen wild Card game, right, and not to diminish
Speaker 3: the accomplishments and like how awesome that game was, but
Speaker 3: this fan base needs a reminder that this team can
Speaker 3: win and can do that. And you only have so
Speaker 3: many years with Paul Skins. Obviously, now we have counter
Speaker 3: Griffin locked up, so that window is at least a
Speaker 3: little extended with Griffin, But the window to win with
Speaker 3: Skiings is so limited that I feel like you have
Speaker 3: to try this year. And it might not be worth
Speaker 3: it for any other team, but it would be worth
Speaker 3: it for I think this Pirates franchise and especially this
Speaker 3: front office.
Speaker 4: And I'll pig you back off of that, just to
Speaker 4: go a little bit off of that.
Speaker 5: You know, as a player, you know you have you're
Speaker 5: going to be realistic about where you are, you know,
Speaker 5: as a team and where you stand in a division
Speaker 5: wherever that is. But at the same time, when you
Speaker 5: know you're just in a little bit of the thick
Speaker 5: of it, you know, maybe just in a little bit.
Speaker 4: Of a hunt.
Speaker 5: Obviously where they stand right now, division doesn't look like
Speaker 5: it's gonna be you know, possible. But at the same time,
Speaker 5: we know what I think, eight and a half games
Speaker 5: anything can be. But I'm looking more at the wild card.
Speaker 5: I think there's a mix of quite a few teams
Speaker 5: that are you know, that one one and a half game,
Speaker 5: and you know there's a lot of teams that are
Speaker 5: gonna be having that same conversation, you know, do we
Speaker 5: add and if we do, how much do we add
Speaker 5: vices verse? You know, there's gonna be some teams that's
Speaker 5: just gonna stand pat But you know, just looking at
Speaker 5: the you know what Mark said with Pittsburgh, obviously you
Speaker 5: have Paul schemes, you got Connor, but uh, with them
Speaker 5: being a game game and a half, you know, around
Speaker 5: that wildcard, you still don't have a fully healthy team.
Speaker 5: You know, sometimes teams look at you know, guys coming
Speaker 5: off the injured list as you know, trade deadline because
Speaker 5: you're getting something that you didn't have. So in that case, Mark,
Speaker 5: when you're saying if they are to add a piece,
Speaker 5: I think obviously bullpen is where they're gonna need to add.
Speaker 5: And if they are in this situation to say if
Speaker 5: we are going to spend money, obviously you have to
Speaker 5: look at the bullpen because you look at O'Neill and
Speaker 5: connor being gone. You could also say we're buying when
Speaker 5: those guys get healthy.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you.
Speaker 5: Also know that you know time is ticking and those
Speaker 5: guys aren't there right now, so you still need to
Speaker 5: think about if they're not there.
Speaker 4: But we know offense isn't the issue.
Speaker 5: Even with those guys being out there have still found
Speaker 5: a way to you know, put some runs across. So
Speaker 5: the question is going to be remained is you know
Speaker 5: you around that wild card game or you know that
Speaker 5: that one one and a half game range.
Speaker 4: How aggressive are you going to be?
Speaker 5: And obviously with the Pirates obviously spending a lot more
Speaker 5: money than they have in the years past to start
Speaker 5: the season, no I get why you say, like is
Speaker 5: it worth it? But Mark, on the flip side, you
Speaker 5: only got so many years of Paul schemes in this,
Speaker 5: so they're in a tough spot. So as a player,
Speaker 5: it's like should you buy you know you asked. Most
Speaker 5: of the guys are going like, man, we got what
Speaker 5: we need here when we're healthy. But at the same time,
Speaker 5: you know, you know, you're a few pieces here they're missing.
Speaker 5: So if they're gonna have to get creative because if
Speaker 5: you're within that wildcard, you have to be able to
Speaker 5: say that.
Speaker 4: We're trying to win.
Speaker 5: And you know, I think for this team to try
Speaker 5: to win, I think it's more about getting some book
Speaker 5: pen pieces that are going to help you and you
Speaker 5: have to try to do your best with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just look at it. I don't think I
Speaker 1: have an answer one way or the other.
Speaker 2: I mean, like what I like to see them by, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what I like to see them by? Absolutely, because it
Speaker 2: it's more fun, right, It's more fun to write about
Speaker 2: a team that's going for it. It's more fun for
Speaker 2: the fans, it creates a better atmosphere in the ballpark.
Speaker 1: It's just more enjoyable to write it.
Speaker 2: But like if I am in the Pirates' front office,
Speaker 2: I'm just letting these next couple weeks play out and
Speaker 2: figure out what's gonna happen here, because I mean, the
Speaker 2: reality is there's three and a half games to separate
Speaker 2: eight teams. And when I read down the list of
Speaker 2: these teams Cardinals, Phillies, Cubs, Padres, Marlins, Nationals, Diamondbacks, Pirates,
Speaker 2: how many of these teams are The Pirates better than
Speaker 2: They're not better than the Cardinals, They're just not Like
Speaker 2: I've been waiting for the Cardinals to fall apart all year.
Speaker 1: They're not better than the Phillies. So those are two
Speaker 1: teams that are just better than you. The Cubs. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Cubs won the division last year, or no, they did,
Speaker 1: but they made.
Speaker 2: The playoffs last year. Padres are a playoff team last year.
Speaker 2: Marlins are one of the best teams in baseball this month.
Speaker 2: The Nationals Diamondbacks, I mean, I don't know how good
Speaker 2: they are, Like I think the Pirates are probably in
Speaker 2: that tier, but they're they're part of that.
Speaker 1: Like next tier out right now.
Speaker 2: And I know they're a little banged up, and I know,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not my money. I don't care how
Speaker 2: much of Bob Nutging's money gets spent. Like I think
Speaker 2: that that's great, but it's just like, realistically speaking, it's like,
Speaker 2: what are you looking to achieve here?
Speaker 1: Are you looking to just get to the playoffs?
Speaker 2: And how much help do you need to even get
Speaker 2: to the playoffs, because like if you can add you know,
Speaker 2: if you had the crystal ball, and it's like, all right,
Speaker 2: you just trade a couple of double A prospects outside
Speaker 2: your top ten and you can get a couple of
Speaker 2: solid relievers Connor Griffin and O'Neil Cruz get healthy.
Speaker 1: This team wins eighty five games, it's the final wildcard team.
Speaker 2: Everyone's happy, obviously you do that, but like, right now,
Speaker 2: to me, like I think this team needs a little
Speaker 2: bit more than just a little help, and I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's smart to trade away any prospect
Speaker 2: in your top ten this year because it's like what
Speaker 2: if you do that and you don't even make the playoffs?
Speaker 2: Because I don't think they're a playoff team and I
Speaker 2: don't think they're one good player away from a playoff team.
Speaker 2: I used to think that, but just watching them this month,
Speaker 2: then I know again they're missing Griffin and Cruise, but
Speaker 2: it's been bigger than that, So I just still.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the number one objective that
Speaker 2: would be on my mind is find someone to get
Speaker 2: Ozuna if you can get that payroll off your books,
Speaker 2: even if it means pairing him with a prospect, which
Speaker 2: happened with Larryano. I believe in sixteen they traded Frankie
Speaker 2: or yeah, it was in sixteen they traded Lariano with
Speaker 2: a prosper Rice Maguire Yeah to Toronto.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, sometimes you have to do that, and
Speaker 1: that to me is the.
Speaker 2: Better route because A, I think he's just You're just
Speaker 2: a better team if he's not on the roster. And
Speaker 2: b now you have twelve million dollars that you don't
Speaker 2: have to ask Bob Nutting for because he already gave
Speaker 2: you that twelve million dollars, so you can reallocate.
Speaker 1: That and it's a lot easier to get your team better.
Speaker 2: I just like just having covered the team, and I'm
Speaker 2: not reporting anything, it's just going.
Speaker 1: Off of it. Like it felt like they've already.
Speaker 2: Invested in a comfortable amount for this organization into this
Speaker 2: and I don't think they've proven to.
Speaker 1: Be anywhere near good enough to ask for more money. Again,
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: I'm rop I hope Bob Nudding gives them plenty of
Speaker 2: more money to spend and they go out and they
Speaker 2: get Trek Scugle, a Rhotis Chapman, they trade everyone. But like,
Speaker 2: I just don't think this is a club that's been
Speaker 2: good enough to deserve that type of additional investment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're looking at things objectively, so that's.
Speaker 1: All I see it.
Speaker 2: You can be to me in the comments on Twitter
Speaker 2: about what I just said, and that's okay, We're gonna
Speaker 2: take a quick break.
Speaker 1: Oh did you have anything yet?
Speaker 3: I was just going to throwing that if the Pirates
Speaker 3: do go on to run here so trade deadlines August third.
Speaker 3: Obviously there's that group of eight teams all in the
Speaker 3: NL wildcard rates. If things clarify, the Pirates gain an advantage,
Speaker 3: some teams fall off. They do have like the prospects
Speaker 3: to make these big moves. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 3: if you want trade and Edward Florentino orz but for
Speaker 3: this team, not for not for the but I mean
Speaker 3: they do have options if those.
Speaker 2: Are guys that you trade when you're a player away
Speaker 2: from the World Series.
Speaker 1: This team's two players away from go ahead.
Speaker 5: Josh, No, I was gonna say, the team has to
Speaker 5: put themselves in a position and make yeah, like, yes,
Speaker 5: you got to put yourself in a position to say, like.
Speaker 2: If they were the first place team in the Wildcard,
Speaker 2: I still wouldn't be considering trading Florentino or Cethernandez.
Speaker 1: Like that's a move you trade that. Again, that's like
Speaker 1: we are one big player away the World Series.
Speaker 2: They are in no scenario are they ever going to
Speaker 2: be better than the Braves or.
Speaker 1: The Dodgers or the Brewers. They're just not.
Speaker 2: Their ceiling is being the fourth best team in the
Speaker 2: National League. They're not even close to that ceiling right now.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I'm at a point where it's like
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would trade I don't.
Speaker 1: Even know who their number ten prospect is right now, but.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, got Sanford or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I mean maybe, but like it would have
Speaker 2: to be for somebody with multiple years of control. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I'm thinking just about twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: which again isn't probably how Ben Sherrington's thinking. It's definitely
Speaker 2: not how the fans are thinking. Yeah, but like in
Speaker 2: a pure baseball sense, I just don't.
Speaker 1: We've watched this team play like I don't know how
Speaker 1: many games.
Speaker 2: We're almost halfway through the season now, and they've just
Speaker 2: proven to be average.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 2: When we come back, we're gonna talk about something that
Speaker 2: has not been averaged. It's been a way below average.
Speaker 2: It's the catcher position here on Bucco Territory.
Speaker 6: You know why I are enjoying this minute because we're happy, Krats.
Speaker 6: We're happy because we're wearing mac welded.
Speaker 7: Yes, I'm six foot five and nobody can give me
Speaker 7: tall clothing, but mack Weldon allows me to have it.
Speaker 7: So I don't really have to care about how I look,
Speaker 7: and I still look good Because I don't put a
Speaker 7: lot of time into what I do to pick out
Speaker 7: my clothes. Mac Weldon takes care of it for me.
Speaker 6: Classic always in style made from the world's most comfortable
Speaker 6: performance materials. Summer gets sweaty, don't let unnecessary sweat spots emerge.
Speaker 6: Mack Weldon's air Knit X fabric helps you out. Their
Speaker 6: lightest fabric is fused with nylon mesh for maximum airflow.
Speaker 6: Skip the midday wardrobe changes the barely there feel also
Speaker 6: keeps you feeling more dry and fresh. Don't sweat the
Speaker 6: heat this summer. Feel as effortlessly.
Speaker 1: Cool as you look.
Speaker 6: With Mack Weldon, go to Mackweldon dot com and get
Speaker 6: twenty percent off your first order of one hundred and
Speaker 6: twenty five bucks or more with promo code foul. That's
Speaker 6: m A C K W E L d O N
Speaker 6: dot com code foul.
Speaker 2: All right, backstop talk is what this segment is named.
Speaker 2: And we've got us have some talks because right now, guys,
Speaker 2: I was talking with a friend who works in UH
Speaker 2: for another team in their baseball operations office, and I say,
Speaker 2: or I asked him, I said, if you were the
Speaker 2: Pirates heading into the offseason, what is your number one
Speaker 2: area that you're addressing. I was expecting infield depth. I
Speaker 2: was expecting bullpen help, maybe even starting pitching. He said,
Speaker 2: if I were running the Pittsburgh Pirates, I would be
Speaker 2: looking for a starting catcher. And I actually really like
Speaker 2: that take, because in reality, listen, I feel like I've
Speaker 2: been someone who's defended Henry Davis more than most in
Speaker 2: the Pittsburgh media. Not to say that like he's I
Speaker 2: never said he was like an amazing player or anything.
Speaker 2: But I said, I don't care about Henry Davis's offense
Speaker 2: as long as he's good defensively, as long as he's
Speaker 2: getting the best out of Paul Skeens and Mitch Keller
Speaker 2: and whoever else they pair him with, that's where his
Speaker 2: value comes into play. Well, right now, Paul Skeens isn't
Speaker 2: pitching to the best of his abilities.
Speaker 1: Right now, Henry Davis is a negative war player.
Speaker 2: And there's a difference between being a number two catcher
Speaker 2: defensive specialist and being a total nothing at the plate.
Speaker 2: Right now, Henry Davis, I don't even need to look
Speaker 2: it up. I mean, I think he's hitting below one forty.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, it's one thirty six. Josh, when you were playing,
Speaker 1: you had teammates who were pitchers that had a better
Speaker 1: batting average than that. People who did not even.
Speaker 3: Work had a better batting average thing.
Speaker 1: By like sixty to seventy points.
Speaker 2: Like Hedges was under two hundred, but like, I don't
Speaker 2: think he ever got below one fifty, and one fifty
Speaker 2: is like unacceptable.
Speaker 3: But against his edge, eighteen hits, eighteen hits the entire season, and.
Speaker 2: Hedges is one of the best defensive players of any
Speaker 2: position pounds for pound in baseball, so you're getting value there. Again,
Speaker 2: Henry is a below replacement level player, hitting like worse
Speaker 2: than Madison Bumgardner did in his prime.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's just borderline on it. It's not borderline.
Speaker 1: It's just unacceptable and.
Speaker 4: You gotta be better.
Speaker 5: And I know it's one of the things we highlighted
Speaker 5: obviously a lot of times throughout you know, conversations we
Speaker 5: have we've had about you know, offensive production from behind
Speaker 5: the plate, and oh man, if these guys can just
Speaker 5: you know, get the staff through and you know, be
Speaker 5: a rock for those guys being anchor and you know,
Speaker 5: lead them to the promised land. You know, you guys
Speaker 5: can hit two hundred well, as you said, one thirties,
Speaker 5: not two hundred. And like it's not like you're asking
Speaker 5: for this outrageous production to say we want to seventy
Speaker 5: with ten to fifteen. It's like, man, you can just
Speaker 5: hit the mendoz A line. And that's kind of that's
Speaker 5: kind of crazy saying right now, because before the season
Speaker 5: I want to say, Noah, you might have even said, man,
Speaker 5: if he hit around the Mendoze line, I'd be fine, yep,
Speaker 5: and that's not really like set up a high bar.
Speaker 5: But I think I was talking to somebody and even
Speaker 5: diving too the numbers, which is even more alarming to me,
Speaker 5: which is also goes back to one of the conversations
Speaker 5: we had is I don't think he strikes out a lot,
Speaker 5: and that is so it's like, I mean, it's hard,
Speaker 5: like I get it. Guys go through stretches where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 5: this dude went oh for twenty this dude w Chris
Speaker 5: Davis crush had.
Speaker 4: He had one of the weirdest streaks ever.
Speaker 5: You know, So we're not we're not saying that you
Speaker 5: can't go through these funks, but it seems as if
Speaker 5: through the course of his career it has always been
Speaker 5: underperformance on the offensive side.
Speaker 4: And then no, you made a big point.
Speaker 5: To say that his values kind of lie, you know,
Speaker 5: placed into you know, how he handles the staff and
Speaker 5: what he does, and when that's not going well, what
Speaker 5: value does he have? Right and on a team that
Speaker 5: is already struggling, you know, with health, struggling, defensively, struggling,
Speaker 5: with pitching behind the plate is the more most important
Speaker 5: position on that field.
Speaker 4: I've played that is the most important position behind that field.
Speaker 5: Branded you're gonna have guys that go down and you
Speaker 5: got but you need to have you're speaking of a
Speaker 5: number two. You got to have a good number two,
Speaker 5: and you need to have a good number three and
Speaker 5: number four that just a can pop in and fill
Speaker 5: in because catchers take a beat him. But if you
Speaker 5: don't have continuity behind that plate, that is tough. And
Speaker 5: then if you're not getting much offensive production makes it
Speaker 5: even tougher because it's like, how do you justify, you know,
Speaker 5: having this guy in here, you know, or these guys
Speaker 5: and they're not producing. Like they may be great guys,
Speaker 5: you know, but like at some point you have to produce.
Speaker 5: And as I said, it's not to be asked to
Speaker 5: produce at this All Star level, it's just to be
Speaker 5: produced to say, hey, you're giving something of value. But
Speaker 5: eighteen hits at this point the season, with as many
Speaker 5: at bats as he had, and given his track record,
Speaker 5: I'm not one to doubt anybody because I've played the game.
Speaker 4: I know it can turn.
Speaker 5: But at the same time, at this point you kind
Speaker 5: of are who you are, and at what point do
Speaker 5: they continue to you know, run him out there and
Speaker 5: not give other guys a chance, or as you said that,
Speaker 5: one person said they'd be going after a catcher.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And last episode we were talking about Andie Rodriguez
Speaker 3: stepping up, and I think Andy's a fine backup, you know,
Speaker 3: number two catcher. Yeah, but I don't know if you
Speaker 3: can trust him being your starting catcher right now, right
Speaker 3: so I don't think that's in the options.
Speaker 4: And I don't think so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And just to really quickly touch on too, we
Speaker 3: haven't Joey Bart was traded since we were last recorded,
Speaker 3: and I thought that decision was somewhat intriguing because a
Speaker 3: lot of people were saying, like, is a time to
Speaker 3: send Henry Davis down to Triple A? Is that going
Speaker 3: to solve anything? Do you think like or like Josh said,
Speaker 3: you know, is this just who he is?
Speaker 1: It's always and real quick on Bart.
Speaker 2: I mean one, they're clearing up salary clearly to add
Speaker 2: another bullpen orm.
Speaker 3: And I viewed that he's out.
Speaker 2: Of options, and I mean long term value, like Henry
Speaker 2: is Paul's catcher, so you're not you're not trading him.
Speaker 2: And Andy Rodriguez is playing the best of the three
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: Joey's out of options.
Speaker 2: Joey's just not a good defender, and he's not that
Speaker 2: great of a hitter right now either.
Speaker 1: And they went and they got a right handed reliever
Speaker 1: who they're familiar with and who had a decent year
Speaker 1: with them a couple of seasons ago.
Speaker 2: So I get it, but I do think that, yeah,
Speaker 2: part of that is get I mean, we've been talking
Speaker 2: about getting Joey Bart's money off the books for a
Speaker 2: while now in Pittsburgh, so they finally did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So yeah, I just.
Speaker 2: Want to read off some Henry Davis numbers just to
Speaker 2: kind of contextualize, like how bad it is, because the
Speaker 2: one thirty six batting average, ironically enough, doesn't.
Speaker 1: Even do it justice.
Speaker 2: His on base percentage is two thirty eight. On base
Speaker 2: percentage is two thirty eight. That is like unfathomably bad.
Speaker 2: His career weighted runs created plus is fifty one, so
Speaker 2: his career, he is forty nine percent below league average
Speaker 2: at the plate. This year, his weighted runs created plus
Speaker 2: is forty five, So excuse me, it's fifty one in
Speaker 2: his career, So he's six percent worse than his career
Speaker 2: average as a hitter, which is already forty nine percent
Speaker 2: below league average. So right now, he is producing fifty
Speaker 2: five percent worse at the plate than an average major
Speaker 2: league hitter. Just an average major league hitter, I mean.
Speaker 2: And you can point out the slug Five of his
Speaker 2: eighteen hits are home runs. His slugging is two eighty
Speaker 2: so okay, And now let's look at the defense, right
Speaker 2: because that's his calling card. His blocks above average are
Speaker 2: in the seventh percent title of Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1: Seventh.
Speaker 2: Now you could highlight like he catches some guys who
Speaker 2: have control issues. There's no doubt about that. Like anyone
Speaker 2: who is Johan Ramirez, his catcher is going to have
Speaker 2: a lower blocks above average than they probably should.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to catch.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mason Montgomery is like I said earlier, he's Archimedes Caminaro,
Speaker 2: like like just some guys they just don't know where
Speaker 2: the balls go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like that's tough.
Speaker 2: But he's in the seventh percent tile and blocks above average,
Speaker 2: and this.
Speaker 1: Is supposed to be his thing.
Speaker 2: And now I will give him his flowers, his caught
Speaker 2: stealing above averages in the eighty six percent tile. He's
Speaker 2: very good at throwing runners out. His pop, his pop
Speaker 2: time is one point eighty six second. That is like
Speaker 2: elite pop time. So he's really good at throwing runners out,
Speaker 2: but I don't think teams are like stealing a ton,
Speaker 2: like even attempting when he's not in the game, like
Speaker 2: not like.
Speaker 1: A thing who has a great pickoff move. And then
Speaker 1: his framing is in the fortieth percentile.
Speaker 2: So he's a blow league average framer as well, And
Speaker 2: I know that means a little less now in the ABS.
Speaker 1: Era, but still.
Speaker 2: Especially for a team like the Pirates who doesn't have
Speaker 2: a lot of challenges because they always blow him.
Speaker 1: Like I just.
Speaker 2: I don't see what he's providing, and he has options,
Speaker 2: like you can send him down. He still has two
Speaker 2: minor league options. The thing is, like we've seen that
Speaker 2: before he goes down to Triple A he crushes Triple
Speaker 2: A pitching because there's such a large gap right now
Speaker 2: between major league and Triple A pitching. And I don't
Speaker 2: know what it means to him if you do send
Speaker 2: him down like that could just like shatter his confidence,
Speaker 2: I guess, but it's like what confidence could he possibly
Speaker 2: have right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dude's hitting one thirty six and again, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Seriously, though, this game is a lot of confidence, and
Speaker 5: as you mentioned it, yes it might be looked at bad,
Speaker 5: but it might be just what he need to go down.
Speaker 4: There to get some confidence, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Because as you're saying that, I started laughing because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: you hit one thirty six, Like, I get it.
Speaker 4: You gotta fake the funk. I'm the best hitter on
Speaker 4: the planet. But like, are you really going up there? Like, man, I.
Speaker 5: Hope this is the bat I turned around, but like
Speaker 5: as you said, man, he's got options, it's not uncommon
Speaker 5: to go down there and guess what. Even if you
Speaker 5: go down there and kill it in the game is
Speaker 5: not the same. It's still you experiencing success to say,
Speaker 5: guess what. You know what, I know what this confidence
Speaker 5: feels like, let me take it back up there. Not
Speaker 5: to say that it's gonna translate, it's gonna do the
Speaker 5: same thing, but maybe he need a mental reset. Can't
Speaker 5: hurt see, Like yeah, hey, yes, But I wasn't laughing
Speaker 5: at what you said. No, it was just it was
Speaker 5: just kind of spot on because I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: confidence is a lot of this game at that level,
Speaker 5: and you're right walking up at one thirty six how
Speaker 5: much confidence do you have even if you are faking it, Like,
Speaker 5: at some point, in order to.
Speaker 1: Have confidence, you have to have something to lean on.
Speaker 2: Again, this guy is a career offensive producer forty nine.
Speaker 1: Percent below league average, right, so what is he leaning on?
Speaker 1: That's my thing.
Speaker 2: And when you're seeing schemes, Skeens is fine overall, but
Speaker 2: like Skenes, isn't the schemes that we've seen before, Like
Speaker 2: the pitching staff as a whole, Like, it's very, very
Speaker 2: difficult to find one thing that Henry Davis is doing
Speaker 2: well right now aside from throwing out base Steelers yep,
Speaker 2: and that is such and it every part of the
Speaker 2: game matters. But it feels like he is essentially like
Speaker 2: a guy that you have on your football roster.
Speaker 1: Who's only on the punt team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like all right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's what this is. But even the long
Speaker 2: snapper provides more value than this right now. So I
Speaker 2: just don't I don't know, man, I don't know what
Speaker 2: you do with him. It feels like optioning him isn't
Speaker 2: going to solve anything, because I mean, is Roe Floraz
Speaker 2: any better?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 2: I mean it might be worth it, but like he's
Speaker 2: certainly not better defensively, So I don't know, and I.
Speaker 5: Don't competition because I mean not necessarily competition, But I
Speaker 5: mean at some point you, I mean, it's hard to
Speaker 5: justify sending somebody up there at one thirty six.
Speaker 4: That's just being honest.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I don't, especially if you with all the
Speaker 5: numbers you've pointed out. But obviously there are some intangibles,
Speaker 5: probably behind the scenes too, But like, at some point,
Speaker 5: you still this is a game that you have to produce,
Speaker 5: and if he's not producing, send him down a triple
Speaker 5: A with options. Let him get himself together and bring
Speaker 5: him back when the time is right. And if that
Speaker 5: time ain't right, then I mean time is to move on.
Speaker 5: But I mean, if you got an opportunity, you're really
Speaker 5: serious about putting your best team forward and trying to
Speaker 5: you have to make these necessary decisions, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's might, but hey, if this is going to
Speaker 4: make your team.
Speaker 5: Better, Hey, Paul is throwing bullpen, he warms up with
Speaker 5: a different he warms up with the bullpen catcher.
Speaker 4: He's throwing the different catchers.
Speaker 3: Henry Jas said, could throw to a net and still
Speaker 3: just absolutely shove so bad marketing on his end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, But the other part of it too, before
Speaker 2: we wrap this up, is something that I've kind of noticed,
Speaker 2: and I might do a story on this, like later
Speaker 2: in the week.
Speaker 1: It always feels like Paul Skeens gets like.
Speaker 2: The worst lineup of the week when he's pitching, because
Speaker 2: and they did this to him last year.
Speaker 1: It's under the assumption of, like, all right, well, Paul's
Speaker 1: only going to allow one or two runs, so let's
Speaker 1: just play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's give this is a day off day for
Speaker 2: guys like Brandon Lao or Ryan O'Hearn. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that that's exactly how it goes because I don't
Speaker 2: have numbers in front of me, but like it does
Speaker 2: feel like you see a little bit more of the
Speaker 2: bench guys playing when Paul's pitching already, and then you
Speaker 2: combine that with the fact that his personal catcher can't hit.
Speaker 1: He can't even hit half his weight.
Speaker 2: I mean, what do we He's not half his weight,
Speaker 2: he's like two hundred and twenty pounds, but like still,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's just unacceptable, man, just unaccepted.
Speaker 4: Than overall not good defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, you're handicapping your team.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: As much as we have rained down on Ozuna for
Speaker 2: hurting this team in all areas, I think it was
Speaker 2: overdue that we have this talk about Henry Davis and
Speaker 2: the catcher position as a whole.
Speaker 1: Right now, they have, like.
Speaker 2: I said, I think we said in spring training, it
Speaker 2: feels like they have four number two catchers.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if they have that money now,
Speaker 2: so definitely don't because they traded Joey away. Anyway, we're
Speaker 2: gonna take a quick break when we come back. We'll
Speaker 2: conclude this episode with Mark's Platinum Key of the Week.
Speaker 3: Baseball Fans, the MLB season is in full swing and
Speaker 3: fangiel is giving you a chance to call your shot
Speaker 3: with daily dingers. Joining the action is easy. Just make
Speaker 3: your free pick on who's sitting a home running their game,
Speaker 3: and if you're right, you'll get a profit boost to
Speaker 3: use on your next bet for a chance at X
Speaker 3: for winnings. It's just another reason why FanDuel is the
Speaker 3: home of home runs. So, Josha, who you have hitting
Speaker 3: a home run this week?
Speaker 4: Man? I'm going back with my boy b right, I
Speaker 4: gotta go.
Speaker 3: With another one on Sunday June Brian Reynolds. I said
Speaker 3: it last time, just a completely different hitter. He's unstoppable
Speaker 3: right now. I love it. What about you? Noah, who
Speaker 3: you got?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Henry Davis.
Speaker 3: I love it. I mean we just said, hey, five
Speaker 3: of those eighteen hits have been home runs, so you know,
Speaker 3: why not about six? Yeah? Why not six? Yeah? Make
Speaker 3: a good nineteenth hit, yeah, and I'll finish it off.
Speaker 3: Another guy. We just mentioned Andy Roger. You guys has
Speaker 3: and you hit. Yeah, he's got a home run this year,
Speaker 3: but he's got a couple. Yeah, so hey, I love Andy.
Speaker 3: He's been making really good contacts. So see him put
Speaker 3: one over the defences there. All right? So are you
Speaker 3: ready to play your game? Head on over to FanDuel
Speaker 3: dot com Slash podcast to get started. That's FanDuel dot
Speaker 3: com podcast. To opt in for daily dingers and make
Speaker 3: your free pick on who's hitting a homer, playball and
Speaker 3: swing for the fences on fanuel, an official partner of
Speaker 3: Major League Baseball.
Speaker 8: No purchase necessary, opt in required, bonus issue, does non
Speaker 8: withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration
Speaker 8: and max wager amount see terms at sportsbook dot FanDuel
Speaker 8: dot com. Gambling problem caller tax one eight hundred gambler.
Speaker 3: All right, now my key of the week. All right,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna laugh at that every time, but yeah, yeah, yes, hey,
Speaker 3: you know it's the key of the week. It needs
Speaker 3: all the graphics and introduction it could possibly have. So
Speaker 3: this week's Key of the week, I wanted to highlight
Speaker 3: Evan Sisk. This bullpen has been and not great, and
Speaker 3: Evan Sisk has been the one bright spot, albeit in
Speaker 3: low leverage situations. But he has a one point eight
Speaker 3: five ERA this year just really adds something different to
Speaker 3: this bullpen with his arm slot, his extension, the angle
Speaker 3: that he throws from it, it's just funky and it
Speaker 3: throws guys off. On Sunday, we saw the Rockies strike
Speaker 3: out three times against him. Uh one of the Rockies
Speaker 3: batters swung and miss on the pitch that hit him
Speaker 3: on his inside foot. Just stuff that you don't really see.
Speaker 3: I mean, he only throws ninety one miles per hour,
Speaker 3: so his fastball velocity is seventh percentile in MLB, but
Speaker 3: his ex ERA this year is expected ERA ninety six
Speaker 3: percentile expected bat average ninety seven percentile ninety k eight.
Speaker 3: So I just wanted to give Evan Ciske a little
Speaker 3: shine because this bull and has been so so bad
Speaker 3: that it's been easy to kind of overlook the one
Speaker 3: bright spot. Uh So my key of the week with
Speaker 3: the Jerry Jones injury, now might I don't know the
Speaker 3: impact on that. He's initial test came back clear, so
Speaker 3: who knows if he'll have to it's a starter or
Speaker 3: not goes long next time. So if this bullfin has
Speaker 3: to step up, at least we know that Evan Sisk
Speaker 3: is someone that they can rely on. I'll be in
Speaker 3: a low leverage situation. So that was my key of
Speaker 3: the week. This week.
Speaker 2: We're debating if this team should buy at that deadline,
Speaker 2: and we're highlighting Evan Sisk.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, sure, yeah, Hey he's been good, that's been good.
Speaker 5: Numbers just threw out even though they're low leverage. It
Speaker 5: might be a situation where hey, hey, what do you
Speaker 5: have to lose? Yeah, and just to back up some
Speaker 5: of those numbers, I'm just saying, honestly, what do you
Speaker 5: have to lose? Especially with the way the wolf has
Speaker 5: been thrown and you know, watching a couple of his outings. Man,
Speaker 5: he's got a little funky little cross delivery that that's
Speaker 5: got a little bit of deception. And I think that's
Speaker 5: where you know, you mentioned in his velocity was like
Speaker 5: ninety ninety one, you know, tops, which is like seven percentile.
Speaker 5: The name of the game is to get out. And
Speaker 5: if you can pitch and you can locate, and you
Speaker 5: got some deception, and you know, and you mentioned in
Speaker 5: those low leverage situations, you know he's coming in situations
Speaker 5: where he can just pitch, and you know, sometimes guys
Speaker 5: can work them themselves into you know, mid leverage to
Speaker 5: high leverage, especially in a struggling bullpen. And then as
Speaker 5: I said, I watched a couple outs, he's got a
Speaker 5: little bit of funk and stuff to him to where, hey,
Speaker 5: that little bit of deception is just enough because one
Speaker 5: he's lefty, you don't see enough of him. In two
Speaker 5: he's got a little bit of a crossfire with a
Speaker 5: little funky angle. So you know, hearing those numbers are
Speaker 5: definitely encouraging. But obviously we know where the bullpen and
Speaker 5: stuff is. Why not give this guy a chance. I
Speaker 5: ain't saying to run him out there in the eighth
Speaker 5: or ninth inning.
Speaker 4: But you got my situation. If you got a situation that.
Speaker 3: Like going high leverage with him.
Speaker 5: Nah, I mean I mean maybe a situation where like
Speaker 5: because low leverage obviously you might need to bring him
Speaker 5: in a situation where hey we need a groundball double play,
Speaker 5: you have a funky delivery. It might be right he's
Speaker 5: coming up, but hey, your angle might get this double play.
Speaker 5: You can't just save them for the you know, seven
Speaker 5: run deficit or seven run lead, like at some point
Speaker 5: if he's having this success, he's getting big league hitters out.
Speaker 4: I don't care what the situation is. Give him a chance.
Speaker 5: And as I said that ain't saying throw him in
Speaker 5: the eighth or ninth inning, but give him a You
Speaker 5: come in in the middle of a jam, and we
Speaker 5: need you to, you know, get this this third out
Speaker 5: right now with you know, second and third two outs
Speaker 5: might be Hey, what you got to lose?
Speaker 3: Ye kind of yeah, And yeah, you got injuries.
Speaker 1: So I mean I'm looking, I get where you at.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: No, I just I mean, I don't want to sound
Speaker 2: like I think Evan Sisk stinks.
Speaker 1: I just think Evan Sisk is a bullpen version of
Speaker 1: Bailey Falter. Like that's what. Yeah, and it's just like yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: They already have a left handed, high leverage arm too,
Speaker 2: Like that's I'm gonna give those outings to soda. And now,
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to flop rolls with him
Speaker 2: in Montgomery, I'm fine with it. I mean, I'm looking
Speaker 2: at some of the under the hood stuff. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: he reminds me a lot of Bailey Falter in the center.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's a lot of fastball.
Speaker 2: It's low v low, but he's in the ninetieth percentile
Speaker 2: of extension, and the Pirates gets a lot of out
Speaker 2: of those guys.
Speaker 1: The like it's same thing for Isaac Mattson.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of fastball but good extension, and you
Speaker 2: could throw it slower, but if it seems like you're
Speaker 2: throwing it halfway down the mound, then it's harder to
Speaker 2: hit right.
Speaker 1: So I get that.
Speaker 2: I'm looking now, like we talked about him facing Righty's
Speaker 2: I mean, he throws his curveball thirty seven against right
Speaker 2: handed pitching. His curveball is his best pitch as far
Speaker 2: as run value. I think it's a three, which is
Speaker 2: pretty good. So yeah, I mean he's got a three
Speaker 2: run value on the the change up is Yeah, he
Speaker 2: throws the change up. It's like a league average pitch
Speaker 2: against righty's. He's yeah, righty's, he's he's using the change
Speaker 2: up eighteen percent. So yeah, he's laying off.
Speaker 4: That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 2: That's what yeah, I mean, it seems like under the hood,
Speaker 2: he could be a decent option. It's just kind of like, again,
Speaker 2: real teams aren't considering a player like this for such
Speaker 2: a high leverge, like he belongs in the major league bullpen.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that, but it's like, if you want
Speaker 2: to be serious, it needs to be someone bigger than
Speaker 2: Evyansisk right now, that's just because if he fails, then
Speaker 2: what right, because guy, he's that old role. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: you put him back in his old role, and who knows.
Speaker 2: Like we talk about confidence, this.
Speaker 1: Guy like some of his.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, you throw him out there and he blows
Speaker 2: two saves in the same week and he's getting booed
Speaker 2: by the home team fans. Now he's not comfortable pitching
Speaker 2: in any situation. So like I get it, like you got.
Speaker 1: To throw who you gotta throw, But like.
Speaker 2: We've seen what happened like they tried that with Wilverdo
Speaker 2: tell like they they try to push these guys into
Speaker 2: situations they're not ready for and they're just not ready
Speaker 2: for that. So I would hate to see that happen
Speaker 2: Evan six too, but they'll probably do it because they
Speaker 2: don't have another choice.
Speaker 1: Guys, any final thoughts before we wrap.
Speaker 3: It up, Josh, anything for you?
Speaker 4: Uh you want me to start? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Final thoughts is, uh, they got out of their three
Speaker 5: three over over the you know road trip, which isn't
Speaker 5: bad against winnable teams, but uh, you know, come home
Speaker 5: and get started on the right foot. But for those
Speaker 5: that are watching this, be sure to tune in Monday
Speaker 5: for a special episode the Foul Territory where.
Speaker 4: I will be co hosting.
Speaker 5: So as this episode is airing, I will also be airing,
Speaker 5: you know with the Foul Territory Network one of three
Speaker 5: tomorrow or today, as I should say to mother shows.
Speaker 5: So that's one of my final thoughts. What about you guys.
Speaker 3: Just staying busy in retirement? Hi, Josh, can't keep this
Speaker 3: guy off to the air. I love it. I just
Speaker 3: want to remind everyone if you've stuck around after thirty
Speaker 3: plus minutes here to make sure you hit that subscribe button.
Speaker 3: We're trying to get to three thousand subs halfway there,
Speaker 3: and appreciate the support along the way. Also, make sure
Speaker 3: to check out the Bucket Territory merch Store. Some high
Speaker 3: quality stuff stitched like quarters up really nice. Make sure
Speaker 3: you're showing up to P and C Park looking fresh
Speaker 3: in all of that, and appreciate the support.
Speaker 2: My final thought is happy belated Father's Day to all
Speaker 2: the fathers who are watching this who have impacted our lives,
Speaker 2: especially my dad.
Speaker 1: Shout out to you.
Speaker 2: I know you're watching the show while you're having your
Speaker 2: breakfast before you head to work, so thank.
Speaker 1: You for watching and supporting me as always. And yeah,
Speaker 1: just happy Father's Day to everyone.
Speaker 2: A good dad can do a lot of the world,
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, I had a really good one,
Speaker 2: so shout out to him, and shout out to all
Speaker 2: the good dads out there.
Speaker 4: So yeah, happy Father's Day at all father's out there.
Speaker 4: My dad, Big Evince, appreciate you and I had to
Speaker 4: follow you up on that.
Speaker 5: No, appreciate you reminding everybody.
Speaker 3: Today, so he's not going to be listening, so thanks dad.
Speaker 3: He's on the l yeah. Yeah, he's on the I
Speaker 3: L for Bucket Territory listening chip right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, speed of recovery.
Speaker 1: We came out and get him back, all right. For
Speaker 1: Platinum Key and Josh Harrison.
Speaker 2: I'm the Ohio signing off saying thanks for tuning in
Speaker 2: to another episode of Bucco Territory, presented to you by
Speaker 2: the Foul Territory Network.
Speaker 1: Take care,