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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The wife of a beloved

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Speaker 1: doctor faces death at a sheer cliff's edge on a

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Speaker 1: romantic getaway planned by hobby. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: The wife of a beloved doctor faces death at a

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Speaker 1: sheer cliff's edge.

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Speaker 2: This was a planned, meticulously planned attack.

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Speaker 3: There is a struggle. She's grabbed by the hair and

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Speaker 3: pushes her face into the ground. She's bleeding.

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Speaker 4: The hikers that notified police saw lots of blood.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I'm I'm currently beating attack on helping poly Cookah

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Speaker 5: where there's a man trying to kill her.

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Speaker 6: She's let all over her face. Where is his dad?

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Speaker 6: Polly Puka the look out? Okay, so.

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Speaker 7: Look out.

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Speaker 5: She's on the Polypooka hike and he's currently attacking her.

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Speaker 6: Okay, Where how far is the hike guards the entrance tire,

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Speaker 6: We're probably like into the hike and.

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Speaker 1: Really quickly imagine moments before you go over the edge,

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Speaker 1: you look down and then look back up at the

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Speaker 1: guy attacking you, brutally beating you in the face. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is a female being held down, beaten in the face,

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Speaker 1: pushed toward a cliff edge. Who is the attacker? Not

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Speaker 1: some thug, It's your own husband, and through your mind

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Speaker 1: you think about your children and you look up and think,

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Speaker 1: is this the last face I'm ever going to see

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Speaker 1: that face? That face? What more do we learn from

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Speaker 1: the nine to one one call from desperate hikers that

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Speaker 1: see the attack?

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Speaker 6: Okay, what are you seeing?

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Speaker 5: We heard her streaming help help me, help me?

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Speaker 6: And then we saw that over her and then she crawled.

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Speaker 5: Out with over her face, say, trying to kill her?

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Speaker 6: And did she know him?

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Speaker 7: Okay?

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Speaker 6: Wearing Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What is he wearing?

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Speaker 5: The tea shirt? White?

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Speaker 6: She has brownish sort of curly hair, Asian Coucasian Hawaiian

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Speaker 6: white side white guy. Yeah. And then what kind of shirt?

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Speaker 6: T shirt?

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Speaker 5: Maybe only my shorts?

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Speaker 6: Pardon what kind of shorts? I didn't see you wearing

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Speaker 6: shorts though?

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Speaker 1: What kind of shorts? What T shirt? The woman is

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Speaker 1: getting her brain bashed out. I'm having a hard time

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Speaker 1: with understanding what's happening right there. Straight out to Troy Slaighton,

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Speaker 1: joining US veteran criminal defense attorney out of the LA

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction at Slayton, Lawyer's candidate for LA Superior court judge Troy,

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Speaker 1: what is wrong with this? Nine one one operator Ariel

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Speaker 1: is getting her brain beaten in and she's saying, white

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Speaker 1: guy Asian? What what is wrong with her?

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Speaker 8: Nancy?

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Speaker 9: Nine one one operators go through the same training for

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Speaker 9: every type of call. They're trained to remain calm and

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Speaker 9: gather as many facts as necessary and to keep the

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Speaker 9: callers on the phone so that way when emergency services arrive,

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Speaker 9: they know exactly who the good guy is, who the

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Speaker 9: bad guy is, and if the person has fled the scene,

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Speaker 9: who they're looking for when they put out an APB

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Speaker 9: and they're looking throughout and canvassing the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Veteran defense durning Troy Slayton just admitted to me that

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Speaker 1: that's the bad guy. Let's say, when he's going to

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Speaker 1: flip that around. I want to hear what more we

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Speaker 1: have at than nine one one called to see what

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Speaker 1: we can learn.

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Speaker 6: Okay, and any you walk away from her, we sort

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Speaker 6: of you know, he was not we were still We

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Speaker 6: walked away because we didn't want him to talk about Okay,

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Speaker 6: so he's still there. Yeah, they were both hiking and

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Speaker 6: the now was she's Caucasian? What is she wearing.

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Speaker 5: It was hard to say.

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Speaker 6: She's covered in blood and she was crawling.

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Speaker 5: Okay, and then so she's five and that is here

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Speaker 5: and that is oh. The girl is here. She's wearing

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Speaker 5: she's wearing her purple ting top.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, I've got another problem,

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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall. That's amongst so many renowned psychoanalyst, author

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Speaker 1: of deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock

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Speaker 1: and Bravo, and you can find her at doctor Bethany

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Speaker 1: Marshall dot com. Dr Bethany, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: The woman is getting her brain smashed out. She's down,

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Speaker 1: the husband is on top of her with a rock,

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Speaker 1: and they say we walked way. Don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy. I'm happy that they call nine to

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Speaker 1: one one. A lot of people would have just kept going.

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Speaker 1: But how do you walk away when somebody's getting their

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Speaker 1: brain bashed in?

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Speaker 4: You're in Nancy. I have reviewed this scene in my

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Speaker 4: mind so many times. You have a man with a rock,

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Speaker 4: you have a woman underneath him, her face being bashed in, bloodied,

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Speaker 4: and you have two females against this one man. And

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden this scene is coming into focus,

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Speaker 4: as in the scene of shock, of trauma, of horror,

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Speaker 4: that somebody is allegedly trying to kill somebody, and are

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Speaker 4: you going to way into the fray? Are you going

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Speaker 4: to call nine to one one? I have a hard

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Speaker 4: time believing these women were walking away, as in leaving

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Speaker 4: the scene, but perhaps walking away thinking that if they

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Speaker 4: call the police there will be a force larger than

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Speaker 4: them that Nancy. They must have gone through so many

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Speaker 4: split second decisions. Do we attack him, will he attack us?

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Speaker 4: Will he pushes over the cliff? Nancy, this was a

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Speaker 4: very dangerous hiking trail. One very important note is that

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Speaker 4: every hiker who went up that trail walked past a

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Speaker 4: sign that said something to the effect of do not

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Speaker 4: hike this trail. It is dangerous. So you have already

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Speaker 4: people who are people who are already in a dangerous situation.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, you have people who are brave

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Speaker 4: and willing to face the elements. And it's going to

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Speaker 4: be interesting in court to see how all of that

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Speaker 4: plays into all these split second decisions they had to make.

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Speaker 1: Well, doctor Bethany, I know you're right, and people respond

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Speaker 1: differently when they're faced with an illogical or dangerous situation.

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Speaker 1: My son and I are prone to run into it,

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Speaker 1: which is probably not always the best idea. My daughter

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Speaker 1: wants to run into it, but she freezes. She completely freezes,

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Speaker 1: like she's made of stuffe and that can be very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: In this scenario, these hikers see Ariel literally getting her

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Speaker 1: head bashed in. She's trying to crawl away. The husband

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Speaker 1: is trying to push her over the cliff. Bill Hernandez

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Speaker 1: joining US Domestic Violence Sex Assault Detective NAPA. Bill, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. How does it go from

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Speaker 1: beating your wife emotionally or verbally abusing her to try

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Speaker 1: to killing her? How do you make that leap? How

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Speaker 1: do you take that extra step? Because typically homicide is

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Speaker 1: not part of abuse. But what tips the scale.

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Speaker 2: Just anger, just unmitigated rage about a situation that he's

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Speaker 2: in or that they're in at that point in time.

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Speaker 2: But to me, this seemed like a planned event. I mean,

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Speaker 2: to plan that hike, and not at that on that island,

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Speaker 2: at that steep ray taking her up there, especially after

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Speaker 2: the alleged affair and everything else going on in their lives.

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Speaker 2: I think he planned that and it was not just

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Speaker 2: a happenstance argument that happened at the top of that ridge.

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Speaker 1: At this juncture, to Alexis Tereschuk joining US Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, the case has progressed. This is going to

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Speaker 1: a jury. What did the prosecution say in opening statement?

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Speaker 10: They said that he attempted to kill her. They said

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Speaker 10: that he had a rock he was bashing her head,

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Speaker 10: and they also said that Ariel the wife, that she

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Speaker 10: had seen him have a syringe with something in it,

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Speaker 10: that she was afraid. She was fighting for her life

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Speaker 10: and trying to get away from this syringe because she

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Speaker 10: felt like he was going to stop and inject her

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Speaker 10: with something they could kill her.

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Speaker 1: Alexis syringe, a syringe prepared that This is like out

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Speaker 1: of an Alex Bearnson book, The Power Couple, Right, So

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Speaker 1: this isn't Oh, I hope you're listening, Choye Slayton. If

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Speaker 1: what the prosecution is saying is correct, this is not

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Speaker 1: an angry moment where he grabs a rock, because it

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Speaker 1: kind of sounds like spur of the moment, which could

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Speaker 1: get it reduced down to voluntary manslaughter. But the fact

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Speaker 1: that there was a syringe, a pre prepared syringe tell

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Speaker 1: me about that.

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Speaker 10: So he is an anesthesiologist, and she says that as

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Speaker 10: he was attacking her, holding her on the ground, that

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Speaker 10: she saw him with a syringe in his hand and

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Speaker 10: that he was trying to stabber with it, and that

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Speaker 10: was what she was Another thing she was fighting not

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Speaker 10: only the rock, but she was afraid of the syringe

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Speaker 10: that he was going to stabber. And as a nanstesiologist,

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Speaker 10: one would have to think that he would have access

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Speaker 10: to quite a few drugs that could be lethal.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Troy Slayton, there goes your argument that this was

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Speaker 1: a spur of the moment, angry outburst and he just

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Speaker 1: hit her in the head with the rock. No harm,

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Speaker 1: no foul, according to a defense attorney. But the fact

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Speaker 1: that a syringe, according to Ariel, was used, a prepared syringe,

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Speaker 1: that changes everything, Slaton.

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Speaker 9: It would if a syringe was actually found at the scene. However,

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Speaker 9: police did an exhaustive search of the entire area and

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Speaker 9: guess what, no syringe showed up. But if you knew

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Speaker 9: that the person that you wanted to accuse of killing

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Speaker 9: you was an anesthesiologist, my brother is an anesthesiologist. Actually

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Speaker 9: in the Hawaii jurisdiction, I asked him about this particular doctor,

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Speaker 9: and he said he had a good reputation. But that aside,

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Speaker 9: if you wanted to make.

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Speaker 8: The story down.

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Speaker 1: Wait, okay, you know what, stop everything. Case closed because

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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton knows somebody that says the doctor had a

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Speaker 1: good reputation. Okay, Well, he couldn't possibly have beaten his

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Speaker 1: wife in the head with a rock as she tried

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Speaker 1: to crawl away from the cliffs age. Did you actually

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Speaker 1: just say that he's got a good reputation because your

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Speaker 1: brother said so? Somebody told your brother what in the

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Speaker 1: checkout line at the Piggly Wiggly. What you think I

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Speaker 1: care about what somebody may have said to your brother,

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Speaker 1: he's got a good reputation.

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Speaker 9: My brother is an anesthesiologist in the Hawaii jurisdiction.

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Speaker 8: It's a very small community.

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Speaker 9: They're not brimming with anesthesiologists on the small islands of Hawaii.

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Speaker 8: But I can tell you that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe have to go hide out in Hawaii to get

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Speaker 1: a job.

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Speaker 8: Well, it's it's paradise, Nancy.

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Speaker 9: The witnesses who called nine to one one did not

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Speaker 9: see what happened just before he was on top of

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Speaker 9: his wife, and his defense attorneys are arguing that she

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Speaker 9: attacked him. I'm sorry talking, he felt himself being pushed off.

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Speaker 1: They didn't see what happened before he was on top

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Speaker 1: of his wife beating her with a rock. Okay, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to stop interrupting. Troy Slayton. Take it from

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Speaker 1: the top. I want to hear the whole thing.

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Speaker 8: Go ahead, Nancy.

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Speaker 9: His defense attorneys are arguing, look, I wasn't there.

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Speaker 8: You weren't there.

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Speaker 9: But his defense attorneys are arguing to this jury that

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Speaker 9: he was actually the one that was attacked, that he

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Speaker 9: was being pushed off the trail, that she had a

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Speaker 9: rock in her hand and sold he picked up a

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Speaker 9: rock and tried to defend himself and that's when the

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Speaker 9: witnesses came onto the scene. So he was just acting

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Speaker 9: in self defense.

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Speaker 8: That's his defense, okay.

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Speaker 3: Two.

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Speaker 1: Renowned medical examiner doctor Kendall Crowns. He is the chief

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Speaker 1: medical Examiner Terren County. That's Fort Worth never a lack

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Speaker 1: of business. He is the star of a hit podcast,

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Speaker 1: May Him in the More, and he is an estainmed

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Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns what were arials injuries.

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Speaker 11: From the reports, she had multiple lacerations of her face

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Speaker 11: with blood streaming down her head. So when you pick

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Speaker 11: up a rock, a rock causes blunt force injuries because

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Speaker 11: it really doesn't necessarily have a sharp edge, and when

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Speaker 11: you're striking into the skin, it splits the skin, creating

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Speaker 11: a laceration. Now, the scalp skin is actually very vascular.

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Speaker 11: It has a lot of blood vessels, so you'll see

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Speaker 11: a lot of blood associated with that as well. And

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Speaker 11: if he had kept pounding into the same area with

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Speaker 11: the rock, he probably would have eventually crushed her skull

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Speaker 11: and then damaged her brain.

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Speaker 1: When you say eventually would have crushed her skull, how

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Speaker 1: much velocity does it take to crush a human skull?

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Speaker 1: Do you say crush do you mean crack it or

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Speaker 1: crush it like breaking an egg.

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Speaker 11: So the skull itself, depending on where you're striking it.

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Speaker 11: Frontal bone is very thick, occipital bone, which is the

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Speaker 11: back of the head, is very thick as well, but

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Speaker 11: the temporal paridal areas on the side of the head

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Speaker 11: are thinner. So it all depends on where you're hitting

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Speaker 11: the skull with the rock. But if you're hitting it

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Speaker 11: over and over and over in the same spot, you'll

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Speaker 11: eventually kind of start crushing that bone, wearing it down,

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Speaker 11: and then eventually breaking it. The exact velocity or the

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Speaker 11: pounds of pressure needed to break the skull is actually

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Speaker 11: several hundred pounds of pressure, So you have to hit

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Speaker 11: in the proper area, basically side ahead, and then with

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Speaker 11: the physical strength of an arm and a rock, you

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Speaker 11: might be able to break through it. But again, it

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Speaker 11: isn't an easy process, and you'd have to do it

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Speaker 11: repetitively in the same area to eventually wear it down

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Speaker 11: and break through it.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy grace Well choicely is a veteran

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Speaker 1: in defense attorney, and he's got one thing right. This

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Speaker 1: Hawaii doctor who bashed his wife head in with a

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Speaker 1: rock claims it was self defense. But wait for it

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Speaker 1: self defense over her alleged affair. Now wait, you can't

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Speaker 1: have it both ways. Sidney Sumner joining me. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Sidney in self defense under the law, that

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Speaker 1: means the victim, which should be ariel, attacks you first,

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Speaker 1: then you respond with just enough force to subdue the attacker.

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Speaker 1: The attacker in that scenario would be aerial but if

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Speaker 1: he is enraged over her alleged sex affair, then suddenly

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Speaker 1: it's not self sense anymore. It's revenged. So he cannot

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Speaker 1: have his cake on his plate and eat it too.

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Speaker 1: But it sounds like they're claiming both Sydney Sumner.

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Speaker 12: Yes, I don't think a jury and this situation is

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Speaker 12: going to believe for one second that this husband was

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Speaker 12: only acting in self defense.

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Speaker 3: The story goes. The defensive story goes.

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Speaker 13: They were hiking this beautiful trail, and despite spending this

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Speaker 13: time together over this weekend trying to rekindle their relationship,

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Speaker 13: Ariel brought.

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Speaker 3: Up that she was going to have to see her

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Speaker 3: affair partner, a married man, at work, when they return

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Speaker 3: from this trip. At that point, Koenig threatened to expose

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Speaker 3: this affair to all of her family and friends, making

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Speaker 3: Ariel angry. That's when Ariel tried to push him off

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Speaker 3: the cliff then hit him in the face with the rock.

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Speaker 3: So Koenig says, he responds by pushing Ariel to the

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Speaker 3: ground and hitting her in the face with the rock twice.

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Speaker 3: So again, I mean twice versus once. These syringes have

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Speaker 3: not been found, but neither has Ariel's belongings that she

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Speaker 3: brought with her on the trail. So we have one

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Speaker 3: trail and two very different stories, and these defense attorneys

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Speaker 3: are trying to convince the jury that Koenik acted correctly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this, Sidney Sumner, who was

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Speaker 1: trying to crawl away from the cliff's edge when the

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Speaker 1: hikers appeared. Ariel, Oh, okay, So she was the one

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Speaker 1: being dragged to the cliff's edge, not him. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: That's what the hiker saw, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And also Sidney Sumner. What were his injuries?

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Speaker 3: We saw photos in court of some bruising on the

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Speaker 3: left side of doctor Koenig's face.

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Speaker 1: Did he get admitted to the hospital?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Did she get admitted in the hospital.

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Speaker 3: Of course she did. Ariel spent time in the hospital. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Do you know any more about her injuries?

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Speaker 3: I know. The defense is arguing that Conig clearly didn't

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Speaker 3: intend to kill her because she just had this headlock

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Speaker 3: that bled a lot. It looked really bad. But the

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Speaker 3: mom didn't experience any kind of brain injury. She did

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Speaker 3: not have a concussion. There was no further injury.

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Speaker 1: That's what the defense is saying, correct, Sidney have you

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Speaker 1: ever seen the Wizard of Oz or read it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you recall when the Wizard such as he

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Speaker 1: is said, don't look behind the curtain, look up there

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Speaker 1: at the man the image, look there, don't look here.

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Speaker 1: So they're saying, don't look at all the blood streaming

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Speaker 1: down her face, don't look at her skull being cracked,

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Speaker 1: don't look at any of that. Look at what I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you, and I'm telling you she did not suffer

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Speaker 1: a serious injury. Is that what's happening? Exactly?

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Speaker 3: What's happening?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Almon, last question too, Alexis Tereshchuk joining US Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. Isn't it true that Dr Koenig fled

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Speaker 1: the scene and hid out in the woods all Eric Rudolph,

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Speaker 1: the Olympic bomber until idiot then came out of the

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Speaker 1: woods and got busted by the cops. Isn't that true?

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Speaker 10: Yes, that is true, one hundred percent. He because these

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Speaker 10: two women came upon them and they found him on

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Speaker 10: top of his wife hitting them. These two women. He

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Speaker 10: wasn't stopping. She was screaming, screaming, He wasn't stopping. And

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Speaker 10: if it wasn't for these two hikers who heard her screaming.

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Speaker 10: They came up, but they said they were so afraid

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Speaker 10: of him. He looked so scary that they backed off,

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Speaker 10: and they obviously very quickly called nine one one, But

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Speaker 10: they were afraid of him. They said that he was

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Speaker 10: very scary, looking, very intimidating. He had a dark, cold

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Speaker 10: look in his eyes, and they were afraid for their

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Speaker 10: own safety, so they backed off. That's after That's when

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Speaker 10: he was able to run away for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: Alexis Trescheck. I'm glad you told me that, because I

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Speaker 1: was wondering, how can you leave when you see a

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Speaker 1: woman getting killed? Just walk away? I didn't understand that,

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Speaker 1: but they were afraid for their own lives, and frankly,

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Speaker 1: I don't blame them. Straight back to Troy Slayton, Troy

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Speaker 1: is a veteran trial lawyer, and you're about to learn

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Speaker 1: why he wins so many cases. I predict he's not

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Speaker 1: going to ask answer the question I'm going to ask him.

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Speaker 1: But Troy Slayton, isn't it true that under the law,

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Speaker 1: the force you use and self defense is extremely relative

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Speaker 1: relevant to using the defense of self defense? In other words,

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Speaker 1: if I come slap you. You cannot then pull out

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Speaker 1: an oozy and shoot me. Do you agree with that?

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Speaker 8: I agree with that.

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Speaker 9: If you're going to use deadly force, you have to

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Speaker 9: believe that you were an imminent danger for your life.

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Speaker 9: So you had to have a reasonable fear of imminent

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Speaker 9: bodily harm or death him.

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Speaker 5: So I'm currently beating attacked on helping Polypuka where there's

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Speaker 5: a man trying to kill her, to pull it all

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Speaker 5: over her face?

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Speaker 6: Where is his dad? Polly Pucha the hikes?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so.

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Speaker 6: Look out, she's on the Polly Pooka hike and he's

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Speaker 6: he's currently attacking her. Okay, where how far is the hike?

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Speaker 6: Guards the entrance wire? We're probably like five minutes into

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Speaker 6: the hike, and really quickly, okay.

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Speaker 5: What are you seeing?

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Speaker 7: We heard her.

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Speaker 6: And then we talked that over her, and then she

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Speaker 6: crawled out over her face saying that I'm trying to

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Speaker 6: kill her and did she know him?

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine the terror that must have coursed through

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Speaker 1: her body looking down at that great height on a

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Speaker 1: very narrow trail. After a brutal beating with a rock

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Speaker 1: to her skull, she fought back.

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Speaker 3: She refused to be pushed off this cliff, and that's

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Speaker 3: why people cannot believe that this happens.

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Speaker 14: Gearhart Koenig takes off into the woods, covered in blood

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Speaker 14: from the brutal attack on his wife. Koenig facetimes his

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Speaker 14: adult son, Emil, who is shocked and concerned from his

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Speaker 14: father's appearance. Koenig tries to explain what happened, but stops

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Speaker 14: mid sentence and says, I just tried to kill ari

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Speaker 14: but she got away. Koenig also tells Emil he wants

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Speaker 14: to jump off the cliffs and kill himself.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Alexis Terestjuk, joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: did I just hear he fled into the woods and

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Speaker 1: called his son and said I just tried to kill Ariel.

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Speaker 1: Please tell me that very slowly. Are you listening, Slayton.

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Speaker 3: It's very true.

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Speaker 10: He fled, he called his son, and he literally said,

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Speaker 10: I just tried to kill mommy. He was away for

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Speaker 10: quite a while. These women that had found them, they

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Speaker 10: were actually, as you heard them say, they were like,

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Speaker 10: oh my gosh, she's coming this way, like they were

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Speaker 10: very scared. But he went into the woods. And this

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Speaker 10: is a tropical jungle, as Troy and his brother know.

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Speaker 10: This isn't a wooded area like the south or the

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Speaker 10: East coast. You do it, this beautiful, luscious tropical area.

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Speaker 10: And he fled into there and hid out for quite

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Speaker 10: a while, but he still had self service and he

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Speaker 10: was able to make this call from there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand, alexis is it true or has

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Speaker 1: it come out yet that he positioned his wife at

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Speaker 1: the cliff's edge to do a selfie.

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Speaker 10: I believe that that is what has been alleged, but

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Speaker 10: I don't believe that has come out in the trial yet.

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Speaker 10: But yes, that is what it is, and that then

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Speaker 10: he attacked her there. That is part of the prosecution's there.

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Speaker 10: But I'm not sure that has been presented in fort.

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Speaker 1: You has it, Sydney Sumner? Has that come out yet?

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Speaker 1: I would think that the prosecution would say that in

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Speaker 1: opening statements because it's straight out of a Lifetime Scared

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Speaker 1: of the Chick movie where the husband or lover love

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Speaker 1: interest positions the woman at the very cliff's edge. Oh,

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Speaker 1: just a little further, a little further so we can

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Speaker 1: get a really good shot of us together and then bam,

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Speaker 1: she's over the edge. What do we know? Did that

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Speaker 1: come out in opening?

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Speaker 3: Said? Yes, this did come out in opening statements, Nancy,

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Speaker 3: And we even saw a body cam from a responding

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Speaker 3: officer that laid this scene for us. So we know

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Speaker 3: that Ariel took a photo in a tree. We saw

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Speaker 3: that big tree branch where she sat up there. They

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Speaker 3: took a photo, and then her husband asked her to

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Speaker 3: come to the cliff's edge and take another picture with him,

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Speaker 3: and Ariel was very uncomfortable with this. She was already

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Speaker 3: feeling scared. At some point she scooted herself down the

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Speaker 3: trail when officers came to help her. So she was

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Speaker 3: already terrified being on this trail, this steep cliff's edge,

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Speaker 3: and she argued with him. She said, I'm not comfortable

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Speaker 3: with that, and that's when they say her husband said

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Speaker 3: I'm sick of your shit and pushed her towards the

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Speaker 3: edge of the cliff.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't it enough? I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, again, this

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Speaker 1: is straight out of a lifetime scary movie that he

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Speaker 1: got her to take pictures up in a tree. If

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Speaker 1: my husband said get up in the train, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take a picture. I'm gonnay, you get up in the trail,

437
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: take your picture, get up in a tree. Anyway, she

438
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,239
Speaker 1: did it, and that maneuvering her closer and closer to

439
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: the edge. I mean that sets all sorts of red

440
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: bells of alarm to me.

441
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 4: The fact is, if you're in a good, loving, safe

442
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 4: relationship with a husband, first of all, he's not going

443
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: to put you in a dangerous situation on a dangerous trail.

444
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 4: He's not going to put you at the edge of

445
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: a cliff.

446
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: But women, Doctor Bethany, Doctor Bethany, let's put her up, please,

447
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany. As you know, David and I took our

448
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: son John David to tour Notre Dame. Yes, we practically

449
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: had a knockdown drag out on the escalator at the

450
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: airport because he I was doing things and he was right.

451
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: Let's just start with I know he was right. I

452
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: was trying to do something. Time to take a picture

453
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: of John David going down the escalator the guts to

454
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: put in my scrap book after the Notre Dame tour,

455
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: and he had a fit behind me, as I like

456
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: to say, in front of God and everybody, to hold

457
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: on to the escalator, which of course is covered with germs.

458
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: But that said much less get me to pose at

459
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: the edge of the cliff. Hey not it up because

460
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: I didn't have my hand on the rail at the

461
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: escalator and he wanted you to. It would be a

462
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: totally out of character for a loving husband to get

463
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: you closer and closer and closer to the edge of

464
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: a cliff, you.

465
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 4: Know, Nancy. Furthermore, to put you on a dangerous hiking

466
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 4: trail to let me see the other signs of DV

467
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 4: or domestic violence, the fact that he believes she's having

468
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 4: an affair, and then he calls every single relative to

469
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 4: tell on her. This is such a part of a

470
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: toxic relationship to try to discredit the wife in front

471
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 4: of everybody, ruin her reputation, put messages out online. I'm

472
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: not sure if he did that, but that's one thing.

473
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 4: According to court testimony, he also screamed because they have

474
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 4: a two and a four year old, only one of

475
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 4: us is going to parent them, so it says already

476
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: in his mind that he's allegedly going to push her

477
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 4: over that cliff.

478
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: Nancy.

479
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 4: Women who are DV victims, they predict their pending death

480
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 4: to other people. We know that they often say or

481
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 4: they'll write notes or letters if I'm discovered dead.

482
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: He did it.

483
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: The fact that she refused to go to the edge

484
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 4: of the cliff tells me that she already knew that

485
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 4: she was at risk of homicide in this marriage and

486
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 4: if divorce was even being talked about Nancy. We also

487
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 4: know women are at the greatest risk of violence and

488
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 4: death when they are about to leave a relationship. According

489
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 4: to some reports, he was actually stalking her in the relationship.

490
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 4: He was going online looking at her private financial affairs.

491
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: This was the second marriage for both of them. He

492
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 4: was even looking up what the cost of his last

493
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 4: divorce was. This came out in testimony and in opening statements.

494
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: That tells me that he was already thinking do I

495
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 4: want to divorce her or do I want to kill her?

496
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 4: Divorce kill? Well, the divorce is going to cost a

497
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 4: lot more. I've already been through it. I don't want

498
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 4: to do it again, Nancy. He also acute used her

499
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 4: of spending one hundred and twenty three thousand dollars of

500
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 4: their joint funds. But what has also come out is

501
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: that she was paying the mortgage payment the son's tuition,

502
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: paying off marital debts. So right there, even in court,

503
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 4: he's trying to discredit her, trying to say she has

504
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 4: an affair. This is like Nicole Brown Simpson who's hanging

505
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 4: out with Ron Goldman because she needs a friend because

506
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: her husband's no longer her friend. All of a sudden,

507
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: the friend is being seen as an affair person even

508
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 4: though they're not. So there's so much more I could say,

509
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 4: but the toxicity of the relationship is saying shock.

510
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, say it go ahead. Where's more to say?

511
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: I want to hear it?

512
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: Well.

513
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: The more to say also is that he was on

514
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 4: public forums looking up affairs, like what it means when

515
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 4: somebody's having an affair. So the question that entered my

516
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 4: mind is perpetrators of domestic violence usually have pathological jealousy.

517
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 4: They always believe that the wife is having an affair

518
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 4: always So were the forums because he was already preparing

519
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 4: a defense if he was.

520
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: Going to kill her?

521
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 4: Or was the forum because he was consumed with jealousy

522
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: and nancy? He looked at these sites right around Christmas

523
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 4: in New Year's the time that families should be enjoying

524
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 4: each other in celebrating. He's just consumed with the idea

525
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: she's having an affair. And in court, in opening statements,

526
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: her attorneys said, there might be some flirty texts, there's

527
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: nothing salacious, there's nothing sexual. I think he was already

528
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: heading off the defense when he said flirty, because domestic

529
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: violence perpetrators always think their wives are flirting with other people,

530
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: even when they are not.

531
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: Bill Hernandez is joining us. He is a domestic violence expert,

532
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: a detective in napa's PD. Bill Hernandez, you heard everything,

533
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany said, Agree or disagree?

534
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: Oh? I absolutely agree. I mean there's a bunch of

535
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: red flags that Ariel has for potential homicide, the accusation

536
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: of a received affair, them getting ready to leave each other,

537
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: them having metal problems. Those are all big red flags.

538
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: And this was obviously maybe even an issue of him projecting,

539
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: which often suspects in domestic violence stew They accuse others

540
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: of doing exactly what they're doing themselves.

541
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: You mean, for instance, the husband would say you're sleeping

542
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: around when he's sleeping around.

543
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: Yes, they do that quite often.

544
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 4: Why, Bethany, or you've drained our bank account? When really

545
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 4: they're draining the bank account. The reason why, Nancy, is

546
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 4: that these men they want to control the wives. They

547
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 4: see the wives as objects who should not have any

548
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: dependence or autonomy. And a part of the control is

549
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: I get to do what I want to do, but

550
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 4: you can't do what you want to do. And the

551
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 4: fact that he accuses her of draining their accounts tells

552
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 4: me that she wasn't even in charge of the finances,

553
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 4: which is a part of the abuse process that if

554
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 4: the wife even tries to touch mutual funds for any reason,

555
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 4: she's accused of dissipating marital funds. And this is another

556
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: projection I think. I think what's going to come out

557
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 4: is perhaps he was having an affairs, Perhaps he was

558
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 4: dissipating marital funds. He had, I think, allegedly complete control.

559
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: But Nancy, it's a projection. You're cheating, when in fact

560
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 4: I'm cheating. But it's much more nefarious and deep. It's

561
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 4: that if you enjoy anybody, if somebody sees your beauty,

562
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 4: my control over you might slip. But I don't care

563
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 4: at all if I have affairs, because I lack empathy

564
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 4: towards you, and you're just an object. So I'm going

565
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: to go out in fact that horrible feeling of jealousy.

566
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 4: I have reverse it into you by having sex with

567
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 4: other women, and then you're going to see how it feels.

568
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 4: But it's all in their head, Nancy, it's all made up.

569
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: To Troy's Lton joining us veteran defense attorney who has

570
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: won a lot of cases. Troy, just take off your

571
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: defense hat.

572
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Just a moment.

573
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm taking off my prosecution hat. You know the saying

574
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: the love of money is the root of all evil.

575
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: It's not money is the root of all evil. It's

576
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: the love of money is the root of all evil.

577
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: How many cases do you see where people fight and

578
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: kill over money?

579
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 9: It happens every single day, Nancy, and it is one

580
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 9: of the causes of a lot of disagreements among married

581
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 9: people and even people that aren't married. Money tends to

582
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 9: be the cause of disagreements all over the world.

583
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 6: Okay, what do you see? We heard her streaming and

584
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 6: then we saw that over her and then she crawled

585
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 6: out with over her face that I'm trying to kill

586
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 6: her And did she know him?

587
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: I don't know. Fighting off a syringe attack, being bludgeoned

588
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: in the face and head with a rock, looking at

589
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: death on the edge of that cliff. They appeared to

590
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: be a perfect couple. What is it about a romantic

591
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: getaway that inspires murder? Straight out to Alexis Rieschak, Crime

592
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: Story's investigative reporter on the Cohoni case from the very beginning, Alexis,

593
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: thanks for being with us tonight. Is it true that

594
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: Koenig the husband Koenig broke down broke down in court

595
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 1: when his lawyer described a facetimed call afterwards that he

596
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: Conig had with his son. For Konig said he wanted

597
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: to commit suicide, and he was calling to say goodbye

598
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: and tell him he was sorry, that he wished he

599
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: had been a better man. I wish it too. Prosecutors

600
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: are calling the conversation a confession because he also said

601
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: at the time, I'm not going to make it back.

602
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: I tried to care kill Ariel, but she got away.

603
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: Is the son the one he said that to.

604
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 10: Yes, it's his son from another marriage. He has two

605
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 10: young children, they're two and four with Ariel. This is

606
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 10: a son from he's older and he facetimed him and

607
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 10: did this. And the thing was he absolutely had such

608
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 10: a reaction in court, he started crying, wiping tears away.

609
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 10: He's like leaned over and just crying at his own

610
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 10: phone call that he had with his son. Not really

611
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 10: with other things, but this really hit him. This is

612
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 10: when he just starts boohooing as the details.

613
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 8: Of the life.

614
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: Oh, really, Troy, do you have to work with your client?

615
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: Do you have to go eat and pinch them to

616
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: get them to start crying in court?

617
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: Really?

618
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: It starts in court. He starts crying when he's talking

619
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: about his suicide attempt Nancy.

620
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 9: He's being accused of doing something that if you believe

621
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 9: his defense attorneys and look, again, we weren't there, then

622
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 9: this would be the most traumatic thing that.

623
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,959
Speaker 8: Could possibly happen.

624
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: Every time I ask you a question, you remind me

625
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. Of course, we weren't there.

626
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 9: Because that's the whole, that's the animal, is to find

627
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 9: the truth. A trial is a search for the truth.

628
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 9: And we weren't there. The hikers who came upon him

629
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 9: and called nine one one, they weren't there at the beginning.

630
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 9: Nobody knows except those two people, and so that's what hopefully.

631
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: They well is it? When I ask you a tough question.

632
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: You say you weren't there, Okay, Can we just stipulate

633
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't there? Okay, I admit I wasn't there. What

634
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I ask you is why Coneg starts when they're talking

635
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: about his call to his son where he was contemplating

636
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: suicide that made him start crying, not bashing his wife's

637
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: skull in he starts.

638
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 8: Crying if you're so old.

639
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: They're talking about him and what he's been through, fragile skull,

640
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: was fragile if he.

641
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 9: Was in such a fragile emotional state, if he believed

642
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 9: his wife was number one potentially having an affair number

643
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 9: two trying to kill him.

644
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: That didn't make him cry.

645
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 9: That he's calling his son talking about wanting to just

646
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 9: end his whole life.

647
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, and then having to relive that moment. That's psychological trauma.

648
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 8: In that moment, of course, you're going to start crying.

649
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 9: Any normal person with normal emotions would cry in that

650
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 9: moment when you think that your entire world is and collapsing.

651
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: You know what I say to that choice Layton, He's crying,

652
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: all right, He's crying because he's sorry. He's not sorry

653
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: he did it. He's sorry he got caught. I mean,

654
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: dtor Bethany Marshall, you're the shrink, you're the doctor. But

655
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: how telling is it that he turns on the waterworks

656
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: in court when they're talking about his mental suffering, that

657
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: he wanted to end it all? Now, you would probably

658
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: call that histrionic, that's one of your words. I would

659
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: call it him being a drama queen, That's what I

660
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: would call it, and in front with Jurie blubbering and

661
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: snotting like that.

662
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 4: You know, Nancy, I saw that footage I did. I

663
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 4: watched him breakdown in court. It seemed very manufactured, dramatic

664
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 4: and yes, historyonic, because histrionics is really emotions that appear

665
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 4: deep in nature, but they're not deep at all. They're

666
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: just designed to get attention. And Nancy, can you imagine

667
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: if he had succeeded in killing his wife and he

668
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 4: was left to parent those two sons, and he treated

669
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 4: the two and four year old like he treated the

670
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 4: nineteen year old. He calls his own son says, I'm

671
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 4: now going to kill myself. He's covered in blood. This

672
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 4: means he's using, he's manipulating and exploiting his nineteen year

673
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 4: old for his own purposes. He's trying to get empathy

674
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,479
Speaker 4: from his own son. This is just one more tell

675
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 4: in a larger situation of somebody who's extremely self self possessed,

676
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: just only pure himself, selfish, thank you, someone who is

677
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 4: extremely self absorbed and really doesn't care about his nineteen

678
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 4: year old son nor anybody else.

679
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: What a sharp dichotomy where we are today and where

680
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: it all started. Listen.

681
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 7: Gerhard Konig, an anesthesiologist and professor at the University of

682
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 7: Pittsburgh Medical Center, falls head over heels for nuclear power

683
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 7: plant project engineer Aril, despite their ten year age gap.

684
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 7: Gerhart and Aril are married in twenty eighteen, have their

685
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 7: first baby boy in twenty twenty, and another two years later.

686
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 7: In twenty twenty three, the couple decides to follow one

687
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 7: of Gerhart's dreams and move from Pennsylvania to Maui, Hawaii.

688
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 7: Gerhardt becomes a partner at the Anesthesia Medical Group and

689
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 7: frequently works at Maui Memorial Medical Center, while Aril retains

690
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 7: her job at Tara Power.

691
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: It starts off so beautifully, and then the children come along.

692
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: But I want you to hear how this accusation of

693
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: infidelity played out.

694
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 15: The Koenigs have been in couples therapy for at least

695
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 15: three months. After Gerhard Konig accuses Ariel of infidelity in December.

696
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 15: Ariel denies his accusations and doesn't understand where they're coming from.

697
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 15: She wants her husband's trust back, but it seems Gerhart

698
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 15: is only becoming more jealous, controlling, and at times abusive.

699
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: Okay, so that goes back to what Bill Hernandez was

700
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: telling us, who is an expert in domestic violence and

701
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: sex assaults, a detective in NAPAs PD in California, about

702
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: how while you may be having an affair, you blame

703
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: your mate of having the affair. Here he is blaming

704
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: her Dr Bethany. She denies it and they commit. She

705
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,479
Speaker 1: commits to couple's therapy. They've been it for three months

706
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: so she can prove her innocence. A pretty onerous burden

707
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: to always having to be proving yourself that you're worthy

708
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: of your husband.

709
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 4: Well, that's what's being reported, is that she's trying to

710
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 4: earn back his trust. That doesn't fit any pattern I

711
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 4: see as a couple's therapist, that the wife is trying

712
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 4: to earn back the trust, not not somebody who's a

713
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 4: new engineer, successful, beautiful, big life, surrounded by family and friends.

714
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 4: This doesn't sound right. What's more likely in the treatment

715
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 4: is that she brought him in because she could no

716
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: longer bear all the accusations and that their home life

717
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 4: was spinning out of control. And if he was trying

718
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 4: to discredit her to her family and friends, he was

719
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 4: probably fighting in front of the two and four years

720
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 4: year old. I would imagine that there were concerns in

721
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 4: her mind as a mother about what was happening in

722
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 4: that household. I would guess she was losing control in

723
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 4: multiple areas. She was probably losing privacy. He perhaps was

724
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 4: breaking into her phone. I think that's been reported somewhere,

725
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 4: monitoring her whereabouts. According to one report, he was actually

726
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 4: stalking and surveilling her and Nancy. Seventy six percent of

727
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 4: all stalking happens during a marriage while two people are married.

728
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 4: We think of it as happening. You know, you go

729
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 4: out on a date with somebody, you don't want to

730
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: date them again, and all of a sudden they become

731
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 4: preoccupied and that said start they start stalking you. That's

732
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 4: not really how it goes down. You get married to

733
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 4: somebody you fall in love and you realize that that

734
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 4: beneath the surface is somebody who's pathologically jealous. So they

735
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: become preoccupied with you, and in fact they might want

736
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 4: to kill you because if you're dead, they don't have

737
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 4: to live with their own tortuous fantasies anymore. And then

738
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 4: that becomes a strong motiv motivator towards homicide.

739
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: So for her thirty sixth birthday, he the husband as

740
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: Troy's lightness, quick to remind us, who has a great reputation,

741
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: whisks Ariel away to celebrate. He secretly plans the romantic vacation,

742
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: and he even has family members hire nannies to stay

743
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: with their two little children all their way.

744
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 14: And then this the morning of Ariel's actual birthday, the

745
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 14: couple decides to hike the Polypool Betrail, the popular trail

746
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 14: up the ridge of the Kaolau Mountains leads to the

747
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 14: polyp Puka, which literally translates to cliffhole of gorgeous rock

748
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 14: formation framing the east side of the Wahoo. Despite the

749
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 14: amazing views, the cliff hugging trail is thin and steep,

750
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 14: with many choosing to not go all the way to

751
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 14: the top. Ariel wants to brave it, but when she

752
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 14: sees the last uphill stretch, she chooses to stay where

753
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 14: she is, waiting for Gearhart as he completes it.

754
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: I height to a lot of trails before I had

755
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: the twins, and I've got to tell you, can I

756
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: see that one more time? Please control room. That is

757
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: a treacherous trail right there. It doesn't look like it

758
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: right there, but the angle they're going up, up, up,

759
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: and then the trail turns into roots, a lot of

760
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: roots going upward. Hold it just keep going, keep going.

761
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: Right there, it starts to get really tricky. And the

762
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: further up you go, the more treacherous the footing. That

763
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: is where he led her. And isn't it true, Alexis

764
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: Teruschuk that there are signs after signs after signs that

765
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: say don't go on this trail again. It's like Wizard

766
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: of Oz, turn back, don't come here.

767
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 10: Yes, it's a very very it's super steep. And if

768
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 10: you can see it in this in this video, which

769
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 10: is the police officer walking the trail, and he says

770
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 10: during court, he says, you know, I'm not just hiking

771
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 10: this trail because it's hard. You see him, you know,

772
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 10: so he says, I'm looking for all the evidence around

773
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 10: this trail. So they were there. It's super steep. There

774
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 10: are lots of signs everybody. But this isn't just a

775
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 10: walk on the path and overlook the ocean. This this

776
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 10: is a serious thing. And that's there's her sweater that

777
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 10: they found, there's.

778
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 4: One of the rocks.

779
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 10: They found a lot of evidence there because he fled,

780
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 10: she got help and the police were able to go

781
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 10: and look at the scene immediately after it happened.

782
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: Is it true what Troy Slayton said that the syringe

783
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: was never found, alexis that is true?

784
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 10: It has never been found. She alleges that he had

785
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 10: one that he tried to stabber with it. I think

786
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 10: she said, maybe it got knocked away. He tried again,

787
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 10: but he did leave the site. He left for quite

788
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 10: a while. He was gone, and several of her things

789
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 10: are missing as well, so not just the syringe that

790
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 10: she says there, but several of her personal items are

791
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 10: missing as well.

792
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: Chroice Layton, you've got your toe in the door right there.

793
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: Because her story includes him pulling a syringe. The fact

794
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: that the syringe was never found, the defense can now

795
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: say not that I believe it that all of her

796
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: story is fantastical and made up just because he likedly

797
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,959
Speaker 1: threw the syringe. It probably went over the cliff. They'll

798
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: never find it. But the truth is, you get one

799
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: jiar to believe if she's made up a part of

800
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: her story, then they can discount all of her testimony.

801
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: That is the law. If even one part of a

802
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: witness's story, their credibility is successfully attacked, the jury, under

803
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: the law is allowed to discount the testimony in its entirety.

804
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 9: You almost cited the jury instruction exactly correct, Nancy. And

805
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 9: that's exactly what the judge will tell And that's the

806
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 9: jurors at the end of this case, and that's exactly

807
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 9: what the defense attorneys will harp on and dial in on.

808
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 8: If you find that a witness has.

809
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 9: Not been truthful in any part of their testimony, you

810
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 9: can disregard every single thing that they said. And that's

811
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 9: exactly what his defense attorneys are going to do. They're

812
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 9: going to blow it up on the big screen. They're

813
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 9: going to blow up every word of that journey instruction.

814
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 9: On cross examination, the defense attorneys are going to ask

815
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 9: the police officer, did you conduct a thorough and complete investigation.

816
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 9: Did you search the entire area carefully in order to

817
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 9: corroborate your victims story?

818
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 8: And the cop then is in a catch twenty two.

819
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 9: Either he did complete a thorough investigation and no such

820
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 9: syringe existed, or he didn't complete a thorough investigation, which

821
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 9: means that his testimony is suspect.

822
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: Well, Troy Slaton, there's more than just two alternatives. There's

823
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: another alternative. Well, there are, mini, but I could easily

824
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: defeat that the syringe went over the cliff side and

825
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: even though the police conducted a thorough and sifting search,

826
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: they couldn't find it because it is forever lost. And

827
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: I'd like to point out a recent development in court.

828
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: After the trip, Ariel found propofaal that Michael Jackson said

829
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: propofol in their home and she saved it and handed

830
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: it over, and there's a big argument about whether that

831
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: propofol will be allowed in evidence, which gives me a

832
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: clue as to what was in that syringe. I am

833
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: not giving the defendant a gold star for getting rid

834
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: of the syringe. That's not happening, not today, Troyce Layton.

835
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: And in response to your argument, I would just keep

836
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: telling the jury She's the one that went in the hospital.

837
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: He ran into the woods. Now you decide who is

838
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: at fault. We wait as justice unfolds, and we remember

839
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: an American hero, Captain Curtis Angst US Air Force, just

840
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: thirty years old, killed in Iraq, leaving behind a wife,

841
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: now widow, Mary, American hero Captain Curtis Angst, Nancy Grace

842
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend.