1 00:00:06,810 --> 00:00:10,690 Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host, 2 00:00:10,869 --> 00:00:11,789 Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan. 3 00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller. 4 00:00:19,260 --> 00:00:23,540 Speaker 2: In 1988, Richard Cunanan Sr. disappeared from his Florida home. 5 00:00:24,220 --> 00:00:28,060 Speaker 2: His family said he had simply left. But 15 years later, 6 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,110 Speaker 2: a shocking secret came to light. Richard had been killed. 7 00:00:32,710 --> 00:00:35,450 Speaker 2: He was shot dead. placed into a freezer, and then 8 00:00:35,590 --> 00:00:40,030 Speaker 2: buried underneath the cement floor of the family's garage. Then, 9 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:45,550 Speaker 2: exactly 15 years after his father disappeared, Richard Ricky Kananen Jr. 10 00:00:45,550 --> 00:00:50,110 Speaker 2: 's mother, Marilyn, was killed too. She was suffocated and 11 00:00:50,210 --> 00:00:54,630 Speaker 2: buried in the garden in the family backyard. Ricky ultimately 12 00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:59,540 Speaker 2: admitted responsibility for both deaths. But the story took another 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: stunning turn when Ricky accused his sister, Stacy, of being involved. 14 00:01:04,220 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Stacey went from cooperating with investigators to facing a murder charge, 15 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 2: but was ultimately acquitted. Their story became the Lifetime movie 16 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,300 Speaker 2: Monster in the Family, the Stacey Cunanan story. Today, I'm 17 00:01:18,340 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: joined by Brendan Taylor, who plays Ricky Cunanan. Brendan, welcome 18 00:01:22,940 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for talking with 19 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: me today. 20 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:28,100 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here. 21 00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:32,630 Speaker 2: Um, this, this movie in this, this case there, it's 22 00:01:32,750 --> 00:01:38,090 Speaker 2: a very complicated story and, um, obviously very, very upsetting. Um, 23 00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:41,590 Speaker 2: and it's so hard to, to wrap your head around 24 00:01:41,630 --> 00:01:45,870 Speaker 2: the details and the timeline and so many things. So, um, 25 00:01:46,230 --> 00:01:50,650 Speaker 2: you've talked about having the actual court depositions available to 26 00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:53,210 Speaker 2: you as part of the material surrounding the case. So 27 00:01:53,310 --> 00:01:56,730 Speaker 2: what did you learn about the real Ricky that most 28 00:01:57,020 --> 00:01:58,530 Speaker 2: influenced how you played him? 29 00:01:59,550 --> 00:02:03,570 Speaker 1: The kind of most sort of obvious thing is how 30 00:02:03,670 --> 00:02:08,010 Speaker 1: kind of calm and normal he seems. The trap is 31 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:10,670 Speaker 1: to play, you know, an evil person who's trying to 32 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:12,950 Speaker 1: be evil. No, no, they're always, they think what they're 33 00:02:12,970 --> 00:02:16,389 Speaker 1: doing in their head is the right thing. The justification 34 00:02:16,430 --> 00:02:20,290 Speaker 1: he made in his head of doing it as if 35 00:02:20,350 --> 00:02:21,890 Speaker 1: it's a normal thing. And if you're not with me, 36 00:02:21,930 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: you're against me. Like, how can you not see? what 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm doing is right. 38 00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: Which kind of led to this sort of betrayal in 39 00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:32,150 Speaker 3: the end, I think. And also just wanting to get 40 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:32,500 Speaker 3: out of it. 41 00:02:33,850 --> 00:02:34,150 Speaker 1: Right. 42 00:02:34,490 --> 00:02:37,030 Speaker 2: And I also was struck by, I felt like, particularly 43 00:02:37,070 --> 00:02:43,350 Speaker 2: in watching the movie, how obviously you talk about hurt 44 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:48,940 Speaker 2: people hurt people, and when you're damaged, the abuse cycle continues, etc. Oftentimes. 45 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,690 Speaker 2: But I also thought it was so interesting that he, 46 00:02:53,110 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: your character sort of, and I didn't read anything about 47 00:02:57,470 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: this in the research I did about the real case. 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,060 Speaker 2: So I'm curious if this is real, but it's like 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:09,059 Speaker 2: he was reliving that life of saving her, right? He 50 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: saved the sisters many times, which is documented in the 51 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,340 Speaker 2: real case as well from when the father set the 52 00:03:16,380 --> 00:03:19,570 Speaker 2: house on fire or protected them from his abuse and 53 00:03:19,610 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: things like that. And it's almost like, Then in his 54 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,020 Speaker 2: grown up life, he continued like that was how he 55 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,780 Speaker 2: knew how to exist. So it's like he pretended almost 56 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,980 Speaker 2: like he created scenarios in which he had to save 57 00:03:32,430 --> 00:03:35,410 Speaker 2: the sister, like sort of those phone calls that he 58 00:03:35,470 --> 00:03:38,650 Speaker 2: made scaring her so that then he could sort of 59 00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:41,550 Speaker 2: be the savior again. Was that something that you thought about? 60 00:03:41,590 --> 00:03:42,690 Speaker 2: I was really struck by that. 61 00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:45,810 Speaker 3: Yeah. When you realize, like, obviously it was him. 62 00:03:47,290 --> 00:03:49,590 Speaker 1: Making the calls when he's obviously he's trying to make 63 00:03:49,630 --> 00:03:52,710 Speaker 1: it because the father had disappeared he just went away 64 00:03:52,730 --> 00:03:55,810 Speaker 1: at one point and the fact you know sort of 65 00:03:56,460 --> 00:03:58,700 Speaker 1: coming up with this that he's somehow come back and 66 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: like choosing to terrorize his adult children um yeah but 67 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: like doing that to sort of yeah I mean keep 68 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,930 Speaker 1: your yeah keeping her close with that level of of 69 00:04:12,410 --> 00:04:14,930 Speaker 1: control but yeah then something in there to to flip 70 00:04:14,990 --> 00:04:17,070 Speaker 1: and be like I'll come in I'm the one who 71 00:04:17,110 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: can save you from those. And just knowing that level 72 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: of manipulation, like how she went along with it for 73 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,340 Speaker 1: so long, just because he was the original savior. And 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,770 Speaker 1: it's like, how could he not be doing and saying 75 00:04:31,810 --> 00:04:34,990 Speaker 1: the right thing and embedding her deeper and deeper? 76 00:04:35,010 --> 00:04:37,030 Speaker 3: And then, of course, she looks very guilty on the 77 00:04:37,070 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 3: outside by the end of it. 78 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like the film really does a great 79 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,260 Speaker 2: job of of showing the fear that Stacy and many 80 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:50,060 Speaker 2: victims often continue to live with long after the literal 81 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,990 Speaker 2: abuse has stopped you know her nightmares the imaginings and 82 00:04:54,430 --> 00:04:58,570 Speaker 2: all that that sort of thing um it does a 83 00:04:58,610 --> 00:05:01,830 Speaker 2: really good job of that uh and the kind of 84 00:05:01,970 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 2: silence that goes with it how the the siblings sort 85 00:05:05,339 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: of can't talk to each other about really anything that's 86 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 2: going on it's this It's a really, can you talk 87 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,310 Speaker 2: about that sort of on set, the dynamics of, I 88 00:05:17,350 --> 00:05:20,590 Speaker 2: know you've talked, spoken really highly of Alicia and you 89 00:05:20,610 --> 00:05:24,230 Speaker 2: guys have such a great, you just have such a 90 00:05:24,270 --> 00:05:28,180 Speaker 2: great chemistry between you. But kind of that thing of, 91 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: was there a talk of figuring out how to do that? 92 00:05:30,740 --> 00:05:32,940 Speaker 2: Because it's so true in families when we don't want 93 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: to talk about difficult things. And these are extremely difficult. 94 00:05:39,310 --> 00:05:43,979 Speaker 2: But how do you actually... get that across on screen. 95 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:46,180 Speaker 2: Cause I thought it was very strong in this movie. 96 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:46,779 Speaker 3: Yeah. 97 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,580 Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of it has to do with 98 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:51,659 Speaker 1: the writing itself was, was really great at sort of 99 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,180 Speaker 1: keeping all of their sort of dynamics and how they 100 00:05:55,220 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: talk to her pretty consistent. Like Ricky at one point, like, 101 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:00,980 Speaker 1: like I, when I'm talking to her in the garage, 102 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,370 Speaker 1: it was like really like snapping at her to kind 103 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,500 Speaker 1: of like whatever kind of is needed at the time 104 00:06:06,550 --> 00:06:07,910 Speaker 1: to kind of get her to fall in line. As 105 00:06:07,930 --> 00:06:10,810 Speaker 1: soon as she starts to suspect stuff and just, you know, 106 00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:14,570 Speaker 1: having a little, bit of that come out and, you know, 107 00:06:14,589 --> 00:06:17,490 Speaker 1: the strain, like the tension is there, but when the 108 00:06:17,570 --> 00:06:20,230 Speaker 1: tension breaks in some way, then it's like, well, we 109 00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:20,990 Speaker 1: went too far. 110 00:06:21,350 --> 00:06:23,950 Speaker 3: Like, let's bring it back down. You know, like, I 111 00:06:24,350 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 3: guess I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have asked. 112 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: No, you're right. I shouldn't have, you know, when, and 113 00:06:27,460 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: he knows how to bring that back. 114 00:06:29,820 --> 00:06:31,980 Speaker 3: Every once in a while to kind of put her 115 00:06:32,020 --> 00:06:32,580 Speaker 3: in line. Right. 116 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,659 Speaker 2: So the, the children all described growing up in a 117 00:06:37,740 --> 00:06:43,010 Speaker 2: terribly abusive environment, home and Ricky later admitted responsibility, obviously 118 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:46,890 Speaker 2: for both of his parents' deaths. Um, how did you 119 00:06:46,950 --> 00:06:50,990 Speaker 2: find the line between understanding the trauma that Ricky experienced 120 00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:55,020 Speaker 2: and not excusing what he ultimately did? 121 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:56,300 Speaker 3: You can't excuse it. 122 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,380 Speaker 1: I mean, he, there's that thing of him being that 123 00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:02,980 Speaker 1: much older than his children or his sisters rather in 124 00:07:03,020 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: real life, where he just kind of had to fill 125 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: in as an adult and, and, and, protect them. Like 126 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:14,070 Speaker 1: it's simultaneous that his mother was abused and couldn't do anything, 127 00:07:14,090 --> 00:07:16,950 Speaker 1: but at the same time as a role, as a parent, she, 128 00:07:17,310 --> 00:07:21,570 Speaker 1: she was supposed to, and how that responsibility, but how 129 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: does she, because he's intimidating and, and you know what 130 00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:27,380 Speaker 1: I mean? It's that same thing of like, she's supposed 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,220 Speaker 1: to at the same time she couldn't because she was 132 00:07:29,460 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: also being abused. 133 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: Yes. 134 00:07:31,870 --> 00:07:32,050 Speaker 3: Yeah. 135 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:35,420 Speaker 2: I feel like it really comes out that that point is, 136 00:07:36,140 --> 00:07:41,910 Speaker 2: very clear and poignant when Stacey is being interrogated and 137 00:07:42,090 --> 00:07:44,890 Speaker 2: the investigator says something like, if I was accused of 138 00:07:44,930 --> 00:07:47,270 Speaker 2: a crime I didn't commit, I'd be like pounding my 139 00:07:47,330 --> 00:07:50,450 Speaker 2: fists on the table and yelling. And she said, well, 140 00:07:50,470 --> 00:07:53,370 Speaker 2: that's like very simply, well, that's because you didn't grow 141 00:07:53,470 --> 00:07:55,950 Speaker 2: up in an environment where you would be killed for that. 142 00:07:56,790 --> 00:08:01,210 Speaker 2: And it's like, I think that just says everything, you know? Yeah. 143 00:08:01,410 --> 00:08:01,670 Speaker 3: Yeah. 144 00:08:01,730 --> 00:08:06,690 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows how much that fed into, like 145 00:08:06,910 --> 00:08:11,350 Speaker 1: once she was, uh, uh, you know, accused of, of this, 146 00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:16,210 Speaker 1: like how much of her ability to, to express that 147 00:08:16,270 --> 00:08:18,010 Speaker 1: she was innocent. 148 00:08:18,650 --> 00:08:19,050 Speaker 2: Yeah. 149 00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:20,770 Speaker 1: Like, well, you look kind of guilty because you're not 150 00:08:21,290 --> 00:08:23,570 Speaker 1: showing anything or doing anything. It's like, but she's not 151 00:08:23,630 --> 00:08:25,830 Speaker 1: able to because she's so traumatized. 152 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:26,860 Speaker 3: Yes. 153 00:08:27,070 --> 00:08:32,239 Speaker 2: And that for her, perhaps not saying something is the 154 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,140 Speaker 2: safer is the way to be safer. 155 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: Yeah i mean even going back to when richard senior 156 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: just disappeared one day and they didn't call the cops 157 00:08:44,020 --> 00:08:47,230 Speaker 1: as you should they he just it's better that he's gone. 158 00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:49,010 Speaker 2: It's like this is a relief for all of. 159 00:08:49,070 --> 00:08:52,470 Speaker 1: Us yeah it's a relief but at the same time 160 00:08:53,330 --> 00:08:56,550 Speaker 1: i don't like yeah they didn't you know you're supposed 161 00:08:56,570 --> 00:08:57,069 Speaker 1: to call. 162 00:08:56,890 --> 00:08:58,910 Speaker 3: Someone when someone goes missing but it's like in this 163 00:08:58,980 --> 00:09:00,860 Speaker 3: case it's like You don't say anything. 164 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:01,260 Speaker 2: Right. 165 00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:03,420 Speaker 1: You know, he fully disappeared off the face of the 166 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,100 Speaker 1: planet and like, thank God he did. So, you know, it's, 167 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,220 Speaker 1: that's the thing of like, well, you know, we're supposed 168 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,300 Speaker 1: to probably report, like, it's just, you. 169 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,309 Speaker 3: Know, we'll just, we'll just block it out and he's gone. And, 170 00:09:14,410 --> 00:09:15,930 Speaker 3: you know, we'll just pretend it's gone and move on. 171 00:09:15,970 --> 00:09:19,050 Speaker 2: Maybe this is a gift from the heavens that this 172 00:09:19,070 --> 00:09:24,460 Speaker 2: has just been removed from us. Ricky admitted responsibility for 173 00:09:24,510 --> 00:09:29,179 Speaker 2: both deaths and he later accused Stacy of participating. What 174 00:09:29,260 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: did you make of that, the complicated relationship between the 175 00:09:33,179 --> 00:09:37,540 Speaker 2: brother and sister and how dramatically it changed? Yeah. 176 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,830 Speaker 3: I mean, I had a, a really cool moment shooting 177 00:09:41,050 --> 00:09:41,690 Speaker 3: with Alicia. 178 00:09:41,730 --> 00:09:43,700 Speaker 1: One of the sort of moments that changed in the. 179 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,660 Speaker 3: Film is when we're driving home from the police station. 180 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: Yes. I kind of finally found a moment for me 181 00:09:50,660 --> 00:09:55,630 Speaker 1: when like, you know, saying that they're going to give, 182 00:09:55,830 --> 00:09:57,110 Speaker 1: like mom's going. 183 00:09:56,990 --> 00:10:00,460 Speaker 3: To give away grandpa's money. So they had, some money. 184 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: And like, in my mind is Ricky. It's like, we're 185 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: owed that money at the very least for what we 186 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,380 Speaker 1: went through. And then she's just without hesitation. It was like, Oh, 187 00:10:12,460 --> 00:10:14,230 Speaker 1: it's not ours. It's not ours to have. 188 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:16,390 Speaker 3: It's hers to give, to do whatever she wants. She 189 00:10:16,410 --> 00:10:17,429 Speaker 3: was going to give it away. 190 00:10:18,110 --> 00:10:21,850 Speaker 1: And that like, I found a moment kind of naturally in, 191 00:10:22,450 --> 00:10:24,710 Speaker 1: it wasn't as clear before in one moment take when 192 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:27,569 Speaker 1: we did it, like the betrayal of that statement. 193 00:10:28,130 --> 00:10:30,309 Speaker 3: Right. Like how could you not. 194 00:10:30,850 --> 00:10:32,550 Speaker 2: Her, her betrayal of him. 195 00:10:32,730 --> 00:10:35,340 Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. Like how could you, yeah. 196 00:10:35,620 --> 00:10:38,140 Speaker 1: Sister, like how could you, like they, at the very 197 00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:40,900 Speaker 1: least they owe us that. And you just think she's 198 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: going to give it away. 199 00:10:41,580 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: Right. What's, what's wrong. 200 00:10:44,059 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: Like, how could you, and she was so like firm 201 00:10:46,460 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: with that. It's like, well, you know, I was trying 202 00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: to do this for all of us. And now, you know, well, 203 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:52,219 Speaker 1: you're going down. 204 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,579 Speaker 2: It's really incredible how it's just reveals how differently any 205 00:10:58,940 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 2: individual who grows up in the same household might respond 206 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: to things. 207 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:04,980 Speaker 3: Right. 208 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,660 Speaker 2: And surely they had different and unique experiences, but still, 209 00:11:09,450 --> 00:11:16,210 Speaker 2: you know, she somehow maintained this kind of heart about her. 210 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: And also in that scene in particular that you're talking about, 211 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: it also exemplifies what I was trying to get to 212 00:11:23,230 --> 00:11:29,290 Speaker 2: earlier about that. Like these are unspeakable moments, right? They're 213 00:11:29,309 --> 00:11:32,950 Speaker 2: just at the police station where your character is, they're 214 00:11:32,990 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: both interrogated and she realizes, Oh, he's doing something nefarious and, 215 00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: and in implicating me and might've killed, like what is 216 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,190 Speaker 2: going on? And yet, she just is driving the car and, 217 00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:50,410 Speaker 2: and she's driving him home, you know? And it's like that, 218 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:55,550 Speaker 2: that tension of what are we, you know, talk about, 219 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,020 Speaker 2: it's hard to talk about difficult things. Like it's just, 220 00:11:58,140 --> 00:12:00,980 Speaker 2: but it's done so well in this movie, many moments 221 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:01,420 Speaker 2: like that. 222 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,460 Speaker 3: Yeah. That it's true. 223 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:05,699 Speaker 1: I mean, any other person would be like, no, no, 224 00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: get out of my car or whatever. And he just 225 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,570 Speaker 1: kind of insists and like, okay. And you know, it 226 00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:12,590 Speaker 1: goes along with it. Like, because what you don't know 227 00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:15,670 Speaker 1: any different, you don't, know how to respond any different. 228 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:15,830 Speaker 2: Yeah. 229 00:12:16,130 --> 00:12:19,110 Speaker 1: And also for Ricky, it's like when he finally did 230 00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:22,459 Speaker 1: kill his mom and I'm just, obviously not, this is 231 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,020 Speaker 1: maybe the perspective he had. It's like mom, even though 232 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: he got along with her, I guess it's like, he's 233 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,370 Speaker 1: also experienced that trauma much more really as a, as 234 00:12:34,410 --> 00:12:38,170 Speaker 1: an older child and everything like that and has much 235 00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:39,890 Speaker 1: more of a grudge against her and that. 236 00:12:39,929 --> 00:12:41,750 Speaker 3: And then, and then to decide. 237 00:12:41,330 --> 00:12:45,590 Speaker 1: That like mom is more useful, dead because the money 238 00:12:45,690 --> 00:12:46,990 Speaker 1: is more valuable than mom. 239 00:12:49,130 --> 00:12:51,950 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, like I don't, I need a chance. 240 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,540 Speaker 3: That's the best chance for. 241 00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:55,819 Speaker 1: Me to like move on with my life and to 242 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,220 Speaker 1: them just to be gone and convert it into dollars 243 00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:01,819 Speaker 1: so that I can at least have some shot. 244 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: Right. 245 00:13:04,140 --> 00:13:09,450 Speaker 2: And she and Stacy has a partner. And so I 246 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:13,290 Speaker 2: also think this is so interesting, you know, psychologically that she, 247 00:13:14,070 --> 00:13:17,489 Speaker 2: found a partner and someone that she could trust and 248 00:13:17,690 --> 00:13:21,510 Speaker 2: be intimate with and share her life. And that helps 249 00:13:22,030 --> 00:13:23,210 Speaker 2: us all to heal. 250 00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:23,790 Speaker 3: Right. 251 00:13:23,850 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: So she has this different barometer. Oh, life can be 252 00:13:27,770 --> 00:13:33,420 Speaker 2: this way. And he didn't seem to have that. Yeah. 253 00:13:33,820 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 1: I think it's just too far gone. I mean, it 254 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: was even, I think I, I've, Uh, yeah, I read, 255 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,380 Speaker 1: you know, in previous stuff before that, that sort of 256 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,300 Speaker 1: trial footage, like he, because he was older, he was 257 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:49,660 Speaker 1: experiencing that trauma for. 258 00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,350 Speaker 3: Years before the sisters were born. He was the focus 259 00:13:53,710 --> 00:13:54,910 Speaker 3: because he's an only child. 260 00:13:55,309 --> 00:13:57,510 Speaker 1: There was one thing that just came to mind again, 261 00:13:57,530 --> 00:14:01,550 Speaker 1: that like his father would do things like go into 262 00:14:01,610 --> 00:14:05,630 Speaker 1: his room at night with a shotgun and fire it 263 00:14:05,690 --> 00:14:07,590 Speaker 1: next to his sleeping child's head. 264 00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: Just because. to like scare him. And he woke up 265 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: with it. You know what I mean? 266 00:14:13,940 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: And like, and I think in part of that led 267 00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:20,070 Speaker 1: to partial hearing damage, which is actually, you can see 268 00:14:20,130 --> 00:14:22,750 Speaker 1: in the footage where he would ask people to repeat. 269 00:14:22,490 --> 00:14:23,890 Speaker 3: Things a lot. Cause one, yes. 270 00:14:25,150 --> 00:14:28,430 Speaker 1: Yeah. So like, like that's the kind of level that 271 00:14:28,510 --> 00:14:30,010 Speaker 1: he was going through all of that. 272 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:31,450 Speaker 3: And then his sisters came along. 273 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:32,980 Speaker 1: Yeah. 274 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: I mean, so it's that much more embedded in. 275 00:14:36,140 --> 00:14:42,420 Speaker 2: That is an unequivocally important, vital part of the whole story. 276 00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:43,350 Speaker 3: Yeah. 277 00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:46,970 Speaker 1: I think that's, that's the thing that maybe is missed 278 00:14:47,010 --> 00:14:48,810 Speaker 1: or just not, it's just like, you know, when you 279 00:14:49,210 --> 00:14:51,630 Speaker 1: think of him or it's, if he was nine and 280 00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:54,630 Speaker 1: they were like four or five, whatever, it's like you 281 00:14:54,650 --> 00:14:57,330 Speaker 1: have that gap where it's just him, his mom and 282 00:14:57,370 --> 00:15:01,710 Speaker 1: his abusive father for just growing up with all that. 283 00:15:01,770 --> 00:15:05,050 Speaker 1: And even there's even stories that I talk about being 284 00:15:05,770 --> 00:15:08,430 Speaker 1: sent up, the ladder to like, he liked to play 285 00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:11,690 Speaker 1: pranks on the kids by putting like Santa, you know, 286 00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:12,470 Speaker 1: crashed and. 287 00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:16,020 Speaker 3: There's blood everywhere. So he got a friend that had like, 288 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:17,820 Speaker 3: you know, game blood or whatever. 289 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,260 Speaker 1: And I would be tasked with doing, he'd be holding 290 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: a gun at me while I'd be like putting blood 291 00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:22,380 Speaker 1: on the roof. 292 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,100 Speaker 3: It was like that kind of, it's just unfathomable. 293 00:15:28,780 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. So it's like, I always say, you know, 294 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,450 Speaker 2: these things are not excuses. They're explanations for, for how 295 00:15:35,690 --> 00:15:38,930 Speaker 2: we get there. You know, it's, these things don't come 296 00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:43,900 Speaker 2: out of a vacuum 99% of the time. Um, so 297 00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:49,340 Speaker 2: Stacy was ultimately acquitted of her mother's murder and Ricky 298 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:53,750 Speaker 2: changed his story about her. I mean, multiple times. Um, 299 00:15:54,030 --> 00:15:56,110 Speaker 2: what did you make of that? And did you come 300 00:15:56,170 --> 00:15:59,990 Speaker 2: away believing anything that he said about her? 301 00:16:00,570 --> 00:16:00,850 Speaker 3: Yeah. 302 00:16:00,890 --> 00:16:05,190 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you know, the film is, is, is, uh, 303 00:16:05,730 --> 00:16:11,710 Speaker 1: based on Stacy's perspective and everything. And, um, but it's, yeah, it's, 304 00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:16,890 Speaker 1: it definitely plants a seed of doubt of like how 305 00:16:17,010 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: much his sister was involved, how much Stacy was involved 306 00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: in intertwined with the finances and things like that. And, 307 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,970 Speaker 1: you know, there's that part of it, but like in 308 00:16:30,020 --> 00:16:33,610 Speaker 1: terms of being involved in like the actual murder, it's, 309 00:16:33,870 --> 00:16:34,150 Speaker 1: it gets. 310 00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:38,490 Speaker 3: That there's not a lot of evidence to, to show that. 311 00:16:38,610 --> 00:16:42,090 Speaker 1: But then I, you know, my character makes a good 312 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:46,210 Speaker 1: point at one point, like, uh, just the very fact 313 00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:48,870 Speaker 1: that the mom is buried in her backyard. 314 00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:52,690 Speaker 3: Like how would someone not know that on paper? Right. 315 00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:55,110 Speaker 1: Even though he did it kind of, if he did 316 00:16:55,170 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: it in secret or whatever, but it's like, how would 317 00:16:57,740 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: you not know that a body was recently buried in 318 00:17:00,390 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: your yard? 319 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 2: That is a decent question. That is a decent question. 320 00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:10,180 Speaker 2: But it's also, you know, when one is used to 321 00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:14,940 Speaker 2: ignoring or shutting out things, I suppose I could get there. 322 00:17:15,020 --> 00:17:16,270 Speaker 2: I could believe that maybe. 323 00:17:16,510 --> 00:17:18,770 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It's like you see something or, you know, 324 00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:20,609 Speaker 3: see a new patch or whatever. 325 00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:22,810 Speaker 1: What's going on over there? And then don't worry about it. 326 00:17:22,810 --> 00:17:23,950 Speaker 1: Just forget it. 327 00:17:24,070 --> 00:17:24,330 Speaker 3: Right. 328 00:17:24,430 --> 00:17:26,750 Speaker 2: And saying don't worry about it. Oh, okay. I won't 329 00:17:26,770 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: worry about it. Right. 330 00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: And then, as usual, that's the way of thinking. You 331 00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:31,340 Speaker 1: just kind of do what you're told. 332 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: Right. And then even though... you may have some responsibility 333 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 3: to go low key. 334 00:17:37,859 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: Right. Right. 335 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,100 Speaker 3: Nope. 336 00:17:39,420 --> 00:17:41,460 Speaker 2: Okay. I mean, I'd like to do that with a 337 00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:43,870 Speaker 2: lot of things in my life. Oh, don't worry about it. Okay. 338 00:17:43,890 --> 00:17:44,659 Speaker 2: I won't worry about it. 339 00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:46,689 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And then it goes away. 340 00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:47,750 Speaker 2: Yeah. 341 00:17:47,770 --> 00:17:51,930 Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a, that's, that's a tricky part for sure. 342 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,850 Speaker 2: Did you, Stacey has said that the abuse that her 343 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,190 Speaker 2: family experienced was far worse than what the viewers, what 344 00:18:15,210 --> 00:18:19,969 Speaker 2: we see in this movie. And I always think, you know, 345 00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:22,750 Speaker 2: when movies based on things like this, which obviously is 346 00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:27,300 Speaker 2: what I'm talking about all the time, it's such a 347 00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: delicate balance of, but a very clear one, I feel, 348 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:37,390 Speaker 2: of not exploiting people's pain and not, you know, making 349 00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:41,510 Speaker 2: some sort of, um, yeah, just not exploiting people's pain. 350 00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:44,770 Speaker 2: And I feel like this movie really does it does 351 00:18:44,850 --> 00:18:49,590 Speaker 2: that so well. It's really telling the story of these people. 352 00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:54,070 Speaker 2: And how much did you know about the family's history 353 00:18:54,109 --> 00:18:56,750 Speaker 2: of abuse when you were building Ricky as a character? 354 00:18:56,770 --> 00:19:00,889 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I, I looked into as much as 355 00:19:00,970 --> 00:19:03,990 Speaker 1: I could and I agree. The movie does a really 356 00:19:04,010 --> 00:19:06,179 Speaker 1: good job and Alicia does a, a great job and 357 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,830 Speaker 1: it's such a responsibility to tell that, you know, story 358 00:19:11,850 --> 00:19:12,420 Speaker 1: of abuse. 359 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,070 Speaker 3: Cause it's, it is just so sadly common. 360 00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:21,510 Speaker 1: And, and I think, but another thing that I touch 361 00:19:21,570 --> 00:19:25,450 Speaker 1: on briefly at one point, but not only was Ricky 362 00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:29,530 Speaker 1: alive longer, but there's the physical abuse and everything else, 363 00:19:29,609 --> 00:19:34,540 Speaker 1: but he was also sexually abused. And, you know, it's, 364 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,580 Speaker 1: there's a, stigma thing still of you know men being 365 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,790 Speaker 1: abused as well you know and that it's you know 366 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:49,230 Speaker 1: maybe more common with women is it but it's I 367 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: feel like it was like a bit of a gray 368 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,060 Speaker 1: area around like the, how common it is with men 369 00:19:54,140 --> 00:19:54,619 Speaker 1: and boys. 370 00:19:55,020 --> 00:19:58,629 Speaker 2: The, the shame. I mean, there's shame for both genders regardless, 371 00:19:58,690 --> 00:20:03,050 Speaker 2: but it's a different sort, I think for men and 372 00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:09,590 Speaker 2: it's less, even less talked about. And, um, more difficult 373 00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: to talk about and then that rage right it certainly 374 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: explains how he could have the rage to actually suffixiate 375 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:24,990 Speaker 2: both of them do we you know that's a it's 376 00:20:25,210 --> 00:20:27,930 Speaker 2: yeah it's understandable. 377 00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:31,510 Speaker 1: Yeah it is and also i'm recalling that like he 378 00:20:32,670 --> 00:20:36,550 Speaker 1: after it's like he'd written a lot of like novels 379 00:20:36,609 --> 00:20:38,790 Speaker 1: or stories. I don't know if you knew this about 380 00:20:38,830 --> 00:20:41,609 Speaker 1: like after the fact that were like him as a 381 00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:44,869 Speaker 1: hero or a hero character saving people. 382 00:20:45,570 --> 00:20:45,970 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. 383 00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: He really had this like deep in him of like, yeah. 384 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:53,060 Speaker 1: Like writing these sort of stories of superhero stories or 385 00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,260 Speaker 1: something along the line of like, Oh wow. 386 00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,780 Speaker 3: Coming to save people and stuff like that. 387 00:20:57,820 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: So like that lived in him in some way because 388 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,419 Speaker 1: he did, you know, in the movie it shows that he, 389 00:21:03,869 --> 00:21:06,510 Speaker 1: I think has more than once saved his sisters from 390 00:21:06,550 --> 00:21:12,820 Speaker 1: a burning home. Something, regardless of all of the abuse 391 00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: and everything, he still, as a child, knew he had 392 00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:19,550 Speaker 1: to do whatever he did to save his sisters who 393 00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:22,629 Speaker 1: were going through the same thing. And that's one of 394 00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:23,610 Speaker 1: the more tragic. 395 00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:24,250 Speaker 3: Things, too. 396 00:21:24,970 --> 00:21:29,429 Speaker 2: There there's something particularly heartbreaking about that, about him writing 397 00:21:29,630 --> 00:21:33,060 Speaker 2: those stories. I mean, you guys did that. Part of 398 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:37,899 Speaker 2: that is covered where Stacy discovers a book that he 399 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,060 Speaker 2: was writing in the movie. You guys do cover that 400 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: a little bit, right? 401 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:41,859 Speaker 3: Yeah. 402 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:42,460 Speaker 2: Yeah. 403 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:43,340 Speaker 3: Yeah. 404 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:47,100 Speaker 1: I think it was maybe a bit too distracting to 405 00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: keep in the film, maybe right. 406 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:50,140 Speaker 3: Right. 407 00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: Into too much, but, and it is Stacy's story after all. 408 00:21:53,660 --> 00:21:53,740 Speaker 3: Yeah. 409 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,180 Speaker 1: Yeah. 410 00:21:55,090 --> 00:21:57,950 Speaker 3: But yeah, that part is interesting. 411 00:21:58,369 --> 00:22:04,130 Speaker 2: Stacey and Susan, her partner, have discussed ways the dramatization 412 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: in the film differed from their real lives. They said 413 00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:09,780 Speaker 2: their homes were not as fancy as they are in 414 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: the movie. That Stacey never wore heels and makeup and 415 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But I do think, to Alicia's credit, 416 00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:19,449 Speaker 2: she does not look like a glamour queen or something 417 00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:21,330 Speaker 2: in this movie. She's very understated. 418 00:22:21,609 --> 00:22:23,530 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they stuck a really good balance. 419 00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:26,950 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too. Were there other details that you 420 00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:30,290 Speaker 2: learned that were changed or embellished for the film? 421 00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:33,810 Speaker 3: Well, I believe they changed the name of the detective. 422 00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:35,890 Speaker 2: Oh. 423 00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:40,350 Speaker 3: Just because, yeah, because I'm not sure. 424 00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: That might have been sort of altered a bit because, 425 00:22:44,619 --> 00:22:48,610 Speaker 1: I mean, the... it's kind of embarrassing for the detective because. 426 00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:48,950 Speaker 2: He, yes. 427 00:22:49,230 --> 00:22:49,390 Speaker 3: Right. 428 00:22:49,410 --> 00:22:53,350 Speaker 2: The detective who really laid into her and had misinformation. 429 00:22:53,470 --> 00:22:57,420 Speaker 1: And yeah, he was a rookie cock that like, that was, uh, 430 00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: just dead set on convicting Stacy, like the whole time 431 00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: just knew that she did something. And then it breaks, 432 00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:08,820 Speaker 1: the evidence breaks down where he just like did very 433 00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:13,690 Speaker 1: like sloppy detective work. And like prove that she couldn't 434 00:23:13,730 --> 00:23:15,470 Speaker 1: have been, the mom couldn't have been two places at 435 00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:16,490 Speaker 1: once or something. 436 00:23:16,609 --> 00:23:16,869 Speaker 3: Right. 437 00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:20,150 Speaker 2: Did you and Alicia, I know you guys, you said you've, 438 00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:23,060 Speaker 2: you've spoken very highly of her and you two are 439 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: really great in this together. And that we said, as 440 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:29,180 Speaker 2: you said, this was a very collaborative experience with her. 441 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: Was there a particular scene where the two of you 442 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,700 Speaker 2: discovered something about Ricky and Stacy's relationship that wasn't obvious 443 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: on the page? 444 00:23:37,660 --> 00:23:39,300 Speaker 1: There's a scene where I kind of grab her arm 445 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,340 Speaker 1: in that. We sort of talked about how, how, violent 446 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: I would actually be in that scene when I grabbed 447 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: her or, or how hard I would persist or think 448 00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:54,939 Speaker 1: like they was, uh, we kind of had to decide 449 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,570 Speaker 1: on our own sort of that, those sort of limitations 450 00:23:59,170 --> 00:24:01,830 Speaker 1: with us and how touchy feeling we were to like, there's. 451 00:24:01,869 --> 00:24:04,610 Speaker 3: You know, where we're hugging and when I first see 452 00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:08,189 Speaker 3: her in the first, right. Yeah. And there's, and the 453 00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:10,970 Speaker 3: playfulness as we're sitting in the backyard, it's. 454 00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: A testament to the two of you that, that, you 455 00:24:13,890 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 2: feel very much the complication of this relationship. It's a 456 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: very layered situation. And that is not easy to do. 457 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:32,070 Speaker 2: You've talked about hoping that the film brings attention to 458 00:24:32,090 --> 00:24:36,490 Speaker 2: the effects of childhood abuse. And Stacey herself went on 459 00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:39,790 Speaker 2: to speak publicly about her experiences and advocate for others. 460 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:43,590 Speaker 2: And she wrote a book. What do you hope people 461 00:24:43,790 --> 00:24:46,209 Speaker 2: ultimately take away from her story? 462 00:24:47,390 --> 00:24:53,459 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that it is, once again, that it 463 00:24:53,480 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: is more common than we think. That, you know, I 464 00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:05,700 Speaker 1: didn't personally go through anything like that, but that hopefully 465 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:10,540 Speaker 1: showing how common it is and how complicated it can 466 00:25:10,580 --> 00:25:14,090 Speaker 1: be And that you can still come through it. 467 00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: And then there is support on the other side, you know, um, 468 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,179 Speaker 3: that there are people like, if you think you, no 469 00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: one can understand you. 470 00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:25,810 Speaker 1: And then this goes for a lot of different things, 471 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,510 Speaker 1: but when you have someone like Stacey, who became an 472 00:25:29,609 --> 00:25:33,590 Speaker 1: advocate for abuse victims, and it's like, you think no 473 00:25:33,630 --> 00:25:34,870 Speaker 1: one knows she knows. 474 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,820 Speaker 2: Ricky remains in prison and is currently listed for release, 475 00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:45,300 Speaker 2: I believe, in 2032. If you had the opportunity to 476 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,700 Speaker 2: ask him one question, what would it be? 477 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: I wonder, did you ever ask for help? Did it 478 00:25:55,140 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: occur to you to reach out to anyone about this? 479 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,810 Speaker 1: And what was that process like? 480 00:26:02,650 --> 00:26:05,990 Speaker 2: That's such a good question because I think we all assume, well, 481 00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:08,429 Speaker 2: in any situation, well, yes, of course they asked for 482 00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:10,570 Speaker 2: help and then they didn't get it or whatever. And 483 00:26:10,609 --> 00:26:14,170 Speaker 2: in some cases that is true, but I think that's 484 00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: a great question in this case because it might not 485 00:26:18,580 --> 00:26:21,540 Speaker 2: even have been an idea that was possible. 486 00:26:22,260 --> 00:26:23,260 Speaker 3: Yeah. 487 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:24,740 Speaker 1: Did you ask for help or did you think to 488 00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:27,020 Speaker 1: ask for help would be another way to put it 489 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:34,590 Speaker 1: too because, yeah, the whole thing of, not both men 490 00:26:34,609 --> 00:26:36,910 Speaker 1: and women, but men in particular of like expressing their 491 00:26:36,930 --> 00:26:41,530 Speaker 1: feelings and talking to like this, uh, the really idea 492 00:26:41,570 --> 00:26:43,230 Speaker 1: of mental health being a thing. 493 00:26:43,290 --> 00:26:47,180 Speaker 3: It's really like a thing in the past, like 20 years. Right. Right. 494 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: It's quite new. It's very, it's still pretty fresh. 495 00:26:50,820 --> 00:26:51,220 Speaker 3: Yeah. 496 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: So anything that happened prior to that, like people just 497 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,859 Speaker 1: never dealt with. I mean, you think of like war 498 00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:02,020 Speaker 1: veterans and stuff like that, like they just do not 499 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,020 Speaker 1: say anything. 500 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:06,670 Speaker 3: Right. It's all trapped inside. 501 00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:10,609 Speaker 1: And the few that have somehow been able to, you know, 502 00:27:10,930 --> 00:27:13,770 Speaker 1: talk about it. But it's like the classic trope of like, 503 00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:16,500 Speaker 1: you know, don't talk to grandpa about the war kind 504 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: of thing. 505 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,820 Speaker 3: Right. Right. Yeah. 506 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,740 Speaker 2: It'll upset him. 507 00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 3: Don't. Yeah. Yeah. 508 00:27:21,020 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: We make light of it or whatever. But it's like, 509 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, so especially in this case of like. a 510 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,250 Speaker 1: father repeatedly sexually abusing, physically abusing someone. There's no, that 511 00:27:32,290 --> 00:27:34,310 Speaker 1: is the father. You think you'd go to a father figure. 512 00:27:34,350 --> 00:27:36,150 Speaker 1: Who else does he have? Right. 513 00:27:37,090 --> 00:27:38,490 Speaker 3: Right. Do you go to the police? 514 00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: Um, I, um, you're just going to get beaten more 515 00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: or whatever abuse like that kind of trap of abuse. 516 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,100 Speaker 2: So that's a great question. It's a great, great question. Well, Brendan, 517 00:27:52,619 --> 00:27:56,250 Speaker 2: this has been so terrific to talk with you. Thank 518 00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:59,090 Speaker 2: you so much. The movie is Monster in the Family. 519 00:27:59,109 --> 00:28:05,340 Speaker 2: The Stacey Cunanan story is streaming online. Thank you so much. 520 00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:07,500 Speaker 2: This has been really nice to talk with you. 521 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 3: Thank you. You too. It was a great conversation.