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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: vest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, what, Caitlin.

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Speaker 3: I have a very particular set of podcasting skills, well,

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Speaker 3: skills I have acquired over a very long career in podcasting,

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Speaker 3: skills that make me a blessing for people like you,

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Speaker 3: my co host of the past.

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Speaker 2: Yeah wow.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if charisma were a defense mechanism, maybe we'd

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Speaker 1: stand a chance. But unfortunately, in the world of Taken,

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Speaker 1: we're fucking cooked. What are his skills exactly? Not that sorry,

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Speaker 1: finding people and killing people? Really, I guess that's what

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Speaker 1: he promised. I guess in that way he does deliver.

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Speaker 1: It is frustrating that even when you're like this movie

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Speaker 1: is a force of evil face, or at least a

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Speaker 1: force of like foolishness, the monologue still hits, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you're just like, what is with that? Why is

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Speaker 1: it such a good monologue? Like even in the middle

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Speaker 1: of your like oh hate it, no, stop, no, no,

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Speaker 1: And then the monologue stars and You're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's hear him out. Let's hear him out.

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Speaker 3: You're like, Okay, this guy's kind of a thing or

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Speaker 3: two to say, and I'm listening.

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Speaker 1: He has a particular set of what you know, like,

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Speaker 1: let's let's hear him out. It's too bad anyway.

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Speaker 3: It's the taken episode of the Bechdel Cast. Hello, my

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Speaker 3: name is Caitlin Durante.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus. And yeah, we have a

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Speaker 1: very particular set of skills that would not get us

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Speaker 1: out of any emergency situation, because this is the podcast

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Speaker 1: where we take your favorite movies and look at them

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Speaker 1: using an intersectional feminist lens. And we have chosen a

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Speaker 1: movie that I feel is both on an easy and

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Speaker 1: high difficulty level, depending on the way you look at it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, but we're

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Speaker 3: gonna use our particular set of skills to really analyze

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Speaker 3: the shit out of this movie.

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Speaker 1: It's true. We are talking about the two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eight thriller Action Ba Bah taken Yes this week, But first, Kaitlyn,

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Speaker 1: could you let me know what the hell the Bechdel

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Speaker 1: test is? And by the bechel test, I mean, of course,

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Speaker 1: spoiler alert. A media metric this movie has no interest

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Speaker 1: in none whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Uh. Yes.

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Speaker 3: The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by queer

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Speaker 3: cartoonist Alison Bechdel disappearing in her comic dex to Watch

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Speaker 3: Out for It was a test that appears to kind

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Speaker 3: of examine how women don't really talk to each other

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Speaker 3: and a lot of media or often there's just not

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Speaker 3: two of them. There just aren't two women. And if

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Speaker 3: there are two women, they're talking about men usually, So

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Speaker 3: that's the test. There are many versions of it. The

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Speaker 3: one that we use is do two characters of a

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Speaker 3: marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other?

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Speaker 3: And is there conversation about something other than a man?

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Speaker 3: And yeah, this movie even if it like passes on

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Speaker 3: a technicality which I honestly was not even paying attention to,

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Speaker 3: because it doesn't, okay.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely was keeping track. Was like, wouldn't it be

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Speaker 1: funny if this movie somehow passed? No. I think that

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Speaker 1: there is one arguable past At the end, when Kim

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Speaker 1: is untaken and she's back from the airport, parentheses not

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Speaker 1: reported to the authorities, and she says mom, and then

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Speaker 1: her mom says Kim and you're like, You're like, I

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Speaker 1: guess that. I mean that is important because that means

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Speaker 1: she got home. But we can't. We can't know on

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Speaker 1: vibes alone. This movie completely and utterly fails.

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Speaker 2: So very true.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the episode, bye, Yes, we were talking about

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Speaker 1: Taken this week. I did not realize who some of

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Speaker 1: the primary players in this movie are, which I feel

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Speaker 1: like is revealing as to perhaps why it is the

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Speaker 1: way it is the first. Caitlin, what is your history

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Speaker 1: with the movie Taken?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: Take Can is a movie I have seen before once,

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Speaker 3: though not when it came out. I slept on it

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Speaker 3: for a long time because as much as I do

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Speaker 3: like action movies, this is a subgenre of action that

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Speaker 3: I don't give a shit about at all.

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Speaker 1: How would you qualify this sub action.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess just like toxic dudes saving a woman

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Speaker 3: question mark, I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: Is sort of like I guess you could put it

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Speaker 1: under a revenge movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like kind of thing, and I'm fine with some

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Speaker 3: revenge stories. I don't like inherently dismiss all of those.

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Speaker 3: The action movies I do like are ones that are

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Speaker 3: like action adventure or I love like a kind of espionage,

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Speaker 3: you know, Mission Impossible, James Bond kind of thing generally,

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Speaker 3: and ones that have some degree of like comic relief

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Speaker 3: or fun or rompiness to them. This movie is not

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Speaker 3: a romp because it's just it's not light at all.

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Speaker 3: It's not fun.

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Speaker 2: It's too dark.

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Speaker 1: Now, the parts of this movie that are funny are

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Speaker 1: completely by accident. Yes, my biggest laugh of this because

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Speaker 1: I will talk about my history with it in a second,

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Speaker 1: but like, I just hadn't seen this movie in a

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Speaker 1: long time, and I forgot the inciting act is that

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Speaker 1: a seventeen year old girl in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 1: is going to follow you too around Europe. I was like,

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Speaker 1: these fucking like also Luke Beason screenplay and we'll get

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Speaker 1: to him. I mean, but like a known sex criminal

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Speaker 1: co wrote this. Yes, but the fact that they couldn't

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Speaker 1: even bother to look up act more women are tempested

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Speaker 1: in like they're like, who would have who would I

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Speaker 1: have followed around twenty years ago?

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Speaker 2: Oh? You too?

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Speaker 1: I guess I just can't imagine a world where and

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Speaker 1: now there's like one millennial YOUTWO fan shaking their fists.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just like, statistically unlikely, right, especially because we're

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Speaker 1: introduced with like, she's a huge fan of this pop singer,

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Speaker 1: but she's willing to put her life on the line

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Speaker 1: to see you too.

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Speaker 3: In multiple cities, following you two around Europe.

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Speaker 1: Crip, young women these days see you two strictly by accident,

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Speaker 1: Like it's just so, that's the funny part of the bit.

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Speaker 1: But no, Yeah, this movie takes itself very seriously. That's

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Speaker 1: a non starter. With a lot of action movies for me,

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Speaker 1: I don't like but it's just one guy. I prefer

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Speaker 1: a group. I prefer a little bit of levity adventure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is not an adventure. This is very punishing, for sure.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't see it for many years, but I

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Speaker 3: kept seeing the meme the I have a particular shutter

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Speaker 3: skull as blah blah blah, and I was like, should

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Speaker 3: I see this movie? I guess, And then I watched

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Speaker 3: it and I was like, well, that was fucking racist

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Speaker 3: and shitty and sexist and all the horrible things. So

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Speaker 3: I didn't ever revisit it. What is your relationship with

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Speaker 3: the movie, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Shockingly, I saw this movie in theaters when it came

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Speaker 1: out because I was in I mean, primarily because I

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Speaker 1: was in high school when this movie came out, sure,

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Speaker 1: and it was Friday. I think that that's the extent

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Speaker 1: of it. I remember going to see this movie with

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Speaker 1: my friend Kim, which was a source of fun because

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Speaker 1: the girl who's taken his name is Kim. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so for you know, weeks, months years after, you'd be like,

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Speaker 1: where are you? So that's my primary association with this

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Speaker 1: movie is just like sort of a pleasant night out

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Speaker 1: with friends. But having lived it, I can say this

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Speaker 1: movie I didn't remember because I'd only seen it once,

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Speaker 1: because even in eight I was like, this is not

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Speaker 1: my kind of movie. I just like, am I'm here

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Speaker 1: for the ride? Whatever? Yeah, But I do vive more

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Speaker 1: so than any detail in the movie. Besides the monologue,

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Speaker 1: I remember like people were the theater was absolutely packed.

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Speaker 1: This movie was wildly successful in spite of what it is,

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Speaker 1: which is like, also, I feel like it is interesting

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Speaker 1: to revisit movies from like this specific set of years

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Speaker 1: right now because we're heading into I think a similar

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Speaker 1: era in movies where it's just like recession era movies

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Speaker 1: and movies that have Bizarrely, I think we're like disproportionately

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Speaker 1: right wing y themes are becoming, you know, like critically

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Speaker 1: and commercially successful in a way that they might not

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Speaker 1: be outside of my recession. Anyway, I saw this movie

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Speaker 1: during the recession, and yeah, the crowd was freaking loving it.

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Speaker 1: I just remember like every line, like every monology Lineleamnising

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Speaker 1: gave the crowd was like like it was just it

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Speaker 1: was a very the vibe was electric the movie, I

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Speaker 1: thought then and more so now. At the time, I

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Speaker 1: was just like, ugh, this is boring, depressing, and I

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Speaker 1: don't like it. And now as an adult feminist, just like,

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Speaker 1: this movie is boring, depressing and also racist and pro

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Speaker 1: military and hates women. So yeah, I didn't like it then,

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Speaker 1: but I do vividly remember seeing it. And I don't

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Speaker 1: mean this as a positive, this is a neutral statement,

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Speaker 1: but I understand why this movie was successful when it

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Speaker 1: was successful, and because we're going into another era of

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Speaker 1: procession era movies, I think it's interesting to revisit. I

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Speaker 1: also knew I was aware of the sequels. I can't

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Speaker 1: say I ever took interest, but I was like, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if they first of all get rid of Lucas

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Speaker 1: on at any time they did not or like what happened.

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Speaker 3: I was also curious. I was like, does the daughter

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Speaker 3: just keep does she get taken? I can tell you,

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Speaker 3: please indulge me.

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Speaker 1: Taken to Leonor is taken, Yes, and then it seems

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Speaker 1: that Kim sort of helps during the second act, but

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Speaker 1: then she's removed from the help by the end of

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Speaker 1: the movie. So I feel like Taken two might be

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Speaker 1: the closest to women being involved in the plot just

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Speaker 1: off of Wikipedia. Kim is helpful at some points, yes,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like mainly through executing what her dad

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Speaker 1: tells her, but she does do things. Taken three is

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Speaker 1: a return to form, but even worse because Leonor is murdered. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Brian aka Liam Neesai, I'm not gonna call how this

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Speaker 1: character Brian liam Neeson is accused of her murder. Now

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Speaker 1: Kim is pregnant, she's heavy with Greg.

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Speaker 2: Pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's pregnant and Taken three and then she's taken again.

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Speaker 1: So Taking three feels just like, what can we do

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Speaker 1: to these women? We can get them pregnant and we

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Speaker 1: can kill them. And I do feel like that is

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Speaker 1: ultimately the politics of this world is what are women

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Speaker 1: good for? Sex and property? Because that's the thing. Like,

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Speaker 1: when it comes down to it, I don't know this movie.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of a lot of a lot, a

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Speaker 1: lot a lot of movies, and some of them are

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Speaker 1: better than others. But it's just like I kept hearing

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Speaker 1: the like Sean pen read of it from Mystic River

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Speaker 1: where he's like my daughter, Like, it's like, that's all

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Speaker 1: this movie is is. It's like taking all of the

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Speaker 1: tropes around, specifically the relationship of fathers being possessive and

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Speaker 1: overprotective of their daughters, and creating a world in which

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Speaker 1: this is the most rational behavior that could possibly be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's like a pretty like four DHS

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Speaker 1: vile kind of movie. But it was, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really remember much about it, so I was

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Speaker 1: coming in pretty fresh.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's take a quick break and then come back

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Speaker 3: for the recap. Let's take in.

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Speaker 1: Let's take it.

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Speaker 4: No cale, Yeah, don't get taken during the BAK going

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Speaker 4: to take you to an ad break. Describe the products

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Speaker 4: and services well, quite frankly, we don't know what's about

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Speaker 4: to play, but say it as loud as you can

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Speaker 4: on the phone.

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Speaker 2: Okay, BRB, and we're okay.

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Speaker 1: We're back.

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Speaker 2: We're back.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think it's funny that? I mean, I understand

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Speaker 1: the I guess, I sort of. I don't understand. I

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Speaker 1: don't even if the writers understand. But when Kim is

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Speaker 1: taken and then Leam Neeson goes to France that he

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Speaker 1: gets under the same bed and is like my daughters

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Speaker 1: under this bed, it's.

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Speaker 2: A little goofy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an extremely goofy movie. This horrible movie. But anyway, sorry,

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Speaker 1: welcome back. Let's find out what happens and taken. Let's

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Speaker 1: rip the band aid off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, first all place of content Warning four things like coercion, abduction, sex, trafficking,

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Speaker 3: things of that nature.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Liam Neeson is a guy named Brian Mills, and he

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Speaker 3: has a seventeen year old his daughter named Kim played

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Speaker 3: by Maggie Grace, who I recognized from Lost I believe.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I didn't watch she's in Lost. Anyway, Brian

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Speaker 3: doesn't see his daughter Kim that often because he was

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Speaker 3: a bit of an absentee father. He had this very

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Speaker 3: demanding job for a long time. And now he and

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Speaker 3: his wife or his ex wife, Lenore played by Famka Jansen,

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Speaker 3: are divorced and Kim lives with Lenore and her new husband,

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Speaker 3: this uber rich guy named Stuart, not to be confused

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Speaker 3: with Stuart the.

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Speaker 1: Minion, Although you know, we can't rule out that that

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Speaker 1: is who he's inspired by.

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Speaker 2: We cannot roll it out at all.

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Speaker 1: Unlikely but not impossible. Hm.

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Speaker 3: So, Brian is now retired and trying to reconnect with Kim,

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Speaker 3: but he's not making much progress. Like he tries to

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Speaker 3: go to her birthday party and give her a karaoke

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Speaker 3: machine because she's always wanted to be a singer. But

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Speaker 3: she's like, that's cool, But what about this horse that

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Speaker 3: my stepdad Stewart just gave me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, was she younger in the original draft

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Speaker 1: of this right? The way she acts and I know

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Speaker 1: she's given I'm like, it's giving thirteen, like it's not

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Speaker 1: being seventeen at all.

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Speaker 2: Ten Like, yeah, it's right.

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Speaker 3: I think these men who made this movie just don't

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Speaker 3: know what seventeen year old girls are. Like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was like, if I met this girl,

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, sure, Kim, Like I wouldn't be like

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Speaker 1: she's so cool, She's so.

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Speaker 2: Like, she's weird.

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Speaker 1: She's weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, why is she acting like a ten year old. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so the point is Brian is trying to kind of

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Speaker 3: reconnect with his daughter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Then Brian has a boys night with three of his

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Speaker 3: his little buddies, who are all former CIA operatives or something.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea, like, I just listeners are gonna

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Speaker 1: have to under I don't understand who they're working for.

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Speaker 1: I know it's the government and it's bad and they

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Speaker 1: think it's good. And that's as far as I was

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Speaker 1: willing to reflect.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And he agrees to do a job with

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Speaker 3: his buddies. I love calling adult men and their friends' buddies.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what the minions do. That is that's why

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Speaker 1: you love it, buddies, they say, buddies. The whole minion

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Speaker 1: you gave me. I keep it on my desk.

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Speaker 2: Ah, it's really cute.

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Speaker 1: It's my security minion.

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Speaker 2: Well, speaking of security.

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Speaker 1: He is a security minion.

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Speaker 3: Brian agrees to do a job with his buddies being

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Speaker 3: security escorts for this pop star at a concert, and

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Speaker 3: we're like, wait a minute, lady Raven wrap Alard.

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Speaker 1: I was like, wow, how cool would it be like

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Speaker 1: in the world where this followed the rules of trap,

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Speaker 1: like Bono would end up untaking Liam Neeson's daughter like

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Speaker 1: he would be on FaceTime, being like, girls, you've got

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Speaker 1: to get me out of this bathroom. Everyone go see Trap,

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Speaker 1: whether you like it or not, I just want to.

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Speaker 1: I'll give m Night Shimalan money forever. I know he

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Speaker 1: doesn't need it, but I'll keep giving it to him.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's your prerogative. So in this movie, it's not

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Speaker 3: Lady Raven, it's a pop star named Shira.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And after the concert, a man tries to attack Shira

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Speaker 3: with a knife and Brian steps in and saves her.

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Speaker 3: He fights the attacker off in a highly trained combat

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Speaker 3: kind of way, and we're like, hmm.

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Speaker 1: Very particular set of skills.

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Speaker 3: Vibes exactly, And Shira is very grateful to Brian for

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Speaker 3: saving her life and she wants to help his daughter, Kim,

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Speaker 3: become a singer. The following day, Brian, his daughter, Kim,

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Speaker 3: and Lenore have where Kim reveals that she's going to

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Speaker 3: Paris with her friend Amanda and Amanda's cousins and she

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Speaker 3: needs Brian's written permission, but he isn't comfortable letting her

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Speaker 3: go because it's just going to be a bunch of

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Speaker 3: you know, teens and young women traveling around Europe on

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Speaker 3: their own. But he does give permission eventually on the

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Speaker 3: condition that Kim let him know where she is and

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Speaker 3: who she's with at all times.

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Speaker 1: It's very much implied that he is pressured into doing this.

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Speaker 2: By Lenore, his ex wife.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, because Lenor is framed as being.

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Speaker 1: She's made out to be like and this is his

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Speaker 1: bitch ex wife, yes, which we'll talk about, which is

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Speaker 1: absurd if you go through what we know about Leonore

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Speaker 1: in no way, Like I feel like the way that

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Speaker 1: she's written is to seem overly severe. But there is

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Speaker 1: a read of this movie multiples almost every scene where

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Speaker 1: the two parents are talking, like if this was a

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Speaker 1: movie that was marketed towards women, she would be the

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Speaker 1: hero of the story and Liam Neeson would be the deadbeat,

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Speaker 1: dead antagonist basically right, Like, she's not doing anything overtly unreasonable.

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Speaker 3: Not at all. Yeah, it's him who's unreliable, unstable, scary,

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Speaker 3: and she seems to be doing a pretty good job.

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Speaker 1: And regardless, it's not like she is, Like I feel

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Speaker 1: like the movie treats it like she's forbidding him from

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Speaker 1: being close with his daughter, where it's like she's not.

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Speaker 1: She's clearly not thrilled to be spending all this time

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Speaker 1: with him, but it's not like she's preventing him from

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Speaker 1: being around her. She's just trying to enforce healthy boundaries,

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Speaker 1: understandably because he was so negligent towards her and Kim

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Speaker 1: by both of their accounts, She's like not thrilled, but

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Speaker 1: she's like, Okay, well, if Kim wants it, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: But especially that one line where it's like you're talking

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Speaker 1: about at the cafe where she says something like she's

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Speaker 1: going to you know, like you have to let her

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Speaker 1: grow up or she's going to push you away like

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Speaker 1: that is a line in an independent coming of age

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Speaker 1: movie of a teenage girl where the mother is completely correct,

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Speaker 1: Like it's just so weird that it's presented like, ugh,

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Speaker 1: how could she? But it's because we know she's going

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Speaker 1: to be taken. And then Liam Neeson cannot be wrong

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Speaker 1: in the world of this movie. He's never wrong, right, Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: Very frustrating to watch. So Kim and her friend Amanda

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Speaker 3: head to Paris, and when they arrive, this man named

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Speaker 3: Peter asks them if they want to share a cab

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Speaker 3: ride with him. From the airport. They get to the

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Speaker 3: flat where they'll be staying and this guy, Peter is like, wow,

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Speaker 3: nice place, and Amanda is like, yeah, TIHI, we're staying

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Speaker 3: here all by ourselves.

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Speaker 2: And he's like.

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Speaker 3: Cool, want to come to a party tonight and Kim

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Speaker 3: is like, we don't know this guy, but Amanda is like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's party.

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Speaker 3: And then as Peter is walking away, he makes a

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Speaker 3: very suspicious phone call giving someone the address of this

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Speaker 3: flat and he says like two girls around eighteen years old,

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Speaker 3: and we're like, oh no, what's happening now. Shortly thereafter,

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Speaker 3: some men come into the flat and abduct Amanda nar

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Speaker 3: which Kim sees from a different room while she's on

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Speaker 3: the phone with Brian, and he's like, Okay, they're going

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Speaker 3: to take you, but I need you to shout out

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Speaker 3: any details that you notice about them because he's going

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Speaker 3: to use those details to track them down and find

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Speaker 3: them and kill them. So the men grab Kim and

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Speaker 3: she yells out like six foot beard tattoo on hand

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Speaker 3: of Moon and Star, and then one of the abductors

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Speaker 3: picks up the cell phone and this is when Liam

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Speaker 3: Neeson delivers the line, I have a very particular set

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Speaker 3: of skills and d D.

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Speaker 1: I'm making the fart noise. But also maybe this is like,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately like a millennial sleep or cell where I hear

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Speaker 1: the speech and I was like, I did, like really

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Speaker 1: lock in because there are certain sequences of this movie

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Speaker 1: where it's just hard to pay attention. Sure, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: this speech I was there. I mean, to this day,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it is a cultural osmosis moment at

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Speaker 1: this point where you can quote sections of this speech

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Speaker 1: and not even fully know what you're quoting or the

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Speaker 1: context you're quoting it in. It is for sure, for

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Speaker 1: better or worrese iconic.

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Speaker 3: A similar speech for me is the Bill Pullman president

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Speaker 3: speech in Independence Day, Like I have the same visceral

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Speaker 3: reaction when I hear any segment of that.

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Speaker 1: See, Okay, so it is maybe it is like a

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Speaker 1: microgeneration because I think I couldn't tell you what that

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Speaker 1: speech says, but if you gave me a line from it,

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 3: That right anyway, So you know, Brian delivers this whole

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Speaker 3: monologue and the man on the other end says good luck,

404
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Speaker 3: and then the line disconnects. Thus starts Brian's search to

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Speaker 3: find his daughter, and based on the dialect of Albanian

406
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Speaker 3: that the kidnappers were speaking and the hand tattoo that

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Speaker 3: Kim had noticed, Brian learns that this is a group

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Speaker 3: of organized criminals who abduct and sex traffic women. And

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Speaker 3: based on the data, Brian learns that he has about

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Speaker 3: a ninety six hour window from the time they were

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Speaker 3: abducted to a point where they'll never be found. So

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Speaker 3: Brian arrives in Paris and he breaks into the flat

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Speaker 3: where Kim and Amanda were going to be staying. He

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Speaker 3: finds the SD card or whatever from the smashed phone

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Speaker 3: of Kim's.

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Speaker 1: Good two thousand and eight detail yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And he looks through the photos that were on

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Speaker 3: the phone and finds a picture that Peter took of

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Speaker 3: Kim and Amanda at the airport, which shows a reflection

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Speaker 3: of Peter and the whole action movie thing of enhance,

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Speaker 3: you know, zooming into a very pixelated photo that suddenly

422
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Speaker 3: magically becomes very crystal clear, a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of like, yeah, hacker, who coudes YadA YadA. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of fun.

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Speaker 3: M hm. And so now Brian knows what Peter looks like,

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Speaker 3: and he finds Peter at the airport, trying the same

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Speaker 3: taxi sharing trick on another woman. Brian attacks him and

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Speaker 3: chases Peter, who gets hit by a truck and killed.

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Speaker 3: So then Brian links up with a friend slash colleague

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Speaker 3: slash French cop named Sean Claude who tells him about

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Speaker 3: a specific area, Porte de Clichi, Frenchy, where these traffickers

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Speaker 3: are known to hang out. So Brian goes to this

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Speaker 3: area and talks to a woman who has been sex

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Speaker 3: trafficked and asks her a bunch of questions. Basically, he's

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Speaker 3: stalling knowing that a trafficker will come up and hassle him,

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Speaker 3: which is what he wanted so that he can plant

437
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: a microphone on freight sky.

438
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

439
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: And so then Brian has a translator interpret the conversation

440
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 3: that these traffickers are having in Albanian, which is about

441
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: a construction site and a problem with the quote unquote

442
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: new merchandise cut to this construction site. We don't know

443
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: how Brian figured out where it was or anything like that,

444
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 3: but he conveniently and magically find.

445
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: A very particular set of skills, which is his particular

446
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: set of skills is that he actually has a copy

447
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: of the script.

448
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 3: Takes yeah, and he knew exactly what location to go

449
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: to yeh. So he goes there and this construction site

450
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 3: turns out to be a derelict brothel and he's looking

451
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: around and he finds the jacket Kim was wearing when

452
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: she flew to Paris. But the woman in this like

453
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: enclosure is not his daughter. He takes this woman with him.

454
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: He takens her.

455
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: He takens yes, but not in a bad way. He

456
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: takens her in a good way.

457
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, question for good.

458
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: After he fights off several of the traffickers and he

459
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 3: gets to a hotel room and provides medical care to

460
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 3: the woman. She seems heavily drugged, and she eventually comes

461
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 3: to and tells Brian that Kim gave her the jacket

462
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: while they were in the house with the red door,

463
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: and she remembers what STREETA was on. So Brian goes

464
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: to the house with the red door, pretending to be

465
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: a cop who is there under the guise of negotiating

466
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 3: an extortion deal. Basically, the traffickers will pay law enforcement

467
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 3: to keep quiet about the illegal things they're doing, but

468
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: what Brian is actually there to do is to find

469
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: which guy he spoke to on the phone who told

470
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 3: him good luck. It's this boss named Marcos.

471
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: They play the voice and I was like, it honestly

472
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: doesn't sound doesn't sound the same, it's similar. I was like, what,

473
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: uh huh. I guess yeah, if you say so, But

474
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: I was like, that could have been most guys.

475
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

476
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 3: But somehow he identifies Marcos and he kills the dozen

477
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: or so other men in the house. He finds a

478
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: bunch of trafficked women there, one of whom is Kim's

479
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: friend Amanda, who is dead from an apparent drug overdose,

480
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: but he does not find Kim, so Brian tortures Marcos,

481
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 3: who reveals that they don't keep women who are virgins. Instead,

482
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: they traffic them further to different traffickers, this particular boss

483
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 3: named Patrise Saint Clair, but Marcos doesn't know where to

484
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: find this guy. Then there's a scene where Brian goes

485
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: back to his cop friend Jean Claude to his house,

486
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: suspecting that he might be involved in actual, you know,

487
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: extortion and collusion that the French police are doing with

488
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 3: the traffickers, and Brian is correct in this assumption, so

489
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: he shoots Jean Claude's wife in the arm to show

490
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: him that he means business, and then he has Jean

491
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: Claude look up Patrise Saint Clair in the police database

492
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: and get an address for him. So Brian goes to

493
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: this address. It's a mansion. There's some kind of party happening,

494
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: and there's also an auction happening where this Patrise guy

495
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 3: is auctioning off these trafficked women for hundreds of thousands

496
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: of dollars. Brian goes into this private room of one

497
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 3: of the buyers and forces him to buy Kim, and

498
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: he thinks this is going to be how he rescues Kim,

499
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 3: but then Brian is knocked out by one of Patrese's minions.

500
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: Brian wakes up, he fights back. He finds out where

501
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: they're taking Kim. She's being loaded onto a yacht, so

502
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: he kills Patrise and then goes after this that belongs

503
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 3: to a sheikh who had bought Kim. Brian jumps on board,

504
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 3: kills everyone, and saves his daughter, and then the movie

505
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: ends with Kim safe at home with her family and

506
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 3: Brian surprises her by taking her to the home of Shira,

507
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: the pop star from earlier. So that she can help

508
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: Kim with her music career.

509
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: The oh my god, it's stressful.

510
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

511
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: And we're back from having taken a break.

512
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're back at lax after narrowly escaping our doom

513
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: where she begins. I mean, I want to say, like,

514
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: I just want to lead with the fact that I

515
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: felt like there was no amount of research that I

516
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: could have done that was going to be a propriate

517
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: for this episode. This is a deceptively complicated movie to

518
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: talk about, yes, because of all of the various heavy

519
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: themes that it is attempting to address. Not a heavy

520
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: lift to say that maybe it's not sufficient, you know,

521
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: I feel like this movie suffers from a lot of

522
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: the tropes were used to seeing in action thrillers. That

523
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: being a really you know, pro military, pro masculine, sidelining

524
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: women characters, marginalizing any non white character. This is all

525
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: part and parcel to action thrillers, and this movie is

526
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: not pushing back on any of those very common problems.

527
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: But on top of that, it's adding the deeply complicated

528
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: issue of sex traffic. Yes, in a way that I

529
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: honestly I mean, it's an issue that I am under

530
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: educated on and is particularly for a group of writers

531
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: that include a known sex criminal.

532
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 3: Known sex criminal Luke Basson, Yeah.

533
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: Using sex trafficking in what appears to be a very

534
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: callous plot driven way, like just add sort of an

535
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: extra layer to this movie where you know, I feel

536
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: like at this point, you know, you can talk about

537
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: the tropes that surround action thrillers, and we have on

538
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: this show quite a bit, and we will again today,

539
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: but like, and I guess I would be curious of

540
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: what I was struggling to find. I don't know if

541
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: you found anything to this effect, and I'd be curious

542
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: if listeners have thoughts on this is like, is there

543
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: a reason that that layer is being added in this

544
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: particular moment, you know where It's like there's plenty of

545
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: action thrillers that have come out before and since that

546
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: do not include this element. Is this a unclear why

547
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: this is the moment where sex trafficking is being introduced

548
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: into the action thriller space or is there a particular

549
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: reason why the late two thousands, like there was a

550
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously not interest, but like a market for

551
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: this particular theme. I really like I mean, if I

552
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: had had several days to get ready, I would maybe

553
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: understand better. But yeah, that layer added to again just

554
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: all of the things that we are used to pushing

555
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: back on in this genre was very jarring.

556
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

557
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: I didn't find anything about possible like cultural context that

558
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 3: might have informed why that layer was added. It could

559
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: just be well, we haven't seen many movies yet where

560
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: this is the thing, so let's try it. I have

561
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: no idea. What I do know is that they horribly

562
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: misred present what sex trafficking is. Yes, I found something

563
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 3: from the Polaris Project, which is a nonprofit organization that

564
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 3: is leading a survivor centered and justice and equity driven

565
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: movement to end human trafficking.

566
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: Hi.

567
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: Everyone, it's Caitlin from the future. Wanted to jump in

568
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: right here and say that. After we released this episode,

569
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 3: a few listeners pointed out that the Polaris Project has

570
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 3: a history of problematic behavior, such as they have been

571
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 3: known to spread misinformation, Their hotline doesn't respond to tips

572
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 3: related to people doing consensual sex work. They've lobbied for

573
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: policies that harm sex workers, things of that nature. We

574
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: did not realize that at the time. We absolutely should

575
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: have investigated this organization more closely to say there's no

576
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: merit to the work they do, but it is not

577
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 3: the best resource we could have consulted, considering Jamie's and

578
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: my stance on being pro consensual sex work is legitimate work,

579
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 3: pro workers' rights of sex workers. So, as you're about

580
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: to hear, we quote from the Polaris Project a few times,

581
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: mostly in relation to what they say about this specific movie.

582
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 3: But we just wanted to acknowledge that we now know

583
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: more about this organization and we apologize for not researching

584
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 3: them more carefully before recording this episode. Thank you so

585
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: much to those listeners who provided more information to us.

586
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 3: We always appreciate listeners doing that. We're always wanting to

587
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: learn and grow, so thank you again. So again, just

588
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: wanted to pop in here and provide that additional context

589
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: acknowledge some of the shortcomings of this organization. And we're

590
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 3: about to cut back into the original episode now talking

591
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: about something that this organization published on their website regarding

592
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 3: the movie. So here we go back to the original episode,

593
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 3: and they put out a like an online guide entitled

594
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 3: telling the Real Story of Human Trafficking, and it basically

595
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: gives a bunch of information about what human trafficking actually.

596
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: Is, like, right, because this movie is so frequently conflates

597
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: sex trafficking with sex work, which is like one of

598
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: the more dangerous things that it does.

599
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 3: Right, And this guide offers guidance imagine that, oh, on

600
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: how to make content and tell stories about human trafficking

601
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 3: if that's something you're interested in doing in an accurate

602
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: and responsible way. Saying that quote in the anti human

603
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: trafficking world, Taken has become a shorthand for how not

604
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: to make content about human trafficking.

605
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 1: Yes, I saw this piece as well.

606
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this guide starts by saying about the film

607
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: Taken quote. Unfortunately, it has the unintended effect of completely

608
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 3: miseducating the public about what human trafficking is, how it happens,

609
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 3: and who it happens too. Nearly fifteen years later, those

610
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 3: of us who work in the anti trafficking field are

611
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: still managing the consequences. Indeed, we often start out saying

612
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: things like, you know that movie Taken, Well, that's not

613
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 3: really how trafficking happens unquote.

614
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, and I remember that being a conversation

615
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: at the time the movie came out. I don't know

616
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: as we're talking about it, because I'm also seeing that

617
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: there was. It's interesting because I feel like this is

618
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: sort of side to take in. But I guess just

619
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: in terms of the issue of sex trafficking and miseducation

620
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 1: around sex trafficking being prevalent in American culture at this time,

621
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: there were congressional laws passed around this time, but it

622
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: had to do more with cyber sex trafficking, which is

623
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: really not what Taken is talking about it all, which

624
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: I think is interesting, like it is off of a

625
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: real world encounter. Just I don't know. This is like

626
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: bring I wonder if I've ever brought it up on

627
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: this show. I know I've talked about it previously, but

628
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: like I remember as a kid having cyber sex trafficking

629
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: cautionary tales told to me a lot at school, Like

630
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: there was a computer game in like computer class. I

631
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: feel so old, but like this is I'm wondering if

632
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: there's like any other young millennials listening that, Like we

633
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: had computer class and we would play three games in

634
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: the course of class. It would be like a math game,

635
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: a literacy game, and then an anti cyber sex trafficking

636
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: game and the game was called Oh Gosh, I believe

637
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: it was called Stolen. This was before and came out.

638
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: But you are playing as the father of, or like

639
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: an investigator working with the father of a child who

640
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: has been abducted and is being cyber sex trafficked, and

641
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: it is your mission, as a twelve year old computer

642
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: game player to save this child and learn about what

643
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: was at least purported to be the common showings of

644
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: cyber sex trafficking at that time. So, for example, the

645
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: character met a man who lied about his identity on

646
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: a message board and then was flown out to Also,

647
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: California is a big thing with the game, where they're

648
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: like California, the world whatever. It was not a good education,

649
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: but I do remember like this being something that was

650
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: like pushed to me at a public school, of like

651
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: a fear of technology, which makes more Again, you know,

652
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: Americans are just miseducated on this subject wholesale. I'm not

653
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: saying that I'm so glad I played this computer game

654
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: and it kept me safe. It was I remember being

655
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: quite afraid of it, but sowing a fear of technology

656
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: at least that holds a little like more consistently than

657
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: I don't know again, taking it just seems so random

658
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: and based in just like the various prejudices and interests

659
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: of the writers. It's not even like like there's a

660
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: million horror movies about AI right now, because that is

661
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: the technological development that people are afraid of, and at

662
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: the time it would have just been the internet conceptually

663
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: would be like what you would say is going to

664
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: kill you or sex traffic you, or do the worst

665
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: thing you can think of. Right, I don't understand why

666
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: this movie was so popular, right.

667
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: I wonder if because the movie Hostile came out a

668
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: few years earlier, and that was the movie about If

669
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 3: I'm remembering correctly, it's a movie about American tourists going

670
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: to Europe. And I also don't remember exactly where they go,

671
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 3: but it's a place in Europe that the movie is like, actually,

672
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: this area is really unsafe and if you stay in

673
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: a hostel you'll be murdered. So I wonder if Taikan

674
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: was almost kind of using that playbook of like beware

675
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 3: of travel to Euroine, beware of Eastern Europeans because they're

676
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: so scary.

677
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: Which in some ways is like hearkening back to the

678
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: Red Scare, which has also never really left us, and like,

679
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, I would be curious if Alicitor has

680
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: a clear concise reason why the two thousands were littered

681
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: with this particular kind of story. I mean, and I

682
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: also think we were you know, came up in the

683
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: age of like the Elizabeth Smart abduction. And another thing

684
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: that I think this movie is very guilty of and

685
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: doesn't examine at all is missing white girls syndrome and

686
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: how you know, to expand a little bit on our

687
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: discussion of how sex trafficking and human trafficking in general

688
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: is used as a plot point in this movie, and

689
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: again we are not experts, but that how this movie

690
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: intentionally centers a privileged young American sis white girl, not yeah,

691
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: she's still a child in this story, when it is

692
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: statistically far more likely for young people and particularly young

693
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: women in films of color and indigenous people to fall

694
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: victim to this specific type of crime. But I like,

695
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: as is very often in media, both fictional media like

696
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: this and just who receives attention from local and national

697
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: media when they are taken missing whatever. It is far

698
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 1: more statistically likely since the beginning of mass media for

699
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: white women to receive priority in terms of who gets

700
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: the attention for during after, And I mean there is

701
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: infinite media to this extent. We've talked about it on

702
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: the show of how many Indigenous women regularly go missing

703
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: or are killed and it never, it rarely, if ever,

704
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: breaks into mass media, whereas if a white woman experiences

705
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: the same horrific event, it is far more likely to

706
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: be discussed. Again, it is horrible when this happens to anybody, Yes,

707
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: but in terms of yeah, where priority is given, in

708
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: terms of even acknowledgment, if not resources to be assisted

709
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: and rescued and preventive measures. I mean, the human trafficking

710
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: world is no exception to that, to the point where

711
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: I mean again not to say that well, I guess

712
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: I can't say that taken would not happen, But it's

713
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: just I don't know. It's like a wealthy white young

714
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: tour like, it's of course someone's going to come looking.

715
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: She's like a millionaire's a billionaire's stepdaughter.

716
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: And yeah, while it's not impossible that a wealthy white

717
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: girl would be targeted for trafficking, it's far more likely

718
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: that a person more marginalized than someone like Kim would

719
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 3: be targeted.

720
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: Right, And it's not to say that we have no

721
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: empathy for this character. Of course we do, but it

722
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: is Yeah, I mean, given the fact that again this

723
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 1: is a Lupusson co write, even outside of his personal crimes,

724
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: go back and listen to our lean on the professional episode,

725
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, someone with a notoriously bad track record on

726
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: women and also on the issue of sex work and

727
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: sex trafficking. It's just really hard to take this story

728
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: at face value because it's bringing in a very serious issue,

729
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: completely misunderstanding it and not really acknowledging at all how

730
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: the people who do suffer this are disproportionately marginalized, and

731
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: that is not an interest, Like this story has nothing

732
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: to say about human trafficking, certainly not. Furthermore, the protagonist

733
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: doesn't really care about the issue outside of how it

734
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: affects his daughter.

735
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 3: Okay, so that was one of my big things.

736
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: He literally says repeatedly, I don't care, I will not

737
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: report you, just give me my daughter back.

738
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

739
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's confounding. I kept having this question, like, by

740
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: the end of the movie, does he make any effort

741
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: to save all of the women who have been trafficked or.

742
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 2: Just his daughter?

743
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 3: And the answer is his daughter plus that one other

744
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 3: woman who he only saves in order to get information

745
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: about his daughter.

746
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: But I think that we're supposed to Yeah, we'll get

747
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: into Liam Neeson in a second. The other thing I

748
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: wanted to say, as it pertains to human trafficking again,

749
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: I feel icky. I hope that we're not completely missing

750
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: the mark here, but the fact that they're is an

751
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: emphasis put on Kim's virginity in terms of what makes

752
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: her valuable that is based in some truth. I did

753
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: some background research we can link to it that of

754
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: course it is. This is all immoral and very fucked up,

755
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: but virginity is brought up as a plus in this

756
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: very twisted world. So it's like it's reflecting something what

757
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: bothers me besides everything in the movie. But it's like,

758
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: I feel like the writing rises to agree with the

759
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: sex traffickers in this where there is a morality attached

760
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: to virginity and a slut shaming between the characters, specifically

761
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: of Kim and Amanda, the two friends that go to

762
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: Europe together. Amanda is presented as hornier basically where for sure,

763
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: yeah she's more rebellious. She says like, oh should I

764
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: hook up with this guy and Kim when they first arrive,

765
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: it's like, but you don't even know him, Oh my gosh,

766
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, which is like whatever teenage girls, you

767
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: can feel whatever way you want, but there is by

768
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 1: the writers a moral application because Amanda we are sort

769
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: of indicated she she is not a virgin, and so

770
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: she dies and Liam Neeson does he call her parent?

771
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: Like what happens? Does anyone get in touch with this

772
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: girl's family?

773
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: We don't know.

774
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it's referenced and taken to, but like there

775
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: is almost say like it is again like her death

776
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: is a plot thing where Liam Neeson's like, Okay, Kim

777
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: was here, but now she's not because here's Amanda and

778
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: she's dead, and Amanda seems like she died because she

779
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: was not a virgin. Essentially, like that I think is

780
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: the internal plot logic, and that it's the morality that

781
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: is attached to Kim's virginity that keeps her alive long

782
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: enough to be resky. It's just so fucking dark. So

783
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: even though it's like, even if that is based in

784
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 1: a reference point that does take place in the real world,

785
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: it's written to I think like reinforce, it in this

786
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: weird way where it's like horror movie logic of like

787
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: a girl who has sex is going to die and

788
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: deserves it.

789
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 3: There are other implications that we'll get into, because this

790
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 3: is a whole separate conversation about the racism and xenophobia

791
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 3: in this movie. Yeah, the implications revolving around a very

792
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 3: reductive view of Islam, but we'll get to that in

793
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 3: a second. The other thing I wanted to say about

794
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 3: this movie misrepresenting sex trafficking is that, and again this

795
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 3: is according to that piece from the Polarist Project saying, quote,

796
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 3: people in sex trafficking situations almost always know and to

797
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 3: even trust or love their traffickers. Traffickers target vulnerable people

798
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 3: who have needs that the traffickers can fill. Sometimes they

799
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 3: offer material support, a place to live, clothing, a chance

800
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 3: to get rich quick. Other times they offer love, emotional support,

801
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: or a sense of belonging. Kidnapping victims and forcing them

802
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: into the sex trade through violence is rare, unquote. So

803
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: this movie presents it is like, Oh, these scary boogeymen

804
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 3: from Albania who just target people kind of at random.

805
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: That's who sex traffickers are. So this is just another

806
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: way in which this movie doesn't really understand sex trafficking.

807
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 3: And as you already alluded to, it's media like this

808
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: that conflates sex trafficking with like consensual sex work, and

809
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 3: it's movies like this it position sex work as something

810
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: that people are doing against their will and it only

811
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: happens because they have been trafficked, and things like that

812
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 3: and just the things that contribute to the stigma and

813
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 3: negative perception of sex work. And of course there's a

814
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 3: huge difference between people who are coerced and sex trafficked

815
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 3: and adults who are doing the legitimate work that is

816
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: sex work, and they're doing so consensually, by their own

817
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 3: accord and on their own terms. All this to say,

818
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 3: the movie kind of it doesn't directly conflate these two

819
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 3: things necessarily, but it does, I think, contribute to this

820
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: larger stigma of a just kind of misunderstanding of sex

821
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 3: work being separate from being the victim or the survivor

822
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 3: of sex trafficking.

823
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: Just having seen this movie when I was a teenager,

824
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: I would say it does directly conflate the two because

825
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: I can tell you seeing this movie as a like

826
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: fifteen year olds, I did not understand the difference. As

827
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,919
Speaker 1: a naive kid that did not understand what human trafficking

828
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: nor sex work really was outside of the scope of movies,

829
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: I think that this movie actually kind of does dangerously

830
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: conflate the two because even in the scene where Liam

831
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: Neeson is approaching who I thought was a sex worker,

832
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: she is reacting with the same amount of fear and

833
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: coercion as we see people we know to be human

834
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: trafficking victims are.

835
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: And so I can.

836
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: Say for sure, like if you're cause I mean, this

837
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: is I mean, I wouldn't even say that majority teenagers

838
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: are going to see movies like this, but this is

839
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: a genre that does touch from teenagers to old heads.

840
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: And I can say for sure that like when I

841
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: first saw this movie, I did not understand the difference,

842
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: and the movie did nothing. Not that it is the

843
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: job of any movie to like educate you on the nuances,

844
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: but it is the job of the movie to be clear.

845
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: And I just don't think that this movie really was

846
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: at all because otherwise, like this movie takes place in

847
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: a vacuum where sex work does not exist, you know,

848
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 1: I think it is like tacitly saying that all sex

849
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: work is human trafficking, which is like a very dangerous

850
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: and wrong thing to imply.

851
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 3: I feel like I had a similar perception of it

852
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 3: for at least some amount of time in my youth.

853
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking about when I was a kid.

854
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 1: Like I was, I had no fucking clue about right.

855
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 3: And it's because of media depictions like this that don't

856
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: understand the distinction absolutely and just again contribute to this

857
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 3: horrible stigma and assume that people who engage in sex

858
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 3: work consensually are not actually doing so consentially, they are

859
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: being forced and coerced into it. And that also comes

860
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 3: with a lot of like victim blaming and shaming of

861
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 3: people struggling with addiction issues, and you know, a whole

862
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 3: slew of things. But yeah, this this movie is very

863
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 3: guilty of just painting things in a very broad way

864
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 3: and ignoring all of the nuance when it comes to

865
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: this topic.

866
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: And again, it's not a shocker from a co writer

867
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: who's an accused sex just absolutely horrific woman although he

868
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: was not formally.

869
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 3: Convicted, that doesn't mean shit.

870
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 1: That's something that we can take up with France.

871
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, France is also fucking harboring Roman plan Ski

872
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:47,919
Speaker 3: and shit like that.

873
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: So that's what I mean. Yeah, France is famously bad

874
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: of this issue, not that America is any better anyways, right, Yeah, So,

875
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: I mean I think that that was all I had

876
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 1: to say on the sex trafficking versus sex where conflation front.

877
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: The one last thing I have is just to go

878
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 3: full circle on the does Liam Neeson attempt to save

879
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 3: any of the other people who have been targeted for

880
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 3: sex trafficking? And the answers pretty much know no, which

881
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 3: is a version of that patriarchal value when a man

882
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 3: says I love and respect women, but that only extends

883
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: to the man's wife, his wife, or his daughter or

884
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 3: maybe his mother. Basically only women that they know personally,

885
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 3: and usually women that they feel some type of ownership over. Absolutely,

886
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 3: because men like this like never care about women's issues.

887
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 3: They never care about like the devastating effects of rape

888
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 3: culture or anything like that. They just care about women

889
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 3: who they feel belong to them. And this movie is

890
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 3: very much giving those nasty vibes.

891
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: So and it seems like the entire franchise does, because yeah,

892
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: I think it wouldn't have improved the movie meaningfully, But

893
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: like even a cliffhanger if you're trying to make this

894
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: into a franchise of like, Okay, I have liberated my daughter,

895
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: and now I'm gonna go back and liberate the rest

896
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: of the victims of this human trafficking ring. Something some

897
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: indication that he has an interest in anyone who is

898
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 1: not married or blood related to him, but there isn't

899
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem like that ever really changes.

900
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

901
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: From there, should we get into the racism and xenophobia

902
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: of this movie, because this was something that while I

903
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: did not have the education to understand the completely incorrect

904
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: messaging around human trafficking and sex work that this movie provides,

905
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: I was able at fifteen to understand that this movie

906
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: is extremely racist.

907
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, All the good guys are white Americans and

908
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 3: all the bad guys are non American and or not white.

909
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 1: Which is wild because this is like a half French movie,

910
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: and even the French guys are generally bad people. The

911
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: white French guys.

912
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's an exception, which is Patrise Saint Clair, who

913
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 3: is a white American man, or at least he speaks

914
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 3: English with an American accent. We don't know his nationality necessarily.

915
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy, it's like it's just business. And then yeah,

916
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: you're like all right, but.

917
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: By and large we have a group of Albanian characters,

918
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 3: and then later on in the movie there are Arab characters,

919
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 3: and both of them, in some overlapping in some different ways,

920
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 3: are portrayed in just awful ways where they're criminals, they're

921
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 3: the human traffickers, they're violent, they're barbaric. There's a whole

922
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 3: town in Albania that is characterized as being a breeding

923
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 3: ground for like the scum of the earth that would

924
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 3: become human traffickers, that kind of thing.

925
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: It is just like a like comical lack of nuance

926
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: to anything anything at all. Yeah, it is like deeply xenophobic,

927
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: where the second they meet someone who is an American,

928
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: within moments of arriving, they haven't even walked in the

929
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: door and they're already being targeted by Like it's just

930
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: it's absurd. Even the first interaction in this movie as

931
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: Leam Neeson like interacting with a I don't know what

932
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: his nationality is, but it's like a very stereotyped character

933
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: who's working at the karaoke machine business.

934
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 3: The electronics store.

935
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, where where at very least there are a few

936
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: lines in this movie that it doesn't make it worth

937
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: the journey, but it is fun to hear Liam Neeson

938
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: say the line, who is Beyonce just kidding? Just kidding

939
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: because you're like two thousand.

940
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: And eight, I don't know.

941
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: No, she's been really famous since the nineties, so yeah,

942
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: he's like, JK JK, really why put that in there?

943
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: There are there are a few lines, I mean, and

944
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: then at the point where it's like they're following you

945
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: two around the country, the script has already given up

946
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: on interacting with youth culture in any way, shape or form,

947
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: because a seventeen year old girls acting ten years old

948
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: and man, yet she also wants to follow you too,

949
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: like nonsense. I feel like Beyonce was added by a

950
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: punch up writer. I don't think that either credited writer

951
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: would have known to include Beyonce as a then actually

952
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: successful artist among young women.

953
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 3: Well, also, whoever wrote that line of dialogue because they're

954
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 3: talking about a karaoke machine and the electronic salesman is like, yeah,

955
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 3: this is the karaoke machine that all the professionals use,

956
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 3: examples Beyonce, and then he.

957
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: Listens like to you others karaoke machine yep.

958
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 3: Pop stars aren't using karaoke, like they just don't understand

959
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 3: what pop music is. And I have a whole shpiel,

960
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 3: which I'll say for later, just about the way the

961
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 3: buddies talk about the pop star who's not Lady Raven

962
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,959
Speaker 3: though she should be. But anyway, Yeah, the way non

963
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 3: white and non American characters in general are portrayed in

964
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 3: this movie is heinous, to the point where in twenty nineteen,

965
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 3: the Albanian Tourism Board produced an advertisement in order to

966
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 3: kind of counter the negative perception of Albanians that this

967
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 3: movie like directly caused.

968
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: So they created this.

969
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 3: Kind of movement. You can sign a petition. It's called

970
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 3: be Taken by Albania where they are challenging.

971
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: I would maybe change the name, but sure, I get

972
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: I get that, I appreciate the message, but I.

973
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 3: Guess they were like it's a pun. But anyway they're asking.

974
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 3: They're inviting Liam Neeson to visit Albania and explore the

975
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 3: beauty and the culture and the food and the tourist hotspots.

976
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 3: There's a video that I watched that the actor who

977
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 3: plays Marcos is in briefly at the end, Oh wow,

978
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 3: But it's mostly like people in Albania being like, see,

979
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 3: we're a really nice country and we have all these

980
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 3: beautiful things and we're really nice people.

981
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: Which is like absurd that they even have to do that.

982
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: It reminds me of our conversation around Kazakhstun's reception of Borat,

983
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: where it was like, wow, it did not irreparable, but

984
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: significant harm to the global perception of the country because

985
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: of this like dullbass movie that was successful, Like it's yeah,

986
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: anyone who's like it's just a movie, You're like.

987
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 3: Well, wow, why do we have so many examples of

988
01:00:54,600 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 3: movies influencing perceptions of things on a global scale. Then

989
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 3: if it's quote unquote just a movie.

990
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

991
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 3: And then again, the way the Arab characters are portrayed

992
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 3: in this movie is the way they often are in

993
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 3: Western media, which is being violent and hostile and corrupt

994
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: and uber wealthy. They covet women who are virgins, which

995
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 3: again is just a very incredibly reductive portrayal of Muslim

996
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 3: characters and Arab characters, and again has real world consequences

997
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 3: and contributes to like anti immigration rhetoric and policy that

998
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 3: is still affecting so many countries around the world.

999
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: The line I wanted to draw attention to to sort

1000
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: of illustrate what the internal politics of this movie appear

1001
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: to be. It's said by leam Nisid and the scene

1002
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: where he's like, oh, you're the guy from the phone,

1003
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: and you're like, first of all, you don't recognize a

1004
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: guy's like at International I'll call on a razor phone

1005
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, be serious, But he is

1006
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: lecturing the group of Albanian men in a country where

1007
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: he does not live, but says, you come to this

1008
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: country and think because we are tolerant, we are weak

1009
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: and helpless. Your arrogance offends me, which just implies all

1010
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: of these really ugly narratives around immigration in general, where

1011
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: I think the word tolerated is doing a lot of

1012
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: heavy lifting there, where it's like you are being permitted

1013
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: to live here so long as you do A, B

1014
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: and C to basically, I mean, it just feels like

1015
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 1: assimbilation tactics. It feels like anyone who immigrates to a

1016
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: country does not actually have a right to live there.

1017
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: It's conditional and just I mean all of these really,

1018
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this movie is a conservative movie, and that line,

1019
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: like in particular, which is weird because I think if

1020
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,439
Speaker 1: we saw a comparably conservative movie today, that language would

1021
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: probably be much harsher. But even so, it's like you

1022
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: can read between the lines where it's like, this movie

1023
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: is clearly anti immigration and it is clearly deeply xenophobic, which,

1024
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: not for nothing is wild because Liam Neeson is from

1025
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland, so but he's whatever. I mean, the same

1026
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: thing happens with Bondo a lot. I've been working on

1027
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: a story for sixteenth Minute about the super Bowl and

1028
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: how like you two was the super Bowl act after

1029
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: nine to eleven and they were wearing American flag jackets

1030
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: and You're like, they're Irish? What anyways? Very weird And

1031
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: Liam Neeson, I know we've I think we talked about

1032
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: this in our episode on Widows also has had his

1033
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: share of controversies around talking about race. So unfortunately, it

1034
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: is not shocking to me that he ends up in

1035
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: this very conservative action thriller written by sex criminal.

1036
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1037
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 3: Also, Liam Neeson's saying that line about you know, we

1038
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 3: tolerate you being here, da da da, that's in response

1039
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 3: to the Albanian characters saying, oh, you think that just

1040
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 3: because we're immigrants, you can exploit us and take advantage

1041
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 3: of us and all this stuff, which fair point that

1042
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 3: does often happen to immigrants, but it's undermined by the

1043
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 3: fact that what they're doing is illegal trafficking. It's like, well, point,

1044
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 3: not well taken because of what. But it's of course

1045
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 3: like these filmmakers writing these Eastern European characters in this way,

1046
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 3: and it's just such a mind fuck.

1047
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: It's hard to talk about this movie because there are

1048
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: so many major consequential issues being conflated with each other

1049
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 1: that it just feels like an intentional way of like, well,

1050
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: the only immigrant characters in this movie are going to

1051
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: see are going to be engaged in the most horrific

1052
01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: crime you can think of, So how can you have

1053
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: a common versation around immigration when that is the puzzle

1054
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: box that a sex criminal has put in front of you?

1055
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: And you're like, well, I guess I don't know. I

1056
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: guess I don't know the answer to that question, and

1057
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: I resent being asked. Right, Yeah, it's all horseshit, LIKEE

1058
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 1: is horseshit is. The other co writer of this movie

1059
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: co wrote movies in the Karate Kid franchise and The

1060
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: Fifth Element, and now owns a vineyard in Sonoma, and

1061
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: that is all I know about him. His name is

1062
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: Robert Mark came in. Anyways, both men who wrote this

1063
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: movie were pushing fifty, if not over fifty when writing

1064
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: this movie about teenage girls. Which is why they're following

1065
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: you two around Western Europe.

1066
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is why she squeals when she's given a horse,

1067
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 3: and she loves milkshakes with extra cherries. Not to say

1068
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 3: that seventeen year olds can't love horses and can't love milkshakes,

1069
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 3: but the way she's framed in this movie feels like

1070
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 3: writers just like infantalizing this girl slash, having no idea

1071
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 3: how a seventeen year old girl actually behaves.

1072
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: Well's skin just talking about Kim and Lenore, because it's like, yeah,

1073
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: the way that Kim has introduced clearly she's very wealthy.

1074
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: We have Nisson's character is not as wealthy. He lives

1075
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: in an apartment. We don't really know what his financial

1076
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: status is. But she, you know, Leonore has remarried a

1077
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: very very rich man and Kim lives with them. But

1078
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: it's made a point to make Lenore look rude, to say, like,

1079
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: why did you get her a karaoke machine? She was

1080
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: really into that when she was twelve, as if to say,

1081
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: you don't know your daughter very well because you were

1082
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: not around for all of her formative years, which becomes

1083
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: clearer as the movie goes on, not that it really

1084
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 1: goes anywhere, but it has made clearer that, like Kim

1085
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: agrees with this, Kim felt very estrange from her father

1086
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 1: while growing up. But then to say for leonor to

1087
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: say that and then have her be like what she

1088
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,959
Speaker 1: really wants is a pony, You're like, well, is she an.

1089
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 2: Adult or not?

1090
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 3: Like especially because the movie opens with like video camera

1091
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 3: footage of Kim's like fifth birthday where she's given a

1092
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 3: toy horse and she's like, tie, he look at my.

1093
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: Little horse, Like okay, so you're all infantilizing her and

1094
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: she's she appears to love it, like poor Kim like

1095
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: that or I mean the actor that plays Kim, because

1096
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: it's just like so divorced from an existing like she's

1097
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: very much like a daddy's girl character. I have, yeah,

1098
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: some just some notes again in the like conflating things

1099
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: and airtight logic that this movie has a vested interest

1100
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 1: in creating. Is Yeah, the relationship between fathers and das

1101
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: and like the like overprotective father trope, which we see

1102
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: in movies constantly. Depending on who the movie is centering,

1103
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: it can be framed as like a force of oppression,

1104
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: and then in other movies it's made to seem very reasonable.

1105
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: This movie, it is made to seem almost as reasonable

1106
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: as I've ever seen it, to the point of absurdity

1107
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: of like and connects to like if you want to

1108
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,719
Speaker 1: go back hundreds of years, connects to you know, how

1109
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: fathers are trained to see their daughters as their property

1110
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: and as a bartering tool. And you know, I don't

1111
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: think that they're thinking that hard about it. But there

1112
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 1: is a clear reason why this trope exists. It is

1113
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: rooted in something real. But this movie just doesn't want

1114
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: to talk about anything. But yeah, it's like he you know,

1115
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 1: she is his property. It's tricky because in some ways

1116
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, he wants to right some wrongs. He's retired,

1117
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: he wants to have some sort of connection with his daughter.

1118
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: He's relocated to do it. I don't even object to

1119
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: that as long as Kim feels okay about it, which

1120
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: she appears to, and that they're trying to make it work.

1121
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: But like again, it's just his overprotectiveness, which is made

1122
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 1: to seem so wildly correct, and like the idea, like

1123
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 1: any of Lenore's boundaries are made to seem cruel or

1124
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: ridiculous as it folds out. Well, the first time we

1125
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 1: meet Lenora, she's setting a boundary with him, saying like, hey,

1126
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: this is we agreed that this was going to be

1127
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: the way this was gonna go. And he's like, oh, well,

1128
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: I don't care. And then Kim shows up and she's like, oh,

1129
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: I don't care either, and then Lenor looks mean for

1130
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,560
Speaker 1: having set the boundary. And then the next time we

1131
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: see her, she is encouraging Liam Neeson to let Kim

1132
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: go on this trip to Paris and like, give her

1133
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of freedom. She's you know, she's a teenager.

1134
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: She's going to push you away if she feels hyper

1135
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: surveilled by you, and he says okay. And the one

1136
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: time he gives in to something she recommends, she who

1137
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: it appears, has in entirely raised her daughter, she is

1138
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: dead wrong and is not able to participate in the movie. Further,

1139
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:08,679
Speaker 1: she doesn't I don't.

1140
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:11,480
Speaker 3: Think she she doesn't have a particular set of skills

1141
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 3: Jamie has she to do.

1142
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: Her skills are wife, but we also don't know that

1143
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 1: did she ever have a career, We don't know. I mean,

1144
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 1: I guess the most I can say for that is

1145
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: that at least they bothered to explain why the marriage

1146
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: fell apart and why his relationship to them is so tenuous.

1147
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 1: But even so, it is just made to seem like

1148
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 1: there's no point where leam Neisum is not correct, and

1149
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: that the world revolves around his feelings about people and

1150
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: boundaries and relationships to be correct, like the world will

1151
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: shift on its access to meet his logic, and that's

1152
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: at the expense of the two women.

1153
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 2: In the story.

1154
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this reminds me of a trope that we

1155
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 3: talk about from time to time, where in any story

1156
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 3: where there's a woman who ends up as a damsel

1157
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 3: in distress and the man protagonist saves her, by the

1158
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 3: movie's logic, that entitles him to that woman because he's

1159
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 3: saved her, this is the prize he gets in return

1160
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 3: for saving her, and she's obligated to be with him

1161
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 3: and to kiss him because he saved her. I feel

1162
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 3: like a similar logic applies here, where because he's saved.

1163
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 2: His daughter, his daughter.

1164
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 3: He has redeemed himself as a father, and now he's

1165
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 3: gonna be allowed to be an active participant in her

1166
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 3: life and he's entitled to her time and all that

1167
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. And that is not necessarily true. Just

1168
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 3: because a person does one good thing does not redeem

1169
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 3: them for a lifetime of wickedness. And yes, that is

1170
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 3: a quote from the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

1171
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: But I wow, I'm problematic king. Yeah, no, it's true.

1172
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 1: And it again, it's like the way that these issues

1173
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 1: and dynamics are proposed makes it hard to talk about

1174
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 1: in an analytical way because you know, like if I'm

1175
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:22,600
Speaker 1: putting myself in a parent character's head, like both of

1176
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: the parents to me are acting weird, where it's like

1177
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: Lenore has no concerns about this whatsoever. That also feels weird.

1178
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: Like I of course, like if my kid was like

1179
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: I want to go to Europe alone with people you

1180
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: basically don't know, I would I would be worried. I

1181
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: don't think it's unreasonable to express concern and express like, Okay,

1182
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: here is where you know, like, here is how we're

1183
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:49,759
Speaker 1: going to approach safety. Here's how we're going to approach

1184
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: communication and blah blah blah, like in a way that

1185
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: feels pretty healthy, but like neither of them are proposing that.

1186
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're both on opposite ends of the spectrum, like, well,

1187
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 3: she's too aloof and he's too overprotective.

1188
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. So if that's the case, whose logic does the

1189
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: story favor and it's leam Neeson, it makes Leonora look

1190
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: negligent and foolish for feeling any other way. This is

1191
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: why I find action movies like kind of eye rolly

1192
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: in general, where it's just like it's just creating, you know,

1193
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: a structure in which one guy is the coolest guy

1194
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: on the planet, and so of course it's not gonna

1195
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: make any sense. It sounds like the stepdad is at

1196
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 1: least you know, I don't know what he's like as

1197
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,519
Speaker 1: a father, but he's certainly you know, he's like an

1198
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 1: oil he deals with shell. I was like, I here's

1199
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 1: something where in my brain wasn't working where leam Neeson

1200
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: was talking so fast, like, well, you have a bunch

1201
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: of deals with shell corporations, as like shell corporations or

1202
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:54,480
Speaker 1: the shell corporation.

1203
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 2: Good question, what is his job?

1204
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,759
Speaker 1: What is he doing? It doesn't sound good. It definitely

1205
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: does sound good. You don't get a house like that

1206
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: doing good things generally, but like certainly not. But it

1207
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 1: feels like that character is there and behaving like that,

1208
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: just again in service of making leam Neeson the cooler

1209
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: of like this, like you know, suit fucking sucks and

1210
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: like he doesn't know what he's talking about, and she

1211
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: should have stayed with me. I'm awesome even though I

1212
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: was negligent and a horrible husband and a horrible father,

1213
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 1: which actually is at least acknowledged by the story. And

1214
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: then we have how Jean Claude's what his wife is treated,

1215
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: which is goodness, so absurd.

1216
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 3: Leem Neeson shoots her for no reason other than to

1217
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:46,879
Speaker 3: send the message.

1218
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: Also, her job is dinner. Yes, her job is dinner.

1219
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,719
Speaker 1: She lets a strange like you would think someone who

1220
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: is his wife of someone this high profile would know

1221
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,679
Speaker 1: maybe to not let a random stranger into the house,

1222
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: but that is like literally not the case.

1223
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 3: Here knows him because they go way back, so that

1224
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 3: I can kind of buy it like that he's a

1225
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 3: family friend. It seems like they already know each other,

1226
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 3: but that doesn't excuse any of the other ways she's portrayed,

1227
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 3: which is like, yeah, she's like here, have dinner, and

1228
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 3: then again he shoots her. She is not involved at

1229
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 3: all in this situation, but he needs to send a

1230
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 3: message to his new enemy, Jean Claude, and he does

1231
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 3: that by shooting her in the arm, threatening to shoot

1232
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 3: her in the ess wounds.

1233
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, oh shot her king.

1234
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 3: Then after he gets what he wants from Jean Claude,

1235
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 3: which is like the information on that Patrice guy. The

1236
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,480
Speaker 3: scene ends with Brian saying, please.

1237
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 2: Apologize to your wife for me.

1238
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 3: Then the exits and then we never know what happened

1239
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 3: beens to the wife Isabelle.

1240
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 1: And also Jean Claude treats his wife like garbage, you know,

1241
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 1: like and Jean Claude also a bad guy. It's not like,

1242
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 1: you know, there's he's being presented as like the peak

1243
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: of morality. That's leam Neeson. And he shoots her, but

1244
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: like you know, he tells, you know, his wife, he

1245
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 1: tells her to shut up. He's like, you know, he's

1246
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: being very rude to her when she understandably has no

1247
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: fucking clue what they're talking about, and he's like shut off.

1248
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: And then she shot and you're like, Wow, I don't

1249
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: know what I expected from a Luke Basard screenplay, but

1250
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 1: here I am watching it. It's just like it's like comical,

1251
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. And also, yeah, this movie was produced by

1252
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 1: Luke Basson. The director Pierre Morrell was Bison's go to cinematographer.

1253
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 1: So this is very much the predatory racist boys Club movie.

1254
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: And it made a quarter of a billion dollars. It

1255
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: made almost it made its budget back almost times. It

1256
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: was wildly successful. Again, had these two shitty sequels, and

1257
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 1: I guess also a TV show.

1258
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, which I missed. It's a not Liam Neeson. It's

1259
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 3: the same character but played by a different actor. It's

1260
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 3: kind of like a re envisioning.

1261
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: Guy named Clive stand In. Wow, what a wild last

1262
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: name for an actor. Stand In sort of feels like

1263
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: a death sentence. Anyways, Yeah, this movie has I mean

1264
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: and speaking to like the campaign run in Albania to

1265
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 1: reverse the misinformation of this movie. I feel like, I mean,

1266
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 1: it's weird because I feel like a lot of times

1267
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: on this show we cover like, well, it's unclear what

1268
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: if any net harm resulted from this. It's rare to

1269
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:49,679
Speaker 1: talk about a movie where there is demonstrable net harm

1270
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:52,640
Speaker 1: done by the movie's success, but this is one of

1271
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: those movies. Absolutely no question in my mind, this movie

1272
01:17:56,520 --> 01:18:02,879
Speaker 1: did bad things for people's understanding of extremely important issues,

1273
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: for sure, and written by again like truly the last

1274
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 1: person you want weighing in on issues around human trafficking,

1275
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: the last person you want, who's creative work you want

1276
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: to see? Really period, end of sentence. And granted, at

1277
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 1: this time, this you know, in two thousand and eight,

1278
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 1: this conversation around Luke Pasan was not happening yet. That

1279
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen for almost ten years afterwards. But looking back

1280
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: on it now, but.

1281
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,759
Speaker 3: All you had to do was watch Leon the Professional and.

1282
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: Feeling I mean what, but a lot of people like

1283
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: it took a long time for the conversation around that

1284
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: movie to come all the way around. It took a

1285
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 1: really really long time. I mean not that not to

1286
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: discount anyone who was having the conversation when it started,

1287
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 1: but just in the like majority public sense, that was

1288
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 1: a beloved movie when it came out. Is I just yeah,

1289
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: lukeas On, I really wish him the worst.

1290
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, the same, may he rot in hell?

1291
01:18:58,680 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1292
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 2: The last thing I have.

1293
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 3: Is the way the buddies talk about the pop star Shira,

1294
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 3: where the guy his name is Sam I think, calls

1295
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 3: her a pop diva and then he's like, I don't

1296
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:17,080
Speaker 3: know if you'd call her a singer, more like a

1297
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 3: cash cow. And it's just like demonstrating the way that

1298
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 3: men often are disparaging about performers or media that is

1299
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 3: targeted toward women because they.

1300
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 1: Was pulled from personal conversations that the people who make

1301
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 1: this movie have probably right exactly.

1302
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 3: So it's just like, oh, these men hate art buy

1303
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,559
Speaker 3: and for women because they think, oh, if it's not

1304
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 3: for me, then it must be bad.

1305
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also in that scene the one other I

1306
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 1: forgot to say this earlier, but the way that his

1307
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 1: friends it's just something that we talk about on the

1308
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 1: show all the time. But how the fact that Liam

1309
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Neeson has taken it upon himself to be an actor

1310
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: presence in his daughter's life on her seventeenth birthday is

1311
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: presented as like this heroic feat and just how low

1312
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 1: the bar is for father participation in a child's life.

1313
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,600
Speaker 1: And they're like they literally like has she thanked you?

1314
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: You're like like it really seems like he sees her

1315
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 1: one day a year, like why would she think him?

1316
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: But also the way she's written, she might, you know,

1317
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,799
Speaker 1: like she's like daddy, Yeah, because she's.

1318
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 3: My milkshake and my horses.

1319
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 1: Where's my milk? And my horsey? Classic seventeen year old behavior,

1320
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:41,519
Speaker 1: Like this movie can it can go? It can go?

1321
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 1: Like I again, love the movies you love, but this

1322
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 1: movie I feel like is best enjoyed ironically, and it did.

1323
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 2: It did.

1324
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 1: Just I will not be revisiting it after this. I

1325
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: just I don't know rare that my fifteen year old

1326
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 1: self was right, but she was. She was really cooking

1327
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 1: on and having no further interest in this movie, franchise, genre, etc.

1328
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:07,440
Speaker 2: I love that for young Jamie.

1329
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't pass the Bechel desk. I don't care

1330
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:10,839
Speaker 1: if it does. It doesn't.

1331
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 2: It doesn't.

1332
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,840
Speaker 3: It spiritually doesn't. And this movie on our nipple scale,

1333
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,759
Speaker 3: where we rate zero to five nipples based on examining

1334
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 3: the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I give it

1335
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:22,959
Speaker 3: zero nipples.

1336
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: I give it zero. I have nothing to give.

1337
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, we haven't talked about the concept of fridging in

1338
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 3: a while, or at least not defining it by that.

1339
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 3: But like I just also want to point out, like

1340
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 3: this is fridging the movie for any listeners who are

1341
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 3: not familiar, we're talking about a common trope in the

1342
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 3: action genre, but it also you can see it in

1343
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:53,719
Speaker 3: any genre. But it was a term coined by comic

1344
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 3: writer Gail Simone in nineteen ninety nine. It describes a

1345
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 3: trend in storytelling where characters who are women will face

1346
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 3: disproportionate harm. They'll be killed, maime, dessaulted, abducted, anything like that,

1347
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 3: in order to serve as plot devices to motivate the

1348
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 3: men in the story. Usually it's a smaller plot point

1349
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 3: of a larger story, but like in the Taken movies,

1350
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 3: it's the whole story fridging the movie, the whole plot

1351
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 3: hinges on.

1352
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: There's no movie if it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, there's no

1353
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 1: active person in this movie besides sex traffickers and Liam Neeson.

1354
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 1: Outside of that, there's not even a you know, I

1355
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:41,679
Speaker 1: think what is more common now in sexist movies where

1356
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: it's like the women will maybe kick once or twice. No,

1357
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: we're not even rising to that. There is nothing. It's

1358
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 1: just shaking, sobbing, crying, and all the information that's been

1359
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 1: conveyed is not thought about. I mean, this movie is

1360
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:01,719
Speaker 1: just like saying it's it's weird. This movie isn't saying nothing.

1361
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: It is just saying a lot of wrong things in

1362
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 1: a way that sticks with you harder than you might expect,

1363
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 1: because there are so few movies, especially like widely released movies,

1364
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: that address issues like this, and so the ones that do,

1365
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: if they get it wrong, that makes a big difference exactly,

1366
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 1: And the legacy of this movie says that. So, yeah,

1367
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 1: zero nipples, it sucks. You know the monologue, sure, sure, sure,

1368
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,680
Speaker 1: but watch it on YouTube and fuck the rest.

1369
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 3: And it's a monologue that could be said by many

1370
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 3: characters in many different movies, so it's not even though

1371
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 3: it's specific to him.

1372
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 1: I think that the nice thing is most people who

1373
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,680
Speaker 1: know that monologue forget the plot of Taken, and that

1374
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: is the best case scenario there. So with that, we're

1375
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,720
Speaker 1: back at lax. I guess we don't care that our

1376
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:59,759
Speaker 1: friend died and let's just go home.

1377
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I'm ready for my singing lessons.

1378
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 1: By this diva, Kim is also implied to be trauma free.

1379
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: The second shot, You're just like, okay, anyways, we can't

1380
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: we can't talk about this movie a second longer. Thank

1381
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 1: you for listening to our back to School episode which

1382
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 1: was taken wow. Thank you again for listening. If you

1383
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode, you can follow us online follow us

1384
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: or mainly on Instagram at Bechdelcast. We're still on Twitter occasionally,

1385
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:34,679
Speaker 1: and if you want more hashtag content with just Caitlin

1386
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 1: and myself, you can go to our Patreon aka Matreon,

1387
01:24:39,479 --> 01:24:43,280
Speaker 1: where for five dollars a month we cover two bonus episodes.

1388
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: You also get access to our over one hundred and

1389
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 1: fifty episodes of back catalog. We've been doing the Matreon

1390
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 1: forever and every month we choose a special silly theme

1391
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: and cover some of your popular requests. This month it

1392
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:02,799
Speaker 1: is John Hughes Bumber, and we're covering John Hughes movies

1393
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 1: that we get a lot of requests for that we

1394
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 1: haven't covered yet, so head on over there. It's a

1395
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: great way to support.

1396
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 3: The show, indeed, and you can grab our merch at

1397
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 3: teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast. You can, Hey,

1398
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 3: why not rate and review us? Give us five nipples

1399
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 3: on whatever podcast platform.

1400
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 2: You use, and uh with.

1401
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 3: That, Jamie, let's use our particular set of skills as Friends,

1402
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 3: uh huh and go hang Out.

1403
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, Bye bye.

1404
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1405
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1406
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1407
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:57,759
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch

1408
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis into special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo.

1409
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 3: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash

1410
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 3: Bechtelcast