WEBVTT - Weirdhouse Cinema: Dragonslayer

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House Cinema,

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<v Speaker 3>we are going to be talking about the nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 3>one fantasy adventure Dragon Slayer. This was a first for me.

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<v Speaker 3>I'd heard about this movie for years. In fact, a

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<v Speaker 3>good friend of mine has long been recommending it. Was

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<v Speaker 3>the first time I ever got to see it, and

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<v Speaker 3>I was mighty impressed. What an event this was.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, This is one too that I've heard about

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<v Speaker 2>for ages, especially in reference to the titular dragon. So

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<v Speaker 2>I knew it was going to have great dragon effects.

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<v Speaker 2>And so It's been on the to watch list for

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<v Speaker 2>a very long time, probably since I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>and I would see promos for it on cable for

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<v Speaker 2>cable viewings of it that I never never got around

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<v Speaker 2>to watching it, and ultimately I think I'm glad that

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<v Speaker 2>I waited. Now. The reason that we ended up selecting

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<v Speaker 2>Dragon Slayer is because, as many of you might have noticed,

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<v Speaker 2>on Monday, there a lot of people got to witness

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<v Speaker 2>a total solar eclipse, and that got us thinking, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we should watch an eclipse movie, And when you start

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<v Speaker 2>looking around for films that feature a total solar eclipse

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<v Speaker 2>in a meaningful way, there's really not a lot to

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<v Speaker 2>choose from, And for my money, it basically comes down

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<v Speaker 2>to two choices. You can do nineteen eighty one's Dragon

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<v Speaker 2>Slayer or you can do nineteen eighty five's Lady Hawk.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, Rob, as much as I can see why you

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<v Speaker 3>would be drawn to Dragon Slayer, I am quite perplexed

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<v Speaker 3>that you picked the non rutger Hower option of the two.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I think Lady Hawk is a fine film too,

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<v Speaker 2>And they're actually actually very interesting films to compare in

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of different ways, because, on one hand, both

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<v Speaker 2>films cast organized religion in a suspicious or antagonistic light.

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<v Speaker 2>Both films immersis in a setting that is supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>feel realistically medieval or dark ages to some extent with it,

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<v Speaker 2>but with at least some magic. In other words, we're

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<v Speaker 2>not dealing with a high fantasy, non Earth world. We're

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<v Speaker 2>not dealing with worlds where magic can just do anything.

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<v Speaker 2>And both films center around a fresh faced protagonist, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course, both films prominently feature a total solar eclipse.

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<v Speaker 3>Hmmm, that's interesting. Now it's been a while since I

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<v Speaker 3>saw a Lady Hawk. I don't even recall what role

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<v Speaker 3>the eclipse plays in the plot, but I do like

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<v Speaker 3>that you bring up the kind of interesting fact that

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<v Speaker 3>they're fantasy movies that seem to be set roughly within

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<v Speaker 3>real history, like I believe we're supposed to interpret the

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<v Speaker 3>or Land, the setting of Dragon Slayer as somewhere within

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<v Speaker 3>post Roman Britain, like say Britain in the six hundred's

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<v Speaker 3>AD or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, that's very much the sense that I got

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<v Speaker 2>from it. It is a world in which magic and

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<v Speaker 2>sort of traditional pagan if you will, beliefs are seeping

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<v Speaker 2>away from the world, just as this new religion of

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<v Speaker 2>Christianity is seeping in. And there's this idea that magic

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<v Speaker 2>can still be potent, but it is uncertain, like magic

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<v Speaker 2>is leaving the world. And this again, this is not

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<v Speaker 2>an everything as possible world of high fantasy magic and

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<v Speaker 2>so legitimate magic in Dragon Slayer shares an uneasy space

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<v Speaker 2>right alongside trickery, right alongside superstition and the teachings of

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<v Speaker 2>this new alien religion that's being brought in by.

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<v Speaker 3>Outsiders and in the end getting all the credit for

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<v Speaker 3>what our good, virtuous pagan magicians do.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. So anyway, Yeah, no shade on Lady Hawk.

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<v Speaker 2>Lady Hawk is a lot of fun. That one is

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<v Speaker 2>a fun adventure film with a compelling romantic curse at

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<v Speaker 2>the center. But Dragon Slayer is its own spectacle. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean this is it's certainly a creature lover's favorite, dazzling

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<v Speaker 2>cinematography and effects, but also I feel like there is

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<v Speaker 2>a lot more to Dragon Slayer than just the creature.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I maybe just had the wrong opinion of

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<v Speaker 2>it for all these years, where I thought that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>it was kind of a creature only flick, like, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna be bored the rest of the time. But

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<v Speaker 2>the monsters impressive, and there are plenty of movies like that,

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<v Speaker 2>and we've probably watched films like that for Weird House before.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as far as the human drama goes in Dragon Slayer,

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<v Speaker 3>I would say I have some mixed thoughts, but they're

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<v Speaker 3>mostly positive. On the downside, I will admit that most

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<v Speaker 3>of the characterizations in this movie are not very deep, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, you're not getting deeply drawn characters. The characters

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<v Speaker 3>are closer to archetypes, but in the immediate scenes they're in,

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<v Speaker 3>I would say often the characters behave in rather interesting

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<v Speaker 3>and unexpected and nuanced ways, Like the villains aren't as

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<v Speaker 3>villainous as you might expect, and you can kind of

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<v Speaker 3>see things from their point of view, and the heroes

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes do things that you wouldn't quite expect from a

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<v Speaker 3>story like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when the characters feel not so deep, it is

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<v Speaker 2>often in a way where you're like, I would like

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<v Speaker 2>to know more about this character. I feel like there's

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<v Speaker 2>more depth here that the movie. You know, it's just

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<v Speaker 2>it's just not a film that's going to explore those

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<v Speaker 2>additional depths. But there's like this feeling that those depths

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<v Speaker 2>are present in this character, Like the characters feel real

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<v Speaker 2>and nuanced enough that it may be there, which is

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<v Speaker 2>not the case with other films that we've talked about. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I do want to mention just a few reviews of note,

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<v Speaker 2>because this film does has long had its supporters and

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<v Speaker 2>its fans. I looked in Weldon's Psychotronic Encyclopedia film and

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<v Speaker 2>this particular write up is by Bob Martin and not Welden,

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<v Speaker 2>but he urges readers and I think this is written

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<v Speaker 2>around the time of its release, not to dismiss it

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<v Speaker 2>as kid stuff just because it's a Disney co production.

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<v Speaker 2>And as quote, it's got true medieval grit.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, this is a rather dark and grimy film.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And you know that maybe doesn't sound as

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<v Speaker 2>impressive now because we had you know, however, many seasons

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<v Speaker 2>of Game of Thrones. Everybody's seen a lot of gritty

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<v Speaker 2>medieval fantasy at this point, but at the time it

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<v Speaker 2>was certainly like a breath of fresh gritty air.

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<v Speaker 3>I suppose I would say it's not as dark as

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<v Speaker 3>Game of Thrones, like there is not the violence in

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<v Speaker 3>it is not as cold as that. But it's a

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<v Speaker 3>good bit darker than your standard fantasy fair certainly in

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's still PG I have to stress now. Roger

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<v Speaker 2>Ebert gave it three stars and raved over the Dragon

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<v Speaker 2>over and also over the Old Wizard and its overall dark,

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<v Speaker 2>grimy tone and look, and he said, here is a

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<v Speaker 2>movie with the courage to be grungy.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, I wonder if this is at all a reaction

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<v Speaker 3>to or maybe not a reaction to, because I think

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<v Speaker 3>it was the same year the movie Excalibur from nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>eighty one, which this has come up on the show before.

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<v Speaker 3>I've still never seen it, but my impression of it

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<v Speaker 3>is that it is just an almost offensively gleaming film.

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<v Speaker 3>Everything is just very polished and shiny and high you know,

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<v Speaker 3>high fantasy veneer. Whereas, yeah, this movie is gross and slimy,

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<v Speaker 3>and a lot of the locations are cramped, dark, dank

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<v Speaker 3>caves and rooms with like weird liquids bubbling in them,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's just like it's just a movie where everybody

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<v Speaker 3>looks like they smell bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Ebert specifically mentioned ex Caliber in that review, because yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>ex Caliber is shiny, super gleaming, blinding armor. But also

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<v Speaker 2>we have to keep in mind that ex Caliber, which

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<v Speaker 2>which I have a lot of fond memories off is

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<v Speaker 2>all is not quite set in the real world. It's

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<v Speaker 2>set in kind of It's set in a mythic world.

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<v Speaker 2>Is a mythic world about Theorian legend, you know, So

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's a maybe just a step or two room

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<v Speaker 2>moved from any kind of realistic, real world, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>magical setting. Now. I mentioned Game of Thrones earlier. George R. R.

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<v Speaker 2>Martin ranked it number five on his top ten fantasy

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<v Speaker 2>movies of all time, just below Lady Hawk, The Wizard

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<v Speaker 2>of Oz, The Princess Bride, and The Lord of the

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<v Speaker 2>Rings trilogy.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, you mean he Raked Dragon Slayer or not excal

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<v Speaker 3>Dragon Slayer.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think ex Caliber made this particular list. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean not that. I mean I could also see him

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<v Speaker 2>being of an ex Caliber fan, because I do remember

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<v Speaker 2>in the books a lot of descriptions of very brightly

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<v Speaker 2>colored armor. It seemed to be very important to him

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure that armor wasn't boring looking. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not boring looking at Excalibur.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, that's interesting. So he placed it behind Lady Hawk.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, I can see these other entries. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>the Wizard of Oz, Yeah, the Lord of the Rings,

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<v Speaker 3>that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Princess Bride. Everybody loves the Princess Bride. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>un understandable. You can find that and just do a

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<v Speaker 2>search for George R. Martin top ten fantasy films and

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<v Speaker 2>you'll easily find the list we're referring to. And then finally,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll say, you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger

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<v Speaker 2>fan of this film than director Giermal del Toro. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>be mentioning several things that he had to say about

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<v Speaker 2>this film and his connections to it as we proceed.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, certainly I can imagine that del Toro is

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<v Speaker 3>here for the dragon. He's like, when do we get

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<v Speaker 3>to the dragon? And this movie really does have an

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<v Speaker 3>amazing dragon, especially for the time it was created. But

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<v Speaker 3>this is an awesome looking dragon, but not just looking.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to stress that what's so great about the

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<v Speaker 3>dragon in this movie is that even before you see it,

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<v Speaker 3>its presence is signaled through you know, different kinds of

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<v Speaker 3>like point of view shots and sound effects and the

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<v Speaker 3>suggestion of it looming out of view in certain scenes

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<v Speaker 3>in a really powerful, ominous way. That is just one

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<v Speaker 3>of the great monster presences in any movie I've ever seen.

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<v Speaker 3>And I really like that the dragon in this movie

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<v Speaker 3>is a monster, is not just a I don't want

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<v Speaker 3>to say just a lot of the dragons were used

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<v Speaker 3>to lately see more of the elegant, intelligent, fantasy dragon variety,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, like almost kind of a higher being. This dragon,

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<v Speaker 3>it might be cunning, but it is. It's not like

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<v Speaker 3>a talking dragon. It's not a nice dragon. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>a noble dragon. This is a nasty, disgusting monster that

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<v Speaker 3>wants human blood.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. Yeah, Yeah, the dragon is amazing. The presentation

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<v Speaker 2>of the dragon is amazing, and I mean not just

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<v Speaker 2>the full blown effects, but like the fine art of

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<v Speaker 2>presenting a monster in a film, of teasing it out

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, early on in the film we don't

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<v Speaker 2>even see it yet. We see instead like carved representations

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<v Speaker 2>of the dragon in these dank, you know, desolate settings

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<v Speaker 2>that set the tone and prepare the imagination for the

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<v Speaker 2>monstrosity to come. All right, In terms of elevator pitches

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<v Speaker 2>for this one, mine is pretty simple. It's look, no

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<v Speaker 2>one likes having to make a yearly blood sacrifice to

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<v Speaker 2>a dragon.

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<v Speaker 3>However, however, what if we did it twice a year.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Like I said, if you come into this just

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<v Speaker 2>for the dragon, you won't be disappointed. But there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of other stuff I think to keep your mind busy,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll get into that as we proceed. Well, let's

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<v Speaker 2>go ahead and listen to some trailer audio here to

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<v Speaker 2>give you a sonic taste of Dragon Slayer.

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<v Speaker 3>That would be witnessed to something someday of consequills to you.

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<v Speaker 3>To me, there's a great task needing to be done. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>don't you've heard about trouble at home?

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<v Speaker 2>A dragon, fire and stench.

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<v Speaker 3>It is evil, pure and simple. Want me to do

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<v Speaker 3>battle with that?

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<v Speaker 2>And behold, for I'm chosen. I shall die a prey bailer.

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<v Speaker 2>Twice a year, the King selects a new victim, chosen

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<v Speaker 2>by lot girls virgins.

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<v Speaker 3>Your kittens made a package with a monster.

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<v Speaker 2>What your children will dying? Only a few because that's

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<v Speaker 2>sound cruel.

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<v Speaker 3>Dragon Slayer coming from Paramount Pictures.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, now, if you want to go out and

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<v Speaker 2>watch Dragonslayer yourself or rewatch it, however you approach it

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<v Speaker 2>before getting into the rest of this episode, well, let

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<v Speaker 2>me tell you this one is widely available. You can

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<v Speaker 2>easily rent or buy it digitally, but I would say

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.160
<v Speaker 2>pay attention to what version you're watching. Get this in

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 2>the highest visual quality possible. We watched it on the

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.200
<v Speaker 2>excellent twenty twenty three Paramount Blu ray, which provides us

0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>with a four K remastered version with Dolby Atmos sound mix,

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>original screen tests if you're into that, A six part

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.080
<v Speaker 2>documentary that is quite good. I watched a couple of

0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>installments of this, dealing with the dragon effects and another

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>aspect of the production, and then also a commentary track

0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 2>by director Matthew Robbins and Dragonslayer Megafan Ghiramel del Tour.

0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 3>I want to hear more about this commentary track because

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.959
<v Speaker 3>I've heard good things about other Del Toro commentary tracks.

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 3>A friend of mine has brought up before that his

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 3>Blade two commentary is is a pretty great listen.

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I definitely did the Blade two commentary track

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.439
<v Speaker 2>back in the day. I think I also did his

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 2>hell Boy commentary track. And I don't do a lot

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 2>of commentary tracks these days. It's just a lot harder

0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.199
<v Speaker 2>to find time for them sometimes. I also think it's

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe not as constructive for the weird house cinema treatment

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 2>to get like really into the weeds on the director's commentary.

0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 2>And not all commentaries from directors or stars and other

0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>people involved in the production are necessarily that great. But

0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 2>del Toro is always worth listening to. But because I mean,

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>he has just such you know, expertise, He has such

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 2>love for cinema and especially horror cinema and monster cinema,

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>and this one is this is really special because I

0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.560
<v Speaker 2>have to stress, this is a film that del Toro

0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.560
<v Speaker 2>had nothing to do with Del Toro was a boy

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 2>when this came out, he was a fan, and he

0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 2>ends up having you know, meaningful connections to director Matthew

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Robbins later on. But yeah, he's he's on this commentary

0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 2>track with the director, you know, out of love for

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 2>the film, out of you know, and I'm also friendship

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 2>with the director, and you know, he's he's asking a

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of really insightful questions about the production and also

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.160
<v Speaker 2>commenting on the things that he really loves in it

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 2>and pointing out some nuances that either might be lost

0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.920
<v Speaker 2>on a first time viewer or a casual viewer, but

0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 2>also maybe or more apparent to a filmmaker as opposed

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to to you know, someone who's just a pure viewer

0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 2>of cinema. Let's go ahead and start talking about the

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>connections here. So yeah, I just mentioned him. Matthew Robbins

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.560
<v Speaker 2>was the director and one of the writers on this

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 2>born nineteen forty five American writer and director, who at

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 2>this point was coming off of a nineteen seventy eight

0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 2>comedy titled Corvette Summer starring Mark Hamill and Annie Potts.

0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.240
<v Speaker 2>He was part of the so called American New Way

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 2>film movement alongside the likes of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg,

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 2>and worked early on, often in uncredited capacities, with both

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 2>directors contributing writing and or ideas for such projects as

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty seven's Electronic Labyrinth THCHX eleven thirty eight four

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 2>eb that's the short film that would become the THCHX

0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:29.200
<v Speaker 2>eleven thirty eight. He had something to do uncredited with

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 2>seventy five Jaws, seventy seven's Close Encounters of the Third Kind,

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.600
<v Speaker 2>and then additionally as a credited screenwriter, he'd written on

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 2>scripts for Spielberg's nineteen seventy four film The Sugarland Express

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and the baseball movie The Bingo Long Traveling All Stars

0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>and Motor Kinks.

0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 3>That's not exactly the background you would expect coming into

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 3>dragons Layer.

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 2>That's right, But you know, dragons play based all to dragons.

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Dragonslayer is another one of these films though, that comes

0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 2>in the aftermath of Star Wars, right, so you know,

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 2>the studios are all hungry for the next Star Wars

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.359
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of you know, directors and writers come

0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.399
<v Speaker 2>along and they're like, well, you know, you're looking for

0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:09.639
<v Speaker 2>the next Star Wars, and it just so happens. I

0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>have the script ready to go.

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 3>Big epic adventure with a young hero who yearns, yearns

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 3>for greatness. Here we go.

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Unfortunately, Dragonslayer was not a commercial success, and afterwards

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.399
<v Speaker 2>Robin's directive Let's see nineteen eighty five's the Legend of

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Billy Jean eighty seven's Batteries Not Included, which he also wrote,

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I have seen that one when I was a kid.

0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.160
<v Speaker 2>That's like little flying robots in it. He also did

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.400
<v Speaker 2>a rad dog movie called Bingo in nineteen ninety one.

0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>He did not write that, he just directed It.

0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.960
<v Speaker 3>Is a rat dog movie, like like Beethoven.

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the dog. I think the dog is wearing sunglasses

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:51.879
<v Speaker 2>on the cover. Like you just look at the poster,

0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:53.879
<v Speaker 2>the box out for this movie. It's like, that's a

0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 2>rat dog movie. That dog's rat.

0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.960
<v Speaker 3>He's gonna wear sunglasses in the movie. Might do some

0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 3>dancing to some rock music, maybe, Robert Palmers on.

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.200
<v Speaker 2>I'd say thirty five percent chance this dog rides a skateboard.

0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 2>That kind of movie, yeah, uh okay. And on the

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.119
<v Speaker 2>screenwriting front, he co wrote nineteen eighty five's Warning Sign,

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.520
<v Speaker 2>but then in nineteen ninety seven, he worked on a

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.840
<v Speaker 2>script for Del Toro's first and nearly his last American picture.

0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.200
<v Speaker 2>According to del Toro, it's the film mimic on this film,

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:27.919
<v Speaker 2>and the filmmaking experience was somewhat compromised by studio interference.

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.440
<v Speaker 2>It led to a very long and ongoing collaborative relationship

0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.240
<v Speaker 2>between Del Toro and Robbins. To date, they've pinned four

0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>produced scripts together, so Mimic twenty tens Don't Be Afraid

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.240
<v Speaker 2>of the Dark, twenty fifteen's Crimson Peak, and twenty twenty

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 2>two's Pinocchio. He's also worked on screenplays for a couple

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 2>of Bollywood films, I believe, and he's still very much

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:52.920
<v Speaker 2>an active screenwriter to this day.

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.879
<v Speaker 3>But he had a co writer on Dragonslayer.

0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, That's right, That's how Barwood born nineteen forty screenwriter

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.359
<v Speaker 2>and director who came up alongside Robins, co wrote a

0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 2>number of scripts with him, including The Sugarland Express, Corvette Summer,

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:11.439
<v Speaker 2>and Warning Signs. Barwood also directed Warning Signs. That was

0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.919
<v Speaker 2>his only feature length film, but he went on to

0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.280
<v Speaker 2>direct and design several video game projects for Lucas Arts

0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 2>and also wrote for them. All Right, now getting into

0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.399
<v Speaker 2>the cast here. This is a dragon movie, but this

0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 2>is also a wizard movie, and we have a pretty

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.200
<v Speaker 2>great wizard in this the Wizard Oldric and a great

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.520
<v Speaker 2>wizard requires a great actor, and boy, they landed one

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.800
<v Speaker 2>for this film with Sir Ralph Richardson.

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 3>He really does well because he can capture the kind

0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:47.919
<v Speaker 3>of humble, befuddled, quaint version of the wizard as just

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.560
<v Speaker 3>an unassuming old man, but he can also come to

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 3>seem quite powerful when the need arises.

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I love how he's able to capture what

0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 2>I think of as the weirdness of wizards, you know,

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:02.840
<v Speaker 2>like I feel like there should be something about a

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 2>wizard that is, you know, just just utterly mysterious and dangerous,

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.760
<v Speaker 2>like this is an individual with with knowledge beyond the

0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.720
<v Speaker 2>common man, and therefore, you know, who knows what's going

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 2>on in that mind of his.

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.199
<v Speaker 3>Part of any great wizard is that it's not just

0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.159
<v Speaker 3>that they're powerful, but that you are not permitted to

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.000
<v Speaker 3>know how powerful they are.

0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Right right, So Richardson does a great job with that.

0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.679
<v Speaker 2>He's also to convey able to convey this kind of

0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 2>melancholy almost sadness of like this aging master, you know

0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.360
<v Speaker 2>who still has his powers that is disposable, but he's

0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.600
<v Speaker 2>very much in decline, just as magic is leaving the world.

0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.199
<v Speaker 2>Like this is a very old man who is not

0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:47.440
<v Speaker 2>long for this world either.

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.439
<v Speaker 3>I mean quite explicitly portrayed as someone who, you know,

0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.560
<v Speaker 3>if he'd stuck around a few more years, might have

0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 3>been burned at the stake by the newly converted Christians

0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.920
<v Speaker 3>in the village right now.

0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.240
<v Speaker 2>I should point out that on the commentary track, Robinson

0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.760
<v Speaker 2>del Toro point out, you know, they certainly talk about

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.639
<v Speaker 2>his craft and how good he isn't like utilizing props

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.960
<v Speaker 2>such as the knife. We'll talk about the knife in

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 2>a bit. They talk about it how utterly piercing his

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 2>eyes are in many of these scenes. He's quite a

0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.800
<v Speaker 2>screen presence. But they say, like a lot of that

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 2>weird energy has is also legitimate, Like he's like a

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 2>delightfully weird person. He apparently kept a pet rat in

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.960
<v Speaker 2>his pocket the whole time on set, a pet rat

0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.879
<v Speaker 2>named Ratty, and he would take him out between takes

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 2>solid wizard move.

0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 3>How did he not talk the rat into getting screen time.

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 2>He's a consummate professional. Yeah, the consummate professional knows that

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 2>the rat is here for emotional support and friendship. But

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:52.960
<v Speaker 2>you're not gonna like shoehorn him into the scene.

0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.879
<v Speaker 3>The rat provides rat magic, whether you see it or not.

0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:00.119
<v Speaker 2>Right right, So yes, sir, Sir. Ralph Richardson You know.

0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Nineteen oh two through nineteen eighty three legendary English actor

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.120
<v Speaker 2>of Stage and screen, two time Oscar nominee. His dramatic

0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 2>credits include such films as nineteen forty nine The Heiress,

0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.720
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty five's Richard the Third, sixty five's Doctor Chivago,

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.280
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen seventy seven's Jesus of Nazareth. But he's equally

0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.359
<v Speaker 2>celebrated for his late career fantasy and sci fi work,

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 2>appearing in nineteen seventy three's Frankenstein The True Story, seventy

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.320
<v Speaker 2>five's Rollerball, nineteen eighty one's Time Bandits, and nineteen eighty

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.080
<v Speaker 2>four's I Always Forget that this film's title is so long,

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.399
<v Speaker 2>but Grace Stoke the legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes.

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 3>Wait, is that the Christoph Lambert Tarzan?

0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:40.320
<v Speaker 2>It is? Yeah?

0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 3>And in Time band It's this Ralph Richardson play God.

0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I believe he does. Yeah. My memory of Time Bandits

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.560
<v Speaker 2>is a little fraid I really need to revisit it.

0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 3>I believe it's David Warner as the Devil and Ralph

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:58.600
<v Speaker 3>Richardson as God. Let's look it up. Well, his character

0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.840
<v Speaker 3>is called Supreme Be but yes, I think he's supposed

0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.159
<v Speaker 3>to be God. He arrives at the end of the

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:07.920
<v Speaker 3>movie after Evil has been defeated, and he's just sort

0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:12.680
<v Speaker 3>of this tidy business like a British man with a

0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 3>dry sense of humor.

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 2>All right, So that's our wizard, and more on the

0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Wizards as we proceed here. But we also have an apprentice.

0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.440
<v Speaker 2>The Sorcerer's apprentice in this film is the character Galen,

0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.359
<v Speaker 2>played by Peter McNichol born nineteen fifty four.

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.880
<v Speaker 3>You know, I think before this I mainly knew him

0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:32.520
<v Speaker 3>as Janosh from Ghostbusters Too.

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:35.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think if you know him from nothing else,

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.480
<v Speaker 2>it is from Ghostbusters Too, where he's the guy constantly

0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.680
<v Speaker 2>singing the praises of Vigo the Karpathian.

0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:44.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah he is Vego, Yeah.

0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Which is you know, a wonderful, you know, comedic performance

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>in that. And I think he's had a number of

0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 2>really sort of out there comedic performances throughout his career.

0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.160
<v Speaker 2>He's had a very rich career on stage, screen and TV.

0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.880
<v Speaker 2>This was his first film role, coming off of theater work,

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.639
<v Speaker 2>but he debuted on Broadway the same year in Crimes

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 2>of the Heart. He followed up Dragon Slayer with a

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.760
<v Speaker 2>role in nineteen eighty two Sophie's Choice, and subsequent films

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 2>include nineteen ninety three's Adams Family Values and nineteen ninety

0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 2>five's Dracula Dead and Loving It. That Is, of Course

0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Is That? Of Course is a comedy starring what Leslie

0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Nielsen is Dracula and McNichol plays the Wrenfield character in that.

0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh, It's got a w Renfield in it. I don't

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:27.719
<v Speaker 3>think I've ever seen that one? But why do I?

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.679
<v Speaker 3>Why do I think of it as a comedy adaptation

0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:34.240
<v Speaker 3>of Dracula that hughes way closer to the original story

0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:35.000
<v Speaker 3>than it needs to.

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 2>That may be great. I believe I saw this when

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I was younger, but I just vaguely remember a few

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:44.760
<v Speaker 2>gags from it. A lot of people will also recognize

0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:48.200
<v Speaker 2>McNichol from TV. He was a cast member on Ali McBeal,

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:51.360
<v Speaker 2>and his other TV credits include Tales from the Crypt.

0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:55.159
<v Speaker 2>He was in one of Russell McKay's episodes. He was

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.400
<v Speaker 2>on twenty four, he was on Veep, and he's also

0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 2>done a fair amount of voice acting, including voic seeing

0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 2>the Mad Hatter in the Arkham Asylum Games.

0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Now, I think McNichol does quite well with the young

0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:08.720
<v Speaker 3>hero role in this movie. But when I mentioned earlier

0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:12.920
<v Speaker 3>that a lot of the major characters don't seem especially deep,

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.639
<v Speaker 3>he's I sort of had the main character here in mind,

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:21.879
<v Speaker 3>like he we don't ever really know why he wants

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.480
<v Speaker 3>anything that he wants. And I'm not complaining too much

0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 3>because I still love dragons Layer, you know, It's not

0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:31.400
<v Speaker 3>something that prevented me from enjoying the film. But he's

0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:34.879
<v Speaker 3>to be generous, as you said earlier, maybe a character

0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:37.440
<v Speaker 3>who generates more questions than he answers.

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, there are times where I find myself wondering, well,

0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 2>why is he making this choice? Why does he want

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 2>this thing that he seems to want? And Yeah, and

0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:51.360
<v Speaker 2>it seems to be a common analysis of the film

0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 2>based on some of the reviews I was looking at.

0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 2>But like you, I do like mcnickel in the role.

0:25:56.840 --> 0:25:59.800
<v Speaker 2>He has this kind of weird cherubic quality. He feels

0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:03.159
<v Speaker 2>more like a nerd hero as opposed to like a

0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of you know, sex appeal teen heart throb kind

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:10.480
<v Speaker 2>of a character. Though I do love the idea of

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:14.159
<v Speaker 2>eighties teens with like heart dotted Peter McNichol posters on

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 2>their walls.

0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 3>I feel like he's decently handsome in this film.

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, Yeah, I mean it's it's a major motion picture.

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:22.800
<v Speaker 2>He's he's plenty handsome.

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:25.160
<v Speaker 3>But but yes, i'd see what you're saying. I mean,

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:27.520
<v Speaker 3>he's not like a like a muscle bound go get

0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:29.959
<v Speaker 3>her hero. He's, you know, he's a little bit apprehensive,

0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.480
<v Speaker 3>though he's also brave, but he's Yeah, he's closer to

0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:34.919
<v Speaker 3>nerd than Jock, definitely.

0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:37.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think that that does make him more endearing. Like,

0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't think this character would have worked as well,

0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:43.439
<v Speaker 2>especially given maybe some of the limitations we were talking about,

0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.520
<v Speaker 2>if some of one of the other sort of flavors

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:48.399
<v Speaker 2>of the day or hot up and coming talents had

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 2>played him, Like, for instance, I read that Eric Roberts

0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:53.080
<v Speaker 2>was considered for the part. Oh and I think Eric

0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Roberts is quite excellent in some of the millions of

0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.439
<v Speaker 2>films that he's done, But that would have been an

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 2>entirely different Dragons player, even like nineteen eighty nineteen eighty

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 2>one Eric Roberts, it would have been a different flavor.

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I got sidetracked just because I started thinking about

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:10.879
<v Speaker 3>actors that have been in too many movies, and I

0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 3>was like, what if it had been Udo Kierre or

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:16.360
<v Speaker 3>John Carodine.

0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I was thinking. I was thinking that Eric

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Roberts is kind of the John Karrodine of our time.

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 2>All Right, so we're here, We're still on Team Wizard here,

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:25.000
<v Speaker 2>and the Old Wizard has a retainer by the name

0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 2>of Hodge, and he's a familiar face because he is

0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:31.280
<v Speaker 2>played by Sidney Bromley, who lived nineteen oh nine through

0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:35.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty seven, a British character actor who we've talked

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:37.200
<v Speaker 2>about on the show before because he was in nineteen

0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:39.399
<v Speaker 2>eighty four is the never Ending Story in which he

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:41.800
<v Speaker 2>played the Nome scientist in gy Wok.

0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:45.439
<v Speaker 3>In that does he basically use the same voice in

0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:46.280
<v Speaker 3>both movies?

0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:49.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think so, that's what I say. Voice,

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:53.080
<v Speaker 2>same beard, same kind of like general. Well, I mean

0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>he's ratcheting up that demeanor and never ending story because

0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 2>he's playing this kind of outrageous Gnome character. But still,

0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean he's he's very much a character actor. I

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:03.840
<v Speaker 2>get the impression, like you hire Sidney Bromley, like you

0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 2>want certain things.

0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, but in both cases he's very much like yo,

0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:09.560
<v Speaker 3>she surely.

0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Enough, exactly. Yeah. His other credits include sixty two's Night Creatures,

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.920
<v Speaker 2>sixty seven is The Fearless Vampire Killers, the excellent nineteen

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:21.119
<v Speaker 2>seventy one adaptation of Macbeth, nineteen eighty one's An American

0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Werewolf in London, and nineteen eighty six as Pirates.

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:26.199
<v Speaker 3>Oh what is he in? Werewolf in London? Is just

0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:27.280
<v Speaker 3>one of the guys in the pub.

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>I think he's one of the pub guys. Yeah, I

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 2>don't specifically remember him, but I mean that's that's where

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 2>he has to be. That that makes the most sense.

0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Or he's like a street person that the werewolf kills

0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:42.280
<v Speaker 2>in London, like that would be the two main candidates here,

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 2>but I don't remember.

0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 3>But Hodge is a lovable old grump like he spends

0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 3>most of his screen time complaining, but he's it's quite

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:51.360
<v Speaker 3>sad when he is killed.

0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, all right. We also have a heroin in this picture,

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:58.719
<v Speaker 2>and that is the character of Valerian, played by Caitlin Clark,

0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:01.200
<v Speaker 2>not to be confused with a basketball star of the

0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:04.120
<v Speaker 2>same name whose name is all over the news right

0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:08.960
<v Speaker 2>now for basketball reasons. But this is the actor Kaitlin Clark,

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:11.440
<v Speaker 2>who lived nineteen fifty two through two thousand and four.

0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 3>Right, So she plays the character who kind of sets

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:17.120
<v Speaker 3>the whole plot in motion right by by seeking out

0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 3>the advice and counsel of a wizard in defeating the dragon.

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:24.240
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Yeah, she's the one who arrives on the

0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:27.920
<v Speaker 2>scene and is like, Hey, we need help with our dragon.

0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 2>And it's a really interesting character because and this is

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 2>I think a prime example of a character that I

0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 2>ultimately wanted to know more about. Like I feel like

0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:41.200
<v Speaker 2>there's ultimately unexplored depth here that, you know, depth that

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:44.440
<v Speaker 2>we just got to get a hint of in many scenes,

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:46.320
<v Speaker 2>but you want to know more about.

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think when I said that the characters could

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 3>have been deeper, I mainly had these two main roles

0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:55.680
<v Speaker 3>in mind, Peter mcnichol's character in Kaitlyn Clark's character. But yeah,

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:59.400
<v Speaker 3>she's interesting because she when we first meet her in

0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:03.760
<v Speaker 3>the movie, her character is disguised as a boy and

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:06.680
<v Speaker 3>we learn that she has had to spend her whole

0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 3>life whenever she was in public so far disguised as

0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 3>a boy in order to avoid being drafted into the

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.960
<v Speaker 3>potential lottery to become dragon food, which all the girls

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:18.920
<v Speaker 3>of her village.

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Were yeah, yeah, And then ultimately we see her, you know,

0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.360
<v Speaker 2>it seems like she has the opportunity to live openly

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:30.320
<v Speaker 2>again as herself, but then plans change and so yeah,

0:30:30.360 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 2>it just left me wanting more exploration of this character.

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.000
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, Clark came out of the theater scene and

0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>this was her first feature film as well, followed by

0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:46.320
<v Speaker 2>sporadic TV work occasional small roles in such films as

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:49.120
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty six As Crocodile Dundee nineteen ninety four is

0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Blown Away. She remained more active in theater and later

0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 2>as a theater instructor. Now her father in this who's

0:30:56.760 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 2>just credited as the character's name, is just Valarian's father,

0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:03.040
<v Speaker 2>and he was played by Imres James, who lived nineteen

0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight through nineteen eighty nine, a Welsh Shakespearean actor,

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 2>probably best known for this film. His credits include a

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:12.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of Shakespearean theater and British television, including Sherlock Holmes,

0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Who, and Hammer House of Horror. In fact, we

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:19.440
<v Speaker 2>have discussed the episode of Hammer House of Horror that

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 2>he acted in in Stuff to Blow Your Mind episode

0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Halloween episode Anthology of Horror that we did. That's the

0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:28.320
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty episode The Mark of Satan.

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh, yeah, that was a creepy one where we talked

0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:36.920
<v Speaker 3>about like the evil mind control virus theme of that episode.

0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 3>I was looking at the screenshot you showed me of

0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:41.440
<v Speaker 3>him in that episode and I think he might have

0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:46.640
<v Speaker 3>been playing like the coroner or something. But in Dragon

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 3>Slayer he plays Yeah, Valerian's father, who you know. He's

0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:55.720
<v Speaker 3>a very like, strong, kind, sturdy, friendly presence, and he

0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:59.560
<v Speaker 3>takes it quite well that his daughter seems to have

0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:02.400
<v Speaker 3>fallen in love with one of the last pagan wizards

0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:03.040
<v Speaker 3>in the country.

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's very supportive and very protective. So yeah, fine,

0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 2>fine character, so old performance. Oh but now let's get

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:18.920
<v Speaker 2>to the royal family of the area, starting with the king.

0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:23.959
<v Speaker 2>The King Casadorus Rex played by Peter Air born nineteen

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:27.080
<v Speaker 2>forty two. He is a practical ruler for dark times.

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:29.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I think practical is a good word for him

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.480
<v Speaker 3>because and this will come up even more so with

0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:34.360
<v Speaker 3>I think the next character we're going to talk about,

0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 3>But he is While you would say that he sort

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 3>of fills the role of a villain in the plot,

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:44.960
<v Speaker 3>he's not really all that villainous. He does some kind

0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:49.320
<v Speaker 3>of bad or sneaky things, but he ultimately is shown

0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 3>to be quite quite practical and quite you know, sympathetic

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 3>in many ways.

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:58.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think he's a pretty nuanced character, and then

0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:01.400
<v Speaker 2>the performance is quite nice instead, So we don't get

0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 2>like a cartoon tyrant. We don't get a comical coward here,

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.080
<v Speaker 2>but rather a rational ruler who has made some morally

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:13.320
<v Speaker 2>questionable and at times hypocritical choices in order to maintain

0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:16.239
<v Speaker 2>the status quo, in order to I think it very

0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.240
<v Speaker 2>much in his mind as he discusses to keep the

0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>peace and to keep everything, to maintain stability. And if

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:28.920
<v Speaker 2>that means yeah, feeding a woman to a dragon every year,

0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:31.080
<v Speaker 2>well that's just what you have to do. It's what

0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>we've done. It seems to be working. Let's not shake

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:38.680
<v Speaker 2>the boat, right. Peter Air probably best known for this film,

0:33:38.840 --> 0:33:41.640
<v Speaker 2>but his extensive credits include nineteen nineties, Mountains of the

0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Moon ninety twos, Orlando ninety threes The Remains of the

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Day in two thousand and ones from Hell, alongside such

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:51.200
<v Speaker 2>TV shows as The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles in Rome.

0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:55.360
<v Speaker 3>He's got some interesting facial hair choices.

0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, they dress them up nicely for this. Now,

0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:02.920
<v Speaker 2>his daughter in this picture is Princess Alsbeth, played by

0:34:03.040 --> 0:34:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Chloe Salomon. So this is the king's noble and idealistic daughter.

0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:10.239
<v Speaker 2>More on her in a bit. But the actor here

0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:13.040
<v Speaker 2>a British actor with extensive TV and stage roles, though

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:15.799
<v Speaker 2>this was her biggest film, and interestingly enough, this is

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Alec Guinness's niece.

0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:19.280
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I had no idea.

0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:21.720
<v Speaker 2>So in many ways she's the heart and moral compass

0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:26.040
<v Speaker 2>of the film. But that doesn't necessarily bode well for her.

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would say her character's fate was one of

0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:33.560
<v Speaker 3>the biggest surprises of the movie. Got incredibly grim there

0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:33.879
<v Speaker 3>for a.

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 2>Bit, all right. Now back to the sort of the

0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:40.800
<v Speaker 2>villain realm are sort of villains and shades of gray.

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Here we have the character Tyrian, and this is the

0:34:44.600 --> 0:34:50.279
<v Speaker 2>King's main enforcer, a cold man but also a practical

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 2>man of the sword.

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So the same thing I said about the King

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:57.400
<v Speaker 3>I think applies to his character, but even more so

0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:00.880
<v Speaker 3>he's he is I would say, the human villain of

0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.920
<v Speaker 3>the movie. But I kept waiting for him to do

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:11.320
<v Speaker 3>something more overtly villainous, more absolutely selfish, but he really doesn't.

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.120
<v Speaker 3>Unless there's something I'm forgiving, I don't think he ever

0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:17.760
<v Speaker 3>really does something overtly all that selfish. Instead, it seems

0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:21.319
<v Speaker 3>like he has a view about what would be the

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:24.080
<v Speaker 3>best way to protect the people of the kingdom, and

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.080
<v Speaker 3>he is following through on that view.

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean there is one murder. Oh well, there's

0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:31.759
<v Speaker 2>more than one murder, but there's there's one that's particularly

0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:34.239
<v Speaker 2>cold blood. Well, we can get into that. And when

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:34.759
<v Speaker 2>we get into that.

0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:36.600
<v Speaker 3>It is cold blooded, but it is part of his

0:35:36.680 --> 0:35:38.400
<v Speaker 3>strategy for protecting his people.

0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 2>That's right.

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.160
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying murders, okay, I'm just saying, like, you

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 3>never end up seeing him doing something where he's just like, oh,

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:47.680
<v Speaker 3>trying to grab all the gold and take it away

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:48.840
<v Speaker 3>for himself or something.

0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Right. He makes some good points, as we'll get into.

0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.520
<v Speaker 2>But this character is played by John Hallam who lived

0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty one through two thousand and six. We've actually

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:02.200
<v Speaker 2>talked to him on the show before because He played Luro,

0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:06.320
<v Speaker 2>the second in command Hawkman, in nineteen eighty one's Flash Gordon,

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:09.640
<v Speaker 2>which means he was very hard to focus on since

0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:12.280
<v Speaker 2>he was almost always in a scene with Brian Blessed.

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:14.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, how could you even see him?

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:18.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Like, basically he's the other Hawkman that's not Brian Blessed,

0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:23.000
<v Speaker 2>and that is somewhat less loud. His other credits include

0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:27.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy one's The Last Valley with Michael Caine, Nicholas

0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and Alexandria from the same year, nineteen seventy three is

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:33.600
<v Speaker 2>the Wickerman, eighty five's Life Force, Oh eighty five, Santa

0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Claus the Movie, and nineteen ninety one's Robin Hood Prince

0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:37.360
<v Speaker 2>of Thieves.

0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:40.000
<v Speaker 3>It's a lot of movies I've seen and I don't

0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:43.560
<v Speaker 3>remember what he was in any of them.

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Let's see and one more cast member I want to

0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:50.680
<v Speaker 2>mention here, and that is this, I guess you would.

0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:53.719
<v Speaker 2>He's kind of a like a missionary, a Christian, an

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:57.600
<v Speaker 2>outsider that has brought Christianity to the local realm. Here.

0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Brother jacopis here and he is played by Ian McDermot

0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:06.759
<v Speaker 2>born nineteen forty five. So yes, the man who would

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:11.160
<v Speaker 2>become Emperor Palpatine seen here in a small but solid part.

0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:13.440
<v Speaker 3>Right, So he is the person who shows up at

0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:15.840
<v Speaker 3>the village to tell them the good news of Jesus

0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Christ and to inform them that the dragon is not

0:37:18.560 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 3>a dragon but is Lucifer incarnate. And then he just

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:22.720
<v Speaker 3>gets like blasted with fire.

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so instead of like twinkling depths of decrepit evil,

0:37:27.680 --> 0:37:31.319
<v Speaker 2>we get reckless religious fanaticism. And in the process, I

0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:33.680
<v Speaker 2>think we do get some hints of the tools, the

0:37:33.760 --> 0:37:37.439
<v Speaker 2>acting tools he'd employ in his performances of Palpatine over

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the decades to come. But yeah, great tremendous actor in

0:37:41.600 --> 0:37:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Star Wars and out of Star Wars. Outside of the

0:37:44.040 --> 0:37:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Star Wars franchise, his credits include nineteen eighties The Awakening,

0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:51.760
<v Speaker 2>eighty three's Gorky Park, eighty eight Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, nineteen

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:56.520
<v Speaker 2>ninety five's Restoration in nineteen ninety nine Sleepy Hollow. All right, now,

0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 2>going behind the scenes here, we don't always call out

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:02.880
<v Speaker 2>the cinemaographer on a picture, but we absolutely have to

0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:07.080
<v Speaker 2>hear because the cinematography in this film is amazing and

0:38:07.160 --> 0:38:11.160
<v Speaker 2>it is by a legend in the business. Derek Van

0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Lint who lived nineteen thirty two through twenty ten.

0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:19.440
<v Speaker 3>I agree, this is a fantastic looking movie, and in

0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.239
<v Speaker 3>all of its different ways. I liked that there's a

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:25.920
<v Speaker 3>lot of visual contrast in the sets and the settings,

0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:31.799
<v Speaker 3>Like you're constantly going back and forth between environments that

0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:36.320
<v Speaker 3>are cramped and claustrophobic and slimy and ugly and suggest

0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:40.360
<v Speaker 3>hell to and then going from there to beautiful open

0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:44.160
<v Speaker 3>vistas and mountain landscapes and valleys and running water and

0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:48.160
<v Speaker 3>all that. There is a there's a pleasing sort of

0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:50.759
<v Speaker 3>rhythm of images, and I like that.

0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, come as no surprise, I think to a lot

0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 2>of people that his other main cinematography credit in feature

0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:02.359
<v Speaker 2>film is for nineteen seventy nine's Alien, and I think

0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:07.200
<v Speaker 2>you'd definitely see that in comparing like the caves environments

0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:11.160
<v Speaker 2>and even the other interior environments that we explore in

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:13.880
<v Speaker 2>this film, comparing those to the you know, like the

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.239
<v Speaker 2>alien planet in Aliens, or just the depths of the Nostromo.

0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:23.720
<v Speaker 2>But the curious thing is that outside of mostly dragons

0:39:23.840 --> 0:39:27.719
<v Speaker 2>Layer and Alien, he worked mostly on commercials for Canadian TV.

0:39:28.120 --> 0:39:32.000
<v Speaker 2>He was a Canadian. You know, there's and I couldn't

0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:34.480
<v Speaker 2>find a complete list of everything he worked on, but

0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:37.360
<v Speaker 2>he did like an Atari twenty six hundred commercial for

0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Activision's Pitfall two and yeah, so not a lot of credits.

0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:44.600
<v Speaker 2>But even then, from what I've read, he was highly

0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 2>influential within the business and actually turned down work on

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:53.480
<v Speaker 2>subsequent big film projects with Ridley Scott and others. He

0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:57.520
<v Speaker 2>directed a single feature link film himself the year two thousands,

0:39:57.600 --> 0:40:01.279
<v Speaker 2>The Spreading Ground starring Dennis Hopper, which was also co

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:02.760
<v Speaker 2>written by Mark Berman.

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:04.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I haven't seen.

0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:06.520
<v Speaker 2>That so anyway, He's one of the many reasons you

0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:09.160
<v Speaker 2>should definitely see this film in the best quality possible

0:40:10.000 --> 0:40:12.120
<v Speaker 2>in a nice dark room, good TV.

0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:13.719
<v Speaker 3>It looks fantastic.

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Now. The composer on this film is another legend in

0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the business, and that's Alex North, who lived nineteen ten

0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:24.880
<v Speaker 2>through nineteen ninety one American composer and fifteen time Academy

0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Award nominee. His most famous scores include those for nineteen

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:30.759
<v Speaker 2>fifty two as a Streetcar named Desire and Death of

0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 2>a Salesman nineteen fifty six is Unchained That's where We

0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Get Unchained, Melody nineteen sixty one, Spartacus sixty four is

0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Cleopatra eighty five's Under the Volcano. He completed a score

0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:44.840
<v Speaker 2>for two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey, but Kubert

0:40:44.960 --> 0:40:48.840
<v Speaker 2>rejected it in favor of a needle drop classical music score,

0:40:49.280 --> 0:40:54.600
<v Speaker 2>and I'm to understand he actually reused some material from

0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:58.560
<v Speaker 2>the two thousand and one project in this film. Hmm. Now.

0:40:58.560 --> 0:41:02.520
<v Speaker 2>He received an OSCAR nomination for Dragon Slayer, but lost

0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.240
<v Speaker 2>out to Vangelists for his work on Chariots of Fire.

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:09.640
<v Speaker 2>John Williams was also nominated that year for Raiders. But

0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Charots of Fire is an all timer, so

0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:14.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you got to lose to Chariots of Fire,

0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:15.800
<v Speaker 2>it's perfectly fine.

0:41:16.040 --> 0:41:19.040
<v Speaker 3>I think the music in Dragon Slayer works quite well,

0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:21.600
<v Speaker 3>especially right at the beginning of the movie. There's it's

0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:24.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, classic dark fantasy opening opens with like a

0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:29.040
<v Speaker 3>black screen and these just lead heavy horns really working

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:33.520
<v Speaker 3>the brass section. It's dark, deep, ominous. It's really good.

0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, highly effective. All right. Now, this is a special

0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:41.560
<v Speaker 2>effects movie. This is this is got This has tremendous

0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:43.560
<v Speaker 2>special effects and we're not going to be able to

0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:48.040
<v Speaker 2>do complete justice to them here. But the dragon does

0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:51.480
<v Speaker 2>not play himself. This was the work of a vast

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:56.440
<v Speaker 2>industrial light and magic crew featuring such names as Dennis Murran,

0:41:56.560 --> 0:42:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Phil Tippett, Ken Ralston and Brian Johnson. The film was

0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 2>nominated for a Special Effects OSCAR that year, but lost

0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:07.200
<v Speaker 2>out too. The only other nominee, which was also an

0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:12.120
<v Speaker 2>ILM project, Raiders of the Lost Arc. This film so

0:42:12.320 --> 0:42:15.080
<v Speaker 2>they used various methods to bring the dragon to life.

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:19.040
<v Speaker 2>The film makes use of the Go Motion system to

0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 2>create realistic motion blur and smooth character articulation for the dragon,

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:27.440
<v Speaker 2>as well as related miniature elements, and according to ILM

0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:30.320
<v Speaker 2>on their website, the film inspired the development of the

0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Go Motion system. I think Tippet had previously employed some

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:35.719
<v Speaker 2>of the techniques on The Empire Strikes Back, but this

0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:39.200
<v Speaker 2>was a big Go motion picture and if you want

0:42:39.239 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 2>more details on what that consists of, again, I highly

0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 2>recommend the making of documentary that is on the Blu ray.

0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:51.520
<v Speaker 3>I was curious about how they achieved the shots of

0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:56.799
<v Speaker 3>the dragon moving because it does look unlike really any

0:42:56.840 --> 0:43:00.000
<v Speaker 3>other special effects shots of that type, I can think,

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 3>and it looks wonderful.

0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's the So these different types of

0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:08.600
<v Speaker 2>effects obviously see have large scale pneumatic limbs you got

0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:12.000
<v Speaker 2>a large scale heads stop motion go motion miniatures, flying

0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:13.960
<v Speaker 2>miniatures that are brought to life in a very kind

0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:18.359
<v Speaker 2>of like Star Wars spaceship fashion, and then puppetry, flamethrowers

0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:21.480
<v Speaker 2>and so forth. But I imagine the scenes you're thinking

0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:25.600
<v Speaker 2>of are particularly like the crawling around the cave sequences,

0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and I believe that what we're talking about here are

0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:31.600
<v Speaker 2>those go motion sequences that Phil tip It was in

0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:35.040
<v Speaker 2>charge of, and indeed these are just just so magical.

0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:38.480
<v Speaker 2>It just absolutely feels alive. I Mean, there's a reason

0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:41.360
<v Speaker 2>that del Toro himself says like this, not only is

0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:43.759
<v Speaker 2>this the best dragon that had ever been done, this

0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:45.720
<v Speaker 2>is the best dragon that has ever been done.

0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:49.560
<v Speaker 3>In cinema still to this day. Yeah, I don't know.

0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:51.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what I would think was better.

0:43:51.960 --> 0:43:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean even I've read other productions talking about

0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:59.800
<v Speaker 2>their dragon and it's like they oftentimes acknowledge the DNA

0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Dragon Slayer in what they do. You know, it's like, well,

0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 2>we looked at Dragonslayer, we looked at what worked, and

0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 2>we tried to build off of that.

0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:18.560
<v Speaker 3>All right, are you ready to talk about the plot.

0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Let's dive in.

0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.239
<v Speaker 3>So we begin in darkness, as I said earlier, with

0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:27.000
<v Speaker 3>those the heavy, scary kind of horn melodies playing. And

0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:30.200
<v Speaker 3>then eventually, out of the blackness we see a burning

0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:34.239
<v Speaker 3>torch emerge, and then there's another and another, and the

0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 3>picture kind of differentiates from just pure black into an

0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:41.879
<v Speaker 3>indigo nighttime sky in the background, and then the dark

0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:45.720
<v Speaker 3>shapes of dead trees in the foreground. So a group

0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:48.480
<v Speaker 3>of people are making their way across the hillside by

0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:52.640
<v Speaker 3>torchlight in the dead of night. And then somewhere else

0:44:52.680 --> 0:44:55.680
<v Speaker 3>we see an old man in a dim cave like room,

0:44:55.800 --> 0:45:00.120
<v Speaker 3>surrounded by arcane instruments, engaged in magic and alchemy, and

0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:03.320
<v Speaker 3>he sort of waves a fire of sorcery into existence

0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:05.840
<v Speaker 3>in a metal bowl and then stares into the flame

0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:09.360
<v Speaker 3>like he's divining a scene from elsewhere or from the future,

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:13.440
<v Speaker 3>and we hear screams and the sound of metal clashing violence,

0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 3>all this echoing in his mind. And then the party

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:19.880
<v Speaker 3>we saw traveling by night, they arrive at the heavy

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:23.800
<v Speaker 3>door of a hilltop castle and they knock and somebody

0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:27.319
<v Speaker 3>answers the door. I believe it's Hodge. Here are sort

0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.719
<v Speaker 3>of like a strange old man, and he tries to

0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 3>turn them away, but we learned that this is the

0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 3>dwelling of Ulrich of Kraganmore. He says, yes, you've come

0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:40.239
<v Speaker 3>a long way, Yes, your business is urgent, it does

0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:43.600
<v Speaker 3>not matter. He sees no one, and there's grumbling from

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 3>within the party. They are being led by a young

0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:48.920
<v Speaker 3>man named a Valerian, and some of the unhappy travelers

0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:51.759
<v Speaker 3>are like what now, boy. In fact, I think it's

0:45:51.880 --> 0:45:54.439
<v Speaker 3>the guy who's going to later convert to Christianity that's

0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:58.080
<v Speaker 3>being really grumpy. But eventually they get led inside the

0:45:58.120 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 3>castle and the master of the castle is the great

0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:05.080
<v Speaker 3>wizard Ulric of Kragnmore, and he has foreseen that he

0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 3>must meet with them. He also tells his young apprentice Galen,

0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:13.359
<v Speaker 3>that he foresees his own death and matters that will

0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:17.239
<v Speaker 3>be of great importance to Galen as well. We learned

0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:20.319
<v Speaker 3>that Galen is an eager young student. He wants to

0:46:21.200 --> 0:46:23.319
<v Speaker 3>Basically what he wants more than anything else in the

0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 3>world is to become mighty in the ways of sorcery.

0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:28.759
<v Speaker 3>But he is still learning. And then we get to

0:46:28.800 --> 0:46:32.040
<v Speaker 3>the scene where Ulric comes out to meet the travelers,

0:46:32.080 --> 0:46:33.960
<v Speaker 3>and I thought this was really funny. I love the

0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 3>use of what you might call diegetic special effects in

0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:42.399
<v Speaker 3>this scene. So you know, in many cases you might

0:46:42.440 --> 0:46:45.920
<v Speaker 3>say that the mechanisms of special effects are non diegetic

0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:49.239
<v Speaker 3>because they're just supposed to appear on screen as if

0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:52.600
<v Speaker 3>they are representing some kind of real magic. But here,

0:46:52.680 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 3>as Ulrich comes out to meet the guests, Galen is

0:46:56.239 --> 0:46:59.960
<v Speaker 3>like shaking some sheet metal to generate a sound of thunder,

0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:03.319
<v Speaker 3>and then he throws exploding powder on the floor to

0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:06.360
<v Speaker 3>create a flash of light and smoke as Elrick enters

0:47:06.360 --> 0:47:08.520
<v Speaker 3>the room, so it's like he's still sort of got

0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:12.080
<v Speaker 3>the sorcery training wheels on, you know, he's like using

0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:13.120
<v Speaker 3>these materials.

0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:17.799
<v Speaker 2>It also reminded me a bit of some of the themes

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:20.360
<v Speaker 2>they're explored in The Last Unicorn, like the idea of

0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:22.640
<v Speaker 2>having to put a like a fake horn on a

0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:25.920
<v Speaker 2>real unicorn so that normal people could see it, like

0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:29.200
<v Speaker 2>a we're living in a world here where magic is

0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:33.360
<v Speaker 2>leaving the world, there's less magic available, but also legitimate

0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:35.839
<v Speaker 2>sorcery as we see it in the film has kind

0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:38.799
<v Speaker 2>of like this kind of subtle quality to it, and

0:47:38.840 --> 0:47:41.879
<v Speaker 2>there's kind of the sense that just normal folk might

0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.840
<v Speaker 2>miss it, they might not understand what they're seeing. So

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:47.080
<v Speaker 2>perhaps you've got to spice things up a little bit

0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:49.920
<v Speaker 2>with some stage effects and so forth.

0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:53.319
<v Speaker 3>But of course Ulric is the real deal, because when

0:47:53.400 --> 0:47:55.600
<v Speaker 3>he comes into the room, we see him immediately using

0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.080
<v Speaker 3>real magic, like he raises flames on the candles and

0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:01.680
<v Speaker 3>in the hearth with a And so he meets with

0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:05.080
<v Speaker 3>the travelers. We learn they are a delegation from Orland,

0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:09.279
<v Speaker 3>which is beyond Valvatia, and he says, let's see the artifacts,

0:48:09.360 --> 0:48:13.040
<v Speaker 3>as if this is almost like a routine, kind of

0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:16.239
<v Speaker 3>recurring type of meeting. He's just like, we go through

0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:19.320
<v Speaker 3>the steps here, show me the artifacts, and they share

0:48:19.360 --> 0:48:24.000
<v Speaker 3>with him scales and an enormous tooth. Ulrich at first

0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:27.080
<v Speaker 3>seems a little intimidated. He says, the beast that this

0:48:27.200 --> 0:48:31.439
<v Speaker 3>came from must be enormous, and he suggests they try

0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:35.200
<v Speaker 3>someone else. He says, try the Meridid sisters or Rimbau.

0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:39.400
<v Speaker 3>These are other sorcerers that apparently have experience fighting dragons,

0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:42.920
<v Speaker 3>but Valerian says, nope, they are all dead. Ulrich seems

0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:46.000
<v Speaker 3>to be the only great sorcerer left in the land.

0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:51.000
<v Speaker 3>Ulrich then discovers more of their plight. The king of Orland, Cassiodorus,

0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:54.719
<v Speaker 3>has made a pact with the monster. The dragon agrees

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:58.080
<v Speaker 3>not to attack the villages and burn the crops of orland.

0:48:58.200 --> 0:49:01.400
<v Speaker 3>But this is only as long as at the spring

0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:06.040
<v Speaker 3>and autumn equinox he receives a human sacrifice, they will

0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:09.960
<v Speaker 3>send him a virgin selected by lottery. Ulric judges this

0:49:10.080 --> 0:49:13.880
<v Speaker 3>arrangement barbaric, and then Valerian says to him, are you

0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:17.439
<v Speaker 3>afraid of dragons? And Ulric says, I'm going to quote

0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:20.200
<v Speaker 3>him here he says no. In fact, if it weren't

0:49:20.239 --> 0:49:24.680
<v Speaker 3>for sorcerers, there wouldn't be any dragons once the skies

0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:30.160
<v Speaker 3>were dotted with them, magnificent horned backs, leathern wings, soaring,

0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:34.080
<v Speaker 3>and their hot breath wind. Oh, I know this creature

0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:40.040
<v Speaker 3>of yours, vermicthrax pejorative. Look at these scales, these ridges.

0:49:40.400 --> 0:49:44.320
<v Speaker 3>When a dragon gets this old, it knows nothing but pain,

0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:50.399
<v Speaker 3>constant pain. It grows decrepit, crippled, pitiful, spiteful.

0:49:50.920 --> 0:49:54.120
<v Speaker 2>It's a great moment because, I mean, obviously he's not

0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:58.320
<v Speaker 2>just describing the dragon here, he's also talking about himself.

0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:00.600
<v Speaker 2>He's talking about the of.

0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:03.920
<v Speaker 3>Age, that's right, So that's interesting. But also it's a

0:50:03.960 --> 0:50:07.160
<v Speaker 3>strange take on the dragon. So you know, We were

0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:09.319
<v Speaker 3>saying earlier that the dragon in this movie is very

0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:12.799
<v Speaker 3>much a monster and is not one of the noble, intelligent,

0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:16.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, higher dragons of some other fantasy stories. But

0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:19.759
<v Speaker 3>it almost sounds like maybe this same dragon would have

0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:23.800
<v Speaker 3>been many many years ago. But dragons, when they become old,

0:50:23.960 --> 0:50:28.880
<v Speaker 3>become twisted and cruel. Yeah, and it's because they themselves

0:50:28.920 --> 0:50:29.480
<v Speaker 3>are in pain.

0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it reminds me a bit of examples

0:50:32.480 --> 0:50:36.160
<v Speaker 2>we've talked about in the natural world concerning meat eaters,

0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:40.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, particularly a man eaters, large predators that have

0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:46.680
<v Speaker 2>just have turned to killing and consuming human beings. And

0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:48.880
<v Speaker 2>in many cases that's not because you have a creature

0:50:48.920 --> 0:50:52.040
<v Speaker 2>in its prime. You have a creature that's aging, that

0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:56.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe has dental problems and so forth, and therefore has

0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:58.200
<v Speaker 2>kind of been reduced to this status.

0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's having troubles in the way it always has before,

0:51:02.680 --> 0:51:06.520
<v Speaker 3>and so is trying new things out of desperation. So

0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.760
<v Speaker 3>Ulrich agrees to help them. He suits up to travel,

0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.920
<v Speaker 3>and he says goodbye to Galen and Hodge. Hodge is

0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:16.360
<v Speaker 3>his retainer there at the castle. Galen's his little magical assistant.

0:51:16.400 --> 0:51:20.160
<v Speaker 3>That's Peter McNichol, As he's leaving, he says to Galen,

0:51:20.320 --> 0:51:24.520
<v Speaker 3>keep your hands out of my reagents. But ooh, then

0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.839
<v Speaker 3>we're about to get a really great villain introduction. As

0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.799
<v Speaker 3>the party is preparing to leave the castle of Kraganmore,

0:51:31.200 --> 0:51:34.880
<v Speaker 3>they are intercepted by armed men led by Tyrian, the

0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:38.880
<v Speaker 3>captain of Cassiodorus's royal guard, his king's guard, if you will.

0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:44.920
<v Speaker 3>Tyrian is a large man. He is sneering and seemingly dangerous.

0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:48.200
<v Speaker 3>He has that energy of someone who is calm for

0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:53.000
<v Speaker 3>the moment, but could suddenly become violent. However, once he

0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:57.560
<v Speaker 3>starts talking, I gotta admit Tyrian makes some good points.

0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:00.239
<v Speaker 3>He says, Look, I know what you're up to. You

0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:03.280
<v Speaker 3>know you're gonna get a wizard to go kill this dragon. Well,

0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:06.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't love the dragon either, but if you try

0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:09.279
<v Speaker 3>to kill it and fail, you are going to stir

0:52:09.400 --> 0:52:12.520
<v Speaker 3>up a huge mess of trouble and it may that

0:52:12.600 --> 0:52:15.640
<v Speaker 3>may be disastrous for the people of the kingdom. So

0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:17.640
<v Speaker 3>if you're going to try to kill the dragon, you

0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.840
<v Speaker 3>better be sure that your wizard is up to the job.

0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:24.319
<v Speaker 3>And then Hodge responds to this saying, ah, so it's

0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:28.160
<v Speaker 3>a test you're looking for. We don't do tests, and

0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:32.840
<v Speaker 3>Tyrian's response is no, of course not. They never do tests.

0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:37.600
<v Speaker 3>Not many real deeds either. Oh, conversation with your grandmother's

0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:41.000
<v Speaker 3>shade in a darkened room, the odd love potion or two.

0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:44.239
<v Speaker 3>But comes a doubter. Why then it's the wrong day,

0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:47.759
<v Speaker 3>The planets are not in line, the entrails are not favorable.

0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:52.480
<v Speaker 3>We don't do tests. And so Tyrian comes off like

0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:54.480
<v Speaker 3>a villain in the scene. But he's making a lot

0:52:54.520 --> 0:52:57.800
<v Speaker 3>of sense. You do not want to send Uri Geller

0:52:58.000 --> 0:53:00.760
<v Speaker 3>up to fight the monster that is going to react

0:53:00.800 --> 0:53:02.560
<v Speaker 3>with swift and terrible revenge.

0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, he does make some great points here. You know,

0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:08.799
<v Speaker 2>it's like, again kind of in support of the status quo,

0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:13.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's like, are you gonna actually solve any problems

0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:15.080
<v Speaker 2>with this or are you just gonna make things worse.

0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:18.160
<v Speaker 2>He's very much of the mindset I think, you know

0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:21.640
<v Speaker 2>better better one hundred years of tyranny than a day

0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:22.920
<v Speaker 2>of chaos, that sort of thing.

0:53:23.200 --> 0:53:25.560
<v Speaker 3>But they have experience to base this on, because they

0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 3>will reveal later that the king's brother long ago did

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:31.400
<v Speaker 3>try to go slay the dragon to free the people

0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:36.920
<v Speaker 3>from its from its oppression, and in response to this, attack.

0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:41.280
<v Speaker 3>The dragon burned all their crops and attacked their villages

0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:46.440
<v Speaker 3>and many were killed and it was horrible. Yeah, but anyway,

0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:50.280
<v Speaker 3>Ulric says, yeah, okay, Tyrian, I will consent to a test.

0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:52.880
<v Speaker 3>And it's what test is it? It's the old stab

0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:57.520
<v Speaker 3>me with the magic dagger test. So Ulric assures Tyrian.

0:53:57.640 --> 0:54:00.600
<v Speaker 3>He like gets Peter McNichol to go get a special

0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:03.080
<v Speaker 3>dagger for him, and he puts the dagger against his

0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:06.000
<v Speaker 3>chest and says, go on, you can't hurt me. And

0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:09.319
<v Speaker 3>then Ulrich he uses magic to trap Galen inside his

0:54:09.400 --> 0:54:13.239
<v Speaker 3>workshop to prevent him from intervening, and Tirian does the

0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:15.480
<v Speaker 3>test and oh no, Ulrich is killed.

0:54:16.239 --> 0:54:18.320
<v Speaker 2>This is a really great scene and one that I

0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:22.960
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed rewatching with commentary. So Richardson really does a lot

0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:26.360
<v Speaker 2>of subtle, fascinating work here, Like there's kind of like

0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:31.000
<v Speaker 2>ritualistic handling of the dagger leading up to the test,

0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:34.520
<v Speaker 2>the bearing of his breast for the dagger, and there's

0:54:34.719 --> 0:54:37.160
<v Speaker 2>the look in his eyes, you know with this at

0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:40.680
<v Speaker 2>first with the boldness and assuredness of a powerful wizard,

0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:43.760
<v Speaker 2>but then it, you know, it kind of transitions into

0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:48.520
<v Speaker 2>like the certainty, the the the mundane nature of death,

0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:53.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, and del Toro talks about this a bit

0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:56.960
<v Speaker 2>on the commentary track, compares the overall blocking and cinematography

0:54:56.960 --> 0:54:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of the scene to like a Rembrandt painting. You know,

0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:03.520
<v Speaker 2>it's really a great sequence and really a showcase for

0:55:03.680 --> 0:55:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Richardson's acting.

0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:07.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, there are a lot of things about

0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:10.319
<v Speaker 3>this movie. I think you could regard as a bit

0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:14.520
<v Speaker 3>rim brandy. There are these scenes of orange light and shadows.

0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:17.560
<v Speaker 3>But also, yeah, the blocking, like the way the wizard

0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:21.040
<v Speaker 3>kind of collapses, Yeah.

0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Because he does do Like the death here does not

0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:27.080
<v Speaker 2>feel magical. It feels like an old man foolishly getting

0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:29.960
<v Speaker 2>himself stabbed through the heart and just dying there in

0:55:29.960 --> 0:55:30.359
<v Speaker 2>the mud.

0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:33.360
<v Speaker 3>It makes you wonder did he actually have any powers

0:55:33.400 --> 0:55:35.480
<v Speaker 3>at all? I mean, we saw him light some candles

0:55:35.480 --> 0:55:36.640
<v Speaker 3>and stuff, but was that it?

0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:40.319
<v Speaker 2>And it seems very much a world where that is

0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:43.359
<v Speaker 2>a strong possibility that he had no magic left in him.

0:55:43.360 --> 0:55:45.480
<v Speaker 2>There was no great magic left for this guy to do.

0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:48.719
<v Speaker 3>So we see funeral rights for Ulrich. Galen burns his

0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:51.840
<v Speaker 3>body on a pyre. There's a green flame that emerges

0:55:52.360 --> 0:55:55.480
<v Speaker 3>and Galen looks on with terrible sadness. We see shooting

0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:59.440
<v Speaker 3>stars streaking across the heavens, and the next morning Hodge

0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:02.760
<v Speaker 3>comes in scrapes up the ashes from the funeral pyre

0:56:02.840 --> 0:56:06.279
<v Speaker 3>into a leather pouch, and we see Galen kind of

0:56:06.280 --> 0:56:09.680
<v Speaker 3>moping around, covering up Ulric's things with cloth and wondering

0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:13.279
<v Speaker 3>what to do with himself. But his adventure is just

0:56:13.480 --> 0:56:17.800
<v Speaker 3>beginning because some magical selection is at work here. Galen

0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:22.440
<v Speaker 3>finds Ulric's enchanted amulet burning for him, burning with this

0:56:22.960 --> 0:56:26.520
<v Speaker 3>eager orange light in his presence, It has chosen him

0:56:26.680 --> 0:56:30.560
<v Speaker 3>as its next owner. You are the wizard now, Galen, and.

0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Just fills him with the foolish self confidence he needs

0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:35.960
<v Speaker 2>to set out to slay the dragon.

0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:38.320
<v Speaker 3>That's right. So we see Galen and Hodge on the

0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.520
<v Speaker 3>journey to Orland. They're making the journey and they're like

0:56:41.600 --> 0:56:44.200
<v Speaker 3>catching up to the party of visitors that came to

0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:48.719
<v Speaker 3>them earlier. Galen seems excited and a little bit overwhelmed

0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:51.360
<v Speaker 3>by his new power, like he's levitating an egg in

0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:54.480
<v Speaker 3>his hands while they walk across the country. This is

0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:59.040
<v Speaker 3>the first time we see some really gorgeous exterior location shots.

0:56:59.080 --> 0:57:02.040
<v Speaker 3>They're going through a green valley framed by mountains and

0:57:02.080 --> 0:57:05.240
<v Speaker 3>they make their way through these misty, sun dappled woods.

0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:09.520
<v Speaker 3>It's very beautiful, but Galen is also he's playing with

0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:13.600
<v Speaker 3>and arguably abusing his wizard powers. Hodge is complaining and

0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Galen starts like magically stealing his cloak and stuff. Eventually,

0:57:18.480 --> 0:57:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Galen and Hodge catch up to the traveling party and

0:57:21.000 --> 0:57:24.440
<v Speaker 3>Galen introduces them to his new powers and says, you know,

0:57:24.600 --> 0:57:27.960
<v Speaker 3>he's saying, I take on the burden of your request.

0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:31.160
<v Speaker 3>I am Galen, I am the inheritor of Ulrich's knowledge,

0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:42.760
<v Speaker 3>and I am the sorcerer you seek. Now Here we

0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:46.360
<v Speaker 3>cut away to somewhere else in Orland, where we are

0:57:46.360 --> 0:57:51.040
<v Speaker 3>going to witness a sacrifice to vermic Thrack's pejorative the Dragon.

0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:54.320
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if we even took a moment to

0:57:54.360 --> 0:57:57.200
<v Speaker 3>comment on the dragon's name yet, did we know?

0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:00.000
<v Speaker 2>But it is such a wonderful name, and it is

0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:03.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of left a little vague whether this is thought

0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:06.120
<v Speaker 2>of as an individual name or like a species sort

0:58:06.120 --> 0:58:10.800
<v Speaker 2>of name, given the wizard's identification of it earlier.

0:58:11.360 --> 0:58:13.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I hadn't thought of it as a species name.

0:58:13.440 --> 0:58:15.200
<v Speaker 3>I thought of it as like a proper name. But

0:58:15.640 --> 0:58:19.600
<v Speaker 3>you could be right. It works either way, I think, Yeah,

0:58:19.640 --> 0:58:22.600
<v Speaker 3>but how does anybody know this is the dragon's name? Like,

0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:25.800
<v Speaker 3>does the dragon use this name itself? We never hear

0:58:25.880 --> 0:58:26.360
<v Speaker 3>it talk.

0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:30.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it can talk, it doesn't, or

0:58:30.040 --> 0:58:33.680
<v Speaker 2>it no longer speaks. Yeah, this is not a dragon

0:58:33.680 --> 0:58:36.400
<v Speaker 2>with anything to say and say with words. It speaks

0:58:36.120 --> 0:58:38.840
<v Speaker 2>instead with flames and violence.

0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:43.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, So we see a procession of soldiers, carts, robed

0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:46.840
<v Speaker 3>priests winding up a mountain path of dark rocks. They

0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:50.480
<v Speaker 3>are escorting a prisoner, a young woman dressed in white

0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:54.000
<v Speaker 3>with flowers in her hair. She is a sacrifice that

0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:56.840
<v Speaker 3>is meant for the dragon, so they take her up

0:58:56.920 --> 0:58:59.160
<v Speaker 3>the mountain and they leave her chain to a stake

0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:02.760
<v Speaker 3>near the mouth of a cave, and the priest produces

0:59:02.800 --> 0:59:06.959
<v Speaker 3>a scroll and begins reading an official decree commemorating the sacrifice.

0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:12.200
<v Speaker 3>Though while he's reading this, there begins a great deep rumbling,

0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:15.120
<v Speaker 3>and the soldiers and the teamsters with the carts they

0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:17.280
<v Speaker 3>all panic and they start just trying to get out

0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:20.080
<v Speaker 3>of there as fast as they can before the cleric

0:59:20.160 --> 0:59:23.840
<v Speaker 3>even finishes reading the statement, which is really funny. So

0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:26.160
<v Speaker 3>everybody's trying to run away, like the carts are getting

0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:29.040
<v Speaker 3>stuck in the mud and people are freaking out. But

0:59:29.160 --> 0:59:33.360
<v Speaker 3>this scene is actually quite scary. Yeah, the young woman

0:59:33.520 --> 0:59:37.120
<v Speaker 3>being sacrificed, she struggles to free herself from her manacles.

0:59:37.480 --> 0:59:40.560
<v Speaker 3>We hear these heavy footsteps approaching. We don't see the

0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:43.120
<v Speaker 3>dragon yet, but these sounds are coming from the yawning

0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:46.360
<v Speaker 3>mouth of the cave, their steam rushing up from the

0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:48.960
<v Speaker 3>gaps in the rocks. And then we see a giant,

0:59:49.080 --> 0:59:53.040
<v Speaker 3>clawed pair of toes curling around the corner of the rock,

0:59:53.600 --> 0:59:57.360
<v Speaker 3>and the beast reveals itself in full to her, but

0:59:57.520 --> 1:00:01.240
<v Speaker 3>not to us yet. We get the feeling we sort

1:00:01.280 --> 1:00:03.480
<v Speaker 3>of see from its point of view, and get the

1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:07.480
<v Speaker 3>feeling that it is towering, monstrous. We do see that

1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:11.400
<v Speaker 3>it has a slimy tail covered in these these spikes

1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:16.160
<v Speaker 3>protruding bones. Not like the elegant sort of patterns of

1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:21.000
<v Speaker 3>ridges and bumps you see on smoother dragons of recent media.

1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:25.400
<v Speaker 3>This looks more like a gigantic spine of fish bones,

1:00:25.520 --> 1:00:29.360
<v Speaker 3>you know, like broken in places, irregular modeled, with age,

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:33.160
<v Speaker 3>covered in scales and mucus. Just horrible in every way.

1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.800
<v Speaker 2>And again we don't see it in full us the viewer.

1:00:36.920 --> 1:00:40.720
<v Speaker 2>We see bits and pieces of it the full shape

1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:43.760
<v Speaker 2>of the dragon is implied rather than stated overtly.

1:00:44.320 --> 1:00:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, So the young woman actually the last moment, does

1:00:47.120 --> 1:00:50.440
<v Speaker 3>manage to free herself from her from her manacles, but

1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:54.240
<v Speaker 3>it's too late. The dragon is there. It's looming over her,

1:00:54.720 --> 1:00:59.080
<v Speaker 3>a giant, stinking, hateful mass, and then finally it just

1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:04.320
<v Speaker 3>unleashes a breath of fire. It's an incredibly effective scary scene.

1:01:04.520 --> 1:01:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is like a horror movie sequence right here,

1:01:07.640 --> 1:01:09.760
<v Speaker 2>and it uses the tools of horror quite well. Like

1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:12.960
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned her trying to free yourselves from herself from

1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:15.400
<v Speaker 2>the manacles, and of course that they're cutting up her

1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:18.600
<v Speaker 2>wrists there she's straining and having to squeeze, like and

1:01:18.640 --> 1:01:21.720
<v Speaker 2>it's one of those small touches, you know, where we

1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:25.960
<v Speaker 2>can more easily imagine that pain and that desperation than

1:01:26.000 --> 1:01:29.640
<v Speaker 2>we can like the larger, more fantastic aspects of and

1:01:29.760 --> 1:01:33.600
<v Speaker 2>extreme aspects of the situation, and therefore, like the familiar

1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:39.840
<v Speaker 2>makes the fantastic more real to us. So it's excellently done.

1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:43.040
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, when we start seeing these glimpses of the dragon,

1:01:43.880 --> 1:01:47.120
<v Speaker 2>just utterly terrifying. On the commentary track, Del Toro just

1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:50.840
<v Speaker 2>loses his mind over this sequence. He's just He's like, oh,

1:01:50.880 --> 1:01:53.280
<v Speaker 2>what of what I wouldn't give for a scene like this?

1:01:53.520 --> 1:01:56.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, It's like, find someone in your life who

1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:59.400
<v Speaker 2>loves you as much as del Toro loves these dragon sequences.

1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:02.200
<v Speaker 3>That is a good point you make about the way

1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:05.480
<v Speaker 3>that it combines different types of horror in the same scene,

1:02:05.520 --> 1:02:08.800
<v Speaker 3>for this greater than the sum of its parts effect

1:02:08.920 --> 1:02:13.080
<v Speaker 3>that the horrors of the scene are both large and small,

1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:19.680
<v Speaker 3>both sort of concrete and familiar, and then fantastical and magical. Yeah. Anyway,

1:02:19.720 --> 1:02:22.840
<v Speaker 3>after this terrifying sequence, we see Valerian wake from a

1:02:22.920 --> 1:02:26.800
<v Speaker 3>nightmare in a cold sweat at their camp in the forest.

1:02:27.600 --> 1:02:30.640
<v Speaker 3>And then here at the river beside the camp, Galen

1:02:30.720 --> 1:02:33.040
<v Speaker 3>wakes up and he decides to go bathing in the water,

1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:36.760
<v Speaker 3>which Valerian is also doing as well, and in this

1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:40.120
<v Speaker 3>process he discovers that Valerian is not a young man

1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:43.200
<v Speaker 3>but a young woman in disguise, and this is where

1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:46.560
<v Speaker 3>we get the story she fills him in. We find

1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:48.960
<v Speaker 3>out that she has lived her whole life in public

1:02:49.160 --> 1:02:54.160
<v Speaker 3>disguised as a boy to hide from the Vermicthrax sacrifice lottery,

1:02:54.840 --> 1:02:57.640
<v Speaker 3>and Galen promises he'll help her keep her secret he's

1:02:57.680 --> 1:03:00.960
<v Speaker 3>not going to tell anybody, and they have conversation where

1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Valerian reveals also that it's only the daughters of the

1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:06.720
<v Speaker 3>common people who are in danger. If you're rich enough,

1:03:06.760 --> 1:03:08.720
<v Speaker 3>if you're the daughter of the king, you can avoid

1:03:08.840 --> 1:03:11.720
<v Speaker 3>the lottery. But of course Valerian's father is just a

1:03:11.760 --> 1:03:13.200
<v Speaker 3>blacksmith's he's poor.

1:03:13.680 --> 1:03:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Now on the commentary track, they do point out like

1:03:16.120 --> 1:03:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the obvious connection here to like the military draft, particularly

1:03:20.800 --> 1:03:24.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, during the nineteen sixties in the United States,

1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and so there's you know, there's this is one of

1:03:25.920 --> 1:03:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the many moments in the film where there's actually some

1:03:28.640 --> 1:03:30.560
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of food for thought in the scenario

1:03:30.680 --> 1:03:33.680
<v Speaker 2>that's being drawn out for us here. You know, it's

1:03:34.200 --> 1:03:37.880
<v Speaker 2>it's it's fantasy, Yes, it's it's it's supposed to be

1:03:39.400 --> 1:03:43.160
<v Speaker 2>centuries ago in this you know, somewhere a little adjacent

1:03:43.240 --> 1:03:45.280
<v Speaker 2>to history. But he does have you know, there are

1:03:45.320 --> 1:03:49.320
<v Speaker 2>various comparison points for modern life in the modern world. Yeah.

1:03:49.440 --> 1:03:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So also in the scene though Galen sees a

1:03:53.960 --> 1:03:57.040
<v Speaker 3>vision in the water, his like amulet activates and he

1:03:57.080 --> 1:03:59.919
<v Speaker 3>starts to use the water surface as a divining mirror,

1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:03.560
<v Speaker 3>and he sees soldiers riding on the road and Tyrian,

1:04:03.840 --> 1:04:07.720
<v Speaker 3>the captain of the King's guard, overlooking the camp, drawing

1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:11.200
<v Speaker 3>his bow, and now he sees Tyrian has shot Hodge

1:04:11.240 --> 1:04:14.040
<v Speaker 3>with an arrow. So Galen is like, no, no, no,

1:04:14.080 --> 1:04:16.440
<v Speaker 3>and he runs to intervene, but it's too late. Galen

1:04:16.520 --> 1:04:20.320
<v Speaker 3>finds Hodge dying of his wound, and Hodge instructs Galen.

1:04:20.360 --> 1:04:24.520
<v Speaker 3>He says, our master had dying wishes. Take this pouch

1:04:24.640 --> 1:04:28.760
<v Speaker 3>of Ulrich's ashes, find the lake of burning Water and

1:04:28.840 --> 1:04:33.120
<v Speaker 3>throw the ashes in, and then Hodge dies. Galen tries,

1:04:33.160 --> 1:04:35.720
<v Speaker 3>I think, to resurrect him with magic, but this fails.

1:04:36.720 --> 1:04:38.720
<v Speaker 3>So the stakes are up, and this sort of marks

1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:40.440
<v Speaker 3>roughly the end of act one.

1:04:40.560 --> 1:04:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Ish yeah, yeah, I think so.

1:04:43.200 --> 1:04:45.840
<v Speaker 3>So Galen, Valerian and the rest of the Erlanders make

1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:48.400
<v Speaker 3>their way back to Dragon Country, and again lots of

1:04:48.480 --> 1:04:53.160
<v Speaker 3>absolutely gorgeous outdoor location shots here, the landscape, the rocks

1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:57.120
<v Speaker 3>covered in moss, waterfalls, mountains of gray boulders, and on

1:04:57.160 --> 1:04:59.800
<v Speaker 3>the way they pass by the Lair of vermathrax b

1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:02.600
<v Speaker 3>Orative and Galen wants to go straight to it. I

1:05:02.640 --> 1:05:04.920
<v Speaker 3>think they're like, well, let's go home first, but he's like, no,

1:05:05.080 --> 1:05:06.960
<v Speaker 3>get me there right now. So they go to the

1:05:07.000 --> 1:05:10.160
<v Speaker 3>cave mouth. Galen is just he has so much zeal

1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:13.600
<v Speaker 3>he just goes straight inside, against the warnings of Valerian

1:05:13.680 --> 1:05:16.120
<v Speaker 3>and the others. It's very tense when he goes in.

1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:19.760
<v Speaker 3>The atmosphere in the dragon's cave is wonderful, and he

1:05:19.840 --> 1:05:22.280
<v Speaker 3>tries to call out vermath Rax, and there are these

1:05:22.320 --> 1:05:25.320
<v Speaker 3>blasts of smoke and dust, but the dragon does not appear.

1:05:25.840 --> 1:05:28.919
<v Speaker 3>So Galen comes back out of the cave, and he's

1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:31.640
<v Speaker 3>been told by the others that there is only one

1:05:32.000 --> 1:05:34.560
<v Speaker 3>entrance and exit to the cave. There's no other way

1:05:34.640 --> 1:05:39.160
<v Speaker 3>in or out, so seemingly kind of chastened by fear

1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.040
<v Speaker 3>a little bit. Instead of going in to fight the

1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:45.160
<v Speaker 3>dragon inside, he does a magical incantation to cause a

1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:49.800
<v Speaker 3>boulder to fall down and plug the mouth of the cave. Again,

1:05:49.840 --> 1:05:52.280
<v Speaker 3>we've been told this is the only entrance, but it's

1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:54.400
<v Speaker 3>almost like he doesn't know his own strength, because it

1:05:54.520 --> 1:05:57.400
<v Speaker 3>ends up causing a gigantic rock slide with all of

1:05:57.440 --> 1:06:00.680
<v Speaker 3>these rocks coming down and piling up over the mouth

1:06:00.720 --> 1:06:03.000
<v Speaker 3>of the cave, and it seems to have worked. The

1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:05.920
<v Speaker 3>mouth of the cave of Vermathrax is filled in with

1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:08.160
<v Speaker 3>rocks and they say he's done.

1:06:07.920 --> 1:06:10.800
<v Speaker 2>It, all right, mission accomplished, kind of like a lucky

1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:11.640
<v Speaker 2>first blow there.

1:06:11.680 --> 1:06:14.919
<v Speaker 3>All right, yeah, good thing, the movie's over. But it's

1:06:14.960 --> 1:06:18.280
<v Speaker 3>not so. Back at the village, everybody is celebrating being

1:06:18.320 --> 1:06:21.080
<v Speaker 3>freed of the dragon. There's a bonfire. They're burning the

1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:24.160
<v Speaker 3>cult effigies of the dragon that they'd previously carried up

1:06:24.160 --> 1:06:27.840
<v Speaker 3>the mountain in fear. Galen is telling stories to the children,

1:06:27.880 --> 1:06:31.200
<v Speaker 3>and we meet Valerian's father, who is the village blacksmith,

1:06:31.760 --> 1:06:35.760
<v Speaker 3>and Valerian finally now free of the dragon's curse. She

1:06:36.000 --> 1:06:39.280
<v Speaker 3>in this scene puts on a dress and reveals to

1:06:39.400 --> 1:06:43.160
<v Speaker 3>everyone that she is a girl. And there's also a

1:06:43.200 --> 1:06:46.000
<v Speaker 3>funny development in the scene, which is where we meet

1:06:46.000 --> 1:06:50.200
<v Speaker 3>the Christian missionary and it's Ian McDermid and some of

1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:53.200
<v Speaker 3>the villagers are talking. I think, I forget the villager's name,

1:06:53.240 --> 1:06:55.080
<v Speaker 3>but it's the one who seems to be really into

1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:57.920
<v Speaker 3>what the Christian is saying. He's like, don't you think

1:06:57.920 --> 1:06:59.920
<v Speaker 3>it's strange that there's a holy man in the villa

1:07:00.280 --> 1:07:02.520
<v Speaker 3>at the same time that the dragon was defeated?

1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Makes you think, yeah, I think this is the character

1:07:06.200 --> 1:07:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Griel played by Albert Salmi who lived nineteen twenty eight

1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:13.720
<v Speaker 2>through nineteen ninety. He was an American character actor. It

1:07:13.800 --> 1:07:16.000
<v Speaker 2>was in a bunch of things. He was in Caddy Shack.

1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:18.840
<v Speaker 2>He was on episodes of the original Twilight Zone and

1:07:18.960 --> 1:07:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Night Gallery. And I think his voice is dubbed in this,

1:07:22.200 --> 1:07:24.400
<v Speaker 2>but he has a very recognizable face.

1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:29.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but record scratch. The party stops when soldiers come

1:07:29.440 --> 1:07:32.200
<v Speaker 3>riding into the village on horseback, led by Tyrian, the

1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:35.040
<v Speaker 3>captain of the King's guard, and they're like, we need

1:07:35.080 --> 1:07:37.120
<v Speaker 3>to take Galen off to meet the king. The king

1:07:37.200 --> 1:07:39.920
<v Speaker 3>wants to meet the wizard who delivered them all from

1:07:39.960 --> 1:07:42.919
<v Speaker 3>the power of the dragon. And so we see Peter

1:07:43.040 --> 1:07:45.920
<v Speaker 3>McNichol in front of the king trying to do demonstrations

1:07:45.920 --> 1:07:48.440
<v Speaker 3>of magic. It's not going super well, Like he tries

1:07:48.480 --> 1:07:51.080
<v Speaker 3>to levitate a table and just kind of knocks stuff.

1:07:50.840 --> 1:07:53.400
<v Speaker 2>All over the place a little bit nothing convincing.

1:07:53.800 --> 1:07:56.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but this is where we hear the stories that

1:07:56.800 --> 1:07:59.479
<v Speaker 3>I alluded to earlier, where the King explains like, look,

1:07:59.520 --> 1:08:02.320
<v Speaker 3>we have had to kill the dragon before my brother

1:08:02.400 --> 1:08:04.560
<v Speaker 3>tried to do it, and all it led to was

1:08:04.760 --> 1:08:08.760
<v Speaker 3>horrible reprisals from the dragon. So we have to make

1:08:08.800 --> 1:08:12.240
<v Speaker 3>sure did you really kill the dragon? Is it really dead?

1:08:12.520 --> 1:08:15.880
<v Speaker 3>Galen promises, yes, it is, but the king is suspicious

1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:18.719
<v Speaker 3>of him. He doesn't believe it, so he takes Galen prisoner,

1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:21.599
<v Speaker 3>throws him in the dungeon, takes away his magical amulet.

1:08:22.479 --> 1:08:26.760
<v Speaker 3>And in the dungeon here Galen meets Princess Elspeth as

1:08:26.760 --> 1:08:29.160
<v Speaker 3>she comes in, saying like, oh, I heard you muttering

1:08:29.200 --> 1:08:31.680
<v Speaker 3>spells in Greek and Latin. It seems like that's not

1:08:31.760 --> 1:08:33.920
<v Speaker 3>working because you know of your amulet. But I speak

1:08:33.960 --> 1:08:37.599
<v Speaker 3>Greek and Latin too. And in this scene they sort

1:08:37.600 --> 1:08:39.519
<v Speaker 3>of talk about what goes on with the dragon, and

1:08:39.560 --> 1:08:42.240
<v Speaker 3>it's revealed that she is naive about how she's been

1:08:42.280 --> 1:08:45.720
<v Speaker 3>avoiding the dragon's lottery. Galen fills her in like, yeah,

1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:48.759
<v Speaker 3>your dad's covering for you, like your name's not going

1:08:48.760 --> 1:08:49.559
<v Speaker 3>into the lottery.

1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, where she thinks, I've just I've had the same

1:08:51.880 --> 1:08:55.439
<v Speaker 2>risk the whole time, and you know, I've been lucky.

1:08:55.520 --> 1:09:00.160
<v Speaker 2>But he's like, no, that's that's complete complete bs that

1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:01.560
<v Speaker 2>the fixes in obviously.

1:09:01.960 --> 1:09:05.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And she goes directly to her father, King Cassiodorus

1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:09.040
<v Speaker 3>and confronts him about this, and so he's he's about

1:09:09.080 --> 1:09:13.120
<v Speaker 3>to sort of have to answer for misleading her about this,

1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:17.160
<v Speaker 3>letting her think that she'd been competing fairly, not competing,

1:09:17.160 --> 1:09:19.479
<v Speaker 3>and that she'd had the same fair risk as all

1:09:19.479 --> 1:09:23.600
<v Speaker 3>the other girls. But instead they're interrupted. There's like the

1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:27.360
<v Speaker 3>quaking of the earth and on no vermoth Rax is alive.

1:09:28.160 --> 1:09:31.400
<v Speaker 3>And in the middle here Galen escapes the dungeon because

1:09:31.439 --> 1:09:34.040
<v Speaker 3>the princess comes and frees him. She's she's sort of

1:09:34.080 --> 1:09:37.160
<v Speaker 3>like his revelations have rocked her world, and she's like, Okay,

1:09:37.160 --> 1:09:38.920
<v Speaker 3>i gotta let him out of the dungeon and I'm

1:09:38.960 --> 1:09:41.800
<v Speaker 3>in rebellion mode. Now Galen gets on a horse and

1:09:41.880 --> 1:09:45.639
<v Speaker 3>runs away from the castle. Meanwhile, the villagers are led

1:09:45.760 --> 1:09:49.160
<v Speaker 3>up the mountain in terror by the Christian monk, by

1:09:49.240 --> 1:09:52.559
<v Speaker 3>brother Jacopus, and the Christian tells them this is not

1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:56.320
<v Speaker 3>a dragon, it's Lucifer. But vermuth Rax comes out of

1:09:56.360 --> 1:09:59.720
<v Speaker 3>the earth and faces off against the Christian wizard here

1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:02.880
<v Speaker 3>and it is no contest. There is a breath of

1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:05.599
<v Speaker 3>hot wind and the dragon is so scary.

1:10:05.880 --> 1:10:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, Yeah, this is this is another great sequence.

1:10:09.040 --> 1:10:11.760
<v Speaker 2>This is another sequence that del Toro loses his mind

1:10:11.800 --> 1:10:15.719
<v Speaker 2>over because it's just just it's the way it's blocked,

1:10:15.760 --> 1:10:20.080
<v Speaker 2>the way it shot, the way Vermathrax rises up out

1:10:20.080 --> 1:10:23.640
<v Speaker 2>of these flaming pit, this flaming pit with it with

1:10:23.680 --> 1:10:29.439
<v Speaker 2>these horns, like some sort of Satanic figure emerging out

1:10:29.439 --> 1:10:32.519
<v Speaker 2>of hell, and then like it very quickly, I think

1:10:32.600 --> 1:10:36.640
<v Speaker 2>becomes obvious to our Christian missionary friend here that he

1:10:36.760 --> 1:10:39.759
<v Speaker 2>is out of his element, that this is not something

1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:41.280
<v Speaker 2>that he's going to be over to be able to

1:10:41.320 --> 1:10:43.160
<v Speaker 2>overcome with his religion and his faith.

1:10:43.600 --> 1:10:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he is. He is vanquished by the power of evil.

1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:50.320
<v Speaker 3>So we cut to sometime later where we see Tyrian

1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:54.280
<v Speaker 3>arrive at the house of Valerian and her father, and

1:10:54.400 --> 1:10:56.759
<v Speaker 3>Tyrian and his men are searching the village for Galen.

1:10:56.840 --> 1:10:59.000
<v Speaker 3>So they're going around the house like looking in baskets

1:10:59.000 --> 1:11:02.600
<v Speaker 3>and stuff, being like the wizard hiding in here, and

1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Tyrian threatens that you know what, because the dragon is

1:11:06.840 --> 1:11:09.280
<v Speaker 3>now so angry that somebody tried to go kill him,

1:11:09.960 --> 1:11:13.040
<v Speaker 3>there's going to need to be an early sacrifice ahead

1:11:13.040 --> 1:11:15.800
<v Speaker 3>of schedule. And you know what, now that everybody knows

1:11:15.840 --> 1:11:18.080
<v Speaker 3>about your daughter, she's gonna have to be in the

1:11:18.080 --> 1:11:21.519
<v Speaker 3>lottery too. And they tried, they try to find Galen,

1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:23.280
<v Speaker 3>but they don't find him anywhere, so they leave and

1:11:23.320 --> 1:11:25.799
<v Speaker 3>it turns out he was hiding in like a secret

1:11:25.880 --> 1:11:27.680
<v Speaker 3>compartment under the anvil.

1:11:28.360 --> 1:11:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, standard issue, I think.

1:11:30.320 --> 1:11:33.959
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. But here we get a forging the weapon sequence

1:11:34.000 --> 1:11:36.800
<v Speaker 3>where we find about how we find out that Valerian's

1:11:36.800 --> 1:11:41.720
<v Speaker 3>father has created a secret dragon slaying weapon that he's

1:11:41.720 --> 1:11:45.760
<v Speaker 3>got like hidden in this cage that's hidden behind a waterfall.

1:11:45.920 --> 1:11:48.439
<v Speaker 3>That this is really cool. It's like this giant spear

1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:50.680
<v Speaker 3>that he's made, but he never had the courage to

1:11:50.800 --> 1:11:53.800
<v Speaker 3>use it himself. And Galen sees it. He says it's

1:11:53.800 --> 1:11:57.280
<v Speaker 3>a beautiful weapon, but he it will be useless unless

1:11:57.280 --> 1:11:59.720
<v Speaker 3>he unless he has the amulet back. That's the only

1:11:59.760 --> 1:12:02.200
<v Speaker 3>way he can, like, I think, infuse it with the

1:12:02.240 --> 1:12:04.120
<v Speaker 3>power it needs to fight the dragon.

1:12:04.600 --> 1:12:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:12:05.360 --> 1:12:08.000
<v Speaker 3>Then we get the big lottery scene where they're gonna

1:12:08.120 --> 1:12:11.439
<v Speaker 3>select who has to face the dragon next and who

1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:13.800
<v Speaker 3>gets picked. When they pull the tiles out of the

1:12:13.800 --> 1:12:18.320
<v Speaker 3>big pot, why it's Elsbeth, the princess. The king tries

1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:21.040
<v Speaker 3>to say, like, no, no, no, my minister read the

1:12:21.120 --> 1:12:23.559
<v Speaker 3>name on the tile wrong. Let us draw another tile,

1:12:23.680 --> 1:12:27.439
<v Speaker 3>But all the tiles say Elsbeth. In fact, she arranged

1:12:27.479 --> 1:12:30.639
<v Speaker 3>it that way because she thinks it's only fair given

1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:34.000
<v Speaker 3>that she has been protected unfairly all these years past.

1:12:34.400 --> 1:12:38.320
<v Speaker 3>There's no changing it. She's now selected. The king is desperate,

1:12:38.360 --> 1:12:41.080
<v Speaker 3>trying to talk anybody into helping him get out of this,

1:12:41.160 --> 1:12:44.200
<v Speaker 3>Like he tries to talk Tyrian into saying, let's figure

1:12:44.240 --> 1:12:47.040
<v Speaker 3>something else out. It can't be her, But Tyrian's like, yeah,

1:12:47.240 --> 1:12:48.200
<v Speaker 3>it seems fair to me.

1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:51.639
<v Speaker 2>This is a great sequence, And I love how I mean,

1:12:51.640 --> 1:12:53.679
<v Speaker 2>first of all, for plot reasons they do it this way,

1:12:53.720 --> 1:12:56.760
<v Speaker 2>but also I think it plays into the overall theme

1:12:56.800 --> 1:12:59.519
<v Speaker 2>of the picture. There's this sense that the lottery is

1:12:59.560 --> 1:13:02.760
<v Speaker 2>this thing that, once it has been created, is no

1:13:02.840 --> 1:13:06.800
<v Speaker 2>longer entirely in control, in the control of the king

1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and his men, you know, Like there's this energy between

1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:14.719
<v Speaker 2>the king and his men and the crowd, like they're channing,

1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:17.040
<v Speaker 2>stir the tiles, stir the tiles with kind of urgency,

1:13:17.160 --> 1:13:18.960
<v Speaker 2>like you know, obviously like stir it up. You've got

1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:20.759
<v Speaker 2>to make sure it's fair, got to make sure it's fair.

1:13:20.800 --> 1:13:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Like it's this great kind of semi chaotic feeling that

1:13:24.960 --> 1:13:27.879
<v Speaker 2>things could get out of hand very easily.

1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.960
<v Speaker 3>That's right. It's almost like the people themselves have a

1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:34.760
<v Speaker 3>frenzy for the outcome of the lottery selection. So the

1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:38.960
<v Speaker 3>king feels utterly helpless, like he can't really and it's

1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:42.000
<v Speaker 3>happened in public, so he can't really undo it. So

1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:45.120
<v Speaker 3>he thinks of the only other thing that occurs to

1:13:45.200 --> 1:13:48.200
<v Speaker 3>him is we have to actually kill the dragon. So

1:13:48.240 --> 1:13:51.800
<v Speaker 3>he catches Galen, having snuck back into the castle looking

1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:54.360
<v Speaker 3>for his amulet. He catches him and he begs him,

1:13:54.400 --> 1:13:56.760
<v Speaker 3>and he says, you can have your amulet back if

1:13:56.800 --> 1:13:59.920
<v Speaker 3>you kill the dragon and save Elspeth. So Galen is

1:14:00.080 --> 1:14:02.240
<v Speaker 3>and given like official sanction. Now we see him and

1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:06.360
<v Speaker 3>the blacksmith trying to like magically fire the dragon slayer weapon,

1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:10.479
<v Speaker 3>like using the amulet to power up the spear. I

1:14:10.520 --> 1:14:12.439
<v Speaker 3>love the following scene. By the way, there's a scene

1:14:12.479 --> 1:14:16.160
<v Speaker 3>where Valerian goes up up the mountain to collect scales

1:14:16.439 --> 1:14:20.960
<v Speaker 3>from the dragon to make for Galen a dragon scale

1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.800
<v Speaker 3>shield that he can use to face vermath Rax. Oh,

1:14:24.800 --> 1:14:27.240
<v Speaker 3>and also while she's up there, she discovers there are

1:14:27.280 --> 1:14:29.920
<v Speaker 3>baby dragons in the cave and they are also scary

1:14:29.960 --> 1:14:31.360
<v Speaker 3>and must also be destroyed.

1:14:31.720 --> 1:14:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they are not cute and they and I say

1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:37.479
<v Speaker 2>this lovingly, they have some real Gromlin energy. They did.

1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:40.640
<v Speaker 2>It's great. So this is definite puppetry used here, but

1:14:40.720 --> 1:14:41.439
<v Speaker 2>to great effect.

1:14:41.640 --> 1:14:44.479
<v Speaker 3>These Vermras babies would be popping out of a toilet

1:14:44.560 --> 1:14:49.519
<v Speaker 3>in another movie or another movie cover some VHS box art.

1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:53.880
<v Speaker 3>But also here we get the culmination of a I think,

1:14:53.920 --> 1:14:57.200
<v Speaker 3>if I'm going to be fully honest, a somewhat underdeveloped

1:14:57.240 --> 1:14:59.919
<v Speaker 3>love story. But you know what, it's fine. It's fantasy adventure.

1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:02.360
<v Speaker 2>There's just kind of like acknowledge it, like we we're

1:15:02.520 --> 1:15:05.160
<v Speaker 2>most of the way into this picture. We love each other, right, yeah, yeah,

1:15:05.200 --> 1:15:05.639
<v Speaker 2>of course we.

1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Did, right. Galen and Valerian they announced their love with

1:15:08.680 --> 1:15:11.519
<v Speaker 3>the in love with each other. Valerian initially thinks, oh, Galen,

1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:14.040
<v Speaker 3>you must be in love with the princess, but he's like, no, no, no,

1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:15.840
<v Speaker 3>I love you a good thing.

1:15:16.360 --> 1:15:19.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, silly doc. That relationship hasn't been established either.

1:15:29.080 --> 1:15:33.040
<v Speaker 3>This all leads up to the Great Final Confrontation, where

1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:36.200
<v Speaker 3>where Elsbeth is taken up to be sacrificed to the dragon.

1:15:36.920 --> 1:15:40.599
<v Speaker 3>Galen appears and announces his intention to kill the dragon first,

1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:44.760
<v Speaker 3>and everybody runs away in fear, everyone but Tyrian, and

1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:47.840
<v Speaker 3>Tyrian says, you know, this is the way, and if

1:15:47.880 --> 1:15:51.240
<v Speaker 3>you intend to interfere with the sacrifice, I will stop you.

1:15:51.960 --> 1:15:55.320
<v Speaker 3>And they fight, and initially Galen is not a fighter,

1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:57.840
<v Speaker 3>he's not trained to, you know, fight a captain of

1:15:57.880 --> 1:16:01.240
<v Speaker 3>the King's guard, but through a combination of pluck and luck,

1:16:01.320 --> 1:16:03.160
<v Speaker 3>he does prevail in this duel.

1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:06.960
<v Speaker 2>He also has a magical spear weapon, which he doesn't

1:16:06.960 --> 1:16:09.800
<v Speaker 2>completely know how to use, but it is a magical weapon.

1:16:09.840 --> 1:16:12.320
<v Speaker 3>So he's got like a plus three on this baby exactly.

1:16:13.240 --> 1:16:16.160
<v Speaker 3>So the princess, Yeah, it's funny. It's like it's a

1:16:16.200 --> 1:16:19.920
<v Speaker 3>hand to hand combat battle between what would you say,

1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:25.080
<v Speaker 3>like a level six fighter versus a level two sorcerer. Yeah,

1:16:25.120 --> 1:16:28.120
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, he has a magical weapon, so it makes

1:16:28.160 --> 1:16:30.559
<v Speaker 3>up the difference. Ah, But it was kind of all

1:16:30.600 --> 1:16:34.560
<v Speaker 3>for nothing here because the princess determined to be a sacrifice.

1:16:34.560 --> 1:16:37.000
<v Speaker 3>She's like, no, it's got to happen. She runs into

1:16:37.040 --> 1:16:40.880
<v Speaker 3>the cave and then Galen runs in after her, and

1:16:41.200 --> 1:16:47.080
<v Speaker 3>in a really shockingly unexpected and horrifying scene, the princess

1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:51.240
<v Speaker 3>is in there just being like eaten up by baby dragons.

1:16:51.240 --> 1:16:54.240
<v Speaker 3>They're just like tearing off her limbs and eating them.

1:16:54.520 --> 1:16:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they have what They've killed her and are now

1:16:57.240 --> 1:16:58.240
<v Speaker 2>like taking her apart.

1:16:58.960 --> 1:16:59.800
<v Speaker 3>Unbelievable.

1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:04.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, these little like disgusting little gromlins, and yeah, it's

1:17:04.640 --> 1:17:09.120
<v Speaker 2>really a daring choice for again, a Disney co produced

1:17:10.400 --> 1:17:14.080
<v Speaker 2>fantasy answer to Star Wars picture. I remember the Yeah,

1:17:14.280 --> 1:17:17.439
<v Speaker 2>the director in commentary with Del Toro kind of said,

1:17:17.479 --> 1:17:18.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's a lot of stuff we got away

1:17:18.920 --> 1:17:22.080
<v Speaker 2>with in this in part because we were making a

1:17:22.080 --> 1:17:27.839
<v Speaker 2>film abroad and you know, so far from from studio heads,

1:17:28.240 --> 1:17:30.080
<v Speaker 2>and so they you know, they weren't getting dailies. They

1:17:30.080 --> 1:17:32.640
<v Speaker 2>didn't know that, you know, we had, you know, the

1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:34.320
<v Speaker 2>way we were shooting some of these choices.

1:17:35.360 --> 1:17:37.639
<v Speaker 3>Well, the movie is the more remarkable for it these

1:17:37.680 --> 1:17:38.360
<v Speaker 3>are choices.

1:17:38.600 --> 1:17:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:17:38.960 --> 1:17:42.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So Galen goes in and fights the baby dragons

1:17:43.200 --> 1:17:46.120
<v Speaker 3>and he defeats them pretty easily, but then he goes

1:17:46.160 --> 1:17:49.960
<v Speaker 3>deeper into the cave and finds a burning lake. Now

1:17:50.000 --> 1:17:52.080
<v Speaker 3>that meant something to me when I saw it, but

1:17:52.280 --> 1:17:55.240
<v Speaker 3>apparently Galen doesn't really remember at this point, like, oh, yeah,

1:17:55.280 --> 1:17:58.680
<v Speaker 3>that's significant. It will come up again. But there's a

1:17:58.680 --> 1:18:02.519
<v Speaker 3>big confrontation here between Galen and Vermathrax. They have their

1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:05.600
<v Speaker 3>first big fight and the dragon in the scene is

1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:09.840
<v Speaker 3>finally revealed in all of its hideous glory and wow, Rob,

1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:12.600
<v Speaker 3>would you like to say anything about what what vermuthrax

1:18:12.680 --> 1:18:14.000
<v Speaker 3>looks like when revealed?

1:18:14.120 --> 1:18:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I mean, there's so many ways to approach it.

1:18:15.800 --> 1:18:17.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean the simple thing to say is like, this

1:18:17.680 --> 1:18:21.640
<v Speaker 2>is a real dragon, like you feel. Yeah, you can

1:18:21.680 --> 1:18:25.040
<v Speaker 2>put your mind in the appreciating the special effects and

1:18:25.080 --> 1:18:26.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to see all the things they've done to bring

1:18:26.920 --> 1:18:29.120
<v Speaker 2>this dragon to life. But for most of this it

1:18:29.200 --> 1:18:33.479
<v Speaker 2>just feels like a real creature. And they make so

1:18:33.560 --> 1:18:36.440
<v Speaker 2>many wonderful choices in the design to make that possible,

1:18:36.479 --> 1:18:40.880
<v Speaker 2>things like making sure that is a quadruped that it

1:18:41.360 --> 1:18:47.240
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have like four limbs plus wings. Its front limbs

1:18:47.280 --> 1:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>are wings and therefore when it's crawling around in the cave,

1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:52.280
<v Speaker 2>it's moving like a bat on.

1:18:52.160 --> 1:18:55.320
<v Speaker 3>The ground, the bat comparison. That's great. The way the

1:18:55.360 --> 1:18:58.880
<v Speaker 3>wings are folded as it crawls and ugh yeah yeah.

1:18:58.920 --> 1:19:01.639
<v Speaker 2>And then the way they've shape the head. A lot

1:19:01.640 --> 1:19:03.840
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of folks have pointed out like it

1:19:03.880 --> 1:19:06.360
<v Speaker 2>has this kind of brow, so it has a lot

1:19:06.400 --> 1:19:12.280
<v Speaker 2>of like I want to say, personality, but personality befitting

1:19:12.439 --> 1:19:16.479
<v Speaker 2>a great beastly dragon like this. You know, there is

1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:18.519
<v Speaker 2>an animal intelligence there.

1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:20.800
<v Speaker 3>It reminds me a bit of a skexis.

1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think it's a solid comparison.

1:19:23.760 --> 1:19:26.519
<v Speaker 3>So they fight and they there's a bunch that goes

1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:28.320
<v Speaker 3>on in this fight. They get their jabs in, it

1:19:28.360 --> 1:19:31.639
<v Speaker 3>blows fire and all that, but it's a stalemate here.

1:19:31.680 --> 1:19:34.320
<v Speaker 3>The fight is not fully resolved. And the next day

1:19:34.360 --> 1:19:37.480
<v Speaker 3>Valerian goes up the mountain and she finds Galen unconscious

1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:39.599
<v Speaker 3>on the rocks. She wakes him and takes him back,

1:19:39.600 --> 1:19:41.679
<v Speaker 3>but he is still alive, and so is the dragon.

1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:46.160
<v Speaker 3>So at this point, Valerian's father talks them into leaving

1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:48.479
<v Speaker 3>or Land. He's like, you know, y'all are young, you're

1:19:48.520 --> 1:19:51.120
<v Speaker 3>in love. Just live in peace, go somewhere else and

1:19:51.160 --> 1:19:54.880
<v Speaker 3>share your love, he says. He says, magic magicians. It's

1:19:54.920 --> 1:19:57.760
<v Speaker 3>all fading from the world, all dying out. That makes

1:19:57.760 --> 1:20:00.800
<v Speaker 3>me happy. That means the dragons will be eyeing out too.

1:20:01.240 --> 1:20:03.760
<v Speaker 3>And they try to leave. They take their stuff and

1:20:03.800 --> 1:20:06.120
<v Speaker 3>they start loading up a boat to go live their

1:20:06.160 --> 1:20:10.200
<v Speaker 3>life somewhere else. But then something changes. There's a darkness

1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:13.880
<v Speaker 3>growing in the sky and it is a total solar eclipse.

1:20:15.080 --> 1:20:18.080
<v Speaker 3>And here's your eclipse. Tie in the eclipse. I don't

1:20:18.080 --> 1:20:21.000
<v Speaker 3>know if maybe I miss something about this, if they

1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:24.320
<v Speaker 3>said it had any particular magical effect on the dragon.

1:20:24.479 --> 1:20:26.960
<v Speaker 3>But one thing it does seem to do is cause

1:20:27.080 --> 1:20:31.919
<v Speaker 3>Galen to remember that his master Ulrich wanted his ashes

1:20:31.960 --> 1:20:34.599
<v Speaker 3>to be thrown into the burning lake, and he remembers

1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:37.800
<v Speaker 3>there was a lake of fire inside the Dragon's cave.

1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:41.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was. My wife watched this movie with me

1:20:41.840 --> 1:20:44.200
<v Speaker 2>for rewatch it. She had seen it before many years ago,

1:20:44.920 --> 1:20:47.280
<v Speaker 2>and afterwards we were like, yeah, did anybody say there

1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:49.599
<v Speaker 2>was going to be an eclipse? Is that factored into

1:20:49.640 --> 1:20:51.360
<v Speaker 2>the plot at all? It does very much feel like

1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:54.559
<v Speaker 2>and then a total So a total solar eclipse happens

1:20:54.800 --> 1:20:56.360
<v Speaker 2>because it looks awesome.

1:20:57.280 --> 1:20:59.960
<v Speaker 3>It does look awesome, and there is a total solar

1:21:00.080 --> 1:21:03.040
<v Speaker 3>clips going on for the entire rest of the showdown

1:21:03.080 --> 1:21:03.719
<v Speaker 3>with the Dragon.

1:21:04.160 --> 1:21:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like it's a solid twenty minutes of totality.

1:21:07.560 --> 1:21:12.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So Galen does remember this. He does as he

1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:15.559
<v Speaker 3>was instructed. He goes back up to the Dragon's cave,

1:21:15.720 --> 1:21:19.360
<v Speaker 3>goes inside, throws the ashes into the water, and in

1:21:19.400 --> 1:21:23.679
<v Speaker 3>a cradle of green fire, Ulric is resurrected. He's back.

1:21:23.840 --> 1:21:27.760
<v Speaker 3>The power of the Dragon's fiery lake like brought him

1:21:27.800 --> 1:21:30.559
<v Speaker 3>back from the dead, at least temporarily so he can

1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:32.840
<v Speaker 3>face the dragon with them.

1:21:33.040 --> 1:21:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I have to say, I wasn't sure this was gonna happen.

1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:38.000
<v Speaker 2>It's easy to in retrospect expect this to happen, but

1:21:39.120 --> 1:21:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Ulric's death early in the picture just felt so final

1:21:42.280 --> 1:21:48.160
<v Speaker 2>and so yeah, Mundane like it just the film worked.

1:21:48.560 --> 1:21:51.080
<v Speaker 2>The trick worked here, and I really wasn't expecting him

1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:51.639
<v Speaker 2>to come back.

1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:54.360
<v Speaker 3>Meanwhile, you know, back down in the village, this is

1:21:54.360 --> 1:21:56.800
<v Speaker 3>when one of the guys is converted to Christianity, the

1:21:56.800 --> 1:22:00.800
<v Speaker 3>gray old guy, and he's baptizing everybody. Yeah, and then

1:22:00.800 --> 1:22:03.000
<v Speaker 3>we get the final showdown. So now it is vermath

1:22:03.040 --> 1:22:07.400
<v Speaker 3>Rax versus the three of our heroes, Galen, Valerian and Ulrich,

1:22:08.360 --> 1:22:11.000
<v Speaker 3>and so Ulrich goes up on like a mountain peak

1:22:11.080 --> 1:22:14.439
<v Speaker 3>and he's casting down lightning bolts at the dragon and

1:22:14.479 --> 1:22:17.880
<v Speaker 3>the dragon is dive bombing him. Vermathrax is like flying

1:22:17.920 --> 1:22:20.200
<v Speaker 3>by the dragon in the scene, has a kind of

1:22:20.360 --> 1:22:22.800
<v Speaker 3>jet fighter quality to him, you know what I mean?

1:22:23.439 --> 1:22:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And I believe it was one of the

1:22:25.400 --> 1:22:29.040
<v Speaker 2>extras with Phil Tippit talking about though I it might

1:22:29.080 --> 1:22:30.679
<v Speaker 2>have been Phil Tippit. But I don't think Phil Tippitt

1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:34.519
<v Speaker 2>did these effects sequences so much. I mean, he was

1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I think therefore it, but he was. I think he

1:22:36.800 --> 1:22:38.920
<v Speaker 2>did with some of the other stuff more. But they

1:22:38.920 --> 1:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>did talk about how, like most of the scenes of

1:22:41.680 --> 1:22:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the dragon in flight, you're not getting that flapping, sort

1:22:44.320 --> 1:22:48.639
<v Speaker 2>of labored takeoff effect that we've seen in other dragon films.

1:22:48.680 --> 1:22:52.200
<v Speaker 2>This is a dragon like swooping down from peaks and

1:22:52.280 --> 1:22:55.920
<v Speaker 2>indeed flying with this kind of like fighter jet kind

1:22:55.920 --> 1:22:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of severity, so we are very effective.

1:22:59.160 --> 1:23:01.879
<v Speaker 3>It's almost like you can hear a jet engine roaring

1:23:01.960 --> 1:23:04.879
<v Speaker 3>as he goes by, and he goes by so fast.

1:23:07.439 --> 1:23:09.400
<v Speaker 3>A lot of other movie dragons have more of a

1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:11.960
<v Speaker 3>helicopter quality, you know, they just kind of like hover

1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:15.320
<v Speaker 3>around somewhere. This one like swoops, he goes really fast.

1:23:16.360 --> 1:23:18.760
<v Speaker 3>And what Galen and Valiering have been told to do

1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:21.840
<v Speaker 3>is to smash the magical amulet at the right time.

1:23:21.880 --> 1:23:23.599
<v Speaker 3>They're going to know when it's the right time, and

1:23:24.160 --> 1:23:26.960
<v Speaker 3>ultimately Ulric is snatched up by the dragon. He's being

1:23:27.000 --> 1:23:30.040
<v Speaker 3>carried away. They know, okay, it's the time. Now they

1:23:30.120 --> 1:23:34.520
<v Speaker 3>smash the amulet, and this apparently has like a detonation

1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:39.200
<v Speaker 3>effect on Ulric. That's like the detonator for Ulric's resurrected form,

1:23:39.640 --> 1:23:43.560
<v Speaker 3>and it blows up the dragon. The eclipse ends, Vermuthrax

1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:47.360
<v Speaker 3>is dead. There's a big, gory, charred skeleton laying on

1:23:47.400 --> 1:23:50.080
<v Speaker 3>the ground, and who gets credit. Well, they bring the

1:23:50.160 --> 1:23:52.000
<v Speaker 3>king in, They like bring him up in a in

1:23:52.040 --> 1:23:55.400
<v Speaker 3>a carriage and they hand him a sword and he

1:23:55.439 --> 1:23:57.639
<v Speaker 3>stands there and he just kind of pokes the corpse

1:23:57.680 --> 1:23:59.880
<v Speaker 3>of the dragon and they're like congratulations.

1:24:01.040 --> 1:24:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, So he ends up appropriating the church, the kingship,

1:24:07.840 --> 1:24:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the rulers, as Del Toro puts it, the man co

1:24:11.920 --> 1:24:17.240
<v Speaker 2>ops everything completely, completely claims all the credit for the

1:24:17.320 --> 1:24:19.000
<v Speaker 2>victory over the dragon.

1:24:19.200 --> 1:24:23.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah that's right. The now baptized villagers come up and say, ah,

1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:27.640
<v Speaker 3>just the church that saved us from the dragon. But

1:24:27.800 --> 1:24:29.760
<v Speaker 3>there's also a nice ending where we see Galen and

1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:32.400
<v Speaker 3>Valeria and they're still in love. They've survived this and

1:24:32.400 --> 1:24:34.559
<v Speaker 3>they get to travel on together and who knows what

1:24:34.640 --> 1:24:37.760
<v Speaker 3>kind of adventures of pagan sorcery they can get up

1:24:37.800 --> 1:24:39.840
<v Speaker 3>to in this rapidly christianizing land.

1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:42.920
<v Speaker 2>The end, yeah, their final there's this final bit where

1:24:42.920 --> 1:24:45.240
<v Speaker 2>they sort of accidentally summon a horse, like a really

1:24:45.240 --> 1:24:48.160
<v Speaker 2>beautiful horse, which is you know, it's it's a little

1:24:48.160 --> 1:24:50.160
<v Speaker 2>bit kind of like cheesey ended on a nice note,

1:24:50.200 --> 1:24:52.400
<v Speaker 2>but also I like it. I was talking about this

1:24:52.439 --> 1:24:54.559
<v Speaker 2>with my wife. It's she was like, yeah, it's kind

1:24:54.560 --> 1:24:56.559
<v Speaker 2>of like there is still magic, it's just a different

1:24:56.600 --> 1:25:01.000
<v Speaker 2>type of magic, you know. And and so the world,

1:25:01.080 --> 1:25:03.280
<v Speaker 2>at least for these two characters, is not going to

1:25:03.320 --> 1:25:05.679
<v Speaker 2>be devoid of magic, but maybe magic ends up taking

1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:06.439
<v Speaker 2>a different form.

1:25:06.920 --> 1:25:12.120
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it increasingly looks less and less like hidden forces

1:25:12.160 --> 1:25:15.760
<v Speaker 3>operating and more and more like luck. Yeah, anyway, that's

1:25:15.800 --> 1:25:18.439
<v Speaker 3>what I have on Dragon Slayer. But I'm glad you

1:25:18.479 --> 1:25:21.360
<v Speaker 3>picked this one, Rob. I really really liked it. Yeah.

1:25:21.439 --> 1:25:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean credit to my wife for because I

1:25:24.000 --> 1:25:25.640
<v Speaker 2>was I was looking at a number of things for

1:25:25.720 --> 1:25:27.120
<v Speaker 2>this week and she was like, well, we got to

1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:30.840
<v Speaker 2>watch an Eclipse movie do Dragon Slayer? And so I

1:25:30.880 --> 1:25:33.120
<v Speaker 2>was like like, well maybe, and she's like, I'll watch

1:25:33.120 --> 1:25:36.439
<v Speaker 2>it with you. I'm like, okay, So she doesn't always

1:25:36.560 --> 1:25:39.320
<v Speaker 2>always watch him with me. It's a lot to ask.

1:25:40.120 --> 1:25:42.559
<v Speaker 2>So so yeah, this was a lot of fun. Oh

1:25:42.560 --> 1:25:44.360
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I forgot to mention and mention the

1:25:44.400 --> 1:25:46.679
<v Speaker 2>special effects. I do want to call out that one

1:25:46.720 --> 1:25:48.760
<v Speaker 2>of the main individuals credited with the design of the

1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:52.599
<v Speaker 2>dragon and also the typeface was man by the name

1:25:52.640 --> 1:25:56.800
<v Speaker 2>of David Bunnett, who you know, I think also worked

1:25:56.800 --> 1:26:00.599
<v Speaker 2>in like the video game industry, but yeah, he It's

1:26:00.640 --> 1:26:03.240
<v Speaker 2>even said that if you look at a picture of

1:26:03.240 --> 1:26:07.160
<v Speaker 2>this guy, the dragon kind of looks like a self caricature,

1:26:07.720 --> 1:26:09.840
<v Speaker 2>like there's sort of elements of his face, like his

1:26:09.960 --> 1:26:15.280
<v Speaker 2>brow and the dragon. So anyway, you know, it's a

1:26:15.320 --> 1:26:18.519
<v Speaker 2>credit where credits do there? He had a hand in

1:26:18.600 --> 1:26:24.360
<v Speaker 2>designing this tremendous dragon whoa Verma thrax pajorative.

1:26:24.520 --> 1:26:27.000
<v Speaker 3>A finer name has never been conjured.

1:26:29.560 --> 1:26:31.800
<v Speaker 2>All right, we'll go and close it up here then,

1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:33.640
<v Speaker 2>but we'd love to hear from everyone out there. Do

1:26:33.720 --> 1:26:37.840
<v Speaker 2>you have memories of seeing Dragon Slayer for the first time,

1:26:37.920 --> 1:26:42.599
<v Speaker 2>be that in a theater, on video or like on

1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:44.960
<v Speaker 2>a Sunday afternoon on A and E. I think they

1:26:44.960 --> 1:26:48.280
<v Speaker 2>were they aired it there. I remember seeing promos for it.

1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Write in. We would love to hear from you. Just

1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:54.519
<v Speaker 2>a reminder that Weird House Cinema is the Friday episode

1:26:54.520 --> 1:26:55.920
<v Speaker 2>that we published in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind

1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.640
<v Speaker 2>podcast feed. We're primarily a science and culture podcasts, but

1:26:58.720 --> 1:27:01.000
<v Speaker 2>on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to just

1:27:01.040 --> 1:27:03.639
<v Speaker 2>talk about a weird film here on Weird House Cinema.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you want to see a list of all

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<v Speaker 2>the movies we've covered over the years, go to letterbox

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<v Speaker 2>dot com. It's l E T T E R b

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<v Speaker 2>oo x d dot com. Look for us. Our username

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<v Speaker 2>is weird House. You'll find a list of everything we've

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<v Speaker 2>covered and sometimes a glimpse at what's coming up next.

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<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

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<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

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<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:28.240
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hi,

1:27:28.400 --> 1:27:31.120
<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.