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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Friday, September the twenty six

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Speaker 1: and we here at Amy and TJ don't normally dedicate

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Speaker 1: an episode to an execution that's taken place in the

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Speaker 1: United States, but we are making an exception because this

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Speaker 1: was an exceptional and heartbreaking and really unbelievable case. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to this episode of Amy and TJ. Bottom line and

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Speaker 1: execution Robes was carried out last night in Alabama, and

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Speaker 1: it was against the strong, powerful public please of the

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Speaker 1: man whose mother was murdered by this conflict, he has

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Speaker 1: been begging the state not to kill this man and Robes.

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Speaker 1: Last night they went forward.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Jeffrey West, fifty year old Jeffrey West was declared dead

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Speaker 3: at six twenty two pm Central Time last night at

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Speaker 3: the William C. Holman Correctional Facility. This happened in at Moore, Alabama.

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Speaker 3: And yes, he was executed. You nitrogen gas. This was

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Speaker 3: first used in Alabama last year. Correct, that was the

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Speaker 3: first incident of nitrogen gas. It's a new option, so

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Speaker 3: to speak. It sounds awful to say that, but a

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Speaker 3: new option for inmates who are on death row. They

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Speaker 3: get to choose the way the manner in which they

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Speaker 3: are executed, and this.

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Speaker 1: Got a lot of attention in the nitrogen gas. We'll

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Speaker 1: tell you how that went last night and why that

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Speaker 1: has been so controversial, But the case itself controversial just

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Speaker 1: for that. I mean, he killed a woman in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven who had two sons, one of them was

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Speaker 1: eleven years old at the time, and that eleven year

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Speaker 1: old is now what in his thirties and has been begging,

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Speaker 1: begging the state not to kill this man. In itself,

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Speaker 1: we've seen cases like this before, this one still kind

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Speaker 1: of stood out where the family of the victim is

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Speaker 1: advocating that the state not put the inmate to death.

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Speaker 1: His pleas and his reasons rose made this case so

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking that you find yourself rooting for a death row

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Speaker 1: inmate's life to be spared, because that's what the victim wants,

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Speaker 1: and you couldn't help by listening to Will Barry make

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Speaker 1: this case, you couldn't help but feel his pain.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we actually did a podcast on this earlier

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Speaker 3: because his words were so moving, his forgiveness so inspiring,

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Speaker 3: and the reasons he gave for anyone who values life,

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Speaker 3: and I would imagine that's everyone listening here made a

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Speaker 3: lot of sense because do we give people, do we

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Speaker 3: honor people because they've done horrible things, if they've turned

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Speaker 3: their life around, if they're sorry for what they did,

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Speaker 3: and if they can have an impact on people, if

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Speaker 3: they could actually touch the lives of people before they

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Speaker 3: make mistakes like they did, if they could actually have

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Speaker 3: a positive, positive impact on the world. Is there not

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Speaker 3: value then into letting that person, yes, still be punished,

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Speaker 3: remain behind bars, but actually do good and make up

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Speaker 3: for the bad.

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Speaker 1: I'm on board everything you said about the possibility of

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Speaker 1: there being value to this person's life. I think that's

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Speaker 1: harder for the public to get on board with thinking

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Speaker 1: that a murderer, a guy who shot a woman who

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Speaker 1: was laying on the floor behind a counter, shot her

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Speaker 1: in the head so there wouldn't be any witnesses. It's

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Speaker 1: hard for any of us to look and go, okay,

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Speaker 1: that human being has value somewhere down the road. That's

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Speaker 1: a harder lift, but it's an easier lift when you

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Speaker 1: hear Will Barry say why he doesn't want this man killed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was an leven year old boy who

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Speaker 1: lost his mom and he said, this has been the

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Speaker 1: most painful thing that has shaped his life. He argued

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Speaker 1: that the thing that could help him Robes was to

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Speaker 1: get closure, to meet with West, to pray with West,

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Speaker 1: to forgive West. He actually said he needed that, and

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Speaker 1: it's been denied him. That's the part that I think

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Speaker 1: all of us as human beings have to look. You

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Speaker 1: don't feel sorry for the killer, but you feel sorry

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Speaker 1: for Will Barry.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 3: And if this country, our legal system are justice system

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Speaker 3: has historically and repeatedly and currently not valued or not

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Speaker 3: even considered the feelings, And I would argue it should

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Speaker 3: be the rights of victims to have a say in

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Speaker 3: what happens in punishing the person responsible for their pain.

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Speaker 1: I'd be on board with that one hundred percent. If

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Speaker 1: somebody is getting the death penalty and the victim's family

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Speaker 1: steps forward and says we don't want this to happen,

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Speaker 1: I think that should be a done deal. I agree

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Speaker 1: be okay with them getting that Right now, the governor,

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Speaker 1: who Will Berry appealed to to please commute this sentence,

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Speaker 1: say hey, my hands are tied by the law. I

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Speaker 1: am here to carry out the law for the people

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Speaker 1: of Alabama. So it was a weird response in that

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Speaker 1: it seems like, no, we know better than what you

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Speaker 1: who's been most impacted by this, We know better than you.

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Speaker 2: I because she could have. I mean, she's saying she couldn't,

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Speaker 2: but she could have.

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Speaker 3: That is just the truth. That is her discretion as

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Speaker 3: governor to make that call. She knows she'd be feeling

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Speaker 3: some heed for it, and she knows certain people and

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Speaker 3: a lot of folks might be upset about it, but

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Speaker 3: she still her she had the right to make her

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Speaker 3: decision based on her own moral conscience.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we're not I guess you know what

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Speaker 1: you say? That is that not what we're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be dealing with here. Is there no room for moral

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Speaker 1: consciousness when we're talking about death penalty, when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about punishing someone who did some of the most heinous

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Speaker 1: crimes we heard of? Is there any place for that?

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Speaker 3: I think there is, And I think that's why we

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Speaker 3: give governors the right at the very last minute, up

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Speaker 3: until the minute before the execution is set to begin,

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Speaker 3: there was a phone right there in the room, and

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Speaker 3: the governor can call up until the minute before and

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Speaker 3: can offer a reprieve or a stay of execution.

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Speaker 1: And a reminder here that what has happened, and this

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Speaker 1: was why we first started covering this story and got

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Speaker 1: so interested in it, is that West, yes, West, the murderer,

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Speaker 1: and will Barry, the son who was eleven. You ten

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Speaker 1: years separate them in age.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was twenty one when he can the crime

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Speaker 3: when he murdered his mother. So the two men are

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Speaker 3: only ten years apart.

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Speaker 1: They've been exchanging letters in which Very extended forgiveness to

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Speaker 1: the man who killed his mother and West extended an

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Speaker 1: apology since silwell, he said it was a sincere apology

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Speaker 1: for killing him. This is the relationship they've built, and

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Speaker 1: they wanted to meet and they wouldn't allow it. My

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Speaker 1: first thing, well why not, what's the big deal? Well,

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Speaker 1: it is a big deal.

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Speaker 3: Yes, there is security issues, and that does make sense

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Speaker 3: because they can't have victims, family members or friends of

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Speaker 3: the victim meet with the convicted murderer of said family

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Speaker 3: member because there's concern that violence could erupt and you

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Speaker 3: could say one thing and then do another when you

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Speaker 3: get into the prison. So just as a matter of

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Speaker 3: public safety and certainly security there at the prison, they

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Speaker 3: have a rule against that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to exact revenge in my name

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Speaker 1: nor in my mother's. This guy has really for a

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Speaker 1: while been on a campaign to try to spit this

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Speaker 1: man's life, and it did not happen. Now we're gonna

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Speaker 1: give you a couple of the details, and again this

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Speaker 1: is Look, this is a year we've had thirty three

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Speaker 1: plus executions in this country. That's the highest number we've

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Speaker 1: seen in some ten plus years, and another nine or

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Speaker 1: ten scheduled for this year. So we're just on a

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Speaker 1: pace and a lot of it has to do robed

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Speaker 1: with For a while, some of the drugs were in

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Speaker 1: question and caught up in quart are they cruel and unusual,

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Speaker 1: So a lot of states didn't have the tools to

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Speaker 1: execute anybody. So now they've got new resources and now

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Speaker 1: we're seeing uptick in some of the options they have.

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Speaker 1: We had what was it last year this year the

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Speaker 1: firing squad, expiring squad, So this has been going on.

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Speaker 1: So nitrogen gas the process essentially put a mask over

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Speaker 1: your face and you're only breathing in this nitrogen gas.

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Speaker 1: You're being denied oxygen, which is what the body needs

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Speaker 1: to survive, so every cell in your body is getting

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Speaker 1: cut off. Someone described it I saw it's like your

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Speaker 1: inside being like cryovect like you're just shrink And they

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Speaker 1: talk about how painful this could possibly be. We don't

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Speaker 1: obviously know. But last night, this all got started right

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Speaker 1: before six o'clock. And this is how the process what

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Speaker 1: you've done.

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Speaker 2: I have witnessed and execution.

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Speaker 3: I witnessed a lethal injection when I was twenty three

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Speaker 3: years old, a man who had been on death row

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Speaker 3: for twenty seven years. And I can tell you from

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Speaker 3: my own personal observations it was not gentle, it was

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Speaker 3: not peaceful, and it certainly looked very painful. It was

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Speaker 3: lethal injection, and I think this is one of the

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Speaker 3: reasons why that method had been called into question in

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Speaker 3: terms of the order that the drugs were given, the

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Speaker 3: type of drugs that were given. But I saw this

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Speaker 3: man his chest shot up. He was actually making noises,

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Speaker 3: moaning and gurgling in pain. It was wildly difficult to

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Speaker 3: witness and watch. So this execution that happened last night,

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Speaker 3: the curtain opened, and yeah, they have curtains. I mean

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Speaker 3: that was my experience as well. It's very much like

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Speaker 3: what you see in the movie is it happens in

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Speaker 3: real life. The curtain opened at five point fifty two two,

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Speaker 3: West was situated so he was facing the viewing room,

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Speaker 3: and the warden read the execution warrant, and the warden

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Speaker 3: did ask him, as they do every time, do you

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Speaker 3: have any last words?

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Speaker 2: And West responded, no, sir.

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Speaker 1: He did have We'll share this with you in a second.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't have any words then, but he did

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Speaker 1: have a statement that was released by his lawyer afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Were going to share that in just a.

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Speaker 3: Moment, yes, So then Wes gave a nod to the

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Speaker 3: priest who was in the room with him, father Patrick Badden,

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Speaker 3: he had just converted to Catholicism this past year, and

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Speaker 3: gave a thumbs up to his attorney in the viewing room.

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Speaker 3: And so then at five fifty five the correction officer

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Speaker 3: came in checked the seal on the gas mask, and

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Speaker 3: then Father Madden was able to step in to West

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Speaker 3: for a quick prayer.

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Speaker 2: And the folks who.

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Speaker 3: Were in the room, and they usually they always have

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Speaker 3: a member of the media there because that's a part

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Speaker 3: of the process so that they can say what they saw.

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Speaker 3: They are official witnesses. And according to them, Wes coughed

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Speaker 3: and then gasped, and then his head went to this

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Speaker 3: he was described as appearing to foam at the mouth,

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Speaker 3: and then it was at six oh one he started

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Speaker 3: to take deep.

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Speaker 2: Breaths that turned to shallow.

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Speaker 3: Five minutes later, at six oh six, witnesses say his

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Speaker 3: torso pulsed and then he appeared to stop moving. Soon

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Speaker 3: after that, at six seventeen, the curtains.

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Speaker 1: Closed, and then we got the official word later that

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Speaker 1: six twenty two is when he was declared dead. Now,

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Speaker 1: they came out afterwards and a lot of questions about

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Speaker 1: the nitrogen gas that was used. They said it has

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Speaker 1: been different every time. I think it's the fifth or

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Speaker 1: sixth time they've done it in Alabama in the past

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Speaker 1: figure I believe in the past two years. And they

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Speaker 1: say every time the inmate, the body reacts differently. But

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Speaker 1: they said this was the least amount of movement that

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Speaker 1: they have seen in all of those six executions. They

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Speaker 1: said all the movements they believe were involuntary by the body.

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Speaker 1: And they say he was not feeling or experiencing any

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Speaker 1: of this or doing all of this on his own.

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Speaker 1: But that is what happened in that room last night. Now,

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Speaker 1: he did not say anything that moment. I think that's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: You have any last words and you actually say no,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to say anything.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time that is what happens.

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Speaker 1: That I say no, sir. But we always hear about

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Speaker 1: the ones when there is something that they say. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: they say something crazy when they are A guy.

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Speaker 2: Said something Trump, Yes, yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: Well this guy didn't say anything then, but he did

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Speaker 1: have a statement he released I'll excuse me, his attorney

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Speaker 1: released back.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine, I mean no, what it would be

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Speaker 3: like to know these are the last things coming out

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Speaker 3: of my mouth.

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Speaker 2: You'd want to get it right. So maybe that is

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Speaker 2: why he chose.

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Speaker 3: To put it in a statement that he wrote, instead

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Speaker 3: of something that he would have to memorize and might

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Speaker 3: not say correctly. So this was West's final statement. It

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Speaker 3: starts with three very powerful words with a period. I

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Speaker 3: am sorry period. I have apologized privately to the family

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Speaker 3: of Margaret Parish Barry and am humbled by the forgiveness

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Speaker 3: her son Will has extended. I was baptized into the

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Speaker 3: Catholic Church earlier this year and confirmed yesterday. I am

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Speaker 3: at peace because I know where I am going and

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Speaker 3: look forward to seeing missus Barry when I get there.

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Speaker 3: I urge everyone, a special young people to find God,

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Speaker 3: spend a few moments to consider the two possibilities. This

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Speaker 3: was all a fluke, or there was a creator and

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Speaker 3: a reason for everything. Your choice will determine where you

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Speaker 3: spend eternity.

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Speaker 2: God bless you all.

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Speaker 1: I know nothing of him other than the crime he committed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know before I read that statement who this

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Speaker 1: guy is now, because that flies in the face of

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Speaker 1: the crime, which by all accounts, I say all accounts

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Speaker 1: at least from the family will Barry. He said this

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Speaker 1: was a guy who was on the right path and

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Speaker 1: who was a good dude who had a detour something

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Speaker 1: went wrong in his life. He was open to forgiveness

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Speaker 1: and understanding that maybe this wasn't a terrible guy. Maybe

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Speaker 1: there's a good guy who did a bad thing. For

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Speaker 1: him to even be able to separate that as the

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Speaker 1: victim is amazing to me. But I don't I know.

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Speaker 1: Some folks quick to dismiss this is a convicted killer.

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Speaker 1: He shot the woman in the head. Who gives a

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Speaker 1: damn what he has to say? Maybe we should, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, yeah, considering the fact that he's twenty one years

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Speaker 3: old when he committed the crime. I'm not accusing that,

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Speaker 3: but twenty one twenty one is a big, big difference

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Speaker 3: than you know. I wonder if he had been twenty

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Speaker 3: or nineteen or eighteen. I know they can still try

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Speaker 3: you as an adult, but still he had just entered

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Speaker 3: his first year of official adulthood.

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Speaker 1: Again, we are not no one'll ever make any use

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Speaker 1: at all, but it's just interesting to think about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the people we end up learning most from the people

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Speaker 1: who have made mistakes, were screwed up the most. And yes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes people have done horrendous things like this. But to

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Speaker 1: hear his statement and in his final thing to say

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Speaker 1: to the earth is that he wished to see this

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Speaker 1: woman that he killed and to talk about forgiveness and

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Speaker 1: encourage others. I don't know. I know some people are

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Speaker 1: dismiss I just think as powerful as moving and it's

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Speaker 1: important and I'm glad to have it and see it.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad Will Barry brought this to our attention. We

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Speaker 1: look at it, we.

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Speaker 2: Can learn from this.

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Speaker 3: And in West's final days, we know that he had

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Speaker 3: several visitors, including his mom who is still alive, his father,

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Speaker 3: his pastor, his cousin, his brother, his nephew's like his

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Speaker 3: family all came to meet with him, which is pretty

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Speaker 3: cool that there's still a relationship there and that they

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Speaker 3: saw the value in what he was able to evolve

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Speaker 3: into over the years. His final meal, everyone always wants

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Speaker 3: to know that chicken.

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Speaker 2: Quesadilla is always interesting. Yeah, everyone makes a different choice.

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Speaker 2: I would never have picked that one. I never would

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Speaker 2: have guessed that one. How about that?

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good way. You expecting the steak and

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Speaker 1: potato or something like that. But that was his final meal.

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Speaker 1: But we want to tell you also we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about Will Barry again, the kid that was eleven years

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Speaker 1: old when this man killed his mom. Well, Barry has

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Speaker 1: been fighting and fighting for a while trying to keep

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Speaker 1: West from being executed. Well after it happen happened last night,

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Speaker 1: he put out a statement as well. We want you

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Speaker 1: to hear what he had to say after the State

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Speaker 1: of Alabama took from him something he he desperately needed

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Speaker 1: for healing in his life.

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Speaker 3: Continuing now, on this episode of Amy and TJ, we

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Speaker 3: are talking about the execution by nitrogen gas. This of

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Speaker 3: course happened to in Alabama.

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Speaker 2: This was.

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Speaker 3: An execution we have been talking about for some time.

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Speaker 3: But this was an unusual execution because here we have

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Speaker 3: the victim's son, who was eleven years old at the

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Speaker 3: time that his mother was murdered, asking for the state

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Speaker 3: to spare this man's life, to spare the man's life

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Speaker 3: who killed his mother, and those pleased to the governor

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Speaker 3: and to anyone who would listen. Unfortunately went unanswered, and

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Speaker 3: the execution was carried out last night around six pm

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Speaker 3: Central time.

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Speaker 1: They're doing their duty. We're not speaking as anyone here

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Speaker 1: or who has we think they did something wrong in

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Speaker 1: terms of the case, in terms of the law. It

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Speaker 1: is just from a human standpoint when you hear the

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Speaker 1: pleas of a man who says he needs this in

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Speaker 1: his life in some way to help with his healing process.

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Speaker 1: That's been going on since he was eleven years old,

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Speaker 1: and so now it's gone, the opportunity is gone. That

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Speaker 1: just sucks for him.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so Jeffrey West was in fact executed, and Will

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Speaker 3: Barry after that execution, released this statement. Well, he said

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Speaker 3: vengeance isn't for the state, it's for the Lord. When

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Speaker 3: did he say that.

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Speaker 1: He said that this week on the step of the Capitol.

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Speaker 1: They were there delivering a petition saying, please spare his life.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so then his statement reads as follows, we are

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Speaker 3: stunned that this is happening. Please convey our condolences to

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Speaker 3: his mother and the rest of his family. From what

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Speaker 3: we understand, he acted out of character that night. People

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Speaker 3: he grew up with said he was a good person

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Speaker 3: who got off track. We pray that he gains peace

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Speaker 3: when he meets his maker. What a beautiful statement to

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Speaker 3: offer condolences to the man's mother who murdered your mother.

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Speaker 2: That is remarkable.

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Speaker 1: You could you could understand a tendency to look at

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Speaker 1: the family and go and hate them like you raise

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Speaker 1: this monster. Look what he did to my family. There

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Speaker 1: is something, Yes, I'll go back to Erica Kirk. There

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Speaker 1: is something in forgiveness. There is something, And we talked

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Speaker 1: about this faith you got. There is a certain level

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Speaker 1: of faith in people that I think allows for this

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Speaker 1: type of forgiveness. This type bro, we're not saying I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry or forgive you for stealing my candy out of

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Speaker 1: the drawer. We're not saying I'm sorry for breaking my heart.

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Speaker 1: When I say, is you murdered somebody that was everything

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Speaker 1: to me and I forgive you Jesus.

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Speaker 3: And I am offering condolences now to your family because

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Speaker 3: I didn't think that you should die, and I hope

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Speaker 3: and pray that you'll be okay. I mean that that's

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Speaker 3: even an extra level to.

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Speaker 2: Then offer condolences. I thought that was incredibly powerful.

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Speaker 1: So I for Austin, for this story. There's just lessons here,

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Speaker 1: and there have been several of these lately, like I

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Speaker 1: just don't know. And I heard Erica Kerr. I think

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Speaker 1: Erica Kirk had a lot of people thinking about forgiveness. Yes,

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Speaker 1: not something to that level of course what was taken

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Speaker 1: from her, but all in our lives. And this is

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Speaker 1: a story where these people were talking to ether like

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Speaker 1: human beings, not like killers, not like anything other than

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Speaker 1: human beings. And life is precious and why kill another one?

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Speaker 1: Why lose another one? If there's value to his life,

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Speaker 1: even if it was for one person only, then that

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Speaker 1: life should have been spared.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and will Berry just said very much so to

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Speaker 3: why compound a tragedy with another tragedy? I mean, he

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Speaker 3: made that point very very clear. I do think we've

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Speaker 3: had so many tough headlines about revenge, about political politically

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Speaker 3: motivated killings. But then in the wake of all of that,

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Speaker 3: we have seen exceptional moments of forgiveness. And so if

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Speaker 3: we can and take that lesson, if we can look

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Speaker 3: at those lessons and the impact that those can have

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Speaker 3: versus the violence, but just the forgiveness and the ability

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Speaker 3: to extend grace, that's the silver lining.

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Speaker 1: You just nailed it, all right, That's it right there.

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Speaker 1: That's what I've been trying to say this whole episode.

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Speaker 1: You really saying that you in Washington, you can't say

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Speaker 1: a nice thing about the guy and the other party,

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Speaker 1: but the guy whose mom was killed by Jeffrey West

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Speaker 1: is willing to forgive him, but you can't get along

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Speaker 1: with the Democratic senator or Republican represent.

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Speaker 2: Star former FBI direction.

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Speaker 1: We got a yes, they are setting examples for our leaders,

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Speaker 1: who are the ones who should be setting the examples

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Speaker 1: for us. So this is a tragic but beautiful story

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Speaker 1: and lessons within it. I think Will Berry for being

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Speaker 1: willing to share so publicly what he's been going on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Will Barry, Erica Kirk, thank you for being bright

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Speaker 3: lights in an otherwise pretty dark couple of weeks. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for that, and we hope that gives you some hope,

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Speaker 3: some inspiration and maybe a new way to look at things.

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Speaker 3: It certainly has for us. And with that, thank you

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Speaker 3: for listening. I'm Amy Roboch alongside TJ.

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Speaker 2: Holmes.

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Speaker 3: Have a great day, everybody,