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Speaker 1: Over twenty years as a lawman, Medal a Valor, four children,

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Speaker 1: and now this married a lawman is busted for not

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Speaker 1: a double life, but a triple life, maybe even a

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Speaker 1: quadruple life. Oh, somebody is going to jail. Before becoming

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Speaker 1: police chief, Jason Collier was awarded the Medal of Valor

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Speaker 1: by the State of Texas in twenty sixteen. This was

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Speaker 1: for helping save the life of a fellow officer. Tonight

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Speaker 1: he's at the center of a criminal investigation. A woman

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Speaker 1: who says she was a Collier's fiance is now warning

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Speaker 1: a small Texas town there Now former chief is living

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Speaker 1: a double life? Is it a crime to cheat? Is

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Speaker 1: it a crime to have one wife then divorce marion

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Speaker 1: other wife, then get engaged, then have a girlfriend. What

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Speaker 1: And that's just the tip of the iceberg that we

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Speaker 1: know about right now. With me an all star panel

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Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again.

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Speaker 1: And yes, there are criminal charges brewing, something about forged

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Speaker 1: documents allegedly with me former prosecutor turn defense attorney Darryl

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Speaker 1: Cohen with Cohen Cooper, Estep and Allen at cca L

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Speaker 1: Law dot com. Renowned Psychoana's joining me out of Beverly

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Speaker 1: Hills is doctor Bethany Marshall. You can find her at

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. She's a star of a

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Speaker 1: new Netflix show, Bling Empire. Former police chief johns Creek

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Speaker 1: twenty five years on the fours now PI at Chris

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Speaker 1: Bias Investigations and polygraph dot Com, Crime online dot Com.

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Speaker 1: Investigative reporter Levi Page, host of Crime and Scandal Troop,

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Speaker 1: True Crime prodcast and special guests. Are joining us today

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Speaker 1: Debbie Montgomery Johnson. Now listen to this about Debbie Montgomery Johnson,

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Speaker 1: US Air Force veteran former intelligence officer at the Pentagon,

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Speaker 1: author of The Woman Behind a Smile. You can find

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Speaker 1: that on Amazon, and also was defrauded out of about

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Speaker 1: a million dollars by a pos that's a technical legal term,

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Speaker 1: man that wooed her and convinced her of all sorts

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Speaker 1: of lies. This woman an intelligence officer with the Pentagon.

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Speaker 1: So if it could happen to her, what does that

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Speaker 1: say for the rest of us? Jackie, I'm married off

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Speaker 1: the market, but you have trouble. I mean, what have

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Speaker 1: you run into this year? The police chief? Okay, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Crime online dot com.

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Speaker 1: Jason Collier has been married twice and has four children,

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Speaker 1: two with his ex wife and two with his current wife. Opal.

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Speaker 1: The thirty nine year old has worked in several Texas

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Speaker 1: police departments in a variety of positions. He's been an officer,

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Speaker 1: a detective, and twice named a chief of police, once

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Speaker 1: in the Sunray Police Department for a very short period

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Speaker 1: of time, and then the Stenate Police Department. He has

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Speaker 1: more than twenty one years of law enforcement experience. He's

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Speaker 1: also a State of Texas Medal of Valor recipient. He

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Speaker 1: was awarded the honor during his time in the city

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Speaker 1: of Pampa. During a standoff, Callier and two other officers

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Speaker 1: helped drag a wounded officer to safety. Callier rounds out

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Speaker 1: his resume with this, he is an ordained minister. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they just had to get that in at the end.

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Speaker 1: He's also an ordained minister. Okay. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: really know where to stop, but let the start. Let

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Speaker 1: me just start with Levipay's crime online dot com investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: the former State Police Department chief Jason Collier. He's thirty nine.

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Speaker 1: He's just thirty nine, and he's done all this already

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Speaker 1: taken into custody on Thursday after his alleged girlfriend accused

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Speaker 1: him of cheating. You know what, it's not a pretty picture,

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Speaker 1: but as far as I know, Levi Page, cheating on

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Speaker 1: your girlfriend is not a felony. What happened, well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that's not the issue. It's what he did to his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend when he was cheating on her. So he sent

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Speaker 1: her a text message he's married, and it was a

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Speaker 1: fraudulent government record and annulment and it was forged it

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Speaker 1: with faith and that is a crime in the state

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Speaker 1: of Texas well, just so you know, that's a crime

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Speaker 1: anywhere to forge a court document. Let me understand this,

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Speaker 1: Levi Page. The allegation is, I'm sure he's denying it

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Speaker 1: that he showed via text the girlfriend or the fiace

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Speaker 1: or one of the women he's got on the string,

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Speaker 1: and annulment from his second wife, and it's not real,

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Speaker 1: it's fake, correct, And that the charge that he's facing

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Speaker 1: is tampering with a government record to defraud our arm.

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Speaker 1: He's out on bond, but he was arrested. The bond

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Speaker 1: was ten thousand dollars and in texts of a person

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Speaker 1: that's convicted of that Nancy. It's a felony. They face

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty days to two years behind bars.

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Speaker 1: That'll be fun, okay. Now the charge is faking a

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Speaker 1: government document. Guys, take a listen to our cut one.

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Speaker 1: This is Cassie Stanford KF dat V. Mrila if Senetta

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Speaker 1: says Police Chief Jason Collier has been placed on administrative leave.

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Speaker 1: In a statement, the city says it's aware of the

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Speaker 1: current situation surrounding Collier, and although they won't specifically comment

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Speaker 1: on what he's being investigated for, they say they're taking

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Speaker 1: the situation seriously and are looking into any violations of

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Speaker 1: city policy. Collier became the police chief last February. He

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Speaker 1: came to the department with twenty one years of law

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Speaker 1: enforcement experience. The chief buyers with me former Chief John's

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Speaker 1: Creek Chris Buyers twenty five years as a police officer.

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Speaker 1: You know, Chief, I've dealt with a lot of cops.

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Speaker 1: I mean, day in, day out, Atlanta PD, detectives, Fulton

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Speaker 1: County sheriffs, caught from all over the world, really flying

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Speaker 1: in on some of our cases. Experts and you know what,

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of cheap and cops. But this

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Speaker 1: really takes the cake. Chief. This guy is a police chief.

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Speaker 1: What how did he think he could hide all those women? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: once you become that position of police chief, it's everything

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Speaker 1: that you do comes into like you have to really

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Speaker 1: live above board, as you should as a police officer

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Speaker 1: all the time, but especially when you step into that

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Speaker 1: top cop role. You're a target for everybody and you

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Speaker 1: need to be above board. And all I can say is,

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Speaker 1: you know this department from looking at their statistics, a

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Speaker 1: very small department, which which concerns me too of how

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Speaker 1: much of a background investigation they do? You know, are

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Speaker 1: they doing psychologicals? Are they doing are they doing polygraphs

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Speaker 1: on their applicants? I mean it should not be somehow

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Speaker 1: are you somehow trying to blame the government for letting

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Speaker 1: him be police chief? What they didn't vet him enough?

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Speaker 1: I think the vetting didn't go below the belt, if

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Speaker 1: you understand what I'm meaning. I don't think they checked

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Speaker 1: that part of his anatomy out. Debbie Montgomery Johnson with me.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what you and doctor Bethany have

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Speaker 1: to say about this. I mean, Debbie, you are former

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Speaker 1: intelligence with a Pentagon and got defrauded of about a

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Speaker 1: million dollars from a guy, a lying guy. What do

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Speaker 1: you have to say about this? It happens, and it's

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Speaker 1: really unfortunate. And I'm looking at this from the law

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Speaker 1: enforcement man im uniform, position of trust, position of power,

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Speaker 1: and the deceit. It can happen to the best of us,

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Speaker 1: and I just I feel terrible for her, But from

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Speaker 1: a victim, as a victim's advocate, I don't want her

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Speaker 1: to apologize for speaking up. And I think that's where

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Speaker 1: I was a little bit graped, is that when I

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Speaker 1: saw her apologizing, I'm like, NoHo apologize. I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: anybody who apologized. I read that. I think it Sisily

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Speaker 1: was apologizing for outing this, and I'm like, don't apologize.

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Speaker 1: This has to it has to happen. And okay, wait wait,

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Speaker 1: I totally respect you, Dabby, but I need a shrink

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Speaker 1: right now. Explain she's right. She's right, Doctor Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 1: One of these women apologized for outing this lowdown sheeting

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Speaker 1: p O s. Okay, they apologize for outing him? How

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Speaker 1: did he get so? Bass Ackwards Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about not just a cop but the

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Speaker 1: chief of Police Stinant, the Stenant Police Department Chief thirty

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Speaker 1: nine year old Jason Collier, correct me if I'm wrong, LEVI,

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Speaker 1: but he had the one wife, then the second wife

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Speaker 1: that's legal, then a girlfriend that's legal, then a fiance

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Speaker 1: that's legal. Still nobody's committed a crime until the allegation

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Speaker 1: that he frauded faked an annulment from the second wife.

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Speaker 1: I guess it showed to his girlfriend that he was free.

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Speaker 1: That is that what he's charged with. You're correct, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: And just to catch our listeners up. Sicily Stimmet is

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Speaker 1: the woman that went to Facebook and she posted I'm

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Speaker 1: engaged at Jason Collier. She was very happy. She went

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Speaker 1: to bed at night, woke up the next morning, got

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Speaker 1: a message from one of her friends and said he

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Speaker 1: is married. I'm friends with his wife on Facebook. She

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Speaker 1: confronted him, she said, you're married. How could you do

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Speaker 1: this to me? And that's when he sent her this

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Speaker 1: fake annulment documentary. Okay, lev you got me to drinking

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Speaker 1: from the fire hydrant here. It's just too much at once.

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Speaker 1: Tell me that again. This is like the best details

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Speaker 1: so far. Let me understand this. The fiance Cecily Steinmetz,

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Speaker 1: thirty nine year old Amarillo woman on January twenty six

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Speaker 1: post on Facebook, we're engaged? Right? Is that how it happened? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And a friend of her said I'm friends with his

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Speaker 1: wife on Facebook. He is married and she she confronted him.

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Speaker 1: He said the marriage is annulled. He sent her this

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Speaker 1: fake document. I knowed. Wait wait wait wait wait, I knowed.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what the two children have to say about that.

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Speaker 1: Hold On Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense attorney, renowned

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Speaker 1: practices all over the country. Cohen, how can you get married?

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Speaker 1: And this guy, as Crime Online pointed out, is an

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Speaker 1: ordained minister? How can you get married, have two children

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Speaker 1: with your wife and then get an annulment? Can somebody

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Speaker 1: tell me about that? Because I'm an Now, how do

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Speaker 1: you do that? Absolutely, you live in an alternative universe,

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Speaker 1: and you, in your own mind go one place, and

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Speaker 1: you in your body and everyone else goes in another.

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Speaker 1: On Nancy, he is so embroiled in his lies that

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Speaker 1: he has to make up a story to cover all

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Speaker 1: of his lives. So what I tell all of my clients,

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Speaker 1: all of them. If you tell the truth, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to remember what you said, and you clearly don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about Facebook or Twitter or any other

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Speaker 1: social media whereby when you tell a lie it gets

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Speaker 1: their folks. And this guy is just playing stupid. He

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Speaker 1: probably needs to be psychlo that's true. But objaction your honor?

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Speaker 1: My question, do you, Daryl? That's not responsive to the question.

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Speaker 1: The question was how can you get married, have two

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Speaker 1: children with your wife and then get an annoyment? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm a Methodist. We don't really do annulments that much.

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Speaker 1: Don't you do that in the Catholic Church? Okay? How

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Speaker 1: do you get an annulment with two children? Looking at you? What?

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Speaker 1: Every law, every law I know of, says, once you've

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Speaker 1: consummated the marriage, and I believe two children, he may

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Speaker 1: have sex. I do once you've had sex, and of

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Speaker 1: course if there's one child, and then you double that

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Speaker 1: and you have two children. Annulments may happen in the

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Speaker 1: future for a different spouse, but not for this one.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, So when he's called on it, have

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Speaker 1: you ever seen, doctor Bethany people get caught in a

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Speaker 1: lie and then they come up with another lie and

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Speaker 1: another Well yeah, yeah, yeah, I was married to her.

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Speaker 1: But now we're annulled. Now here's here's my enormous say.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to text it to you. He just comes

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Speaker 1: up with another fabrication, Nancy. Okay, we know Daryl Cohen

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Speaker 1: is a man, and he just used a couple of phrases.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure too, So just keep that in Yes,

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Speaker 1: that he shouldn't lie, and he lives in an alternative

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Speaker 1: universe and he needs to be psychoanalyzed. That's that the

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Speaker 1: man who cheats and says it didn't mean anything to me.

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Speaker 1: Those coots are so trite. Let's get to the heart

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Speaker 1: of it. I would imagine if you look into the

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Speaker 1: psyche of this man, he is the type of guy

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Speaker 1: who had firm control or over each of these three women.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise how he could he get away with three separate lives.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very interested in double lives. We see men

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Speaker 1: in my practice and women who do have double lives.

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Speaker 1: Usually it's a man, I hate to say it. Women

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Speaker 1: have double lives. Usually it's they're running up the credit card,

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Speaker 1: whether husbands at work. So it's not a sexual double life,

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Speaker 1: or it's in a romantic double life, but it's never

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Speaker 1: a complete life with another man, which is what Collier

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Speaker 1: is doing. I think he's the kind of guy who

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Speaker 1: had each woman under his firm control. They couldn't have friends,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't go out. Remember one of the women visited

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Speaker 1: him at work. She asked to meet his coworkers, and

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Speaker 1: he said, I wouldn't. I don't like those bitches, something

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Speaker 1: like that. So he discouraged her from meeting other people

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Speaker 1: in his life, kept each life circumscribed. I thought those

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Speaker 1: women didn't even have friends, and yet he's going out

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Speaker 1: and doing whatever he wants to do. That's sociopathy. This

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Speaker 1: is not well. He probably did that. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: this to you. Debbie Montgomery Johnson, they author of The

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Speaker 1: Woman Behind the Smile dot com that's available on Amazon. Debbie,

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Speaker 1: I want to follow up on what doctor Bethany's saying

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Speaker 1: that he had tight control over these women. I think

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Speaker 1: realistically speaking, practically speaking, he did not want their whorlds

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Speaker 1: to collide or even intersect, and they only intersected when

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Speaker 1: the new fiance posted on Facebook. His wife may have

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Speaker 1: never met the fiance, neither of them may have ever

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Speaker 1: meant the girl. I guess what the girl he had

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Speaker 1: a lover on the side. Okay, I don't know where

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Speaker 1: he got the energy, but that's not the question. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he thought those lives would intersect. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he didn't because they're in different places. You know, the

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Speaker 1: women were not in the same town and for the

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Speaker 1: most part, and an online you presume that no one's

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Speaker 1: going to know who you are. But again on mine,

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Speaker 1: everybody in the world can know who you are. And

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Speaker 1: that's you know, that's his biggest mistake was that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: pictures taken with these women, and it was silly for

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Speaker 1: him not to have thought it. You know who else

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Speaker 1: Scott in trouble over a picture Scott Peterson. Remember Lacy Peterson,

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Speaker 1: nine months pregnant, had her feet up at a Christmas

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Speaker 1: party she had to go to alone. And then a

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Speaker 1: photo emerges of Scott Peterson with a Santa han On

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Speaker 1: with his hand on Amber Fry's rare end in a

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Speaker 1: red satin, gorgeous dress that came back to haunt him.

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Speaker 1: Why do people take pictures of their wrong doings? That's

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Speaker 1: a whole other psychopathy. I want to make a note

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Speaker 1: on that for you, doctor Bethany, but I want you

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Speaker 1: to take a listen to Vania Patino W B. RC

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Speaker 1: Fox six R Cut seventeen. Listen. It all started with

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Speaker 1: this picture. Cecilia was ready and happy to make her

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Speaker 1: relationship official by sharing it to her family and on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: She went to sleep that night, not thinking that post

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Speaker 1: would turn everything into a nightmare. And then I woke

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Speaker 1: up the next morning to a text from a very

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Speaker 1: good friend. She said, Okay, I know where I know

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Speaker 1: I'm from. She goes, I'm friends completely shocked, she could

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Speaker 1: not believe it, as they had spend so much time together.

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Speaker 1: This is a ring video of one of the many

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Speaker 1: times she says he would visit her while still on

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Speaker 1: the clock. Not only that, but she says he had

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Speaker 1: met her family, had their picture up in his office,

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Speaker 1: and even went as far as asking her to pick

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Speaker 1: out an engagement ring. Wow, you were just hearing from

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Speaker 1: our friends at w BRC Fox six. I'm just thinking,

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Speaker 1: how did he pull that off? To you? Chief buyers.

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Speaker 1: So he's got her picture up at the office, but

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Speaker 1: yet he doesn't really allow all the women to come

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Speaker 1: to his office that much. He met her her family,

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Speaker 1: I bet she didn't meet his and had even asked

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Speaker 1: her to pick out an engagement ring. Isn't that something

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Speaker 1: you do together or no, no, doesn't the guy pick

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Speaker 1: out the engagement ring and present it or you pick

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Speaker 1: it out together. It's not hey, hey baby, go swing

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Speaker 1: by Walmart and pick up an engagement ring, okay, and

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Speaker 1: I'll pay for it. I didn't think that's how it

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Speaker 1: was supposed to work, cheap buyers, and that's how it

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Speaker 1: worked for me. I went and picked it out and

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Speaker 1: gave it to you to my wife. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just thinking about pictures in his office. I mean, all

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Speaker 1: I can think is he had different pictures of each

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Speaker 1: of the women in his life and had to, you know,

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Speaker 1: put him on his desk depending on what was going on.

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Speaker 1: That David Man just absolutely ridiculous. You know, this is

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Speaker 1: totally gonna be a lifetime movie. I can just see

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Speaker 1: it coming because of what you just said. I could

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Speaker 1: just see him arranging his office as soon as one

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Speaker 1: leaves and the other one is coming in. You know.

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Speaker 1: Debbie Montgomery jos and US Air Force Vett, former intelligence

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Speaker 1: officer at the Pentagon. You can find her the woman

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Speaker 1: behind the Smile dot com. It's also on Amazon. Debbi,

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Speaker 1: how did the guy that defrauded you out of a

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Speaker 1: million dollars do it? What? About him made you believe him. Oh,

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Speaker 1: everything about him. You know, I lost my husband and

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Speaker 1: I was home alone, and he became my lifeline. I

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Speaker 1: was very isolated. I ran in my own company from

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Speaker 1: the house, and he became Like I said, he became

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Speaker 1: my life. He was the guy that I was online

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Speaker 1: with for hours every day. When I would question something,

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Speaker 1: he would always have a plausible answer. When I asked

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Speaker 1: my girlfriends and they're like, oh, don't, don't, don't, or

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Speaker 1: my kids don't, don't don't. I went to him and

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Speaker 1: he said, deb this is ABCND and he always had

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Speaker 1: a really good answer. And like I said, he became

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Speaker 1: my life, became part of my family. And with becoming

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Speaker 1: part of my family, I trusted him. I had no

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Speaker 1: reason not to trust. I didn't know that there were

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Speaker 1: online scammers back then, and I've certainly changed over the years.

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Speaker 1: But they isolate you from your friends and family and

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Speaker 1: don't want you to and don't let them. They stayers

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Speaker 1: take over your life. Because he's very positive. He was

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Speaker 1: giving me everything I wanted to hear, everything you know

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to see, and the hope that I

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Speaker 1: would have a future again with another man. And so

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Speaker 1: that's how they do it. They just really in and

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Speaker 1: it's the grooming period and you want to feel loved

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Speaker 1: by something like that. And today especially we're looking for

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Speaker 1: companionship and it's only online in a lot of places,

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Speaker 1: and it's very dangerous right now Clime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the chief of police there, instant

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Speaker 1: Jason Collier. He is in a whole heap of trouble

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Speaker 1: women trouble. You know that is really negating the intent

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Speaker 1: behind us because now he's looking at a felony of

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Speaker 1: defrauding a woman in the sense that he allegedly faked

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Speaker 1: an annulment to keep up his double and triple life.

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Speaker 1: Jackie is waving a sign at me that she thinks

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Speaker 1: there are at least seven women involved. You mean all

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Yes, that's juggling seven at the

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Speaker 1: same time. You know, no offense ly by page. But

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Speaker 1: I think you left out of you because you've only

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Speaker 1: told me about three. But hold on, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our cut eighteen. This is Vanilla Patino w b

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Speaker 1: RC Fox Listen. I asked him, you know, well, how

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Speaker 1: could you do this? And he's like, I said, you

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Speaker 1: just met my family and everything. I said, so, why

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Speaker 1: are you doing this? He's like, no, babe, No, He's like,

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Speaker 1: do you think I would actually meet your family and

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Speaker 1: your kids? You know, if I weren't serious, you know,

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Speaker 1: and if I were married, and again made me feel

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Speaker 1: bad for questioning him. She confronted him about the marriage

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Speaker 1: and he claimed he was divorced. He even showed her

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Speaker 1: this document scene it was the annulment. After she made

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Speaker 1: a public records request, she found out it was a

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Speaker 1: fake document and that is what beget an investigation and

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Speaker 1: ultimately left to his arrest. Just like Debbie Montgomery, Johnson

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Speaker 1: was saying the woman behind the smile dot com defound

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Speaker 1: out of a million dollars, there would always be an answer.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall A why do people take incriminating photos

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Speaker 1: of themselves like Scott Peterson, like this guy. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's the photo they're getting engaged. Bam, it's out there

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Speaker 1: at number one. And how do they always have an answer?

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Speaker 1: Like when the fiance, I guess you could call her

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Speaker 1: fiance although legally she's not questioned him. He came up

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Speaker 1: with a fake annulment document. According to police. Yes see,

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Speaker 1: because they're manipulative. You know, think about it like a

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Speaker 1: four or five year old child who wants a lollipop

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Speaker 1: or something like that. They're going to come up with

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Speaker 1: every answer in the book for mommy to get that lollipop,

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Speaker 1: because they only have one goal in mind. And for

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Speaker 1: any of your listeners out there who are dating somebody

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Speaker 1: who begins by idealization, putting them on a pedestal telling

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Speaker 1: them that they're better than any other person that they

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Speaker 1: have ever met, the most beautiful, the most incredible. Then

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Speaker 1: they start to isolate them from family and friends. And

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Speaker 1: then when the woman starts to question, you know, little

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Speaker 1: discrepancies or things that don't add up, they have immediate answers.

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Speaker 1: When there's a quality of always being maneuvered by the

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Speaker 1: other person. Booth then signed that you might be falling

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Speaker 1: victim to a scam. And of course the fourth trait is,

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Speaker 1: you know they once had a fortune, but now they've

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Speaker 1: lost it. They have a huge inheritance in England, but

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Speaker 1: all these horrible family members are keeping them from getting

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Speaker 1: the inheritance. So they just need a little loan to

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Speaker 1: tide them over. You know, these kinds of things. Also,

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Speaker 1: the fact that the world doesn't understand them. They can't

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Speaker 1: introduce you to other people in their life because they

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Speaker 1: have horrible people surrounding them who don't understand them. So

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Speaker 1: they're going to segregate themselves and you from everybody else.

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Speaker 1: So you're on your own little island. Yeahs, take a

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Speaker 1: listen again to our friends at w b RC Fox six.

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Speaker 1: I felt a large amount of trust due to his position.

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Speaker 1: She decided to end the relationship and move on, but

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Speaker 1: says she later found out he had also been dating

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Speaker 1: another woman while he was with her. I couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 1: I would never dream you know that there was a

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Speaker 1: whole another person, I mean a whole another person that

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Speaker 1: he was engaged to. She says she did not think

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Speaker 1: it was right for the chief police to feel so

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Speaker 1: comfortable lying, and decided to post her story on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Little did she know at least seven other women would

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Speaker 1: also claim they were in a relationship with him. Okay,

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Speaker 1: leave page. You've totally been holding out on me. Seven women.

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Speaker 1: But how many engagements does he have? I thought this

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Speaker 1: was a real I would I have to go back

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Speaker 1: to the shrink on this one. In a moment, the

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Speaker 1: woman says, Okay, the wife is one thing, but he

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Speaker 1: couldn't believe he had another girlfriend. Well, how can how

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Speaker 1: can you accept that there's a wife or maybe she

407
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: didn't know at all? Who knew about what? And where

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Speaker 1: does the number seven come in? After Cecily Steinmitzen put

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Speaker 1: her post on Facebook, she was contacted by another woman

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Speaker 1: named Christie Shafer. The post say she was engaged or

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Speaker 1: the post telling the story telling the story note that

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Speaker 1: she was engaged. She when she posted her story, she

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Speaker 1: talked about Christie Schaefer, who also said she was engaged

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Speaker 1: as well. So there were two engagements. And then there

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Speaker 1: was another woman that came forward. Her name is Angie

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Speaker 1: Cocktail Bauman, and she said that his behavior dates back

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Speaker 1: to two thousand and seven because she was with him

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Speaker 1: when he was married as well, and she found out

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Speaker 1: that he was married and left him. That still doesn't

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Speaker 1: equal seven. Where is the number seven coming from other

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Speaker 1: women that commented and have come forward on social media?

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Speaker 1: Lord in Heaven, Well, I want the fiances and the

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Speaker 1: wife to take heart. It's not them. If an intelligence

424
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: officer at the Pentagon can get duped by a guy

425
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: to the chune of a million dollars, I mean it

426
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: can happen to her, it can happen to anybody now,

427
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: proving that I want you to hear Mike hole Field

428
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: at New six Orlando. Think you'll ever find him? No.

429
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: I wish to god I could PostScript from a once

430
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: wealthy widow. I went through my bank statements and it

431
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: was two hundred and seventy thousand dollars. You love this guy? Yeah,

432
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: and he told me he was in love with me,

433
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: looking for a real relationship. They met on match dot com.

434
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: Check out match right now for free. I've talked to

435
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: a million people. That's something that people on e harmony

436
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: on match and they're happily married. And so I didn't

437
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: have any reason to question it. You thought this was it.

438
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: She knew him as Jerry Michael aka Darnell Michael. Diane

439
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: says he told her he was a divorced German CEO

440
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: of a California construction project. This is the only voice

441
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: message she saved, h Graham, How are you doing? This

442
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: is is Jerry? Could you please call me right actual

443
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: piece than you. He would call from four different FRO numbers,

444
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: always in need of money. It was mostly lawyer fees,

445
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: bail money. L six tract those numbers to Bakersfield, California.

446
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: One had a familiar voice on the recording. Thank you

447
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: very much, please live men you know, give up to you.

448
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: Thank you. It turns out Diane Standish had been catfished.

449
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: That is a fancy phrase for getting ripped off by

450
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: somebody meat online. But what about others? Take a listen

451
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: to our friend doctor Phil and our cut thirteen speaking

452
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,719
Speaker 1: to Roxane Lewis Randall. Describe his personality when you met him.

453
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: He was very charming and kind and just really nice.

454
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: Was there a point that you said, he's flirting with me,

455
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: just engaging in a lot of conversation. He was just funny,

456
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: he was witty. We've just kind of clicked. Did you

457
00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: know what his marital status was? I did? Actually, what

458
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 1: did you understand that they were still married? They had

459
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: been living in your separate lives and what he said,

460
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: were you a secret? I don't think I was fully.

461
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that his wife know about you? Yes? Yeah?

462
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: Did she object? I don't know. She's after all of this,

463
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: she said that they've never even talked about a divorce,

464
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: that that's not ever even been mentioned. So she now

465
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: tells a different story. Yeah, so he said they were

466
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: they were living the only they had just not finished

467
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: the divorce process, so you didn't see yourself as the

468
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: other woman here. Now, well, if you're not finished with

469
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: a divorce process, I mean you're still married. Bam. There's

470
00:29:53,440 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: really no other way to put it. Crime Stories with

471
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. How does the Stenant Police Department chief end

472
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: up in hot water? Well it's got something to do

473
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: with seven women, one wife, an ex wife, multiple fiances

474
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: and we don't know how many girlfriends. But what salanted

475
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: him looking at criminal charges is faking a court document.

476
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: A judge has come out and said this document is

477
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: not real. Now this is what former Chief Collier has

478
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: to say. Take a list of our cut six. I

479
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: feel like the biggest pieces. So sorry, mean to hide anything,

480
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: lie to you? Sorry, I'm so sorry. Please, you're at

481
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: you to forgiving him. Sorry, it will be in the alley.

482
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. How can that be true? Daughter Bethany Marshall,

483
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: He didn't mean to lie. Don't you have to open

484
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: your mouth and say words intentionally. That's not an involuntary

485
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: reaction like digesting your food or breathing or you're heartbeating.

486
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: You can't stop that, but you speaking words particularly lies

487
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: which require thought, cunning, and deceit. That's a voluntary action.

488
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: How can he say I didn't mean to hide anything.

489
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: That's all he does is hide things. I see. He's

490
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: manipulating again. You know, when somebody's really sorry, um, instead

491
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: of just saying the words I'm sorry, they change their behavior.

492
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: They step up, they are present, they communicate. They maybe

493
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: go wash the woman's car, take her to dinner, do

494
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: something to show some intent. For three dollars, okay, I

495
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: would love to know what this guy Collier's motivation was

496
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: to have seven, probably plus girlfriends. Was it sexual motivation?

497
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: Was he getting money from each woman? Was getting gratified

498
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: in some other ways? Anything about money? I haven't heard anything.

499
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: You know, when you look at the literature and sociopathy,

500
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: it's well known in my field that one of the

501
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: indicators of a sociopath is they have inner deadness. They're

502
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: very empty, They're prone to boredom, and because of that,

503
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: their excitement chunky. They love to have very life on

504
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: the edge, you know, barely escaping danger, barely getting caught.

505
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: That this somehow makes them feel alive. So it could

506
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: be the juggling from one woman to the other kind

507
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: of served a purpose of making him feel more alive

508
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: and more human. It'd be hard for your listeners to

509
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: relate to this. The people who are normal and have

510
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: pleasure just at watching their child baseball game or cooking

511
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: a nice meal. But for somebody who's this disturbed, they

512
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: need a lot of activity. They always need to be

513
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: on the move, and they always need to be sort

514
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: of barely getting caught in order to feel that they're

515
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: even human. I've got another fact for you, Debbie mctgomery Johnson.

516
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to respond to this. Stimmis

517
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: and Shaffer, those are two of the girlfriends. Well, they

518
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: may be the two fiances. Also discovered Collier about each

519
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: of them the same gift, a coffee maker. He wanted

520
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: to buy me a coffee maker as a wedding gift

521
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 1: at Target with my children, Schaeffer wrote. He just brought

522
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: up getting a coffee maker from my house on Sunday.

523
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: Since I don't drink coffee and he does. He gives

524
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: all the women the same gift. Debbie, you were ripped

525
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: off to the team of a million dollars. Did you

526
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: ever suspect in the middle of all that that it

527
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: was all a big lie. No, well maybe towards the end,

528
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: but no, I never did. I wondered there were pink flags,

529
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: as I call him, you know, not red flags, not

530
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: yellow flags. Where my gut was saying, deb this isn't right.

531
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: But at some point you're so far in for me

532
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: financially in that to walk away, I knew I would

533
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: lose the money. The hope of this is the last time,

534
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this will get him home. That hope

535
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: of him getting out of there that kept me going.

536
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: But as far as the coffee maker, what happened with

537
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: the scammers is they don't call you by your name.

538
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: They'll call you honey, my love, my wife, something that

539
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: doesn't you know. They can be talking to one hundred

540
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 1: women at the same time and I'll call them my honey,

541
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: my love, my wife, and they don't need to remember

542
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: your name. So by him giving them a coffee maker

543
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: type to get the same gift, and they're going to

544
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: be grateful for that, and it's not for them. I mean,

545
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get a coffee maker. I don't drink coffee,

546
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: but if he were coming to my house and he

547
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: wanted coffee, it makes sense. But yeah, he's just covering

548
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: his bases. You know, um, my poor husband. He loves coffee.

549
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: I drink tea, So not only do we I only

550
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: have instant coffee, okay, but I actually cheat and put

551
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: in the Dollar Tree coffee in that, and he thinks

552
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: he's getting some expensive instant coffee. I mean, you know,

553
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: speaking of coffee makers. Hey, guys, this is what it

554
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: all boils down to take a listen to our cut eight.

555
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: This is Kelly Green k A m R. Listen. Thursday afternoon,

556
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: Texas rangers arrested Collier and booked him into the Hutchinson

557
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 1: County Jail. He's charged with tampering with a government record

558
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: with the intent to defraud or harm, which is a

559
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: state jail felony. His bond was set at ten thousand dollars. Tuesday,

560
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: Amiral lowoman Cecily Steinmetz posted this to Facebook, saying she

561
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: was engaged to Collier before she learned he was married.

562
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: Stun Metz's original post has gone viral, shared tens of

563
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: thousands of times, even internationally. I spoke with Steinmetz, who

564
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: alleges Collier sent her a fake annulment document. Stun Metz

565
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: says this photo of an ennuyment document is from Collier

566
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: and then he was like, well, you know, I'll get

567
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: you the aendulment. He's like, just hold on and I

568
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: was like, okay, you know loisy event and he said

569
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: that to me, and I told him, I said, well,

570
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take this at its face, Volue,

571
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to check it out with patter County. I

572
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: did not think it was right in his position to

573
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: be presenting people with a false document like that. That's

574
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: why it's a crime because all sorts of business personal

575
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: transactions can take place based on court certified documents. I mean,

576
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: Darryl in court, if the defense attorney would present me

577
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: with a document, I would do this, feel it, you

578
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: know why, because it has to be certified. I have

579
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: to feel the imprint, you know it would a notary

580
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: squeezes the document with that seal, you can feel it,

581
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: and oh yes, it may be a technicality, but I

582
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: would object to the document if I didn't feel, if

583
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: I couldn't feel that seal on it, and the defense

584
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: attorney would have to go back and get the real deal.

585
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: Our whole system is based on authentication of documents that

586
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: we can rely on. And he faked it. According to

587
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: this woman, Nancy, it's hard to explain any of this,

588
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: to be very honest with you, it's something that's beyond

589
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: believable and I don't know how to explain it other

590
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: than it just is and sometimes people just do what

591
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: they shouldn't do, and this is what happens. Guys, take

592
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: a listen. Although that was totally unresponsive to the question,

593
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: I will fortunate forward. Take a listen to our cut

594
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: nine about the fake annulment document. You can see on

595
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: this document. It claims it was filed in the one

596
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: hundred eighth District Court in Potter County. Judge Doug Woodburn

597
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: presides over that court. We reached out and shared with

598
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: him the photo of the annulment document Steinmetz claimed Collier

599
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: sent her. Judge Woodburn replied saying, quote, no match exists

600
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: either under that name or cause number. Our cause numbers

601
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: are completely different, consisting of a zero followed by six

602
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: numbers starting in seven or eight. My court is followed

603
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: by the letter E. It's a fake end quote. You

604
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: were just hearing Keilly Green at km R. The one

605
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: hundred and eight District Court says that this document looks

606
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: like it's a fake. That's what we're learning right now.

607
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: That was Judge Woodburn presiding, not only is this share,

608
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: is this police officer or this chief of police potentially

609
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: heading to jail. Just think of the broken hearts he's

610
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: leaving behind. We've been talking about the women, but what

611
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: about his children. We wait as justice unfalse Nancy Grace

612
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: crime story signing off, goodbye friend,