1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Through our social channels. We asked our listeners to name 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: some of their favorite episodes, and Bobby Jean Johnson's story 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: rose to the top. Here is her heartbreaking story recorded 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: in Atlanta at the INNOCENTCE Network conference in twenty nineteen, 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: shortly before her untimely passing away later that year. Bobby 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth and 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: later molested while she was in foster care. She ran 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: away from that horrible situation and tried to survive as 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans. In 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson was 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He had 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: been shot once in the stomach with a thirty two 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: caliber bullet and stabbed over one hundred times. The store 14 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars. 15 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing in 16 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: what she did not know at the time was a 17 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: stolen car with two men when they were pulled over 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: by the police for a traffic violation. One of the 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: men stashed a knife and a thirty two caliber and 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jean Johnson 21 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: was brought in from violent interrogation that would change the 22 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. This is 23 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today, I have 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: a guest who is one of the most extraordinary people 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: with one of the most insane stories that I've ever heard. 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. So, Bobby 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: Jean Johnson, Welcome to wrongful conviction. As I always say, 28 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and 29 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: everyone will find out why. 30 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: And with her is Kat Forrester. 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: Who is the communications director for the Unstan's Project of 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: New Orleans, also known as IPNO. 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: And Kat, welcome to wrongful conviction. 34 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 3: Thanks so much to be here. 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: So Bobby Jean was freed from prison twenty eighteen after 36 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: serving forty one years in prison for a crime she 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: didn't commit. And this case has so many of the 38 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: hallmarks of the causes of wrongful convictions that you know, 39 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: it's almost a clean. 40 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: Sweep, so to speak. 41 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: I mean, there was misconduct, there was a false confession 42 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: that you were tortured into making incompetent defense. It's not 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: even that's not even strong enough of a word. And 44 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: we're going to get into that all of that, But 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, And 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: this is an extremely violent crime. This was a white 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: man who was an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: was shot and stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's 49 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: a vicious, vicious crime. And just to paint a picture 50 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: for people who are listening, how. 51 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 4: Tall are you, I'm five feet tall. 52 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: You're five feet tall, and you're not a big one. 53 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 4: I wasn't that big at the time. I was like 54 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 4: ninety eight pounds, like, and I will size zero pains. 55 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 4: I could go my clothes out the children's section. 56 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: So the whole thing makes no sense just on a 57 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: purely physical level. And mister Sampson, I mean, nobody deserves 58 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: to die like he did. But he was a sort 59 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: of a dicey character anyway. 60 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: Right. 61 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: He was known for bringing sex workers to his home, 62 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why the logical suspect 63 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: would have been this woman who was a sex worker 64 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: who was the last person to see him alive. 65 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, she was the last person he was seen with 66 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: by anyone. 67 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: Right, So usually you know, we all watch those crime 68 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: shows on TV, you know, you go down that path 69 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: at least take a look, you know, But that's not 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: what happened. 71 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 4: What year was this byby nineteen seventy seven? 72 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: You were an eighteen year old girl, yeah at the time, 73 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: So what was going on? You were living in New 74 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: Orleans at the time. 75 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I was like on drugs and stuff, right. 76 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 4: So one night we was riding in a call. It 77 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 4: was me and two other dudes were writing in a 78 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 4: call and it caps the police staptics for a traffic violation. 79 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: Were you were you driving? No? 80 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 4: I wasn't driving right. And at the time when the 81 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 4: police stopped us, one of the dudes that was in 82 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 4: the call with me threw the knife in the gun 83 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: in my person. So because I know, I didn't have 84 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 4: no knife and gun in my purse. So when the 85 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 4: police pulled all my stuff out my person, he said, oh, 86 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 4: we got a knife in the gun. I said, that 87 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 4: is not for me. But they took us to Homicide 88 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 4: Armed Division and they put us in different rooms and 89 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 4: kept questioning us in questions, and I kept telling them 90 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 4: I don't know nothing about it. I don't even know 91 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 4: where his place is at. And I heard his man 92 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 4: and so one of the dudes, the dude that put 93 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 4: the gun in the knife, didn't make a statement and said, 94 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 4: when y'all stopped us, I put that knife in that 95 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: gun and Bible jeans, that's not us. I did that, 96 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 4: And he made a statement. They just ignored the statement. 97 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: I mean, Kat, do you think they knew at the 98 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: time that it has the wrong person, but they just 99 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: wanted to clean up the case and that was what 100 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: was really going on. 101 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. 102 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 5: I mean, I think they had a pretty viable suspect 103 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 5: and they didn't follow any of the leads and that 104 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 5: other suspect case. And I think that so often, particularly 105 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 5: you know, back in the seventies, eighties, nineties in New Orleans, 106 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 5: particularly with black folks. I think that they, you know, 107 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 5: the cops got tunnel vision, and you know, when they 108 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 5: found somebody and it seemed easy enough to pin it 109 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 5: on that person, you know, even if all the evidence 110 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 5: in the world pointed to someone else. So often they 111 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 5: just got tunnel vision and focused on one person and 112 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 5: you know, force their theory of the case to fit 113 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 5: to that person. 114 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: So they knew, they knew that this guy had come 115 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: forward who admitted that he had a classy guy. By 116 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: the way the cops coming, he's put in his knife 117 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: and he's gone to your purse. I mean, that's a 118 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: hell of a thing. And when you were arrested, and 119 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: if you're okay even talking about it, I mean, what 120 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: I've read about the interrogation that you went through, this 121 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: is like something out of a you know, a bad movie, 122 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: or out of torture that you read about in a 123 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: foreign country or Abu grabe, you know, or something like that. 124 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: But I mean, you went to the police station and 125 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: what happened, And. 126 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 4: Then they put us in separate rooms. And they kept 127 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 4: throwing pictures in front of me, and they said this 128 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 4: is him and this is I said, well, I've never 129 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 4: seen that man before. Guy, Yeah, the dead man, Arthur Samson. 130 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 4: And then one hit me in my face. He said, no, 131 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 4: listack to the other room. So when they took me 132 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 4: to the other room, they still was asking me. So 133 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 4: when I kept saying I don't know. I can't tell 134 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: you nothing. I don't know, he said, oh, you're gonna know, 135 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 4: and he called me a black bee and he put 136 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: my hand, got me to the back behind his like 137 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 4: wooden chair and put a plastic bag over my head. 138 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 4: The chair fell backwards and they started kicking me in 139 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 4: my ribs and all over and hit me. And he 140 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 4: kept saying, black b Yeah, you're gonna tell us because 141 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 4: we know you know, we know you know, he said, 142 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 4: because let me tell you. He said, ain't number of 143 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 4: police officers in this in the station right here, and 144 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: we could kill you and your family would never know 145 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 4: nothing about you. So I'm scared at that, and so 146 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 4: he said, come on, we're going back in there by 147 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 4: the time, he said, and you're gonna put and if 148 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 4: you'd known't, you'll get some more. And I was scared 149 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 4: of that. I was crying and everything. I had five 150 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 4: police officers standing up behind me and one sitting down 151 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 4: who had the tapecader and he said, now you ready, 152 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 4: I said, I don't know now he said. He turned 153 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 4: the tape off and he said, you're going to repeat 154 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 4: what I say. He turned the yeah and told me that. 155 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 4: So I was so scared. I did everything they was 156 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 4: telling me to put on tape. I put on tape, 157 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 4: but it was a lie. I did it because I 158 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 4: was scared well. 159 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you had a very good reason to be scared. 160 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 4: I mean, I was hurting everywhere, and even after the 161 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 4: JL fell backward, they was kicking me in my ribs 162 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 4: and everything. It was horrible. 163 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 5: And Jason, I just wanted to say that, like, the 164 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 5: world had not been kind to Bobby Jean before this 165 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 5: all happened. You know, she had had a really tough 166 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 5: up upbringing, and it makes so much sense that she 167 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 5: would do anything to kind of survive, right this, this 168 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 5: brutal police interrogation, and thank you about me. 169 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just feel like. 170 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 5: The world had not been kind to her, had not 171 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 5: offered her a lot of hope. 172 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: And I, you know, I. 173 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 4: Think because I was I was given away when my 174 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 4: mama had me, and I had to go on like that. 175 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 4: It was like I was scaring all world with my huldren. 176 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 6: So I just got out there and I just wanted 177 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 6: somebody to love me, and I just. 178 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 4: Wanted to be accepting and stuff. So whatever it took 179 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 4: for me to do that, I did it. 180 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: And she was she was a young a young girl, 181 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: as you keep kind of pointing out, you know, who was. 182 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 5: Doing the best she could with what she had. And 183 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 5: then and then this thing happened to her, right. 184 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, then this thing happened. 185 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: This is you know, there's been too many of these 186 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: cases where we've learned that the officers have threatened to 187 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: kill the person unless they confess. Johnny Encapier is one 188 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: Daniel Villegas in Texas. There's too many of these. And 189 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, Johnny says to me, he was on the 190 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: podcast and he said, people asked me why would I confess? 191 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: And he was eighteen, like you were, and he says, 192 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: why wouldn't I confess? 193 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 2: He goes, I wanted to live, you know. 194 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 4: What I want? I just want I want to live. 195 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: I was a young girl eighteen. You're really more of 196 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: a child than a woman. I mean at that point, 197 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we know that the adolescent brain 198 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: doesn't fully develop. 199 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: Until you're twenty five. 200 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: And here you are not just a young girl, but 201 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: a little girl, right, ninety eight pounds, like you said, 202 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: in a room full of big, tough guys who you 203 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: would want to think are going to protect you, right, 204 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: And in fact they're threatening in a very real way. 205 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: Right. 206 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: It's not like it doesn't sound like an empty threat 207 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: when they're putting a plastic bag over here, and being 208 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: you and kicking you. I mean, so, I don't think 209 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: there's any question, And I think it's so important that 210 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: you're here, and I really appreciate you. 211 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: I know it's difficult for you. I can see how 212 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: difficult it. 213 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: Is, but it's so important for the public to understand 214 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: that these false confessions happened for a variety of reasons. 215 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 1: Not everybody's tortured, but a lot of people are psychologically coerced, 216 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: or they're tricked, or. 217 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: They're you know, confused. 218 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, in your situation, I don't think anyone would 219 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: probably behave any differently than you did. But then what 220 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: a difficult thing to live with too, because knowing as 221 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: you're going to prison for the rest of your life 222 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: that you are in a certain way responsible because you know, 223 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: you admitted something that you didn't do. 224 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: But her confession didn't match the facts of the case anyway. 225 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 3: No, she I mean she got a lot of it wrong. 226 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: I mean, she didn't get much of it right actually, 227 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: And that's also a typical thing in these false confession cases. 228 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: After torturing her for hours, the police were able to 229 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: extract the taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies, According 230 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: to that false confession, Bobby Jean and a woman named 231 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: Kimberly Leagun had met Samson in the French Quarter. Legan 232 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: solicited him for sex. Then when he brought them back 233 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: to his store, and again back to the false narrative 234 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: that she created just to make the torture. 235 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: Stop, she said, Bobby herself shot. 236 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: Him once in the chest and once in the head, 237 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: and then her friend Legan stabbed him over one hundred times. 238 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: Then they robbed his store and sped off in a 239 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: stolen Pontiac Grand Prix. Now for the actual facts, Arthur 240 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: Samson was shot only once in the stomach, Bobby Jean 241 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: described Samson as being twenty years younger and a half 242 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: foot taller than he was. And lastly, the Pontiac Grand 243 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: Prix would not have made a good getaway car, as 244 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: it was not stolen until hours after the murder. The 245 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: man who had stashed the thirty two caliber revolver a 246 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: Knight for her purse, had made a statement admitting to 247 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: just that, but that fact was inconvenient to the prosecution's 248 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: narrative and was therefore hidden from the defense. All of 249 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: this could have been brought up during trial if Bobby 250 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: Jean had adequate counsel. However, with no family and no 251 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: backup whatsoever, Bobby Jean didn't have a chance in help. 252 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: Now you're taking to jail. Yeah, how long did you 253 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: have to wait for your trial? 254 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 4: Eighteen months? 255 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 2: Eighteen months in jail? 256 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: And I know how bad that must have been, because jail's, 257 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: I mean anywhere are terrible, but in New Orleans it's infamous. 258 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 4: It is. 259 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, your trial was. It was like a combination of 260 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: a bad dream and a bad joke. It was because 261 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: the people who are supposed to be defending you did 262 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: nothing of the sort. 263 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: Yeap, And can you talk about that? 264 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? 265 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 4: I can't doing my trial. My lawyer wouldn't let me 266 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 4: get on a standing and talking my own defense. He 267 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 4: fell asleep during the trial. 268 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: Your lawyer was asleep. 269 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, he fell asleep during the I had to wake 270 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 4: him up. And he didn't do no opening statements. 271 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: No opening statement and statements, no clothing statement. 272 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: And one of the jurors stood up in state till 273 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 4: the jews. I can I give miss Johnson a fair 274 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 4: truck because I had a relationship with this man, the 275 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 4: judge said, be seated with the victim. Yeah, and he 276 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 4: and now I know because when I was in prison, 277 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: I took fair leave and I graduated from it. But 278 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 4: my lawyer should have called a mistrial when that juror 279 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 4: stood up and he didn't say not a word, and. 280 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: The judge said, just let's let's please proceed. 281 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've been doing this work for over 282 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: twenty five years, and I've heard a lot of stories. 283 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 2: I've never heard that before. 284 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I've heard stories of jurors that had but 285 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: I never heard a juror actually stand up in a mid. 286 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 4: She she raised her hand and she said, I can 287 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 4: I get this lady a fair trial because I had 288 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 4: a relationship with mister Samson. 289 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: And so your lawyer was asleep, you're waking him up. 290 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: He made no opening statement, he made no closing statement, 291 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: and he didn't object. 292 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 4: To that lady didn't call a mistrial. 293 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 2: Didn't call him miss trial. 294 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 5: He made one objection throughout the trial, to the admission 295 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 5: of a photograph. He has a total of eight cross 296 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 5: examination questions, the majority of which dealt with the ballistics 297 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 5: of the gun. No opening and no closing, and he 298 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 5: presented no case theory. He essentially did nothing except Jacob 299 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 5: Evan sid Do. 300 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he didn't defend you so much as 301 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: process you. 302 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 4: Right, Even when I was in jail when they accurring 303 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: him to me, he never came seeing me. The only 304 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 4: time I seen him was a court and sometimes when 305 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 4: they would have court dates for me, but he wouldn't 306 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 4: be there, so they would postpone it to another day. 307 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: Oh so that's why I took eighteen months to get 308 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: to trial. Yeah, because he wouldn't show up. 309 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 4: He wouldn't show up. 310 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: Did at any point did you request a different lawyer? 311 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: Did you even know that you? I didn't know. 312 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 4: I was young and I didn't know, and you probably. 313 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: I mean I would think in that situation, you know 314 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: nothing about the law, right And I would. 315 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: Think again, in that situation, that you would be worried 316 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: if you did request, Well, then you're going to upset 317 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: the only guy who's on your side right now. Did 318 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: you have any family in the courtroom with you or 319 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: anything like that. 320 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: No, nobody? Did you all alone? 321 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 4: Yeah? 322 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. 323 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: It took them less than an hour to come back 324 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: with a guilty verdict. 325 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 326 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 4: So when I got to prison, at first, I was 327 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 4: because I was angry. I was angry and I was hurt. 328 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 4: That's when I was starting. I started fighting, and all 329 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 4: this it didn't matter no more because I had It 330 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 4: was like, well, Baptisia, you got a life sentence. Now 331 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 4: it's nothing you could do. You're going to die in 332 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 4: this prison. But then I started praying and praying and praying, 333 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 4: and one of the last fight I had, I remember 334 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 4: I was in that cell. I just fell to my 335 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 4: knees and I said, God, just take my life. I'm 336 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 4: tired of living like this. Take my life and do 337 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 4: what you want to do with it. And from that 338 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 4: day to this one, I ain't been the same. I 339 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 4: grew up, I got more mature, and I did everything 340 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 4: I could do. They was offering the g so I know, 341 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 4: I had been out of school a few months and stuff, 342 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 4: and I got in this trouble because I know I 343 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 4: was a small girl. I had just I hadn't graduated. 344 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 4: I dropped out at the eleventh grade. And so I 345 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 4: took the GD and I passed the GED. The it 346 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 4: was giving grants out for introduction in the business Payroll 347 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: Accountant and PA league. First I took the pay legal 348 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 4: one and I passed with a full PARANORL. Yeah, wow. 349 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 4: And I studied hard, or I studied hard because I 350 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 4: wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could 351 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 4: to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was 352 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 4: nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights 353 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 4: in jail because I was small, and they thought I 354 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 4: was scared of him, but I wasn't. And I had 355 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 4: fights with quite a few people. But I grew and 356 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 4: I matured. I did everything I know to do right. 357 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 4: I was a law curt and all this in the prison. 358 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 4: When I got into the old the law library, I 359 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 4: started writing to everybody to try to help me. One 360 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 4: day my sister said, just send me all your papers. 361 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 4: I'm go an bring into an innocent project. And when 362 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 4: I sent them all to it, they got them and 363 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 4: they started working on my case immediately. Every two weeks 364 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 4: they would be up there to see me and they 365 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 4: tell me how the case was gone or whatever. And 366 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 4: then the day, oh, I went to court on the seventh. 367 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 4: I didn't even know I had a court On the 368 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 4: day of they said, they said, VI Johnson getting ready 369 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 4: to got a court trip. I said, court trip. Don't 370 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 4: y'all have never taken me back to court? So I 371 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 4: didn't know what was going on, so I said okay, 372 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 4: And when I got dressed, they brought me in the 373 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 4: court house and all of them was in the courtroom 374 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 4: for me. All lawyers, yes, but all my lawyers walked 375 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 4: up with me to the podium when I had to 376 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 4: do the plea and everything. 377 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: For many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative 378 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: and the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on 379 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: Bobby Jane's case, investigating leads, studying theden and identifying the 380 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: inconsistencies in her violently coursed false confession to eventually force 381 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office to offer. 382 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: A plea deal. 383 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: The deal was this, her first degree murder conviction and 384 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: life sentence would be vacated, but Bobby jan had to 385 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: plead guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to 386 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: be re sentenced to time served. Her attorneys also had 387 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: to drop any claims that the DA's office did not 388 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome that 389 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: they or anyone who cared about Bobby Jean had hoped for, 390 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: but it was the only one that. 391 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 2: Would set her free. 392 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this 393 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: case is the fact that even after all these years, 394 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: and even after it's been proven that you had nothing 395 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake, 396 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want 397 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So 398 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: the DA's office in New Orleans forced you to take 399 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: a plea just to sort. 400 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 4: Of so it would be free as the work was 401 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 4: the only way. You say, you take this feek or 402 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 4: you stay in prison. 403 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: Right, I think anybody would do what you did. 404 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: And Cat, I want you to jump in here anytime, 405 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: because I know you're intimately familiar with this case, and 406 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: I know how proud you are of the work that 407 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: as I am as a supporter of and It's Project 408 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: New Orleans. I'm so proud of the work that they did, 409 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: and I'm so happy. I mean, I saw those pictures 410 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: when and I posted on my Instagram, which is at 411 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: It's Jason Flamm as people know, but I posted the 412 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: pictures of Bobby Jean walking out of prison that day, 413 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: and I just my heart was breaking or floating. 414 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: I was breaking. 415 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air, 416 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine 417 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: some light on this cat, because this case is bizarre 418 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: even by our standards. 419 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. 420 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 5: So it was a case that we worked on for 421 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 5: several years. One of the attorneys in our office, Schrell Arnold, 422 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 5: worked on it for a long time and it ended 423 00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 5: up being the Promise of Justice initiative, incredible organized in 424 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 5: New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby Jean and walking 425 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 5: her out of prison. But we were there because she was, 426 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 5: you know, the first female client who we'd really worked 427 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 5: on her case for for for a long time and 428 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 5: had a really good lead. 429 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 3: And part of that is. 430 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 5: Because, as you know, Jason, I'm sure you know, women 431 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 5: aren't often sentenced to life in prison or long prison sentences, 432 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 5: which is what HYPNO does is free innocent life sentence prisoners, 433 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 5: and women so often are caught up in things that 434 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 5: men do right there, or they harm or. 435 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 3: Kill their domestic abusers. 436 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 5: And so this was you know, really exciting for us, 437 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 5: I think because it was the first time that we'd 438 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 5: worked with a woman for a number of years, and 439 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 5: of course Bobby Jane is just incredible, and you know, 440 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 5: I think having her come home, I actually came and 441 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 5: hung out with her in Atlanta when she got home, 442 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 5: and we went to the aquarium and started learning how 443 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 5: to use a cell phone's as I think, we showed 444 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 5: you some pictures and it was a. 445 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: Really incredible moment. 446 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 5: I can't imagine being incarcerated for forty one years. 447 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: No, I mean, when you. 448 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Put that in context, that's I mean, you were only 449 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: eighteen at the time, so that's twice as long as 450 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: you had been alive, plus another five years. I mean, 451 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: it's it's impossible I think for anybody to comprehend who 452 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: hasn't been through it. 453 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: Jesus, who was president when you went to prison? 454 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 4: I don't remember. I don't know. 455 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 2: We have to look Jimmy Carter was president. 456 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 4: Okay, that's got Yeah. I mean it's a lot time. 457 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: Most of the people who are listening to the show 458 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: weren't born yet, and everything was different, and then you 459 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: come out into a world where everybody's walking around typing 460 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: on their phones, going everywhere, like there's just everything is different. 461 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 4: When I am my first phone in my hand, I 462 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, kid, she had assumed me everything. 463 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 4: I had to turn it on and everything. 464 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 3: First thing she wanted was an Instagram account. 465 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what is your Instagram account? 466 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 4: I don't know. 467 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 3: She doesn't know, Bobby Jean, twenty eighteen. 468 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: So you walk out, I mean, what a difference. 469 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: You go in as a scared, brutalized young nineteen twenty 470 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: year old woman by the eighteen when you went to jail, 471 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: and you come out as an accomplished, mature, fifty nine 472 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: year old woman. You walk out into a world that 473 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: looks almost nothing like it did when you went in. 474 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 4: It was New Orleans. Don't look nothing like it did 475 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 4: when I went in. 476 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 2: I mean I almost. 477 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 4: Forgot the names of the streets that I definitely looked at. 478 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 4: To me, yeah, I had five five of my Lowys 479 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,479 Speaker 4: with me, and it was just, I don't know. It 480 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 4: was a feeling I never had before. 481 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 6: I used to pray every night, God, you my only witness, 482 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 6: and you know I didn't kill nobody, Just open these 483 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 6: doors and help me. 484 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 3: Every night I pray that in my robe. 485 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 4: It was so hard for me. 486 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: Here we are at the Innocence Network conference. 487 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: By the way, how about this conference, Bobby, It's amazing. 488 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 489 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: So we're here at the Ennistance Never conference with about 490 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: two hundred designeries and six hundred. 491 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 2: People, activists, social. 492 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: Workers, civilians who want to get involved. 493 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 2: Two of them are in the room with us right now. 494 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: We have lawyers here, we have experts on everything from 495 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, false confessions to uh, you name it, and uh, 496 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: it's an awesome, awesome thing. I mean, people are connected 497 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: and strategizing and coming up with best practices and helping 498 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: each other. And yeah, I mean we have we have 499 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: thirty five new xuneries here that were on stage last 500 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: night singing and dancing and it was some crazy scene. Man, 501 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: it's amazing, including you. Yeah, I was, Yeah, I saw 502 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: you up there. 503 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 5: How to feel to be up there, Bobby Jane, It 504 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 5: was a feel good they feel good. 505 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: For you to connect with the other exogneries. What is 506 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: that experience? 507 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 4: It's just like because I just thought, I said, I 508 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 4: know that many people there's both convictions and it made 509 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 4: me feel good to know that I was I was. 510 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 4: I wasn't the only one. 511 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 2: Oh no, hell no. 512 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 4: But I didn't know at the time, but it really 513 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 4: felt good. And to know how much loved show we 514 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 4: showed each other. 515 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: M hmm. Yeah, we ain't done yet. We're going to 516 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 2: be loving on you. 517 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: For the well, for the rest of the time, but 518 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: especially the lass next twenty four hours that we're all 519 00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: going to be here together. It's going to be a 520 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: amazing and I know that people are are so glad 521 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: that you're here. 522 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 4: It's amazing. 523 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm so honored 524 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: to be here and be a part of this movement. 525 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: I will tell anybody who's listening that, you know, I 526 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: call it selfish altruism because I consider it a privilege 527 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: and an honor to get to be around people like 528 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: yourself and to be able to make some small difference 529 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: is you know, it's the most rewarding thing in my life. 530 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, obviously you know I'm a father 531 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: and that's a tremendously important thing to me. But beyond that, 532 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: it's the most important work that I can imagine being 533 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: involved with. And you're living proof of it. And here 534 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: we are celebrating you and celebrating freedom and working on 535 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: getting the next people out and and so now you're 536 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: living in Georgia, yes. 537 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: And what gives you joy? 538 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 4: Now? 539 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: Do you have any joy in your life now? 540 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 4: I have enjoy my life now because it's like living 541 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 4: where I live. I can come and go with that. Please. 542 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 4: Anybody could come get me and like take me wherever 543 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 4: they want to take me, Like if they want to 544 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 4: take me out there or whatever, I could do it. 545 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 4: And they have a lot of activities because I'm because 546 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 4: I'm because of my age, they have a lot of 547 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 4: activities for old and I always attended. They have church service. 548 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 4: I always attended and they treat me good. 549 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 3: And what is it that you do once a month, 550 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 3: Bobby Jean, Oh. 551 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 4: I'll go to Georgia's Innocent Project. I'm a member of 552 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 4: the George's Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. 553 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 4: I'm always there. Yeah. 554 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 5: They're really lovingly taken her into the exonery meetings that 555 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 5: happen once a month there so she gets to hang 556 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 5: out with other wrongfully incarcerator to people who live in Georgia. 557 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I see you got the shirt on you go? 558 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 4: Where the Georgia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, I 559 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 4: don't have one for all if. 560 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 3: No wear the Judge one, I need to get your 561 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: adjuster shirt. 562 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 4: I know I don't have a justice shirt. I need one. 563 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: I think we can arrange that. Okay, you got that one, 564 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: I got it? Okay, perfect teamwork. Makes the dream work. 565 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: So this is the part of the show that is 566 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: my favorite part because this is the part of the 567 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: show where I get to first of all, I thank. 568 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 4: You, we thank you for having. 569 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: Me, Bobby Jean Johnson, and Kat Forrester. Thank you for 570 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: coming and sharing, especially you, Bobby, obviously Bobby Jeen for 571 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: I know how difficult it is to talk about these things, 572 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: and it's so important that you're here. So you know, 573 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 1: thank you on behalf of me and all my listeners 574 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: and everybody in the Innocence Network. And then this is 575 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: the part where I get to stop talking, and I 576 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: turned it over to YouTube fabulous ladies for final closing thoughts, 577 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: and I think we should we should finish with you, Bobby, 578 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: because I want to hear anything you have to say, 579 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: any anything at all about any subject. But first, Kat, 580 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: what what are your closing thoughts. 581 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: I'm just so glad that we have to get her home. 582 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 5: And I was thinking about it because we were at 583 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 5: the aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and 584 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 5: we went to the aquarium right after she got out, 585 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 5: and to see the joy on her face, you know, 586 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 5: at like, you know, seeing very cool fish was just unparalleled, 587 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 5: and I'm just so glad to have been able to 588 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 5: experience that with her and to see, you know, how 589 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 5: many new things she gets to explore in this life 590 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 5: now that she's a free, a free woman. 591 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was amazing to me. Because the aquirm I 592 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 4: would always see to the show it on TV. I 593 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 4: used to say, I want to go there. I want 594 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 4: to go there. So when Kad had me, she said, 595 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 4: you want to go to the a Querrum. And when 596 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 4: she did it, it was like a joy, A lot 597 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 4: of joy just jumped on my face. I said, yeah, 598 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 4: I want to go. I want to go, Kid, I 599 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 4: want to go see him. And when I came, it 600 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 4: was so beautiful. I just it was so amazing out here. Well, 601 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 4: Kat led me all the way through and she was there. 602 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,239 Speaker 4: If Noah has been there for me, I could call 603 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 4: them at any given time or whenever, and if it's 604 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 4: a problem I have, they will do their best to 605 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 4: fix it or if I like I sometimes I used 606 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 4: to get depressed and stuff and I used to call 607 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 4: them and talk. And Angelique has been marvelous. Oh my god, 608 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 4: she has been great. 609 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,959 Speaker 3: Client services specialists. 610 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 4: Yes, she has been great, no matter what. If she 611 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 4: can't call me back. At the time, she text me 612 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 4: back and say, I'll call you in a few minutes. 613 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 4: Just hold on. And but then it has been great 614 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 4: and it's and I'm happy to be home. 615 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 6: I'm happy. I'm happy, more happy now than I've ever 616 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 6: been in my life. I didn't I never knew so 617 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 6: much love and stuff, but no I do. And it's 618 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 6: it's great. It's just that they took a lot of 619 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 6: away from me. They took everything away from me for 620 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 6: nothing but something I didn't even do. I lost everything. 621 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 6: All my youth was gone. And I just want to 622 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 6: thank you Jason for having me. 623 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: Wow, we're gonna be here for you too. You have 624 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: a whole bit new family now. You got eight hundred 625 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: family members here now, and you've got a lot more 626 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: that are listening to the show. And so you're you're 627 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: a brave and strong and amazing woman, and we're gonna 628 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: support you in. 629 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: Every way we can. 630 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: So so again, thank you for being here, Thanks again 631 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: for listening. 632 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do. 633 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 2: And uh and and we'll see you next week. I'm 634 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: wrong for conviction. 635 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: I have some devastating news to share. Bobby Jean Johnson, 636 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:04,719 Speaker 1: who I recorded this haunting episode with, passed away. It 637 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but I can say that 638 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: she died of the abuse and neglect that she suffered 639 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: at the hands of the State of Louisiana during her 640 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: forty one years of wrongful incarceration. Bobby was an angel 641 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: on earth. She was just a beautiful, damaged soul who 642 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: wanted nothing but to be loved and to help others. 643 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: And she was out less than eighteen months when she died. 644 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: And I bring that up because it's a sort of 645 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: a hidden and horrible truth. I don't know the statistics nationally, 646 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: but in the state of Louisiana, approximately twenty percent of 647 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: xaneries die within eighteen months of their release from prison. 648 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to process this one. We 649 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: were planning Bobby's birthday party when we got the news. 650 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: She had called me and said that she called me 651 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: mister Jay. She called me, she called me mister Jay. 652 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: She goes, you know, my birthday's coming up, and she 653 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: said I've met in her little voice because you know, 654 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: she's only about ninety something pounds, and she said, you know, 655 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: I've never had a happy birthday, and you know, that 656 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: really just messed my head up, as you can imagine. 657 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: So we began planning myself. Stacy Ryan, who mentored her 658 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: hero of the band, a wonderful rock and roll band 659 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: that I work with from Atlanta. We all were putting 660 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: our resources together and planning a big, beautiful birthday celebration 661 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: for her in Atlanta. And you know, just a week 662 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: before it was supposed to happen, we got the news 663 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: that she was gone. So, Bobby Jean, You're gone but 664 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: never forgotten, rest in power. Thank you for listening to 665 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, 666 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn, and Awardis with research by Lyla Robinson. The 667 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 668 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on 669 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, 670 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at 671 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: Lava for Good. On all three platforms, You can also 672 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason Flam. 673 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcast 674 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: and association with Signal company number one