1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker. 3 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: You know, this week, a clip that I have posted 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: onto my Instagram of Sonny Houston of the View has 5 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: gone viral, and in the clip, Sonny very clearly lays 6 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: out the path and plan of the Republican Party and 7 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: very articulately tells people that are watching that this election 8 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: is not about a candidate. It is about the few 9 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: future of this country. And I urge everybody to watch it, 10 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: to watch you know that I think it's a little over, 11 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: you know, close to two and a half minutes, because 12 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: like I said yesterday, I get it, you know, I 13 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: get it, and I feel it. I feel the anger 14 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: and the rage that I have against this administration and 15 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: their actions in Gaza. I have rage and anger about 16 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: their inability to create a large enough narrative to disrupt 17 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: Maga supremacy. And I just need folks to realize that 18 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: these people, these white supremacists, they are not fucking around. 19 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: And for folks who think that like I'm gonna sit 20 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: this one out as my protest because Biden doesn't align 21 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: with my values, well, Donald Trump, sure as fucked doesn't 22 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: align with your values either, right, none of them do. 23 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: But the fact is is that with a person in 24 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: office that is imperfect and actually still believes in the 25 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: rule of law and the constitution, you can fight them, 26 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: You can protest them, you can push them and call 27 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: them out to be better. That does not happen in 28 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: an authoritarian, dick tatorship or fascistic rule. It does not happen. 29 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: People are disappeared, they are killed, they are silenced, their 30 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: families are threatened. And if you think like, oh my god, 31 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: well that's not happening, folks, how many fucking times have 32 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: the judges that are sitting on Donald Trump's cases now 33 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: been swatted? How many elected officials right? How many poll workers? 34 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: How many election workers have been threatened since twenty twenty. 35 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: So if you think that the escalation is not possible, 36 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: I tell you that this shit will happen in a 37 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: blink of a fucking eye, and there'll be not a 38 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: goddamn thing that we can do about it, because Donald 39 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: Trump will control the military and there will be no 40 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: General Millie, there will be no fucking guardrails as shitty 41 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: as we thought they were in the four years that 42 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: he was president. What we know is that those people, 43 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: the handful of them that wanted to write books after 44 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: the fact, really did save our democracy from going into 45 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: a nuclear, literal fucking meltdown. They will be gone, and 46 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: everybody that has money and access and influence will flee 47 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: because they will see the writing on the wall. The rest, however, 48 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: will be left here to suffer, because cruelty is the 49 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: fucking point. So I can't express enough the legitimate fears 50 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: that I I have that much like climate change and 51 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: the experience that I had and people on the East 52 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: Coast had, you know, with a mini tropical storm that 53 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: decided to roll through in the middle of the night 54 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: last night with sixty mile per hour fucking winds and 55 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: rain in fifty degree weather in January, just like we 56 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: continue to ignore the very real effects that are happening 57 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: outside of our window of climate change, and elected officials 58 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: who have the ability to do more than put together 59 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: packs that they don't actually uphold, do anything about. There 60 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: will be no fucking recourse if we fuck this election 61 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: up by not voting, or voting third party, or voting 62 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: for Donald Trump, because they all amount to the same thing. 63 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: White supremacist Christian fascist rule for generations to fucking come. 64 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: The conversation that will be coming up with our friend, 65 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel is talking about a public health crisis 66 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: around despair and anxiety and depression and loneliness that is 67 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: all stemming from the same places. The thing that a 68 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: democrat in the White House provides is possibility, and possibility 69 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: is what eventually leads us to change without possibility and 70 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: hope we die plain and simple. Coming up next my 71 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: conversation with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who, 72 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: by the way, folks, if you happen to be in 73 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: the New York area, I will be live and in 74 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: person with Jonathan February fifth in Brooklyn at green Light 75 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: Bookstore in conversation with him about his latest book, What 76 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: We've Become, that you can pre order now folks. It 77 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,679 Speaker 1: is Oh my god. I think it is the first 78 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: conversation of the new year with our friend, our in 79 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: house doctor, doctor Jonathan metsl That has you know, Jonathan, 80 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: when I think about it in hindsight, I actually have 81 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: no idea how many years we've been in conversation on 82 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: this to go seventy five, But I have absolutely continued 83 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: to be so grateful for the way that you show 84 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: up for me and the WOKF audience, particularly as we 85 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: are navigating just I mean unprecedented times, I miss precedented. 86 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: Times, I. 87 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: Miss it a lot. 88 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: Give us some precedent. 89 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: So I want to start off today, folks. Jonathan had 90 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: sent me two really interesting pieces that I think kind 91 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: of play into where a lot of people find themselves 92 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: in terms of understanding mental illness, understanding emotional well being, 93 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: and how these unprecedented times continue to affect us. And 94 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: so Jonathan, first off, you had sent I want to 95 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: start with the with the with the graphs. And there 96 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: was a report that was done to who is more 97 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: likely to be diagnosed with a mental illness And the 98 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: person that is writing this is Ryan Burge, and it 99 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: says liberals that consistently, that's consistently true across all kinds 100 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: of measures, but when it comes to religion, Liberal Protestants 101 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: and Catholics are less likely to be diagnosed an atheists 102 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: and agnostics. And so he runs through what we're talking 103 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: about when we're talking about mental illness. For this particular study, 104 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: they're talking about anxiety, depression, and loneliness in in that way. 105 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: So talk to us about this report and why you 106 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: think that it's important that we understand kind of the 107 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: context around it and how it's being measured. 108 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 2: Well, First, happy New Year, everybody, and I want to first, 109 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: you know, hopefully before we start talking about depressing stuff again. 110 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: I hope that everybody got a little bit of a 111 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: break over the over the holiday. And also just put 112 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: in a quick plug which we can do a lot now, 113 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: which is that you and I are going to be live. 114 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: We're taking our show on the road, or like on 115 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: our road. So we're going to be in Brooklyn doing 116 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: my book lunch the first week of February, so we 117 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: can talk more about that and all this stuff. But 118 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: it's an interesting time for me, right because I have 119 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: two books coming out. I've got the book about mass 120 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: shootings and the ways our country normalizes mass shootings, and 121 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: that's really a book about mental illness, right. That book 122 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: is a story of how a naked white man who 123 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: was really psychotic broke into a waffle house and killed 124 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: four young adults of color and injured for more. And 125 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: that's really a book about, you know, how do we 126 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: define sanity and safety in the context of a country 127 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: that is armed to the teeth basically. And then also 128 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: I have a new version of Dying of Whiteness coming 129 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: out February fourth that looks at my argument from twenty 130 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty twenty, which looked at how health policies that 131 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 2: were rejected by white America were killing white Americans at 132 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: a greater rate. You rejecting the Affordable Care Act, doing 133 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: all these pro gun stuff, all these things. And so 134 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: it's really interesting for me because in light of these 135 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: two books really coming out that are about whiteness, I've 136 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: been tracking a lot of articles that really complicate my argument, 137 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: particularly my Dying of Whiteness art art argument, which basically 138 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: say that maybe before the pandemic or twenty nineteen or 139 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: twenty ten to twenty something or other, there really was 140 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: a clear correlation between conservative politics and negative health outcomes, 141 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:40,359 Speaker 2: but now we're seeing those issues creep into liberal populations 142 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: as well, or maybe we're just doing research differently that 143 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: ask the same question of the question, is is it 144 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: the research or is it really happening? And so there 145 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 2: were two articles that have been on my mind, and 146 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: this is a long preamble to get to your question, 147 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: but the one that we'll talk about in a minute. 148 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: Here was an article in the Economist that showed how 149 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: deaths of despair is not just a metric for poor 150 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: white people anymore. Actually, if you look at different pathogens, 151 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 2: that's happening across multiple populations. But the one that you're 152 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: talking about really caught my eye because the header, of 153 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: course was does liberalism lead to mental illness? Basically? 154 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: And we and we know. I mean the reason why 155 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: I laugh, right is because we've heard that refrain from 156 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: the Maga supremis where they're you know, they they say 157 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: all types of things about liberals and liberal brain disease 158 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: and woke brain disease and blah blah blah. And so 159 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: when you sent it to me, initially I thought it 160 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: was a joke. 161 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: It was like, oh damn, there's some data here, here's 162 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: some data, and what's really interesting about it. So I 163 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: first let me just say, as a caveat, I would 164 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: take this research as a grain of salt, because it's done. 165 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: It was published by a religious outlet that has a 166 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 2: vested interest in telling people, yeah to go to for 167 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: their mental health. But that thing said it did kind 168 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: of feel right. I Mean, the basic argument was that liberals, 169 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 2: particularly liberals who identify as atheist or agnostic and are 170 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 2: non church going. So that's the big you know, red 171 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: flag or about the research right there. But it said 172 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: that basically, if you're socially unconnected, you have a higher 173 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: chance of getting a diagnosed with anxiety or depression or 174 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: other kind of loneliness disorders. Now, of course, you could 175 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: poke holes in this until the sun goes down. You know, 176 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: liberals are probably more likely to go to psychiatrists. If 177 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: you're atheist or agnostic, you're probably more likely to go 178 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 2: to a mental health practitioner than go to a confession 179 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: and things like that. But it did seem like something 180 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: that we used to I guess when I read the study, 181 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: I thought about the research that depression and heart attacks 182 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: are higher if your sports team loses. You know that basically, 183 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: if you feel like you're on the losing side or 184 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 2: there's no momentum, there's no community built thing around this, 185 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: that people feel isolated, particularly when they don't have a 186 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: fallback community. And I do think that there's a sense 187 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: of the world spinning away from us right now as 188 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: liberals that's not tied to like imagine if you don't believe, 189 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: or you don't go to church, or you know, you're 190 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: an atheist or something. Imagine like being a democrat in 191 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: the time of Obama, for example, there was a massive 192 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: social movement, you know, believe and hope and all these 193 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: kind of things. You were part of some bigger social movement. 194 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: And I don't know do liberals or democrats have that 195 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: right now. I don't think fighting the end of democracy 196 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: is like an uplifting movement in that way. And certainly 197 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: there is just a lot more depressing stuff, as you 198 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: and I talk about every week. And so the interesting 199 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: thing was it was kind of making this argument which 200 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: I'm curious, I'm curious about your thoughts about it, but 201 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 2: it basically said, even when you control for the fact 202 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 2: of who goes to psychiatrists more or less, us that 203 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: liberals are more likely to have mental illnesses link to loneliness. 204 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: In all honesty, we started to get into a greater 205 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: conversation about loneliness and the effects of loneliness in COVID, right, 206 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, and there being a lot of research that 207 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: was done and just you know, our own anecdotal research, 208 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: like humans are pack animals, we are communal animals, and 209 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: so when we are left in isolation, obviously you're going 210 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: to see a deterioration that happens in your mental health 211 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: and in connectivity. And then after right quote unquote, after 212 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: even though, folks, I just learned the other day that 213 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: a thousand people a week are still dying of COVID, 214 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: but we don't talk about it. Nonetheless, but after we 215 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: came out of isolation, re engaging with one another was 216 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: also really difficult thing to do. So I mean to me, 217 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: if you are involved in any type of regular community 218 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: based activity, whether that be through a religious institution, through 219 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: a sports team, you know, through a writing group or 220 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: dancing or what have you, like, that is going to 221 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: be fundamentally better for you than to remain in isolation 222 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: all day every day, particularly when you know a lot 223 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: of people still like myself, work from home, right and 224 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: so you know, while I communicate with people all day 225 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: long and talk NonStop, it isn't like I'm going into 226 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: a studio every single day and connecting with people in 227 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: real life. So taking those extra steps are really important. 228 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: But Jonathan, the other the other piece that you had 229 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: sent me is one that I that I also found 230 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: really troubling, which was the one that was in the 231 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: economists the depths of despair narrative is out of date. 232 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: Can you give us a kind of like fifty thousand 233 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: foot view on again, this kind of connecting to mental illness, 234 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: this rise that we're seeing, and why this should be 235 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: on our radar. 236 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: Sure. Well, So there were two very esteemed economists who 237 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: were coupled who had a argument basically that tracked where 238 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: it was really an unprecedented it's really unprecedented in industrialized 239 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 2: countries to see a fall in lifespan among people who 240 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: are in the demographic majority in other words, white men 241 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: a lot of times. And what they saw was the 242 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: across rust Belt America, Red state America, white longevity, white 243 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 2: lifespan was falling by two to four years in some instances, 244 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: which is again unprecedented if you were like in the 245 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: privileged quote unquote group. And so they looked in detail 246 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: at that and it was a lot of stuff that 247 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: I talk about in Dying of whiteness, you know, no 248 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 2: access to healthcare, but it was also a lot of 249 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: addiction fentanyl factors like that or you know, earlier versions 250 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: at that time. And so the idea was basically, you know, 251 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: their finding was white Americans are having a worse, worse 252 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: drop in life expectancy than pretty much any other group. 253 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: Other groups or more communal, They're less into guns, they're 254 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 2: less addicted, all these kind of things. They had two 255 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: versions of their book come out about Death to Despair 256 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: and a number of articles, and it was the jumping 257 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: up point for a lot of stuff, including for me. 258 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 2: It was very useful in dying of whiteness, even though 259 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 2: of course I tied it to the ideology the performativity 260 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: of what it means to be white in America. But 261 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: what we're seeing is economists are now al ying these 262 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 2: same metrics to other groups, and we're now seeing falling 263 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: lifespan among other groups as well. It's not just a 264 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: white people disorder. So Black Americans are dying of overdose 265 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 2: and gun violence and other factors in ways that are 266 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: impacting longevity. And the article in the Economists, I think, 267 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: did a really good job of talking about suicide in 268 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 2: Native American communities, for example, which is really impacting longevity. 269 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: And so trends that started as being a dying of 270 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 2: whiteness kind of disorder now look like they're a dying 271 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: of everybody kind of disorder. And to me, that's not 272 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 2: really surprising, right because, as you said, we're not tracking COVID, 273 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: and our health infrastructure is falling apart, and it's really 274 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: spotty across the country, and we're not having the kind 275 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: of unifying national programs that you would think in industrialized, 276 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: advanced society would do, like national health care for example, 277 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: and other things like that. And so in a way, 278 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: what we're seeing is that those same factors and also addiction, 279 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: right which has been a driving point of right wing 280 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: talking point that I personally don't feel like, with no disrespect, 281 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: liberals have done anywhere near a good enough job of 282 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: addressing or refuting or rebutting. Now their hands are tied 283 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: in many ways, but it gets tied into immigration and 284 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: then we can't answer and things like that. But it 285 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 2: really is having an effect on longevity. And so this 286 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: question of dying of whiteness, you know, it kind of 287 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: begs the question should I write another version of dying 288 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: of whiteness? I don't want to called that dying of 289 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: americanness in a way, which is what. 290 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: We're seeing, you know, And I think that that is 291 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's so troubling and so deep. First of all, 292 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, again going back to COVID, that we learned 293 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: that our life expectancy fell by three years collectively. I 294 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: think back down to what seventy three years old. But 295 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: when you are when you were basing that on various 296 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: demographics and various groups, the numbers, just like equal pay, 297 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: vary across the board. But I think that what is 298 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: startling is that to your point, for a highly quote 299 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: unquote one of the wealthiest nations and industrialized nations, a 300 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: democratic nation, for us not to have the healthcare system 301 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: that is preventative right for us to for for people. 302 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: I mean, now you have women that are basically waiting 303 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: in parking lots to die, you know, in order before 304 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: they get any type of care. You're you know, doctors 305 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: are giving you more medication because that, you know, feeds 306 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: into their bottom line as opposed to telling you, you know, 307 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: to get outside, maybe eat some plants and like, you know, 308 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: change your lifestyle. Well, that doesn't help the part of 309 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: sumical pharmaceutical industry. And so you know what I see, Jonathan, 310 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: which is very scary. The movie that I bring up 311 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: all the time, Elysium, terrible movie. Matt Damon, Jodie Foster, 312 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: you know, but all of the healthy, happy, you know, 313 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: fit people are in this place called Elysium, and Earth 314 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: has turned into a disease ridden, you know, toxic, horrible environment. 315 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: Stop me if it sounds like a documentary, and you 316 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: know what you are going to see, I think is 317 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: an incredible increase in divide and it's going to look 318 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: like help. So when you see people that are fit, 319 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: that are well rested, right, it is going to be 320 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: the privileged class. And I'm like, how do you combat 321 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: that inside of a system that doesn't want to give 322 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: health care to everybody? Because the politicians are racist, right, 323 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: and they don't want everyone to have care. They want 324 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: white people to have care. 325 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's part of it, absolutely, But I mean, 326 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 2: how many people got a COVID booster for example, COVID 327 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 2: boosters are the COVID booster. I have to say they 328 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: hit a home run with this booster. I mean, the 329 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: numbers on this COVID booster are incredible, but they couldn't 330 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 2: get anybody to get the COVID booster. Nobody got it. 331 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 2: And now there are states like Florida that even though 332 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: the data the data either there's another study this morning, 333 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: the data is a slam dunk on the COVID booster 334 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: in terms of safety, blocking long COVID, you know, not 335 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 2: having you know, seventy two percent reduction in hospitalization, all 336 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: these factors. But it's also it's not it's for me. 337 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: I have to say, I agree with you, of course 338 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: about socioeconomic class, but it's also an information and trust 339 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 2: issue because they're just the disinformation that's out there, the 340 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: trust in science, the defunding of science. I mean, again, 341 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 2: we have a vaccine that's that's effective, honestly effective, and 342 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 2: an entire state of Florida that is trying to block 343 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 2: the entire vaccine in that state. And so it's just 344 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 2: a weird moment that is tied to socioeconomics. But I 345 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 2: have to say, I think we're it's obviously politics, ideology, 346 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: all the things we've been talking about in terms of 347 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: the despair of American ness and things like that. Just 348 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 2: I think that a class analysis is part of this. 349 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: But I also think our country is ripping apart ideologically, 350 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: and it's impossible to have any kind of coherent narrative, 351 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: even if that narrative is like add four years to 352 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 2: your life. 353 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: You know, And that's the thing I just again, yes, 354 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: I believe that there is an information vacuum. I think 355 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: that there is a trust level, and I think that 356 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: all of these things were strategic and have been done 357 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: to continually rip this country apart, to make room for 358 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: a big strong man right, to make room for authoritarianism. 359 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: Because if all of the systems fail and then somebody 360 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: comes in and says, oh, I alone can fix this, 361 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: and you're in a place of desperation, well guess what 362 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: you're going to do. You're going to drink the sand 363 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: and think that it's water. All I have to say 364 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: to Peep is that you have to take your health 365 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: and wellness all across the board into your own hands, 366 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: because there are full systems in place to try and 367 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: make sure that you don't access health care. And even 368 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: though that there are the Biden administration tells people to 369 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: get their shots, tells people to get their boosters. We 370 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: know that medicine and medical information and public health have 371 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: been weaponized. So Jonathan, last question for you, which is, 372 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: you know, what do you want people to take away 373 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: from the from from kind of this narrative, this alarm 374 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: around despair and americanism. 375 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: We have an opportunity now as Democrats to reverse all 376 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 2: of these narratives, right I mean, there's really two choices, 377 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 2: as you've been saying, I think, very articulately on media 378 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 2: NonStop for the past couple of weeks. We can either 379 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 2: join in a cross cut movement to save democracy that 380 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: also has tons of health benefits, joining in a broader 381 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 2: coalition reaching across divides that you didn't think were possible, 382 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: being activists, being hopeful and advocating for things like better 383 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 2: healthcare and more universal gun safety and other factors like that. 384 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: So are the Democrats to going to create a big 385 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 2: tent where people feel like they're all under the tent? 386 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: Which is I don't know, it seems almost laughably impossible 387 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: right now, but that you know, right now, you've got 388 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: about ten months really to create. You have autonomy for 389 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: the next ten months to create that movement to you know, 390 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 2: as they said in my childhood Kumbaya or that decision 391 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,479 Speaker 2: is going to be made for you and it's going 392 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 2: to be leading to a lot more despair. And there's 393 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 2: a pretty clear choice of a big tent right now. 394 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 2: So I don't I know that it's almost funny hearing 395 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 2: the words come out of my mouth because it feels 396 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 2: so impossible. But I would just say, we have a 397 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: choice right now, which is are we going to build 398 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 2: alliances that improve these metrics or are we going to 399 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: go the other direction? And so I realize I'm just 400 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 2: riffing off of your talking point, but it has to 401 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 2: be the talking point. 402 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, you know, and I as belate, 403 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: A'm struggling with that talking point because people are fucking 404 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: angry and I don't know if it's going to subside 405 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: in the next ten months. And I am worried, you know, 406 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: as everybody else is. I am. I am absolutely worried 407 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: because we say this with every election, but this is 408 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: absolutely the last election if Joe Biden doesn't win. And 409 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: trust me, folks, Joe Biden is not one of my 410 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: favorite fucking characters right now at all. But I also 411 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: know what the alternative is. As always, doctor Jonathan metzell 412 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: our in house doctor. So happy to see you happy 413 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: and healthy in the new year, folks. We will be 414 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: at green Light Bookstore in Brooklyn on February fifth. Absolutely 415 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: go go, go and check us out. Go head to 416 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: Jonathan's website Jonathannetzel dot com, and you can find out 417 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: all of the information there and if you follow him 418 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: on social media and me, we will be promoting it 419 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: as well. Appreciate you hanging there, everybody. That is it 420 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: for me today, Dear friends on Woke af AS always, 421 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power, 422 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.