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Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 3: Well this week, gail politics and US politics all front
Speaker 3: and center for US, and yes, Nvidia did report earnings.
Speaker 3: You can check out that huge market focus by heading
Speaker 3: to Bloomberg dot Com or the Bloomberg We did want
Speaker 3: to just highlight that for us, though, as we said,
Speaker 3: we were all in about the new political reality, facing
Speaker 3: serious issues globally and right here at home.
Speaker 4: On that, we ponder President elect Trump's impossible task. He's
Speaker 4: made promises of policy for both the working class and
Speaker 4: the rich. How does that actually work?
Speaker 3: It's a great question. Plus one of President Elect Donald
Speaker 3: Trump's more controversial nominees, RFK Junior as the nation's top
Speaker 3: health official. On what it may mean for healthcare in
Speaker 3: America and the next generation, and.
Speaker 4: Another win for Elon in the new administration, and venture
Speaker 4: capital and innovation in the Middle East. All that to come.
Speaker 4: We begin with Bloomberg BusinessWeek national correspondent Josh Green.
Speaker 3: Josh is the author of Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald
Speaker 3: Trump in the Nationalist Uprising. He also wrote The Rebels
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio Cortes, and the Struggle
Speaker 3: for a New American Politics.
Speaker 4: Josh's BusinessWeek story. It tackles how Trump is attempting to
Speaker 4: pull off what Josh calls quote pollutocratic populism, but the
Speaker 4: math just doesn't square well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it was a surprise to a lot
Speaker 5: of people, but in a lot of ways, it's a
Speaker 5: much more impressive victory than his win in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 5: which took a lot of people by surprise. He did
Speaker 5: not win a majority of the popular vote that time.
Speaker 5: Looks almost certain that he will this time. And I
Speaker 5: think what's most important is that coalition that Trump put
Speaker 5: together in winning the twenty twenty four election. There were
Speaker 5: both the kind of high wattage billionaire supporters, people like
Speaker 5: Howard lutt Nick and Elon Musk, But on the other hand,
Speaker 5: Trump cobbled together a really racially diverse working class coalition
Speaker 5: that we hadn't seen the last time around. A lot
Speaker 5: of voters that traditionally vote Democrat were persuaded to come
Speaker 5: over and vote for Trump, and as a result, he
Speaker 5: has a really big coalition. As I write about in
Speaker 5: the new issue of BusinessWeek, Trump has pursued this kind
Speaker 5: of what I call plutocratic populism, and I think the
Speaker 5: main tension in his second presidency is going to be
Speaker 5: how to balance the interests of working class people with
Speaker 5: the interests of the billionaire and Wall Street crowd, who
Speaker 5: are another important coalition.
Speaker 4: For So let's talk a little bit about that, Josh.
Speaker 4: Because you came with receipts, you have the numbers here.
Speaker 4: Why is that an impossible task? Why is he unable
Speaker 4: to do that and make good on really every promise
Speaker 4: that he made on the campaign trail.
Speaker 5: Well, if you look at exit poll numbers and just
Speaker 5: in my own interviews with undecided voters and people were
Speaker 5: trying supporters, a lot of what drove Trump's support was
Speaker 5: voter anger, especially working class voter anger over inflation high prices,
Speaker 5: for which they blamed Kamala Harris personally. They didn't want
Speaker 5: her back in there. They remember the Trump era, rightly
Speaker 5: or wrongly, as a time of lower prices, lower inflation,
Speaker 5: strong paychecks for everybody, and so they voted for Trump
Speaker 5: in the hopes that.
Speaker 6: He would bring that back.
Speaker 5: But if you look at what some of Trump is
Speaker 5: planning to do, you know, the first item on his
Speaker 5: agenda looks to be extending his twenty seventeen tax cuts
Speaker 5: and maybe even cutting corporate taxes deeper than he did
Speaker 5: the first time around, which would be very exciting to
Speaker 5: his Wall Street contingent, to his billionaire contingent, But it
Speaker 5: could certainly help exacerbate inflation, as could.
Speaker 6: A steep round of tariffs.
Speaker 5: So on the one hand, you know, you could satisfy
Speaker 5: one half of the coalition, But if the cost of
Speaker 5: that was for prices, inflation, and interest rates to rise again,
Speaker 5: then a lot of the same working class voters who
Speaker 5: supported him two weeks ago could potentially turn on him
Speaker 5: and Republicans in the midterm elections and handpower back to
Speaker 5: the Democrats.
Speaker 3: Hey, how much do you think though Donald J. Trump
Speaker 3: thinks about the midterms at this point?
Speaker 7: All?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 3: I mean essentially, right, is this his second term.
Speaker 9: He's a lame duck president.
Speaker 3: He can do a lot of stuff, and he's got
Speaker 3: a congress, But how much do you think he thinks
Speaker 3: about what happens at midterms versus following through on his mandate.
Speaker 6: It's a great question, Carrol.
Speaker 5: It's one I've asked to some people around him, and
Speaker 5: the truthful answer I got is he doesn't really care
Speaker 5: at all. What he cares about is this approval rating.
Speaker 5: He'd like to have a booming stock market the way
Speaker 5: he did in his first term, and so part of
Speaker 5: the thinking in Trump world is that even if he
Speaker 5: did promote someone a Treasury secretary who got behind this
Speaker 5: tariff regime and things went badly in the economy, if
Speaker 5: the market were to fall, that might be a kind
Speaker 5: of disciplining mechanism for Trump to step back a little bit,
Speaker 5: because he really does view the stock mark at the
Speaker 5: S and P as a kind of verdict on the
Speaker 5: success or failure of his presidency. But certainly, thinking about
Speaker 5: the fortunes of congressional Republicans in twenty twenty six, it
Speaker 5: is probably not top of mind for Donald Trump right now.
Speaker 6: That's interesting to hear.
Speaker 4: Why do you think that is? Because it sort of
Speaker 4: does provide, to a certain extent a check on what
Speaker 4: he's able to do, because if he puts policies into
Speaker 4: place that are unpopular among his base, then he could
Speaker 4: really pay a price in the midterms.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he could.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've gotten a couple answers from that in
Speaker 5: my reporting. One is that Trump simply does not believe
Speaker 5: what most mainstream economists believe, and that is that tariffs
Speaker 5: are inflationary and the cost will be passed along to
Speaker 5: consumers in the form of higher prices. I am my
Speaker 5: business We colleagues got to ask Trump about that for
Speaker 5: a Business We Cover story cover interview we did with
Speaker 5: Donald Trump back in July at Mara a Lago, and
Speaker 5: he simply disagrees. He said, well, if tariffs were inflationary,
Speaker 5: we would have had inflation during my first presidency. I
Speaker 5: imposed rounds of tariffs and we didn't, and therefore it's
Speaker 5: not going to be a problem. A lot of people
Speaker 5: around Trump publicly surrogates, have taken to echoing those points. So,
Speaker 5: as one of my sources pointed out to me in
Speaker 5: my current Business Week story, Trump doesn't believe that tariffs
Speaker 5: are inflationary. Therefore he's not going to believe it until
Speaker 5: they're implemented and until we see inflation. So to me,
Speaker 5: that suggests that we may be in for a rocky
Speaker 5: ride financially economically over the next four years if Trump
Speaker 5: is able to go ahead and do what he says
Speaker 5: he's going to do. And there are fewer guardrails and
Speaker 5: fewer breaks with Republicans controlling all three branches of Congress
Speaker 5: now than there were last time around. So I think
Speaker 5: I think his theories on tariffs and everything else make
Speaker 5: it a real test run.
Speaker 3: I also do wonder, Josh, do you think Donald Trump
Speaker 3: thinks about his legacy? You know two assassination tempts, you know,
Speaker 3: one that we you know, obviously more serious it seems
Speaker 3: in certainly than the other one. But I do wonder
Speaker 3: if he's an older man, right, we all get older,
Speaker 3: we start to think about kind of our life's impact.
Speaker 3: Is this your understanding of him? You think he's thinking
Speaker 3: about that?
Speaker 5: In the second I'll say this, I'll say, you know,
Speaker 5: he and I have never had that discussion. But from
Speaker 5: everything I've seen from him, from everything I've heard from
Speaker 5: people around him, Trump tends to live in the here
Speaker 5: and now. I mean, he is responsive to the cable
Speaker 5: chirons that he sees on TV. He's responsive to the
Speaker 5: closing price in the stock market, not so much thinking
Speaker 5: about how his obituary will look in the New York Times.
Speaker 5: But that being said, look, all presidents like to succeed.
Speaker 5: I'm sure Trump would like high approval numbers and a
Speaker 5: lot of the signifiers that Trump looks to for validation,
Speaker 5: things like the level of the stock market, the wealth
Speaker 5: of the United States, the trade deficit. Those are all
Speaker 5: measuring sticks that I think Trump is going to use
Speaker 5: to measure his own performance. And we'll have to see
Speaker 5: if he can get those boosted along the lines that
Speaker 5: I know he wants to based on the policies that
Speaker 5: he said he's going to pursue, and if he can
Speaker 5: do it without breaking apart that broad coalition of both
Speaker 5: Wall Street folks and working class folks that got him
Speaker 5: elected on November.
Speaker 4: Fifth, Josh, speaking of policies, do you believe that he
Speaker 4: will actually make good based on the folks you talk
Speaker 4: to of deporting millions of people who are here illegally
Speaker 4: on day one.
Speaker 5: He's certainly shown every sign that he intends to do that,
Speaker 5: both from the people he's put in top level positions,
Speaker 5: people like Stephen Miller, and Tom Holmans that would lead
Speaker 5: that effort to some of the comments he's made more
Speaker 5: recently about being willing to deputize US law enforcement to
Speaker 5: help carry out this deportation. So, everything we've seen so
Speaker 5: far suggests that yes, Trump is very serious about that
Speaker 5: and intends to pursue it as president.
Speaker 3: Hey, just thirty seconds here to wrap up, and you've
Speaker 3: wrap up your piece. I mean, Donald Trump may also
Speaker 3: just be lucky in terms of timing right policies put
Speaker 3: in place by the Body administration. He may reap the
Speaker 3: benefits up just quickly.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean.
Speaker 5: The thing that galls so many bidens people in so
Speaker 5: many democratic sources is look at the economy Joe Biden
Speaker 5: has bequeathed Donald Trump. We have inflation coming down, the
Speaker 5: stock market is at record highs. We have all these
Speaker 5: new jobs in manufacturing factories being built all across the
Speaker 5: country with money that Biden really helped put in place.
Speaker 5: And now Donald Trump is about to take over as
Speaker 5: president and reap the political benefits and credit for all
Speaker 5: of those things. Great timing for Donald Trump, not so
Speaker 5: great timing for Joe Biden.
Speaker 4: That was Josh Green Bloomberg, BusinessWeek, National correspondent an author
Speaker 4: of the book Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump and
Speaker 4: the Nationalist Uprising, and more recently The Rebels Elizabeth Warren,
Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders, AOC and The Rise of the New Left.
Speaker 3: Both great takes on politics in America. Well a lot
Speaker 3: this week regarding possible people and policies around the second
Speaker 3: Trump White House. On that, another story we've been looking
Speaker 3: at this week, Donald Trump's federal framework for self driving vehicles.
Speaker 4: If new rules enable wider deployment of cars without human
Speaker 4: controls think no pedals, no steering wheel, it will directly
Speaker 4: benefit Tesla's CEO and big donor buddy of the President elect. Yes,
Speaker 4: we are talking about Elon Musk. Elon has bet the
Speaker 4: future of the ev maker on self driving tech and AI.
Speaker 4: David Welsh is Bloomberg News Detroit Bureau chief. He breaks
Speaker 4: it all down.
Speaker 10: What we're talking about is a federal framework governing av's
Speaker 10: in pretty much every way, but specifically looking at vehicles
Speaker 10: that don't have those human controls. That's a truly driverless vehicle.
Speaker 10: That's what Elon Musk wants to put on the road
Speaker 10: in a couple of years with Tesla and that's what
Speaker 10: has basically changed the valuation in the stock. Investors were
Speaker 10: worried that the eede business was kind of settling into
Speaker 10: a decently profitable, slow growth sort of thing, and he
Speaker 10: energized interest in the stock again with this robotaxi business. So,
Speaker 10: when you don't have a federal framework for that, you're
Speaker 10: relying on different states, this patchwork quild of regulations. It
Speaker 10: is actually very tough to run them. In California, they
Speaker 10: get monitored strictly, almost impossible in New York, but states
Speaker 10: like Arizona and Texas are pretty permissive.
Speaker 6: There's nothing at the federal level.
Speaker 10: What they do is they try to kind of shoehorn
Speaker 10: avs into existing rules that were ridden before autonomous vehicles
Speaker 10: were around. And there have been several efforts in Congress
Speaker 10: and then the Senate to pass rules, and they've always
Speaker 10: tripped up over something or other. What the Transportation Department
Speaker 10: could do is they could streamline permitting and they could
Speaker 10: expand the use of evs from what they have now,
Speaker 10: which basically says if you get an exemption for a
Speaker 10: vehicle that doesn't have a steering wheel and brake pedal,
Speaker 10: for example, you can run twenty five hundred of those
Speaker 10: a year.
Speaker 6: That's it. General Motors tried.
Speaker 10: To get this exemption two years, they waited around, they
Speaker 10: finally dropped the project. And only one other company that
Speaker 10: I know of, neuro a startup that has that delivers goods,
Speaker 10: not people in their robotaxis or in their autonomous vehicles,
Speaker 10: got an exemption. So it's tough to get and very limited.
Speaker 9: Hey, listen, one thing I want to ask you.
Speaker 3: I mean, I get it that having a patch work
Speaker 3: is probably not great on something like that, So I
Speaker 3: kind of get the understanding of the need for a
Speaker 3: federal framework. Having said that, don't we still have a
Speaker 3: lot of safety issues to figure this one out.
Speaker 10: There are, And that's why I think the fact that
Speaker 10: the Transportation Department under Trump wants to do this is
Speaker 10: good news for autonomous vehicle companies because you get the
Speaker 10: start of a framework, you know, at that level, and
Speaker 10: maybe instead of twenty five hundred vehicles, they could expand
Speaker 10: that and they could streamline that process. But to really
Speaker 10: scale this up and to make this a regular thing,
Speaker 10: you're probably still going to need a law passed by Congress.
Speaker 10: You're going to need the Senate in the House to
Speaker 10: both weigh in and to prove this, and that's what's
Speaker 10: always been tough. You have safety groups, you have trial
Speaker 10: lawyers groups, you have unions who come in and weigh in,
Speaker 10: and politicians get cold feet because these constituents aren't crazy
Speaker 10: about autonomy. And look, you do have safety concern here
Speaker 10: with you know, if you just get too permissive, this
Speaker 10: is the wild Western. You've got robotaxis and autonomous trucks
Speaker 10: all over the place.
Speaker 6: You know, some people are going to be concerned about that.
Speaker 6: And we'll still have a debate on this.
Speaker 4: Holy shit, Hey, David, how's all this playing out in Detroit?
Speaker 4: I mean, you're in motor City right now. This is
Speaker 4: a state that was considered a toss up swing state,
Speaker 4: battleground state, call it whatever you want. It went for
Speaker 4: it for Trump this time. If you're one of the
Speaker 4: folks who works at one of these American auto manufacturers
Speaker 4: and you see Elon Musk by the side of Donald
Speaker 4: Trump day in and day out, what are you thinking
Speaker 4: right now?
Speaker 10: I think the biggest worry they would have it wouldn't
Speaker 10: be for robotaxi, by the way, I think the bigger
Speaker 10: fear is that with few economy rules and with incentives
Speaker 10: for electric vehicles that you know, Elon Musk is sitting
Speaker 10: next to Donald Trump down on mar Lago if he's
Speaker 10: okay with getting rid of the seventy five hundred hour
Speaker 10: consumer tax credit to buy evs because.
Speaker 6: His company makes pretty good money on them.
Speaker 10: And sells a lot of them without tax credits, and
Speaker 10: he thinks it'll be worse on General motors, worse on Ford, Toyota,
Speaker 10: et cetera. Then that's what happened because Trump doesn't doesn't
Speaker 10: want to keep funding these tax credits. They're just tough
Speaker 10: run on these companies that are trying to build up
Speaker 10: a supply base, trying to build up a customer base,
Speaker 10: and trying to drive down costs because they're kind of
Speaker 10: at the early part of their EV business. That's worrisome
Speaker 10: to them. And then you know what happens with few
Speaker 10: economy rules. You know, are they written in a way
Speaker 10: or changed in a way that's better for Tesla adventages
Speaker 10: for the other company?
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 4: So that's what I wanted to get at, is like,
Speaker 4: what about Elon's influence. It's not like you have you know,
Speaker 4: Mary Bara having the ear of the incoming president day
Speaker 4: in and day out or another auto executive. I mean,
Speaker 4: Elon Musk is on the plane. He's going to UFC fights.
Speaker 4: He's down to mar A Lago. He's there the whole time.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 10: He's spending an awful lot of time there. So he's
Speaker 10: going to have he's going to be weighing in on
Speaker 10: the agenda for the auto industry. Pretty have we we'll see.
Speaker 3: But are folks in Detroit, the major executives at the
Speaker 3: major US auto manufacturers like wait a minute, unfair advantage.
Speaker 10: They're in a tough spot because they didn't always get
Speaker 10: their way with Trump or with Biden for that matter,
Speaker 10: when they were lobbying the old fashioned way, and now
Speaker 10: they've got this new gigantic wrinkle where one of their
Speaker 10: prime competitors is basically probably the most influential personality in
Speaker 10: President elect Trump's center circle.
Speaker 4: That was David Welsh, Bloomberg News Detroit bureau chief.
Speaker 3: Coming up, the vocal vaccine skeptic that is now the
Speaker 3: pick to become the nation's top health official.
Speaker 4: What the selection of Rfk Junior may mean for healthcare
Speaker 4: in America. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg.
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Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 11: Robert F.
Speaker 3: Kennedy Junior's selection to serve as president like Donald Trump's
Speaker 3: top health official is prompting questions from policy watchers over
Speaker 3: how the pick will handle the range of health and
Speaker 3: really key health policies that would fall under his purview.
Speaker 4: He's an environmental lawyer and vocal vaccine skeptic. He's publicly
Speaker 4: taken positions against food additives and immunization recommendations, but the
Speaker 4: nominee for Secretary of the US Department of Health and
Speaker 4: Human Services has been relatively quiet on many of the
Speaker 4: other issues he would oversee while leading thirteen supporting agencies
Speaker 4: in more than eighty thousand federal employees. So let's get
Speaker 4: to the interview we got with us doctor Paul Offitt,
Speaker 4: director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital
Speaker 4: of Philadelphia, who joins us from Philadelphia. Doctor, good to
Speaker 4: have you with us. How might RFK Junior impact healthcare, food,
Speaker 4: medical research and more? Here in the US.
Speaker 12: He is a very long anti vaccine activist. He is
Speaker 12: a science denihilist, and he is a conspiracy theorist. This
Speaker 12: is not the kind of person you want to head
Speaker 12: health agencies. I mean, he has said that no vaccine
Speaker 12: is a benefit. He has said that the polio vaccine
Speaker 12: killed more people than it ever saved. He thinks that
Speaker 12: HIV human am deficiency virus is not the cause of AIDS.
Speaker 12: He's an AIDS denialist. He thinks we should drink raw milk,
Speaker 12: which will put us once again in a position of
Speaker 12: risking things like campelo backer and he call I and salmonella.
Speaker 12: He thinks that the SARS virus was created in the
Speaker 12: laboratory and specifically designed to spare Ashkenazi Jews in Chinese
Speaker 12: and target whites and blacks. I mean, this is the
Speaker 12: man you want to head health agencies.
Speaker 3: I don't think So what scares you the most, Well,
Speaker 3: what scares.
Speaker 12: Me the most is is that that he now has
Speaker 12: has a bigger platform to be anti vaccine. So, I mean,
Speaker 12: he's always had a platform owing to the famous name,
Speaker 12: but now that he's even considered for this position gives
Speaker 12: him a certain level of credibility which he certainly doesn't deserve.
Speaker 12: Let's suppose you have a vaccine that is submitted to
Speaker 12: the FDA for licensure, and it's it's excellent, and it's
Speaker 12: better than what we've had. I think, you know, say
Speaker 12: I'm on the FDA Vaccine Devisory Committee. Let's say that
Speaker 12: we recommend a licensure, and then the FDA considers that
Speaker 12: recommendation and degrees he could say, no, I think they're
Speaker 12: to be more study. Similarly, he could try and strip
Speaker 12: away the CDC's capacity to recommend vaccines. He could take
Speaker 12: the advisory committees to both those agencies, FDA and CDC
Speaker 12: and try and stock it with people who are similarly
Speaker 12: like minded science denialists, such as himself. I don't understand this.
Speaker 12: And when he talks about, for example, something that makes sense,
Speaker 12: which is trying to make our country healthier, decrease obesity,
Speaker 12: decrease type two diabetes and the consequences of those disorders
Speaker 12: such as strokes and heart attacks, I'm all for that
Speaker 12: great idea, but there are a lot of people out
Speaker 12: there who could do that job much better than he can,
Speaker 12: given his science denialism.
Speaker 3: Doctor Offitt on vaccine specifically, Robert F. Kennedy, as you know,
Speaker 3: has often been referred to as a vaccine skeptic. You
Speaker 3: call yourself a vaccine skeptic.
Speaker 9: What's the difference.
Speaker 12: A skeptic is somebody who says, prove it to me,
Speaker 12: show me you're right. So when we sit around the
Speaker 12: table at the FDA Vaccine Advisor Committee and consider vaccines,
Speaker 12: as we did for the COVID vaccines, for example, in
Speaker 12: December of twenty twenty, show us the data, prove that
Speaker 12: it's effect, that prove that it's safe, so that we
Speaker 12: can then recommend it in good conscience. That's skepticisms. Skepticism
Speaker 12: is healthy. He's a cynic. He's a vaccine cynic. He
Speaker 12: doesn't believe the data. He thinks that there are dark,
Speaker 12: evil forces working behind the scenes that are misrepresenting data.
Speaker 12: What he doesn't realize is that that there is no hiding.
Speaker 12: Even a farm pharmacytical company misrepresented data on safety or
Speaker 12: efficacy that will soon be found out because there are
Speaker 12: post marketing studies like that can be done by the
Speaker 12: Vaccine Safety Data Link, where you'll know if there's a
Speaker 12: problem immediately. There is no hiding. So his whole premise
Speaker 12: is wrong.
Speaker 4: One thing that I've been wondering is how different are
Speaker 4: we than other developed countries or other wealthy countries when
Speaker 4: it comes to vaccine schedules. Doctor, Do we do things
Speaker 4: differently than other countries around the world.
Speaker 12: We tend to recommend more vaccines than most other countries. So,
Speaker 12: for example, the chicken pox vaccine, which came onto the
Speaker 12: market in nineteen ninety five, is not used in a
Speaker 12: number of developed world countries. They're willing to have children
Speaker 12: suffer ticken pox. In this country, obviously, there would be
Speaker 12: millions of cases of chicken pox a year, and there'd
Speaker 12: be about seventy five to two hundred people who would
Speaker 12: die of chicken pox, and there would be tens of
Speaker 12: thousands of hospitalizations. So we thought that was worth eliminating.
Speaker 12: But you know, not all countries felt the same way.
Speaker 4: Other than that, though, are there aren't big differences?
Speaker 12: No, No, For the most part, the developed world doesn't
Speaker 12: like children.
Speaker 6: So we would.
Speaker 4: So if you did over end up overseeing the CDC
Speaker 4: and changing the recommendations, we'd be an outlier in this country.
Speaker 4: Based on some of the recommendations that he.
Speaker 12: Could make, right, I think his fanatical anti vaccine activism
Speaker 12: has already scared people. I mean, if you look, for example,
Speaker 12: over the last few years, their number of cases of
Speaker 12: measles have increased dramatically. Last year we had three thousand
Speaker 12: cases of protessler hooping cough. This year we have seventeen thousand.
Speaker 12: We've had more than two hundred children less than eighteen
Speaker 12: years of eight dive influenza over the pissure. That's a
Speaker 12: high number. So you're already seeing an erosion in trust,
Speaker 12: already seeing an erosion in vaccine rates among kindergartens, and
Speaker 12: as a consequence, you're seeing an increase in infectious diseases
Speaker 12: that are preventable. It's unconscionable.
Speaker 9: I have to say.
Speaker 3: I have talked with colleagues and friends and associates who
Speaker 3: have autistic children now adults, and who are open to
Speaker 3: the idea that maybe vaccines cause this problem. So like
Speaker 3: there is you know, I've had these discussions. I guess
Speaker 3: what I wonder about, are we going to maybe depending
Speaker 3: on what comes out, if RFK is indeed our next
Speaker 3: top health voice here in the administration, that will that
Speaker 3: potentially lead to maybe some kind of ruling or mandate
Speaker 3: that comes down that says we don't believe in vaccines,
Speaker 3: and then are they not covered by insurance? Like, how
Speaker 3: does this potentially play out realistically?
Speaker 13: Right?
Speaker 12: So, so there's the Vaccine for Children's Program, which was
Speaker 12: born in the nineteen nineties, and the Clinton administration, which
Speaker 12: basically covers about half of the vaccines in this country
Speaker 12: for children who are either under insured or uninsured. I
Speaker 12: don't think he could touch that. I mean, that's really
Speaker 12: a congressional program. The Congress would have to agree to that.
Speaker 12: I can't imagine that happened. He could make it more
Speaker 12: difficult to get insurance generally for vaccines, making them more
Speaker 12: expensive for the consumer, that's possible. I mean, I think
Speaker 12: he'll do everything he can to lessen the imunization rate.
Speaker 12: This is what he says. I think that, you know,
Speaker 12: the parents should make decisions well with their doctor and
Speaker 12: basically pull the CCC out of it. Let let us
Speaker 12: look at the real data. And he's going to show
Speaker 12: us the real data because only he knows the real
Speaker 12: data because he's a conspiracy theorist. It's it's hard to watch.
Speaker 12: I do think there'll be an erosion in vaccine rates
Speaker 12: and regarding autism, it's fair to ask the question. My
Speaker 12: child was fine, they got a vaccine, Now they're not fine.
Speaker 12: Could the vaccine have done it? That's an answerable question,
Speaker 12: and it's been answered. There's been eighteen studies done in
Speaker 12: seven country on three con instead have shown vaccines don't
Speaker 12: cause autism. Question asked unanswered.
Speaker 3: Is the medical community get, you know, gearing up to
Speaker 3: fight back?
Speaker 12: Yes, but again, you know we're not good at this stuff.
Speaker 12: I mean I think, well, fight will certainly fight back
Speaker 12: the way we knew how, which is which is to
Speaker 12: try and present all the data that we know supports vaccines.
Speaker 12: But this is really becoming a political issue, so I
Speaker 12: think it's going to have to have a political solution.
Speaker 12: I think we're gonna have to find those senators who,
Speaker 12: assuming there is a confirmation hearing, that are reasonable enough
Speaker 12: to say that this is not the guy you want
Speaker 12: in that position.
Speaker 4: So, after RFK was announced, the governor of Colorado, Jared Polis,
Speaker 4: sent a post on accident said he was excited because
Speaker 4: of a vaccine choice and he helped push back in
Speaker 4: Colorado when it came to this particular topic. Can you
Speaker 4: share your view as to why it's important for lots
Speaker 4: of people to get vaccines? Because if it is a
Speaker 4: parent's choice, and you know that parent chooses to get
Speaker 4: their kid vaccinate against something, it's not necessarily that that
Speaker 4: kid is actually protected if other kids aren't protected.
Speaker 12: Exactly right. So if you step on a rusty nail
Speaker 12: and you go to the doctor and you say I
Speaker 12: don't want a tennis vaccine and you get tetanus, no
Speaker 12: one's going to catch tennis from you. It's not a
Speaker 12: contagious disease. Measles is, influenza is, and others are. So
Speaker 12: a choice not to get vaccine is a choice not
Speaker 12: only for yourself, but for those with whom you come
Speaker 12: in contact. And remember there are about nine million people
Speaker 12: in this country who can't be vaccinated because they're getting
Speaker 12: chemotherapy for their cancer or immute suppressive therapy for the
Speaker 12: autoimmune diseases. They depend on those around them to protect them.
Speaker 12: Do we have any responsibility for our neighbors? It is
Speaker 12: hard to watch. If you look what happened with Stars
Speaker 12: Kobe two, those counties that were generally under vaccinated had
Speaker 12: much higher rates of hospitalization and death than those counties
Speaker 12: that were highly vaccinated, And that affects the people. If
Speaker 12: you're better off, actually being unvaccinated living in a highly
Speaker 12: vaccinated community than being vaccinated living in a highly unvaccinated unity.
Speaker 6: That's wild to hear.
Speaker 4: What about the power of states and local municipalities over this?
Speaker 4: For example, I have a kid in the New York
Speaker 4: City public school district and he has to get a
Speaker 4: certain number of vaccines in order to actually be able
Speaker 4: to go to school. That's a way for them to say, Okay,
Speaker 4: well we are making this choice, or for the parent
Speaker 4: to make this choice to vaccinate vaccinate their kids against
Speaker 4: these things. Isn't there power are there at the local level?
Speaker 12: Yeah? Well, mandates are state ron I mean, there's not
Speaker 12: federal mandates. I mean the school vaccine mandates are done
Speaker 12: by states in different states actually have different vaccines that
Speaker 12: day mandate. But we've had school mandates from the books
Speaker 12: for decades. There was about by nineteen sixty four to five,
Speaker 12: about twenty five schools states had school mandates. By the
Speaker 12: mid seventies, that went up to forty. By nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 12: all fifty states had school vaccine mandates. And with that,
Speaker 12: with the enforcement of school vaccine mandates, we went from
Speaker 12: forty seven thousand cases of measles a year seventy five
Speaker 12: thousand cases of measles a year and one hundred and
Speaker 12: fifty deaths from measles a year to eliminating that disease
Speaker 12: from this country by the year two thousand. But it's
Speaker 12: come back in part because the critical percentage of parents
Speaker 12: are choosing not to vaccinate their children.
Speaker 3: Yeah, numbers tell a story. Hey, listen, speaking of choice revaccination.
Speaker 3: You know we do have choices what to eat, We
Speaker 3: have choices. McDonald's is clearly a favorite a president like
Speaker 3: Donald Trump.
Speaker 9: During the campaign.
Speaker 3: He even helps serve customers at one restaurant. I got
Speaker 3: to say, I'm a fan of their fries.
Speaker 9: Full disclosure.
Speaker 3: We've seen Donald Trump and RFK Junior and Elon and
Speaker 3: others chowing down on McDonald's together.
Speaker 4: Oh, to be fair, rfk's holding the burger. He's not
Speaker 4: chowing yet.
Speaker 9: Okay, so maybe he's just holding.
Speaker 3: Maybe's a little osmosis going on there. Just got about
Speaker 3: thirty seconds here. I do think about the role of
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, what impact he might have in terms of
Speaker 3: his thinking about health and medical care and all that
Speaker 3: good stuff. I mean, we saw what he did during
Speaker 3: his first term with COVID and getting a vaccine, So
Speaker 3: how do you think his impact might be on what
Speaker 3: goes on in this area?
Speaker 12: Now, I think he's hard to predict Donald Trump, but
Speaker 12: I think that scene, though, with him sitting there and
Speaker 12: Elon Musk and RFK Junior and Mike Johnson and others
Speaker 12: eating Donald's I think my take home from a message
Speaker 12: from that scene was Donald Trump telling Robert Kennedy Jr.
Speaker 12: You'll eat what I tell you.
Speaker 4: To our thanks to doctor Paul Offitt, director of the
Speaker 4: Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Still ahead on Bloomberg Business she calls herself the only
Speaker 3: Arab woman in the Middle East running a VC fund.
Speaker 4: And she's investing in everything from agtech to AI. This
Speaker 4: is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live
Speaker 2: each weekday starting a two pm Easter on applecar Play
Speaker 2: and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can
Speaker 2: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New
Speaker 2: York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty Carol.
Speaker 4: We know that Dubai is the Middle East main business hub,
Speaker 4: but get this, Abu Dhabi and Riad now each control
Speaker 4: over a trillion dollars in sovereign wealth, making them the
Speaker 4: biggest pools of capital in the world.
Speaker 3: It's massive, well talk about a viable competitor. That has
Speaker 3: prompted firms like Blackrock CEO Larry Fink setting up operations
Speaker 3: in the two countries, and earlier this week Blackrock received
Speaker 3: a commercial license to operate in Abu Dhabi. It's the
Speaker 3: latest sign that the asset manager is looking to deepen
Speaker 3: its ties across the region.
Speaker 4: Someone who's got her finger on the pulse of all
Speaker 4: things when it comes to capital in the Middle East
Speaker 4: is North Swede. She's founder and managing partner at the
Speaker 4: UAE based international VC firm Global Ventures. Her company has
Speaker 4: got offices all over the region, including in Dubai, Cairo
Speaker 4: and riod And. Noor says she's the only Arab women
Speaker 4: in the Middle East running a VC fund.
Speaker 1: So last quarter was the first quarter where we had
Speaker 1: fifty one percent of venture dollars in the region actually
Speaker 1: coming from abroad, So that ecosystem is going very.
Speaker 11: Quickly versus domestics.
Speaker 1: Domestically, which is usually I mean five years ago it
Speaker 1: was seventy five percent domestic. Now it's forty nine percent
Speaker 1: domestic domestic meaning regional vcs investing. So we have many
Speaker 1: of the international vcs looking at the region not just
Speaker 1: for regional opportunity, but for true innovation, which is different.
Speaker 11: And you see that especially in the UAE.
Speaker 1: So in the UEA specifically, last year, seventy three percent
Speaker 1: of the GDP was non oil sector. So it's not
Speaker 1: that the region's trying to diverse.
Speaker 11: Say that again.
Speaker 3: The reason I think about that, I remember, I don't know,
Speaker 3: thirty years ago, like a national geographic and it just
Speaker 3: talked about the Middle East was thinking about kind of
Speaker 3: a non carbon based economy, like they knew things were
Speaker 3: going to change. Say that number again.
Speaker 1: So seventy three percent of ua GDP last year was
Speaker 1: non oil related. So when you think about what that means,
Speaker 1: it's not that the regions trying to diversify had diversified,
Speaker 1: or at least the UAE has Saudi's following suit and
Speaker 1: the next ones, and so it is really an innovation
Speaker 1: economy and knowledge economy moving towards you know, new sectors
Speaker 1: rather than just we're stuck in oil. So that correlated
Speaker 1: with how much international funding is coming in, really puts
Speaker 1: us in a position where all sectors are innovative right now,
Speaker 1: we are leap flogging and some innovations where we haven't
Speaker 1: had legacy incumbents really you know, take over those sectors
Speaker 1: in the past.
Speaker 4: So what are the exciting areas in the economy that
Speaker 4: you're seeing right now?
Speaker 1: So right now, the two most exciting areas that we
Speaker 1: are focused on are supply chain. So anything that's supply
Speaker 1: chain technology focused really reinventing supply chain. So even if
Speaker 1: you think through my manufacturing, so where we've historically manufactured
Speaker 1: things around the world and then ship them, can you
Speaker 1: manufacture regionally? So we don't have incumbents in manufacturing. We've
Speaker 1: never had a large manufacturing industry. It's such a small
Speaker 1: percentage GDP. But if you were to take the world's
Speaker 1: best technology today, what does that look like. It's added
Speaker 1: of manufacturing. It's three D printing. So we have companies
Speaker 1: in the region like IMENSA, which are generally just building
Speaker 1: the best in class technology globally, building the rule books
Speaker 1: globally to do spare part manufacturing using three D printing
Speaker 1: for oil and gas and other industries.
Speaker 11: And so we start thinking that what's going on.
Speaker 3: Haven't we had like talked about three D printing so
Speaker 3: many times the iterations the site.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was the whole like consumer push. I was
Speaker 4: at CEES one year where there was like this whole
Speaker 4: section of like here the you know, plastic injected three
Speaker 4: D printers that can make whatever you design, and everyone's
Speaker 4: going to have one of these and they're going to
Speaker 4: be able to repair their own stuff.
Speaker 6: We're not.
Speaker 1: There's nobility, but we are so. I mean, even if
Speaker 1: you take a look at goodness, some makeup companies, the
Speaker 1: brushes that you can use for blush, those are for
Speaker 1: a large company, us for your blush, sorry for your blush,
Speaker 1: all of our so we all look alive. But ultimately
Speaker 1: those are large three D printed, so you can take
Speaker 1: a look at you don't know that it's three D printed,
Speaker 1: but a lot of those have been three D printed.
Speaker 1: Now when you take a look at more industrial applications,
Speaker 1: so for example, the oil and gas industry has ninety
Speaker 1: billion dollars sitting in square parts, right, So these are
Speaker 1: made using raw materials, shipped across the world and then
Speaker 1: stored in a warehouse, draining working capital just in case
Speaker 1: they're needed. Twenty to thirty percent of each of that
Speaker 1: warehouse gets thrown away each year for HSU.
Speaker 11: So now you can do kind of just in time, just.
Speaker 1: In time manufacturing, not just in time inventory. So you've
Speaker 1: completely shifted that. And you said, is it cost effective?
Speaker 11: It's very cost effective.
Speaker 1: It's cheaper, especially because you're not shipping a half your
Speaker 1: cost the world. It's more sustainable, right, You're using new materials.
Speaker 1: So the reason it's really come forward to the last
Speaker 1: ten years is the material science has now allowed you
Speaker 1: to really use materials that are strong alloys, not just
Speaker 1: natural ones. So as you think through supply chains, it
Speaker 1: starts with manufacturing. Where are you making stuff? And then
Speaker 1: how are you shipping it? And how does your last
Speaker 1: miole logistics look like? Can you use drones to deliver
Speaker 1: in parts of the world? So Global South generally doesn't
Speaker 1: have as much infrastructure in terms of roads infrastructure, so
Speaker 1: why would you ever use diesel trucks that are twenty
Speaker 1: years old on rickety roads in large, large economies, larger markets.
Speaker 1: Our geography is when you could use drones.
Speaker 11: To do be to be deliveries.
Speaker 1: So you think about how do you leap frog supply chains?
Speaker 1: How do you get to a world where five years
Speaker 1: from now it's unrecognizable five years ago, and that's where
Speaker 1: we're investing.
Speaker 11: That's what we're seeing that. And then the other sector
Speaker 11: is really food.
Speaker 1: Security, So the whole world has had to push towards
Speaker 1: food security. The Mini region or the GCC both still
Speaker 1: import eighty five percent of the food. So if you
Speaker 1: think about how do we produce food, how do we
Speaker 1: move towards not just vertical farming as we've known it,
Speaker 1: but better versions of it. So we look at companies that,
Speaker 1: for example, reduce energy consumption for vertical farming or indoor
Speaker 1: farming by up to ninety percent because of the way
Speaker 1: they treat water, because of the material science to prove
Speaker 1: these farms, and now they're exporting this technology everywhere in
Speaker 1: the world. Fifteen different countries in the US are using
Speaker 1: this technology to reduce energy consumption for indoor farming so
Speaker 1: that you can have more sustainable food production. So when
Speaker 1: you think about food security, when you think about supply chain,
Speaker 1: our part of the world and MINA and then GCC
Speaker 1: is still nascent in that we don't have the legacy
Speaker 1: incumbents and that industry sorted that you're trying to improve it.
Speaker 1: You're just trying to invent it, and so with that
Speaker 1: comes a lot of this innovation, the really quick adoption
Speaker 1: that allows you to leapfrog and create these new markets
Speaker 1: with the legacy overhang to some of the legacy overhang.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm just curious that what the fund looks like
Speaker 4: right now, given that there are all these opportunities out there.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, what we've heard over the
Speaker 4: last few years is that with rates higher across the world,
Speaker 4: it's been tougher to raise money. You have four hundred
Speaker 4: million dollars that you manage, how much of that is
Speaker 4: deployed right now versus how much you know you have
Speaker 4: on the sidelines.
Speaker 1: So we're deploying out of our third fund, which is
Speaker 1: a two hundred million lower fund, and we're about a
Speaker 1: third way into deployment. Out of that fund, funds went
Speaker 1: and who are fully deployed, we're exiting them. We just
Speaker 1: had an exit two weeks ago. That's about twenty eight
Speaker 1: times money on our post seed position, eight times on
Speaker 1: our A position. So we're seeing a lot of innovation
Speaker 1: in the regions start to materialize.
Speaker 11: It's our sixth exit. For our young firm.
Speaker 1: To have that many exits behind us is a really
Speaker 1: good sign of the region's ability to materialize.
Speaker 4: Those who are the LPs, where are you getting the money?
Speaker 11: So it's half regional, half international.
Speaker 1: So we have we can't name them, but it's a
Speaker 1: lot of international LPs that are looking at the region.
Speaker 1: A lot of them it's their first time investing in
Speaker 1: the region. Family offices and institutions, any sovereign wealth funds
Speaker 1: internationally or regionally. Internationally internationally one pension fund and large
Speaker 1: financial institutions and regionally regionally both.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we were about the last first fund in the
Speaker 1: region six years ago. Until then they had invested mainly internationally.
Speaker 1: We WEREDQ nowlinates first fund in the region. So we
Speaker 1: work with all the regional sovereigns in smaller capacities. They
Speaker 1: are looking at the region to say where can we
Speaker 1: enable growth because it's for them it's not just capital,
Speaker 1: it's also economic growth.
Speaker 4: They can put their money back into their own economy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's similar to the pension funds and thennowments in
Speaker 1: the US how they enabled the venture ecosystem. In Europe,
Speaker 1: they enabled the venture ecosystem and then they're able to
Speaker 1: enable economic growth along with financial returns.
Speaker 3: What would surprise people that what's going on in the
Speaker 3: Middle East in Africa right now.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to witness in some parts of relief.
Speaker 1: So in the UAE, for example, we have a lot
Speaker 1: of second and third time international founders have come in
Speaker 1: in the last three years and building new companies there.
Speaker 1: So they had their first exit in the US maybe
Speaker 1: or in Europe, and then as they get to their
Speaker 1: second and third ideas and they want to really address
Speaker 1: the global South because that's the fastest economic growth over
Speaker 1: the next ten to twenty years. Is more the global
Speaker 1: South than the US and Europe. We have the world's
Speaker 1: youngest population. We're sixty percent under age thirty and so
Speaker 1: as you have this population starting to grow and build.
Speaker 1: This is across Mid East Africa and Southeast age is
Speaker 1: also very young, so I used to have these populations growing.
Speaker 1: The economic growth that is ahead of us is tremendous
Speaker 1: and so being able to capitalize on that. You have
Speaker 1: many second and third time founders that are moving back
Speaker 1: specifically to the UAE or moving to the UAE.
Speaker 11: They may not be from the region and building new companies.
Speaker 3: Nor what assist is the governments that you over in
Speaker 3: the Middle East providing to support those founders, whether it's
Speaker 3: as an incubator or something to kind of there is
Speaker 3: ailing and attract them back.
Speaker 1: So there are several incubators accelerators, and there's Hub seventy
Speaker 1: one and OBAD which was Mobile de La funded and founded.
Speaker 1: There's Area twenty seventy one in the UAE, which in Deviai,
Speaker 1: which is from the Duay Future Foundation. But I think
Speaker 1: the government's forward thinking this is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: So you were talking about AI earlier. We've had a
Speaker 1: Ministry of AI since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: Walk us through some of maybe your newest investments in
Speaker 3: some of the different areas you play in fintech, digital health, mobility,
Speaker 3: future of work.
Speaker 9: All of these are fascinating.
Speaker 1: Well, they're all industries that are right for disruption. We
Speaker 1: started investing in twenty eighteen, and back then our heavy
Speaker 1: focus was fintech and it was the argument of the
Speaker 1: region was still eighty five percent unbanked and you were
Speaker 1: never going to.
Speaker 3: Have really in the region.
Speaker 11: In the region.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 1: So with pockets of difference like maybe Dubai or the
Speaker 1: UAU was a bit different, but the broader four hundred
Speaker 1: million people living across me now were eighty five.
Speaker 4: Where was that concentrated though? Was that in like where
Speaker 4: geographically were I.
Speaker 1: Mean that's across Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, so just generally.
Speaker 3: So not everybody's rich royalty, right, No, that that would
Speaker 3: be very But I think there's an assumption.
Speaker 9: I know that's a stupid question, but I just think
Speaker 9: there's an.
Speaker 3: Assumption that the wealth permeates every everywhere.
Speaker 11: So I think it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, if you think Europe, you have Sweden, and
Speaker 1: then you have Greece, and then and that spread of
Speaker 1: GDP goes from thirty thousand to ninety thousand dollars across
Speaker 1: the region is similar, but even more extreme, more extream.
Speaker 1: So if you think of Syria, if you think of
Speaker 1: love and on, you're in the few thousand dollars a
Speaker 1: year gdpeper capita. And then if you think about cut lady,
Speaker 1: or in the ninety thousand dollars, and if you think
Speaker 1: about the population dispressment between those, it's not equal.
Speaker 11: Right, So you.
Speaker 1: Actually have one hundred million people in Egypt, you have
Speaker 1: forty million, not even forty million in Saudi Arabia, right,
Speaker 1: you have ten million, less than ten mine in the UAE.
Speaker 1: So you hear about the ones that are exciting and
Speaker 1: innovation and leading the way and the largest sovereignal funds
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 11: Right, But a lot of people don't live within that realm.
Speaker 1: So when we talk about unbanked at eighty five percent,
Speaker 1: you're not talking about a small pocket. You're talking about
Speaker 1: a lot of rural Saudi most of Egypt, most of Jordan.
Speaker 1: And so when we brought fintech into the ecosystem alongside
Speaker 1: the regulators and the governments in twenty eighteen, that number
Speaker 1: shrunk by about fifteen percent for five years because suddenly
Speaker 1: people went straight to fintech, right, so no one built banks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're not going to s and similarly exactly so
Speaker 1: it's a similar thing. So and then healthcare is the
Speaker 1: same way. So in healthcare, we have one doctor of
Speaker 1: per thousand people. In the US, you're about four doctors
Speaker 1: per thousand people. So if you come to the conclusion
Speaker 1: of you'll never have enough doctors, you'll never have enough hospital.
Speaker 11: So how do you use health tech to.
Speaker 1: Give primary access to care? How do you use mobile phones?
Speaker 1: We have the highest digital penetration in the world for
Speaker 1: mobile phones and social media usage, so how do you
Speaker 1: use those to enable people to have access to health care?
Speaker 1: And then you take that same thinking philosophy of how
Speaker 1: do you use technology to leapfrog and provide basic access
Speaker 1: not just to fintech and.
Speaker 11: Health tech, but also to food, to education.
Speaker 1: We have the highest percentage of population in school age
Speaker 1: in the world, so we're at thirty four percent of
Speaker 1: our population school age in Europe that's about twelve percent.
Speaker 1: So how do you provide education and it's going to
Speaker 1: be technology enabled?
Speaker 4: Where do those students go when they're done being students?
Speaker 4: So they stay in the region.
Speaker 11: A lot of them stay in the region.
Speaker 1: Well, many of them don't have second passports, so they're
Speaker 1: not going to be able to leave the region.
Speaker 11: So when you think.
Speaker 1: About it, that's why you have such an emphasis right
Speaker 1: now on entrepreneurship. So our youth unemployment is one of
Speaker 1: the highest in the world, because what is it. It
Speaker 1: ranges from twenty five to thirty five percent depending on
Speaker 1: who you askah and the country, and that's.
Speaker 9: Been a concern of the governments.
Speaker 1: Then yes, so I think that's part of how do
Speaker 1: you have these people create jobs, participate in the SME sectors,
Speaker 1: the SEME sector is ninety percent of the GDP in
Speaker 1: the region, and become productive members small many of enterprise.
Speaker 11: Yes small me to dementators.
Speaker 1: So that is the focus and then hence the entrepreneurship
Speaker 1: push and the innovation push. And over the last five
Speaker 1: years we've seen really a move from emulation so Uber
Speaker 1: for the region Kareem which then was acquired by Uber,
Speaker 1: to all the way to innovation, which is how do
Speaker 1: you sold for supply chains which we talked about earlier,
Speaker 1: how do you sold for food security and agutec and
Speaker 1: really innovate with the IP, with the research and with
Speaker 1: the ability to scale those companies globally. So in our
Speaker 1: portfolio of sixty one companies, twelve now have more revenues
Speaker 1: in Europe in the US than in the region. And
Speaker 1: when we invested, they were just in the region. And
Speaker 1: you think about that and you say that's because that's
Speaker 1: real innovation. You're thinking outside the box, or you're thinking
Speaker 1: there is no box. There are no legacy incumbents to
Speaker 1: compete with, So how do we.
Speaker 3: Solve You know, I said in teas that we were
Speaker 3: going to ask about what does it mean when a
Speaker 3: black rock moves more aggressively into the region.
Speaker 9: What does it mean when these global.
Speaker 3: Whether it's US based, European based, what have you move in,
Speaker 3: you know, to increase ties, financial ties in the region.
Speaker 11: They see opportunity.
Speaker 3: Good for you, bad for you?
Speaker 11: What does it mean great for us?
Speaker 1: It's it's really a move into the region, moving capital,
Speaker 1: finding opportunity, helping more money around.
Speaker 12: Right.
Speaker 1: So venture in the region is two point six billion
Speaker 1: dollars last year, our entire venture ecosystem.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 11: That's it.
Speaker 1: The world for Contact was a two hundred and eighty
Speaker 1: five billion, right. But where very pleased because six years
Speaker 1: ago when I started the firm, we were at four
Speaker 1: hundred million. So to move from four hundred million to
Speaker 1: two point six billion is significant. It's still a drop
Speaker 1: in the bucket. It's like doing venture in the Bay
Speaker 1: Area in the seventies, right when founders need a lot
Speaker 1: of handholding. There was real innovation, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: government support, and you're trying to move this ecoystem forward
Speaker 1: and it's still small.
Speaker 11: That's where we are.
Speaker 1: So it's really only upside from here. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of the international religio students see that move
Speaker 1: to the region, see the economic growth coming in the
Speaker 1: global South and really want to be positioned there to
Speaker 1: leverage it.
Speaker 4: Our thanks to North Swayede, founder and managing partner at
Speaker 4: the UAE based international venture capital firm Global Ventures.
Speaker 3: And that wraps up our first hour of the weekend
Speaker 3: edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 9: Ahead.
Speaker 3: In our next hour, we take a break from the
Speaker 3: heavy stuff. Don't you need this? I need it, and
Speaker 3: perhaps allfer up at the same time, some ideas for
Speaker 3: your upcoming Thanksgiving festivities.
Speaker 9: Cut to the chase.
Speaker 3: Tim, We're talking beverages from.
Speaker 4: The enslaved man who taught Jack Daniel, Yes that Jack Daniel,
Speaker 4: how to make whiskey to enjoying some cocktails in a cant.
Speaker 3: Plus for we non alcoholic types, or should I say you,
Speaker 3: Tim raising my hand, Yes, you are how one coffee
Speaker 3: chain is growing by franchising in small towns and becoming
Speaker 3: part of their communities. This is Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 4: I'm Carol and I'm Tim Steneveek. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 2: live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen
Speaker 2: on Apple car play and and Broyd Auto with a
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Plenty a head in our second hour of the weekend
Speaker 3: edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including with Thanksgiving just around
Speaker 3: the corner, maybe you are planning your menus, including your
Speaker 3: cocktail and drink offerings for friends and family, and so
Speaker 3: this hour we tap into some perfect drinks and it's
Speaker 3: not all alcohol.
Speaker 4: We talk with the CEO of Ziggy's Coffee on managing
Speaker 4: economic challenges in the specialty coffee space and how sometimes
Speaker 4: smaller is better. Plus bringing the party anywhere with cocktails
Speaker 4: in a can sounds like a plan.
Speaker 3: First up this hour, a fascinating story about the enslaved
Speaker 3: man who taught Jack Daniel, yes that Jack Daniel, how
Speaker 3: to make whiskey and later became the first African American
Speaker 3: master distill at the Jack Daniels Distillery.
Speaker 4: That story caught the attention of Fawn Weaver. Fawn's the
Speaker 4: CEO of Uncle Nearest It's the Whiskey company named after
Speaker 4: the enslaved man. She's also the author of Love and Whiskey,
Speaker 4: The remarkable true story of Jack Daniel, his master distiller,
Speaker 4: Nearest Green and the improbable rise of Uncle Nearest tell
Speaker 4: us all about Nearest Green, the namesake of your whiskey.
Speaker 4: This story goes back more than one hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 7: Absolutely.
Speaker 14: Nearest Green is the first known African American master distiller.
Speaker 14: He was the teacher and mentor of a young Jack Daniel.
Speaker 14: He later became his first master distiller, master distiller for
Speaker 14: Jack Daniel Distillery Number seven, and until nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 14: when Jack Daniel and his own family essentially had stewardship
Speaker 14: of that company, Nearest Green and his boys, George and
Speaker 14: Eli were always a part of the story. Their significance,
Speaker 14: the importance of the process that Africans brought to America.
Speaker 14: That is, taking a traditional bourbon distill it, running it
Speaker 14: through sugar maple charcoal before putting it in a barrel,
Speaker 14: which distinguishes Kentucky bourbon from Tennessee whiskey, even though both
Speaker 14: are a straight bourbon whiskey. It's what distinguishes essentially the
Speaker 14: styles that the two different states make, and that process
Speaker 14: was brought in by the Africans. Jack and his family
Speaker 14: always credited Africans for bringing that in. The enslaved people
Speaker 14: is exactly how they put it and so well. Actually,
Speaker 14: at that time they called it, They said the slaves
Speaker 14: brought it in. We now refer to them as enslaved people.
Speaker 14: But that is a story that continued until seventy eight.
Speaker 14: Then between seventy eight and seventy nine, after Jack's own
Speaker 14: family was no longer overseeing that company, the story disappeared.
Speaker 7: And it wasn't until twenty seventeen.
Speaker 14: When I introduced new research that the world really began
Speaker 14: to know what this story was, how remarkable it was,
Speaker 14: and that story is now and that research is now
Speaker 14: contained in my.
Speaker 7: Book Love and Whiskey.
Speaker 3: What else did you learn in terms of doing that progress?
Speaker 3: I think it's so important. I guess maybe the older
Speaker 3: I get, I feel like history is so much more
Speaker 3: important to me and understanding whether it's the history of
Speaker 3: our country, the history of my background, the history of
Speaker 3: just so many different aspects of our society, Understanding it
Speaker 3: so that I can hopefully have a smarter view going forward.
Speaker 3: But as you wrote your book and you did this research,
Speaker 3: tell us about some of the other things you found out.
Speaker 14: Absolutely, first, I should say what the research was, and
Speaker 14: it was not like research. I interviewed about one hundred
Speaker 14: of nears Green's descendants, Jack Daniel's descendants African American elders
Speaker 14: of Lynchburg, Tennessee, anywhere between seventy five years old and
Speaker 14: one hundred and six. Neares Green's granddaughter was still alive
Speaker 14: when I arrived in Lynchburg. Jack's eldest descendant was one
Speaker 14: old when I arrived, and she passed away at one
Speaker 14: oh four, and her faculties were fully intact, And so
Speaker 14: I had the benefit of being able to learn from
Speaker 14: so many people. And one of the things that I
Speaker 14: found that I think is so relevant to the conversations
Speaker 14: we're having in America right now is at the time
Speaker 14: when Jack Daniel was alive and he ran the distillery,
Speaker 14: and then after his descendants, they all worked side by
Speaker 14: side with either nearest nearest boys or nearest grandchildren. And
Speaker 14: one of the things I found fascinating is the percentage
Speaker 14: of African Americans in Lynchburg.
Speaker 7: Was not that great.
Speaker 14: Yet all of the African American elders tell me that
Speaker 14: worked at Jack Daniels that the workforce was about fifty
Speaker 14: percent African American. And the only way I could explain that,
Speaker 14: the only way it made sense to me, is that
Speaker 14: because Jack and his family hired based on skill set,
Speaker 14: and they paid based on tenure, not on color. They
Speaker 14: saw complete equality between the two groups of people that
Speaker 14: that just spread around this area of outside of Lynchburg, Tennessee.
Speaker 14: And you had African Americans coming in here and saying, hey,
Speaker 14: I hear y'all have jobs and we're treated fairly. And
Speaker 14: so when after prohibition, prohibition shut down the distillery here
Speaker 14: for thirty years, and after Prohibition there, I mean thousands
Speaker 14: of distilleries shuttered their doors and never reopened. But here
Speaker 14: it comes Jack Daniels roaring back with an enormous amount
Speaker 14: of power. And I have to believe it's because they
Speaker 14: were always pulling from the entire work pool that was available.
Speaker 14: And I think that that's something that we can absolutely
Speaker 14: learn from today. But also this notion that in the
Speaker 14: nineteenth century you had in the Deep South, I mean,
Speaker 14: we're right above the Alabama border, in the Deep South,
Speaker 14: you had equality between blacks and whites and the work place.
Speaker 14: That is something that we're still trying to figure out
Speaker 14: how to do now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm kind of glad you went there, because I
Speaker 3: do feel like it's kind of amazing right that we
Speaker 3: were there, and then we went backwards, and I would
Speaker 3: safe to say with some of the recent rulings, and
Speaker 3: we talk a lot about what's going on with colleges
Speaker 3: and college applications and so on and so forth, but we
Speaker 3: still talk about the lack of diversity in our world.
Speaker 3: What is it that continues to hold it back?
Speaker 14: Well, the irony is is I think that if we
Speaker 14: fix the gender problem, we'll fix the race problem. And
Speaker 14: by that I mean women are fifty percent of this population,
Speaker 14: but when you go into those boardrooms, when you go
Speaker 14: into those c suites, we are a fraction of the
Speaker 14: percentage of those that are in there. And we, by
Speaker 14: nature are more empathetic.
Speaker 7: It is how we're wired.
Speaker 14: And so I do believe that if we can fix
Speaker 14: the gender issue, that we will naturally fix the race
Speaker 14: issue because you have more women, see, and they're going
Speaker 14: to be looking around and saying, hey, why is everyone
Speaker 14: in this room?
Speaker 7: Why?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 14: Yeah, And those are things that I do believe women
Speaker 14: pay attention to. But men have run the suite sea
Speaker 14: suites for so long, and I think that that is
Speaker 14: what continues to hold us back as we need to
Speaker 14: see that fifty to fifty equality in those c suites
Speaker 14: and the rest I think will start to work itself out.
Speaker 3: I've been doing this a fair amount of time, and
Speaker 3: I feel like easily for twenty years have been talking
Speaker 3: about putting more women in the C suite, and I
Speaker 3: still count, certainly with the big publicly.
Speaker 9: Held companies, how many CEOs they are.
Speaker 3: I know, when you get into smaller business and so
Speaker 3: on and so forth, women certainly have a lot more progress.
Speaker 3: But we're still talking about this, and I'm not quite
Speaker 3: sure why it just hasn't turned yet.
Speaker 7: I wish I could answer that question.
Speaker 14: Even when you look at just education in this country,
Speaker 14: by far, it's been black women who are literally take
Speaker 14: it all, the master's degrees, the PhDs, And when you're
Speaker 14: looking at these numbers, you have to then start to wonder,
Speaker 14: why aren't there more than leading that have done so
Speaker 14: much work to get there? And I don't have that
Speaker 14: answer other than the fact that of how this country began,
Speaker 14: and we have to remember that. And I say it
Speaker 14: jokingly but not really. There are literally cognacs older than
Speaker 14: our country, and so when you put it in that context,
Speaker 14: you have to remember that children make foolish decisions. Youth
Speaker 14: make foolish decisions, and when you look at the age
Speaker 14: of our country, we're essentially adolescents compared to the rest
Speaker 14: of the world, and so we're still trying.
Speaker 7: To figure out a lot.
Speaker 14: And I just hope that we continue to have patience
Speaker 14: and grace because traveling this world, I know without question
Speaker 14: that we are the greatest nation in the world, without question,
Speaker 14: and we just have to do the work of being
Speaker 14: better ourselves.
Speaker 7: And we've come a long way.
Speaker 14: If we go back sixty years, I could have been
Speaker 14: water host literally in the middle of the street and
Speaker 14: no one been charged for it.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 14: So we are advancing right, and we do have to
Speaker 14: give ourselves grace about that. While we continue to challenge
Speaker 14: our country, we need to also honor the progress.
Speaker 3: We want to talk a little bit more about whiskey,
Speaker 3: but your own path. I mean, you wrote Happy Wives Club,
Speaker 3: One woman's worldwide Search for the Secrets of a Great Marriage.
Speaker 9: That was back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the book on whiskey that you have written,
Speaker 3: Love and Whiskey, The Remarkable True Story of Jack Daniel.
Speaker 3: You're a ted speaker, you are on the board of
Speaker 3: Endeavor Group Holdings. I'm sure I'm leaving something out there's.
Speaker 4: Another book in there, the Argument Free Marriage twenty eight
Speaker 4: days to creating the marriage you've always wanted with the
Speaker 4: spouse you already have.
Speaker 3: You're super fascinating and interesting. I am curious about on
Speaker 3: the board of Endeavor Group Holdings, and I do think
Speaker 3: about the importance of we are in the media, the
Speaker 3: importance of media, movies, entertainment in terms of pushing and
Speaker 3: helping things change, bring about change. I am curious about
Speaker 3: your role at Endeavor does how much that is a
Speaker 3: big part of the conversation, the importance of what we
Speaker 3: see up on.
Speaker 9: Screens, big screens, little screens, what we.
Speaker 3: See out there, and helping make people think differently about
Speaker 3: what society where we need to move towards.
Speaker 14: Absolutely, I've been on the board of Endeavor since prior
Speaker 14: to it going public, and I will tell you being
Speaker 14: in those boardrooms, I would put my money on our Emmanuel,
Speaker 14: Patrick Weisall and Mark Shapiro every day of the week
Speaker 14: and twice on Sunday. Their ability to understand entertainment and
Speaker 14: content is something that is.
Speaker 7: Pretty unparallel in the industry.
Speaker 14: I know a lot of the CEOs of the entertainment
Speaker 14: studios and the other agencies and things of that nature,
Speaker 14: and the way they look at bringing diversity to the forefront.
Speaker 7: They really are ahead of the curve.
Speaker 14: And how they look at that and how they're positioning that,
Speaker 14: and how they're thinking about even packaging different deals together
Speaker 14: so that we can move our country forward, but not
Speaker 14: even just our country, because our entertainment that we put
Speaker 14: out of America goes around the world. It influences how
Speaker 14: the entire world sees us. So if there's any area,
Speaker 14: any industry in that's coming out of America that is
Speaker 14: the most important for progress, it would absolutely be the
Speaker 14: entertainment industry because people mirror what they do in their
Speaker 14: countries based on what they're seeing in our entertainment.
Speaker 4: Hey, fun, I want to go back to your path
Speaker 4: and how you got to where you are today and
Speaker 4: sort of like understand how you've been able to pivot
Speaker 4: and kind of play in all these different areas because
Speaker 4: you've been doing restaurant, food and beverage, real estate, you're
Speaker 4: an author, you're on the board of Endeavor, as we mentioned,
Speaker 4: and then whiskey help us understand how you can how
Speaker 4: you know as somebody yeah, how somebody goes yeah and
Speaker 4: he's able to play in all these different places.
Speaker 14: You know, I think a lot of people box themselves
Speaker 14: in and they don't really see the overlap and so
Speaker 14: many different things. So my first company, almost thirty years ago,
Speaker 14: was a public relations and special events firm. And if
Speaker 14: you look at the way that we've built Uncle Nearest
Speaker 14: into the fastest growing bourbon and American whiskey.
Speaker 7: And US history and some of the other accolades and
Speaker 7: things of that.
Speaker 14: Nature, one of the things that you will find is
Speaker 14: is that our company has grown really going directly to
Speaker 14: the people through unearned media, through through the press.
Speaker 7: Because I can't spend one hundred million dollars like my
Speaker 7: competitors can.
Speaker 14: I can't go out there and you know, buy menu
Speaker 14: placements like they do. I just came back from London
Speaker 14: and they'll spend fifty thousand dollars to I am Menu
Speaker 14: so that they have all their different alcohols on there
Speaker 14: for a year.
Speaker 7: I can't do that.
Speaker 14: But what I can do is I can tell the
Speaker 14: story of Uncle Ners and our brands to Bloomberg and
Speaker 14: I can do that.
Speaker 7: So that's literally everything I've ever done.
Speaker 14: Any company I've ever been involved in, there has always
Speaker 14: been two through lines. One is they've been built utilizing
Speaker 14: earned media, being able to the power of storytelling. Consumers do,
Speaker 14: in fact care about stories, and quite frankly, they prefer
Speaker 14: the stories to be real, and so to dive into
Speaker 14: research that I've done for every book has been consistent.
Speaker 14: But the other thing that you'll find with the three
Speaker 14: books that I've written and the Ted Talk, I'm always
Speaker 14: talking about love and what our society has done is
Speaker 14: decided we have our work life, we have our personal life.
Speaker 14: Love exists in our personal life, but it does not
Speaker 14: exist in our work life. And that simply isn't realistic.
Speaker 14: You need to that has to carry throughout everything. You
Speaker 14: have to love your work. You have to love the
Speaker 14: people that you work around, or you're going to have
Speaker 14: a miserable existence.
Speaker 7: Twelve hours a day or however many hours do you work.
Speaker 3: Amen, Because I love my job. I love the people
Speaker 3: I work with. I know seriously, seriously, and if you know,
Speaker 3: you walk in and you're like, Okay, this is pretty
Speaker 3: cool stuff. One more minute left here. I'm going to
Speaker 3: your website. I'm looking at you've got old fashioned cocktail kits.
Speaker 3: I am a whiskey sour kind of girl. Something my
Speaker 3: dad used to make when we were growing up. Believe
Speaker 3: it or not, tell us about we're Bloomberg too. Just
Speaker 3: real quickly, last minute kind of growth that you're seeing in.
Speaker 7: Your business, Oh, Uncle Ners, it's phenomenal.
Speaker 14: The industry and this is a whole other conversation, but
Speaker 14: the industry is down.
Speaker 7: Overall double digits.
Speaker 14: The on premise, which is bars and restaurants, are down
Speaker 14: eight point eight percent.
Speaker 7: Uncle Nerross is up fifty five percent. And I believe
Speaker 7: that that has a.
Speaker 14: Lot to do with the fact that people are realizing, boy,
Speaker 14: Uncle Nerors tastes really good old fashion. It's really good
Speaker 14: in a whiskey sour, it's really good in the peniculin.
Speaker 14: And so the restaurants and the bars are the ones
Speaker 14: that are really driving the growth of Uncle Nearest. And
Speaker 14: it's both the story and the fact that we're the
Speaker 14: most awarded bourbon five years running.
Speaker 4: Our thanks to Von Weaver, CEO of Uncle Nearest and
Speaker 4: author of the book Love and Whiskey, The remarkable true
Speaker 4: story of Jack Daniel, his master disciller, Nearest Green and
Speaker 4: the Improbable Rise of Uncle Nearest.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek coming up from college dropouts
Speaker 3: to co founders of a growing coffee chain now in
Speaker 3: its twentieth year of existence. We talk with one half
Speaker 3: of the husband and wife duo behind Ziggy's Coffee and
Speaker 3: how engaging with small communities has led to their success.
Speaker 3: To me, like your coffee, don't you?
Speaker 4: I love coffee, don't leave home without You're.
Speaker 3: Kind of a connoisseur of coffee.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been known to pull a shot of espresso
Speaker 4: or two in my life. Yes, Indeed, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live
Speaker 2: each weekday. He's starting a two pece Eastern on applecar
Speaker 2: Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Ad. You
Speaker 2: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
Speaker 2: New York station, Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven.
Speaker 3: Thirty twenty years ago, the first Ciggy's Coffee opened up
Speaker 3: in Longmont, Colorado, just northeast of Boulder. The idea behind
Speaker 3: it from the husband and wife team was, in the
Speaker 3: words of the company, to create a space where people
Speaker 3: could gather and feel right at home.
Speaker 4: Fast forward to today, Ziggie's has recently opened its one
Speaker 4: hundred location. The vast majority of these stores are franchised.
Speaker 4: They're in eighteen states and counting. The company sold more
Speaker 4: than eleven million drinks, and the founders have done it
Speaker 4: all by bootstrapping the business. For more on what led
Speaker 4: to the company's success, we spoke to the CEO and
Speaker 4: co founder of Ziggi's Coffee, Brandon Knudsen.
Speaker 15: Yeah, it really goes back to college. My wife and
Speaker 15: I were kind of lost in school and she got
Speaker 15: a job at a little drive through coffee shop, and
Speaker 15: I had the great idea that, you know, hey, let's
Speaker 15: just drop out of school and you know, we could
Speaker 15: do this.
Speaker 13: How hard you it be?
Speaker 15: And I did convince her. Her parents didn't love that,
Speaker 15: but I did convince her to drop We're doing drop
Speaker 15: out of school and pursue our dream of open and
Speaker 15: drive through coffee shop.
Speaker 4: But it is hard, and like we're you know, you
Speaker 4: kind of run into like whatever the psychological phenomenon is
Speaker 4: when you're to only talking to people who've done it
Speaker 4: successfully that you know, it sounds like it's easier than
Speaker 4: it is. But there are a lot of people like
Speaker 4: you who aren't still doing this because what they did
Speaker 4: did not succeed. What made it work for Ziggies.
Speaker 15: When we opened our first it was actually called Gizzies
Speaker 15: at first. I quit my job and we're living out
Speaker 15: of the tip jar, living out of the you know,
Speaker 15: whatever little money we could make, and we're just a
Speaker 15: position where, no matter how hard it get, we didn't
Speaker 15: have a choice, and so we fought through it and
Speaker 15: listen to customers and just grinded away.
Speaker 3: But it's interesting, right, Like I think, I certainly in
Speaker 3: New York there's a million places you can go get coffee,
Speaker 3: well known big chains, No Ziggies, not yet, smaller places.
Speaker 3: I tend to like kind of local places, small coffee shops,
Speaker 3: but there's so more of a third wave coffee person.
Speaker 3: I am a more of a third wave or make
Speaker 3: it at home because there's so many great devices.
Speaker 9: How in two decades has the market.
Speaker 15: Changed well, I mean drive through is huge now and
Speaker 15: you know, you know, give a lot of credit to
Speaker 15: Dutch Bros. They really put drive through coffee on the map.
Speaker 15: I know Starbucks has done a great job as that
Speaker 15: with that as well. You know, I think it's become
Speaker 15: you know, if you look at the product makes it.
Speaker 15: You know, I think we first started, we were probably
Speaker 15: eighty percent hot coffee and twenty percent cold and it's switched.
Speaker 15: It's like seventy cold between energy drinking smooth.
Speaker 6: That's what Starbucks is too.
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, it's it's just what people are looking for.
Speaker 15: It's very interesting.
Speaker 12: You know.
Speaker 4: It's funny that you're the drive through is so big
Speaker 4: for you because when you started this company, it wasn't
Speaker 4: about drive through. It was about creating a space, similar
Speaker 4: to what Howard Schultz has talked about when he expanded
Speaker 4: Starbucks into the so called third place. Have you been
Speaker 4: able to kind of keep to the core of creating
Speaker 4: the space for people to gather and hang out even
Speaker 4: with drive through.
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's one of those unanswered prayers. We
Speaker 15: wanted a drive through. We did not want to do
Speaker 15: a cafe. We just couldn't afford it. We were broke
Speaker 15: college dropouts, moving to a new state where just knew
Speaker 15: my sister, and so the only thing we could really
Speaker 15: afford to do was we got really lucky and got
Speaker 15: this brick and mortar place in downtown Longmont. What we
Speaker 15: learned there was, you know, we're really in the service business,
Speaker 15: and no matter I joke. I made horrible coffee back then,
Speaker 15: but I had great relationship with customers. So we learned
Speaker 15: that first and then translated that into the drive throughs.
Speaker 9: Were there moments?
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like whenever we talked to an entrepreneur,
Speaker 3: even super successful ones like yourself, you know, are those
Speaker 3: who are now co founders and heads of you know,
Speaker 3: publicly held companies or used to be, there's always a
Speaker 3: moment where you're like, I'm not sure we're going to
Speaker 3: make it. I am curious how many times you felt
Speaker 3: that way?
Speaker 13: For twelve years? Probably ten years?
Speaker 6: Wow?
Speaker 15: And the thing with us is every time, you know,
Speaker 15: every time we made it. If you got our first
Speaker 15: store really running and making some money, then I begged
Speaker 15: my wife to do a second one, and then we
Speaker 15: went back to, oh my gosh, what did we do
Speaker 15: when we're gonna make it? And then we got there
Speaker 15: and we open a third and it's it's kind of
Speaker 15: it's been an ongoing battle for sure.
Speaker 4: So talk a little bit about growth, because Carolin, I
Speaker 4: do talk to a lot of folks who are in
Speaker 4: the franchise business, and you know, the idea that it's
Speaker 4: really asset light is I think appealing to a lot
Speaker 4: of folks because they are able to grow without actually
Speaker 4: taking on that risk, they can offload that risk.
Speaker 3: I think it's an interesting business model. I mean, how
Speaker 3: does that make it so much easier for you guys
Speaker 3: to grow without the risk. But you've also got to
Speaker 3: make sure the brand doesn't get tarnished.
Speaker 13: Yeah, exactly. I mean it comes down to training.
Speaker 15: We have a team of over fifty people here for
Speaker 15: you know, ninety seven locations, because it's all about support
Speaker 15: and I think of every store as our store from
Speaker 15: the standpoint of not wanting to fail and from a
Speaker 15: risk standpoint, we were very close with all of our
Speaker 15: franchise ease. So again, yes, it's it's capital, it's it's
Speaker 15: a lot easier on the balance sheet, but we still
Speaker 15: fill the burden and we take restore seriously as if
Speaker 15: it were our home.
Speaker 3: Brandon, how do you decide where you grow and how
Speaker 3: you grow the rate with which you grow? Like, you know,
Speaker 3: we want to ask you a little bit about Starbucks
Speaker 3: do and kind of where they are. It feels like
Speaker 3: they're always the one everybody is measured against. But having
Speaker 3: said that, it felt like it got to a point
Speaker 3: where there's one on every corner and how could it
Speaker 3: not be eating into the business of one or the other.
Speaker 3: So how do you guys proceed with growth in a
Speaker 3: smart and thoughtful way that really pays off in the
Speaker 3: bottom and top lines.
Speaker 15: Well, there's two areas that we have success, and the
Speaker 15: first one is people. We need to find great franchise ease,
Speaker 15: great operators. At the end of the day, we're in
Speaker 15: the service business and employees look up to their owners
Speaker 15: and they need to respect them, like them, and that's
Speaker 15: when they'll do a really, really good job is when
Speaker 15: they really care about the owners. And so the people
Speaker 15: are We're not like targeting, you know, a certain wave
Speaker 15: across the country. We don't care if we're in Maine
Speaker 15: or if we're in southern California. But have a great operator,
Speaker 15: we feel really good. The next piece is like we
Speaker 15: love bids, small markets fifteen thousand, twenty thousand person, towns
Speaker 15: fifty thousand, getting over. We love those smart small markets.
Speaker 4: Like meaed where you're joining us from.
Speaker 15: Yeah, we have thirty five hundred people and this is
Speaker 15: one of the best stores in the company. We're plugged
Speaker 15: in the community. We have community events, we sponsor high
Speaker 15: school things. My kids go to high school and middle
Speaker 15: school and elementary school here and so people just buy in.
Speaker 13: We are the coffee shop.
Speaker 4: How much capital does somebody need to start at ziggies?
Speaker 15: It's a it's a wide range, we say, you know,
Speaker 15: on the lower end, maybe one hundred, one hundred and
Speaker 15: fifty thousand on cash if you're going to buy land
Speaker 15: and build and develop, three fifty four hundred thousand if
Speaker 15: you're going to buy the land with down payment and
Speaker 15: those sort of things.
Speaker 3: How quickly does that initial investment get paid off?
Speaker 9: How quickly is the return?
Speaker 15: It depends on what year we're talking about. Now, you know,
Speaker 15: interest rates, it's such a wide variety for folks, it'd
Speaker 15: be hard to even tell you what that is.
Speaker 3: It's okay, so it's obviously been harder in a higher
Speaker 3: rate environment.
Speaker 8: Correct, Oh, it's tough.
Speaker 15: I mean, you know, between interest rates and labor and
Speaker 15: goods and those sort of things. It's it's it's always
Speaker 15: moving and we're just just trying to adjust as it goes.
Speaker 4: What about franchise fees that get paid to you, I
Speaker 4: mean that's how you guys end up making the money.
Speaker 4: How do those how do those sort of tabulate?
Speaker 15: Yeah, so franchise fees are really the upfront fees to
Speaker 15: buy the rights of the license, and that money gets
Speaker 15: used to open stores and train with big believers in
Speaker 15: heavy training. We send a team of six people out
Speaker 15: for at least two weeks to open stores wherever they are,
Speaker 15: because it's really importantly open, open, really strong. Where the
Speaker 15: money is made on our end, where the revenue comes
Speaker 15: in to support our team that supports our franchisees is
Speaker 15: the royalty of six percent on the kind of adjusted growth.
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's go to You know, we mentioned Starbucks before,
Speaker 3: and it's certainly a story that has been front and
Speaker 3: center for us as it's getting a new CEO, very
Speaker 3: well known in.
Speaker 9: The fast casual space, well known to you too. Yeah,
Speaker 9: Brian Nicol.
Speaker 4: You've known him for years.
Speaker 9: We've you know, known him for a while.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've interviewed him a lot.
Speaker 3: You and I have also both talked to him and yeah,
Speaker 3: and followed him because he came in, you know, just
Speaker 3: as the pandemic was getting underway, a tough time with
Speaker 3: a well known chain that was you know, certainly had
Speaker 3: its issues and really got deep into digital in terms
Speaker 3: of automating some things at the chain. Starbucks fighting off
Speaker 3: sloping demand. You know, customers are having to make choices,
Speaker 3: and I wonder what you think about price point. They're
Speaker 3: also dealing with some concerns in the Chinese market. They're
Speaker 3: looking to you know, cut weight times. They've got activist investors.
Speaker 3: There's a lot going on. What do you make of
Speaker 3: starbucks woes? How do you think about where they are?
Speaker 3: And I understand you operate in a very different space,
Speaker 3: but I'm just curious what you watch in terms of
Speaker 3: their woes.
Speaker 15: I mean, it's crazy to, you know, put ourselves up
Speaker 15: next to Starbucks, and they are.
Speaker 13: They are the reason that we're all in this business.
Speaker 15: They educated to the consumer and we all should be
Speaker 15: saying thank you, and so I will never ever speak
Speaker 15: poorly on them. I think a little bit's just a
Speaker 15: little bit of tiredness of the brand. I mean, I
Speaker 15: think people are excited about new brands. Like I said,
Speaker 15: Rose and Siggies, it's new. I think the comparisons with
Speaker 15: f of them we have. We have a big food menu,
Speaker 15: our food mixes twenty five percent, and which makes this
Speaker 15: different than a lot of other brands.
Speaker 13: I just think that it's hard to stay on top.
Speaker 15: I think everyone's trying to knock you down, and I
Speaker 15: think they'll figure it out. They always seem to. You know,
Speaker 15: we try to stay out of all the things that
Speaker 15: are polarizing. We just focus on giving great, authentic service
Speaker 15: to our customers. And I could see them going back
Speaker 15: to that, but honestly, we're head down focus on our
Speaker 15: franchise ease, just trying to help them be successful and
Speaker 15: what's you know, it's a tough market out there. We
Speaker 15: want to really spend our time just focusing on our customers.
Speaker 4: What do you find when it comes to loyalty, Brandon
Speaker 4: that like, when people find out about the shop, do
Speaker 4: they come back? How do you have loyalty programs that
Speaker 4: track that?
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, we have a loyalty are We're we're in
Speaker 15: the mid to high fifty percent as far as our
Speaker 15: in our app usage, So those are our loyal members.
Speaker 15: You know, right now people are not frequent in stores
Speaker 15: as much and that's definitely our goal.
Speaker 13: But it's all all about regulars for us.
Speaker 4: What about like app ordering and stuff.
Speaker 15: Yeah, we do some app order and it's it's not
Speaker 15: a ton it's single digits order ahead. We're working on that.
Speaker 15: We just released our new app about a year ago
Speaker 15: and working through some kings there but it's definitely a
Speaker 15: big part of it.
Speaker 3: So what's next for you guys? And I am curious?
Speaker 3: You say, you know, it's fun to kind of put
Speaker 3: yourself in the league of Starbucks. Having said that, is
Speaker 3: there a growth that you want to stay at or
Speaker 3: size that you want to stay at? Do you think
Speaker 3: about going public? Like, what's what's the future?
Speaker 15: I couldn't think of anything worse than going public for
Speaker 15: me personally, it just looks like it does look like
Speaker 15: a whole lot of fun to me. You know, we're
Speaker 15: going to open I mean, we'd love it. We're targeting
Speaker 15: forty five fifty stores a year. We're going to let
Speaker 15: the franchise de dictate that if we can find awesome
Speaker 15: people to open one hundred stores a year, will do that.
Speaker 15: But you can't force it. And that's what's great about
Speaker 15: not being public. We can grow at a pace that
Speaker 15: makes sense for us and it makes sense for franchisees
Speaker 15: and make sure we're putting them in positions to be successful.
Speaker 4: Well, it doesn't necessarily you don't necessarily have the pressure
Speaker 4: on you to go public or have an exit because
Speaker 4: you haven't accepted any outside financing, right correct, No, our goal.
Speaker 15: Is to just help every franchise you make as much
Speaker 15: money as possible right now, and there's no pressures outside
Speaker 15: of that.
Speaker 4: So profitable I assume you are given that you haven't
Speaker 4: had to take on any venture fundraising or private equity funds.
Speaker 15: Yeah, yes, it's we've really invested in our team and
Speaker 15: so that's been the biggest challenge for us as a
Speaker 15: company is you know, we have fifty people for our headcounts,
Speaker 15: over fifty for ninety seven stores.
Speaker 13: It's a big number, but we really believe.
Speaker 15: Especially right now with how tough it is out there,
Speaker 15: that we need to provide a ton of support and
Speaker 15: a ton of train and information, and we need to
Speaker 15: be relevant with ltos and there are sort of things,
Speaker 15: which is why we have just an amazing creative team
Speaker 15: and operations team here which does cut into that. But
Speaker 15: we're looking down the line.
Speaker 4: That was Brandon Nudsen, CEO and co founder of Ziggi's Coffee.
Speaker 3: Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week. Nothing like wrapping up
Speaker 3: the week with a ready to drink cocktail?
Speaker 4: Are you in non alcoholical?
Speaker 2: Dude?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? You don't want me having
Speaker 4: a drinking getting on air?
Speaker 3: I don't know some days I do fair.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 2: Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter, Listen
Speaker 2: on Apple car Play and then brout Auto with a
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business act or want us Live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: As a former colleague of ours used to say, it's
Speaker 3: five o'clock summer, doesn't Jimmy Buffett didn't. He used to
Speaker 3: say that all the time.
Speaker 11: To you, a lot of people do.
Speaker 3: One of the trends we are increasingly seeing from startups
Speaker 3: and the establishment alike is pre mad cocktails, easy to.
Speaker 9: Buy, no shaking nor stirring necessary.
Speaker 4: And that brings us to the family owned Jeloso Group
Speaker 4: of Companies, whose parent company was founded nearly six decades
Speaker 4: ago in Montreal, Canada and now produces over one hundred
Speaker 4: alcoholic beverage products in the US and Canada with over
Speaker 4: three hundred and fifty employees and seven warehouses.
Speaker 3: Although Jeloso runs the second generation of the family owned
Speaker 3: Jelosa Group of Companies, which in clues Jealosa Beverage Group USA.
Speaker 3: He sat down in studio joining Bloomberg's Matt Miller and
Speaker 3: me taking us back to how it all began.
Speaker 8: We're a family owned business. Immigrant parents immigrated in nineteen
Speaker 8: fifty seven, came here for a better life. We're from
Speaker 8: the south of Italy, and basically my father ventured into
Speaker 8: important grapes from California because in Canada you have liquor boards,
Speaker 8: and my father realized that in Quebec you only drink beer,
Speaker 8: and he said, we don't drink beer as Italian. So
Speaker 8: basically there was no wines to be had, and the
Speaker 8: wines that were available were very expensive. And being a farmer,
Speaker 8: he said, you know what, let me bring in grapes
Speaker 8: for the immigrant community. And then that's the story.
Speaker 16: So he brought in grapes to make your own wine
Speaker 16: in Quebec for immigrants exactly so, because you know, we're
Speaker 16: a legislative state, so there's a lot of taxation.
Speaker 8: It's not free market like it is here in the US.
Speaker 8: So that's how we start. And basically from there it
Speaker 8: went on and when people started hearing about my father
Speaker 8: making wine, he was never really making wine. He was
Speaker 8: crushing grapes and the must people would be bringing it
Speaker 8: home to ferment it. And the local authorities got wind
Speaker 8: of this and said hey, this man is bootlegging. He's
Speaker 8: actually making wine. We're in control of the wine industry
Speaker 8: in Quebec, and they sequestered all the liquids that were
Speaker 8: in my father's warehouse and the liquids were then juice.
Speaker 8: Then six months later, my father's lawyer contacts him, says,
Speaker 8: by the way, mister Jeloso, you know what, you're going
Speaker 8: to be charged with bootlegging. He goes, what it? You
Speaker 8: know what? They did a test and it's wine, He goes,
Speaker 8: But naturally it's going to ferment, it will turn into wine.
Speaker 8: So basically, my father brought in an anologist from Europe
Speaker 8: and my father won the case. And the lawyer asked
Speaker 8: my father, listen, now's the time to sue the government.
Speaker 8: My father said, I came here as an immigrant for
Speaker 8: a better life. I want them to give me a
Speaker 8: wine permit. That's why our family has the first wine
Speaker 8: permit in Quebec. Zero zero role.
Speaker 16: What a story.
Speaker 3: So tell us about what you got, what it's grown in.
Speaker 16: You've turned this into a company that does do you
Speaker 16: deal with beer now as well?
Speaker 8: We deal with beer, we deal with cider, we deal
Speaker 8: with spirits. We represent Bacardi, we represent Boston Beer in Quebec.
Speaker 8: Basically we are a one stop shop.
Speaker 16: And this is like one of the hottest growing areas
Speaker 16: of the alcoholic beverage segment, right, I mean everything from
Speaker 16: the from the lowest level too. I mean there's really
Speaker 16: uppity mixed cock te pre mixed cocktails that you can
Speaker 16: order at a restaurant.
Speaker 8: What you have to realize is that whenever you're drinking
Speaker 8: a cocktail at a restaurant, you'll never You'll never find
Speaker 8: unisons and taste. Somebody will add one more ounce of cognac,
Speaker 8: one more ounce of vodka. So what we venture out
Speaker 8: was basically creating a malt. Why malt, because malt gives
Speaker 8: us access to people, to markets, whereby spirits you're limited
Speaker 8: in general. So we actually patented the process whereby we
Speaker 8: clean the malt and we add the proper salts, the
Speaker 8: proper sugar levels, so that at the end of the
Speaker 8: day you can receive the natural flavors of whatever cocktail
Speaker 8: you want to build on. And what you have here
Speaker 8: cocktails being the first original cocktail and Sonny Margarita is
Speaker 8: the number one selling cocktail in the ussev Wow, it
Speaker 8: beats up every every other cocktail and this from Quebec.
Speaker 3: Could you believe that it's pretty cool stuff. It's a
Speaker 3: crowded market though increasingly. How do you get yourself noticed
Speaker 3: or how do you think about that? Because it feels
Speaker 3: like we talk to a lot of folks in the
Speaker 3: beverage in the alcohol space, and I just feel like
Speaker 3: there's a lot of startups, there's a lot of the
Speaker 3: establishment that are coming out with different brands. So how
Speaker 3: do you distinguish yourself or get noticed.
Speaker 8: You need agility, you need flexibility. You have to address
Speaker 8: not what the consumer wants, what you believe they want.
Speaker 8: One of the things that we pride ourselves is having
Speaker 8: the proper contacts with distributors because, like you said, Carol,
Speaker 8: there are so many people out there wanting to load
Speaker 8: up the warehouses of all these distributors, whereby, at the
Speaker 8: end of the day, you saw it in the craft
Speaker 8: beer business, whereby everybody got on board and everybody got
Speaker 8: stinged by it because the craft beer business somehow sued.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 8: So what we've done is we provide proper quantities, We
Speaker 8: provide constant updates and flavor profiles. But at the same
Speaker 8: time we are authentic in terms of flavor. There is
Speaker 8: no natural there is no unnatural ingredients. And what we
Speaker 8: do is, okay, that's the sunny margarita. You're gonna enjoy it.
Speaker 3: It sounds like a beer, guys, it's not.
Speaker 8: It's not a beer like you know what. At the beginning,
Speaker 8: everybody used to tell me. By the way, it's molled,
Speaker 8: I go tell me something. You like Scotch's malt. So
Speaker 8: you have to get the people to understand that it's
Speaker 8: only the alcohol stream that gives you access to a network.
Speaker 8: So it tastes exactly like spirits because we redesigned it
Speaker 8: as spirits.
Speaker 16: All right, Carol is taking a sip. Now you've poured it.
Speaker 3: Into margarita, and it's nice.
Speaker 8: It has a hint of salt, and I'm.
Speaker 9: Picky about margarita's.
Speaker 16: It does have a hint of salt. That's an important part.
Speaker 16: So I haven't had a drink.
Speaker 9: I'm not going to put it near you.
Speaker 12: I haven't had a.
Speaker 16: Drink in two years, but I did drink alcohol. I
Speaker 16: loved the salt in the Martin margarita.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 8: What does this cost into retail? Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 3: I have no idea you have to go to your website.
Speaker 8: It's like it's like I would say a thing about sorry,
Speaker 8: I mean to do that's a twenty two ounce can.
Speaker 16: So it's like a tall boy, right.
Speaker 3: What do you think because I think about when you
Speaker 3: go to a bar, right, like a margarita is.
Speaker 16: Like ten twelve dollars and tea. Yeah, depending on do
Speaker 16: you make an alcohol free version or do you make
Speaker 16: alcohol free cocktails as well?
Speaker 8: We are the biggest producers of non alcoholic beverages. We
Speaker 8: started in nineteen eighty nine with wine coolers and what
Speaker 8: and what you have to realize we have we have
Speaker 8: brands that are non alcoholic because the demographics, the population, age, aging,
Speaker 8: better lifestyle. I say between now and twenty fifty fifty
Speaker 8: percent of the people won't be drinking alcohol.
Speaker 3: Although I do wonder you know, Map brought up a
Speaker 3: great point about how a lot of people don't want
Speaker 3: any alcohol anymore.
Speaker 9: There's that trend.
Speaker 3: There's also a wellness healthier trend, no sugars, that kind
Speaker 3: of thing that's a real concern for a lot of
Speaker 3: individuals called bucha. How are you thinking about that in
Speaker 3: terms of how you guys do things well and are
Speaker 3: you seeing that in adaptay as?
Speaker 8: I mean you see you when you see plays like
Speaker 8: moltsen Cores change their name to the Molten Cores Beverage Company,
Speaker 8: They're starting to realize they have to walk away from
Speaker 8: beers of certain staple items. So you have non alcoholic
Speaker 8: was always considered zero point five because of the changing demographics.
Speaker 8: Now everybody's focusing on zero point zero because we have
Speaker 8: to attend certain other demographics or religious beliefs going forward
Speaker 8: because the population is changing. And the wellness, I mean,
Speaker 8: there's hydration, there's longevity. You have to address it today
Speaker 8: and how we do it. Also, A non alcoholic and
Speaker 8: non acoholic is that we started in the eighties for
Speaker 8: the simple reason that we knew that people need an
Speaker 8: alternative and children. To make sure that children don't drink,
Speaker 8: they have to have products that are non alcoholic with
Speaker 8: a name that is alcoholic. So it takes that stigma
Speaker 8: away from them and that pressure because pure pressure is
Speaker 8: very strong. So we have nono, non alcoholic champagnes, non
Speaker 8: alcoholic cocktails and yeah, when you look at that, we
Speaker 8: offer that that range across the board.
Speaker 3: Have you seen a lot of growth in that area?
Speaker 8: So much, and especially when you see big players themselves
Speaker 8: like Heineken, Budweis or and everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what about for something like this where I think,
Speaker 3: I mean, I've actually you know, been either on a
Speaker 3: vacation or I sail and like there's not a lot
Speaker 3: of we don't keep a lot of stuff on them,
Speaker 3: you know. There and I've picked up these pre made
Speaker 3: cocktails and there it's really nice and convenient. So I
Speaker 3: am curious, what kind of growth are you seeing in
Speaker 3: this area.
Speaker 8: Well, we have grown double digit ready to drink Yeah,
Speaker 8: last six years. Every month we control the category in
Speaker 8: terms of margarita. We're the third largest in America and
Speaker 8: we still do Our runway is still is still there
Speaker 8: because you know, it's like at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: we're fighting big boys, And like Matt was saying, what
Speaker 8: makes us pertinent is the fact that we keep our
Speaker 8: ear with the distributor. We may, we attend to their
Speaker 8: needs in terms of inventory levels, and at the end
Speaker 8: of the day, people only come back for only one
Speaker 8: simple reason puffability. It has to taste good. People will
Speaker 8: adopt it once, but they have to I've had some.
Speaker 3: Non alcoholic stuff and I have to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: I didn't like it.
Speaker 16: That's probably beer, right, non alcoholic beer and wine is
Speaker 16: no bueno, right. But you can easily make a non
Speaker 16: alcoholic Sex on the beach, you know, because these cocktails.
Speaker 16: I'm looking through what you got, Carol's drinking the margarita,
Speaker 16: you got the screwdriver. Obviously you've got Alabama Slammer, Sex
Speaker 16: on the Beach. Yes, Sex on the Beach, a long
Speaker 16: islandized tea. Most of these cocktails were mixed originally so
Speaker 16: that you couldn't taste the alcohol in them, and I
Speaker 16: imagine that makes it easy to make non alcoholic, non
Speaker 16: alcoholic versions. How important is your distributor relationship. You must
Speaker 16: get all your intel that way.
Speaker 8: Our intel comes from the fact that we know the industry.
Speaker 8: Our distributor is our segue to the market. They have
Speaker 8: to believe in us. So our intel comes from the
Speaker 8: fact that we develop quaffable products and that are pure
Speaker 8: and taste and have no sugars in them. The only
Speaker 8: sugars are basically the alcohol itself, that is naturally sugar.
Speaker 4: That's although Jeloso of the family owned Geloso Group of companies,
Speaker 4: which includes Jeloso Beverage Group Usa, along with Bloomberg's Matt Meller, who.
Speaker 3: Like you, is also into non alcoholic beverages. Yeah, been
Speaker 3: like sober for or not Soper. I shouldn't say that,
Speaker 3: but that's staining. You can say that was my word,
Speaker 3: not Mads. He's just been you know, he's been on
Speaker 3: a healthier kind of kick. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, he's like one of many right now, I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 9: I think a lot of people are rethinking this.
Speaker 3: Also. It's interesting to see research coming out rethinking you know,
Speaker 3: a glass of wine or alcohol, you know the impact
Speaker 3: it can have on your health longer term.
Speaker 4: I think for Matt and me, I don't want to
Speaker 4: speak for him, but he's got young kids too, Like
Speaker 4: you know, Saturday morning, Sunday morning, you want to be
Speaker 4: there to chase them around j J and love me.
Speaker 9: They come over and they open up your eyes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 12: All right.
Speaker 3: That wraps up our weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 3: from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4: Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through
Speaker 4: Friday starting at two pm Wall Street Time, on Bloomberg TV,
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Speaker 4: Find our Bloomberg BusinessWeek podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple,
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Speaker 4: dot com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.
Speaker 3: I'm Tim Standeveek and I'm Carol Masser. Have a good
Speaker 3: and safe weekend everyone.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast.
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