Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of
Speaker 1: this series where I interview fascinating people about how they
Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and any advice
Speaker 1: they have for the rest of us. So today I
Speaker 1: am delighted to welcome Alexandra Lovitt to Before Breakfast. Alexandra
Speaker 1: is the founder and CEO of Inspiration at Work, which
Speaker 1: is a futurist consulting business. She is also a speaker
Speaker 1: and the author of They Don't Teach Corporate in College
Speaker 1: and the new book Make School Work. So Alexandra, welcome
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks Laura. So good to be back and chatting with
Speaker 2: you after a little bit of time has passed. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so good to reconnect with people. I'm loving
Speaker 1: that I'm getting to share these conversations with everyone. Why
Speaker 1: don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2: Well, these days, I am a fashioned workforce futurist and
Speaker 2: what this essentially means is that I work with organizations
Speaker 2: and governments to ascertain what has the greatest potential for
Speaker 2: disruption in the world of work and then devise scenarios
Speaker 2: and plans for getting through those disruptions in the most
Speaker 2: productive way possible. And how I became connected with the
Speaker 2: future of education was through an organization called GPS Education Partners,
Speaker 2: and they are shaping the world of work through training
Speaker 2: students at a younger age to participate meaningfully in the
Speaker 2: workforce through work based learning experiences. And you and I
Speaker 2: we've probably talked about this before, but since I've gotten
Speaker 2: into this field about twenty five years ago, there's been
Speaker 2: a pretty persistent problem that has just kept me up
Speaker 2: at night, niggled in my brain. And that's that there
Speaker 2: is this gap between the jobs that are available for
Speaker 2: people to take and the talent that is wanting to
Speaker 2: take those jobs. And so throughout the course of my career,
Speaker 2: I've been on the hunt for a solution that would
Speaker 2: pair effectively talent that is available for work with the
Speaker 2: jobs that organizations need to fill. And so by pipelining
Speaker 2: students at a younger age into a specific career, or
Speaker 2: at least giving them good exposure to it, I think
Speaker 2: we start to mitigate the problem of not having the
Speaker 2: right people for the right positions.
Speaker 1: Well, what are we doing wrong with education that leads
Speaker 1: to this mismatch, this gap.
Speaker 2: Well, Laura goes all the way back to my first book,
Speaker 2: which I know we talked about a long time ago.
Speaker 2: They don't teach corporate in college, and that more or
Speaker 2: less sums up at least part of the problem, which
Speaker 2: is that the mandates of education don't really match up
Speaker 2: to what students need to know in the real world.
Speaker 2: And this has only become in the last twenty five
Speaker 2: years more relevant because things are changing faster. So when
Speaker 2: you think about an established curriculum in high school or college,
Speaker 2: it is static for a long period of time, and
Speaker 2: often by the time a student gets out of a
Speaker 2: degree program, whether it's a secondary degree or a post
Speaker 2: secondary degree, that material has become obsolete or at the
Speaker 2: very least needs to be substantially updated or assimilated into
Speaker 2: the reality of business today. So I think what we've
Speaker 2: been still doing is relying on education, the traditional model
Speaker 2: of education, to adequately prepare young people for the workforce.
Speaker 2: And by the way, this is any workforce. It's not
Speaker 2: just a traditional white collar workforce, or it's any kind
Speaker 2: of job. Students don't have an intuitive, natural sense of
Speaker 2: how those work because they've never had the experience before.
Speaker 2: So we are not providing students with enough concrete operation
Speaker 2: ttunities to experience the work world, to experience the different
Speaker 2: career paths that they might be interested in, both to
Speaker 2: determine what they do like and also what they don't like.
Speaker 2: That's just as much of a valuable experience too, because
Speaker 2: if you, for example, are interested in engineering, you might,
Speaker 2: as a high school student, have absolutely no idea what
Speaker 2: that means in practicality. And if you don't have an
Speaker 2: experience like work based learning, you may go to a
Speaker 2: four year college and you may get a degree in engineering,
Speaker 2: and you may realize that somewhere down the line, either
Speaker 2: in an internship or a post graduation work situation, that
Speaker 2: it's nothing like what you expected, you don't like it
Speaker 2: at all, And then you've just spent four years of
Speaker 2: a very expensive education to not do something that has
Speaker 2: anything to do with that degree. So I view it
Speaker 2: as something that needs to be at least investigated at
Speaker 2: an early your stage in a student's development.
Speaker 1: So what would that look like, I mean, is like
Speaker 1: more internships, more stuff that like courses that look like work.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm very curious what it would what it
Speaker 1: would look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is this is a great question,
Speaker 2: and I think we can look to other countries as
Speaker 2: an example. Here in the US we are not as
Speaker 2: good at things like apprenticeships as many organizations who are
Speaker 2: European based, for example, and many governments they've got really
Speaker 2: much more robust public and private sector partnerships over there,
Speaker 2: where it's expected almost that you do some kind of
Speaker 2: work based learning in at the high school level and
Speaker 2: sometimes even earlier. So what we are trying to and
Speaker 2: I say we it's it's not really me, it's organizations
Speaker 2: like GPS Education Partners, who I worked with on this book.
Speaker 2: What we are trying to do is establish a six
Speaker 2: part framework for if you are interested in launching a
Speaker 2: work based learning program, which is basically what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: It's learning by working in a real world situation such
Speaker 2: as on a factory floor, and to be able to
Speaker 2: work with other stakeholders and other constituents in your immediate purview.
Speaker 2: And obviously this is going to vary depending on where
Speaker 2: you are or what your role is. So let's say
Speaker 2: you are an employer who wants to stay in a
Speaker 2: given geographic area, but has no idea where to get
Speaker 2: talent and is struggling to get talent. Maybe you're a
Speaker 2: mid sized company and you don't know how to get
Speaker 2: talent to compete with the bigger companies that have name recognition.
Speaker 2: So you want to start a work based learning program,
Speaker 2: but you don't know where how to get how to
Speaker 2: get this going, and so you might partner with what
Speaker 2: we call convener and intermediary like GPS Education Partners, and
Speaker 2: you might partner with policymakers. You might partner with school districts,
Speaker 2: get everyone together on the same page, and just follow
Speaker 2: this blueprint for how to get a work based learning
Speaker 2: pilot off the ground. And the most important thing about
Speaker 2: this is it doesn't have to be done alone. If
Speaker 2: you're an employer, obviously you might not have a frame
Speaker 2: of reference for setting something like this up. But to
Speaker 2: go to people who do know how to do it
Speaker 2: and do know how to get all the parts working together,
Speaker 2: I think that's a very very critical piece of this,
Speaker 2: and so that is what we're trying to do with
Speaker 2: our book. We're trying to literally tell people this is
Speaker 2: what you do, step by step if you're interested in
Speaker 2: getting this set up and what it ends up as
Speaker 2: it really does depend again on the individual situation. But
Speaker 2: in an ideal world, students would be spending part of
Speaker 2: their school day in a real world employment situation, learning,
Speaker 2: for example, a new piece of manufacturing and technology that's
Speaker 2: leveraging robotics to do work and production more efficiently. That's
Speaker 2: just an example. The student comes in, the student is
Speaker 2: working with employees or a bit older or have a
Speaker 2: bit more experience, so they're learning not only these hard
Speaker 2: technical skills, but also the skills that are necessary just
Speaker 2: interpersonally to assimilate into the work world that we talk
Speaker 2: about so often. And then they are using their academic
Speaker 2: education to support what they are learning in the work environment.
Speaker 2: So this might be they are taking some classes on
Speaker 2: site at an education center that are related to let's say,
Speaker 2: using our existing example to manufacturing, getting a manufacturing certification,
Speaker 2: so that their academic education does actually line up with
Speaker 2: the work based learning experience. And what I also love
Speaker 2: about work based learning is that by the time you
Speaker 2: get to the end of your experience, you have a
Speaker 2: much better idea of whether this is a career path
Speaker 2: that you would like to pursue, and if so, what
Speaker 2: kind of education do you need in order to get
Speaker 2: ahead in that career path. And I wish, for example,
Speaker 2: my son, who is the person I was speaking of
Speaker 2: when I was talking about the engineering example, I wish
Speaker 2: that he had done something like this so that going
Speaker 2: to a four year college was a sensible, informed decision,
Speaker 2: Whereas right now it's kind of a crapshoot. We really
Speaker 2: have no idea what's going to happen when he gets
Speaker 2: that degree, or if he's even going to like that degree.
Speaker 2: Whereas if you participate in work based learning prior to
Speaker 2: going to college, you can ascertain is a four year
Speaker 2: college degree the next appropriate step for me? And maybe
Speaker 2: you can even have your employer, if you're going to
Speaker 2: continue working with that organization, help you financially with that degree,
Speaker 2: because the employer recognizes the value in you having that
Speaker 2: additional education. So essentially, it just means that post secondary
Speaker 2: education makes more sense for the individual before rather than
Speaker 2: just pipelining every student into a four year degree program,
Speaker 2: which is the model that we in the US have
Speaker 2: had for quite some time.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, well, we're going to take a quick ad break
Speaker 1: and then we're going to come back and talk more
Speaker 1: about how people can learn more while on the job
Speaker 1: for the jobs of the future. Well, I am back
Speaker 1: talking with Alexandra Lovett, who is a futurist also the
Speaker 1: author of They Don't Teach Corporate in College and the
Speaker 1: new book Make School Work. We've been talking about work
Speaker 1: based learning, but you know that's great for young people.
Speaker 1: A lot of the people listening to this are adults
Speaker 1: and they may have student children who would like benefit
Speaker 1: from this, But a lot of people are concerned about
Speaker 1: you know, I need to keep learning as well. You know,
Speaker 1: we keep hearing that the jobs of the future may
Speaker 1: be different than the jobs of today or whatever they
Speaker 1: catch phrases are. So how should people who are already
Speaker 1: in the workforce now be thinking about the skills they
Speaker 1: might need in the future.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite topics, And you know, I get
Speaker 2: asked every single day about AI's impact on the workforce
Speaker 2: and its impact on skills and what we will need
Speaker 2: to do in order to as humans meaningfully contribute to
Speaker 2: our organizations going forward. So I think this gets to
Speaker 2: the heart of your question because AI is one of
Speaker 2: those things where most people in the workforce today are
Speaker 2: starting with a blank slate. Nobody really has these skills.
Speaker 2: If you do have skills, maybe they're pretty rudimentary, like
Speaker 2: you know how to type something into CHATGYBT or claude
Speaker 2: and get some kind of sensible answer to it. But
Speaker 2: that is really only the starting point for leveraging let's
Speaker 2: say generative AI effectively. And so what I'm recommending that
Speaker 2: everybody do is, first of all, have a mindset of
Speaker 2: learning agility, understanding that your learning is not over just
Speaker 2: because you're no longer in formal education, and that having
Speaker 2: a gainful employment situation for the foreseeable future means that
Speaker 2: you have to be continuously revisiting what skills you have
Speaker 2: and what skills you need. And in terms of where
Speaker 2: to start with this, I always recommend that people take
Speaker 2: a look around and say, what are the parts of
Speaker 2: my current job that are being automated and what do
Speaker 2: I need to learn to still have a productive role
Speaker 2: in whatever process or workflow I'm involved in. So it
Speaker 2: really does involve a little bit of individual employees being
Speaker 2: MANI futurists. You have to kind of look around and say, okay,
Speaker 2: this is the area that is most vulnerable to automation,
Speaker 2: and what additional or adjacent skills can I develop? In
Speaker 2: order to continue to participate. And I'll give you a
Speaker 2: very clean example of this. I'm a workplace columnists for
Speaker 2: several different outlets. When I think about column writing and
Speaker 2: I write on the workforce, of course, I think about
Speaker 2: what AI is capable of doing in that process today
Speaker 2: and what is it going to be capable of doing
Speaker 2: at some point in the near future. And from a
Speaker 2: writing column perspective, the writing itself is actually likely to
Speaker 2: be done by AI. It's already, it's already happening. And
Speaker 2: if I just rely on that writing skill, I could
Speaker 2: be out of a job within a couple of years.
Speaker 2: So instead, I have to look at the entire process
Speaker 2: of the production of a column and say, h, there
Speaker 2: are things like fact checking, interviewing with sensitive sources, editing.
Speaker 2: Those are all things that, let's say, the Wall Street Journal,
Speaker 2: for example, is not going to allow to be done
Speaker 2: completely by AI. Some of those things, there's got to
Speaker 2: continue to be a human in the loop. And if
Speaker 2: I want to keep writing columns or keep doing columns,
Speaker 2: I need to think about how I can acquire the
Speaker 2: editing skill, how I can acquire the fact checking skill,
Speaker 2: and how I can enhance the in person or phone
Speaker 2: or video interviewing that I do with people so that
Speaker 2: sensitive sources can continue to feel comfortable because there are
Speaker 2: going to always be sources that are not going to
Speaker 2: be jazzed about revealing things to an AI. And I
Speaker 2: think that's just how it's probably going to be. I
Speaker 2: could be wrong, but I am staying a step ahead
Speaker 2: of the situation in which I do not have a
Speaker 2: role anymore, because the writing itself is being done by AI,
Speaker 2: and everybody who is in a job, regardless of what
Speaker 2: that job is, needs to be doing that same type
Speaker 2: of thinking what can be automated or what's on the
Speaker 2: chopping block to be automated, and how can I acquire
Speaker 2: those additional skills? And in terms of where you acquire
Speaker 2: the skills, we are lucky in the sense that there
Speaker 2: is more skill acquisition opportunity just out there in the
Speaker 2: public domain than there ever was previously.
Speaker 1: Things like well, why don't you give us some examples
Speaker 1: of where people should go to look like, let's say
Speaker 1: they've identified a skill that they would like to have
Speaker 1: and then they basically need to design their own curriculum
Speaker 1: because their company isn't doing this for them. What should
Speaker 1: they do?
Speaker 2: So I think looking online is just a great way
Speaker 2: to start. There are so many really prestigious universities actually
Speaker 2: that are offering free versions of certain classes. This is
Speaker 2: especially true in technology, but is also relevant in other
Speaker 2: fields as well. There are so many online repositories of
Speaker 2: learning content Coursera to me. I call it ut to me.
Speaker 2: Some other people say you to me, but there are
Speaker 2: dozens of those that you can go and access different
Speaker 2: types of learning opportunities. LinkedIn learning is another really really
Speaker 2: good one. I have taken several of those courses through
Speaker 2: that my colleagues have produced to learn think more about
Speaker 2: what they do and get a little bit deeper on
Speaker 2: certain topics. You can also ask, I mean, there's the
Speaker 2: old fashion just asking to be mentored by someone who
Speaker 2: might be in your field and might be a little
Speaker 2: bit further ahead on let's say that AI skill development
Speaker 2: and how it applies specifically to your workflow or business process.
Speaker 2: And that's what I recommend. It doesn't matter again, what
Speaker 2: the level of the person is, because the level doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily correlate with the knowledge. You could have young people
Speaker 2: who are really really good at AI. You could have
Speaker 2: senior people who are really really good at AI. It
Speaker 2: is a bit of a misconception that all young people
Speaker 2: are good at technology. I don't think that's necessarily true.
Speaker 2: It just depends on the person. And so looking for
Speaker 2: that person within your purview who has a generosity of
Speaker 2: spirit and who also seems to know what they're doing,
Speaker 2: and shadowing them and learning how are they prompting the
Speaker 2: technology to get it to work for them for what
Speaker 2: they're trying to do. I have learned so much just
Speaker 2: in passing with conversations people, Oh my god, you're using
Speaker 2: AI to do that? Really, how do you do that?
Speaker 2: And then you literally just learned it on the job
Speaker 2: right there, And so.
Speaker 1: What are you doing using it for in your life currently?
Speaker 2: Oh so it's a really good question. So, Laura, I
Speaker 2: don't use it for any writing. And I'll tell you
Speaker 2: a little bit kind of a funny story. One time
Speaker 2: a few months ago, a client said to me that
Speaker 2: they thought a white paper that I had written was
Speaker 2: generated by AI. And I asked them, how how did
Speaker 2: they come up with that? And they said, well, I
Speaker 2: put it into one of the AI you know, detectors,
Speaker 2: and it said it's got it's eighty five percent. Sounds
Speaker 2: like something that's already out there. But what the client
Speaker 2: didn't do was click on the source that the AI
Speaker 2: was generating this information from and found that the source
Speaker 2: that the AI had been trained on was my own content.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, so it was like, you know, you and.
Speaker 2: I have been in this and in our spaces for
Speaker 2: a while, and so we've generated a lot of content.
Speaker 2: And AI is only as smart as the content that
Speaker 2: it's trained on. So therefore it can't necessarily be relied
Speaker 2: upon a to be unique in its thinking and b
Speaker 2: to put things together in a way that makes sense.
Speaker 2: If I look at the AI version of my content,
Speaker 2: sometimes if I dig a little bit below the surface,
Speaker 2: I can see that it doesn't quite make sense. And
Speaker 2: this is why humans still need to be in the
Speaker 2: loop when evaluating AI content, because people who are new
Speaker 2: to an industry, are new to a role, might not
Speaker 2: have that institutional knowledge or skills to recognize that what
Speaker 2: they're reading is not one hundred percent accurate or relevant.
Speaker 2: So I definitely use it for things like background research.
Speaker 2: I do want to give the caveat with research, you
Speaker 2: have to be very careful about the data you're getting
Speaker 2: and making sure that you are still looking at the
Speaker 2: sources that the AI is citing to ensure that those
Speaker 2: are reputable sources, because a lot of times AI doesn't
Speaker 2: know the difference. So this goes back to having some
Speaker 2: degree of knowledge in your field, but just summarizing and
Speaker 2: I would say collating a bunch of information that is
Speaker 2: in a lot of different sources. I think AI is
Speaker 2: really really good for that. I think it's sometimes it's
Speaker 2: a good thought starter if you just don't even know
Speaker 2: where to begin on a topic or on a project,
Speaker 2: it can give you some starting ideas. It can absolutely
Speaker 2: hold you accountable. I am now experimenting with using AI
Speaker 2: for personal coaching, for career coaching, and I am recognizing
Speaker 2: how sycophantic it is, which for those who might not
Speaker 2: have heard that term, it really means that AI is
Speaker 2: looking blowing smoke up your butt and validating you kind
Speaker 2: of to an extreme extent. And it's a great point, Alexander,
Speaker 2: that very funny. Yeah, So it does that, and you
Speaker 2: have to you have to really be and this this
Speaker 2: goes to AI skill acquisition, right, you have to understand
Speaker 2: how to prompt it. So it's giving you a really
Speaker 2: unbiased view of what you're working on, not just telling
Speaker 2: you everything that you think and do is great, but
Speaker 2: that's a skill, just like any other skill, understanding how
Speaker 2: to prompt AI effectively. So these are the things that
Speaker 2: I'm I'm noodling on I'm working with. I still think
Speaker 2: it's it's highly useful, but I don't think it's as
Speaker 2: good as we sometimes give it credit for. Will it
Speaker 2: get that good? It might, but it still isn't going
Speaker 2: to have the ability to think truly independently, and so
Speaker 2: we have to continue as content providers to put really,
Speaker 2: really good, strong content into the world so that the
Speaker 2: AI in turn can be more accurate and effective in
Speaker 2: what it's recommending. Because without humans, AI can't think on
Speaker 2: its own, and we probably a while from it being
Speaker 2: able to do.
Speaker 1: So we're aways from there. Still, all right, Well, we're
Speaker 1: going to take one more quick ad break and then
Speaker 1: I'll be back with more from Alexandra Lovett. Well, I
Speaker 1: am back talking with Alexandra Lovett, who is an expert
Speaker 1: on all things future and how to change the school
Speaker 1: and work and how we learn these days. So I
Speaker 1: want to pivot though to your own personal productivity. We've
Speaker 1: been talking a little bit about what you use AI for,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious about any routines you have. We love
Speaker 1: to hear about people's productivity routines, morning routines, anything else
Speaker 1: you're doing that you think makes you more productive.
Speaker 2: Well, and I know this is your sweet spot, so
Speaker 2: I would love some advice from you. But what I
Speaker 2: do is I try to get started as early as
Speaker 2: possible in the day because I find that on something
Speaker 2: that is concrete, so not just checking emails and answering
Speaker 2: messages or scrolling LinkedIn, but the project that I am
Speaker 2: working on on that day, I try to get a
Speaker 2: start by nine o'clock in the morning, so at least
Speaker 2: I've got some momentum for the rest of the day,
Speaker 2: because I find that once I get going, I am
Speaker 2: a lot more productive. If I'm putting things off, then
Speaker 2: it tends to get later in the day. Then I
Speaker 2: procrastinate even more, my energy level dips. So getting started early,
Speaker 2: getting some momentum, and then everything else that has to
Speaker 2: be done that day on that project seems a little
Speaker 2: bit easier. It doesn't seem like as much of a
Speaker 2: hurdle to get past. I also, it's kind of a
Speaker 2: similar point, but I break down very large projects into
Speaker 2: their component parts and try to assign a component part
Speaker 2: per week, and I do this for every single project
Speaker 2: that I'm working on, so that I'm not following this
Speaker 2: kind of amorphous walge. I have to write a book
Speaker 2: in the next six months, but during the week of
Speaker 2: February twenty third or twenty fourth, I am going to
Speaker 2: research and write this particular chapter. And I've got a
Speaker 2: workflow that goes week by week, not day by day yet,
Speaker 2: but week by week what needs to be accomplished. And
Speaker 2: I find that that keeps me on track with multiple
Speaker 2: balls that are in the air that have to be
Speaker 2: juggled effectively. Let's see what else do I do. I
Speaker 2: try to collaborate whenever possible. Although a lot of my
Speaker 2: work is solo, I find that I get a lot
Speaker 2: of energy and enthusiasm out of working with other people,
Speaker 2: and so wherever possible, I try to integrate some of
Speaker 2: that because that helps with my motivation and my momentum.
Speaker 2: So those are just some topline things. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: important as a solopreneur, and a lot of your listeners
Speaker 2: are going to be entering gig like work over the
Speaker 2: next couple of years, just the way the world's moving,
Speaker 2: and I think it's harder to motivate yourself and to
Speaker 2: keep yourself on a schedule than if you have a
Speaker 2: boss who's looking over your shoulder or an organization that
Speaker 2: has very concrete goals. And therefore, I think self monitoring
Speaker 2: of productivities and what you talk about is so critically
Speaker 2: important because you're not going to have that external reinforcement. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well. I love the idea of doing a little
Speaker 1: bit on a big project every week just so you
Speaker 1: keep touching it. So Alex Sandra, I always ask my guests,
Speaker 1: what is something you have done recently to take a
Speaker 1: day from great to awesome?
Speaker 2: So I like the days that I've done this a
Speaker 2: few times now where I have devoted an entire day
Speaker 2: to getting to know new people in my field. So
Speaker 2: you could call that networking. You could call that informational interviewing,
Speaker 2: or skill acquisition, depending on the person. It could be
Speaker 2: any It could serve any number of purposes. But my
Speaker 2: best days are when I make an interpersonal connection. Because
Speaker 2: I do work a lot. As I said on my own,
Speaker 2: I find that I'm in an echo chamber of my
Speaker 2: own ideas a lot of the time, and I just
Speaker 2: love to talk with people about things that we mutually
Speaker 2: find exciting, invigorating to get a new idea in the
Speaker 2: pipeline about a new way of thinking about things. So
Speaker 2: I've done this now a few times. But that's how
Speaker 2: if I can take my day from just being good
Speaker 2: writing what I normally know, to let me think about
Speaker 2: this in a whole new way and also feel like
Speaker 2: I'm motivated just through the process of collaboration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the best. It's the best to bounce ideas
Speaker 1: off of intelligent people. So, Alexandra, where can people find you?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm at Alexandralevitt dot com and are if you
Speaker 2: want to learn more about work based learning or what
Speaker 2: that's like or how you might get a program off
Speaker 2: the ground, we have make schoolwork dot org and feel
Speaker 2: free to get in touch and just let us know
Speaker 2: what you think of these ideas and what you think
Speaker 2: you might be doing with it in your community, and
Speaker 2: we would love to hear about it and perhaps help.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, Alexandra, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback
Speaker 1: about this or any other episode, you can always reach
Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making
Speaker 1: the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
Speaker 1: If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach
Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia,
Speaker 1: please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.