WEBVTT - #224 Jason Flom with Eric Riddick 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.280 On November sixth, nineteen ninety one, Eric Ritick was hanging 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.840 out in front of his friend's house at West Philadelphia. 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.039 At the same time, just two blocks away, Eric's childhood friend, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.520 William Catlett, was fatally shot in what police believed was 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.400 a drug dispute, and all eyewitnesses implicated a man named 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.520 Edward Pinat Johnson. But this was Philadelphia in the nineties, 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.000 where official misconduct was the norm and one shouldn't have 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.840 expected investigations to follow the actual evidence. So despite all 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:37.080 the signs pointing toward Penut Johnson and a rock solid alibi, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.199 and Eric was charged with the unmotivated murder of his 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.760 friend solely on a coerce statement from a man named 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.840 Sean Stevenson. So when none of the alibi witnesses were 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.360 even called to testify, the trial reached a predictable outcome, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.920 sending Eric away for life in prison. In nineteen ninety nine, 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.840 Stephenson finally recanted his bogus testimony, stating that he had 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.960 been under pressure from both the victim's friends and the 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:08.360 district attorney to maintain the lie. However, Eric was not 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.440 even alerted to the recantation until two thousand and three 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:17.520 the time elapsed made this earth shattering evidence inadmissible, With 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.679 the key to his freedom rendered useless. Eric's appeals were 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.720 repeatedly denied. It took the support of meek Mill students 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.800 at Georgetown, the election of a new district attorney with 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:33.119 a real conviction integrity unit, and almost an additional two 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:38.280 decades to finally set Eric Riddick free. This is Wrongful 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:57.760 Conviction with Jason flamm Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.520 Jason Flauhm. That's me, of course, I'm your host, and today, well, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.160 if there's a heaviness in my voice, it's because this 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.440 is a heavy story. We're about to tell you the 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.800 story of Eric Riddick's wrongful conviction. And one of the 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.880 reasons I've wanted to tell it is because so many 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:16.520 people that I respect have for years made this a priority. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:22.520 This case stands out, and this person stands out. And so, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.800 without further ado, Eric Riddick, as I often say, I'm 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.520 happy you're here, but I'm sorry you're here because of 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:30.679 what it took to get your here. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.400 Thank you for having me right off the back, I 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.600 want to definitely thank you personally, you and your network 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.480 for a giving voice to the voiceless, bringing light to 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.919 these issues. So thank you on behalf of myself and 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.400 those that are still fighting for freedom. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:47.040 No. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.760 That means the world to me and you know, for 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.640 our listeners, I'm sure that you won't be surprised to 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.119 hear that this is a Philadelphia case. There was an 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.919 incredible pull quote in the article about Tony Wright's a 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.760 wrongful conviction case in Rolling Stone Magny where it said 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:02.560 that in the nineties, a black man had a better 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.959 chance of getting justice in Philadelphia, Mississippi than Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.480 But just quickly before this happened, What was your life like? 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.760 I was a young guy in the streets in southwest Philadelphia. 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.560 I lived all my life I was living in poverty 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.000 in an impoverished area. Our area that was it was 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:22.840 a lot of good things, a lot of beautiful things, 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.880 but it was also a lot of violence, a lot 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.200 of drugs, a lot of mental health issues for me. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.520 Because I had both parents in the house, I was 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.520 being taught and educated from two perspectives. My parents always 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:39.120 told me to do the right thing, always told me 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.839 to go to school, but I chose to also hang 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.000 out with the guys in the streets, hooky school, all 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.200 those things that made me susceptible to being wrongly accused. 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.880 The fact is you didn't do this crime, and it 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:59.480 should have been really obvious to everyone from the beginning 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.760 that you didn't do it. But your case has so 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.200 many of the hallmarks that we see in ronfuel conviction cases. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.600 It's incompetent defense, lying witness. I mean, there was only 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:13.000 one accuser and no evidence, and no alibi witnesses called email. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.520 There were alibi witnesses and official misconduct. Let's go back 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:22.159 to it. So this crime was your friend William kat 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.599 who was fatally shot in West Philadelphia November of nineteen 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.360 ninety one. So take us back to that terrible night 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:29.719 when this happened. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:34.160 Well, November sixth nineteen ninety one, approximately like between five 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.240 thirty and six thirty. I was on fifty eethh and 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.400 Trinity Street, two blocks away from where the tragedy happened 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.400 on fifty eef and Belmart During the course of that week, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:45.440 it was a lot of things going on with different 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.560 individuals in that area dealing with the drug activities around there. 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.839 We was on fifty eth and Trinity Street, myself a 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.040 guy named Louis Jordan, Jeff Dawson, and Justine Joson Timak 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.279 with Jordan, all of whom was my alibi witnesses that 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.760 I gave to the homicide detectives. And as I told 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.960 him in my statement, once we heard the gunshots, myself, 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:12.280 Louis Jordan, and Jeff Dawson begin to walk towards where 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.000 the gunshots. Said, when we got to Bellmar, we've seen 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:17.960 that it was a crowd on a corner fifty eth 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.600 in Belmar and that William Catley was shot. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.479 Okay, So the police began their investigation and many of 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.760 the eyewitnesses were talking about this guy Edward Peanut Johnson right, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.400 which was a lead that they inexplicably ignored. I still 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.680 can't understand why. But when they connected with Sean Stevenson, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.159 he went on to say that he saw the shooter 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.640 up on a balcony about fifteen feet above William Catlet 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.120 and he described the shooter as the skinny black mail 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.320 in his early twenties, with a leather jacket like Eric Riddicks, 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.159 but he didn't see the shooter's face. A day later, though, 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.320 in a second interview, he says that you were the 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.679 shooter and that you were the guy that shot William 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.640 Catlet from the fire escape with a rifle that was 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.760 about two feet long. Now, it came out much later 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.040 that he was under pressure from both friends of the 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.320 victim and from the DA to implicate you in the shooting. 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.040 But we'll get to that in a little while. So 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.200 what happens next. 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:11.919 So make a long story short. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.000 On the eighth, I heard that the homicide detectives was 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.359 looking for me, so my mother and my father they 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.440 drove me down to the homicide detective Eighthan Reece, and 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.719 I gave a statement basically stating that I had nothing 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.119 to do with the crime. I was two blocks away, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.599 and here's the people that can confirm where I was 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.680 at at the exact time we actually was on the 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.400 portion we heard the gunshots. A detective named Paul Rich 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.599 again to try to manipulate me. He said that he 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:40.800 knew I didn't do it. He said that he knew 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.960 who did it. He named the individuals who he said 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.359 did it, but he was saying that being's door, I 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.160 know them. That he wanted me to say that I 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.880 knew that they did it. Basically, I was like, no, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.000 I'm not going to put myself somewhere where I wasn't. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.280 So then he got hostile. He starts saying that he's 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.640 going to charge me with the murder. This after he 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:00.760 acknowledged that he knew I didn't had nothing to do 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.080 with it. So we went back and forth. He tried 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.599 to use a termination and every time he did that, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.680 he stopped recording, he stopped writing down the things that 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.400 I was saying when I was coming to give a statement. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.720 So after that didn't work, I signed my statement stating 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.600 where I was at, stating the people that can gratify 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.120 where I'm at, and they let me go, but let 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.680 me rewind back first. One of the things that Detective 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.960 Paul Rich said when he was getting hostile that I 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.840 wasn't saying what he wanted me to say, and he said, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.440 before it's all over, I'm gonna charge you with this murder. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.480 He said, I don't care about the individual of God, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:33.200 like he said, I just need a body for a body. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:34.880 This is exact words to me. 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.440 You're gonna get convicted, You're gonna peel it, but by 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.400 the time your case is overturned, you're gonna be old 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:43.200 gray and broke down. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.160 You know. That's that's just really freaking sinister, and you 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.160 know it's I mean, it's gonna stick away for a 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.920 long time. The body for a body that line, it's 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.320 as if they're saying, yeah, just anybody will do right. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.600 It's like, this is what gets me, right, Why wouldn't 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.520 we want the person who actually committed the murder of 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.320 your friend to be brought to justice, if for no 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.600 other reason then that so they don't go and kill 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.760 somebody else, right, I mean everyone kept saying, like the 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:16.480 same name, right, Edward Penut Johnson. But they followed through 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.600 on their threat to you, and sure enough you were arrested. 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.360 January tenth, I was arrested on a corner fifty eighth 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.560 in Trinity Street. They took me to homicide detectives and 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:27.760 they charged me with murder. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.200 And so we get to the trial, and I just 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.600 want to give a brief summary, which I think should 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.679 shock everybody and frankly should piss everybody off, because the 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.360 prosecution's case, they, let's face it, they had no case. 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.760 So what they do. They relied solely on Stevenson's eyewitness testimony, 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.040 which by the way, had changed a number of times, 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.880 and then was eventually recanted. Stevenson said he saw you 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.280 fire a rifle from a fire escape, But the medical 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.560 examiner's ballistic report with the auto which breaks down each 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.200 bullet wound and the trajectory of each bullet, says clearly 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.720 that none of them traveled in a downward direction. So, Eric, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.360 I don't know if you're a magician, but you'd have 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.520 to be in order to shoot someone who's on ground 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.560 level from fifteen feet up and not have the bullets 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.920 traveling downward. I mean, it's obviously impossible. Did your lawyer 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:23.920 bring that up at all. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:24.640 Through on trial? 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.520 He didn't present the physical evidence dealing with the ballistics. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.200 He crossed examined that evidence, but he didn't pull out 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.960 or extrapidly the exculpatory elements within the ballistics with the 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.959 course called incontrovert evidence, which is scientific evidence that's proven 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.080 this one accusation to be scientifically implausible. You know, he 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.760 never brought that out. But also the greater tragedy in 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.240 my lawyer was his ineffectiveness regarding the alibi witnesses and 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.560 his opening statement. Three times he promised the jury that 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:01.040 he was going to present three alibi witnesses refute the 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.880 state's one witness. So through the whole trial, the fact 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.600 find this is waiting for him to keep his promise. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.440 Because opening statements are important. You set in the stage 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.560 for your defense. And he told the jury in three 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.600 places in this opening statement that he was gonna present 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.079 three alibi witnesses, stating that I was elsewhere at the 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.680 exact time of the crime. And when the trial was over, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.959 me and him argue because he was saying he wasn't 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.199 gonna present a case, and I told him to present 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.560 my alibi witnesses. They was there waiting to testify. After that, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.480 me and him arguing about it, he turned to me 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.640 and said, okay, okay, I'm gonna do it. And then 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.319 he looked at the judge and said you're on and 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.280 we rest. I'm sitting there listening and I heard him 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.080 say it, but I didn't really understand until I was 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.840 handcuffed and taking back to the holding cell, and then 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.719 it hit me. He just disregarded what I told him 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:48.920 to do. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.720 I mean, this guy, he literally just sent you down 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.360 the river, just processed you in like your life didn't 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.360 matter at all. And it's like, in a certain way, 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.280 he bears as much blame the people who framed you 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.080 in the first place, because it was up to him. Yes, 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.800 so now he rests his case. He throws you to 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.360 the wolves. The jury goes out. What were you thinking 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.679 when they went out? Did you still think that there 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:15.720 was still a chance that justice would be served? 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:16.400 Yes? 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.720 I did in my mind and my naive mind at 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.080 the time. I was saying to myself, it's no way 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.800 in the world that they're going to convict me on 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.800 a crime that I did not do. But I didn't 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.079 know the depths of the defects and the criminal justice system. 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.120 But also I didn't understand the language because I actually 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.400 was listening to my lawyer, and I remember going back 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.960 to the holding cell saying, my lawyer, you know he 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.040 killing it because I didn't understand the language. And I 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.080 still was saying to myself, it's nowhere in the world 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.960 that they're going to convict me, not just for a 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.280 crime that I didn't commit, but a friend of mine. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.360 I couldn't fathom that, Chris. But they deliverate for three DS. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.240 They came back in the city was dead locked and 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.400 he couldn't come to a conviction. Judge Paul Ribner turned 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.760 around and gave them the most corrupt instructions in his 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.480 own record. He put a burden on them outside of 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.960 the facts, and he said, listen, we've been here three 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.280 days deliverating on his keys. If y'all cannot come to 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.600 an agreement, then it's going to cost the taxpayers more money. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.959 It's going to cost them more time and the courts, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.760 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Ten minutes later, he 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.679 came back with the first to be murder conviction. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:37.800 Wow. This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.040 insurance company, and by Accenture, a global professional services company 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.200 with leading capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.720 reform the criminal justice system is a key pillar of 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.199 the AIG pro Bono program, which provides free legal services 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.600 and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.679 in need. As part of Eccentsure's commitment to racial and 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.920 civil justice. Accenture's Legal Access Program provides pro bono legal 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:08.280 services in partnership with more than forty organizations, bringing meaningful 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:17.480 change to people and communities worldwide. 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.240 This is very heavy to hold and wake up with 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.680 a life sentence on your back. To use the bathroom 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.600 with that life sentence on your back. To go to 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.520 the shower and walk around every day all day for 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.280 decades with that weight on your back, it's the heaviest 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.560 feeling that a person can imagine. For me, I never 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.440 experienced that personally because I never thought that I was 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.880 not coming home. I said to myself, I'm a fight, 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:42.480 I'm a fight. I'm a fight. 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:43.720 You know. It fueled me. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.400 I was blessed to have strong parents and they passed 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.640 their strength off to me to be able to survive 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.079 in those arduous situations, hard situations. So that's what I did. 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.000 I occupied my mind, I stayed in physical shape. I 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.480 made a decision to learn everything that I can learn. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.400 Turned my incarceration into like a university, right. I was 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.200 educated by a lot of powerful lifers that had rehability 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.120 to reform themselves, and they taught me the law. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:12.600 They taught me how to be a man. 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.000 But I was angry and I got into fights and 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:16.840 I wanted to hurt people, just like these young guys 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.600 out here now. And it was lifers that could still 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.960 speak the language that I understood that taught me how 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.320 to deal with it rationally. They gave me another option, 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.640 and they taught me the law. They taught me how 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.360 to understand the politics that the law was functioning in. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.640 You know, I learnt the law, and I fought for 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.480 thirty years every day when I had sell may Say 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:36.760 said I used to wake up in the middle of 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.640 my sleep talking about Commonwealth versus Santana states that when 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.960 incontrovertible evidence is repugnicant to human testimony, you reject the 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:45.920 human testimony. 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.680 They said, I used to wake up in my sleep, 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:49.680 Lily geting. 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.680 Listen, there's so much potential. Look, every time I visit 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:56.640 a prison, you know, I always come out feeling like 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.160 there's more humanity inside those walls than I see out here. 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.800 Oh Jesus, Troy Coleman's calling me on the other phone. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.680 Let me actually picked this up while we're put them 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:10.000 on speaker hold on how I can do this guated 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:14.160 individual at s c I Somerset. 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.240 It will be recorded and maybe monitored. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.880 Hey, Troy, I'm actually recording a podcast with Eric Riddick 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.040 right now. We were talking about you earlier, so we 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.680 got you on the speakerphone through the microphone, but he 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:28.560 can't He can hear you, but he can't talk back 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.120 to the ode hell, but he says, hello, he's thinking 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:38.000 about you. We all are, and uh, what you do? Okay? 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.560 God it call me later, all right? I mean, what 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:42.000 the fuck? 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:42.320 Right? 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.880 That's amazing. And I know you know Troy really well 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.400 and worked on his case while you were still inside, 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:53.160 and we actually covered his case recently, and we're we're 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.000 just hoping for justice for Troy Coleman. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:57.320 Can I say something real quick? 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.560 Yeah, just the thing even with Dick case right there 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:04.280 in Troy Coleman keys the victim in his case, Kevin 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.240 Jones was a friend of mine. I grew up with 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.640 the whole family, very close friends of mine, and just 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.200 me even offering assistance is testimony to the injustice of 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.320 even that case. Some of the family probably wouldn't even 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.960 like the fact that I'm helping. But at the end 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.320 of the day, right is right and wrong is wrong. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.880 Absolutely. And you know another guy that you knew inside, 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.440 who we also had the privilege of interviewing here, who 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.120 had spoken very highly of you in the past, is 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:32.840 Meek mill. 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.200 I was just talking to Meek earlier when he came 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.080 to prison. He was with me for those five months. 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.040 He said, when I go home, I promise you I'm 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.200 going to talk about your case. I'm gonna advocate for you. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.160 And when he went home, he did everything that he could. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.560 Georgetown dealt with me because he was sitting on the 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.160 podcast about his case and he brought up my case. 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.960 Dan Sepian and NBC. They was introduced to my case, 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.440 Desiree Pereire. She took me through the whole Rock Nation. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.320 All of these individuals is like family to me now 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.040 based on Meek Mill introduced in my case and the 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.600 egregiousness of it to them. You know, he's an artist here, 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.679 he financially stable, but he stepped out of his comfort 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.720 zone and reached back, and just his case opened the 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.879 door for a lot of other cases dealing with the 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:16.440 corrupt cast. 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:17.600 It wasn't just my case. 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.280 So then let's get to the post conviction litigation. Because, 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.880 first of all, all the way back in nineteen ninety nine, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.720 that's a long time ago, the prosecution's only eyewitnessed Stevenson 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.399 recanted his statement in an affidavit. He stated that he 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.600 was under pressure from friends of the victim and from 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.440 the district attorney to identify you. Now at the time, 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.960 Pennsylvania law, the post conviction relief Act required that new 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.520 evidence get ready for this be filed within sixty days 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.320 to be considered on a field that's insane. And you 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.399 didn't physically receive a copy of the recantation affidavit for 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.920 another four years after that, which was two thousand and three. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.720 So of course this meant that by the time you 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.320 filed for post conviction relief, it was way too late 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.920 and it couldn't even be included. Again, what the hell 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.560 where is justice in that? Okay, So his recantation continued 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.880 to be an admissible which meant that you're repeated attempts 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.719 to prove your innocence in the following years were routinely denied. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.679 The PCRI statue is literally an obstruction of justice. No 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.480 statue have the power to subvert the concept of justice. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.640 The foundation of the judicial system is in the preamble 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.800 of the United States, Count Toru, we the people to 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.880 form a more perfect union and to establish justice. So 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.160 now any statue that come after that is opposed to 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:36.080 actualized justice, not subordinate justice. The legislation cannot pass a 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.960 statue that obstruct evidence from coming in that can proves innocence, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.000 because they surely wouldn't do it if it proved guilt 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:49.360 right right, The politics of corruption, culture corruption is nullifying 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.720 those foundational principles that really can't be justified. But that's 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.440 what happens. That's why people is in prison under wrong 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.760 for conviction. And that's what makes Larry Krasner administration so 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.639 damn powerful, Larry Kraft and Patricia Cummings for him to 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.040 get up there and identify a culture corruption. And I'm 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.000 gonna say this from being in prison and seeing it 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.800 with my own eyes. I'm telling you today here on 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:16.240 the record that there are thousands of individuals in prison 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.840 that can prove today that their convictions is wrongly convictions, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.399 but they can't get the evidence in that the courts 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:24.960 know exists. 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:26.760 And they'll listen to it because they filed in pc 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:27.200 of ORI's. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.879 But the courts have their hypocritical audacity to look in 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.359 people faces and say, well, we see the evidence have merit, 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.000 but we don't have jurisdiction to entertain it because it's 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:37.560 time Barr. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:40.240 With me, when I was pro. 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.680 Say, litigating, I argue I gave the judge their oath 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.080 of office when they said my evidence was time Barr, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.040 and I'm saying, no, you have the inherent power of 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.400 the court to adjudicate any matter that served the entert 0:19:52.480 --> 0:20:00.600 of justice. 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.639 So let's go back to the post conviction litigation and 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.959 how you ended up out here today, because it's kind 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:09.560 of a miracle. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:09.880 Really. 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.679 Now, I'm going to rewind a little bit. During the 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.600 initial investigation, as we mentioned, most of the eyewitnesses told 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.439 police that the actual perpetrator was Edward who went by 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.600 the name Panut Johnson, but that lead was never followed 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.080 up on, and Johnson himself was murdered in nineteen ninety seven. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.960 So get this, everybody. In two thousand and five, Penut 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:38.080 Johnson's father, Bruce Reese, submitted a fucking AffA David, confirming 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.600 that his son and a friend were responsible for William 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.000 Catlin's death for his own da head to do that, 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.879 it's so freaking heavy, and Reese, the dad wrote, and 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.160 I quote this is a quote direct quote. My son 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.000 had always expressed regret that mister Riddick had sat at 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.280 prison for a crime that he had nothing to do with, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.800 and quote and back in twenty nineteen, all those years later, 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.600 two other witnesses also signed out for David, saying that 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.240 they saw Johnson shoot Williams. So that brings us almost 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.320 to the president. What happens next? 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.239 So as we litigate in the court and we wind up 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.320 going to the conviction and tech with unit, we had 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.760 a PCRI pending. My lawyer in Mecca Igwy came on 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.440