1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: On November sixth, nineteen ninety one, Eric Ritick was hanging 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: out in front of his friend's house at West Philadelphia. 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: At the same time, just two blocks away, Eric's childhood friend, 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: William Catlett, was fatally shot in what police believed was 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: a drug dispute, and all eyewitnesses implicated a man named 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Edward Pinat Johnson. But this was Philadelphia in the nineties, 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: where official misconduct was the norm and one shouldn't have 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: expected investigations to follow the actual evidence. So despite all 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: the signs pointing toward Penut Johnson and a rock solid alibi, 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: and Eric was charged with the unmotivated murder of his 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: friend solely on a coerce statement from a man named 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: Sean Stevenson. So when none of the alibi witnesses were 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: even called to testify, the trial reached a predictable outcome, 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: sending Eric away for life in prison. In nineteen ninety nine, 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: Stephenson finally recanted his bogus testimony, stating that he had 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: been under pressure from both the victim's friends and the 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: district attorney to maintain the lie. However, Eric was not 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: even alerted to the recantation until two thousand and three 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: the time elapsed made this earth shattering evidence inadmissible, With 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: the key to his freedom rendered useless. Eric's appeals were 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: repeatedly denied. It took the support of meek Mill students 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: at Georgetown, the election of a new district attorney with 23 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: a real conviction integrity unit, and almost an additional two 24 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: decades to finally set Eric Riddick free. This is Wrongful 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: Conviction with Jason flamm Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 26 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: Jason Flauhm. That's me, of course, I'm your host, and today, well, 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: if there's a heaviness in my voice, it's because this 28 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: is a heavy story. We're about to tell you the 29 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: story of Eric Riddick's wrongful conviction. And one of the 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: reasons I've wanted to tell it is because so many 31 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: people that I respect have for years made this a priority. 32 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: This case stands out, and this person stands out. And so, 33 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: without further ado, Eric Riddick, as I often say, I'm 34 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: happy you're here, but I'm sorry you're here because of 35 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: what it took to get your here. 36 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me right off the back, I 37 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: want to definitely thank you personally, you and your network 38 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: for a giving voice to the voiceless, bringing light to 39 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: these issues. So thank you on behalf of myself and 40 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: those that are still fighting for freedom. 41 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: No. 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: That means the world to me and you know, for 43 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: our listeners, I'm sure that you won't be surprised to 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: hear that this is a Philadelphia case. There was an 45 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: incredible pull quote in the article about Tony Wright's a 46 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: wrongful conviction case in Rolling Stone Magny where it said 47 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: that in the nineties, a black man had a better 48 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: chance of getting justice in Philadelphia, Mississippi than Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 49 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: But just quickly before this happened, What was your life like? 50 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: I was a young guy in the streets in southwest Philadelphia. 51 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: I lived all my life I was living in poverty 52 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: in an impoverished area. Our area that was it was 53 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: a lot of good things, a lot of beautiful things, 54 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: but it was also a lot of violence, a lot 55 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: of drugs, a lot of mental health issues for me. 56 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: Because I had both parents in the house, I was 57 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: being taught and educated from two perspectives. My parents always 58 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: told me to do the right thing, always told me 59 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 2: to go to school, but I chose to also hang 60 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: out with the guys in the streets, hooky school, all 61 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: those things that made me susceptible to being wrongly accused. 62 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: The fact is you didn't do this crime, and it 63 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: should have been really obvious to everyone from the beginning 64 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: that you didn't do it. But your case has so 65 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: many of the hallmarks that we see in ronfuel conviction cases. 66 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: It's incompetent defense, lying witness. I mean, there was only 67 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: one accuser and no evidence, and no alibi witnesses called email. 68 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: There were alibi witnesses and official misconduct. Let's go back 69 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: to it. So this crime was your friend William kat 70 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: who was fatally shot in West Philadelphia November of nineteen 71 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: ninety one. So take us back to that terrible night 72 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: when this happened. 73 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: Well, November sixth nineteen ninety one, approximately like between five 74 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: thirty and six thirty. I was on fifty eethh and 75 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: Trinity Street, two blocks away from where the tragedy happened 76 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: on fifty eef and Belmart During the course of that week, 77 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: it was a lot of things going on with different 78 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: individuals in that area dealing with the drug activities around there. 79 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: We was on fifty eth and Trinity Street, myself a 80 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: guy named Louis Jordan, Jeff Dawson, and Justine Joson Timak 81 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: with Jordan, all of whom was my alibi witnesses that 82 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: I gave to the homicide detectives. And as I told 83 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: him in my statement, once we heard the gunshots, myself, 84 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: Louis Jordan, and Jeff Dawson begin to walk towards where 85 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: the gunshots. Said, when we got to Bellmar, we've seen 86 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: that it was a crowd on a corner fifty eth 87 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: in Belmar and that William Catley was shot. 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: Okay, So the police began their investigation and many of 89 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: the eyewitnesses were talking about this guy Edward Peanut Johnson right, 90 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: which was a lead that they inexplicably ignored. I still 91 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: can't understand why. But when they connected with Sean Stevenson, 92 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: he went on to say that he saw the shooter 93 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: up on a balcony about fifteen feet above William Catlet 94 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: and he described the shooter as the skinny black mail 95 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: in his early twenties, with a leather jacket like Eric Riddicks, 96 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: but he didn't see the shooter's face. A day later, though, 97 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: in a second interview, he says that you were the 98 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: shooter and that you were the guy that shot William 99 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: Catlet from the fire escape with a rifle that was 100 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: about two feet long. Now, it came out much later 101 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: that he was under pressure from both friends of the 102 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: victim and from the DA to implicate you in the shooting. 103 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: But we'll get to that in a little while. So 104 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: what happens next. 105 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 3: So make a long story short. 106 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: On the eighth, I heard that the homicide detectives was 107 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: looking for me, so my mother and my father they 108 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: drove me down to the homicide detective Eighthan Reece, and 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 2: I gave a statement basically stating that I had nothing 110 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,119 Speaker 2: to do with the crime. I was two blocks away, 111 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: and here's the people that can confirm where I was 112 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 2: at at the exact time we actually was on the 113 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: portion we heard the gunshots. A detective named Paul Rich 114 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: again to try to manipulate me. He said that he 115 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: knew I didn't do it. He said that he knew 116 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: who did it. He named the individuals who he said 117 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: did it, but he was saying that being's door, I 118 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: know them. That he wanted me to say that I 119 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: knew that they did it. Basically, I was like, no, 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: I'm not going to put myself somewhere where I wasn't. 121 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 2: So then he got hostile. He starts saying that he's 122 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: going to charge me with the murder. This after he 123 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: acknowledged that he knew I didn't had nothing to do 124 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: with it. So we went back and forth. He tried 125 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: to use a termination and every time he did that, 126 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: he stopped recording, he stopped writing down the things that 127 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: I was saying when I was coming to give a statement. 128 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: So after that didn't work, I signed my statement stating 129 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: where I was at, stating the people that can gratify 130 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: where I'm at, and they let me go, but let 131 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: me rewind back first. One of the things that Detective 132 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: Paul Rich said when he was getting hostile that I 133 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: wasn't saying what he wanted me to say, and he said, 134 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: before it's all over, I'm gonna charge you with this murder. 135 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: He said, I don't care about the individual of God, 136 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: like he said, I just need a body for a body. 137 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: This is exact words to me. 138 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: You're gonna get convicted, You're gonna peel it, but by 139 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: the time your case is overturned, you're gonna be old 140 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: gray and broke down. 141 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: You know. That's that's just really freaking sinister, and you 142 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: know it's I mean, it's gonna stick away for a 143 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: long time. The body for a body that line, it's 144 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: as if they're saying, yeah, just anybody will do right. 145 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: It's like, this is what gets me, right, Why wouldn't 146 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: we want the person who actually committed the murder of 147 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: your friend to be brought to justice, if for no 148 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: other reason then that so they don't go and kill 149 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: somebody else, right, I mean everyone kept saying, like the 150 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: same name, right, Edward Penut Johnson. But they followed through 151 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: on their threat to you, and sure enough you were arrested. 152 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: January tenth, I was arrested on a corner fifty eighth 153 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: in Trinity Street. They took me to homicide detectives and 154 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: they charged me with murder. 155 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: And so we get to the trial, and I just 156 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: want to give a brief summary, which I think should 157 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: shock everybody and frankly should piss everybody off, because the 158 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: prosecution's case, they, let's face it, they had no case. 159 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: So what they do. They relied solely on Stevenson's eyewitness testimony, 160 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: which by the way, had changed a number of times, 161 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: and then was eventually recanted. Stevenson said he saw you 162 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: fire a rifle from a fire escape, But the medical 163 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: examiner's ballistic report with the auto which breaks down each 164 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: bullet wound and the trajectory of each bullet, says clearly 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: that none of them traveled in a downward direction. So, Eric, 166 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're a magician, but you'd have 167 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: to be in order to shoot someone who's on ground 168 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: level from fifteen feet up and not have the bullets 169 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: traveling downward. I mean, it's obviously impossible. Did your lawyer 170 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: bring that up at all. 171 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: Through on trial? 172 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: He didn't present the physical evidence dealing with the ballistics. 173 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: He crossed examined that evidence, but he didn't pull out 174 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: or extrapidly the exculpatory elements within the ballistics with the 175 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 2: course called incontrovert evidence, which is scientific evidence that's proven 176 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: this one accusation to be scientifically implausible. You know, he 177 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: never brought that out. But also the greater tragedy in 178 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: my lawyer was his ineffectiveness regarding the alibi witnesses and 179 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: his opening statement. Three times he promised the jury that 180 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: he was going to present three alibi witnesses refute the 181 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: state's one witness. So through the whole trial, the fact 182 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: find this is waiting for him to keep his promise. 183 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 2: Because opening statements are important. You set in the stage 184 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: for your defense. And he told the jury in three 185 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: places in this opening statement that he was gonna present 186 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 2: three alibi witnesses, stating that I was elsewhere at the 187 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 2: exact time of the crime. And when the trial was over, 188 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 2: me and him argue because he was saying he wasn't 189 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 2: gonna present a case, and I told him to present 190 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: my alibi witnesses. They was there waiting to testify. After that, 191 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: me and him arguing about it, he turned to me 192 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: and said, okay, okay, I'm gonna do it. And then 193 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 2: he looked at the judge and said you're on and 194 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: we rest. I'm sitting there listening and I heard him 195 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: say it, but I didn't really understand until I was 196 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 2: handcuffed and taking back to the holding cell, and then 197 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 2: it hit me. He just disregarded what I told him 198 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: to do. 199 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: I mean, this guy, he literally just sent you down 200 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: the river, just processed you in like your life didn't 201 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: matter at all. And it's like, in a certain way, 202 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: he bears as much blame the people who framed you 203 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: in the first place, because it was up to him. Yes, 204 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: so now he rests his case. He throws you to 205 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: the wolves. The jury goes out. What were you thinking 206 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: when they went out? Did you still think that there 207 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: was still a chance that justice would be served? 208 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: Yes? 209 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: I did in my mind and my naive mind at 210 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: the time. I was saying to myself, it's no way 211 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: in the world that they're going to convict me on 212 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: a crime that I did not do. But I didn't 213 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: know the depths of the defects and the criminal justice system. 214 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: But also I didn't understand the language because I actually 215 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: was listening to my lawyer, and I remember going back 216 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: to the holding cell saying, my lawyer, you know he 217 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: killing it because I didn't understand the language. And I 218 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: still was saying to myself, it's nowhere in the world 219 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: that they're going to convict me, not just for a 220 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: crime that I didn't commit, but a friend of mine. 221 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: I couldn't fathom that, Chris. But they deliverate for three DS. 222 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: They came back in the city was dead locked and 223 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: he couldn't come to a conviction. Judge Paul Ribner turned 224 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: around and gave them the most corrupt instructions in his 225 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: own record. He put a burden on them outside of 226 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: the facts, and he said, listen, we've been here three 227 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: days deliverating on his keys. If y'all cannot come to 228 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: an agreement, then it's going to cost the taxpayers more money. 229 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 2: It's going to cost them more time and the courts, 230 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Ten minutes later, he 231 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 2: came back with the first to be murder conviction. 232 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: Wow. This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global 233 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: insurance company, and by Accenture, a global professional services company 234 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: with leading capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to 235 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: reform the criminal justice system is a key pillar of 236 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono program, which provides free legal services 237 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most 238 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: in need. As part of Eccentsure's commitment to racial and 239 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: civil justice. Accenture's Legal Access Program provides pro bono legal 240 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: services in partnership with more than forty organizations, bringing meaningful 241 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: change to people and communities worldwide. 242 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: This is very heavy to hold and wake up with 243 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 2: a life sentence on your back. To use the bathroom 244 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 2: with that life sentence on your back. To go to 245 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: the shower and walk around every day all day for 246 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: decades with that weight on your back, it's the heaviest 247 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 2: feeling that a person can imagine. For me, I never 248 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: experienced that personally because I never thought that I was 249 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: not coming home. I said to myself, I'm a fight, 250 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: I'm a fight. I'm a fight. 251 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: You know. It fueled me. 252 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 2: I was blessed to have strong parents and they passed 253 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: their strength off to me to be able to survive 254 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 2: in those arduous situations, hard situations. So that's what I did. 255 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: I occupied my mind, I stayed in physical shape. I 256 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: made a decision to learn everything that I can learn. 257 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: Turned my incarceration into like a university, right. I was 258 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: educated by a lot of powerful lifers that had rehability 259 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: to reform themselves, and they taught me the law. 260 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: They taught me how to be a man. 261 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: But I was angry and I got into fights and 262 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: I wanted to hurt people, just like these young guys 263 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: out here now. And it was lifers that could still 264 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: speak the language that I understood that taught me how 265 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: to deal with it rationally. They gave me another option, 266 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: and they taught me the law. They taught me how 267 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: to understand the politics that the law was functioning in. 268 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: You know, I learnt the law, and I fought for 269 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: thirty years every day when I had sell may Say 270 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: said I used to wake up in the middle of 271 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: my sleep talking about Commonwealth versus Santana states that when 272 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: incontrovertible evidence is repugnicant to human testimony, you reject the 273 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: human testimony. 274 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 3: They said, I used to wake up in my sleep, 275 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: Lily geting. 276 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: Listen, there's so much potential. Look, every time I visit 277 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: a prison, you know, I always come out feeling like 278 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: there's more humanity inside those walls than I see out here. 279 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, Troy Coleman's calling me on the other phone. 280 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: Let me actually picked this up while we're put them 281 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: on speaker hold on how I can do this guated 282 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: individual at s c I Somerset. 283 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: It will be recorded and maybe monitored. 284 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: Hey, Troy, I'm actually recording a podcast with Eric Riddick 285 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: right now. We were talking about you earlier, so we 286 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: got you on the speakerphone through the microphone, but he 287 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: can't He can hear you, but he can't talk back 288 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: to the ode hell, but he says, hello, he's thinking 289 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: about you. We all are, and uh, what you do? Okay? 290 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: God it call me later, all right? I mean, what 291 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: the fuck? 292 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: Right? 293 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: That's amazing. And I know you know Troy really well 294 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: and worked on his case while you were still inside, 295 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: and we actually covered his case recently, and we're we're 296 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: just hoping for justice for Troy Coleman. 297 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: Can I say something real quick? 298 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, just the thing even with Dick case right there 299 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: in Troy Coleman keys the victim in his case, Kevin 300 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: Jones was a friend of mine. I grew up with 301 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: the whole family, very close friends of mine, and just 302 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: me even offering assistance is testimony to the injustice of 303 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: even that case. Some of the family probably wouldn't even 304 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: like the fact that I'm helping. But at the end 305 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 2: of the day, right is right and wrong is wrong. 306 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely. And you know another guy that you knew inside, 307 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: who we also had the privilege of interviewing here, who 308 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: had spoken very highly of you in the past, is 309 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: Meek mill. 310 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: I was just talking to Meek earlier when he came 311 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: to prison. He was with me for those five months. 312 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: He said, when I go home, I promise you I'm 313 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: going to talk about your case. I'm gonna advocate for you. 314 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: And when he went home, he did everything that he could. 315 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: Georgetown dealt with me because he was sitting on the 316 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: podcast about his case and he brought up my case. 317 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: Dan Sepian and NBC. They was introduced to my case, 318 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: Desiree Pereire. She took me through the whole Rock Nation. 319 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: All of these individuals is like family to me now 320 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: based on Meek Mill introduced in my case and the 321 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: egregiousness of it to them. You know, he's an artist here, 322 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 2: he financially stable, but he stepped out of his comfort 323 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 2: zone and reached back, and just his case opened the 324 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: door for a lot of other cases dealing with the 325 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 2: corrupt cast. 326 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: It wasn't just my case. 327 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: So then let's get to the post conviction litigation. Because, 328 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: first of all, all the way back in nineteen ninety nine, 329 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: that's a long time ago, the prosecution's only eyewitnessed Stevenson 330 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: recanted his statement in an affidavit. He stated that he 331 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: was under pressure from friends of the victim and from 332 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: the district attorney to identify you. Now at the time, 333 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania law, the post conviction relief Act required that new 334 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: evidence get ready for this be filed within sixty days 335 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: to be considered on a field that's insane. And you 336 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: didn't physically receive a copy of the recantation affidavit for 337 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: another four years after that, which was two thousand and three. 338 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: So of course this meant that by the time you 339 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: filed for post conviction relief, it was way too late 340 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: and it couldn't even be included. Again, what the hell 341 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: where is justice in that? Okay, So his recantation continued 342 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: to be an admissible which meant that you're repeated attempts 343 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,719 Speaker 1: to prove your innocence in the following years were routinely denied. 344 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 2: The PCRI statue is literally an obstruction of justice. No 345 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: statue have the power to subvert the concept of justice. 346 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 2: The foundation of the judicial system is in the preamble 347 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: of the United States, Count Toru, we the people to 348 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 2: form a more perfect union and to establish justice. So 349 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 2: now any statue that come after that is opposed to 350 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: actualized justice, not subordinate justice. The legislation cannot pass a 351 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: statue that obstruct evidence from coming in that can proves innocence, 352 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 2: because they surely wouldn't do it if it proved guilt 353 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 2: right right, The politics of corruption, culture corruption is nullifying 354 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: those foundational principles that really can't be justified. But that's 355 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 2: what happens. That's why people is in prison under wrong 356 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: for conviction. And that's what makes Larry Krasner administration so 357 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 2: damn powerful, Larry Kraft and Patricia Cummings for him to 358 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 2: get up there and identify a culture corruption. And I'm 359 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 2: gonna say this from being in prison and seeing it 360 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: with my own eyes. I'm telling you today here on 361 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 2: the record that there are thousands of individuals in prison 362 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: that can prove today that their convictions is wrongly convictions, 363 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: but they can't get the evidence in that the courts 364 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 2: know exists. 365 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 3: And they'll listen to it because they filed in pc 366 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 3: of ORI's. 367 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: But the courts have their hypocritical audacity to look in 368 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: people faces and say, well, we see the evidence have merit, 369 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: but we don't have jurisdiction to entertain it because it's 370 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: time Barr. 371 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: With me, when I was pro. 372 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 2: Say, litigating, I argue I gave the judge their oath 373 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: of office when they said my evidence was time Barr, 374 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: and I'm saying, no, you have the inherent power of 375 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: the court to adjudicate any matter that served the entert 376 00:19:52,480 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: of justice. 377 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: So let's go back to the post conviction litigation and 378 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 1: how you ended up out here today, because it's kind 379 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: of a miracle. 380 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 3: Really. 381 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: Now, I'm going to rewind a little bit. During the 382 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: initial investigation, as we mentioned, most of the eyewitnesses told 383 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: police that the actual perpetrator was Edward who went by 384 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: the name Panut Johnson, but that lead was never followed 385 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: up on, and Johnson himself was murdered in nineteen ninety seven. 386 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: So get this, everybody. In two thousand and five, Penut 387 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: Johnson's father, Bruce Reese, submitted a fucking AffA David, confirming 388 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: that his son and a friend were responsible for William 389 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: Catlin's death for his own da head to do that, 390 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: it's so freaking heavy, and Reese, the dad wrote, and 391 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: I quote this is a quote direct quote. My son 392 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: had always expressed regret that mister Riddick had sat at 393 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: prison for a crime that he had nothing to do with, 394 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: and quote and back in twenty nineteen, all those years later, 395 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: two other witnesses also signed out for David, saying that 396 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: they saw Johnson shoot Williams. So that brings us almost 397 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: to the president. What happens next? 398 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 2: So as we litigate in the court and we wind up 399 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: going to the conviction and tech with unit, we had 400 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: a PCRI pending. My lawyer in Mecca Igwy came on 401 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 2: board and worked with Georgetown professor Mark Howard and the 402 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 2: three Georgetown students who making them Exnery, Taylor, Kendall and 403 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: Alex They also worked with Desiree Pere's team, Jordan Seve 404 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 2: from Rock Nation and the Refirm on the powerful Atturning 405 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: and they just extended all their resources to work with 406 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: my attorney in Mecca, Igwy and we filed the petition 407 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: in the CiU unit. They shout it down. Initially, we 408 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 2: re argued it because they acknowledged that I was innocent, 409 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 2: but they were saying, well, we still feel that you 410 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 2: may have entered into a conspiracy to commit this crown, 411 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: so we're not going to entertain your petition. Larry Krazen 412 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: and Patricia Cummins, they still dealing with relics of that 413 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: culture corruption sometimes. Patricia Cummins took on the case herself. 414 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: When they turned over the files, we found out that 415 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: a firearm was found in the alleyway. 416 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: Can't make this out. 417 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: A broken rifle was found in the alleyway connected to 418 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: the balcony where I was accused of being, and the 419 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 2: DA tested it back then found that it didn't work 420 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: and that none of the projectiles came from his rifle, 421 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: so they hit the evidence. They never turned that over 422 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 2: to the defense. So when we found that, we amended it, 423 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 2: and that was the means in which Patricia Comings in 424 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: the DA's office agreed to release me under. 425 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing, but it's not shocking, right because 426 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: it's the same damn thing we see over and over again. 427 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: Until we fix the system, that's going to keep happening. 428 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: You know. 429 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: And it's deep, like with the PCRI statue, for example, 430 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: Counseling David oh who wound up being one of my 431 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: greatest supporters from Philadelphia, he passed two resolutions regarding my keys, 432 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 2: overwhelmingly one to addressed the time limitations that the PC 433 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: already put on present evidence, but also he passed the 434 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: resolution requested Governor Wolf depart in me things doing the 435 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: record being saturated with evidence of innocence. 436 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: Listen, there's so many villains in this case, but there 437 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: are even more heroes at the end of the day. Right, 438 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: You've got the Georgetown students, You've got Meek Mill, you 439 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: got Patricia Cummins, you got Rock Nation. Oh listen, I 440 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: mean was little I had to do with it, but 441 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: thank you for saying that. But Dan Selepion, I mean 442 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: you went from having the D team to the A team. Right, 443 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: and as a result of course, justice has finally been done, delayed, 444 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: but not denied. And that's a miracle. So, okay, thirty 445 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: years you finally step out to breathe free air. What 446 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: was that moment? 447 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 3: Like? 448 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 2: Oh man, well, I haven't yet found the words to 449 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: explain what I felt. The greatest moment was seeing my 450 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: mother's face. You know, that woman been on the front line. 451 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: She did everything from going in front of the legislation 452 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 2: Harrisburg or in front of the DA's office with bullhorns, 453 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: organizing and protesting non stop. When they told me that 454 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: I was going home in a half hour, that was 455 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 2: the greatest moment seeing her face. That felt greater than 456 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: the actual feeling of me going home. And since I've 457 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: been home, just seeing her enjoy the moment. What people 458 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: don't know is that the burden that I had to 459 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 2: carry all these years. Was that my father, which was 460 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: one of the greatest men I ever met in my life, 461 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 2: my situation actually took his life. He always was able 462 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: to protect his family, and my mother spoke about that 463 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: on an interview, how his heart couldn't take it once 464 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: they convicted me and there wasn't nothing that he could 465 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 2: do for the first time to protect his children. She 466 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: actually see him deteriorate after he watched his son get 467 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: railroaded in court and he died shortly after that. He 468 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: had a heart attack that took his life. 469 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: Wow. I think anyone who has a father or is 470 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: a father can probably relate. And that's literally heartbreaking. I mean, 471 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: it sounds like he was a great man. And all 472 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: I can say is rest and power. And if you 473 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: and your family can take any solace, it's in the 474 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: fact that you're out here now and you've really hit 475 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: the ground running. And what I mean by that is 476 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: your work with the Emergency Response Foundation or the ER Foundation. 477 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: For sure. Can you tell us about the amazing work 478 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: that you're doing. 479 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: So I've been home three months. I'm sitting right now 480 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: doing this interview, sitting in my office, the office of 481 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 2: the Emergency Response Foundation, which is an organization that I 482 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: created while I was in prison, and it's geared to 483 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: address the most critical issues in two areas, criminal justice reform, 484 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: stash reborn, and community development. It's amazing that nineties a 485 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 2: guard was sitting in the cell and today I'm sitting 486 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 2: in the office with three rooms in law books. I'm 487 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: looking at the law books right now, and the main 488 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: people that's going to be working in here is Axigneries 489 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: on the Horton Brothers that was commutated by Fetterman. They 490 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: hit the ground running, and that's the most beautiful thing 491 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 2: about it. Everybody's coming home. We all either on the 492 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 2: front line helping to get other wrongly convictors out or 493 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: just living normal lives. 494 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: So the Emergency Response Foundation, it's so many incredible people 495 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: working to help other amazing people get the justice that 496 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: they're seeking, that they deserve and that they've been waiting 497 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: for for decades and decades. There's going to be I'm 498 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: sure a number of our listeners reaching out for help, 499 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: and there's also going to be people reaching out who 500 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: want to help, who can help, and who want to 501 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: support the work of the Foundation. So the best way 502 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: to reach out or get involved is through the website, 503 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: which is er Foundation on nine dot com, so it's 504 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: er Foundation nineteen dot com. But it'll be linked in 505 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: our bio as well. So now we have a tradition 506 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: on wrongful conviction which is called closing arguments, and it's 507 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: the part of the show that I look forward to 508 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: each and every week because it works very simply just 509 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: like this. First of all, I thank you again, Eric 510 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: Riddick for just being who you are and for being 511 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: an inspiration to me and so many other people both 512 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: out here and on the inside. Thank you for just 513 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: being here and sharing your thoughts and your incredible story. 514 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: And now I'm just going to kick back in my chair, 515 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 1: turn off my microphone, leave my headphones on, and listen 516 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: to whatever else you want to share for the closing 517 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: arguments of our show. 518 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 2: So when I walked out of the courtroom, I basically 519 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: see that my freedom is a further testimony that justice 520 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 2: is in season. Me being on this show is testimony 521 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: that justice is in season. Rock Nation, Meek Mill getting 522 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: involved in the cases criminal justice Reform is testimony that 523 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 2: justice is in season. Georgetown University, the people at the 524 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 2: Grassroot becoming dissatisfied with the institutions they're supposed to serve 525 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: the people, like the judicial system, the police department, advocating 526 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 2: dissatisfaction and automatically compels change. So these are testimonies that 527 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: justice is in season. I'm going to continue to fight 528 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 2: on the front line as a vanguard with all those 529 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: entities that I just mentioned. I want to thank everybody 530 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: that was involved. I want to thank my attorney in 531 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 2: mecha Iguy again, but I want to thank the grass 532 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: Root and the ER Foundation. Emergency Response Foundation is going 533 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: to do everything in our power to help assist in 534 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: liberating those that's wrongly convicted and fighting for issues that's 535 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: worthy of fighting for. Our foundation is going to create 536 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: documentaries on these issues. You have many men and women 537 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: that's in prisons wrongly convicted, totally actually innocent of any 538 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: degree of guilt. But you have some that's innocent of 539 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 2: the degree of culpability that they convicted for. So the 540 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: ER Foundation has created what it's called an Alternative Resolution 541 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: service where we find those cases, we point out the 542 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: evidence that mitigate the degree of culpability, and we take 543 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: it to the DA's office, the Conviction Integrity Units, and 544 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: we find an alternative resolution, many of which may be 545 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: a plea to a lesser degree, because that's just as 546 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: much of an egregious injustice as someone that's actually complete 547 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: the innocent. So were going to try to address all 548 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: the issues of injustice and we're gonna build the foundation 549 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 2: as we go along. I want to salute again the 550 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 2: Jason Flum Show and other shows and networks like this, 551 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: because we always had a voice in prison, but we 552 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: didn't have those outlets. So today the Jason Flum Show 553 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 2: and other shows this testimony that justice is in season. 554 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 2: And the beauty about it is the universe is bent 555 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 2: towards justice, So we always knew that these moments was 556 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: gonna come. I want to thank the Crafts the Ministry 557 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: for their courage. I was set on a panel discussion 558 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: with Crafting and a mic came to me and I said, 559 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 2: I never thought that I would be sitting comfortably next 560 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 2: to the Phildelphy DA. But then I looked at him 561 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: and I said, this is not the DA. This is 562 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: the will of the people being manifested. You know, when 563 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: the people is dissatisfied, the people is going to start 564 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: networking and it's going to bring about change. I want 565 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: to thank everybody, all the names that we don't know, 566 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: for being vanguards on the frontline, fighting for justice, fighting 567 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 2: for community development and all of those things. And I'm 568 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: available anytime if you call on the Er Foundation if 569 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: our help is needed. We are here any advice that 570 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: people that's listening or that's involved want to give to 571 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 2: the Er Foundation. We are open for any suggestions and 572 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: any assistance and any help. So again, thank you for 573 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 2: having me. Everybody have a blessed day. 574 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 575 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 576 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: links in our bio now to see how you can help. 577 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our amazing production team Connor Hall, 578 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,239 Speaker 1: Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Wardis. The music on 579 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: this show, as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated 580 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram 581 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. 582 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava 583 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one