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Speaker 1: I actually heard a popping sound. It's one more thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm one more thing that's happened to me a couple

3
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Speaker 2: of times in my life, and it's not been good.

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Speaker 1: This one was inside my brain, which I guess could

5
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Speaker 1: be bad too, if it's an aneurysm or something. But

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Speaker 1: i'll explain the popping sound. So yesterday, back in August,

7
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Speaker 1: was a nineteen year anniversary of me stopping drinking. I'm

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Speaker 1: an alcoholic. Yesterday was the twentieth anniversary. As you know

9
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Speaker 1: now every day it goes by, it's the twentieth January

10
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Speaker 1: as we record, this eighth that I've been sober, even

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Speaker 1: though it happened about twenty old. I know, no kidding happened.

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Speaker 1: But so yesterday was the twenty year anniversary of me

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Speaker 1: losing my desire to drink alcohol completely. And I'll explain

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Speaker 1: how it happened that day. And I don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: It makes no sense to me. If I heard somebody

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Speaker 1: else talk about it, I would think they were a crackpot.

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Speaker 1: I if you know me, I'm not the kind of

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Speaker 1: person that believes this sort of crap. But this is

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Speaker 1: what happened to me.

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Speaker 2: So here you go.

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Speaker 1: I think I've told this story before, but I'll totally

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Speaker 1: get so. I was exactly five months sober Gladys twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago. I was exactly five months sober, just coincidentally

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Speaker 1: when I headed out on a vacation. Now I happened

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Speaker 1: to be going to Russia on vacations, but don't get

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Speaker 1: distracted by that. That's really got nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the story. But that's where I was going. And I

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Speaker 1: was a little worried because if you're a drinker, vacationing

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Speaker 1: and drinking like really fit together hand in glove. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean, an airport is just a giant bar with planes.

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Speaker 1: Really always had been for me, and I was a

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Speaker 1: little concerned about that, but I was feeling so solid

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Speaker 1: after five months. I wasn't really worried about it or

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Speaker 1: whatever for whatever reason.

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Speaker 2: And luckily, there's like no alcohol in Russia. Drinking's not

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Speaker 2: a thing.

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Speaker 1: I'd had a few I'd really like to drink during

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Speaker 1: the previous five months, but it hadn't really been bad.

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Speaker 1: And so anyway, I want to go on vacation and

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Speaker 1: I get on the plane at SFO. The second the

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Speaker 1: wheels come up off the tarmac, I get hit with

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Speaker 1: that desire to drink that if you're a drunk, you know,

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Speaker 1: is just like overwhelming. It's like you want air, like

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Speaker 1: you want food, like you want every It's it's just

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Speaker 1: like and I thought, oh crap, this is not good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was just hit with this because it's

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Speaker 1: an international flight. Got booze, I have a whole thing

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be on the plane for many, many, many

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Speaker 1: hours whatever. But so I didn't drink, but I really

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Speaker 1: really wanted to, and I was a little kind of

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Speaker 1: concerned about it. So I get to my vacation destination,

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Speaker 1: the only thing I can think about is drinking. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's the only thing I can think about. See,

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Speaker 1: how do I get to my hotel? And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: would like a drink? And how do I get a cab?

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Speaker 1: Sure would like to drink right now? We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to have lunch here soon. Maybe I can get a

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Speaker 1: cup of coffee. Man, would I like to drink? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was the only thing on my mind. I get

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Speaker 1: to my hotel, I go to a I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: to a museum. I go to a little lunch spot.

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Speaker 1: I order a beer because I want a drink. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna drink. Decided I'm gonna drink. I order a beer,

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Speaker 1: comes to the lunch I sit there. I ate the

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Speaker 1: sandwich because I really also don't want to drink, because

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Speaker 1: I know I'm an alcoholic and I gotta quit the

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Speaker 1: beer is sitting there and watching the bubbles go up

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Speaker 1: to the top of the glass while I ate my sandwich,

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Speaker 1: wanting to drink with every fiber of my body. But

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Speaker 1: I get up and I leave that, and I leave

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Speaker 1: that beer behind. So okay, I'm kind of okay. Now

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Speaker 1: I got past that, all right, Everything's fine. And then

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Speaker 1: I do a little walking around sight seeing. Then lka,

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Speaker 1: I really really really want to effing drink. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I freaking want to drink. I walk into a grocery store.

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Speaker 1: I walk back to the aisle. I get a bottle

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Speaker 1: of vodka. I go up to the get in line

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Speaker 1: at the grocery store. I'm holding my bottle of vodka.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, this is gonna be freaking awesome.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk around Moscow or Saint Petersburg with a

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Speaker 1: bottle of vodka, sipping at my bottle of vodka, and

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Speaker 1: join the site. This is gonna be the greatest day ever.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to drink and I'm standing in line,

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Speaker 1: but the line is moving so slow. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the problem is. Hurry up, what is the problem?

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Speaker 1: And I finally I sit down the vodka. I walk out.

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Speaker 1: There's gotta be an easier way, but on the walking

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Speaker 1: out it kind of goes away and I think he'll

89
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Speaker 1: bringing Thank god I didn't buy the bottle of vodka.

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Speaker 1: Back onto my tourism or whatever. Back comes the urge

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Speaker 1: to drink, very very strong. I walk into a bar

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Speaker 1: where here's the first really weird. I don't believe in

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Speaker 1: this sort of shit thing that happened to me. I

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Speaker 1: walk into a bar and I'm looking at myself from above,

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Speaker 1: like a cool artsy camera shot, looking down on myself

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Speaker 1: walking into the bar. I walk up to the bar,

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Speaker 1: to the bartender and order a beer, and I'm watching

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Speaker 1: it from above. I don't know what that means. My

99
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Speaker 1: brain broke or something. Something weird's going on, but that's

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Speaker 1: what happened to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know this is dime store amateur analysis, obviously,

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Speaker 2: and I would laugh it off, but you're of two minds, clearly, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and the one he is walking up to the bar,

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Speaker 2: and the other one's looking at the guy walking up

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Speaker 2: to the bar. Yeah, I mean that's something ABC one

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Speaker 2: two three. Yeah, it's crazy like the Devil and Angel

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Speaker 2: on shoulder head.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's exactly like that. Yeah, And so I watched

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Speaker 1: myself walk up to the bar. Now I'm back in

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Speaker 1: my body. I'm at the bar. I ordered the beer,

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Speaker 1: and while the guy, I'm the only person in the place,

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Speaker 1: which is my favorite kind of drinking in a bar,

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Speaker 1: by the way, only person there, And the guy has

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Speaker 1: got his back to me and he's pulling the handle,

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Speaker 1: filming the beer up. And while he's doing that, I

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Speaker 1: think I got to get out of here, and I

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Speaker 1: turn around and I just leave, and he probably curses

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Speaker 1: me under his breath in Russian after I leave. So

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Speaker 1: kind of go back and forth with the desires to

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Speaker 1: drink again throughout the day. It's colder than the than hell.

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Speaker 1: It's snowing like crazy, and it's it's winter out time,

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Speaker 1: and I'm outside and I'm pacing in front of Tolstoy's

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Speaker 1: house and I really.

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Speaker 2: Was at home.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't home. I thought he could help, which is

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Speaker 1: at the war of the piece, help me and I'm

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Speaker 1: pason back and forth, wanting to go in there and

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Speaker 1: do the tourist thing, but I just ah. So I

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Speaker 1: call somebody, a fellow person who has quit drinking, and

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Speaker 1: he said, you got to get to you got to

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Speaker 1: get to around some other alcoholics and talk to them somehow.

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Speaker 1: You got to find a way. And we had conveniently

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Speaker 1: actually looked up some places to talk to other alcoholics

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Speaker 1: before I left, but I had conveniently forgotten that or

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Speaker 1: put it out of my mind. But when he reminded

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Speaker 1: me of that, I thought, oh, yeah, right, So I

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Speaker 1: decide to find this church. It's now dark. I don't

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Speaker 1: know my way around Russia. I don't speak the language.

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Speaker 1: I've talked about that before. Traveling there was just nightmarish

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Speaker 1: because I just I couldn't figure anything out.

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Speaker 2: But I find out a different alphabet, so you can't

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Speaker 2: even like think, oh, that's the same root word.

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Speaker 1: As there was nothing, So it was really awesome. But

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Speaker 1: I had a map and I figured out how I

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Speaker 1: get clear cross town, trudging over there in the snow,

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Speaker 1: in the dark, so cold. I finally find this church

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Speaker 1: where I'm going to meet some other alcoholics. So I can,

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Speaker 1: you know, hopefully make it through the day. And it's

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Speaker 1: dark and lockeddown and I can't figure out what's going on,

150
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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking the schedule's wrong or something. And I'm

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Speaker 1: walking around this church and I walk around it several times.

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Speaker 1: It's got these iron fence around it with gates. I

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Speaker 1: walk around, I walk around, I walk around, and there's

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Speaker 1: a bar over there, and I finally decide, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a sign from God. If this church isn't available

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Speaker 1: to me, then I'm supposed to drink and I'm going

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Speaker 1: over that bar and we are going to get it.

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Speaker 1: On my last trip around to the church, there's a big,

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Speaker 1: giant Russian guy standing there and he looks at me

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Speaker 1: in the dark in the snow and says alcoholic. And

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Speaker 1: I said yeah, and he points toward the church and

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Speaker 1: I walk into the church and I hadn't heard a

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Speaker 1: word of English now in several days. Some guy from

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Speaker 1: Boston who I get to know, sticks his head out

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Speaker 1: and he said, hey, you're looking for an alcoholic And

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Speaker 1: at that moment, I know, I know God, I know,

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Speaker 1: And at that moment I heard a popping sound in

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Speaker 1: my head. A feeling of calm came over me and

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Speaker 1: I haven't had the slightest desire to drink ever since.

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Speaker 1: And that is my story.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And I have no idea what that means, why it happened,

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Speaker 1: how you would get it to happen to other someone

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Speaker 1: else who's a drug edictor alcoholic or whatever. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. All I know is that is exactly what

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Speaker 1: happened to me that day.

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Speaker 2: This is just my opinion. But I think you were healed. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: could be.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the biggest cliches on the planet. But

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Speaker 1: that is like the ultimate example of everything happens for

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Speaker 1: a reason, Like multiple times in a row. I like

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Speaker 1: that one, Michael, that I was healed. Yeah, religious intervention

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Speaker 1: there in that church in Saint Petersburg, the hand of God,

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, and people trying to do God's worth work on earth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you know as well? Yeah yeah, wow, that's I

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Speaker 2: got chills. That's amazing.

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Speaker 1: It gives me chills every time I tell that.

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Speaker 2: And I lived it right.

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Speaker 1: And it's been twenty years since I've had the slightest

191
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Speaker 1: desire to drink, when it had dominated my life for

192
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Speaker 1: the previous twenty two. There wasn't a moment I either

193
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Speaker 1: didn't want to drink or I wasn't trying to get

194
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Speaker 1: over the last hangover for twenty two years. Yeah, and

195
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Speaker 1: then and then it's just completely gone.

196
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Speaker 2: Right. And I know we have a friend in common

197
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Speaker 2: who's one of my best friends and collaborators in creative projects,

198
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Speaker 2: who had, you know, a different road. But he's like,

199
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Speaker 2: oh no, I never think about it, and I have

200
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Speaker 2: no desire to. Why would I ever want to do

201
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 2: that after, you know, being in a bit of a

202
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 2: dicey situation for quite some time. You know, that's what's

203
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,320
Speaker 2: what you pray for people who are who are bothered

204
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Speaker 2: tortured by you know, addiction.

205
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Speaker 1: I wish I had more knowledge from that that could

206
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Speaker 1: be of any help to you know, all this stuff

207
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Speaker 1: about all the people on the street and you need

208
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Speaker 1: to get him into rehabit and blah blah blah. I

209
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Speaker 1: know so many people who failed and everything like that.

210
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Speaker 1: I don't even know why I don't drink anymore so

211
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Speaker 1: I can help anybody else.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The fact that I heard a weird popping sound and

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Speaker 1: when I think about it, I can feel the feeling

215
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Speaker 1: of just like it leave my body from toad ahead

216
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Speaker 1: is weird.

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Speaker 2: Wow, boy, I almost want to throw out like five

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Speaker 2: different explanations from the entirely physical to the entirely metaphysical,

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Speaker 2: and we could go from there. But I think everybody's

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Speaker 2: got their own list in their head.

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Speaker 1: The fact that you saw yourself from above, I know,

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Speaker 1: and I don't believe in that sort of crap at

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Speaker 1: all at all. I mean, that's just it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think we've all had experiences where we think,

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Speaker 2: look at me, look what I'm doing, what am I things?

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Speaker 2: And yours just was translated into visual cortex of your

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Speaker 2: brain or something. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think there's something to do with the intensity of it.

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Speaker 1: I think it got it was so intense. I actually

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Speaker 1: believe I left this part out of the story because

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Speaker 1: I actually I believed it then and I believe it now.

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Speaker 1: If I drank that day, that was the end. I

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Speaker 1: was going to die. I just I know how I am.

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Speaker 1: I was in a dangerous city, in a dangerous country.

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Speaker 1: I know what I look for in the world, in trouble,

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Speaker 1: hanging around bad people in bad places. I just feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna die. I'm either gonna live, I'm gonna die.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't just a drink or don't drink. It

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Speaker 1: was are we gonna liver? We don't die? That's what

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Speaker 1: I was thinking in my head.

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Speaker 2: It was a hell of a good chance.

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Speaker 1: You're right, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna end up in a

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Speaker 1: prison or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Right right? Or just having a snot beat out of you.

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Speaker 2: That would be like the best case scenario and pennyless.

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Speaker 1: And note that it actually happened to the Boston guy

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Speaker 1: that oh really said, hey, are you looking for me?

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Speaker 1: He had got his leg broken by some guys in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night when he was running around.

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Speaker 2: Or yeah, because it's not like you were in the

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Speaker 2: mood for just a quick beer just sell no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: I know you were.

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Speaker 2: You were ready to walk around with a bottle of vodka.

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Speaker 1: Well that's that was my style, yes, right, okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, uh permission end on a humorous note, sure,

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Speaker 2: mister chairman. So when you're walking around the church and

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Speaker 2: you said to yourself, look there's a bar, it's a

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Speaker 2: message from God. God was thinking, Look, some guy bought

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Speaker 2: a building across from the church and decided to open

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Speaker 2: the bar. That's how real estate works, you idiot. That's

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Speaker 2: not a sign of anything.

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Speaker 1: It's really a zoning thing, more of a.

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Speaker 2: It's more an economic opportunity than a sign for me.

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Speaker 2: But whatever.

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Speaker 1: You believe, what you want to believe, would.

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Speaker 2: Have known God a great real estate agent.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's it