Speaker 1: In this episode, we discuss mental health and self harm.
Speaker 1: If you or a loved one need help, please call
Speaker 1: the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at eight hundred to seven three,
Speaker 1: eight to five five. Hey, y'all, Hey, and welcome to
Speaker 1: Let's Red Table. That I'm Tracy t Rowe and I'm
Speaker 1: Carl Presley. How are you feeling today, Tracy, I am
Speaker 1: feeling every day amazing. You know, this episode was heavy,
Speaker 1: I mean heavy, heavy, heavy girl. We're smiling now, but
Speaker 1: when I say it might be a few tiens this episode,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. I cried through the whole thing. We
Speaker 1: heard from the mother and stepfather of Miss u s A.
Speaker 1: Chestlee Christ, who died in January after taking her own life.
Speaker 1: It was beautiful to hear from the mother, especially about
Speaker 1: the wonderful person that Chesley was. It was beautiful. It
Speaker 1: was difficult, you know. It was kind of one of
Speaker 1: those bitter sweet moments for me because I was celebrating
Speaker 1: how amazing she was, how accomplished she was, how she
Speaker 1: had achieved so much, and meant to see that the
Speaker 1: underpinning of that was this depression and this pain. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't the first suicide attempt. I mean, so many
Speaker 1: things were impact in this episode. The answers that we
Speaker 1: all needed and the clarity that we all needed. It
Speaker 1: definitely had me looking at the thing a different way.
Speaker 1: You know, I've had my own suicidal thoughts, so I
Speaker 1: had to sit with myself and think hard and deep
Speaker 1: about some things and talk to the Lord. And I
Speaker 1: am grateful that I was able to come to a
Speaker 1: very good place. Therapy helped me a lot. I was
Speaker 1: able to find what I needed, and I just wished
Speaker 1: Chesty could as well. For her mother to be really
Speaker 1: clear that she had issues that were consistent, that it
Speaker 1: wasn't her first attempt. Hearing that right off the back
Speaker 1: for me, I was like my jaw dropped. I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: wait what this wasn't her first attempt? And you don't
Speaker 1: hear about that. No one publicizes that, right, No one says, well,
Speaker 1: you know, this amazing, beautiful, accomplished person attempted suicide yesterday,
Speaker 1: and so maybe we need to have a conversation about that.
Speaker 1: You're so happy that the person overcame it. You just
Speaker 1: kind of moved past it, right right. I just well,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a heavy episode. It was for me,
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a sobbing cry car that I had
Speaker 1: through the episode. It was the silent tears stream because
Speaker 1: I thought of all the grief and the sense of loss.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about it. This woman's life touched
Speaker 1: she had so many ripples, Chesley Chris. I looked up
Speaker 1: to her. I mean, of course I want to be
Speaker 1: a personelity and just watching her journey, she was such
Speaker 1: a great reporter. And when her mom said that she
Speaker 1: does things like you know, well, you know, I'm I'm living,
Speaker 1: but how are you? I immediately was like, Wow, who's
Speaker 1: done that for me? Like? Are these the things we
Speaker 1: need to look for when we say check on your
Speaker 1: strong friends. I don't think it would have stood out
Speaker 1: for me if my friend said, well how are you?
Speaker 1: I think I would have been so happy someone asked
Speaker 1: about me. You know, I just hey, I'm not realizing
Speaker 1: that it was a deflection. Wow. And the way that
Speaker 1: April was so honest and transparent to share, you know,
Speaker 1: her daughter and her loss. Thank you for being thankful
Speaker 1: and sharing with us that you have had that experience
Speaker 1: of being suicidal and reaching out and getting help. And
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that you were able to get the help
Speaker 1: you needed. Car, It's just I had to wonder if
Speaker 1: you had a friend, because you mentioned you were just
Speaker 1: kind of masking it. If you had had a friend
Speaker 1: that said, hey, Car, are you okay here? What would
Speaker 1: you have said in the midst of that at the
Speaker 1: height of your feeling suicidal. I truly had to work
Speaker 1: through that. The problem was I had similar to Chesty.
Speaker 1: I pushed people away because you don't want to be
Speaker 1: a burden, even if it's family. You don't want to
Speaker 1: hinder them. But yeah, I can look back at my journey,
Speaker 1: I see that it was just a breakthrough point for
Speaker 1: me because that's when the career cheerleader really was at
Speaker 1: the height, like I really described, and started to really
Speaker 1: bring that out for myself and who am I? And
Speaker 1: I found myself. But I feel like some people can't,
Speaker 1: and uh, suicidal thoughts came in like a it was
Speaker 1: like a spiral. I described it as like a flooding
Speaker 1: of thoughts. Luckily for me, I was able to research
Speaker 1: and read and get therapy and stay in therapy for
Speaker 1: a while and change therapists and found what worked for me,
Speaker 1: and I hope others can do the same. But it's
Speaker 1: just not that simple for everyone. I read that people
Speaker 1: don't really want to commit suicide, they want the pain
Speaker 1: to stop, and that was my exact situation. I wanted
Speaker 1: the pain of that situation to stop, and I felt
Speaker 1: like I was helpless. That gave me some insight that
Speaker 1: it wasn't that you necessarily wanted to end your life.
Speaker 1: For you, now I'm saying, it was that you wanted
Speaker 1: to end the pain and it felt like there was
Speaker 1: a no way out situation for me. That's what it was.
Speaker 1: After I had those thoughts. Not long after a coworker
Speaker 1: did commit suicide. That's when I was like, wow, how
Speaker 1: did that impact you? I was frustrated, concern because we
Speaker 1: were the happy people in the office. So again now,
Speaker 1: not even realizing that high functioning depression was a word
Speaker 1: at the time, I was traveling for hours a day
Speaker 1: for work and doing what I thought everyone else did too.
Speaker 1: They may have, but it's okay to say I'm not okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, this episode, hopefully we'll save a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful that we are keeping it really,
Speaker 1: really real. Some stuff this is not for fun, This
Speaker 1: is real, and the stuff they talked about it the
Speaker 1: Dangna table is real. Deal, real life, real table time.
Speaker 1: This is not fluff, This is not pump, this is
Speaker 1: not circumstances. This is blow your nose, babe, because you
Speaker 1: guys not running down a lot of it. Right. It's
Speaker 1: time to hear from our amazing community. We asked them,
Speaker 1: when they've experienced the grief, what has been the best
Speaker 1: way that people have supported them? And here are some
Speaker 1: of their answers. Tracy, kick it off, you know what?
Speaker 1: Come on here, I am kick it off. Seven. Gainwood said,
Speaker 1: listening and praying for me can never go wrong. You
Speaker 1: want to be heard and you want to support. I
Speaker 1: love that. Shout out to you. Caroline Richard said, it
Speaker 1: can make you better or better, So remember the best
Speaker 1: times you had together and pray for strength and blessings.
Speaker 1: Amen being present, sharing good memories and helping me move
Speaker 1: on from Isola right more Walker, Yes, indeed, Izola being
Speaker 1: present that is so important. Facts Tyrell Morton, he said,
Speaker 1: even though it hurts, you gotta learn how to let go.
Speaker 1: I love that it's accurate. Gotta learn how to let go. Wow,
Speaker 1: heartfelt acknowledgement of my right to grieve in my own way. Yes,
Speaker 1: Dianne feeling cooked. That's important. People have so many expectations
Speaker 1: about what you should be doing when you're in your
Speaker 1: grief process. You can grieve your own way. There's no
Speaker 1: right or wrong. I can't wait till we talk about that.
Speaker 1: Shadow work, which is a type of therapy gratitude, journaling,
Speaker 1: and meditation. Shadow work helps you understand the triggers. Gratitude
Speaker 1: and journaling shifts your daily habits while also allowing a
Speaker 1: space for you to be unfiltered and brain dump. Meditation
Speaker 1: helps you to calm your mind, since your nervous system,
Speaker 1: and breathe through the difficult times. Thank you, Gabby Garland,
Speaker 1: I know she is from Red Table Talk r v A.
Speaker 1: We appreciate that we have had some fantastic things that
Speaker 1: help and give me time and space to grieve without
Speaker 1: letting their discomfort with grief keep them away. Maggie Evans,
Speaker 1: that is so true. Thank you so much for that,
Speaker 1: Because you know what, people don't know how to deal
Speaker 1: with you. They don't how to engage with you and
Speaker 1: interact with you when you have griefs. They don't. They
Speaker 1: really don't. A lot of people treat you like your
Speaker 1: a leopard, or if you're not grieving the way it
Speaker 1: makes sense to them. Then you're not grieving, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm guilty. I am guilty. When my grandmother passed
Speaker 1: away years ago, I asked my mom, like, why haven't
Speaker 1: you cried? Wow? But everyone cries in their own time.
Speaker 1: I was young and just trying to have things my way, ch'all.
Speaker 1: So that's what you learned, and you do I learned.
Speaker 1: I definitely learned. Shout out to our Memphis Sister Friend
Speaker 1: Red Table Talk comments and to our r v A
Speaker 1: group as well. You guys are amazing and we thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your input. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a quick break, but when we get back, we'll be
Speaker 1: joined by two incredible guests from our Red Table Talk communities.
Speaker 1: All right, everyone listen. We are bringing to fellow URTT
Speaker 1: community members to the Virtual Red Table. Tracy, kick it
Speaker 1: off and tell us about your guests. It's my absolute
Speaker 1: pressure to kick it off, especially with this Red Table top.
Speaker 1: Memphis Sister Friend, Angie Castor is a hairstyle is here
Speaker 1: in Memphis, and she's unless Red Table Dad to share
Speaker 1: about the loved one she recently lost, including her brother
Speaker 1: and two cousins. We are so honored you are willing
Speaker 1: to share with us. Welcome, Angie, thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. I can't wait to get into it with
Speaker 1: you and talk to you. Today. I want to introduce
Speaker 1: you to a Red Table Talk r v A member,
Speaker 1: Dr Shantel J. Chambliss. She's actually the second member of
Speaker 1: the group and she's joining our virtual Red Table from
Speaker 1: right here in Richmond, Virginia. She lives with her husband
Speaker 1: and their nineteen month old rainbow baby Ryan. The Greece
Speaker 1: chesty Chris mom shared over losing her daughter is something
Speaker 1: Dr Chantell understands all too well, as she lost her
Speaker 1: son and delivery a little over six years ago. Dr
Speaker 1: Chantell is currently co writing a book about healing, and
Speaker 1: today we're grateful you are going to share about your
Speaker 1: journey with us. So welcome, Dr Chantell, Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. We are going to start things off with
Speaker 1: our weight what segment We're gonna share Which moments made
Speaker 1: us pause, rewind and listen again? The wait what moment y'all?
Speaker 1: When April chest Lee's mom read the final text, I
Speaker 1: cry almost every day now like I'm in mourning. I've
Speaker 1: wished for death for years, and I know you would
Speaker 1: want to know and want to help but I haven't
Speaker 1: wanted to share this weight with anyone. That would have
Speaker 1: been tough to ree. Like just the first sentence that
Speaker 1: part right there, I was like, oh my god, to
Speaker 1: have wished for death for years, I mean, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was tough. Definitely had to rewind on. Now. Do y'all
Speaker 1: think you would have chosen to share a final text
Speaker 1: from a loved one for her mom? I would have. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to agree with that, especially later on when
Speaker 1: she started talking about all the rumors surrounding her stuff
Speaker 1: and how people are asking them to like open murder investigations.
Speaker 1: I think it was important for her to say I
Speaker 1: am okay with knowing that this is what happened, because
Speaker 1: Chesley told me this is what she was gonna do,
Speaker 1: right right. She said that she has closure with her
Speaker 1: daughter's death because of what she said in the message,
Speaker 1: So she knew her mom and she knew what her
Speaker 1: mom would need. I'm glad she shared it, Especially when
Speaker 1: it's a public figure like this, we all feel included
Speaker 1: and we all feel like we want some closure too,
Speaker 1: So it was appreciated that she chose to share it,
Speaker 1: and I think I would have shared a final one
Speaker 1: from a loved one to Also, I can't imagine the
Speaker 1: amount of people who are suffering from that level of depression.
Speaker 1: Now everyone understands what that looks like, right, Because that
Speaker 1: it was like somebody was saving me in my chest.
Speaker 1: It was raw and gut wrenching, but it really put
Speaker 1: a lens on it. I will say that on the
Speaker 1: one hand, for me, it was like, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: don't go back and reread this, don't go back and
Speaker 1: revisit this, and just open that tender spot. That wound
Speaker 1: won't heal. But then the other side of me was thinking,
Speaker 1: you sharing this and your transparency in this, and you
Speaker 1: being able to open yourself up and really be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: To share this kind of intimacy with the world is
Speaker 1: a gift because it will make people look at their
Speaker 1: family members and understand that if they're suffering, that even
Speaker 1: though you love them, you won't be able to love
Speaker 1: them Away from this that was a white one. Let's
Speaker 1: go to the next way. What which kind of is
Speaker 1: along the same lines. You just never know what burdens
Speaker 1: people are carrying. Gammy said that during this episode, I
Speaker 1: do hope that opening up these discussions and just talking
Speaker 1: about where Chesley was or state of mind at that time.
Speaker 1: Hopefully encourage people to be kinder. You just never know
Speaker 1: what burdens people are carrying. GAMMI nailed it. I concur
Speaker 1: on that completely. How do you guys feel you don't.
Speaker 1: That's why they say be careful how you treat people,
Speaker 1: because you never know what someone is battling with. Like
Speaker 1: her mom said, like y'all seeing her on TV, she's smiling,
Speaker 1: she's always happy, but deep down she was not happy
Speaker 1: at all. And I'm like, dang, so you can fake
Speaker 1: a smile, boy man, right to look at someone so beautiful,
Speaker 1: so accomplished, gorgeous, at that level of accomplishment for her
Speaker 1: to still carry that heavy of a burden. How could
Speaker 1: we ever look at anyone and think that they don't
Speaker 1: carry any burden? Yep, absolutely, that's so true, because how
Speaker 1: much more accomplished could you have me? She missed America?
Speaker 1: Like what? And you think about When David, who was
Speaker 1: chestly step dad, shared about his experience with the street
Speaker 1: singer she passed, I had kind of latched onto a
Speaker 1: couple of Adele songs and I had a moment when
Speaker 1: I was up there by myself. I went and visit
Speaker 1: her favorite cupcake shop and soho, and there was a
Speaker 1: street singer singing one of these Adele songs. I was
Speaker 1: really emotional and I sat there and oh man, he
Speaker 1: he was such a good singer. He said, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a break for a minute. And I
Speaker 1: thought to myself, man, I'm sure you wish he would
Speaker 1: sing that other song. And God walks up to him,
Speaker 1: says something to him, and he says, I've got another
Speaker 1: request or another adule song and he sing that song. Wow,
Speaker 1: and that was I was just moved. I cried through
Speaker 1: the whole whole epith you know, listen, I love a
Speaker 1: so okay. It could be from a color to an
Speaker 1: insect to a song. And he signed, is always a
Speaker 1: comfort for me. Yeah, what kind of signce have you
Speaker 1: guys experienced? Angie and Dr Chanel. I lost my brother
Speaker 1: two years ago, a little over two years now, and
Speaker 1: his favorite holiday was Mother's Day because he got a
Speaker 1: chance to really show out and show how he thought
Speaker 1: he was the best child. So he always went above
Speaker 1: and vielding. So when we lost him, it was pretty hard.
Speaker 1: It was very, very hard because my mom worked the
Speaker 1: most with him, because although he was the most boyled.
Speaker 1: He was the most worst them. So this particular Mother
Speaker 1: Day this year, my brother's and we went to back
Speaker 1: and body works with my mom loves candles. So we
Speaker 1: get to the register and she's ringing us up. They
Speaker 1: asked what's your phone number? And I give them my
Speaker 1: phone number and they're like Mario. It's like, no, ma'am,
Speaker 1: my name is Angela. So she was like, do you
Speaker 1: know Mario. I was like, that's my little brother and
Speaker 1: I'm at the register like tears just flowing. But I
Speaker 1: was happy with that moment because it was a sign
Speaker 1: that he was saying, hey, sis, I'm still here. You know,
Speaker 1: this is my holidays. It's kind of like, yeah, still
Speaker 1: my holiday. And he's such a jokester. He was such
Speaker 1: he was the light of our friend. He's such a jokester.
Speaker 1: So it is. It was sad, but it was also
Speaker 1: a happy moment for me because it did connect me
Speaker 1: back to him and say, hey, he's good and he's
Speaker 1: still Mario. And I was like, hold on. I talked
Speaker 1: to little girl the register. I was like, I think
Speaker 1: my brother's been still in my points all these years.
Speaker 1: That's still in my point. Get the discount. That's still
Speaker 1: in my thirty So even though it was a sad moment,
Speaker 1: it was it was a great moment because his spirit
Speaker 1: is still with us. That's a sweet story. That's really
Speaker 1: sweet that he was like, yeah, you maybe getting twenty campbells,
Speaker 1: dog go on, but my name is all over. Dr Shantell.
Speaker 1: What about you? What kind of signs or experiences have
Speaker 1: you had? So so many, but one that pretty recent.
Speaker 1: So when my son passed, a girlfriend of mine took
Speaker 1: one of the ultrasound videos that we had taken of
Speaker 1: his heartbeat, and she took it to build a bear
Speaker 1: and she put the recording of Jaden's heartbeat into a bear. Now,
Speaker 1: my daughters, she's been screaming and crying since Thursday with
Speaker 1: these teeth erupting. Yesterday she went in. The bear is
Speaker 1: sitting on a bookcase in my office. She goes and
Speaker 1: gets this bear and she's like dancing and singing in
Speaker 1: and going my baby, my baby, And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: he's conforting his little sister, and he is. This girl
Speaker 1: has no interest. She has a like one whole side
Speaker 1: of her nursery is nothing but teddy bears that people
Speaker 1: gave us. Ryan, don't touch those bears from the moment
Speaker 1: she was conceived. I have known that he is watching
Speaker 1: over her. That's awesome. She probably communicates regularly with when
Speaker 1: she's in here, and she's just like randomly gibbering. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's what she's talking. I just know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: Even in the midst of the content that we're discussing,
Speaker 1: we can still find the highlights and getting able to
Speaker 1: remember and to be able to laugh and find joy
Speaker 1: in the memories. That's such a gift. You're right, such
Speaker 1: a gift. Taking it back to the episode is our
Speaker 1: next way? What moment? You know when April talked about
Speaker 1: and shared that Chesley had that pa functioning depression, depression
Speaker 1: is not always marked by someone laying in bad or
Speaker 1: unable to do things. And you know there are people
Speaker 1: who are high functioning who can get through the day
Speaker 1: because they were the face I know personally I have
Speaker 1: experienced it too, just reverence myself and being strong and
Speaker 1: somewhere about COVID, I was like, you know what, rest
Speaker 1: sounds great? So how can you all relate or do
Speaker 1: you have any experiences with any high functioning depression, whether
Speaker 1: it's you or a family member. This episode resonated so
Speaker 1: deeply with me because whereas I may have never had
Speaker 1: thoughts of ending my life, I know how it feels
Speaker 1: to be accomplished and celebrated and in the back of
Speaker 1: your mind you're like, I still wasn't enough, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't light you up the way people think that it does.
Speaker 1: It's sometimes very lonely, especially with black women, right because
Speaker 1: with these accomplishments comes in poster syndrome, which is a
Speaker 1: it's a side effect of this half function and depression.
Speaker 1: Right when she was like listening all of her accomplishations,
Speaker 1: she said something that like really stuck out to me.
Speaker 1: She said that Shellley never had anybody issues, Like she
Speaker 1: was very confident in her skin, but when people make
Speaker 1: fun of her age, it broke her. And it's like, wow,
Speaker 1: this woman who's so super confident, but like these little
Speaker 1: pebbles get thrown at you and they make you question
Speaker 1: your whole existence. And I experienced that half functional depression
Speaker 1: sounds better than it is. If I could go to
Speaker 1: other way, maybe I would, because sometimes you wanna go
Speaker 1: crawling the bed and put the covers over your head
Speaker 1: because it would be easier. It is exhausting. It is
Speaker 1: draining to function at a high level when internally it
Speaker 1: don't feel high. Listen, I just feel like women of color,
Speaker 1: black women, we are busy were we are. We're trying
Speaker 1: to find our own goals and dreams. Were trying to
Speaker 1: support the black men and our family, trying to praise
Speaker 1: black men in some instances. We are at the same
Speaker 1: time dealing with grief as well, which which really brings
Speaker 1: us as to why we're all even here to really
Speaker 1: dig into the themes of this episode. Now that you said, wait, what,
Speaker 1: we want to hear more from you. So Dr Shantell
Speaker 1: and Angie about how you personally really connected with this episode,
Speaker 1: Let's kind of tap into that and talk really Let's
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and dive deep into who our guests
Speaker 1: really are and and while you're here, how did you
Speaker 1: truly connect with the episode? What was maybe your impact
Speaker 1: point of the episode for each of you. I was
Speaker 1: on it before my brother passed, and and since he's passed,
Speaker 1: I have really been on this self away Kenning journey.
Speaker 1: His passing prompted the opening of my salon. I mean,
Speaker 1: it pushed me into areas of thinking that I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it, into knowing that I could do it, and
Speaker 1: for Mario to die gave you newfound pursuit of that answer.
Speaker 1: It opened up more questions to myself because for years
Speaker 1: my brother had been telling people I had a salon.
Speaker 1: He would tell his girlfriends that I had a salon
Speaker 1: so that they could come. He wanted me to do
Speaker 1: all his girlfriend's hair. I don't have to do everyone's hair.
Speaker 1: Cat now, wait a minute, Hold on a second. We
Speaker 1: got another way. What if the girlfriends Mario because I
Speaker 1: love him, but he was a homeless god love it.
Speaker 1: She was like, he wanted me to do all of
Speaker 1: the girlfriend's hair. I was the sister, so I didn't
Speaker 1: agree with everybody, so he would get the okay by
Speaker 1: sitting them to get their hair done. Like you like
Speaker 1: your did you? What did you think of? You wanted
Speaker 1: the seal of approval okay right when he left here,
Speaker 1: and that was just a goal of mine. You know what.
Speaker 1: I'm getting it not only for him, because it was
Speaker 1: something that I really wanted. I just didn't think that
Speaker 1: I could do it. My brother left here with so
Speaker 1: many goals. He left here with so many things that
Speaker 1: he wanted to do, And how dare I take my
Speaker 1: life for green and I still have the opportunity to
Speaker 1: get up every morning and complete my goals and do
Speaker 1: things that I want to do and do things for
Speaker 1: my children. So I'm gonna continue to reach and do
Speaker 1: what I can until God calls me home. It's so
Speaker 1: interesting to me to Angie that you have positioned it
Speaker 1: and the way that you say. You didn't say how
Speaker 1: he died, but you use different ways to say that
Speaker 1: you lost him. He's left us. And does it make
Speaker 1: it easier for you to reframe the loss and the
Speaker 1: way that you say it. Um, yeah, because I think
Speaker 1: for me and and and everybody's different. Because how he
Speaker 1: left here is it was so violent. It makes me angry.
Speaker 1: So in order for me to heal, I had to
Speaker 1: figure out how can I do this and not let
Speaker 1: my kids see it, not let my sons, you know,
Speaker 1: not let them see me fall so deep. So that's
Speaker 1: why I try to stay on the positive end of it,
Speaker 1: because if I did think about that part, I would
Speaker 1: be angry. Chantel let me ask you because you know,
Speaker 1: and I mean, I love that you're both here today
Speaker 1: because it's like two completely different perspectives. And what I'm
Speaker 1: hearing is like the loss of of someone by the
Speaker 1: hands of someone else, right, yeah, my brother was killed, right,
Speaker 1: and then just the loss of someone just through natural means. Channel,
Speaker 1: do you want to hear more about your experience and
Speaker 1: Jaden and what that means, because how was the experience
Speaker 1: truly for y'all? Don't think I've ever really heard you share,
Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully maybe you want to share today, honestly,
Speaker 1: like losing a child the way we lost Jaden so unexpectedly,
Speaker 1: um so drawn out. I think that is a huge
Speaker 1: part of our husband's and trauma is that we knew
Speaker 1: he wouldn't survive, but it took almost sixty hours for
Speaker 1: it to happen, and all we could do was laid
Speaker 1: like literally they had me almost strapped to a bed, right.
Speaker 1: And so I will say, because society minimized the way
Speaker 1: my son died, we began to minimize like maybe we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be grieving so hard, maybe we shouldn't still be
Speaker 1: so sad. But my favorite was, well, y'all can have
Speaker 1: another baby. Go into a delivery room to deliver a
Speaker 1: child and don't bring it home, and watch how you
Speaker 1: feel when someone says I'll just have another one. It's
Speaker 1: not a freaking sandwich. Right when you your sandwich girl,
Speaker 1: going there make another sandwich. It's not a sandwich with
Speaker 1: this this high functional depression. Because literally April has given
Speaker 1: us all something to really resonate and a and a
Speaker 1: and relate to. Of course, six years ago, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that that's what it was. Immediately I jumped right
Speaker 1: back into work. Right I was still in corporate America
Speaker 1: at the time. I was like part time corporate, part
Speaker 1: time entrepreneur. I didn't go back to my corporate job,
Speaker 1: and I would say almost I had to threaten to
Speaker 1: sue my corporate jo because they wanted me to come
Speaker 1: back to work in three days. What the what they said,
Speaker 1: I had a miscarriage. They considered it a miscarriage and
Speaker 1: that they would just give me the regular bereave men time.
Speaker 1: And I had to fight to say that I labored
Speaker 1: for fifty six hours. I only got to hold my
Speaker 1: son for about two hours. I'm not coming back to work,
Speaker 1: and if you'll make me come back to work, I
Speaker 1: will have every government agency in here ripping you all
Speaker 1: a new one. Oh my gosh. And again, like I said,
Speaker 1: society minimizes Neo NATO DUFs right, when a baby dies
Speaker 1: in the hospital, it's really minimized, versus if I had
Speaker 1: left the hospital with him and we had gotten into
Speaker 1: a car accident and he died for some reason, that
Speaker 1: would make his death different. And so the societal norms,
Speaker 1: and yeah, these norms really start to influence how you
Speaker 1: treat yourself. And so what I did was, even though
Speaker 1: I didn't go back to the corporate job, I jumped
Speaker 1: right back into my Busin this, I was like in
Speaker 1: the process of renovating a building for office space for
Speaker 1: my business, and I'm like at the construction site, like
Speaker 1: I'm still I still got pregnant. Bet, I'm out of
Speaker 1: the construction site. My milk came in because I gave birth.
Speaker 1: So I'm walking around and gorge and with frozen cabbage
Speaker 1: on my breast, but still working right and still welcoming
Speaker 1: guests into the house. And the final straw, someone came over,
Speaker 1: A group of people came, a group of girlfriends came over,
Speaker 1: and they brought food and cake and all this good stuff.
Speaker 1: And I got up. I went into the bathroom, but
Speaker 1: not to use it. I went to just sob and
Speaker 1: my husband came and found me, and he was like,
Speaker 1: we're not doing this. We're not doing this. And so
Speaker 1: that was the last of the visitors. We went away
Speaker 1: to really take some time to just cry, just process,
Speaker 1: just lay into wallow. We don't believe that we are
Speaker 1: allowed to wallow. I am allowed to wallow. I am
Speaker 1: allowed to cry. I'm allowed to stomp and kick and
Speaker 1: have a tempera tartrum. And we, especially black women, don't
Speaker 1: believe we're supposed to do that. And so it's that
Speaker 1: was the first I want to say. A couple of
Speaker 1: weeks was really a balancing act of trying to manage
Speaker 1: how I really felt versus how I thought people thought
Speaker 1: I should feel. Yeah, were you in a position where
Speaker 1: you felt like, if I just keep going and have
Speaker 1: some sense of normalcy and just get things done, I'll
Speaker 1: make it through this. Or were you just pushing through
Speaker 1: so you wouldn't have to think about what you had
Speaker 1: gone through? Funny you, actually, Tracy, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people who saw me, even car because she knows me,
Speaker 1: probably thought I was pushing through to not have to
Speaker 1: deal with it, when really I was pushing through because
Speaker 1: I was ashamed. I was ashamed on so many levels.
Speaker 1: I suffered from a few things that cause infertility. My
Speaker 1: son and my daughter was conceived through I v F,
Speaker 1: and so there's a level of shame that comes with
Speaker 1: that needing assistance to get pregnant, right, And then there
Speaker 1: was this level of shame that while I got pregnant,
Speaker 1: I couldn't bring my baby home, and so there was
Speaker 1: all the shame associated with it. So I almost kept
Speaker 1: going so people could go, she's still so accomplished, she's
Speaker 1: still getting stuff done, successful, she's still taking care of business,
Speaker 1: so that no one could say, oh, a girl can't
Speaker 1: even have a baby, right, was shame that kept me going.
Speaker 1: It wasn't trying not to think about it. Because we
Speaker 1: are ten days away from my son's sixth birthday. It
Speaker 1: doesn't go There's not a day that goes by that
Speaker 1: I don't think about it, right, So it was never
Speaker 1: an attempt to not think about it. It was really
Speaker 1: to make sure that people didn't focus in on what
Speaker 1: I failed at. I wanted them to say, oh, Shan
Speaker 1: Tails still getting it done, she's still doing it it. Really,
Speaker 1: it really was a deep, deep shame, and it's why
Speaker 1: when I watched this episode, the pain in my chest
Speaker 1: because I think about Chesley, and I'm like this, this
Speaker 1: girl was suffering all these years, and that's why she
Speaker 1: kept accomplishing and accomplishing and accomplishing and accomplishing, because she
Speaker 1: never wanted anyone to see her inability to be able
Speaker 1: to manage her emotions, her inability to be able to
Speaker 1: function quote unquote normally. Right, So let me just keep
Speaker 1: accomplishing stuff so that nobody ever sees this. No one
Speaker 1: ever has to look beyond the accomplishment to see the
Speaker 1: pain and suffering and the reality. There is no wrong
Speaker 1: way to do this thing, Okay, whether it's life, career,
Speaker 1: raising kids, having kids, there's no wrong way. Like our
Speaker 1: journeys are so individualistic, just so unique. If we really
Speaker 1: did normalize that more, which is why I'm so glad
Speaker 1: you're both here to share your stories, more people would
Speaker 1: be set free. I know this episode set me free
Speaker 1: as well. Like you all said, we're all looking up
Speaker 1: how function and depression and just trying to understand another
Speaker 1: person's journey. It's just not black and white. It's not
Speaker 1: black and white. And you know, to Chestle's mom's initial point,
Speaker 1: it wasn't the first attempt right for her mom to
Speaker 1: say that, so definitively, and to share that so openly
Speaker 1: and freely with us was also a way for her
Speaker 1: to be very transparent and clear that there was no
Speaker 1: murder investigation required. Here's what it really is, especially for
Speaker 1: people in the community of people of color. Hello, let's
Speaker 1: wake up and see that this is a real issue
Speaker 1: and we need to acknowledge it and address it. Uh.
Speaker 1: In corporate America too, like she has like I am so,
Speaker 1: I am upset over here, like I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is, the need to just some things up with
Speaker 1: the statement. You know, she had a miscarriage, Like you said,
Speaker 1: sixty hours of unmedicated labor. I'm gonna go further. Wasn't
Speaker 1: sixty hours? Several months? You know? This was stop? This
Speaker 1: is my life, you know what I mean? Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: here's the thing, car. The reality is that it is
Speaker 1: longest old white men regulate and create policy. Who don't
Speaker 1: have to bear children, deliver children, give birth, to go
Speaker 1: through a gestation period or have milk come in and
Speaker 1: having gorged breast and walking around with a period pad
Speaker 1: on this from the front to the back. They don't care,
Speaker 1: They don't know. Let's be honest too, though, when it
Speaker 1: comes to grief, especially in the black community. I don't
Speaker 1: see any men we're typing up the program, were organized
Speaker 1: the paperwork, you know what I mean? In my family
Speaker 1: at least just talking about the whole grief process. You know,
Speaker 1: not only did you both go through it, as my
Speaker 1: family is, we're very involved in the funeral process. You know,
Speaker 1: I gotta gather cards, read the cards put together. They
Speaker 1: were put together, the ceremonials. See what I mean. As
Speaker 1: men who are making these policies and rules, they're not
Speaker 1: involved in the in between parts anyway. So not only
Speaker 1: do you not understand childbirth, do you understand grief? Do
Speaker 1: you understand that family? Because they're you know, they're they're
Speaker 1: high functioning depression to a lot of men are I
Speaker 1: want to understand, So tell me more about what you
Speaker 1: what you're saying, and the emotional peace, Like the emotional
Speaker 1: grief is not just crying, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like as we all are aware of somebody passes away,
Speaker 1: like especially if they are close to us, the hardest
Speaker 1: seven days of your life. It's not just the funeral
Speaker 1: you gotta get through, it's the planning leading up to it.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying for people to just miss
Speaker 1: it in one phrase, as sure, oh she had a miscarriage,
Speaker 1: Oh she lost her brother, as if this is something
Speaker 1: I can quickly tumble and get over that. That's not
Speaker 1: how it works. I get that part. There's a missensitivity.
Speaker 1: It wasn't clear about the male part and the grief.
Speaker 1: That's That's what I was saying. Tell me more about
Speaker 1: what you mean about that. You know, how do families work.
Speaker 1: I know with my family, when someone passes away, the
Speaker 1: females come together, whatever females at the head of whatever
Speaker 1: piece of that family is they handling all paperwork. They
Speaker 1: I just don't I see, I don't know where the
Speaker 1: man that Honestly, when I'm thinking about it, at the
Speaker 1: head of the table. I guess, you know, not to
Speaker 1: minimize the male's role, but as women were just not
Speaker 1: allowed to grieve and still have to execute certain things
Speaker 1: at the same time, that opens up a good question.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you shared that. So Dr Shown Tellson's you
Speaker 1: and your husband both had this pregnancy and both had
Speaker 1: this experience of the delivery and the loss. How was
Speaker 1: his experience? It was minimized? It still is, And to
Speaker 1: be honest, and I'll tell anybody this. I often think
Speaker 1: my husband grieved harder and longer and deeper than I did, honestly,
Speaker 1: like just a piggyback off what car just said, the
Speaker 1: actual event of death. The women take care of everything, right,
Speaker 1: and so a lot of people just assumed that he
Speaker 1: didn't want to pick out the headstone for Jaden and
Speaker 1: more everyone came to me. It was like I had
Speaker 1: had this baby by myself, conceived him myself, and he
Speaker 1: was just afterthought. But it is because with most things
Speaker 1: I managed the household. Grief. Death is an event of
Speaker 1: the house, right, something that happens to this family. And
Speaker 1: so because we managed the family unit, a lot of
Speaker 1: times we tend to not check on our men. My
Speaker 1: husbands tend to have their arapy. We've had to have
Speaker 1: couples therapy. Jesse's experience was something I had never witnessed before.
Speaker 1: When the doctor came into the room to tell us
Speaker 1: that there was only about a ten percent chance that
Speaker 1: Jaden would survive. At that point, we had been together
Speaker 1: like twelve years. I had never seen him so hurt.
Speaker 1: I had never seen him crying that way, and it
Speaker 1: was jarring for me. And then he felt the need
Speaker 1: to apologize to me because he wasn't strong. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'll keep crying. Oh my word, that's society.
Speaker 1: Go back to those society and those out of societal norms.
Speaker 1: And again it was that shame when my best friend
Speaker 1: and my mom came, like they said the nurses were
Speaker 1: outside talking about him, about how bad he was crying
Speaker 1: all right, because he was like passed out on the floor,
Speaker 1: like almost had to give him smelling salts, right, and
Speaker 1: then if it wasn't affected, they would say he was
Speaker 1: cold and uncaring and there's no way for him to
Speaker 1: Jesse couldn't win. It was a no win situation and
Speaker 1: that's why it's like they feel how you want to feel.
Speaker 1: And then again his grief was minimized because he has
Speaker 1: other children. She has children from previous relationships. But you
Speaker 1: have other children, what does that mean? Audacity? But you know,
Speaker 1: Chelsea's mom said something about that, about how like she
Speaker 1: was bleeding but she had to hurry up and like
Speaker 1: be mommy. Feeling the way I felt and watching my
Speaker 1: children are it's almost like I'm bleeding, but I need
Speaker 1: to do trias with my children. They still need their mommy,
Speaker 1: But mommy is hurting she did. That happens so much.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's something that really struck me in
Speaker 1: this episode, which was April sharing about how while she
Speaker 1: was processing her own grief, I mean that was her baby,
Speaker 1: she was still having to care for the family, support
Speaker 1: them and how they greed. So it's it's amazing how
Speaker 1: like you said that, there's some tation right for the mother,
Speaker 1: for the woman, for the maternal instinct to kick in
Speaker 1: for everybody. Angie, what has it looked like for you
Speaker 1: and your family as the communal grieving process, for your
Speaker 1: brother and for your two cousins because you lost two
Speaker 1: cousins this year. Yeah, our family has gone through it
Speaker 1: this year. I've lost four cousins within the last four years,
Speaker 1: but I lost two cousins last month. And for my family,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry for your lost First of all, thank you.
Speaker 1: When I first heard about the initial first cousin, and
Speaker 1: it was almost identical to my brother and the idea
Speaker 1: that we hadn't finished grieving, although he's been gone for
Speaker 1: a little over two years. But it's you know, I
Speaker 1: just don't know when that grieving will end. It's getting better,
Speaker 1: it's it's lighter. I can see his laughter. I've chosen
Speaker 1: to think about beauty of his personality than the sadness
Speaker 1: of how he left here. So I hadn't finished grieving
Speaker 1: before I heard about the first cousin, and it was
Speaker 1: just kind of like I was known and people and
Speaker 1: the family was just kind of like, oh, Angela is
Speaker 1: not responding. I didn't know what to do. I was
Speaker 1: just kind of like, oh my god, we're here again. No,
Speaker 1: I'm just now getting to a point of mental clarity
Speaker 1: with my brother, and here we are again. The way
Speaker 1: that I'm dealing with grief now because of what I've
Speaker 1: learned with how I dealt with grief with my brother,
Speaker 1: I've learned to look at it from an opposite perspective.
Speaker 1: And so the family was kind of looking at it
Speaker 1: still like devastation. We need to go, you know, hunting
Speaker 1: for these people. And it's like I've learned a different
Speaker 1: way to grieve, y'all. So for the family was kind
Speaker 1: of at war a little bit at first because they
Speaker 1: felt like I was being you know, callous. Oh, we
Speaker 1: was all doing this for your brother when he passed.
Speaker 1: But I've learned a different way to grieve. To this day,
Speaker 1: I still have some cousins that give me the side
Speaker 1: I but I love them. I wasn't willing to let anyone,
Speaker 1: not even family, take me back be either come with me.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna come down there. I'll be here when
Speaker 1: you need me. I worked too hard to get to
Speaker 1: where I was, and and I still just the thoughts
Speaker 1: of losing them now. I still have my moments, but
Speaker 1: I grieve the way that that I choose to gree Well,
Speaker 1: thank you both for sharing that. I mean that listen
Speaker 1: to perspectives have just been amazing. I mean, these stories
Speaker 1: are going to change lives. People need to hear this.
Speaker 1: I'm constantly talking to my son about a lot of things,
Speaker 1: and mental health is a big one. He's had his
Speaker 1: own issues while he's growing up, but now that he's
Speaker 1: a young adult and listening to Chesley and like as
Speaker 1: we tapped into those accomplishments, I'm realizing I need to
Speaker 1: talk to him more about his mental health and that
Speaker 1: connection of just because it looks like a failure, just
Speaker 1: because it looks unsuccessful doesn't mean you are. Doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you have to sit there with that pain. There
Speaker 1: are things that you can do. Are you guys having
Speaker 1: those types of conversations with friends and family as far
Speaker 1: as mental health and just Greece in general. But I've
Speaker 1: been trying to do, probably not having as many end
Speaker 1: up conversations as we need to. But what I've done
Speaker 1: now is when I call a friend or message a friend,
Speaker 1: before I go into what's going on with me, the
Speaker 1: first thing I do is do you have space for this?
Speaker 1: What I realized is when I asked that now, people
Speaker 1: are very honest about do they have space and what's
Speaker 1: going on? And so I think no one ever expects
Speaker 1: to be asked that. We're also used to pick it
Speaker 1: up the phone and somebody going I need this. And
Speaker 1: so before I even start, I'm like, hey, do you
Speaker 1: have space to talk? Like mental space, physical space? Time?
Speaker 1: And I appreciate it when I received it in return,
Speaker 1: because it gives me. It gives me permission to say
Speaker 1: not today, like I know, and the next ten to
Speaker 1: twelve days, I'm not gonna be a lot of good
Speaker 1: to anybody. I'm getting very close to my son's birthday,
Speaker 1: and his birthday is also the day he died. It's
Speaker 1: like a double edged sword, right right, And so I
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna be very appreciative of someone just saying
Speaker 1: do you have the mental capacity to listen? And the
Speaker 1: answer maybe no, and that's okay. One thing I noticed
Speaker 1: about April she didn't have one regret, right, and then
Speaker 1: Chesley confirmed it, like, Mom, you did it all right,
Speaker 1: You did it all right. You were always there, even
Speaker 1: when you didn't know I needed you, you were there.
Speaker 1: And so she doesn't have any regrets. And this episode
Speaker 1: makes me go, I don't want to have that regret.
Speaker 1: So Car applaud you for having those conversations with your
Speaker 1: son because they are scary, because I ain't gonna lie
Speaker 1: stuff happens. We just we're scared. We're like, oh lord,
Speaker 1: we can't of words. We're gonna open today and then
Speaker 1: we're dealing with our own stuff. But definitely want to
Speaker 1: have more conversations with our children about this. That's good.
Speaker 1: And you have three boys, what are y'all talking about?
Speaker 1: With mental health? We definitely are on that topic a
Speaker 1: lot because I have learned so much. It's my duty
Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm not just making sure eye
Speaker 1: heal because when we lost my brother there, you know,
Speaker 1: that was their favorite uncle. My oldest son, who is two,
Speaker 1: he has his face on his arm. He has a
Speaker 1: big tattoo of his uncle's face and his nickname with Shine.
Speaker 1: We all have Shine tattoos. Having that conversation with them
Speaker 1: was a muss because they are boys. What we've had
Speaker 1: to experience with our young men within the world. I
Speaker 1: had to have that conversation with them and letting them
Speaker 1: know that it's okay to be emotional, because we teach
Speaker 1: our boys that it's not okay to be emotional. There's
Speaker 1: so many things that you both have said that resonate
Speaker 1: with me and this episode and the fact that your
Speaker 1: family Angie has tattoos of Shine, and your oldest son
Speaker 1: has the tattoo of his uncle, and there was their
Speaker 1: favorite uncle, and they have memories that you guys literally
Speaker 1: have on your body so you won't forget. April shared
Speaker 1: that she feared forgetting the aspect of her daughter, you know,
Speaker 1: the things that were special to her, and has passes
Speaker 1: that they may fade. But Jada said something really impactful.
Speaker 1: When I was a young woman in my early twenties,
Speaker 1: I lost a very close girlfriend similarly the way that
Speaker 1: you lost your daughter. I will say that the memories
Speaker 1: may not stay burned in your mind, but the thing
Speaker 1: that never leaves is the love. Has that been your experience, Angie, Yes,
Speaker 1: it has. Tears are good. Tears are good. That was
Speaker 1: one of the things that I've when I first started
Speaker 1: agreement and just learning how to deal with it. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to forget him. I didn't want to forget
Speaker 1: him because time was going on. And I remember the
Speaker 1: first time I forgot it was the second anniversary of
Speaker 1: his death, and I almost forgot the date, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I almost let that day
Speaker 1: get past me, and I was so hard on my Luckily,
Speaker 1: the spirit brought it to me, but came to me
Speaker 1: just in time, because if I hadn't missed it, I
Speaker 1: really would have been feeling some type of way. But
Speaker 1: those things, you know, my tattoo and and my boys,
Speaker 1: those are things that helped me. I think about his
Speaker 1: crazy personality, what some of the goals that we had
Speaker 1: planning to do together because he was supposed to be
Speaker 1: my mating, this man for the salon. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about ain't no walls because he
Speaker 1: was supposed to been doing that. Right, thinking about those
Speaker 1: kind of things and kind of taking it that way
Speaker 1: where I know now even if I did forget the date.
Speaker 1: Even if I did forget his birthday, I look at
Speaker 1: things from a spiritual standpoint now and his date is gone.
Speaker 1: He has a new date now, he has the spiritual
Speaker 1: date with God now. So it's okay if I may
Speaker 1: have missed, you know, those days, because I celebrate him
Speaker 1: every day, and just just like with any holiday, we
Speaker 1: celebrate mother's days, not just for Mother's Day, we said
Speaker 1: for mothers every day. We celebrate each other every day.
Speaker 1: So it's okay if I forget a birthday or his
Speaker 1: death date because I celebrate him at free Day. Come on,
Speaker 1: it's maintaining the connection and you're talking to him in spirit,
Speaker 1: and that that's beautiful. Dr sad Tell, April and David
Speaker 1: shared about how grief can reappear suddenly and sometimes because
Speaker 1: of different triggers. I know you even have the whole,
Speaker 1: this end of the rainbow, which is beautiful, and I
Speaker 1: know you help other people in their journey, but I
Speaker 1: know triggers, you know, are part of it. Where do
Speaker 1: you consider yourself to be now on your grief journey?
Speaker 1: Some days I feel like it's still day one, and
Speaker 1: then sometimes I feel so far removed, especially now that
Speaker 1: my daughter is here right, and she's literally when I
Speaker 1: lay eyes on her, I realize why they call them
Speaker 1: rainbow babies. Joy that you thought could never ever return
Speaker 1: to your heart they bring back right. And she looks
Speaker 1: just like her big brother. They both look like My
Speaker 1: husband looks just like her big brother. And so it's
Speaker 1: a very weird space. Like there are days when I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that I didn't know I could be this happy,
Speaker 1: because this baby just it's like so amazing. And then
Speaker 1: there are days where I'm so grief stricken that I
Speaker 1: don't even feel like I deserve her, because Jaden should
Speaker 1: be here and they should be together. The triggers come
Speaker 1: from the weirdest places. When I found out I was pregnant,
Speaker 1: I was so overjoyed. We went through eight rounds and
Speaker 1: failed in betro between Jaden and Rotten right, and none
Speaker 1: of those were really triggering. But the first trigger once
Speaker 1: I was pregnant with Ryan was a family member who
Speaker 1: attended Jaden's funeral asked me, was I going to name
Speaker 1: the new baby Jaden? And I lost it. I lost it.
Speaker 1: It was like my body transported back to that hospital
Speaker 1: room on day one. I lost it, and I didn't
Speaker 1: get it back for a while, right, And so it's
Speaker 1: those little triggers, or like little things like I I
Speaker 1: can barely remember names someday, but put me in a
Speaker 1: room with kids, and I can tell you which boys
Speaker 1: are the exact age my son would be. Right now,
Speaker 1: I can look at a kid and be like, he's
Speaker 1: about to be six, isn't me? For a few weeks
Speaker 1: after I had Jaden, I was in the grocery store
Speaker 1: and a girl was there with a new born and
Speaker 1: I was like, when was he born? And before she
Speaker 1: could finish it, I said around about June thirteenth, and
Speaker 1: she was like, yeah, because that's exactly the size my
Speaker 1: son should be. Like I had this, Keen say, those
Speaker 1: are the triggers. Now, it's like the what if? They
Speaker 1: are so intertwined with all this immense joy that Ryan brings,
Speaker 1: but it's still there, and people really think that rainbow
Speaker 1: babies erase what came before Jaden was still born. Every
Speaker 1: failed round up in betro is essentially a miscarriage. Those
Speaker 1: eight failed pregnancy still travel with us. Even though she
Speaker 1: brings this a miss joy, there's an immense amount of
Speaker 1: grief that preceded her that is still here and so
Speaker 1: it's literally I live a daily balancing act. That's where
Speaker 1: I'm at now. Just know that I am sending you
Speaker 1: amazing amounts of love and energy and light. It has
Speaker 1: just been the most amazing, as car would say, successful
Speaker 1: time with the two of you. Dr Shambless and Angie,
Speaker 1: thank you so very much for spending time with us.
Speaker 1: This episode was just it was hard, it was heavy,
Speaker 1: but it was so needed and necessary right. It was
Speaker 1: just a gift to all of us. And I just
Speaker 1: appreciate Jada and Gammy and Willow being in a place
Speaker 1: where they could give us this opportunity to see the
Speaker 1: vulnerability and see that there's an opportunity even in the
Speaker 1: midst of pain and sorrow and grief, that we can
Speaker 1: learn and still grow. So thank you all for sharing
Speaker 1: with us. Absolutely, we dug deep. I'm so glad that
Speaker 1: we had the chance to go dive deep with you ladies.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming to this virtual red table.
Speaker 1: What an amazing raw discussion, like powerful, So grateful to
Speaker 1: our guests for openly sharing because they were amazing. We're
Speaker 1: gonna take a short break right now, and when we return,
Speaker 1: we'll share our top five takeaways from this episode. This
Speaker 1: is the most fun time car Are you ready drop bro?
Speaker 1: Please ready spots Bob, Let's go. I love it. Tracy
Speaker 1: and Carr's top five thoughts. Listen, y'all know this is
Speaker 1: the part of the show where we speed through five
Speaker 1: thoughts slash takeaways from the episode. Let's kick it off.
Speaker 1: The number five, Tracy. Number five, you can't always see
Speaker 1: external proof of internal struggles. Oh that's a deep one.
Speaker 1: Let's get it. Number four. Everyone's grief can look different. Listen.
Speaker 1: We talked about that with our guests. Honor where people are.
Speaker 1: And you know what I have learned to say, Cara,
Speaker 1: when someone is in the midst of grief, I just say,
Speaker 1: honor how you feel and honor where you are. You know.
Speaker 1: Number three, check in on your strong friends. We're all
Speaker 1: taught to wear masks. You really just never know when
Speaker 1: someone is experiencing high functioning depression. This is new for us.
Speaker 1: This is new, and I'm gonna actually make a task
Speaker 1: to actually dive in a little bit, not be invasive.
Speaker 1: But normally I'll say you know, you're good and people
Speaker 1: say yeah, and they kind of keep going. We're gonna
Speaker 1: just ask again, and I want to annoy you. I
Speaker 1: want to make it weird. I want to tell you
Speaker 1: I love you too, because we just gotta ask before
Speaker 1: it's too late. Write listen. I used to a lot
Speaker 1: of people all the time, and that you know six successful.
Speaker 1: That actually came out closer to my time with the
Speaker 1: whole suicidal thing, because I was lying saying I was fine.
Speaker 1: So I started to say I'm feeling successful because success
Speaker 1: looked different every day. So that's where that definitely came from.
Speaker 1: Number two. Even if it's a loved one who was struggling,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you've done something wrong. Chelsea's text
Speaker 1: to her mom said, you've done nothing wrong and you've
Speaker 1: done everything right. I think that was probably the biggest
Speaker 1: piece of closure. She knew her mother needed, so that
Speaker 1: was beautiful. She took her captive heart and released it. Yes,
Speaker 1: there was no room for doubt. She had it in writing.
Speaker 1: It was something she could see and read and now
Speaker 1: she can keep. That was hard, though. That was definitely
Speaker 1: a number two and number one caa you don't have
Speaker 1: to hold on to grief to remember those you love.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's the one I mean, that's the truth
Speaker 1: you don't have you can hold onto the memory reads.
Speaker 1: Thank you for our guests, because they gave us some
Speaker 1: great memories about their loved ones that they have lost,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that they were able to hold
Speaker 1: onto those memories, because some people may let it go
Speaker 1: or choose to feel like they can't focus on the
Speaker 1: happy things because it's not a happy time anymore, and
Speaker 1: that's not true. We want to know how you're feeling
Speaker 1: about this new season of Red Table Talk. We are
Speaker 1: open to talk about just about anything with you all,
Speaker 1: so sending your questions so we can talk about them
Speaker 1: right here at our virtual red table at Let's red
Speaker 1: Table that at red table talk dot com. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening. Karen and I are grateful to you,
Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that you subscribe on
Speaker 1: I Heard Radio app and please rate this podcast on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast. We need a five. We'll be back next
Speaker 1: week for another episode of Let's Red Table. There a
Speaker 1: big thank you to our executive producers Jada P. Kitt Smith,
Speaker 1: Ellen Rackinton, and Falon Jethro And thank you to our
Speaker 1: producer Kyla Knee Ruth and our associate producers Maria Della
Speaker 1: Rosa and Yalanda Chow and Finally, thank you to our
Speaker 1: sound engineers, Calvin Bailiff and Devin Donahee. We love you guys.
Speaker 1: Thank you