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Speaker 1: Hm, I'm Manny, I'm Noah. This is Devin, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to no such thing, the show where we settle our

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Speaker 1: dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research. This

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Speaker 1: week I attempt fate by asking, does food poisoning actually exist? I?

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Speaker 2: No, there's no no such thing. No touch, thank touch,

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Speaker 2: thank touch, thank touch, Thank so.

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Speaker 1: This is a very old many no Devin discussion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've all heard the stories. Someone goes out to eat,

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Speaker 1: then they're running to the bathroom, they're calling out of

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Speaker 1: work sick. They say they have a bad case of

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Speaker 1: food poisoning. Must have been the nachos, bad fish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this has never happened to me. But now let me

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Speaker 1: be clear, I don't have a particularly strong constitution. I'm

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Speaker 1: also not very selective or picky where I eat. I'm

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Speaker 1: not checking the health ratings on the board. Sure, so

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Speaker 1: when I add these things up, food poisoning isn't real.

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Speaker 1: Or let me let me sayund it's a thrown around

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Speaker 1: altitude loosely for my liking. All right, if I need

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Speaker 1: to be diplomatic.

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Speaker 3: Were you're you're saying, we hear, we hear about food

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Speaker 3: poisoning more often than it happens.

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Speaker 1: I think, so I would.

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Speaker 4: Agree with because people, if you're going to call out

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Speaker 4: of work.

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Speaker 5: It's the easiest excuse I have food poison You don't

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Speaker 5: have to fake being sick beforehand to lead up to

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Speaker 5: lying about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't. You probably don't need to go

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Speaker 1: to a doctor.

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Speaker 4: No, probably because they're not going to do anything.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 4: No, Yeah, it's one day. You can come back the

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Speaker 4: next day.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about actually being sick. What are your experiences.

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Speaker 1: We don't need to get into details, but.

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Speaker 5: Now we can get into details because this is what

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Speaker 5: makes me so upset about saying I've had food poisoning

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Speaker 5: two to three times.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's not a fact.

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Speaker 4: No, or you know, you know, I feel he's going

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Speaker 4: to be.

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Speaker 1: There always, maybe every eight weeks. No, No, it's like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing now?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 5: What makes me upset about you saying it's not real

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Speaker 5: is that food poisoning is probably the worst sickness you

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Speaker 5: can have, you know what, A feeling like I want

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Speaker 5: to die, Yeah all the time, because I've gotten food poisoning.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes when you're sick, it's like, oh I get to relax, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: home watching It's just miserable. You have like the shakes. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I hate throwing up. It's the worst thing in the

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Speaker 5: world throwing up.

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Speaker 4: Oh wait, wait, we got to talk about this real quick.

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Speaker 4: Growing up.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what the hell this is about.

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Speaker 7: Set it up.

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Speaker 4: Growing up.

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Speaker 5: As kids, sometimes you get sick and you gotta throw up. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 5: when we throw out, what do we do? We get

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Speaker 5: up and you go throw up? What are you throwing up?

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Speaker 3: In the toilet?

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Speaker 4: Okay, in the toilet, right, not in the sink. We're

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Speaker 4: not getting things we cook with to throw up into.

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Speaker 4: Some people get bowls or or pots. These are these

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Speaker 4: are things that that they to hold.

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Speaker 3: The vomit, yes, and then they put it in the toilet.

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Speaker 4: Would be I don't know what they do with it.

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Speaker 1: This is what it would be like. Let me speak

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Speaker 1: for my probably eating it later. It would be like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I have I have a tummy. Yeah, I'm six years old. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm getting ready for bed, and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the plastic bowl and that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: my case. I might not make it to the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: These are basically storage bowls.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So let's break it down for these.

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Speaker 1: Aren't like, it's not like a cereal bull.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what is it?

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Speaker 5: It's like a plastic What are you putting in it

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Speaker 5: when you're not throwing up into it?

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Speaker 1: Pretty much nothing? Honestly, other bowls like it's.

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Speaker 5: So, this is the thing I've learned, but over the

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Speaker 5: last couple of years is that in the white community,

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Speaker 5: they throw up into containers that they event.

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Speaker 3: It's not just it's a community.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they have like they're like, that's the that's the

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Speaker 5: pot that we would throw up in and then also

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Speaker 5: cook our stupid.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that the bull thing bothers you so much

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Speaker 1: because it's like, you don't think it's you don't think

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Speaker 1: someone can wash the ball, like you don't trust and

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Speaker 1: I know that.

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Speaker 4: People could wash the ball. I understand that.

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Speaker 1: You people don't even wash their bodies.

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Speaker 5: I know you can sanitize things. To me, it's just

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Speaker 5: like there are other did you not have trash cans

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Speaker 5: in your home?

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Speaker 3: My mom would beat my ass if I throw up

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Speaker 3: in a bowl. But I can understand this from the

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Speaker 3: perspective of like it's easier to I'm gonna wake up

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Speaker 3: and I'm about to throw up, and I need to

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Speaker 3: turn okay, but not putting something.

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Speaker 5: Near the garbage cans. He's admitted to garbage cans, and

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Speaker 5: it's the bull is not the only container.

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Speaker 1: It is easier. It's it's a bowl, so it's easy.

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Speaker 1: There's more. Yeah, I think I'm a I'm a baby basically.

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Speaker 1: I think you a fifteen doing.

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Speaker 4: Just think it's disgusting to throw up into a pot.

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Speaker 4: That's crazy. It's like the fact, this is the cleanup

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 1: And then you, you know, wash it with lisol and

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Speaker 1: other stuff. It's just like anything else at that point.

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Speaker 1: There's disgusting leftover food all the time.

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Speaker 4: That's food.

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Speaker 5: It's not my throw up. Well, I don't want to

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Speaker 5: see my throw up in any container.

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Speaker 1: Something to come around.

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Speaker 3: I mean, your your your vomits, Your vomit is your

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Speaker 3: food with like a little bit of a mile I

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Speaker 3: guess sometime food plus.

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Speaker 5: Okay, But y'all are acting like you don't have other options. No,

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Speaker 5: I know in that versus on my bed. Sure, I'll

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Speaker 5: throw up in that.

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Speaker 1: Is essentially that's what we're saying.

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Speaker 5: You have one bowl that you would use, right, It's

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Speaker 5: not even like they're rotating the containers that.

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Speaker 1: Worse, wouldn't that be worse for you. If now there's

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Speaker 1: twenty bowls that are thrown up, I think is worse

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Speaker 1: by your argument you have a dedicated bowl, Yes.

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Speaker 4: You should have a dedicated bowl that you're not cooking it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I basically said that.

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Speaker 4: No, but the people I'm not talking about you.

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Speaker 1: Specifically, Okay, well, you're attacking me.

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Speaker 5: But there are other whites on the internet saying this

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Speaker 5: is the pot or bowl that we would throw up

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Speaker 5: into and also make super whatever with.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think I don't think. I think we're talking

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Speaker 3: in circles at this point. I want to hear from

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Speaker 3: I want to hear from the listeners.

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Speaker 4: If you had yeah, if your family had sick, did.

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Speaker 3: You have a dedicated vomit container.

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Speaker 4: Bowl that you also made food in?

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Speaker 3: Okay, that you also used.

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Speaker 5: Not just like a bucket or or a bucket, have

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Speaker 5: a bucket in your.

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Speaker 4: Home, use a bucket?

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Speaker 1: All right, all right, I think we're done.

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Speaker 3: You said you've had food poisoning two to three times times.

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Speaker 1: Do you have an idea of the culprit?

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Speaker 5: So one time it was it was a bowl place,

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Speaker 5: it was a Mediterranean bowl.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know.

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Speaker 5: It may have been like a cavo or something got sponsor.

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Speaker 4: It was one of and it's this was before it

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Speaker 4: was crazy.

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Speaker 1: It was too crazy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a little nutty.

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Speaker 4: So it was like it wasn't even something I considered

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Speaker 4: to be risky.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and once again, this is what I think gave

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Speaker 5: it to me, because you know, the classic food poisoning

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Speaker 5: thing is you get food posoning and you go through

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Speaker 5: all the day until you ate. Recently, you're like, that's

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Speaker 5: the no one, that's norm When that was out of

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Speaker 5: the ordinary, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Only a year ago.

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Speaker 3: On my way back from LA I landed at like

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Speaker 3: eleven or midnight, but I was really hungry, and I

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Speaker 3: went to a bodego on my way home and got

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Speaker 3: like a buffalo chicken saying, which is like a hero,

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Speaker 3: and ate it probably thirty to forty five minutes later. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that is when I was like Kevin, it was coming

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Speaker 3: right out of me. I was on the toilet forever.

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Speaker 3: I had like a cold sweat and shivers and stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But here's the interesting part. The next day, I was

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Speaker 3: shocked at how I could have gotten so sick from

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Speaker 3: that so quickly.

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Speaker 5: That's what I was going to say, Man, I didn't

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Speaker 5: want to call you out, but that seems a little

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Speaker 5: too fast. Thirty forty five minutes, I asked my doctor,

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Speaker 5: even in your body yet she was saying.

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Speaker 3: That the culprit could be anything you've eaten in the

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Speaker 3: last ten days. I think we are so attuned to

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Speaker 3: thinking that it's something I just ate that got me sick.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't believe that.

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Speaker 3: So I wonder, like, all right, maybe you have a

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Speaker 3: regular sickness and you just finished eating and then you

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Speaker 3: thought it was that thing.

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Speaker 5: I can see the last I'll give you two. I'm

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Speaker 5: not getting food boys nine days ago.

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Speaker 4: That is out. It came out already.

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Speaker 5: If we're going to say that, then there was one

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Speaker 5: time in Toronto, I ate a pizza with eggplant on it.

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Speaker 5: Sure something was going on with it. It was one

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Speaker 5: of the things where I was as I was eating it,

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Speaker 5: I was like something, Oh, this feels like I like eggplant,

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Speaker 5: but this is this is not something is up. Went

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Speaker 5: in the bathroom at the pizza place. I'm still there,

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Speaker 5: threw up. So that's you talk about thirty forty five

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Speaker 5: minutes about mid eating.

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Speaker 3: Well you use zero minutes if you didn't eat anything

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Speaker 3: in that moment. You probably would have went to the

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Speaker 3: bathroom and threw up.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 5: No, I was eating the pizza. The pizza made me

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Speaker 5: feel sick, and then I threw up. It was and

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Speaker 5: it was a response to.

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Speaker 1: The Okay, but I know what happened after you ate

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Speaker 1: the pizza. But maybe there's something in something that's inside

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Speaker 1: of you before the pizza. The pizza is just kind

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Speaker 1: of pushing it. Three doctors right here, you know, and

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Speaker 1: that's just spring it. You're blaming the pizza the new pizza,

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Speaker 1: but maybe it was the old thing.

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Speaker 4: The pizza made me feel.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that's how you feel, that's what you think.

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Speaker 8: The fact.

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Speaker 4: Now you're telling me how I facts.

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Speaker 3: Don't care about your feelings.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, as I was eating the pizza, I was like,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, this pizza is making me feel naice.

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Speaker 1: Because and then it's interacting with what say okay, it

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Speaker 1: was the trigger.

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Speaker 4: I would put the pizza.

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Speaker 5: Down and say, okay, I'm not I'm gonna not touch it,

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Speaker 5: and I felt Okay.

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Speaker 4: The reason I'm telling that story is I didn't think

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Speaker 4: it was food what it was.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were trying to say it was You

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Speaker 1: don't think I had a reaction.

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Speaker 4: To the pizza. But it's not food poisoning, So.

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Speaker 5: You wouldn't call that food poison no, because how was

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Speaker 5: it poison It didn't give it didn't have the time

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Speaker 5: to poison me.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think that is?

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Speaker 5: I just had some sort of reaction to the ingredient,

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Speaker 5: like allergy, maybe an allergy.

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Speaker 3: I'll be honest, Like, I know when you get a cold,

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Speaker 3: what makes you sick? Like you're getting like if it's

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Speaker 3: like an infection in some way or like a bug.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what food poisoning? How you get sick

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Speaker 3: from that?

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Speaker 4: Is it?

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Speaker 3: Like, like what undercooked food that's causing your body to

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Speaker 3: react badly?

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Speaker 1: That's what I want to find out.

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Speaker 5: I think it could be undercooked, right, I think it

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Speaker 5: could be prepared in a not a good way, so

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Speaker 5: cross contamination.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, I'll say this. I know I'm

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Speaker 1: a skeptic, but like I I'm a big fan of

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Speaker 1: Gordon Ramsey. I've watched many of his shows, hundreds of

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Speaker 1: hours of his reporting, and watching that, I am like,

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Speaker 1: there's some funky stuff going on in kitchens. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: around the world.

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Speaker 4: Frankly, raw meat next to the vegetables next to.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, I understand how this can happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if it happens, If.

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Speaker 4: It were to happen, I want to believe what you like,

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Speaker 4: if I did it.

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Speaker 1: Food prep obviously the source farms, Yeah yeah, I've seen

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Speaker 1: some videos from these farms. Doesn't seem that clean.

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Speaker 3: No, remember when Chipotle had the big was it salmonella outbreak?

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Speaker 3: To me, that's food poisoning, Like you consume that and

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Speaker 3: then you get sick from it. Yeah, but that's not

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Speaker 3: happening as often as people are saying they get food

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Speaker 3: poisoned for recalls that stuff.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a different thing. That's like a recall that

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Speaker 5: someone messed up a whole batch of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, see that. I think that's where things are complicate,

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Speaker 1: because of course we're like boris Head last year. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's these things where there's nationwide recalls and all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you then it's like, okay, they're tracing this back

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Speaker 1: to the source and they know this is it contamination.

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Speaker 1: And then there's other stuff where it's like okay, me

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Speaker 1: and my buddy go to the socco place, Yeah we

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Speaker 1: get the same thing. He's having a problem, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not why is that.

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Speaker 4: Because not everyone.

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Speaker 5: This is also the thing with food poisoning is that

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Speaker 5: two people could get the same exact meal and have

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Speaker 5: different reactions to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly. One more question, do you guys wash your chicken?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 5: I hate the same as on camera, but I don't

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Speaker 5: because I notice is controversial and in the black community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah so sometimes.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but you're not supposed to wash your chicken because

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Speaker 5: if there is something on it, you're just spreading it,

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Speaker 5: you're not actually cleaning it.

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Speaker 4: Let's say I used to do it because that's the

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Speaker 4: way I was taught.

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Speaker 5: So you get vinegar and lemon juice, and you like

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Speaker 5: kind of give it like a little bath in the bowl.

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Speaker 3: As far as black community misconceptions go, that one's up

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Speaker 3: there with we don't need to wear sunscreen. Yes, got

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Speaker 3: my ass fried a couple of times by following that advice.

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Speaker 5: We don't need to wash the chicken, y'all. I know

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Speaker 5: we're gonna get the emails. It is okay, I haven't

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Speaker 5: been washing chicken for years. I have not gotten food poisoning.

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Speaker 1: So I want to find out what is food poisoning?

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, is it real?

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Speaker 1: That's my second question? How common is it? Okay, why

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Speaker 1: don't I get it? How can we stay safe?

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Speaker 4: What if thing's so void?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll find out after the break. Okay, we're back.

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Speaker 4: I'm Manny, I'm Noah Devin.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about food poisoning. I'm skeptical of how

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Speaker 1: common it is. I feel like it's used to liberally,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering why I don't get it personally. So

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Speaker 1: I did some research. I had some perfect phone calls

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Speaker 1: with some experts in the field. First up, I spoke

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Speaker 1: to doctor Ben Chapman.

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Speaker 9: I'm a professor and food safety extension specialist and department

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Speaker 9: head at North Carolina State University, and the area that

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Speaker 9: I focus on is food born illness and food safety,

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Speaker 9: especially around restaurants, retail stores, and consumer homes.

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Speaker 1: And more importantly arguably, he has his own podcast called

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Speaker 1: Food Safety Talk. So this is the guy to.

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Speaker 4: Talk to him.

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Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, So first up, I asked him to explain

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Speaker 1: what food poisoning actually is.

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Speaker 9: Food poisoning technically is like one slice where someone eats

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Speaker 9: something and there's a toxin in it and you get

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Speaker 9: really sick, really quickly, like within six or eight hours.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 9: Back in the seventies, or eighties where a whole bunch

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Speaker 9: of people went to a wedding and the next day

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Speaker 9: everybody showed up at the emergency room or at their

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Speaker 9: primary carreer doctor and then started talking like, oh, what

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Speaker 9: did you have the chicken?

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Speaker 7: Did you have the fish? Whatever?

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Speaker 9: Right, Like, that's kind of the common look at poisoning.

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Speaker 9: Food born illness is a little more nuanced. We see

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Speaker 9: outbreaks now that might be like as few as three

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Speaker 9: or four people, and they might be in four different

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Speaker 9: states or in two different countries, And that has I

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Speaker 9: would say, broadened the view of food born illness because

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Speaker 9: it might be E. Coli or samonella or listeria. Those

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Speaker 9: are kind of very common bacteria that we hear about,

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Speaker 9: and those often take you know, maybe forty eight or

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Speaker 9: seventy two hours after eating something to actually start even

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Speaker 9: having symptoms, and it might be another week before someone

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Speaker 9: gets sick enough to go to the doctor, depending on

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Speaker 9: what the on what the illness is.

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Speaker 5: The timing here makes a lot more sense. I know,

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Speaker 5: Manny before it's talking about his doctor's telling me what

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Speaker 5: ten days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she was saying, like it could have been anything

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Speaker 3: in the past ten days.

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Speaker 5: Six to eight hours. That feels like the perfect times.

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Speaker 5: That's when I get food poisoning. That's the time table

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Speaker 5: to start settling in. Yeah, for dinner, and then the

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Speaker 5: middle of the night you're like, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: I mean, even lasteria can incubate for seventy days, which

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Speaker 1: is really crazy. It's not as easy as just going like,

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Speaker 1: what's the last thing you ate, which is obviously what

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Speaker 1: most people would do instinctively. We want to be something

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Speaker 1: you had literally months ago. Yeah, so I asked, what's

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Speaker 1: actually happening in the body during food poisoning. That's him

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Speaker 1: to go Osmosa Jones mode.

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Speaker 9: Yes, we start with the pathogenic KEY coli, and the

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Speaker 9: one that we worry about the.

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Speaker 7: Most is E. Coli on seven seven.

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Speaker 9: So essentially, what's happening is someone eats food that has

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Speaker 9: the pathogen in it. The pathogen passes through the stomach

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Speaker 9: and ends up getting to the intestines and that's the

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Speaker 9: right place for infection for that put to bacteria, and

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Speaker 9: the intestines are a really good environment for E. Coli

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Speaker 9: because we have nonpathogenic E. Coli in our body at

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Speaker 9: all times. Without having E. Coli in our intestines, we would.

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Speaker 7: Not digest food correctly. So we have this like kind.

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Speaker 9: Of rogue type of bacteria that's there that lives amongst

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Speaker 9: all the other E. Coli can then move in and

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Speaker 9: out of cells pretty easy, infects as it grows. A

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Speaker 9: byproduct of its growth, it's essentially the waste from the bacteria,

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Speaker 9: and so that toxin ends up going to the kidneys

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Speaker 9: and then damages kidney cells or ends up in the

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Speaker 9: bloodstream in the eyes and can create blood clots because

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Speaker 9: the body is trying to attack this toxin, and can

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Speaker 9: lead to blindness.

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Speaker 1: I asked how common this is, Going back to my question,

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Speaker 1: people throw this around all the time. I had food poisoning,

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Speaker 1: this that whatever.

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Speaker 9: We estimate that they're around forty eight to fifty million

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Speaker 9: cases of food borne illness in the US. If you

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Speaker 9: went across the population and ask people whether they had

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Speaker 9: an irregular bowel movement or if they felt nauseous, how

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00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,640
Speaker 9: many times a year that might happen, you might see

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Speaker 9: the population might say three or four times a year.

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Speaker 9: I have that, but did not equate it to anything.

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Speaker 9: It's just I had the twenty four hour flu. And

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Speaker 9: what we don't know is how much of that is food.

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Speaker 7: Born and how much is not.

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Speaker 9: On average, somewhere in between one and six and one

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Speaker 9: in five people are going to get food borne illness

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Speaker 9: a year in the US, and the vast majority won't

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Speaker 9: equate it to something that they've eaten or maybe never

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Speaker 9: will be able to solve that down outbreak. It was

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Speaker 9: just something they were exposed to in the food supply.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty common.

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Speaker 3: This might be the earliest and in the episode's playtime

402
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Speaker 3: where the host has been wrong, I.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna you know, I can't play

404
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 1: too long.

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Speaker 5: I'll say too like I've had food poisoning, but I've

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Speaker 5: never gone to the doctor for it.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm unreported.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming these numbers are more than just from the

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Speaker 1: hospital surveys and in real studies. But yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: you could easily even if you were surveyed, you still might.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't say necessarily you had food poisoning or food

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Speaker 1: born illness. Yeah, you might just be like, yeah, the

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00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: stomach bug or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My biggest question personally, well am I not getting it?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 9: Genetics is one how bacteria and viruses kind of attack

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Speaker 9: our body. There's lots of different ways. It really could

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Speaker 9: come down to the shape of the receptors on a

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Speaker 9: specific cell in my body is different from yours, and

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Speaker 9: that that virus only wants to unlock that receptor. We

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Speaker 9: could be eating the same food in genetics wise, I'm

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Speaker 9: more predisposed to it than you are.

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Speaker 7: Then there's a.

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Speaker 9: Whole other area of how much and what kind of

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Speaker 9: bacteria or virus is there. There aren't a lot of

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Speaker 9: foods that we eat that I would say are evenly homogeneous,

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Speaker 9: the exact same amount of the same thing all over it,

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Speaker 9: Like every episode of tastes the same because it's the

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Speaker 9: same all through. But we don't eat a lot of

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Speaker 9: foods that are like that. Every bite is a little

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Speaker 9: bit different. And where bacteria and viruses go is also

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Speaker 9: not homogeneous, so they could be concentrated in certain areas.

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Speaker 9: The type of food we eat, how much of it,

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Speaker 9: that's also a big factor. And then I would say

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Speaker 9: the third big factor is whether either of us have

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Speaker 9: been exposed to that bacteria or virus before and we

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Speaker 9: have acquired immunity.

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Speaker 7: And there's some really really.

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Speaker 9: Good historical data on this, like people who grew up

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Speaker 9: on dairy farms, for instance, are way way, way less

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Speaker 9: susceptible to EQUALIE contamination because they lived in an environment

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Speaker 9: that where there was equali all the time, and maybe

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Speaker 9: they got sick and exposed when they were two or

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Speaker 9: three years old and they have immunity to it because

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Speaker 9: of that.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot in there. But it did answer

448
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 3: one of my burning questions, which was, you know, if

449
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 3: Devin and I split a burrito, is it possible that

450
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,400
Speaker 3: he could get food poisoning from it and I couldn't.

451
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 3: And the answers yes, it seems like, yeah.

452
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,239
Speaker 1: So it could be because you got lucky with your

453
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,159
Speaker 1: bites or simply you're built different. Yeah, which seems to

454
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 1: be my life. But yeah, yeah, I think so safe

455
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: to say. So. Now, I did ask about when people

456
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 1: do react immediately, because he said, you know, most of

457
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 1: these have incubation periods that are at least a few hours,

458
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: if not days or weeks or months. So I asked,

459
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,159
Speaker 1: you know, what is it when people do react immediately

460
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: like you mentioned with your egg plant pizza.

461
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 4: To be fair, I said, I did not think it was.

462
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let me be clear, but you said you

463
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: were eating it and you were like, this feels allthing

464
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 1: right right before you even had a.

465
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 4: Reaction, yes, right, and my mouth felt weird.

466
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,640
Speaker 9: Probably the number one misconception is that the last thing

467
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 9: I ate is what made me sick, right, And you

468
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 9: kind of hear it all the time in conversations where

469
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 9: it's like, I'm not going to eat at X restaurant

470
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 9: again because man, I was terrible. I went home and

471
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 9: all night I you know, I had diarrhea or vomit

472
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 9: or whatever. The misconception there is that most food born

473
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 9: illnesses take at least twenty four hours before like from

474
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 9: exposure to test symptoms, and so you've got to think

475
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 9: back to like, well, what I e two days ago,

476
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 9: and oh, like, should I've eaten a lot of stuff

477
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 9: over the last two days. That being said, there are

478
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 9: cases where people get sick very quickly, within thirty minutes.

479
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 9: It's just not bacterial or viral. It's a chemical contaminant.

480
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 9: We've seen cases where someone may have inadvertently used like

481
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 9: a cleaning chemical in food. And the difference there is

482
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 9: there's often reports of it tasted bad too. Yeah, like

483
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 9: there was something I detected sensory wise that was off

484
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 9: with this food and it led to an illness.

485
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 7: That's like usually the case. So if it was a

486
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 7: toxin or a chemical. Yeah, it could be very quick.

487
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 3: So Devin innocent, vindicated, but not for the reason we thought.

488
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

489
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, it's food poisoning in a sense,

490
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: just not your yeah plastic, you.

491
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 3: Got poisoned from food, but yeah, not necessarily bacterial.

492
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: So now I want to take a step back. We've

493
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: kind of gone deep inside the food poisoning process. Yeah,

494
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: but now I want to see how it spreads on

495
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: the larger spectrum, how these outbreaks occur. So after the break,

496
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: we find out where food borne illness comes from and

497
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: talk to a lawyer who took on a fast food

498
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 1: giant to change the game as we know it.

499
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: Mmmm.

500
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 8: Health officials say people infected with the E. Coli bacteria

501
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 8: maybe unknowingly infecting others. More than one hundred and fifty

502
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 8: people have become ill after eating tainted hamburger meat a

503
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 8: Jack in the Box restaurant in Idaho and Washington State.

504
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 7: One child has died.

505
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 6: My name is Bill Marler. I'm a food safety attorney

506
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 6: based on Bambridge Island, Washington, which is a ferry ride

507
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 6: away from Seattle. By the time the Jack the Marx

508
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 6: case was over, I knew more about food safety litigation.

509
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 6: I knew more about E. Coli than you know any

510
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 6: lawyer in the world.

511
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: To sum it up very briefly, Jack in the Box

512
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: restaurants were linked to an equal lay outbreak in early

513
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three, the largest outbreak ever documented in

514
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: the US at the time.

515
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 6: Ultimately, there were over six hundred and fifty people sick,

516
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 6: and four children died. About seventy five suffered acute kidney failure.

517
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 6: Hundreds and hundreds of people were hospitalized. In many respects,

518
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 6: you could liken the Seattle area were like a war zone.

519
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 6: You know, there were more kids in the hospital than

520
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 6: there were dialysis machines.

521
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: It turns out Jack in the Box wasn't consistently cooking

522
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: their hamburgers to the recommended internal temperature. There was a

523
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: major investigation, and Bill Marler's lawsuit on behalf of the

524
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: victims secured what was at the time the largest ever

525
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: settlement related to food borne illness, over fifty million dollars.

526
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: It also led to a few major food safety outcomes.

527
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: Freshly inaugurated President Bill Clinton ushered in new regulations requiring

528
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: the USDA to test samples of RAGROUNB for equal one

529
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: to five to seven, which was now declared in adults.

530
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: That means if it's found in the product, it cannot

531
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: be sold. The FDA increased recommended internal temperatures for hamburgers

532
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: from one hundred and fifty five degrees fahrenheit and one

533
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: to five to seven. Infection became a reportable disease, meaning

534
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: all cases must be reported to the government to then

535
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: be monitored for a larger outbreak. Due to the work

536
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: of Bill Marler and others, E Coli outbreaks connected to

537
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: beef in the US have effectively gone down to zero.

538
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: That's in a nutshell Bill's story and how he got

539
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: into it, and now he's just a food safety guy.

540
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: So I asked, from a legal standpoint, how Bill goes

541
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: about tracing an outbreak, And things have changed a lot

542
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: since the nineties, just the technology and science behind it.

543
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 6: So I spend a lot of my time doing the

544
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 6: epidemiology of figuring out an outbreak. I think I may

545
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 6: be the only lawyer in the world who has an epidemiologist,

546
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 6: and I actually have three on my staff. I kind

547
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 6: of look at ourselves as a health department with a

548
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 6: prosecuting attorney attached to it. We figure out can we

549
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 6: connect up this person, and then can we connect it

550
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 6: up to a product, And then my job is to

551
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 6: go after that company and make sure that they do

552
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 6: right by my client and don't poison people again. I

553
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 6: got called by a father of a child who had

554
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 6: a very severe about of equali. The kid's kidney function

555
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 6: he's four years old, is about forty percent right now,

556
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 6: so the likelihood of him losing his kidneys in his

557
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 6: teens is pretty high. He had whole genome sequencing done,

558
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 6: but he was not a match to anything. And the

559
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 6: public has access to this database where if you know

560
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 6: the genetic fingerprint number of that particular person, you can

561
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 6: plug it into a database and it'll populate a whole

562
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 6: genome sequence tree, so you can look to see whether

563
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 6: or not they're linked to anything. And here the kid

564
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 6: no outbreak. So I was like, well, that's just, you know, sucks,

565
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 6: and I can't figure this out. So I was talking

566
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 6: to the family and figuring out, like what other possible

567
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 6: potential sources there were, And I asked him if they

568
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 6: had any animals and he says, we had a dog,

569
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 6: and I'm like, well, what did you feed the dog?

570
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 6: And he said, well, we fed him Darwin raw dog food,

571
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 6: and I'm like, h Darwin raw dog food has had

572
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 6: problems in the past with bacterial contamination. So we had

573
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 6: it tested by an FDA certified lab and it came

574
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 6: back positive for E. Coli and two forms of salmonella.

575
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 6: E coli was a genetic match to the kid, and

576
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 6: that I turned that material over both to the company

577
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 6: and to the FDA, and the FDA did an investigation

578
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 6: concluded the same thing. I concluded that the cause of

579
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 6: the outbreak, or cause of this kid's illness was the

580
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 6: dog food. And you know it's likely that dog ate

581
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 6: the food, the dog licked the kid. You know, that

582
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 6: kind of stuff happened. So a lot of times I

583
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 6: figure these outbreaks out on my own.

584
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: We heard how the cole I and ground beef has

585
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: basically become a non issue now after the Jack in

586
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: the Box lawsuit. But there's a lot of frustration now

587
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: we haven't had the same level of action on other issues,

588
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: like salmonella in chicken, which is a common one you

589
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: hear about. Yeah, so here's Bill talking about that.

590
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 6: I've repeatedly been beating my head against the wall for

591
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 6: twenty years to try to get some movement there, but

592
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 6: you know, it's completely completely legal to sell salmonil attained chicken.

593
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 6: It's the rationale. Well, the housewives or the house husbands

594
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 6: nowadays are responsible for handling the product, like you know,

595
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 6: it's a nuclear weapon. Over half of salmonella cases in

596
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 6: the United States are caused by chicken. That's one point

597
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 6: three million Americans every are sickened by salmonilla.

598
00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 7: It's crazy.

599
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: How does the U stock up against Europe or elsewhere

600
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: in the world.

601
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 6: It's not like Europe has not had some significant outbreaks,

602
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 6: but you know, for salmonella, they just said, we just

603
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 6: won't have salmonella or camflo bacter, which is generally also

604
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 6: found with chicken. What they do in Europe is if

605
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 6: there's a flock of birds that have salmonella, they'll eradicate

606
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 6: that flock. It's not like we don't do that here.

607
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 6: We eradicate flocks all the time, but it's usually for

608
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 6: bird flu ye. But in you know, EU, UK they

609
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 6: eradicate flocks. They also vaccinate animals. We think that that's

610
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 6: too expensive. So what happens is you have to assume

611
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 6: that every chicken you buy in a grocery store is

612
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 6: contaminated with salmonella and and or cam flobactor or both,

613
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 6: and you're likely right, but you know, we could do

614
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 6: way more. We finally got a little piece of legislation

615
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 6: banning salmonella in certain chicken products that went into effect

616
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 6: in the Biden administration, and then the Trump administration killed it.

617
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 6: I remember years ago when the ecoli was listed as

618
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 6: adulter in the industry was like, Oh my god, Hamburger's

619
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 6: going to cost way too much.

620
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 4: It's like the world's going to fall. Oh my god,

621
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 4: it's terrible. It's terrible.

622
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 6: You know, it's consumers, they should deal with it. And

623
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 6: you know, it all worked out. There are tens of thousands,

624
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 6: maybe hundreds of thousands, and probably now by now millions

625
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 6: of people who did not get sick because of ecola

626
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 6: as an adulterate and increased cook temperatures on red meat.

627
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 6: It's crazy that you wouldn't sit that, sit back and

628
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 6: look at it and go, huh, maybe we should do

629
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 6: that too. But there's just so much inertia on the

630
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 6: part of industry, so much inertia on the part of

631
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 6: government to actually solve these problems. And I don't know,

632
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 6: I don't know there's a level of frustration that I

633
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 6: still have that I just uh, yeah, it's I yeah,

634
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 6: it's it's really sometimes very frustrating.

635
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such an uphill battle, I think when you're

636
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: trying to convince like a population to do something, but

637
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: your proof is that something won't happen if you do

638
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: it right, like he will, like they want to pass

639
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: better protections on this, on this kind of stuff, but

640
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: like you know, the proof would be that you didn't

641
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: get sick, and then you're just someone could be like, well,

642
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna get sick anyway. We're just lucky that

643
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: people don't really want raw or like rare chick the

644
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: way we do.

645
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: With a steak or something.

646
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: If someone goes to a restaurant at a steak or

647
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: a burger, like I know Noah enjoys a medium rare

648
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: even rare.

649
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the meat it's fine, hamburg the ground beach

650
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: is not really an issue so much. And then I

651
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: do ask kind of rapid fire to kind of go

652
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: through a bunch of these things because I was like,

653
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: I was scared to ask these guys if it's okay

654
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: for me to order our rare stick. We're gonna take

655
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: a quick break, and when we're back, we conclude our

656
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: episode with some rapid fire food safety questions. So I

657
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: went back to Ben Chapman, our food safety expert from

658
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: North Carolina State, to kind of run through a list

659
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: of problematic foods to see where he stands.

660
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 4: Sushi.

661
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 9: How big of a risk is that restaurants are required

662
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 9: to do parasite destruction in raw fish, specifically if it's

663
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 9: gonna be served raw, so that means that it's got

664
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 9: to be frozen usually or some other mechanism before consumption,

665
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 9: and parasites are the issue with sushi.

666
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: Next, like beef tartar or even just a very rare

667
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 1: steak or burger.

668
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 9: So beef tartar is just ground up meat, I would

669
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 9: say that's one of the most riskiest things you can eat,

670
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 9: and especially tartar, which if it was ground beef that

671
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 9: was sold in the US, that has a testing regime

672
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 9: associated with it to make sure before it's released that

673
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 9: there aren't pathogens in it. Tartar doesn't go through that.

674
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 9: You're starting with like a whole muscle and you're cutting

675
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 9: it up or grinding it and making it. Moving to

676
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 9: the next one that you mentioned, was like a rare steak.

677
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 9: I eat rare steak on a weekly basis. The pathogens

678
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 9: would be on the outside, so searing the muscle on

679
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 9: the inside, it's essentially sterile, and then undercooked or rare

680
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 9: hamburger is like somewhere in the middle where there's a

681
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 9: little bit of protection. When it comes to ground beef,

682
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 9: it's getting cooked a little bit, but who knows how much.

683
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 9: And so I'm a fan of temperature specifically, so I'm

684
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 9: looking for like one hundred and fifty five degrees fahrenheit.

685
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 9: If it's a steak, I'm probably cooking my steak to

686
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 9: like one hundred and twenty degrees. That very outside of

687
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 9: it is probably getting into four hundred and killing everything, Okay,

688
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 9: And then tartar is something that I think is really risky.

689
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: Next, I asked about oysters, because you know, once in

690
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: a while I see a story and it's like oysters

691
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: the most dangerous thing you can eat. Yeah, people just died. Yeah,

692
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, well, I see oysters all the

693
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: time from places that I don't think frankly should be

694
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: serving oysters. That's all year round, all this stuff. So

695
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I need I need this,

696
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: gotta tell me what's up.

697
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 9: Raw oysters are among the riskiest things that we have.

698
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 9: Many of the cases that we see when it comes

699
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 9: to oyster illnesses or things like the pathogens called vibrio.

700
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 9: Often people are predisposed to bibrial illnesses if they are aging,

701
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 9: if they are heavy drinkers, and they have liver issues,

702
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 9: and weirdly that is a factor for people getting sick

703
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 9: from raw oysters. Is someone who consumes a lot of

704
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 9: alcohol and then is exposing themselves to these pathogens.

705
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: So I have to style getting oysters, is what he's

706
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 4: telling me.

707
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: I think overall, you're okay, especially if you're not predisposed

708
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: per se on that aging And yeah, and if you're

709
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: I guess maybe the advice would be trying to find

710
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: oysters that are actually local and not shipped across the

711
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: country or something like that, so hopefully they're fresh. So yeah,

712
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about leftover rice. There's another one

713
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: where I was like, this one's just is crazy because

714
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: more than anything oysters. Of course, I believe people get

715
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: sick from this, but yeah, you see them all the time,

716
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: but it's not like an everyday occurrence. Left the rice

717
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: people are eating all the time.

718
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 4: I haere yesterday.

719
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a really big social media issue.

720
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

721
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 9: The entire leftover rice controversy or issues come from an

722
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 9: actual true story where someone got sick from eating leftover rice.

723
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 9: This the illness was associated with something called basill is serious.

724
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 9: The bacteria survives as a spore with dry rice, and

725
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 9: so most of our rice has basilli.

726
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 7: Is serious in it.

727
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 9: The spore wakes up during cooking, which is counterintuitive, right.

728
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 9: It has to be heat treated to essentially shock it awake.

729
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 9: And then if rice is stored incorrectly after cooking, it

730
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 9: can grow. And in fact, that is really the issue

731
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 9: with leftover rice. It has nothing to do with leftovers.

732
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 9: And and in fact, the case that drew this was

733
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 9: someone left rice on their countertop for two days after

734
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 9: making it and that's like not a good idea for

735
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 9: any food, and then took it and put it in

736
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 9: the refrigerator and a couple of days later ate it,

737
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 9: and the story became.

738
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 7: Well, they ate leftover rice.

739
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 9: It's like true, they did, but the leftover wasn't the

740
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 9: factor that it was post cooking leaving it on the countertop.

741
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 7: Yes, And so essentially yeah.

742
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 9: In that you're you provided the perfect environment for the

743
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 9: bacterial to grow. I eat a lot of leftover rice.

744
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 9: I will eat it on a weekly basis. I cook

745
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 9: rice and then I put it in the refrigerator right away,

746
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 9: and then I might eat leftover rice for a week afterwards.

747
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 9: So it's not a time factor once it's in my refrigerator.

748
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 9: It's really about how quickly I get it in the

749
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 9: drinder after I make it.

750
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: And the last one was about washing chicken.

751
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 4: Mmmmm.

752
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: So here's what Ben had to say about washing chicken.

753
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 7: We did a lot of research on this issue.

754
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 9: We actually brought people from the community in to prepare

755
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 9: chicken who identified themselves as someone who washes chicken, so

756
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 9: we better understand what happens during that process. And what

757
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 9: we've learned is why people wash chicken is because they

758
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 9: think that they're removing something. Some people think they're removing bacteria.

759
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 9: Some people think they're removing slime. Yeah, all of those

760
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 9: things are taken care of during the cooking process, and

761
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 9: so washing can only increase risk. When you're washing it,

762
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 9: you're taking the bacteria that is on the outside and

763
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 9: you are depositing it somewhere in your kitchen, whether it's

764
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 9: in your sink basin or outside of the sink. And

765
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 9: so the work that we did demonstrated that people who

766
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 9: do that can often.

767
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 7: Contaminate their sink, contaminate.

768
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 9: Other food that they're making along the same time, and

769
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 9: other places within their kitchen like spice bottles. So the

770
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 9: kind of message that's out there as don't wash your chicken,

771
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 9: which is really not a great message because people are like, well,

772
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 9: I wash my chicken, so why don't you tell me

773
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 9: how to do it safely?

774
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah?

775
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, And so it's it's more about like, if this

776
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 9: is something that you're gonna do, making sure that you

777
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 9: clean and sanitize your sink basin, which is the most

778
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 9: likely place to get contaminated because we do a lot

779
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 9: of other food related things in the sink, like rints

780
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 9: less for in a calendar, for instance, and so bacteria

781
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 9: that's in the basin can bounce up into that calendar,

782
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 9: which is what we saw in our study.

783
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Hopefully this helps. Before you get into our takeaways, I

784
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: do want to recommend a documentary that both Ben and

785
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: Bill are in.

786
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 7: Oh Wow.

787
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: It's on Netflix, and it's called Poisoned. The Dirty Truth

788
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: about Your Food this is my first step in my research,

789
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: and then I grabbed these guys from the documentary. It's

790
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: directed by Stephanie Sucked and it's based on a book

791
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: by the journalist Jeff Benedict. So I will say watching this,

792
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: it took me about three minutes of hearing Bill talk

793
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: before I was convinced I was pretty wrong about food

794
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: poison because it opens and you know, talking about all

795
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: these horrible stories. I was like, yeah, okay, this exists.

796
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, fair enough. Hey, we love someone who knows when

797
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: they're wrong and they can admit it.

798
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a beautiful thing about this podcast.

799
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: And also I'm not embarrassed. Yeah.

800
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: You know at the end of these episodes, when we

801
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: learn like this large amount of information, I always wonder

802
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: how much it's gonna change my life personally, And I

803
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 3: think this is the first time where like, actually, yeah,

804
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: I probably will. I've never really checked the temperature of

805
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: the chicken. I just kind of look at it and

806
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: it's like kind of looks done, and you know, I

807
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 3: might start I do have a thermometer, I might start

808
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: poking it. Yeah. And then on the opposite side of this,

809
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 3: like I do feel like a little I feel like

810
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 3: it's I feel safer getting rarer meats. Yeah, when I

811
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 3: go to a restaurant, so I might try something that.

812
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more just understanding what the actual risks you

813
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: should be worried about our overall. I feel like, yeah,

814
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: usually we talked to an expert and it's and they

815
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: tell us what's wrong with something, and I was like,

816
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: all right, great, thanks, I'm not gonna change let me

817
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: go back, let me go back my life. But this

818
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: one seems pretty important.

819
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is helpful.

820
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 5: I would say I was, you know, as someone a

821
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 5: food poisoning victim survivor survivor. Yes, sir, I thought your

822
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 5: premise was ridiculous. I did think people overestimated. So the

823
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 5: fact that it really isn't you know, like there's a

824
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 5: lot of food poisoning.

825
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah.

826
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 5: So I will say I'm going to apologize to some

827
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 5: people out there who I said maybe.

828
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: Faking anyway, right to your Congress people, I guess about salmonella.

829
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do that's something. What are we doing?

830
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy.

831
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: Feels similar to the Headlights episode where it's like, look

832
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: what they're doing over there makes a lot of sense.

833
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: Just they just want demonstrable differences and not and like

834
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: Bill says, where it's like everyone freaked out how expensive

835
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: meat would be. It adjusts. It's not you know, once

836
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: it's built into the thing. It's just that's what it is.

837
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: I mean, over all these the factory farms and stuff.

838
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: It makes me want to go, you know, avoid that more. Yeah, yeah,

839
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, who knows. Yeah, it's it seems pretty bad

840
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: out there. Of course, the ownus just falls on us

841
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: as consumers and cookers ourselves.

842
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: To do it.

843
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: Like so many other things issue too.

844
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 4: If no one cares until they're a victim of it.

845
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: Well yeah, exactly.

846
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: So like I'm not really thinking about Semonel if I

847
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 4: don't have.

848
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 6: You know, they had this big food safety conference in

849
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 6: Cleveland a couple of weeks ago, four thousand people in

850
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 6: a room. And they always pick somebody once a year

851
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 6: to be like the keynote speaker for the conference. But

852
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 6: the guy who gave the speech, he goes. You know,

853
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 6: one of the things that we should really do is,

854
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 6: you know, put Bill Marler into retirement.

855
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 7: Is Bill Marler here.

856
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 4: Kills kills kills such.

857
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: Thing, No such thing as a production of kaleidoscope content.

858
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 1: Our Executive producers are Kate Osbourne and Mangeshkur. The show

859
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: is created by Manny Fidel, Noah Friedman, That's Me and

860
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: Devin Joseph. Theme and credits song by Manny Fidel, mixing

861
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: by Steve Bone. Our guest this week are Ben Chapman

862
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: and Bill Marler. Visit No Such Thing dot show to

863
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: subscribe to our newsletter, and if you have feedback or

864
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: a question for us, our email is many Noah Deevin

865
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also lead this voicemail

866
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: by calling the number in our show notes. We'll be

867
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: back next week with a new episode.

868
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 4: Thanks Hells, Hess Hells, No Such Thing