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Speaker 1: In anything that you do, no matter how successful you are,

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Speaker 1: no matter how far you get to bring it or

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Speaker 1: go with it, just remembering why you're there and enjoying

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Speaker 1: the process and truly loving what you do is just

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Speaker 1: so important.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, Emily Abadi here. You are listening to episode

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Speaker 2: one sixty five of Hurdle, a wellness Fogus podcast where

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Speaker 2: I sit down with inspiring individuals to talk about big wins,

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Speaker 2: tough moments, and everything in between. On the show, you

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Speaker 2: can expect vulnerability, motivation, and candid discussions with everyone from

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Speaker 2: top athletes and CEOs to aspiring entrepreneurs on what it

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Speaker 2: really takes to follow your passions. My mission is simple

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Speaker 2: to inspire you to be your best self, move with intention,

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Speaker 2: and have some fun along the way. Today I am

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Speaker 2: sitting down with Kai Leitner. He's a professional climber, arguably

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Speaker 2: one of the best in the world from Fayetteville, North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: And get this, he first walked into a climbing gym

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Speaker 2: when he was six years old. Today he's earned twelve

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Speaker 2: national championship titles and that's just.

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Speaker 3: The tip of the iceberg. Really.

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Speaker 2: We talk about it all from the why behind, how

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Speaker 2: he started in the sport, dealing with adhd as a

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Speaker 2: young kid looking for an outlet to channel that energy

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Speaker 2: to how he feels about being the only person of

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Speaker 2: color at his level, so to speak, in climbing. We

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Speaker 2: talk about the importance of access in the sport, and

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Speaker 2: he talks to me about his relatively new nonprofit called

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Speaker 2: Climbing for Change, which aims to help with that by

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Speaker 2: connecting underserved communities with individuals and organizations that seek to

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Speaker 2: increase minority participation in rock climbing in the outdoor adventure industry.

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Speaker 2: He also gets super open and honest about a massive

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Speaker 2: he spoke out about publicly last year, dealing with an

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Speaker 2: eating disorder as a result of the pressure he felt

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Speaker 2: to be the best. He says that taking time off

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Speaker 2: from the sport and going to college was a major

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Speaker 2: game changer for him, helping him get his mind right

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Speaker 2: and reframe his relationship with food for the better. We

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Speaker 2: connected on the heels of Kai being in a campaign

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Speaker 2: for Got Milk, Remember those which I'll link to in

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Speaker 2: the show notes. It's a two minute film called The

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Speaker 2: Wall directed by Jimmy Chin, who you may recognize from

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Speaker 2: Free Solo, and in the film he's scaling a climbing wall,

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Speaker 2: which is legit atop a thirty story building in downtown

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Speaker 2: Kansas City.

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Speaker 3: It's literally remarkable. You have to have to have to

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Speaker 3: check it out.

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Speaker 2: I really really appreciate Kai for his honesty and vulnerability

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Speaker 2: and our conversation, and I want to make sure to

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Speaker 2: mention here that if you or someone you know is

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Speaker 2: struggling with disordered eating, I'm going to be including some

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Speaker 2: helpful resources in the.

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Speaker 3: Show notes, and you are not alone. Make sure you

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Speaker 3: are following along with Hurdle over on social media.

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Speaker 2: It's at Hurdle Podcast. I'm over at Emily a Body

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Speaker 2: and I say this all the time, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to say it again. If you have not yet rated

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Speaker 2: and reviewed the show in Apple Podcasts, it would mean

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Speaker 2: the world to me if you take the time to

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Speaker 2: do it today, right now, this very second. Then come

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Speaker 2: back and make sure to listen to the episode, but

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Speaker 2: head on and over to Apple Podcasts, rate and review

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Speaker 2: the show, give it five stars, and tell me what

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Speaker 2: you love.

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Speaker 3: That's it for now. With that, let's get to Hurdling today.

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Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Kai Lightner. He is professional climber.

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Speaker 2: A twenty twenty four Olympic hopeful. How you doing today?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing pretty awesome. How about you, guys?

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Speaker 2: Pretty awesome? Pretty awesome? Is like, I'm good. Things are

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Speaker 2: going smoothly.

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Speaker 3: Is there anything you want to tell us right off

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Speaker 3: the bad?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I had a really great breakfast. I

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Speaker 1: had a morning training at like nine am, and so

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Speaker 1: I feel like my skin is glowing. The vibes are great.

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Speaker 1: It's one hundred degree weather. But so I'm inside in

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Speaker 1: the air condition.

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Speaker 3: That is something to definitely be grateful for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing great. I just feel bad for the

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Speaker 1: people doing our work outside.

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Speaker 3: Amen.

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Speaker 2: Well, speaking of usually climbing outside versus climbing inside. I

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Speaker 2: know when you started climbing, you did so growing up

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Speaker 2: in an inner city, and at that point you were

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Speaker 2: spending a lot of time climbing inside. So bring us

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Speaker 2: back there and talk to me about how you got

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Speaker 2: started in the sport and why you even got started

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Speaker 2: in the sport.

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Speaker 1: Lord, I wish my mother was here. She has the

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Speaker 1: real story. But I've always just I just like climbing things.

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Speaker 1: When I was a kid, before I could walk, I

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Speaker 1: would climb over the baby gasey set around daycare and

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Speaker 1: the monitors just had no way of keep me under control.

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Speaker 1: By the time was four, I would eat lunch on

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Speaker 1: the basketballop. I would just sit in the net and

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Speaker 1: just eat my sandwich. And one day my mother was

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Speaker 1: at school. She's a college professor, and she was talking

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Speaker 1: to one of her colleagues, and she brought me to work,

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Speaker 1: and I decided that while she was distracted, that I

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Speaker 1: should climb the fifty foot flagpole that flew the state

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Speaker 1: flag that was right behind her. So I should be

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Speaker 1: my way up it. And I got to the top

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Speaker 1: and a lady came by and she looked up and

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Speaker 1: she helped me down, and as my mother was like

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Speaker 1: profusely apologizing, she was like, oh, actually, like, let me

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Speaker 1: write down the address local climbing gym, and so she

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Speaker 1: put it on a sticky note. She gave it to

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Speaker 1: my mom and said to try rock climbing. And so

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Speaker 1: the next day my mom brought me into the gym,

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Speaker 1: begged the man at the front desk to get me

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Speaker 1: into the sport because she can't control her ADHD kid,

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Speaker 1: his energy is just crazy. That man at the front

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Speaker 1: desk happens to be my lifetime coach. Now shade mess

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Speaker 1: her and as soon as I walking to the gym,

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Speaker 1: it was just like I never wanted to leave. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to climb every wall, get to the top of everything,

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Speaker 1: and it just kept going from there.

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Speaker 3: That's insane. I love the sundance.

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Speaker 2: And she helped me down the flagpole, as if like

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Speaker 2: this person could actually like get to the top of

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Speaker 2: this fifty foot flagpole.

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Speaker 1: I think it was more of a like keep me

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Speaker 1: calm sort of thing, like, hey, like you should probably

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Speaker 1: come down. I had everything under control.

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Speaker 3: And you remember it. You remember it so vividly.

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Speaker 1: I do. I remember. I can't. I wish I could

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Speaker 1: find the lady, honestly, but yeah, I do remember that.

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Speaker 2: If she's somehow a hurdle podcast listener, a hurdler and

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Speaker 2: she hears this, you are forever indebted to her.

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Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely agreed. I would love to like buy her

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Speaker 1: coffee or something like. Do you know you started all this.

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Speaker 2: So you get into climbing, and you said you got

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Speaker 2: into the gym, and you can't imagine your life without

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Speaker 2: having taken that big step to talk to me about

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Speaker 2: your first few years in the gym. I mean, did

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Speaker 2: you know from the get go that this was going

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Speaker 2: to be something that you couldn't get enough of.

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Speaker 1: Well, funny enough, The thing that really got me into

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Speaker 1: climbing that first day was the man at the front desk.

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Speaker 1: I'd call him that Shane. Shane put me on the

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Speaker 1: rope and he put me on every angle of the walls,

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Speaker 1: every wall in the gym, and I was getting all

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Speaker 1: the way up them. So he put me on the

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Speaker 1: steepest angle and it was a purple taped climb, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get to the top, but it was

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Speaker 1: just a little bit too hard for me. But I

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Speaker 1: was too stubborn to come down, and so I grabbed

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Speaker 1: onto these two holes in the wall and I just

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Speaker 1: cried and I wouldn't come down because I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to get to the top. And so Shane was like,

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Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes later, I'm sitting on this wall and

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Speaker 1: Shane's just like, are you gonna come down? I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. And so I made

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Speaker 1: one or two my moves and fell. And I came

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Speaker 1: back every day that week because I had to get

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Speaker 1: to the top of that wall. So I've always just

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Speaker 1: been like competitive by nature, and so Shane saw that

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Speaker 1: in me and asked me to join the local climb team.

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Speaker 1: From there, I just started doing competitions.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty impressive for you because I remember, like I

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Speaker 2: feel like many people go to summer camp, you climb

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Speaker 2: like a rock wall or like just a tall wall,

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Speaker 2: and then you go on the zipline to come down.

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Speaker 2: And climbing up the wall didn't scare me. But I

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Speaker 2: remember when I was like seven years old at summer

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Speaker 2: camp that I climbed with the wall and I got

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Speaker 2: to the top to the platform where I was supposed

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Speaker 2: to zipline down, and I sat on that platform for

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Speaker 2: like I don't know, maybe an hour until it got dark,

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Speaker 2: and was literally forced to get off of it to

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Speaker 2: go down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's crazy when you like find that

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Speaker 1: thing you're passionate about. Well, like as kids, we just

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Speaker 1: latch onto things so much. But for me, I knew

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Speaker 1: climbing was special because I had ADHD growing up, and

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Speaker 1: my mother tried putting me in a million other sports

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Speaker 1: like basketball, football, baseball, soccer, like all of them, and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't bad at them, but they just didn't hold

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Speaker 1: my attention. I couldn't carry out a play because I

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Speaker 1: mean I would get distracted, I'd sit in an outfit

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Speaker 1: in baseball and just like pick grass, you know, just

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Speaker 1: I couldn't pay attention. But for some reason, like when

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Speaker 1: I was in the climbing gym on the wall, it

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Speaker 1: was the one time my mother did not have to

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Speaker 1: worry about what I was doing where I was because

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Speaker 1: I was just fixated on what was in front of me.

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Speaker 1: Like I just found so much pleasure and passion and

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Speaker 1: like the movement of climbing and like trying to understand

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Speaker 1: and solve the different puzzles that are in front of me,

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Speaker 1: like on the wall. Just like it was a complete

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Speaker 1: obsession and I just wanted to get better and better

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Speaker 1: and it just completely helped me like focus and everything,

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Speaker 1: not only on climbing, but just like help me, hone

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Speaker 1: in my my energy in life.

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Speaker 2: So when does the oh my god, I want to

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Speaker 2: climb everything, I want to do it all the time

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Speaker 2: turn into while I'm actually really really good at climbing

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Speaker 2: and I'm not just going to be doing it all

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Speaker 2: the time. I'm going to like start to see what

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Speaker 2: this could mean for my life.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I don't really know when that switch

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Speaker 1: kind of came on. I think at some point I

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Speaker 1: was like I think it probably was like after I

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Speaker 1: won like a couple of national titles actually as a kid,

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Speaker 1: because before I would just like show up and compete

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Speaker 1: and have fun. But like I went to comps because

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see my friends, so I just like

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Speaker 1: happened to do well, and a lot of the coaches

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Speaker 1: across the country were like, he's really talented, like he

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Speaker 1: could be really good at this. I'm just like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like like I just like climbed for fun.

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Speaker 1: And then after my first Youth World Championships where I

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Speaker 1: placed fourth but I won every round going into the

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Speaker 1: final and like made a mistake, but at that point

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Speaker 1: they were like he could be world champion, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, wow, maybe this is like a career thing,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I literally after that is when I

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Speaker 1: really started getting like real sponsorships and like people started

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Speaker 1: noticing me. I started doing hard things outside. It was

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Speaker 1: like a pretty big transition. So maybe around like thirteen

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Speaker 1: or so, Like my first sponsorship was when I was ten,

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Speaker 1: with climbing shoes, but like it really got serious around thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Wow, thirteen and at thirteen, do you have a manager

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Speaker 2: or is this like you and your mom just kind

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Speaker 2: of taking on the world here.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of like me and my mom. I

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Speaker 1: still don't think either of us really saw this. Like

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Speaker 1: my mother's only purpose of investing in me and climbing

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Speaker 1: was so that like I would just find something to

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Speaker 1: channel my energy and passion into. She was just like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just in full support of you finding something productive

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Speaker 1: to hone in your abilities and help you just be

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Speaker 1: like this better person. In general. She really loved like

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Speaker 1: how many lessons and like life tuning that climbing did,

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Speaker 1: and so she was like, I'll fund this regardless. And

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Speaker 1: so at some point together we were like, this is

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Speaker 1: getting kind of serious. I think we didn't really hire

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Speaker 1: a manager in like last year. My mom was always

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Speaker 1: helping me manage that stuff. But well, my mom's not

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Speaker 1: a normal mom. She has a pH d in like

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Speaker 1: operations research and something else rocket science y that's involved

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Speaker 1: in math and so like, and she works school of business,

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Speaker 1: and so my mother is very in tuned with like

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Speaker 1: helping me negotiate contracts and understanding that perspective, and so

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Speaker 1: she she was a good mamager for years, but eventually

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Speaker 1: it got a lot and we needed help.

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Speaker 2: A mamager also like something else rocket science y is

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Speaker 2: just like the best descriptor.

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Speaker 1: Now, my mom is pretty often, more likely than not,

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Speaker 1: the smartest person in the room for sure.

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Speaker 2: What would you say growing up and getting more involved

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Speaker 2: in climbing, obviously your mom being a big guiding force

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Speaker 2: in that for you was one of the biggest lessons

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Speaker 2: she taught you as you started to gain more and

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Speaker 2: more maybe fame or just success in the sport. Did

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Speaker 2: she say anything to you to kind of keep you

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Speaker 2: grounded on your way?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Actually, my mom we were just talking about this

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Speaker 1: actually a couple of days ago, and my mother's always like, well,

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Speaker 1: because at the beginning of my career, I didn't really

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Speaker 1: like lose competitions very often. By the time I was fifteen,

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Speaker 1: I was World champion, Pan American Champion, Open National Champion,

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Speaker 1: Youth National champion, like I was holding every title that

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Speaker 1: was possible, and I had won like five or six

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Speaker 1: national titles before that, and so my mother would always

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Speaker 1: be like, well, when you lose, or like, when you're

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Speaker 1: not on top, I mean, you have to find a

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Speaker 1: way to accept that and to realize that, like we're

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Speaker 1: here to have fun at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: At the passion of the sport. I need to hate

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Speaker 1: when you say that, because I'm just like, mom, like,

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Speaker 1: why would you put that energy in the air, Like

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Speaker 1: like I'm doing well now. She was like, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you can't set yourself up in that way of like

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Speaker 1: you're not always going to be at the top of

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Speaker 1: the sport. There will always be well, you're going to

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Speaker 1: get older, you know, competitions are going to be harder.

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Speaker 1: At some point, some little child might come along like

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Speaker 1: you did and be the person at the top of

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Speaker 1: the sport, and so you kind of have to not

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Speaker 1: only prepare for that but also transcend that, like what

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Speaker 1: is your purpose in this space? And like how can

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Speaker 1: you help others with the platform that you have? And

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Speaker 1: so that's a big reason why like Climate for Change

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Speaker 1: is so important to me, and why I've always had

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Speaker 1: a lot of bombs here work and d I work

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Speaker 1: because like, yeah, the titles are great, they're very self gratified,

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Speaker 1: but like, how can I use this to help others? Now,

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Speaker 1: sometime my mom like drilled into me as.

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Speaker 2: A kid, I promised to double click on Climbing for

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Speaker 2: Change in just a little bit. But I love the

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Speaker 2: reference that you made about some other little kid could

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Speaker 2: just come into the sport. I mean, obviously you started

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Speaker 2: at the age of six and then you started to

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Speaker 2: see a lot of success. Talk to me about how

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Speaker 2: the sport changed for you as you got older and

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Speaker 2: became a teenager and started to become like really a man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that a struggle for like a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, a lot of athletes and sports like that

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Speaker 1: is like when your body starts to change significantly, like

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Speaker 1: how you to stay consistent and get over that hump.

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Speaker 1: Like for me, I didn't have a transition really from

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Speaker 1: the youth to the adults. I won my first Open

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Speaker 1: Nationals that I competed in when I was fifteen, Like

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Speaker 1: I I've always been on us team in that since

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Speaker 1: and so like for me, it was like it's a

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Speaker 1: thin autopilot, like you know, like I don't really have

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Speaker 1: to do much and to do what I do and

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Speaker 1: hopefully I'll do well. My best is always enough. But

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Speaker 1: as you get older, as my body started changing, as

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Speaker 1: my training started to have to change, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like you start to realize like, oh, like I am human,

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Speaker 1: like I do have to like accept that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to win every competition kind of like

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Speaker 1: more someone enjoying that process more so than just enjoying

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Speaker 1: the success of it, you know. Like that that was

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Speaker 1: really the transition mentally that I had to go through

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Speaker 1: because as my body was changing, I had to mentally

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Speaker 1: get over the fact that, like, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: every competition, but you have to still enjoy like going

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Speaker 1: into the gym, into the competitions and being a part

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Speaker 1: of the sport. Well.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like an evolution for everyone, right. It's

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Speaker 2: like I remember when I was younger, I would be

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Speaker 2: able to like go out with friends until eleven or

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Speaker 2: twelve or even later and then wake up the next

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Speaker 2: day and like go do a workout. And that was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm young, I can do these things. And now, like,

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Speaker 2: if you want me out until eleven, first of all,

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Speaker 2: I don't even know if that's possible.

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Speaker 3: I'll probably fall asleep while I'm out.

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Speaker 2: But I am sure as hell I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: be able to get up at the crack of dawn

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Speaker 2: and like go tackle a treadmill session.

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Speaker 1: Well understood, I'm twenty one, but I'm still like my

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Speaker 1: curfew is like I need to be home by twelve whatever,

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Speaker 1: y'all do I need to be in bed by then

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Speaker 1: I'm exhausted. I think it's because like I'm like such

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Speaker 1: an old man when it comes to my program, like

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Speaker 1: I wake up early to train, like I'm always in

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Speaker 1: the gym. My body's always aching, so I'm just like

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like being out all the time. But

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Speaker 1: that was such a different story. Like as a kid,

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Speaker 1: I used to be able to be in the gym

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Speaker 1: for like six hours straight, like one session and like

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Speaker 1: be perfectly fine, ready to go after no aches and pains.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm like, no, like I need a physical therapist.

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Speaker 1: I need to stretch, like I need a warm up

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Speaker 1: process that is meticulous and gets some of my joints

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Speaker 1: and my muscles warmed up because I will injure something.

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Speaker 1: But those are the type of changes that I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm referencing, where like everything changes as you gets older.

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Speaker 1: Your body does different things and responds to different things,

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Speaker 1: So you got to just have to adapt with that,

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Speaker 1: and also just adapt to the landscape of the sport,

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Speaker 1: because since I've been in the sport, our sport has

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Speaker 1: progressed significantly, even from gyms being hole in the walls

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Speaker 1: and small areas of the country to suddenly having major

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Speaker 1: commercial gyms being in the center of metropolitan areas like

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Speaker 1: that was unheard of when I started climbing, And so

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Speaker 1: you have more kids going to the sport, the training

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Speaker 1: is progressing, our sports and the Olympics, we're getting more exposure,

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Speaker 1: and so as that happens, it's like I have to

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Speaker 1: keep up with the trends, keep up with the field

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Speaker 1: of athletes, and it can be difficult, but I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love the challenge and I love the competition.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about exposure, You're talking about opportunity. I've heard

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Speaker 2: you speak before about being one of the only, if

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Speaker 2: not the only black man climbing oll at least, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: one of the only black men climbing at your level.

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Speaker 3: Talk to me about what that's been like for.

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Speaker 2: You and kind of being you know what now, especially

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Speaker 2: after the past year, has been kind of a figurehead

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Speaker 2: and a voice for the black community in your sport.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean starting out, I just didn't really have

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Speaker 1: role models that looked like me and my sport. They

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Speaker 1: had the polsters in the gym of the top level

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Speaker 1: climbers of the time, like Chris Sharma, at Amandra and

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Speaker 1: Daniel Woods, like all these people, but none of them

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Speaker 1: were people of color, None of them came from inner cities,

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Speaker 1: A lot of them came from the sport of climbing

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Speaker 1: or like outdoor recreation. In general, all of them are white,

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Speaker 1: and so like, it's just there were backgrounds that I

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Speaker 1: just couldn't identify with, and there was no real blueprints

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Speaker 1: for how I could get to that level. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in an area that we didn't really have a

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Speaker 1: developed climbing team or major climbing gyms. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: gym was a renovated warehouse that had walls over seven

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Speaker 1: ten feet tall and holds and climbs that didn't change

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Speaker 1: for five years. So and then I would go to nationals,

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Speaker 1: You'd see mega gyms with like super tall wall seventy

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Speaker 1: feet tall and centers and developed teams with programs and

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Speaker 1: nutritionists and all these things. And it's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to compete with that or how to do that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think that I was able to

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Speaker 1: find a process and able to kind of infiltrate that space.

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Speaker 1: And so now that I am where I am, and

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Speaker 1: like pretty much really the only representation for black people

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Speaker 1: at this space, at this level, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: my responsibility to give back in that way and to

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Speaker 1: open doors and to help increase that representation with my face,

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Speaker 1: because I know for a fact that if there were

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Speaker 1: more people who looked like me who were at the

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Speaker 1: top of my sport when I was up than the

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Speaker 1: kids in my neighborhood who used to tease me about

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Speaker 1: doing white people's sports and doing something unconventional and weird,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think they would be singing a different tune, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And now I mean after again the past year and

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Speaker 2: so any brands getting into this space and asking you

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Speaker 2: and coming to you asking how can we get more involved?

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Speaker 3: What can we do, how can we collaborate?

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Speaker 2: I know that was the match, if you will, for

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Speaker 2: Climbing for Change. So talk to us a little bit

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Speaker 2: about what climbing for Change is.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so Climbing for Change. Our mission as a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: is trying to break down those barriers of entry for

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Speaker 1: communities of color and making our support more accessible and

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Speaker 1: just more inviting in general. In our space, there's I mean,

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Speaker 1: only five percent of people in our space even identify

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Speaker 1: as a minority, and less than one percent of that

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Speaker 1: as African American which is such a contrast because in

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Speaker 1: our society, like forty percent of America represents the minority.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of the reasons that there's a

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Speaker 1: massive diversity gap in the outdoors and in climbing is

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Speaker 1: just the barriers of entry, of cost, the stigma behind it,

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Speaker 1: of how historically we've been discriminated against in these spaces

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Speaker 1: and rural communities, and just access in general. So with

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Speaker 1: Climate for Change, we try to bridge those gas baffering

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Speaker 1: scholarships and grants and also by combining community efforts for diversity,

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Speaker 1: equity and inclusion work. And so we'll go into an

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Speaker 1: area and there'll be a corporate entity that wants to

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Speaker 1: start a program but doesn't know how to do it.

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Speaker 1: In that same area, there'll be a DEI organization that's

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Speaker 1: already there, who was doing the work, who's connected with

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Speaker 1: the community, and we'll partner them together. They'll combine the

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Speaker 1: resources and the knowledge to really amplify the work, and

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of what we do. We have a

438
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: DEI Connections page so that now people are more aware

439
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: of the organizations that are in their communities, and so

440
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: when they go to a new area and they want

441
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: to be immersed in a community that they feel comfortable with.

442
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 1: They can just encode to our website and look it up.

443
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: They can apply for our grants, they can be a

444
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: part of initiatives that we offer, and so yeah, a

445
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: lot of it's just community building and amplifying diversity and

446
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: inclusion work.

447
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: You mentioned that you would have been remiss almost if

448
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: you didn't step up and do something being this face

449
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: in your sport at times, does this feel a little

450
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 2: bit overwhelming or are you just so deep in your

451
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: purpose that the work doesn't even feel like work.

452
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 1: I think that that idea of giving back has been

453
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: ingrained in me since I was a kid. Like my

454
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: grandmother had a drive in Cleveland that she owned where

455
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: in the winter they would give out coats and food

456
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: and just different necessities to homeless people and people that

457
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: needed them who didn't have it. And so at three

458
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: years old, I was in that shelter volunteering giving out

459
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,719
Speaker 1: toys to kids. At that same age, as I got

460
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: older and I got an allowance, like my mom would

461
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: but ask me if there was any organizations or anything

462
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: I wanted to donate to. So I would donate my

463
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: Christmas money or anything to just different organizations that I

464
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: thought were impactful at a really young age. And my

465
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: mother's always instilled in me like to whom much is given,

466
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: much is required. If you're at this platform, it's your

467
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 1: responsibility to be giving back and opening doors for other

468
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 1: people who're in not so I guess privileged circumstances. And

469
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 1: so for me, it's like I'm in this space. I

470
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: don't want to be the only one forever. I've been

471
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: the only one since I started, but I want to

472
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: lead the sport and kind of see a legacy of

473
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: like I open doors, Like I'm the first, but I'm

474
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: not the last. There's a whole just generation of more diverse,

475
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: motivated people, not only in climbing, but in the outdoors

476
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 1: in general. And I think for me like that would

477
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: be my greatest accomplishment as an athlete, regardless of what

478
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: title of the metals that I win by the time

479
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: I retire.

480
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love

481
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482
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483
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485
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Speaker 2: and that is why I love Baron Fig. Their line

486
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487
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488
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489
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490
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491
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492
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493
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494
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496
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500
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Speaker 2: I also want to give some love to my friends

501
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,480
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502
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 2: You have probably heard about it before, but that's because

503
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: it is ingrained my routine. I look forward to that

504
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: first punching, first tip of it every morning, usually post run.

505
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: Athletic Greens is an all in one daily supplement with

506
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Speaker 2: seventy five vitamins, minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients that

507
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Speaker 2: supports the body's overall energy, immunity, digestion, and recovery. By

508
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: adding a one scoop of the Ultimate Daily Powder to

509
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 2: my iced water in the morning, I'm serving myself the

510
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: antioxidant equivalent of twelve servings of fruits and vegetables, and

511
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Speaker 2: that is what I love most about this product. As

512
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: my body's nutritional needs change daily, whether it be due

513
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: to distress, travel, sleep patterns, the environment, you get the deal.

514
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: I feel confident in the fact that I'm filling the

515
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: gaps in my diet with just one serving of Athletic Greens.

516
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: Of course, Athletic Greens also has an offer for you.

517
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,679
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518
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,960
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519
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520
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,359
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521
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Speaker 2: of Vitamin D plus five free travel packs with your

522
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: first purchase, no code necessary. You mentioned that traveling and

523
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: having in some instances perhaps a lack of access and

524
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 2: of course, as we addressed not seeing a lot of

525
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: people that looked like you or any people that looked

526
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: like you, do you recall any experiences that specifically may

527
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: have made you feel uncomfortable?

528
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I feel like microaggressions in this space were very

529
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: common for me and my mother at a young age.

530
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: Not so much from kids and more so from like

531
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: adults and parents. When I first got in the sport,

532
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: like when it comes to the kids, as long as

533
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: you like climbing, and I like climbing, like it was

534
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: all good, like we would climb together and it'd be fun.

535
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: But a lot of times it was the parents and

536
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: being a don't that have more of the tension and

537
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: the microaggressions. And I really felt it when I would

538
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: go to outdoor communities because a lot of people have

539
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: this misconception that the outdoors this oasis that doesn't discriminate

540
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: and is open to everyone. But it's like, I mean,

541
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: the actual tree itself may be like that, but you

542
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: have to stay somewhere, and you have to eat somewhere,

543
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: you have to get gas somewhere and get groceries, and

544
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: so a lot of those communities in rural America are

545
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: just have really regressive perspectives on race. And I'll never

546
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: forget being twelve years old and driving to an outdoor

547
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: area and I went to go to the gas station

548
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: and use the bathroom, and on my way out, the

549
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: man stopped me illegally searched me, lift up my shirt

550
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: and grabbed me and basically told me that I look

551
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: like I steal and when he realized that I didn't

552
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: have anything in my pockets, he was like, you can go.

553
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: But by then I've been violated, I have been demeaned.

554
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: And I was twelve years old and I was one

555
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: of them, my first experiences in the outdoors at least

556
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: where I felt like, Wow, I really don't belong here.

557
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: And I mean that's not an isolated incident, but it

558
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: was the one I remember vividly the most I've been

559
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: called the inWORD and grocery stores by people in other aisles.

560
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely been a struggle over the years

561
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: to just feel comfortable and safe in these spaces and

562
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: find them. But I think that the more the sport grows,

563
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: the more normalized that it's becoming. And so I think

564
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: that that's why representation is so important, because I mean,

565
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: with the platform that I have on social media with

566
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: my nonprofit, the more people that were pushing to these

567
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: spaces like they can't ignore us all and they provide

568
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: an example for other people to be like, oh, like

569
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: they can do it, I can too.

570
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

571
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: And the more people a lot of it's education, The

572
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: more people you see in the space, the more normalized

573
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: it becomes, the more accessible they've become.

574
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 2: I know that your goal here beyond normalizing people of

575
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: color in the sport. You also the last year came

576
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: out and spoke about your journey with disordered eating, which

577
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: is a super difficult topic and one that I know

578
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: men specifically really don't talk a lot about when it

579
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: comes to athletics. So talk me through a little bit

580
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: about that and what that journey looked like for you.

581
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: So when you look at climbing, climbing is a strength

582
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: to weight ratio heavy sport. We're hanging off our fingertips

583
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: off of the side of mountains on ninety degree angles,

584
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: and so we're doing that. It matters to be light

585
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: and strong, and so a lot of times athletes will

586
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: test that balance from both perspectives, trying to be a

587
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: stronger athlete but also trying to be as light as possible,

588
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: and oftentimes losing weight can be the easier way out

589
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. And so growing up I

590
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: definitely just had I mean, I was always taller than

591
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: the other athletes, which comes with its own weight, but

592
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: also I had a stock to your build just from

593
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: my family, and so I was always a lot bigger.

594
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: And that concept was always pointed out to me as

595
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: I was growing up and getting better in the sport

596
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: by coaches and teammates and other people, and so I

597
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: kind of internalized that and thought that as I got

598
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: better and as my goals got bigger, like the only

599
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: way I can achieve them is if I get smaller

600
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: and I look like them, which is obviously a slippery slope.

601
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: And so I just developed a really unhealthy relationship with

602
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: food and it kind of got out of hand to

603
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: the point where I almost had liver failure from just

604
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: restricting myself from eating too much. Luckily, I came out

605
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: on the other side of it, and I have a

606
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: bit of a lot healthy relationship with food now. But yeah,

607
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: it was definitely a struggle, but just not an uncommon one.

608
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: I started competing in adult competitions when I was thirteen

609
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: years old, and at that age it was just so

610
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 1: normalized for my idols and the people around us to

611
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: comment on each other's weight, to comment on what each

612
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: other were eating, and you know how you could lose

613
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: more weight or just be smaller to get better at climbing.

614
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was just like kind of ingrained in

615
00:30:59,320 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: the culture.

616
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: In your journey to recovery. Was there any one moment

617
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: that you were like, I can't do this anymore? Was

618
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: it finding out that you were about to have liver failure?

619
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: What was it?

620
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't necessarily that period for me. I

621
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: think it was more so after where you know, my

622
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: body was changing, I was going through puberty. It was

623
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: impossible for me to keep my numbers down because obviously

624
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: if I'm growing and I'm getting muscle, like, I'm going

625
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: to be heavier. But for me, I interpreted that as

626
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 1: I'm not fulfilling my end of the bargain, I'm not

627
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: doing my job, and so like it made me feel

628
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: like a failure and that I couldn't do what I

629
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: was supposed to do or achieve what I wanted to

630
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do.

631
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: From the weight perspective, and obviously, because I'm so much

632
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: bigger than other athletes, I'm going to weigh more than

633
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: other athletes. I wasn't even an average and so it

634
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: just hurt mind, not only just self esteem but also

635
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 1: motivation for the sport. And it definitely, like yet like

636
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: negatively impacted me. Like, but I think what really helped

637
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: me was not only having my mother there at support,

638
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: but I ended up actually taking a break from climbing

639
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: to go to school and being like maybe outside of

640
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: that ultra competitive mindset for a little bit helped me

641
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: kind of put things into perspective because for me, the

642
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: disordered eating wasn't necessarily a self image thing. It was

643
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 1: more of a performance thing for me personally. I always

644
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: felt like I was able to rationalize it as like

645
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: it's because of my sport, like just just the way

646
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: things are, like if I want to be good, this

647
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: is what it has to be. But when I got

648
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: to school and I was like, oh, I don't have

649
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: to do this anymore, and I developed to help their

650
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: relationship with food and hindsight, I was able to recognize

651
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: that's super unhealthy, Like I can't believe I used to

652
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: do that to my body and so having that perspective

653
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: going back into it and training for the next Olympic cycle,

654
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like I have a healthier perspective on

655
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: food and health and all of that, and I think

656
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: it's definitely improved my performance, my climbing ability, and just

657
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: the consistency of my training.

658
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, now that you're fueling

659
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: your body better and being more mindful about what you're

660
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: putting into it, and giving yourself the calories you need

661
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: and the electrolytes you need, and refilling your glycogen stores

662
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: after you're working out for three hours at a time,

663
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: like you must feel a dramatic difference versus when you

664
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: just were completely depleted.

665
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think a lot of what helped then.

666
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: Also I was a kid, so there's a certain level

667
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: of energy that I was just going to have in general.

668
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel so much better as an athlete,

669
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: so much healthier. But it's more than just physical, it's

670
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: mental too. It's just like I have more energy, I

671
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: have more motivation, Like climbing and training feels a lot

672
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: more fun because you know, I like food. I'm a

673
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: food so restricting my body of nutrients was not fun.

674
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: It taint in my image of the sport in general,

675
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: but developing healthier habits it just made me love the

676
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: sport even more, which helps me stay motivated to train

677
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: to be the best athlete I can be.

678
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: I love what you wrote in the blog saying I

679
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: think it's important to provide a space where kids are

680
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: able to push themselves to find their own paths instead

681
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: of conforming to a vision that doesn't fit them. Allow

682
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: your kids to follow your dreams, but make sure they

683
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: are doing it in a way that builds them up.

684
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: These days, what are you doing to build yourself up?

685
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: I think that for me it was finding balance. I

686
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of prodigy athletes go through this

687
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: where when your entire life, not only has this been

688
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: my life, but everyone expects me to perform at a

689
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: certain level and to be in the sport in a

690
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: certain amount. So climbing felt like my entire world. It

691
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: was all that I wanted to do at one point,

692
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: but then at some point it became like the only

693
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: thing that I could do. But now I feel like

694
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: balancing with hanging out with friends and doing other activities

695
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: and just being more immersed in life and appreciating these years,

696
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, like having other hobbies like reading or hiking

697
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: or you know, going to hot spring, just doing fun

698
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: things in the area. I think like that has really

699
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: helped me like feel more grounded and more in context

700
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: with the world around me, and just like is enjoying

701
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: the process a lot more so. I think that that's

702
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: the thing that I feel like is uplifting me the most,

703
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: like physically and mentally. It's just like just enjoying life

704
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: more in a lot more other ways than just climbing,

705
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: like having more dimensions, more layers to myself as a person.

706
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: You mentioned that prodigy, which is such like a true

707
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: word when it comes to you and your climbing journey.

708
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: I would imagine in becoming so well known so young,

709
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: and that in combination with the craziness that goes with

710
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: your sport and climbing these insane roots and going up

711
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 2: so high, I mean, the mental work that goes hand

712
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: in hand with the physical work must be so great.

713
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 3: So talk to me a little bit about that.

714
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure by now you've worked with a handful of

715
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: different sports psychology.

716
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: Well, I've had a couple of therapists at this point,

717
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: but I think that, especially in my sport, the mental

718
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: side of things is so important because it's more than

719
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: just being able to handle pressure. But when you go

720
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: into a competition, there is no stable element of any

721
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: of it. In other sports like track and field, like

722
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: the distance is the same, the track is going to

723
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: be the same, the technology is the same. But in climbing,

724
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: every competition that you enter, the arena is different. The

725
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: location is different, which means the environment and temperature and

726
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: all that comes into play. The holds are different, the

727
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: angles are different. Every time you step into the wall,

728
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: like you get a different problem, a different climb, and

729
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: so you never know what skill set you're going to

730
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: need to achieve it. And also a big product climbing

731
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: is problem solving because you put a series of holes

732
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: in the wall and it's not who's the strongest, it's

733
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: who can figure out the most efficient sequence that works

734
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: with them in this limited time period, which is usually

735
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 1: like four minutes on a Bolder or Minnesota League climb.

736
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: And so because of how cerebral that process is, it's

737
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: like you have to be on physically and mentally for

738
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: the entire competition, constantly figuring out like new sequences, new

739
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: ways to solve climbs and trying to get that done

740
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: that period of time, and also having to handle the

741
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: pressure of the situation like being in a World Championship

742
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: final or something, And so a lot of that comes

743
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: down to just like repetitively putting yourself in those positions,

744
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: like we'll have mock competitions and US team trainings constantly.

745
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: I read a lot of books about other successful athletes

746
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: processes what they go through mentally. My mom has always

747
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: been really important about that, like having that routine where

748
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: we calm everything down, then we recap the training or

749
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: recap the competition and making sure that I'm like keeping

750
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: a positive mindset and regrouping. And so I think that, yeah,

751
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: routine and just repetitively putting myself in those pressure mindsets

752
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: is what helps me stay stable and consistent.

753
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: Do you have any mantras or things that you say

754
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: to yourself to help you come back to calm.

755
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's more so just breathe.

756
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: And also reminded myself that once I go out in

757
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: the competition wall, it's out of my hands. Really. Once

758
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: I show up, I'm like I've done everything I can do.

759
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: I've done the training, I've done all of the preparation

760
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: that I could, So in this moment, all I can

761
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: do is go out there and do my best and

762
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: figure it out. It works out, it's great. If it doesn't,

763
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 1: then it wasn't meant to be. But at that point

764
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: I have to like allow it to leave my hands

765
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: and like trust in God that everything will work out.

766
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 2: I feel like you probably didn't always have that perspective,

767
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: right like I did the best that I could.

768
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: When things go wrong.

769
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: Do you remember perhaps a certain instance where you came

770
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: to understand that you really had to adopt that mindset

771
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 2: and that you were going to have to get okay

772
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: with sometimes falling, sometimes not being the absolute best.

773
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think probably my first Youth World Championships. I

774
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: went in and the mindset of the team at the

775
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: time was that the European athletes were someone better than us,

776
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: that it wasn't really possible for us to do well

777
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: at that level, and so going in I was like

778
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: nervous and scared. But then after qualifiers was finished, I

779
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: was in first place, and then after semi finals finish,

780
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: I was the only person that top the route and

781
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: I was in first place going into finals by a lot,

782
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: and so going into finals, I was like, I could

783
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: win this competition and I had no expectation to do so,

784
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: and going in, I was like super nervous and didn't

785
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: necessarily have the best preparation. So I went up and

786
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: I went to climb, and I was going for a

787
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: move and my foot slipped and I fell, and I

788
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: got a score of forty forty one holds. Little did

789
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: I know, and I wasn't tired when I fell, But

790
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: little did I know that if I had gotten positive movement,

791
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: which is a plus and our scoring system, that would

792
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: have been silver. And then if I had grabbed the

793
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: next hold, I would have won the entire competition. And

794
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,760
Speaker 1: so I was absolutely devastated, like couldn't keep it together.

795
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: I was like I was one holdaway from the world champion.

796
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: I just let it go and I had everything it

797
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: took to be there, and so like it took me

798
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: a minute to realize, you know, like it just means

799
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: that there's something else that I needed to work on. Physically,

800
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: I was prepared, but mentally I was not. And I

801
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: hadn't prepared myself for that level of expectation and level

802
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: of pressure. So we had to go into the gym

803
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: and try a new style of mental preparation, and a

804
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: year later at the next competition it was actually the

805
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: opposite story. I had grown a few inches leading up

806
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: into the championships. I wasn't physically in shape as much

807
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: as I happened the year before, and I scraped into

808
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: the final, but mentally I was able to keep it together.

809
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: I ended up winning my first world title, and so

810
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: for me, it was just like understanding that going in competition,

811
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: like competitions are unpredictable. Anything can happen, and sometimes you

812
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: have to adapt in training in more than one method.

813
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's not up to you. Sometimes it's

814
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: just not meant to be.

815
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 2: How have you come to learn to separate your worth

816
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: as Kai the climber versus Kai the individual, because I

817
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: would imagine with those falls and those scrapes, sometimes it

818
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: can be really difficult forget, like if you're injured and

819
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 2: you can't climb, like, there's still worth to you as

820
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: we know. So how have you come to adopt that

821
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 2: and understand that.

822
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: I think that's come with balance and with age as well.

823
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 1: I try to make sure that I have a climbing

824
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: life like I have my friends. In climbing, I have

825
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: my routine and my training, but then once that's out

826
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: the door and I leave the gym and I go

827
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: and hang out with my friends. Like I'm not Kai

828
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: the climber or I'm not the world champion athlete. I'm

829
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: just KaiA. I'm just chilling watching a Netflix show or

830
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: playing a game or going out to an event. I'm

831
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: just normal. And that way it helps me stay grounded

832
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: because it's like I get to do normal things and

833
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm so glad. Actually it's funny because this one's becoming

834
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: more popular, but because when I was like basketball or football,

835
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: like as soon as leads the jim unrecognizable, no way

836
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: knows who I am, which is really peaceful. So I

837
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: get to like immerse myself in normal life and also

838
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: have other hobbies and passions efforts like climbing for change

839
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: and my nonprofit work, and also you know, just going

840
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: to basketball games, like reading books, getting a degree in

841
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: college and having that path and opportunities like not putting

842
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: all my eggs in one basket, and also like diversifying

843
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: myself as much as possible, just so that you know,

844
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: if something doesn't work out in climbing if you know

845
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: tomorrow I have I get injured and can't do the

846
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: next Olympics. I mean, I still have other things that

847
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: fall back when I'm not a one dimensional person.

848
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: I love this idea of like I leave the climbing

849
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: gym and nobody knows who I am. Meanwhile, you just

850
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: did something pretty dope, which is that you teamed up

851
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: with Jimmy Chen. He's the Oscar winning director from Resolo.

852
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: The two of you worked on a two minute film

853
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: for Got Milk called The Wall. I mean, was that

854
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 2: like the most surreal experience or what?

855
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah? It was pretty cool because I mean, I like

856
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, I love climbing things. I always

857
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: used to climb sides of buildings and you know, things

858
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to. But those are the things that

859
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: got me in trouble as a kid. My mom hated it,

860
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: the kids at school thought I was weird. And so

861
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: to be able to bring back this thing that used

862
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: to get me in trouble and people will say would

863
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: make me end up somewhere I'm not supposed to, and

864
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: allow that activity to be the thing that helps push

865
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: this sport into the mainstream in a different way. Like

866
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: open the doors an opportunity. It just feels like a

867
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: huge full circle moment and it was so special. I'm like, wow,

868
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: I get to climb the side of a building and

869
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: instead of getting in trouble for it, I'm actually giving

870
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: exposure to my sports and help you know, little black

871
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: kids and kids of color see someone who looks like

872
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: them doing activity. That's the way out of the norm.

873
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: Like that's that's the door. R there, that's open as

874
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: an opportunity like that just it felt like really really

875
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: special for me.

876
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 2: And so you guys set up set up on top

877
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 2: of a thirty story building in downtown Kansas City.

878
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of view was that.

879
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful view actually because it was like

880
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: the like the second tallest building in the downtown area,

881
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: so I could see the entire city. It was awesome.

882
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: Everyone was like are you scared, and I'm like, no,

883
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: this is what I do for a living.

884
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 3: I am definitely not like a real life spider Man.

885
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like this is a chill for me. I

886
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: mean I climbed the side of real mountains for a

887
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: living and so like this is nothing. But it was

888
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: still thrilling, you know, like I got that same thrill

889
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: that I get on rocks when I do cool moves

890
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: that I do, and that I did on that wall,

891
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: because I mean, in the film this is jump in

892
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: the middle of the climb where like I have to

893
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: jump from a the hole and like all points off

894
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: Dino to this to this lope behold, And when I

895
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: was doing it, I just felt like I was flying,

896
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: like I was in mid air and that like it

897
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: was just me and the wall. And that's like kind

898
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: of those moments that I live for.

899
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 2: And climbing, the ones where you feel like you're flying

900
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 2: and like with zero inhibitions do you have And I

901
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: can't even imagine that there's one answer to this question,

902
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: but like a favorite climb that you've ever done, or

903
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: perhaps like just this one impeccable view that you will

904
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: just always always go back to.

905
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: M You know, there's this photo that I use really

906
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: often because I love it so much, but it's also

907
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: because the view is amazing. But this is area, this

908
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: is climbing area called the New River Gorge and it's

909
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. Slade. No, No, it's slave Kentucky. No, actually, no,

910
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm that's a terrible It's actually they have the West Virginia.

911
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: It's funny because I'm from f theyav in North Carolina, so I

912
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: should remember that. But it's in they have the West Virginia.

913
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: It's an area called the New River Gorge and this

914
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: is a crack called the Cirque and you go there

915
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: and you climb to the top of the wall and

916
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: you look out and you can see like the running

917
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: river and the forest and the trees and like, that's

918
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: a really beautiful area. For me. It was one of

919
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: my first areas that I ever went to as a kid,

920
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: So it was my first exposure to after climbing, which

921
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: is why I appreciated it so much. But I definitely

922
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: think that that area is always really beautiful for me.

923
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: But I've had the opportunity to travel the world and

924
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: see a lot of different places, and so that's a

925
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: hard question, but I definitely have to stick with the

926
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: West Virginia. One.

927
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: Is it crazy for you to be able to travel

928
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: the world and having heard how special the relationship is

929
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: between you.

930
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,959
Speaker 3: And your mom, like be able to bring your mom

931
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 3: along with you.

932
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely. I think it's funny because my mother was

933
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: actually scared of heights. She didn't like climbing at all

934
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: when I started out, And so the fact that she

935
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: was so willing to come with me, to learn, to

936
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: belay with me, to help with all that was just

937
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 1: super special. And I think she's learned to appreciate it

938
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: sort of. She still doesn't climb, She doesn't like climbing.

939
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 1: I get to pressure her into climbing like once every

940
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: seven years, but like, I mean, she still doesn't really

941
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: enjoy the actual activity itself, but she definitely learned to. Like,

942
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I think what it is that she as

943
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: an ADHD kid, she didn't really trust a ton of

944
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: people with like managing me because she knew it was

945
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: a handful, so she felt obligated at first. And I

946
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: think now she kind of just likes hanging out with

947
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: me if you want a minute. But I think she

948
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: likes hanging out with me.

949
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 3: I'm sure she'll admit it.

950
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 2: So for you now, I mean, someone goes to your

951
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: Instagram page, they see someone with ninety thousand followers, a

952
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: climber making his name known in this sport. When you

953
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: look in the mirror, what is it that you see

954
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: looking back at you?

955
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: Wow? When Momma refilection shows that, I think of that roomlights.

956
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 3: As a pro singer.

957
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: I think, what do I see when I look back

958
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: in the mirror, You know, I feel like I just

959
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: see like a twenty one year old college kid who

960
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: likes to climb rocks, And I just every day I

961
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: wake up, I just feel so blessed that I have

962
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: the platform and the opportunity to really create the change

963
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: that I want to see in the world, whether it's

964
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: in my immediate community or abroad. The more exposure that

965
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: I get, the more opportunities that I get, Like, it's

966
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: not just a win for me, and it's a win

967
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: for my community. And so I think that that's what

968
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: it makes me to get up in the morning and

969
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: look in the mirror and just say, like, you know,

970
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: like wow, like I can't believe for here, it's just

971
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: it's amazing.

972
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: You mentioned that your coach now is the same man

973
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: that you saw at the front desk when you went

974
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: climbing for the first time. Talk to me about one

975
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 2: of the best pieces of advice that he has offered

976
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: you along this journey.

977
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: Huh. I think the best I didn't even think about it.

978
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: I think the best one is I used to be

979
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: a nervous wreck in isolation. I'd be in ISO, like

980
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: at finals of national championships, and I just be like,

981
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: what if I don't win? Like what if I don't

982
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: do well? Like what if I just like slip at

983
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: the start, like what happens then? And he's looking at

984
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: me and he's like, I do literally don't care, Like

985
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: I just want you to go out there and have

986
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: a good time and have fun, and as long as

987
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: you do your best, I will always be proud of you.

988
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: And those words always used to like grown me and

989
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: make me feel more comfortable and sound knowing that I

990
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: had his support and the support of my family out there.

991
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: So I think the lesson I learned from that is

992
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: like in anything that you do, no matter how successful

993
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: you are, no matter how far you get to bring

994
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: it or go with it, just remembering why you're there,

995
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: enjoying the process and truly loving what you do is

996
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: just so.

997
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: Important, so important. Final couple of questions here.

998
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: I know we talked about your journey when it came

999
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 2: to disordered eating. I'm sure there are individuals w listening

1000
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: to this right now who have had similar struggles. For

1001
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,479
Speaker 2: those individuals, what kind of advice would you offer them

1002
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 2: to getting through that particular hurdle.

1003
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: I think the best advice I have is just not

1004
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: being afraid to ask for help or to be vulnerable.

1005
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that no matter how embarrassing or

1006
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: private you think that the matter is, there are other

1007
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: people out there that can relate to your story and

1008
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: that can get you the help that you need, even

1009
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: when you don't know how to help yourself. I feel

1010
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 1: so blessed that I had a mother that was someone

1011
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: tuned with me and attentive and understood when I needed help,

1012
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 1: because honestly, it saved my life. And I just can

1013
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 1: only pray that other people can get a similar help

1014
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: and to help them through that process. I don't know

1015
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: where I be without her help and the help of

1016
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: people around me who are able to just keep me

1017
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: mentally grounded and help me with my disordered eating.

1018
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 2: What are you excited about? What are you looking forward to?

1019
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: Writ now?

1020
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: Now? Right now, I'm looking forward to getting back into

1021
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: training for the next Olympic cycles. So I've already started training,

1022
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: I've already entered my first national competitions in my just

1023
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: different team selection camps and processes, and so that process

1024
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: it feels like home for me because I've been doing

1025
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: it for so long, but it's nice to be back

1026
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: in a swing of things. I'm also excited about investing

1027
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: more in my nonprofit, Climbing for Change. We just opened

1028
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: up a new grant program just to get more diversity

1029
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: in the root setting process, which is the people who

1030
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: put the climbs on the wall at different competitions. We're

1031
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: hoping to revamp some new programs and old programs that

1032
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: are going on, including our one in Atlanta where we

1033
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: built a climbing wall and a recreation center and partner

1034
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: with city government and the local climbing gym to provide

1035
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: free transportation and climbing programs at the gym in Atlanta.

1036
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: And just yeah, like just providing more opportunities for communities

1037
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: of color and just underserved communities who have never had

1038
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: since the support before or knew it was possible for them.

1039
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: Right now, you have an opportunity to offer the kai

1040
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: who is not giving his body what it needs, struggling

1041
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: and maybe doing some serious damage to his liver a

1042
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: piece of advice. Looking back on that hurdle moment right now,

1043
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 2: what do you tell him.

1044
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: That you know climbing is at the end of the world,

1045
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,959
Speaker 1: and that the most important thing about doing what you're

1046
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: doing is enjoying the process, enjoying every single step of it.

1047
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 1: Make yourself miserable in the gym for months just for

1048
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: a single gratifying moment that happens over weekend. It's just

1049
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 1: not sustainable. So just calm yourself down and find healthier

1050
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: ways to live life. Just enjoy yourself.

1051
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time today. I'm so

1052
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 2: grateful for you, and I seriously join you in this

1053
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: mission of hoping that what we're doing and the good

1054
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: that we're doing can empower rather people to feel a

1055
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: little bit less alone on their journeys.

1056
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 3: Talk to me about how the hurdlers can keep up

1057
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 3: with you.

1058
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 2: How can they follow along with you as you prep

1059
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty four Give us the info.

1060
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can't follow me on social media at kai

1061
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: Lightner my name pretty much on any platform, well more

1062
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: so Instagram and Facebook. You can also follow Climb for Change,

1063
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: my nonprofit work at Climbing the Number four Change, both

1064
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram and on Facebook. And you can go to

1065
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: my website Kaidashlitner dot com to follow my story in

1066
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: my blog posts.

1067
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 3: I love it.

1068
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: I'm over at Hurdle Podcast and at Emily Abody, another

1069
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: hurdle conquered.

1070
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.