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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Bombshell in the Brian wals murder case, charged with the

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Speaker 2: brutal murderer of his wife, Anna, the mother of their

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Speaker 2: little boys, and the likely dismemberment of her.

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Speaker 1: Oh, the bombshell. It's so upsetting.

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Speaker 2: You recall the Karen Reid case, right, the girlfriend accused

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Speaker 2: of running over her boyfriend in the snow and killing him.

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Speaker 2: How could we forget it? That case ended in mistrial

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Speaker 2: hung jury. What does the Karen read prosecution have to

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Speaker 2: do with Brian Walt reportedly murdering his wife. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is crime Stories for being with us. In the

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Speaker 2: last days, there have been hours and hours of motions

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Speaker 2: in court regarding the Brian Walsh murder case. Some of

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Speaker 2: those motions dealt with DNA results. There's been a delay

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Speaker 2: in the DNA results because the DNA samples went through

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Speaker 2: a private lab and there's a hold up over who's

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Speaker 2: going to pay for that testing. But now all focus

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Speaker 2: is on Massachusetts State Police Trooper Michael Proctor, who led

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Speaker 2: the investigation into the Anna Walsh murder case. Why why

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Speaker 2: is all the focus on him? Proctor is set to

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Speaker 2: face a trial board next week due to allegations of

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Speaker 2: misconduct and the Karen Reid murder case. Proctor was the

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Speaker 2: leading investigator in both cases.

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Speaker 1: His testimony at.

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid's for his trial, as I said, ended in

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Speaker 2: a hung jury, raised questions among some people regarding police integrity.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, is the Karen Reid case.

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Speaker 2: Going to destroy the Anna Walsh murder investigation?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Refresher what exactly happened in the Anna Walsh murder case?

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Speaker 2: Friends and family or stunned when Anna disappears after a

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Speaker 2: New Year's Eve party?

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Speaker 1: Listen new tonight.

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Speaker 3: Police were asking the public to help them find a

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Speaker 3: cohaset Massachusetts mother of three who vanished without a trace

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Speaker 3: on New Year's Day. Thirty nine year old Anna Walsh

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Speaker 3: left her home early Sunday morning. She was supposed to

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Speaker 3: take a flight from Logan to DC, where she works

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Speaker 3: during the week, but there's no record of her ever

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Speaker 3: boarding a flight. Police say there's been reports that she

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Speaker 3: took a ride show, but investigators haven't been able.

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Speaker 1: To confirm that.

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Speaker 4: Three days after she was seen leaving her home with

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Speaker 4: bags in hand, Walsh was reported missing.

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Speaker 5: We cannot confirm that she actually got into a ride

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Speaker 5: share in Cohacit. We confurther, we have confirmed with the

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Speaker 5: A lines and that's been a challenge that she did

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Speaker 5: not board a plane this week.

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Speaker 4: Police say her phone has been off and there has

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Speaker 4: been no activity on her credit or debit cards. Just

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Speaker 4: a loving wife and mother, Dave.

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Speaker 6: She always says, three beautiful boys, three beautiful boys, So

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Speaker 6: she loves so.

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Speaker 1: Much too, little boys wondering where is mommy?

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Speaker 2: You were hearing our friends at wp R I and WUSA.

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Speaker 1: So where's Anna now?

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Speaker 2: I had to take that exact flight very often, and

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Speaker 2: between New York and Boston and DC, it's almost a

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Speaker 2: triangle of hourly flights with me an all star panel

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Speaker 2: to make sense of what we know right now, But

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Speaker 2: first I'm going to go to Bob Ward, reporter for

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Speaker 2: Boston twenty five News. You can find him at Twitter

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Speaker 2: at b Ward three. Bob, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Could you just verbalize that a little bit better than

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Speaker 2: I did? I mean, I know, out of in New York,

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Speaker 2: I would very often have to race from Court TV

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Speaker 2: to get to the Marine Air terminal at LaGuardia, a

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Speaker 2: different terminal than the main LaGuardia terminal because they had

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Speaker 2: hourly flights not only to Atlanta but to d C

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Speaker 2: where I would go to shoot Larry King. And believe

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Speaker 2: it or not, they were so regular, almost like a bus.

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Speaker 2: For Pete's sake. I could be there within two hours

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Speaker 2: of leaving the studios in Manhattan. It was amazing. But

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Speaker 2: there's so many flights out of Logan to New York

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Speaker 2: and DC. That's a lot of investigation to find out

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Speaker 2: if she really did get on a plane.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 8: But you know, Nanthy, right from the very beginning, this

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Speaker 8: sounded odd because you're talking. This was New year Year's Day.

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Speaker 8: This was first thing in the morning on New Year's Day.

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Speaker 8: She had a party at her house that went until

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Speaker 8: about one o'clock in the morning New Year's Eve into

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Speaker 8: New Year's Day. A mother of three who claimed there

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Speaker 8: was an emergency at her realty firm in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we wait, let me, let me let's start right there.

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Speaker 2: Bob Ward is joining me from Boston twenty five mews.

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Speaker 2: I'm drinking out of the fireheiser from you, Bob Ward.

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Speaker 2: You're giving me so much information so quickly. So with

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Speaker 2: the three children, she was actually working in DC, living

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Speaker 2: in the Boston area, and what was her job in DC?

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Speaker 1: Was it a new job?

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 8: It was a fairly new job, you know. But she

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Speaker 8: had a job with an apartment down in d C.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what was her job in DC?

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Speaker 8: She was not a realtor, but she was some kind

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Speaker 8: of property manager.

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Speaker 2: That's it. That's what it was. Property manager. And hold on,

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Speaker 2: just a moment we all know. About getting a new job,

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Speaker 2: you feel like you've got to do whatever they want

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Speaker 2: to make that great impression so they don't say, Wow,

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Speaker 2: we've got her on six months probation. We're going to

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Speaker 2: can her. She's not doing a very good job. I mean,

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Speaker 2: David Stuttard is with me right now, Guys. Now I

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Speaker 2: think of David Stutter as a motorman, as an APD

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Speaker 2: Atlanta Police Department officer, but now he is a very

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Speaker 2: well known lawyer. David Stutter. Do you remember your first

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Speaker 2: day on the job as a cop?

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Speaker 8: Absolutely?

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Speaker 9: I do.

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Speaker 10: And it was a long long time ago, nineteen to

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Speaker 10: eighty eight. And I do remember my first day, and

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Speaker 10: I was super excited, super enthusiastic and just wanting to

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Speaker 10: get out and stay in the world and.

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Speaker 2: Didn't want to screw anything up and land at some

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Speaker 2: desk assignment.

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Speaker 10: That's right. We were on a very strict six month

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Speaker 10: probationary period when we first started there, and any infraction

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Speaker 10: would cause you some difficulty right quick. So to your point, absolutely,

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Speaker 10: I was willing to do whatever I needed to do

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Speaker 10: to get that probationary career.

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Speaker 1: And then you put yourself through law skill.

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Speaker 2: Can you remember your first day working as a lawyer, like, man,

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Speaker 2: I'm gon unscrew this up.

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Speaker 1: This is nothing like being a cop.

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Speaker 10: That's absolutely right, the same sort of feeling.

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Speaker 11: I mean.

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Speaker 2: Karen Stark, you remember you would be with me on

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Speaker 2: the set at Court TV. Karen Stark is with me,

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Speaker 2: a renowned psychologists joining us out of the Manhattan jurisdiction.

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Speaker 2: She's at Karenstark dot com, Karen with the Sea. Karen,

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Speaker 2: You'd be with me on the set at Court TV,

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Speaker 2: and my stomach would be churning to figure out if

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Speaker 2: I can make that flight to get to Larry King's

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Speaker 2: studios in Washington to get on the air, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I would make it. I don't think I ever

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Speaker 2: did not make it. But when you've got a new gig,

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Speaker 2: you'll do anything. And if they told me, hey, you

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Speaker 2: got to fly to d C to be on tonight.

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Speaker 2: I go, sure, I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: Just like this.

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Speaker 2: Woman, They go, hey, you got to fly down to

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Speaker 2: d C. We got an emergency. I don't care if

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Speaker 2: it's New Year's Day. And she would hop that plane

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Speaker 2: would do you agree with that?

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Speaker 9: I would agree with it, Nancy, And I remember those

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Speaker 9: days like it was yesterday, and you were always doing

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Speaker 9: above and beyond what you needed to do. I used

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Speaker 9: to watch Jo and Larry King because I couldn't believe

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Speaker 9: that you would make it, and you always made it.

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Speaker 10: But what pressure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of white knuckles and a cab trying to get

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Speaker 2: to LaGuardia Marine. So we're hearing from Bob Ward that

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Speaker 2: something wasn't right. But yet it was a new job,

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Speaker 2: so people talked it off. Well, you know, she's proving herself.

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Speaker 2: But then things even went more sideways. Take a listen

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Speaker 2: to our friends at Boston twenty five.

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Speaker 12: A Cohasset police log is shedding new light on how

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Speaker 12: the investigation first got started. It says a call requesting

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Speaker 12: a well being check was made on January fourth by

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Speaker 12: a man who identified himself as the head of security

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Speaker 12: at Honor Walsh's employer, in DC Tishman Spyer. The log

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Speaker 12: says Tishman Spyer contacted husband Brian Walsh before he reported

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Speaker 12: his wife missing. It explains that he told police on

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Speaker 12: a left for DC and he hadn't heard from her since.

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Speaker 12: According to the log on his phone, last pig on

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Speaker 12: January second at three fourteen am in Cohasset and hit

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Speaker 12: the tower on Reservoir Road in Cohacid, less than a

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Speaker 12: mile from the family's home.

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Speaker 1: Okay with me.

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Speaker 2: Very well known PI private investigator Tom Ruskin is with us.

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Speaker 2: Ruskin is president of CMP Protective and Investigative Group, Inc.

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Speaker 2: Former NYPD investigator, and you can find him at cmpdashgroup

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Speaker 2: dot com. Tom Ruskin, I don't like it when it's

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Speaker 2: your job calling to report you missing, not your family.

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Speaker 6: Correct. I mean it distinks to the high heavens. It

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Speaker 6: really does. Not to mention that it is a lot

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Speaker 6: easier now than when I joined the force before my

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Speaker 6: colleague in nineteen eighty two, to check flight records, to

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Speaker 6: check TSA records, to check different airlines. There's only a

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Speaker 6: certain number of airlines that would fly between her home

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Speaker 6: and Washington, DC, and it's very easy for the TSA

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Speaker 6: and Holy insecurity to go into those records now and

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Speaker 6: search for her name, her data, birth and see if

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Speaker 6: she A had a plane reservation, B did she clear

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Speaker 6: security with all the cameras that are in airports, and

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Speaker 6: C did she actually get on the flight?

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you something, Tom Ruskin, That's an excellent point.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't even thought of, because I remember going and

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Speaker 2: your life at this stutter, going to the greyhound bus

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Speaker 2: station in inner city Atlanta, trying to find out if

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Speaker 2: a particular woman who always into this day is still

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Speaker 2: a Jane Day by the way, who was murdered, if

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Speaker 2: she had gotten off of a Greyhound bus before she

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Speaker 2: was murdered by whom I believe to be a serial killer.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry. I got them on one one. He's still

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Speaker 2: in jail right now. Prison prison, not jail.

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Speaker 1: But it was so hard to.

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Speaker 6: Do, Tom Nancy. You'll also remember when you ran from

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Speaker 6: Court TV to the Marine Air terminal at Laguadi Airport.

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Speaker 6: You used to be able to run through no matainetometers.

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Speaker 6: You'd run on a Delta flight or People's Express flight

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Speaker 6: or Eastern back then, and you just jump on the

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Speaker 6: flight with a random ticket that you could say any hour. Nowadays,

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Speaker 6: you can't do that.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, tsa man.

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Speaker 2: They got to justify their existence and so they will

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Speaker 2: do a full long body cavity search if they feel

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Speaker 2: like it. It doesn't matter who you are. You know who

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Speaker 2: you get searched the most. My mother with a wheelchair

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Speaker 2: when we push her around the airport, even though she

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Speaker 2: can walk.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they love to hone in on my mom.

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth that said, you're right, Tom Ruskin, there's only a

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Speaker 2: couple of.

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Speaker 1: Air carriers that go between Boston and DC.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Anna Walts was reported missing

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Speaker 2: in January. A few weeks later, husband Brian Walsh was

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Speaker 2: arrested on charges including murder, misleading the investigators, and moving

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Speaker 2: a human body. His computer searches were damning, like how

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Speaker 2: long does it take a body to start smelling?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He is now being held behind bars pending trial. The

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Speaker 2: Anna Waltsch murderer is one of the most high profile

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Speaker 2: murder cases in recent years. Anna Waltz first reported missing

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Speaker 2: just after New Year's Day, and the search became more

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Speaker 2: and more desperate. What exactly do we know about Anna's disappearance?

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Speaker 2: The employer is reporting on a missing not her family,

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Speaker 2: but listen to this WBZ.

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Speaker 4: WBZ is obtained and verified audio of a voicemail left

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Speaker 4: by mister Walsh for one of Anna's friends. It's the

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Speaker 4: same day Anna was reported missing to police.

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Speaker 13: Said Brian Walsh, and hopeful is going well.

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Speaker 10: I just appreciated to basically everybody I could.

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Speaker 13: Anna hasn't been in touch for a few days. You know,

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Speaker 13: anyone that might have that contact with her. Just you

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Speaker 13: calling everyone.

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Speaker 4: So I've heard to bother you here everything fine.

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Speaker 2: So we do see the husband reaching out to her

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Speaker 2: friends and leaving voicemails for all of them, trying to

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Speaker 2: find out if they had heard from Anna.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now.

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Speaker 2: Julie lewis President and CEO of Digital Mountain, Inc. At

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Speaker 2: Digitalmountain dot com. Julie, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Tom Ruskin. The PI points out how much easier it

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Speaker 2: is to check flight records through TSA and even getting

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Speaker 2: subpoenas very quickly or asking the carrier like Delta to

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Speaker 2: check their records to find out if somebody made a flight.

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Speaker 1: So according to police, she didn't make that flight.

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Speaker 2: But what Julie lewis about ride share, lift Uber and

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Speaker 2: all the others Digitally wouldn't that leave a trail if

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Speaker 2: she had taken a right chair to the airport.

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Speaker 7: You can certainly contact the custodian of records at the

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Speaker 7: ubers the lists and types of companies that she would

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Speaker 7: have taken a ride share and find out that information

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Speaker 7: with legal due process and.

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Speaker 14: See what you know, what the actual fact pattern is there?

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Speaker 1: Well, what about her phone?

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Speaker 2: I mean most people get their right chair through their

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Speaker 2: phone app.

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Speaker 7: If you have access to her yes, if you have

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Speaker 7: access to her phone, you knew the whereabouts of that phone,

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Speaker 7: you would have access to the app, but most that.

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Speaker 14: Data would be stored in the cloud and pointing up

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Speaker 14: to the Uber application.

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Speaker 7: Not it might not be stored on the local phone.

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Speaker 7: So that's something to consider.

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Speaker 2: Got a question for you, Julie Lewis, if we don't

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Speaker 2: have her phone, but we do have her code, say

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Speaker 2: it's like everybody else in America their birthday or their

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Speaker 2: children's birthday, and we have the code for her phone,

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Speaker 2: can we get into the iCloud that way?

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Speaker 7: Typically you would need the user name, you would need

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Speaker 7: a password for the accounts, and you would also if

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Speaker 7: they have multifacturer authentication turned on the code from the text.

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Speaker 1: Message so a little harder than I thought. But you

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Speaker 1: know what we're talking about her.

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Speaker 2: Phone and where she Where is the husband during all

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Speaker 2: of this? Take to listen to our cut thirty five

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Speaker 2: Lynn Bi Lund talking, I.

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Speaker 11: Need to indicating our Jauary verse, not the threep. He

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Speaker 11: did some mearns and which was not his house in swamps,

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Speaker 11: but lost because he didn't have a swamp. He said

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Speaker 11: he knew he was lost when he saw a pirate

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Speaker 11: ship one root one defender state, stayed fifteen minutes, then

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Speaker 11: went to.

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Speaker 1: Whole Foods and CBS.

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Speaker 11: Savanas's checked and he did not enter either at those stores.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Bob Ward, Boston, twenty five on this the disappearance

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Speaker 2: of Anen Walsh since the beginning saw a pirate ship

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Speaker 2: en route one what okay, no, wait a minute, wait

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Speaker 2: wait wait wait, So he says the husband says he's

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Speaker 2: going to visit his mother and he gets lost on

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Speaker 2: the way to his mom's home, and when he sees

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Speaker 2: a pirate ship, he knows he's lost, but then goes

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Speaker 2: into Whole Foods of CBS even though he's lost.

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Speaker 13: What the pirate.

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Speaker 8: Ship is a landmark on the rout one area there's

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Speaker 8: that area of Swampskip where his mother lives. There are

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Speaker 8: some old landmarks, miniature golf places, restaurants, that sort of thing,

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Speaker 8: And I think that's what it was that he's talking about,

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Speaker 8: was a landmark that he saw that told him where

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Speaker 8: he was. And he said he got lost because he

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Speaker 8: didn't have a GPS on his phone with him, because

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Speaker 8: he's left it at home.

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Speaker 1: Karen Starry, I find that very unusual.

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Speaker 2: I've told that my twins is like the wizards and

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Speaker 2: their wands and Harry Potter, you don't go anywhere without it. Well,

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Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to me he didn't have a cell phone,

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Speaker 2: especially if he hasn't her from his wife. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 2: keep your cell phone with you at that time in

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Speaker 2: case she called?

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Speaker 9: Well, let's think about this, Nancy. How many people really

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Speaker 9: leave home these days without their phone.

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Speaker 1: It's it's improbable.

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Speaker 9: I have trouble believing that he accidentally left at home

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Speaker 9: and he knows that he's being watched. It seems to

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Speaker 9: me so he intentionally left that phone home. I have

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Speaker 9: no doubt about it. He's the nefarious character. He knows

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Speaker 9: exactly what he's doing.

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Speaker 2: In the search for Anna Walch local authorities find something

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Speaker 2: very unusual.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut forty.

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Speaker 11: Data from the phone also tracked his whereaboats on January third.

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Speaker 11: Locations were traveled at four twenty seven on January third

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Speaker 11: to an important complex in Abagen. So Veillance shows the

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Speaker 11: defendant's Bobbo as well as male fitting the dependent's appearance Exeter.

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Speaker 1: Cob near the dumpster.

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Speaker 11: He walks to the dumpster carrying garbage bag he's leaning

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Speaker 11: and it appears to be heavy as he has to

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Speaker 11: it keft it into the dumpster.

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Speaker 1: He walks to the dumpster.

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Speaker 11: With garbage bag and leaves it on full. Forty eight

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Speaker 11: he hit another complex in Avergeon and at five to

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Speaker 11: ten pm, cell phone shows records at another apartment that

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Speaker 11: brought Tom. Video shows a party consistent with his appearance

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Speaker 11: in his global again you Decided ims in the dumpster.

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Speaker 2: Bob Ward joining us from Boston twenty five on his

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Speaker 2: disappearance from the very beginning, I don't have a problem

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Speaker 2: with my husband throwing trash out there in the dumpster

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Speaker 2: outside our house, but when he starts going from one

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Speaker 2: dumpster to the next dumpster, to the next dumpster to

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Speaker 2: the next dumpster, all in within a one hour period.

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Speaker 2: That concerns me. And you know who reminds me of

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Speaker 2: and you're gonna know this name very well. Jennifer Dulo's

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Speaker 2: the missing Connecticut mom of five. Remember her husband, Fotus

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Speaker 2: Dillos and his mistress. They're going all around town dropping

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Speaker 2: off items and they're caught on surveillance video. Why is it,

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Speaker 2: Bob Ward, maybe you can shed some light on this.

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Speaker 2: Why is it that when a woman goes missing, her

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Speaker 2: husband suddenly turns into a knee nick and he has

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Speaker 2: to throw out the trash.

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Speaker 8: Good question, Nancy, I think we know the answer to.

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Speaker 8: And that's the allegation here. Sadly, that January third incident

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Speaker 8: that you just played the cut from the dumpsters in

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Speaker 8: the South Shore and Abington and Brockton. What we're going

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Speaker 8: to find out in court that is, when the remains

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Speaker 8: of on A. Walsh are being discarded in those dumpsters,

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Speaker 8: those dumpsters eventually are brought to an incinerator in the

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Speaker 8: South Shore of Massachusetts, and within an hour of those

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Speaker 8: dumpsters being brought to that incinerator, they're destroyed. Onna Walsh's

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Speaker 8: remains have never been located, and the thought is that

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Speaker 8: they never will be because that's where those bags were brought.

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Speaker 8: The other trash bags that were recovered in this case

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Speaker 8: were brought to the north shore near that pirate ship

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Speaker 8: that we just talked about, and they were not brought

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Speaker 8: to an incinerator, but to a landfill they were found.

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Speaker 8: And it's inside I don't know from getting ahead of us,

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Speaker 8: but inside those trash bags is where the evidence, the

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Speaker 8: incriminating evidence has been located in this case.

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Speaker 2: Board, could you tell me everything you just said one

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Speaker 2: more time in very slowly. I think the gist is

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Speaker 2: that very quickly after husband Brian Walch visited these various dumpsters,

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Speaker 2: the dumpsters were cleaned out were the trash was picked

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Speaker 2: up and taken some to an incinerator and some to

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Speaker 2: the pirate ship. Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, Wait a minute, Karen Stark, have you

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Speaker 2: ever noticed how defendants weave in a tiny bit of

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Speaker 2: truth into their big fat lie the pirate ship?

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Speaker 9: I mean, that's what makes pathological liars so interesting, Nancy,

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Speaker 9: is because it's usually based on a hint of truth.

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Speaker 1: Right, like no smoke without fire.

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Speaker 9: There's a little bit of smoke, but the rest of

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Speaker 9: it they conjure up, and they're very adept at being

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Speaker 9: able to tell a lie that has a little bit

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Speaker 9: of true innet that a lot of fauted.

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Speaker 2: I like the rebetist conjure, I like a magician or

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Speaker 2: a wizard, because one moment on a Walsh is there

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Speaker 2: with witnesses at a New Year's Eve party, and the

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Speaker 2: next moment she's gone, Okay, Bob Ward joining me. Investigative

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Speaker 2: Report of Boston twenty five, tell me again what you

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Speaker 2: just said.

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Speaker 8: So on January third, Brian Walsh, according to the prosecutors,

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Speaker 8: is recorded on surveillance trying to dump trash bags into

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Speaker 8: dumpsters in the south Shore of Boston in the towns

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Speaker 8: of Abington and Brockton. The prosecution believes that those trash

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Speaker 8: bags that he was struggling with to get into the

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Speaker 8: dumpsters contained the dismembered remains of his wife, on A Walsh.

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Speaker 8: Shortly after he did that, those dumpsters were brought to

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Speaker 8: an incinerator in the south Shore. Within an hour of

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Speaker 8: those trash arriving at that incinerator, they were incinerated and

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Speaker 8: converted into electricity, and Anna Walsh's remains have never been found.

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Speaker 8: It's an absolutely horrific and gruesome part of this case.

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Speaker 8: The other half of it is that Brian Walsh did not,

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Speaker 8: allegedly did not discard of all the evidence in the

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Speaker 8: case on the south Shore. The allegation is that he

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Speaker 8: took his tools, the instruments that he used to dismember

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Speaker 8: his wife's body, along with some of her clothes and belongings,

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Speaker 8: and put them in other trash bags and discarded those

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Speaker 8: things in dumpsters on the north shore of Boston near

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Speaker 8: his mother's house, near that pirate ship. Those trash bags

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Speaker 8: have been recovered and those items are going to be

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Speaker 8: an important part of this case, in this trial when

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Speaker 8: it takes place.

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Speaker 2: And what do you believe Bob Ward were in those

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Speaker 2: trash bags in January?

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Speaker 8: What we've been told was that they found a hatchet,

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Speaker 8: a hack saw, they found a bloody rug, they found

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Speaker 8: Anna's product purse, they found the boots that she was

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Speaker 8: seen wearing at that New Year's Eve party, and Nancy,

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Speaker 8: they found her COVID nineteen card. It's absolutely stunning what

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Speaker 8: they found.

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Speaker 2: Joining me former APD Atlanta Police Department officer and.

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Speaker 1: Now lawyer, what rank did you get to startard?

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Speaker 6: I left?

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Speaker 10: There's an investigator. Nante's a homicide detective when I left.

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Speaker 2: Okay, David, have you ever had a case without a body,

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Speaker 2: a homicide.

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Speaker 1: Without a body?

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Speaker 10: Yes?

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Speaker 8: I had.

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Speaker 1: Can I just say that's a tough pill to swallow.

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Speaker 11: It is.

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Speaker 10: But fortunately even in those cases, and this guy look,

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Speaker 10: you know, as a homicide detective, I would have been

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Speaker 10: looking at this guy immediately simply based on the fact

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Speaker 10: that his wife gets on an airplane. She's apparently overdue,

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00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 10: he hasn't heard from her in three days. Only after

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Speaker 10: he is contacted by her employer does he make an

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Speaker 10: outcry about his wife. That'll. I mean, my wife gets

442
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 10: on an airplane, she travels frequently. If I haven't heard

443
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 10: from her a few minutes after she's supposed to touch down,

444
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 10: I get Frank. I mean, I'm calling every you know,

445
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 10: trying to call her and call her. This guy has

446
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 10: done nothing, but he's like a magnet for suspicion. I mean,

447
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 10: he's going out, he's talking about this pirate ship, you know,

448
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 10: and not to mention all of this physical evidence that's located,

449
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 10: which to my point is, you know, even the most

450
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 10: careful criminals, when they commit these kinds of crimes, it's

451
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 10: almost impossible to do it without leaving some sort of

452
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 10: forensic physical evidence behind. And this guy has left a

453
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 10: mountain of it.

454
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: I mean, and could you here's another thing, Julie Lewis,

455
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: I want to circle back to you just a moment

456
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: about possible NAV systems on his car. But Tom Rusk

457
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: in joining me and then don't want Karen start to

458
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: weigh in on.

459
00:25:58,600 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: This as well.

460
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: Tom Ruski guys private investigator or extraordinay, President of CMP

461
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: Protective and Investigative Group. Tom listen, I don't like jewelry.

462
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: I really don't like fancy clothes. I don't like fancy cars.

463
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: But if you were to take let's just say, this

464
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: little ring right here, this is made of my mother

465
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: in law's jewelry. Okay, it's very thin, it's not be jeweled,

466
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: But if you were to take that, I would come

467
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: after you, all right.

468
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: There are just some things that would matter to me.

469
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 2: And I've got a funny feeling this woman would not

470
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: want her fancy boots and her product hers thrown out.

471
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 6: No, and it would be weird if she had left

472
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 6: and left for a business trip, if she didn't take

473
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 6: those with her, that they wouldn't be behind in the

474
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 6: house and be discoverable. This guy is definitely lead, the

475
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 6: prime suspect and probably will be convicted at trial. The

476
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 6: fact of the matter is, to the other gentleman's point,

477
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 6: you don't need a body anymore to prove a case.

478
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: It sure helps, though, man, come on, Ruskin, I mean, yeah,

479
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: you don't need a body. I'm not going to give

480
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: him a gold star for getting rid of the body.

481
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: And again, he hasn't been proven guilty. We're just hypothesizing

482
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: on the evidence that we have. But its sure, as

483
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 2: hegg helps if you do have a dead body to

484
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: prove a murder case.

485
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 6: But it also goes against him because we know that

486
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 6: he was in these yards, he was dumping stuff. What

487
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 6: is he doing dumping her garbage? What's the matter? His

488
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 6: pickup's not working at his house?

489
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: Karen starts, He's so right. And Karen, again, I threw

490
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: this to Stuttard earlier. I think, but why do you

491
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: guys turn into nat nix as soon as their wives disappear?

492
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: And again, like Stutdard said, and like Ruskin is saying

493
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 2: about the trash, it defies the course of normal human conduct.

494
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: He doesn't check on his wife to see if she

495
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: landed her employer has to call looking for her.

496
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: And then he wants to take out the trash.

497
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: Fine, do it at the corner at the end of

498
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: the driveway or the trash ute in your apartment in Manhattan.

499
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: But why do you go to five or six different dumpsters?

500
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 2: And because somebody just surprised me wants and not throw

501
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: bloody rags and towels in a dumpster.

502
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: Do something different?

503
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 9: What always happens?

504
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 13: Nancy.

505
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 9: He believes he's not going to get caught, and this

506
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 9: looks suspicious, so suspicious. I mean he gets lost going

507
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 9: to his mother.

508
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: He didn't get lost.

509
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: He's trying to explain his circuitous route from one dump

510
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: to the.

511
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 9: Next, and also saying that he went to places where

512
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 9: they could check and he did not go.

513
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 6: So, Nancy, can I jump in for one second? Yes,

514
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 6: I just want to bring Wilso bring up the fact

515
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 6: this is a woman. Let's assume that the husband has

516
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 6: nothing to do with her murder. This is a woman

517
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 6: who's going to take a flight, supposedly from Boston to

518
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 6: Washington on a business trip. Why is her phone off?

519
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 6: No one that travels myself, my loved ones, my family. Well,

520
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 6: we go to the airport, you show off your phone

521
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 6: once you're on the flight, and you turn it on

522
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 6: to mister Startard's point once you land, why is she

523
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 6: becoming all of a sudden surreptitious or becoming covert in

524
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 6: her actions? You're right, which sort of deflies the logic

525
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 6: of the husband.

526
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: Tom Ruskin, private investigator. You're absolutely right.

527
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't guess any of you people on

528
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: this panel have read Don't Be a Victim written by

529
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: Oh what's that girl's name?

530
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: Oh Nancy Grace.

531
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: You're supposed to like take a picture of when you're

532
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: in the parking deck, which I do and send in

533
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: my family, and then when I get on the plane,

534
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: I take a picture i'm on the plane and send

535
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: to them. You don't even have to write a text

536
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: or write words, but just let people know where you're going. Jackie,

537
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 2: I think I've even sent them to you before. Yes, okay, guys,

538
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: that's not the end of it. But I want to

539
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: ask Julie Louis Something, President and CEO of Digital Mountain Inch. Julie,

540
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: what about I like to just say on Star as

541
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: a blanket nav description, wouldn't.

542
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: His car show everywhere he had been? If it were you?

543
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: Know anything older than twenty ten.

544
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 7: So before I jump into that, I just you were

545
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 7: talking about pictures and there was.

546
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 14: Supposedly a picture she photographed of herself with her wedding

547
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 14: ring off in some of her final photos, and so

548
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 14: within that picture there's things called excess data that you

549
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 14: can look for that potentially could have geolocation information about

550
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 14: where she was when the picture was taken.

551
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: See that is why you're the expert. I didn't even

552
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: catch that, Julie Lewis so.

553
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 14: Switching gears to the car. You know, the car is

554
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 14: a moving computer these days. On most cars with why

555
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 14: buy has GPS, it has a cell network, all these

556
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 14: things that you can use for tracking. So if Brian's

557
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 14: car has has that in it, law enforcement could have

558
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 14: certainly used that information. The other thing that happens in

559
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 14: cars is a lot of people think their phones and

560
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 14: so text messages, contacts, you know, browser.

561
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 7: History, all these things may be on that on the car.

562
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 14: Now.

563
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 7: You know, for example, if you rent a car, even

564
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 7: that information can be on that. So that's something that's

565
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 7: really important to note.

566
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: You mean, when you charge your phone in a car,

567
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: the car can track everything that you have written on

568
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: your phone during.

569
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 7: That time, it could be thinking like when you when

570
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 7: you are in an Uber your playlist.

571
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 14: Depending on the configuration, it could actually download that. So

572
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 14: you don't want to go in some stranger's car rental

573
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 14: car and plug it in because the car and votainment

574
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 14: system could be grabbing and capturing some information from your phone.

575
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, I can't believe what's happening.

576
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: What does the Karen read prosecution have to do with

577
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: the Anna Walsh murder? The facts in Anna's disappearance and

578
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: murder and likely dismemberment are overwhelming. Will her husband walk

579
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: free because the lead investigator in the Ann A Walsh case.

580
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: Also worked the Karen Reid case? Oh no.

581
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: When I say the evidence is strong in the Anna

582
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: Walsh disappearance and murder case, I really mean it.

583
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: What do we know about Google searches?

584
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: I mean what an idiot? I just can't stress this enough.

585
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut thirty six. This is

586
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: Land Blan talking.

587
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 11: On January first, offenitive Google using a son's iPad.

588
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: Some of his searches are as follows.

589
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 15: Keep in mind that.

590
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 11: The pendant said he left at sixty six am at

591
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 11: four fifty five am on January first, he searched how

592
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 11: long before a body starts to smell?

593
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: How long before a body starts to smell? Okay, keep going?

594
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 9: Eight am?

595
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 11: How to stop a body from decomposing? At five twenty

596
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 11: am he searched how to bound the body? At five

597
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 11: forty seven am. Ten ways to dispose of a dead

598
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 11: body if you really need to. At six twenty five

599
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 11: am on the first, how long for someone to be

600
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 11: missing to inherit?

601
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: At six thirty four am on the first, can you

602
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: go away?

603
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 12: Body?

604
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: Pots? Okay?

605
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 2: I think need Doctor Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Terrance

606
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 2: County Lecturer, University, Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School.

607
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Let

608
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: me just ask you a couple leads, and I'd like

609
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: to point out also this is food for thought for you.

610
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 2: Karen Stark, psychologist on his son's iPad, Like they don't

611
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: know how to read the search history, and there's daddy searching.

612
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: How long before a body starts to smell? How do

613
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: you stop a body from decomposing? How to get rid

614
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: of a body? Ten ways to dispose.

615
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: Of a dead body if you really need to. I'm

616
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: glad he had to check that on at the end.

617
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: How long before how long for someone to be missing

618
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: to inherit? That's not for you, Crowns. Can you throw

619
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: away body parts?

620
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: Okay?

621
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: I'm starting to agree with Tom Ruskin and David Stutter

622
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: that you don't need the dead body to prove that

623
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: someone is dead. Doctor Kendall Crowns, can you give me

624
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: some quick answers to those this is a lightning round

625
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: for you.

626
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: How long before a body starts to smell?

627
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 13: Doctor Crown's for to ten days?

628
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: That just rolled off the tip of your tongue.

629
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask why how do you stop

630
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: a body from decomposing?

631
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 13: Refrigeration? I mean, you look at it. That guy they

632
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 13: found in the iceberg ot see the iceman. He was

633
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 13: missing for a thousand years and he's stuck in the icebergs. Really,

634
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 13: refrigeration is the best way to prevent a body from decomposing.

635
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 2: Ten ways to dispose of a dead body if you

636
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: really need to.

637
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: That's not a medical question. Let me go to the

638
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: next medical question. Can you throw away body parts?

639
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 13: You have to, you know, if you don't want the

640
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 13: trash man to notice some putam and dumpsters like which

641
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 13: was possibly done in this case, and then dismember the

642
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 13: individual into small enough parts that they aren't recognizable as

643
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 13: human and then mix them in with other trash. And

644
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 13: another good way is to put them in. I think

645
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 13: it's like these pool chemicals that can melt the body

646
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 13: parts down into kind of a sluge.

647
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: You know, Doctor Kendall Crowns, you're actually mane scaring.

648
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: Many people that are listening to you right now putting

649
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: it in pool. Waite a minute, Karen start. I know

650
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: you've got something toad. Hold on. What did you say

651
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: about pool cleaner, Doctor Kendall Crowns.

652
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 13: There's a certain chemical they use. I believe it's in

653
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 13: pool cleaning or something else. I can't think of it

654
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 13: off the top of my head. But it'll actually dissolve

655
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 13: the dismembered body parts down relatively, it'll dissolve the bone

656
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 13: as well, and it'll just kind of make this kind

657
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 13: of ooze. Then you have to dispose of that.

658
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're on the right side of the law,

659
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns.

660
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: I really am.

661
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: But guess what, guys, there's more Take a listen again

662
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: to lend biland at nine twenty nine AM.

663
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 10: What does from aldehyde do?

664
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 11: At nine thirty four one?

665
00:36:59,200 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 14: First?

666
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 11: How long does then a list?

667
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 9: At nine fifty nine am.

668
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 11: Can identification be made when passion remains? At eleven thirty

669
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 11: four AM? Dismendment and the best ways to dispose of

670
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 11: the body at eleven forty four?

671
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 14: How to pen blood from wood and flu at.

672
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 11: Eleven fifty six on the first M and all to

673
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 11: detect blood at one oh eight?

674
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 13: What happens when.

675
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 11: You put body pots in a moment at one twenty

676
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 11: one PM is better than throw crime scene close away

677
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 11: or wash them? Those one the general worst?

678
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, just know that while some of these questions

679
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: are so.

680
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: Rudimentary, they are cruel and horrible.

681
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: And three little boys are left without their mother while

682
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: this guy is googling what does for meldehyde do? How

683
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: long does DNA last? Can an ID be made on

684
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: partial remains?

685
00:37:59,719 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: Member?

686
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 9: Meant?

687
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: Best ways to dispose of a body? What happens when

688
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: you put body parts in ammonia? Should you throw away

689
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: crime scene clothes or wash them?

690
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 7: So?

691
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: To doctor Kendel Crown's Lightning round, Dctor crowns how long

692
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: does DNA last.

693
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 15: You can find the nams on surfaces for years. We

694
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 15: just from aldehyde do from aldehyde is a fixative also,

695
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 15: that's what you use to kind of pickle the organs

696
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 15: to keep them preserved for a long periods of time.

697
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: What happens when you put body parts anemonia? Doctor Kendl

698
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 2: crowns that one.

699
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 13: I don't know. That's a new one to me as

700
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 13: far as I know, I've stopped.

701
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: You're out, No, don't go, I've got more.

702
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: Oh well, one more quickie from Lynn blund to listen

703
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: one can R three That.

704
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 11: Same day at one o two pm to do some

705
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 11: more Google searches. What happens to hear on a dead

706
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 11: body at one thirteen pm? What is the rate of

707
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 11: decomposition of the body in a plastic bag compared to

708
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 11: on a service in the woods at one pm?

709
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 1: To eighty soda mask? Or maybe hey, body is not good?

710
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: Can baking soda make a body? A dead body smell good?

711
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: These Google searches have led to a bombshell.

712
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: Development in the search for Anna Walch. Bob were joining me?

713
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: Boston twenty five News an indictment explain.

714
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 8: Who was indicted on three counts? There was murder, misleading investigators,

715
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 8: and improper disposal of a body. Natcy Can I just

716
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 8: say one thing about the internet searches, and it's one

717
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 8: thing that has just absolutely haunted me when I go

718
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 8: back over this timeline and you realize that there was

719
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 8: a New Year's Eve party, that there were three people

720
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 8: at this party. It was Brian Anna, and they had

721
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 8: one guest in the house, and that guest left the

722
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 8: house somewhere between twelve thirty and one o'clock in the morning.

723
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 8: That first church. How long before a body starts to

724
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 8: smell is at four fifty five am. On A Walsh

725
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 8: was alive at one o'clock in the morning, and at

726
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 8: four fifty five am she's gone and that search is done,

727
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 8: and I just think about that and I think that

728
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 8: she's in the house. They also found we haven't talked

729
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 8: about this in the district court arraignment. They said that

730
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 8: they found blood in the basement and they found I

731
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 8: think it was two bloody knives, one broken bloody knife

732
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 8: in the basement and a heavy smell of ammonia in

733
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 8: the basement of the house. So you know, I'm picturing

734
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 8: in my mind that her body is there in the basement.

735
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 8: He's killed her, and he goes and he finds his

736
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 8: kid's iPad and he's doing these searches within a couple

737
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 8: of hours of his wife being there, someone that he loved,

738
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 8: And this is what he is doing. I had a story,

739
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 8: I broke a story about how he threatened to kill

740
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 8: her back in twenty fourteen. And here he is, in

741
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 8: the first day of twenty twenty three, in the house

742
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 8: with her dead body and he this is she isn't

743
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 8: even cold, and he is already coming up with this

744
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 8: plan on what to do with her remains. I you know,

745
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 8: the depravity of this case. I've been doing this for forty years,

746
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 8: and the depravity of this case to me is really

747
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 8: just off the charts.

748
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 2: The three children, the three little boys, now no mom

749
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: and potentially no dad at home either. Not that it matters,

750
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 2: motive never has to be proven in court, but mom,

751
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 2: why why did.

752
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: He do this?

753
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 8: There's another There's another detail here too, And from talking

754
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 8: to investigators, the New York Post had this, this picture

755
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 8: you all may have seen, and I talked to an

756
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 8: investigator about this. There was a champagne, a box of

757
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 8: champagne from the party that the New York Post got

758
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 8: a picture of that was that was on the dining

759
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 8: room table. I went knocked on the door or when

760
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 8: before all this blew out, Before everything happened, I was

761
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 8: trying to talk to Brian. I did you know when

762
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 8: she was missing?

763
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 10: And we didn't know what we.

764
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 8: Were getting ourselves into, really really early on, and I

765
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 8: could see inside and the Christmas tree was still set

766
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 8: up and it was still lit. You could see inside.

767
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 8: I didn't see what I'm about to describe to you

768
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 8: because the police hadn't done their search yet. So they

769
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 8: found a bottle of champagne and I was still in

770
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 8: its box, and the New York Post got a picture

771
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 8: of this, and on the side of the box on

772
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 8: a Walsh had written a note to Brian on New

773
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 8: Year's Eve that said, to Brian, we made it through

774
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 8: twenty twenty two. It was a tough year, but twenty

775
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 8: twenty three is going to be a great year. I

776
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 8: love you, Anna, and it had hearts written on it.

777
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 8: And the investigator that I spoke to said they believed

778
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 8: that that was her. Those are her last words to

779
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 8: the world. And when I look at there's another Internet

780
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 8: search here from December twenty seventh. They did not describe

781
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 8: where the Internet search was found, so they didn't say

782
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 8: if it was on the kids iPad or it was

783
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 8: on a phone or a computer. But all it said

784
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 8: was the best state for a divorce for a man.

785
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 8: So that's from December twenty seventh, when Honor still alive,

786
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 8: before the New Year's Eve party. And it makes me

787
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 8: wonder if Anna, if this, whatever happened, whatever happened New

788
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 8: Year's Eve, if Anna never saw this coming just came

789
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 8: out of the blue. I think because the story that

790
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 8: I broke about the threat that she complained back in

791
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 8: twenty fourteen, before they were engaged, they were just dating.

792
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 8: She complained to DC police that he threatened to kill

793
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 8: her in twenty fourteen. I think, and I know investigators

794
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 8: think that this is a domestic violence case and there's

795
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 8: an escalation that started then in twenty eighteen, there's a

796
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 8: selfie picture of her where she's pointing at a bruise

797
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 8: on her face and she said that she walked, she

798
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 8: fell at work or something. It's on one of her

799
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 8: Instagram accounts, and I think there was an escalation of

800
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 8: domestic violence. I don't think the police were ever called,

801
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 8: but something happened was going on behind the scenes, and

802
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 8: this is going to be one of the things that

803
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 8: I'm going to be watching for to try to understand

804
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 8: what happened here and how this exploded, because you don't

805
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 8: you don't get to this kind of and this hatred

806
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 8: to you know, I can understand a moment of passion

807
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 8: of murder of you know, a moment of anger, but

808
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 8: this dismemberment and this depravity that we see here and

809
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 8: these messages that are caught on the iPad and then

810
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 8: what we've been talking about with the disposal of the body,

811
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 8: it's almost too much.

812
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 2: What does the Ana Walsh and murder prosecution have to

813
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: to do with the Karen Reid hung jury.

814
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: One thing, the.

815
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: Lead investigator, Michael Procter, we wait as justice unfolds.

816
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,