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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: The water in the Gulf of Mexico is warm in

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Speaker 1: the summer, but my girls will wade into it any

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Speaker 1: time of the year, even if it's freezing. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why we come here. We like to

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Speaker 1: visit Portoransas in August, right before their school starts, which

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Speaker 1: is what we did in twenty seventeen. But we missed

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Speaker 1: one of the worst times in the history of the

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Speaker 1: Texas coast by one week. NPR affiliate KUT show The

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Speaker 1: Texas Standard reported on Hurricane Harvey.

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Speaker 2: I'm David Brown as cleanup cruise converge on Houston, just

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Speaker 2: a bit to the east. It's still very much rescue

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Speaker 2: mode from the heart of the Golden Triangle. This is

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Speaker 2: the Texas Stamp.

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Speaker 1: Becky Fogel did a story on the impact Hurricane Harvey

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Speaker 1: had on foster kids.

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Speaker 3: The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services says twelve

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Speaker 3: hundred foster children were safely relocated as a result of

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Speaker 3: Hurricane Harvey. Patrick Crimmins as a spokesperson for the child

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Speaker 3: welfare agency. He says they began to prepare as soon

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Speaker 3: as they knew the storm was coming.

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Speaker 4: One of the things about this that we were concerned

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Speaker 4: about was that a lot of our residential capacity for

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Speaker 4: foster kids is in the Corpus Christie, South Texas Houston area.

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Speaker 3: That includes residential treatment centers that provide in house counseling

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Speaker 3: and mental health services for foster kids.

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Speaker 1: Foster care will become pivotal to the story of Dorothy

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Speaker 1: Simon's family. Hurricane Harvey caused an incredible amount of damage

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Speaker 1: in Rans's Pass, where the Simons once lived. I talked

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Speaker 1: with newspaper publisher John Bowers about the storm.

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Speaker 5: Tell me about the hurricane, what the impact of the

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Speaker 5: hurricane was specifically on Aransas Pass.

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Speaker 6: It was a Category four storm came through Port Rams

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Speaker 6: flattened Port ranas the eye that came between Aranas Pass

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Speaker 6: and rock Port. But we got hit real hard.

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Speaker 1: And John says that it ripped apart the office of

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Speaker 1: the town's only newspaper, the Aransas Pass Progress.

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Speaker 6: When I opened the front door of the carpet was

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Speaker 6: warped out, out of shape, like water had been standing.

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Speaker 6: All the furniture had gotten wet and was pretty much ruined.

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Speaker 6: It smelled terrible what it was like, but anyway it was.

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Speaker 6: The interior was totally messed up, totally destroyed, and now

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Speaker 6: our fighting a virus on top of that.

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Speaker 1: Luckily, by twenty seventeen, John had sent most of his

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Speaker 1: old newspapers to a university to get digitized. John calls

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Speaker 1: his archive of newspapers the morgue.

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Speaker 6: All my morgue went to unt Okay, all of it.

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Speaker 6: And it's a good thing it did, because a hurricane

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Speaker 6: would have destroyed it. Yeah, because a hurricane peel Larufa

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Speaker 6: up right over where my morgue was. And so the

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Speaker 6: papers were gone. And I sent it all up to

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Speaker 6: you and t because I wanted it skin and put

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Speaker 6: on the website.

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Speaker 1: So all of those newspapers from the Progress were saved.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure I would have been able to

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Speaker 1: do this story if he hadn't done that. I found

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Speaker 1: dozens of articles online about the murder of Dorothy Simon's

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Speaker 1: but once her boyfriend Newton Yorberry was free, Dorothy's story

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Speaker 1: began to disappear. Toward the end of fall nineteen thirty one,

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Speaker 1: there seemed to be a sense of normalcy in Ramsa's past.

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Speaker 1: The district attorney had tried Newton Yarberry twice for Dorothy's murder.

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Speaker 1: Both trials had ended and hung juries Newton was now free,

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Speaker 1: but nothing was normal in the Simon's home. The months

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Speaker 1: after Dorothy's murder were incredibly painful for her entire family.

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Speaker 1: Agnes and Howard's marriage grew increasingly trained and hostile. They

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Speaker 1: both seemed so different, very angry. They no longer fit

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Speaker 1: into the community The Yarberries had won. Dorothy's death seemed

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Speaker 1: insignificant to most people in Ramsa's pass How could no

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Speaker 1: one have been punished for this? Dorothy's bedroom was empty

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Speaker 1: and dark, the hallways were quiet. The vacant seat at

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Speaker 1: the breakfast table was a constant reminder of her absence.

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Speaker 1: While the Simon's family remained isolated, those who cared for

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Speaker 1: them prayed that the family would eventually make peace with

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Speaker 1: what happened. Wishful thinking, We're at a point in the

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Speaker 1: story that I find particularly painful. I mentioned that we'd

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Speaker 1: be taking some dark turns this season. This is another one.

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Speaker 1: After the murder trials were over, Agnes Simons was left

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Speaker 1: to cope. She was emotionally shattered, and as hard as

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Speaker 1: she tried, the pain was too much. Agnes suffered from

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Speaker 1: a nervous breakdown. She cried, she raged, and she seemed uncontrollable.

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Speaker 1: So Howard Simons did what many husbands did when their

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Speaker 1: wives seemed too emotional or even just uncooperative. He had

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Speaker 1: her committed to a mental health facility. In the nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 1: and for hundreds of years before then, it was legal

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Speaker 1: for men to institutionalize women for acting depressed, or for

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Speaker 1: lashing out, or for even not taking proper care of

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Speaker 1: other family members. Women were called hysterical and out of

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Speaker 1: control as an excuse to have them committed. It was

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Speaker 1: also a way for men to cover up abuse. We

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Speaker 1: saw that in the Gabby Petito case. The Moab City

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Speaker 1: Police Department released bodycam footage from officers who stopped Gabby

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend Brian laundry. They were on a cross

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Speaker 1: country road trip and were stopped in Utah in August

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. Someone had reported seeing Laundry hit Gabby.

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Speaker 7: What's your guys' names?

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Speaker 8: Gabby? Bryan?

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Speaker 6: Okay, what's going on?

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Speaker 8: Can I crying?

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Speaker 9: I'm sorry?

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Speaker 6: We've just been fighting this morning, some personal issues.

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Speaker 4: I was distracting him from driving.

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 10: Can I get you to step out of the vehicle

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Speaker 10: for me.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: On the bodycam footage, you can hear Gabby trying to

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Speaker 1: downplay the violence.

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Speaker 9: I don't know, we'd have been fighting one morning and

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Speaker 9: and he wouldn't let me in the car before, and

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Speaker 9: wouldn't he let you in the car down.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, but I'm perfectly calm all the time, and this

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Speaker 11: is a drug morning.

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Speaker 1: When the police talked to Laundry, he called her crazy,

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Speaker 1: a common description meant to discredit the victim in an

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Speaker 1: abusive relationship.

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Speaker 9: She just worked up because you're trying to get going

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Speaker 9: and get her big.

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Speaker 6: You want to tell me about those scratches on.

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Speaker 2: Your face, shut itself on her hand.

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Speaker 1: That's why I was pushing her away, as I said,

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Speaker 1: let's just take a breather, unless not, you know, go anywhere.

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Speaker 5: Let's just came down from it.

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Speaker 1: The work, and it worked. Police quickly accepted Laundry's framing

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Speaker 1: and turned their attention to Gabby's personality.

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Speaker 6: Is he use a pretty patient with him?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but.

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Speaker 6: I'm not talking about you with your life. But if

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Speaker 6: you know you have anxiety.

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Speaker 12: Look at the look at the situations you can get in.

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Speaker 12: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: The police missed the signals of domestic violence, and officers

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Speaker 1: released both of them. It would wind up being Gabby's

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Speaker 1: last chance to escape the situation.

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Speaker 8: So at this point, from what unless the guy's screaming

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Speaker 8: that he he's to go to jail and did something

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Speaker 8: to this girl, it sounds to me like see is

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Speaker 8: the primary aggressive man.

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Speaker 1: About a month later, Gabby's body was found Laundry had

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Speaker 1: murdered her, and then a month after that, Laundry's body

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Speaker 1: was discovered had died by suicide. In nineteen thirty one,

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Speaker 1: Agnes Simons was also called crazy. Howard claimed that she

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Speaker 1: needed help, and maybe she did. I asked Agnes's daughter

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Speaker 1: in law, Helen Simons, about Howard's decision.

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Speaker 5: What were the things that landed her in the institution

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Speaker 5: to begin with? What prompted Howard to have her institutionalized?

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Speaker 13: I don't know, other than if she heard someone putting

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Speaker 13: Dorothy down, that would have been the bottom for her.

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Speaker 5: But did Agnes talk to you at all about her

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Speaker 5: time in the institution.

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Speaker 13: Well, you hear so much about treatment and when someone

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Speaker 13: is incarcerated like that, and she said they treated me well.

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Speaker 13: In fact, she said I had treatments I talked to

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Speaker 13: doctor so and so. She mentioned the doctor's name for

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Speaker 13: about six months and he said, I was ready to

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Speaker 13: go home after she was there only about six months.

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Speaker 13: That's when she started working in the office of this hospital.

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Speaker 13: I said, what do you do in the office and

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Speaker 13: she said, well, just office work. If people came up,

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Speaker 13: they had to be admitted.

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Speaker 5: She couldn't check herself out.

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Speaker 13: No, because Howard had put her in there. I said, well,

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Speaker 13: I thought she said, Sheriff so and so, and she said, well,

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Speaker 13: the sheriff took me up there, but Howard had to

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Speaker 13: admit me and I could not leave with just the

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Speaker 13: sheriff taking me out. He had to take me out.

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Speaker 13: He had to sign me out because he was the

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Speaker 13: one that was in charge of me.

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Speaker 5: Sounds like Agnes really confided in you a lot more

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Speaker 5: than anybody else.

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Speaker 13: She lived with us for quite a while. She would

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Speaker 13: have treated people however they treated her, probably huh. And

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Speaker 13: if you were looked down on, because if you been

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Speaker 13: in an institution, that's just the way it was going

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Speaker 13: to be. And she couldn't anything about that. The only

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Speaker 13: thing she noticed about the friends, but she said, the

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Speaker 13: friends that I had were still friends when I finally

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Speaker 13: got back on my fate. But some of the kids

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Speaker 13: Joe played with he couldn't play with anymore.

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Speaker 1: Helen's husband, Joe was just a child when Agnes was institutionalized.

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Speaker 1: He must have been so frightened to see his mother

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Speaker 1: being taken away, and Howard Simons didn't make things easy

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Speaker 1: on his son. He actually made them much worse. While

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Speaker 1: Agnes was undergoing impatient treatment for mental illness, Howard put

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Speaker 1: Joe into foster care, but he allowed his other son, David,

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Speaker 1: to remain with him, which seems odd to me. Why

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Speaker 1: would Howard take David but not Joe. I asked David's

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Speaker 1: daughter Nancy about why that might have happened. Why only

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Speaker 1: take David?

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Speaker 14: Why do you think Howard made that choice to take

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Speaker 14: Dave and to leave Joe behind. I have no idea

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Speaker 14: because I do not have an understanding of what their

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Speaker 14: relationship was.

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Speaker 15: I know Dad his whole life.

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Speaker 14: It's curious because he thought that Joe was the chosen one,

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Speaker 14: and yet he was.

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Speaker 1: In foster homes while she was hospitalized. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: Agnes had any say about what should happen to her

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Speaker 1: own children, or if Howard had even told her that

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Speaker 1: he had broken up the family. Agnes grew bitter over

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Speaker 1: the years. She didn't get along with most people, but

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Speaker 1: Agnes's granddaughter Nancy remembers her fondly.

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Speaker 7: Tell me about Agnes, and you knew her.

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Speaker 14: I knew her as me, being the beloved granddaughter, the

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Speaker 14: oldest of the rest of the children. Therefore it was

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Speaker 14: someone that perhaps she could relate to more because the

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Speaker 14: other children were much younger. And I just remember her.

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Speaker 14: She was very, very kind to me. But we had

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Speaker 14: a different relationship than I'm sure she had with the

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Speaker 14: rest of the world. And I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 9: Howard, who sounds like might not have been the best

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Speaker 9: she who knows, I don't know.

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Speaker 14: I think he was a womanizer and my dad was

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Speaker 14: a momanizer. He was seeing women all the time on

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Speaker 14: the side. I mean, we didn't know what specifically growing up,

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Speaker 14: but in retrospect it's evident that that was the case.

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Speaker 1: That her understanding was that Howard was threatening to leein Agnes.

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Speaker 10: For years and you're not doing anywhere, You're.

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Speaker 4: Gonna stay here and help me, were to take kids.

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Speaker 3: That was a horrible situation.

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Speaker 15: Yes, yes, what a great partnership. Yeah, mm hm. And

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Speaker 15: being cynical.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Howard seemed to care far more about himself

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Speaker 1: than focusing on what would be best for his family.

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Speaker 1: He would eventually leave Agnes for another woman, but again,

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Speaker 1: I don't know Howard's sighed to all of this. Agnes

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Speaker 1: Simons showed her own personal grit and strength of character.

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Speaker 1: She finished her mental health treatment and was released from

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Speaker 1: the institution. By this time, Howard was gone. He left

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Speaker 1: David with Agnes and she took Joe out of foster care.

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Speaker 1: You might assume that David was happy with his father

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Speaker 1: he had been chosen. Not really, says his daughter Nancy.

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Speaker 1: She got the sense that her dad might not have

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Speaker 1: been better off with his father than Joe was in

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Speaker 1: foster homes.

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Speaker 14: Perhaps Dad was worse off, perhaps I don't know, living

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Speaker 14: with his father, who also apparently I don't know if

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Speaker 14: he was a womanizer or not, but I feel that

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Speaker 14: that could be the possibility. He had a temper and

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Speaker 14: Dad had a temper, So that was oil and water

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Speaker 14: to begin with. As far as the two of them

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Speaker 14: living together, that's all I know of that, Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 10: So do you feel like, you know, maybe talk a.

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Speaker 5: Little bit about your dad before your.

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Speaker 1: Dad had a lot of anger and a lot of drinking.

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Speaker 16: And a lot of that you.

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Speaker 5: Feel like had to do with maybe Howard or in.

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Speaker 8: What happened how life shifted after the Worthy died.

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Speaker 14: I think it was a combination of all of those

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Speaker 14: things and whatever DNA Agnes and Howard had passed down

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Speaker 14: to him, because both of them had very strong personalities themselves.

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Speaker 14: And we talk about alcoholism today and it being in

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Speaker 14: our DNA one way or another, and I know in

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Speaker 14: our entire family there has been alcoholism.

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Speaker 7: Tell me about that.

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Speaker 14: It's a combination of things in Dad. But he was

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Speaker 14: also combative. He was so angry and lashed out, and.

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Speaker 15: He definitely had that.

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Speaker 14: He was like five eight and cocky and would put

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Speaker 14: his fists up and be ready to take somebody on

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Speaker 14: in you know, a bar fight or that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: As I dug into the story, I often found myself

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Speaker 1: trying to piece together a picture of who Agnes Simons

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Speaker 1: really was.

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Speaker 17: She was born into.

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Speaker 1: A wealthy family in Indiana, and then she first married

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Speaker 1: a man far below her social status, Ralph Johnson. By

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Speaker 1: all accounts, he was an unreliable husband and a negligent

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Speaker 1: father to Dorothy, not to mention a potential criminal with

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Speaker 1: alleged mafia ties. And we also know what happened with

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Speaker 1: her second husband, Howard at the end of their marriage.

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Speaker 1: I asked Helen about why her mother in law seemed

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Speaker 1: drawn to men who might not have always treated her well.

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Speaker 7: Why do you.

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Speaker 5: Think she had such poor tastes in men at least

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Speaker 5: Ralph and Howard. She's from a wealthy family, intelligent. Why

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Speaker 5: she's drawn to these bad people.

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Speaker 13: I don't know. Unless they played up to her because

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Speaker 13: she was very intelligent.

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Speaker 5: Maybe naive, so you can be intelligent but still.

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Speaker 13: Naim and that might have been part of it, as

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Speaker 13: that very well could have been.

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Speaker 6: JB.

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Speaker 1: Simons, Agnes's grandson really admired his grandmother well.

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Speaker 8: She were crossbys puzzles all her life. She could work

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Speaker 8: a crossbird puzzle in what fifteen minutes?

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Speaker 13: And she worked him an ink something It always surprised me,

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Speaker 13: I said, I had to have a pencil with an eraser.

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Speaker 1: Agnes's life could have been happy despite everything she had

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Speaker 1: been through. She could have had years of contentment, playing

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Speaker 1: word games and enjoying time with her children and grandchildren.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what happened. Agnes never really recovered from

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Speaker 1: Dorothy's death or Howard's betrayal. Her grandson jab Simons wonders

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Speaker 1: if Agnes's suffering was so severe that his mother, Helen

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Speaker 1: instinctually tried to protect her by avoiding all talk about Dorothy.

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Speaker 8: I don't know. I really don't know. I have never

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Speaker 8: asked mom, as Grandma ever talked to you about Doroth

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Speaker 8: or anything like that. It just kind of left it

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Speaker 8: in the air. I really appreciate kicking up the dust

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Speaker 8: a little bit here, kid.

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Speaker 1: David's daughter Nancy, also believed that his grandmother Agnes suffered

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Speaker 1: mental agony so deep that she never recovered.

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Speaker 14: She was extremely devastated by the murder of her daughter.

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Speaker 14: All I know are stories because obviously I wasn't even

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Speaker 14: alive then. I know that Granddad apparently while she was

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Speaker 14: in the asylum, got hooked up with another lady and

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Speaker 14: eventually married her and dumped Agnes. I'm sure that changed

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Speaker 14: their life then, because Dad then was raised or half

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Speaker 14: raised whatever by Agnes after she got out of the asylum,

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Speaker 14: and meanwhile Joe was then put in foster homes all

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Speaker 14: along the way, so it was devastating to their entire family.

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Speaker 15: Definitely JB.

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Speaker 1: Simon says that once David and Joe and Agnes were reunited,

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Speaker 1: Agnes still didn't seem at peace. Life for the three

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Speaker 1: of them was really hard.

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Speaker 8: Grandma was just going through the paces of being a

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Speaker 8: mother that did the right things for her boys, even

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Speaker 8: though she had almost nothing. She took in laundry and

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Speaker 8: did ironing and that kind of you know, the typical

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Speaker 8: kind of things that you know, ladies did back in

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Speaker 8: the thirties forties. She worked at a drug store. I

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Speaker 8: think something up in Fort Wayne, And you know, Kate,

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Speaker 8: I think that the way that my grandmother lived her

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Speaker 8: life just her nose slightly above the poverty line. My

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Speaker 8: feeling is that she felt she deserved that in what

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Speaker 8: way that she should have been able to protect her daughter,

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Speaker 8: you know, classic kind of mother insinctual kind of things

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Speaker 8: when a child is killed or dies, and that she

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Speaker 8: just you know, became a sad and angry and resentful

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Speaker 8: old woman.

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Speaker 5: Do you think that if Dorothy had not been killed,

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Speaker 5: that Agnes would be would have been a different person?

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Speaker 13: Oh, my goodness, yes. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of many conversations with the Simon's family,

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Speaker 1: I started to see a pattern and I can't say

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Speaker 1: it surprised me. Sorrow and hurt deeply affected their lives,

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Speaker 1: everyone's lives. Dorothy's brother David seemed to be incredibly impacted.

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Speaker 1: He was a boy who began a promising life with

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Speaker 1: his family in Ransa's Pass. But after Dorothy's death, David

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Speaker 1: moved with Howard to another town and David became very angry.

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Speaker 1: We don't know why, and it's not fair for anyone

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Speaker 1: to speculate, but he returned to Ransa's Pass as a

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Speaker 1: troublemaker who developed into a troubled man. David's daughter Nancy

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Speaker 1: shared some painful family memories with me.

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Speaker 15: You know, you talked to.

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Speaker 3: Me a little bit about and.

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Speaker 16: He had issues.

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Speaker 15: And drinking issues. That's an understatement on both accounts. Yes,

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Speaker 15: that is correct, and it never changed and it get worse.

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Speaker 14: There was a Thanksgiving dinner where he would come home

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Speaker 14: drunk from some kind of something with work or whatever

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Speaker 14: and went out with the boys and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 14: One night, I still have a clear picture of him

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Speaker 14: emptying the refrigerator and throwing it against the dining room

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Speaker 14: wall and stuff splattering, the cranberry juice and everything running

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Speaker 14: down the wall where he was just angry and throwing

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Speaker 14: things and yelling, and that's that's how he lived his life.

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Speaker 15: And we tried to survive in the meantime. Was entire

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Speaker 15: time of it.

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Speaker 14: It was consistent until he began to get beat up

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Speaker 14: by emphysima from smoking too much the alcohol and began

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Speaker 14: to wind down some as far as being cranky and

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Speaker 14: angry and you know, combative because his body wouldn't let him.

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Speaker 15: But he was always cantankerous.

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Speaker 1: I've learned so much about internal family struggles while researching

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Speaker 1: Dorothy's story. Retired law school professor Linda Frost helped explain

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Speaker 1: how they can shift family dynamics when someone leaves the

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Speaker 1: family for any reason.

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Speaker 10: Really, what you're talking about is the impact of trauma.

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Speaker 10: And we know that trauma, if it's not addressed, can

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Speaker 10: have really significant and long lasting impacts, and that trauma

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Speaker 10: can be the event itself, it can be the fracturing

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Speaker 10: of the family afterwards, it can be removing somebody from

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Speaker 10: society through incarceration. There's all sorts of trauma in there.

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Speaker 10: Many times we're not good at addressing that or even

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Speaker 10: acknowledging that it exists.

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Speaker 1: I talked earlier about the Gabby Patito case and missing

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Speaker 1: White Woman's syndrome. The family trauma associated with cases that

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Speaker 1: still haven't been solved is a major issue, and for

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Speaker 1: some communities, crimes are even more likely to go unsolved

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Speaker 1: because they involve people of color. Natalie and Dereka Wilson

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Speaker 1: are sisters in law. We talked to them earlier about

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Speaker 1: their nonprofit organization, the Black and Missing Foundation. You might

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Speaker 1: have also seen their fantastic HBO special. I asked Natalie

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Speaker 1: about why she and Dereka started Black and Missing. Did

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Speaker 1: you all come up with this together? I know your

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Speaker 1: in laws. Is that how the organization started?

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Speaker 7: Well, the inspiration behind the Black and Missing Foundation there

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Speaker 7: was a young lady by the name of Tamika Houston

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Speaker 7: and she went missing from Derreka's hometown of Spartanburg, South Carolina.

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Speaker 7: And we were talking about how her family really struggled

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Speaker 7: to get media coverage and her aunt, who was in

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Speaker 7: my profession media relations, really struggle to get you know,

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Speaker 7: national media to cover her story. And Natalie Holloway disappeared.

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Speaker 7: I think it was a year later, and she dominated

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Speaker 7: the news cycle and you're shaking your head, so you

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Speaker 7: know who Natalie hollowing everyone else does, and we were

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Speaker 7: really heartened that Tamika couldn't get the coverage. I mean,

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Speaker 7: her aunt reached out to the same reporters, same news station,

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Speaker 7: same programs, and there were no interests in Tamika's story

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Speaker 7: at all.

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Speaker 1: Because she was a person of color. Tamika's body was

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Speaker 1: found a year later and her ex boyfriend confessed he

404
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Speaker 1: was sentenced to life in prison. Natalie and Dereka say

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Speaker 1: that research shows people of color make up about forty

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Speaker 1: percent of the missing population. They need help closing a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases. Natalie, can we talk about funding? What

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Speaker 1: do you all do for funding?

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Speaker 7: Well, right now, most of our funding comes from individual donors.

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Speaker 7: We are looking for a grant writer. But we can

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Speaker 7: do so much more as an organization and build our team,

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Speaker 7: bring more people on board if we had that financial

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Speaker 7: support from our community. So that's very, very important.

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Speaker 1: These aren't the only cases Black and Missing have worked on.

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Speaker 11: I think the perfect case with Sean in our documentary

416
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Speaker 11: with Kennedy High who went missing autistic teenager, and you

417
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Speaker 11: heard from the commander himself who didn't feel that her

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Speaker 11: case elevated to have more resources dedicated. They were not

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Speaker 11: actively looking for her, and it was very nochala and

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Speaker 11: very casual. It wasn't until you know, someone else got

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Speaker 11: involved in the department. It wasn't until we got involved

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Speaker 11: because her father reached out to us and so we

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Speaker 11: were applying pressure as well. So it really shows the

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Speaker 11: impact of media when her mother reached out to us,

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Speaker 11: utilized our partnership with the media to get her mother

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Speaker 11: the assistance.

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Speaker 15: That she needed.

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Speaker 11: That in turn applied pressure to law enforcement to dedicate

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Speaker 11: more resources to the case, and then you know, we

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Speaker 11: were able to find her. And I think what's so

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Speaker 11: important about her case is that the tipster contact our

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Speaker 11: organization and not the police well because again it goes

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Speaker 11: back to that lack of trust. They never took the

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Speaker 11: case seriously.

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Speaker 1: In the very beginning, Kennedy had been lured from her

436
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Speaker 1: school by someone on a dating app. Thankfully, she was

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Speaker 1: found alive five days later. Now Natalie and I talk

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Speaker 1: about Tamela Nicole Wells.

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Speaker 7: Tamala Wells, as a matter of fact, just spoke to

440
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Speaker 7: her mother yesterday. Tamala was forty three. She disappeared on

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Speaker 7: I believe it was August six of twenty twelve from Detroit.

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Speaker 7: You know, her mother has no idea what has happened

443
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 7: to her baby. I mean, even though she's a grown

444
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 7: home woman. I mean, she left a young daughter and

445
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 7: I believe a son behind, and no one has a

446
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 7: clue as to what happened to her. Her mother believes

447
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 7: it could be a domestic violence matter, but they don't

448
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 7: have any evidence to prove that.

449
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: And then she never hears anything else from the police.

450
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: Is that what happens in these cases?

451
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 7: That is what happened with Tamala's case. Even to today,

452
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 7: her mother is continuing the fight to get any type

453
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 7: of support from the police department, and she's getting the

454
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 7: run around, and she doesn't believe that they are taking

455
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 7: Tamala's case seriously. I mean, she's also investigating and providing

456
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 7: them tips that she heard from the community, and they're

457
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 7: not taking this case seriously. So she's very frustrated. She's

458
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 7: you know, heartbroken because it's been since twenty twelve that

459
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 7: Tamala has been missing, but she continues to fight to

460
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 7: find out what happened to Tamala.

461
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 1: And another potential case of domestic violence. It's unbelievable, you know.

462
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 11: No one disappears off the face of this earth without

463
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 11: a trace.

464
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Losing your child and possibly not finding out what happened

465
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: has to be devastating, And as we've said all along,

466
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: it can resonate across generations. And that's exactly what happened

467
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: to the Simons family. But what about Dorothy's accused killer

468
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: and the retired investigator who dug into her case. What

469
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: happened to them? It's time to wrap up some lingering questions.

470
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: I found out quite a lot about Newton. Seven years

471
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: after Dorothy's murder, he married a woman named Juanita Clara Macomb,

472
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: who was a year younger than he was. Two years later,

473
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: Newton was drafted to serve in World War II. When

474
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: that happened, he was still working for Humble Oil and Gas.

475
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: After the war, Newton stayed in Ransa's pass despite the

476
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: suspicions of some that he had gotten away with murder.

477
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty four, after sixteen years of marriage, Newton's

478
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: wife died at age forty five of cancer. Newton remarried,

479
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: but I couldn't figure out when his new wife was

480
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: named Ethel Francis Miller, and they never had any children.

481
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy two, Ethel died at age fifty eight

482
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: from lung cancer. Four months later, Newton was living alone

483
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: in their home on Saunders Street in Ransa's Pass. He

484
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: was sixty five and a retired construction worker. When neighbors

485
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: hadn't seen him for a while, they discovered Newton dead

486
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: inside his house. He had apparently been there for several days.

487
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: The coroner ruled that he died from heart disease, and

488
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: that was the end of the story for Newton Yarbury.

489
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about Bill Strain and his investigation into

490
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: this case. He told his wife very little about the

491
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 1: murder of Dorothy Simons. Did you get the impression that

492
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: he felt like he made any headway on that case?

493
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 16: I think, in an odd way, he probably felt deep

494
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 16: down that he might be a if you went back

495
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 16: into this case, find some something, you know, and answer

496
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,239
Speaker 16: the questions that he had about Dorothy's death. He was

497
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 16: completely obsessed with finding all that he could about her.

498
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: You used an interesting word, which is obsession, which is

499
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: of course common for people who are interested in true

500
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: crime to dig your fingers into a case. How from

501
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: your point of view, did that manifest itself?

502
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 16: You know, I knew he was perfectly happy where he

503
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 16: was all day and half the night on his computer.

504
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 16: I didn't knows around much, as I think of it,

505
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 16: He's always kind of had a little bit of a

506
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 16: secretive side where I'm concerned.

507
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: I have seen the binder. It is really impressive and

508
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: it's very, very thick. Did he talk to you about it?

509
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 13: No?

510
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 16: No, I don't even know that I've seen the binder.

511
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 16: I had no idea about this notebook thing. I don't

512
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 16: think i've ever seen that.

513
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: There's no big mystery about the binder, at least for me.

514
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: Michael Strain loaned it to me. It had every article

515
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: you could imagine about Dorothy and some photos of her.

516
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: Each item was carefully preserved and plastic. The last time

517
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: I met with Bill's son, I returned it to him.

518
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 4: Hi, how are you good?

519
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: We grab the book?

520
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 9: How goes it?

521
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 12: J Thank you?

522
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 17: How's been going on the podcast?

523
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: It's going well?

524
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: Just you know, plumb away.

525
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 6: I can you advise that you going on?

526
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 9: Oh?

527
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 15: I will absolutely thank you. I appreciate it.

528
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 13: Michael.

529
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: I wonder if Bill Strain just wanted to keep Dorothy's

530
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: memory to himself. Another woman he loved, even though he

531
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: was just a boy when she died. I asked Karen

532
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: Kilgareff about how true crime can affect people who aren't

533
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: directly connected. What have you heard as far as the

534
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: personal toll goes for people who just become fixated on

535
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: a case.

536
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 18: I can only really speak for like what I've observed

537
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 18: or what I've experienced myself, which is how you draw

538
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 18: those boundary lines in getting involved with something. And if

539
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 18: you even do, I think that's real sticky for like

540
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 18: an online sleuth, what haven't they thought of? What aren't

541
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 18: they looking at? Could fresh eyes actually make a difference.

542
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 18: It all becomes its own, its own mystery, and it's

543
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 18: almost the onion starts to peel and that becomes it's

544
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 18: the mystery within the mystery.

545
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: I asked Michael Strain to read from his father's blog again.

546
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: Remember Bill didn't have the benefit of reading the articles

547
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: about Newton that I read.

548
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 15: Let's get through this and.

549
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 5: Then we'll talk about the specific story when I began

550
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 5: this research, kind.

551
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 6: Of right in the middle.

552
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 17: When I began this research, I presume that if Newton

553
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 17: were guilty, he would distance himself from the crime. A

554
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 17: killer might move to California. But here we have Newton

555
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 17: remaining for the remainder of his life within three miles

556
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 17: of the crime scene. This testimony raises some very basic questions.

557
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 17: Was there some basic flaw within Newton that was never explored.

558
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 17: Was Newton mentally deficient so as to never learn to

559
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 17: drive or hold a job. Were Newton's parents so afraid

560
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 17: for his future that they kept him within arms reached

561
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 17: for the rest of his life.

562
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: Bill had a dream one night before he died in

563
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: January of twenty nineteen, there was a note on his

564
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: refrigerator that read, wrap it up, You're done. And from

565
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: that day forward, Bill Strain stopped researching Dorothy Simons.

566
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 15: Why don't these the lack of answers? Why didn't this driver?

567
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 15: Your dad crazy?

568
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 7: Did it?

569
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 17: Or I don't think so? You know, I think like

570
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 17: he said once he got that note on the refrigerator

571
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 17: door that said, you know, wrap it up, you're done,

572
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 17: he was done.

573
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: Michael later found some of those answers in an online

574
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: newspaper database. He discovered that Newton had gotten married, that

575
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: he had served in World War Two, and that he

576
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: had no children. Michael scanned the articles and made a

577
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: PDF for his father, But after decades of obsessing over

578
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: this case, Bill strain never bothered to open the file.

579
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 17: And you know these questions he asked there, those were

580
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 17: really answered to that PDF file I sent him. It's

581
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 17: not that hard to open up a PDF file. When

582
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 17: I went down with you, said Mike, can you open

583
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 17: up that PDF file? But it was really like he

584
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 17: didn't want to know that. You know, the answers were there,

585
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 17: but my dad died not knowing. And it was noble

586
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 17: I had the information, but it just you know, he

587
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 17: didn't pursue it.

588
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: I asked Michael to read one last blog, Entrigue, just

589
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: to sum up Bill's final questions.

590
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 17: Why did he have to kill you, Dorothy? Were you pregnant?

591
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 17: Was he afraid of his parents and what they would

592
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 17: do if they found out he was bringing home a

593
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 17: wife for them to support. Were you jealous Newton because

594
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 17: you saw Dorothy walking with another man? Or did you

595
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 17: have some deep genetic flaw and killer just to see

596
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 17: what it felt like? And of course there's the eternal question, Newton,

597
00:33:59,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 17: were you innocent?

598
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: That's a question we'll never be able to answer. One

599
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: nice thing came of all of this. Remember when Agnes's husband, Howard,

600
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: kept David and put Joe in foster care. It turns

601
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: out that wasn't a bad thing. Joe was placed with

602
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: several different families while he was in the system. He

603
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: integrated well and became friends with several of his foster siblings,

604
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: and the parents treated him with kindness and offered him

605
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: the love he might not have gotten at home. Joe

606
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: was actually upset when Howard agreed to bring him back home.

607
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: Joe's granddaughter, Kelsey Simons, is proud of her grandfather's tenacity.

608
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 12: He just took it in stride. It sounds like, which

609
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 12: is amazing to me. Like normally, like somebody who goes

610
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 12: through that at such a young age, being thrown through

611
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 12: foster care usually doesn't come out of it that well

612
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 12: put together. But knowing all that, I'm like, damn Grandpa.

613
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: Joe died in two thousand and five of lung cancer.

614
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: Joe's son JB says that his dad showed his wife

615
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: and children nothing but kindness and love and support.

616
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 8: I think one of the side effects her dad was

617
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 8: that family became everything that no matter how tough things got,

618
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 8: he would never ever abandon the family for any reason whatsoever.

619
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 8: Because what he went through.

620
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 1: On our last visit to the Texas Coast. I asked

621
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: my parents to go with me to Dorothy Simon's gravesite

622
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: in Aramsa's Past to understand why visiting this cemetery is

623
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: so important to the story. It's a cute little cemetery,

624
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: little buttercup things, sampers.

625
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 13: Brought by a major highway.

626
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 5: Well, probably went a major went a major highway when

627
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 5: she was buried.

628
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 15: Here, I guess.

629
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 17: It was probably a small dirt road.

630
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: It's small and on the side of a busy road.

631
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: It's not very well kept. But we finally found her marker.

632
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 8: This one here, yep.

633
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 9: Tell her wonder well, put them at the headstone. The

634
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 9: headstone there our parents or yeah, it was her parents.

635
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 9: All these pretty little wildflowers around here.

636
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 5: So Mom, you told me when we talk about things

637
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 5: about death and everything, that how important burial. You feel

638
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 5: like cemeteries are very important. Why do you feel like

639
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 5: it's important not for you personally to be buried, but

640
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 5: just you know, why is it important to have this

641
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 5: to come here?

642
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 9: People always want to feel like they're being remembered, no

643
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 9: matter how they died.

644
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 5: I don't know if this gets visited very much, no

645
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 5: fresh flowers or anything, but I don't know if I

646
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 5: don't think she has any family anymore around here.

647
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, but we found it. I think people always, people

648
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 9: always remember, as long as there are cemeteries and headstones,

649
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 9: and I think that's the point of it.

650
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 6: Sad, really really sad. A life cuts so sharp. Do

651
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 6: you expect things like that in war? But this just

652
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 6: a young lady trying to live her life.

653
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 9: And it ended in such a such a bad, bad way,

654
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 9: just a nasty, humiliating way that she was killed, and

655
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 9: the way she was left in that place.

656
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: Dorothy's niece, Nancy Coppage told me that despite all of

657
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: the echoes from Dorothy's murder almost one hundred years ago,

658
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: her family will always stay together.

659
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 14: It's a tough family, that's for sure. We're tough. We

660
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 14: power through, that's for sure.

661
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: Dorothy Simons died at eighteen, such a young age. She

662
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: could have done anything in life. With her lovely person

663
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: and her caring nature, Dorothy seemed to hold her family together.

664
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Speaker 1: And now so many more people know her story, and

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00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 1: I understand the loss. Before Bill Strain died, he said

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00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: that soon no one would know anything about Dorothy Simon's

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00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: her story would vanish, and she wouldn't even be a

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Speaker 1: memory to anyone, I hope not. Thanks for joining us

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00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: on these three seasons of tenfold More Wicked. Next Monday,

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00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: listen to our trailer for our new season of Wicked

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00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: words on exactly Right. On that show, I interview journalists

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00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: and writers about their most important true crime stories. My

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00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: new book, All That Is Wicked is available for pre

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00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: order now, including the audiobook. All that Is Wicked is

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00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: based on our first season of tenfold More Wicked. You

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00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: might think you know the whole story of killer Edward

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00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: Ruloff's crimes, but there's so much more. My book American

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Speaker 1: Sherlock is also available.

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00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 15: This has been an.

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Speaker 1: Exactly right tenfold war. Media production producers Jason Whaling, Laura Soble,

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00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: and Alexis M. Morosi. Co writers Laura Soble and Kate

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00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: Winkler Dawson, sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork

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00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: Nick Toga. Executive producers Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Daniel Kramer.

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Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold More Wicked

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00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at tenfold More And If you know

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00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 1: of a historical crime that could use some attention. Email

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00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: us at info at Tenfoldmorewicked dot com. Listen, subscribe and

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Speaker 1: leave us a review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget you can

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Speaker 1: hear every episode one week early and ad free by

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Speaker 1: some describing to Wondry Plus and the Wondry App