1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty six, Yon Winner, suburban Jewish son of 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: a businessman, dropped out of Berkeley. Neither a rebel nor 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: a flower child, he was drawn to rock the music 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: of generational grievance. Winner would become the baby boomers go 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: to analyst of that music and the culture that produced it. 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: He just needed his mouthpiece. A year after leaving college, 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: from a small apartment on San Francisco's Petrero Hill, Winner 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: decided to found a magazine. I borrowed money from my 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: mother in law, my stepmother, and scraped together and we 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: just sort of got some free office space in the 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: printer in San Francisco and had no expenses, no salaries, nothing, 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: just kind of hand him out for a while, and 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: you published how What What? We had enough money to 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: pay the printer's bill, and since it was printed on 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: twenty four pages a really cheap newsprint, the bill was 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: relatively low. So you have something that resembles what Now 18 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: What did Rolling Stone then look like? It looks like 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: it looks like a tabloid size, you know, like a 20 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 1: village voice size, with paper paper and with a front 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: page rather than a cover, which was a later kind 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: of thing that we put on. And uh, it was 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: twenty four pages and we sat up in the corners 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: Our price is Cheap, which I took from Mad magazine. Um, 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: and what change? How does it start to build? What 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: do you attribute that too? Well? I think that it 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: started to build because of the editorial excellence. Because in 28 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: n seven the leading edge of the baby boom was 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: just during the Beatles were still in their mop pop face. 30 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: Dylan was doing Highway sixty month, so rock and roll 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: wasn't covered in the newspapers or television. In the movie, 32 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 1: it was nowhere else except on the jukeboxes on the radio. 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: It started to build because we started to do articles 34 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: about music that musicians and serious music fans we're recognizing 35 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: as being really important stuff. Stuff they want to know 36 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: from musicians about how they created their music, what they 37 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: were trying to say, and other kinds of stories about 38 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: cultural issues that people recognize as being really good. I mean, 39 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: within our first year, we had presented a two part 40 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: interview with Pete Townsend, a big long interview that I 41 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: had done with him in which he articulated Tommy for 42 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: the first time we had Mick Jagger on the cover 43 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: and now reminding you with this tiny little thing in 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: San Francisco. And for our first anniversary issue, John and 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: Yoko gave us the naked picture of themselves that was 46 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: banned on their Two Versions album. How do you get 47 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: them to do that? They liked the magazine, They saw 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: what we were doing. They liked it. They didn't. I 49 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: didn't know any of them, you know, I, you know, 50 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: you kind of met no and there was no yet 51 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: and then there was no publicity machinery, no record company. 52 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: All this stuff we now called the starmaking machine didn't 53 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: really exist. Then. You know that the communication went channeling 54 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: directly with artists and we'd send cops issues. Don't see 55 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: it and they go, oh, I like that. You know, 56 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: John Yoko, that magazines about music is taking it seriously. 57 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: You know it's taking us seriously. Yeah. We were reviewing 58 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: Beggars Banquet and the same way we thought of that 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: in their Satanic magazine. We got a letter from Charlie 60 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: Watts early on saying, jeez, we're sorry you didn't like it. 61 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: We'll try and do It's funny. It wasn't to any 62 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: business acumen. It wasn't because I knew how to market 63 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: or knew anything about business. I knew nothing about business 64 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: or complished nobody who helped you take it to the 65 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: next level? How does it kind of grew on its own? 66 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: You know, through trial and error. I made so many mistakes, 67 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: name one, Oh my god, let's see, spending fortunes in it, 68 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: make moving into huge offices without no idea how we're 69 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: going to pay for the overhead, Hiring the wrong people, 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: putting on a campaigns that you know, the wrong time. 71 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: There were small mistakes, then they got to be larger 72 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: and larger over the year. But you're learning the magazine 73 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: your father was not unpublished, not at all. My mom 74 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: was a writer and she taught me how to kind 75 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: of edit and a lot about writing. But I was 76 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: the editor of my high school year book, okay, And 77 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: then I worked for NBC News so as a when 78 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: I was in college. So I had journalistic experience, but 79 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: absolutely no business experience, you know. And it was really 80 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: it was trial there, you know, and we would only 81 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: spend what we cash that we had on hand. You 82 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: have to go. You didn't look for investors and people 83 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: to be in at various times. But after the fact 84 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: and always at the point which we didn't really need it, 85 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: but it seemed like a good idea. You know, I've 86 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: worked in movies and television for years, and you always 87 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: hear people talk about the music business as being the 88 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: worst of all these businesses in terms of the corruption 89 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: and the terms of the you know, the old Paola 90 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: and people trying to launch musical careers that way. Did 91 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: you find that that was a big problem for you 92 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: as the magazine got to be more successful, as people 93 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: wanted to use you to enhance people's careers. I mean, obviously, 94 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: you know, there were some pressure to cover the cover 95 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: onness I got a good review, but very little. I 96 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: mean through the first ten years of rolling stuff. We 97 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: were in San Francisco, before we got to New York. 98 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: We were relatively isolated from the music business, which was 99 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles and the so we were kind of afterthought. 100 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: You know, we weren't. If we had been in l 101 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: A and been in the thick of the music business, 102 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: things would have been much difference. But we weren't. We 103 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: were isolated, and by the time we became a bigger factor, 104 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: and by the time we got to New York, our 105 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: reputation was that we weren't going to be persuaded by 106 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: money or favors or interviews or anything that that we 107 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: were independent and fiercely so and we just say whatever 108 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 1: the fun, whatever we wanted to say, and we weren't 109 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna be held back. So if you were to 110 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: try and approach us and bribe us with something or other, 111 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure they tried, though not really because by this 112 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: time it was very clear you didn't do that to 113 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone. You know, Rolling Stone was gonna if you 114 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: do that, we're gonna write about it. So that never 115 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: was a problem, strangely enough. And I'd say one other 116 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: thing about the music business, I just thought it was 117 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: a great business, as opposed to say the television business, 118 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: where my experience in television was I had never seen 119 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: so many two faced people of my life. In those 120 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: days of networks. They were low is common denom there 121 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: and the people were a little as common there. And 122 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: then people in the records were always having fun, you know, 123 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: hanging out with the Stones and the Beatles and weather. 124 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: And that's what I gravitated towards what's changed in terms 125 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: of because the music business now is it just doesn't 126 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: resemble the music business. When I started with pretty much 127 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: independent labels run by the people who founded those labels 128 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: were founded the music business like I guess the early 129 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: days of the movie business, you know, and they had 130 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: a lot of control. Over the years, it's evolved into 131 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: there are four major record companies. They're owned by huge corporations, 132 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: and they have sound business practices and accounting standards that 133 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: have to meet in the New York Stock exchanged type 134 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: publicly listed company things. So the opportunities are not there. 135 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: And on top of that, they're not they're not the 136 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: dominant factor in selling records anymore. What is well radio 137 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: radio play continues to be. But all this internet stuff, 138 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: streaming services, downloading services, are you know, huge distributors of music. 139 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: How is that for you? In terms of is it 140 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: the eighties? The is it the nineties? When you say 141 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: to yourself, I'm not really keeping up with this anymore, 142 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: it evolves slowly. Absolutely, the phenomenal's true, like what is 143 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: going on today and today in music by today's artists, 144 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: artists have developed of last five or six years, I'm 145 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: not really that up. I'm I'm totally up on you too, 146 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: for example, But that's and they've got a new record 147 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: out and it's great. And I just finished at this 148 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: very table doing an interview with Bono uh last week, 149 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: which is gonna be the next cover. So I'm still involved, 150 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, with the things I love, but I don't 151 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: when you have people to keep up, obviously younger people, 152 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, I'm all, you know, like Lauren, I'm an 153 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: old guy. I mean, there was a time when you 154 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: could predict what was gonna be on SNL, that we're 155 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: gonna be the same thing that we were doing on 156 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: the cover of Rolling Stones. So people would come to town, 157 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: they'd be go to thirty Rock for that stuff. They 158 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: come on to our shop which is a block away 159 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: and do that, and um uh I when I see 160 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: what's Lawrence got on SNL. Now, I don't really know 161 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: who most of them are, except for the occasional what 162 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: do you call a heritage jack like you two, you know, 163 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: but the great things about heritage access there's vital as ever. 164 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: I mean, Springsteen is just brilliant and more relevant than ever. 165 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: Did you see Springsteen show? Ye? You did? What you 166 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: what do you think? I think it's great haunting. I mean, 167 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: Bruce can shake the last seat in the highest rafters 168 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: in a place that's got sixty people in it, and 169 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: so put him in a place he's got eight hundred people, 170 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: and the intensity of his performance and his personality and 171 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: Bruce is just a remarkable I'm having luce with them. 172 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: In fact, sin as we're done. What is it about 173 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: that period? Something happened there with the Beatles, the Stones 174 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: and Dealing all be on the stage at the same time. 175 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: There is reminiscent of Paris in the twenties when you 176 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: had Picasso, Matise, sla All working at one of artists 177 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: that don't ever hasn't happened since may happen again in 178 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: the other field in ten year or something like that. 179 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: But you have that, then you also have the situation. 180 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: The phenomena, which is what you listen to between the 181 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: time you're eighteen and twenty two, is your favorite music 182 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life and will remain at always, 183 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: And that's why you will always turn to that, Because 184 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: after twenty two, as you get into the business of working, 185 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: having a family, you know, your ability to spend so 186 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: much time involved with that music it gets more and 187 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: more limited. You get less familiar with it, and of course, 188 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: then there's the evolution of the music itself into forms 189 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: and formats that are technologically driven or commercially driven, and 190 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: I order youth driven. You know that are different than 191 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: what your imperatives are. Now, I don't myself. I'm not 192 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: a big rap fan. I've listened to it. I understand 193 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: the genus of it and the absolutely importance of it. 194 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: I mean talking about a tribal telegraph that communicate with 195 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: a different, disenfranchised group of people. I mean, if you 196 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: were listening to in w A, it's profound important. When 197 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: did you mark that when Rolling Stone became rome ing Stone, Well, 198 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: early on, I mean we we took us our franchise 199 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: popular culture at large, thinking that we were gonna learn 200 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: more about what society is about from what was happening 201 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: in Probably culture is saying that what was happening in 202 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: the church or in politics. And then of course we 203 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: started covering politics early on, and and our first big 204 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: hit and politics was in seventy two Hunter Thompson at 205 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: to cover the presidential campaign. What did you make of him? 206 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: Because it because the Thompson for me only exists as 207 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: like Johnny Depp and some baroque kind of movie what 208 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: was he really like? Hunter was a one. I mean, 209 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: Hunter was crazy person in many ways, but on the 210 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: end of it's really responsible, you know, thoughtful. He was 211 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: that southern gentleman, a charmer, uh and extraordinarily talented and charismatic. 212 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: And you love being with him, not only because he 213 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: was so charming and so funny, but also if you're 214 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: close and you felt when hanging out with it, your 215 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: this is as close to the danger zone and the 216 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: edges you've ever get, truly, you know, and so there's 217 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: an excitement. I mean we once one night we're driving 218 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: from in Massachusetts from Cambridge up to Maine where we're 219 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: going from staying in dick Win's. Dick Goodin's has came 220 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: to seem Norman Mailer Maine, and we drive up the 221 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: middle of the night, headful of acid, you know, both 222 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: of us in the car, and and always only once 223 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: he turns off the headlights. He liked playing pranks and 224 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: being a jokester and practical jokes on people, and so 225 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: he was enormously fun and enormously talented. He was difficult 226 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: to work with because he was time consuming and a 227 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: little bit unforgiving Uh in his demands on you as 228 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: an editor. But I loved every minute demands in terms 229 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: of his expensive especially it was in the word count 230 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: was great. I just let him run in terms of 231 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: just the demands on your time and your emotional strength 232 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: and your say, needy, I mean at three o'clock in 233 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: the morning, your phone rings, you know, well I this, 234 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: God damn it, and you know I'm running out this 235 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: and what you are? You know, I mean Hunters three 236 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, I'm sleeping. I don't. He doesn't 237 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: even hear you say that. So it was it was 238 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: a full time job to edit Hunter, and during that 239 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: campaign and send me to the whole business of Rolling 240 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: Stone came to a hall because I couldn't pay attention 241 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: to All I could do was add a Hunter for 242 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: a year, you know, and pay attention to him in 243 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: his needs, and then, you know, on the side run 244 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: the company. And it was worth it right right right here. 245 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: We became just dearest friends forever and ever until he 246 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: killed himself. And and uh, which where were you? I 247 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: was in sun Valley, you know, in my house, and 248 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: somebody called me and you know, made me cry and 249 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: all that stuff, and you were no because Hunter by 250 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: that time had was virtually unable to walk, he was incontinent, 251 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: he had had a series of real serious health setbacks 252 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: between all the drug use, and you see it done 253 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: to his body world. And he was really, honestly within 254 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: two months or so, being committed to a hole, I 255 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: mean where he would in falling apart, aren't. Yeah, he 256 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: was falling apart and he wouldn't be and he be, 257 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: And once he was committed, he'd be trapped. I never 258 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: second guess, but you mentioned you're driving down the unlit 259 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: road with him, and everybody's dropping acid. Obviously drugs. Was 260 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: that another thing that you had to keep an eye on, 261 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: which was that you didn't go down the tubes like 262 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: these other people. I mean, I think that it was very, 263 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: very destructive for some people. Hunter destroyed him. I mean 264 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: it gribbled and physically men but also really killed his 265 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: ability to write. But luckily most people finally, somehow other 266 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: found the means to get it uner of control. For myself, 267 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: I just you were built differently, maybe built differently, or 268 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: more sense of responsibility, or I had an adgenuous I 269 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: had to move to rolling Stone was becoming incompatible with 270 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: drug use. But I think it has to do with 271 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: age and getting worn out, and certainly it has to 272 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: do with having kids. I mean, if you have kids 273 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: and you want to you cannot be getting up and 274 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: you can't. Yeah, you'll never see him, right, So we'll 275 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: look at taken away from here or they get taken anyway. 276 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: So it's kind of an abrupt thing. And I think 277 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: the amount of drug casualties we've seen are relatively really few, 278 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: given the size of the scope of the drug use. 279 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: And yet you resist, you know, you don't go well, 280 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: I mean I didn't altogether resist, but overall overall, yeah, 281 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: it could have been worse. It could have been worse. Nice, 282 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, I saw many people go through this and 283 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: come out fine, you know. But I mean, if you 284 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: look back at all the cocaine used, you have to 285 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: say part of it was fun, you know, And that's 286 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: that's a real true story of our times. There was 287 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: a period where everybody we knew was taking cocaine. You 288 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: couldn't go out without running into at least in arts, 289 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, circles that uh, that end and it's forgotten. 290 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: Now explore the here's the thing archives. Lord Michaels runs 291 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: his own kind of empire and it's all on television 292 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: for me, commercial television and those boundaries. I like it. 293 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: I like that you can't use certain language. I like 294 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: that you have to be bright enough to figure out 295 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: how to get your ideas across in that amount of time, 296 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: with intelligence being the thing that you're you hope is showing. 297 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen at Here's the Thing dot Org. I'm 298 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing now. 299 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: More from my conversation with Rolling Stone owner for Now 300 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: Yon Winner, he's decided to put the magazine up for sale. 301 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: This turning point as a chance to reflect on the 302 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: artists he spent his life among. Are you like the 303 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: head of an agency or you like the head of 304 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: a studio where these people are your friends? But it's 305 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: more business and it's kind of the cloak of friendship 306 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: around it. In terms of business, well, there's always the 307 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: initial introduction is always about business, you know, and uh, 308 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: after many years of knowing something really well, all that 309 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: kind of drops away. It's really about just a friendship 310 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: and the relationship and the vacations together, all that stuff. 311 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: So there's a number of i'll not throp the names now, 312 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: very rare thing from pick a couple of people who 313 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: I bet you've been royalty and music who impressed you? 314 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: All the best people impressed me. I mean you're talking 315 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: about people are incredibly talented and creative, and people are 316 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: incredibly in talent and creative, are generally fascinating, charismatic personalities 317 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: and great fun to hang out with, you know. And 318 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: I am uh in awe of talent. I really cherish it. 319 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: It's valuable as something that I celebrate. It's what Rolling 320 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: Stone celebrates. But for me, for instance, I've known Mick 321 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: for forty nine and fifty years and he's his own uh, 322 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: he's suey generous. I mean, he's as extraordinary individual. There's 323 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: no one else like him who has that love of charisma, 324 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: who's not on his talent as an artist and a singer, 325 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: but also as a businessman, a producer of the concerts, 326 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: the producer of everything. I mean. So he's something that 327 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: kind of hold mom on the and awe and still do. 328 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: On the other hand, we have vacation together so many times, 329 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: you know, and we've been into each other's house so 330 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: much and as such a good nice friendship. What the 331 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: hell do you do on vacation? With Mick Jagger, you 332 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: guys like you cook, you have people who cook, You 333 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: have people what do you do well? Like? Uh, you 334 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of boats if you're going to the Caribbean, 335 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of sailing, and there's a lot 336 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: of hanging out, and there's a lot of meals, you know, 337 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: and sometimes they're a little smoking and dope and then 338 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: watching movies. The most fun with Nick in the way 339 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean doesn't haven about that is sitting around the 340 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: campfire singing where he brings his guitar. We go for 341 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: a picnic, you know, five six, seven or eight of 342 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: us and then I want to say the campaire then, 343 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, and I say, well playing expectations. He does 344 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: that and then we sang a Dylan song together, and 345 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's just rare and extraordinary times. An interesting 346 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: thing for me because you know, Jack are really really well. 347 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: Is so the Beatles are red hot and they're really 348 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: producing records for it is not less than two through 349 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,479 Speaker 1: seven and the Stones go on forever. What's the difference. 350 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: Why does one band? Well? You know, I think with 351 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: the Beals you had very evolved personality, and John you 352 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: had an extraordinary level of popularity and intensity that nobody 353 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: has ever had before or since. And I think that 354 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: that that pressure made it really difficult for them to 355 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: stay together and they and when as drugs came along, 356 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: that's when they broke up, you know, And I think 357 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: drugs exacerbated their differences. How do how do the Stones 358 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: survive fifty years? First of the Stones broke up? Really 359 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: nobody knows it, but they you know, throughout the eighties, 360 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't where, they didn't make records. You know, 361 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: they were functionally broken up. And I think that Mick 362 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: as a is was really persistent about wanting to find 363 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: the opportunity when they could get back together again, and 364 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: he was able to affect a reconciliation with Keith. And 365 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: you know, but that whole period again, drugs, that whole period, 366 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: Keith was taking drugs for ten and twelve years and 367 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: impossible to work with, you know, I mean, if somebody 368 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: Stone all the time, you just can't go in the studio, 369 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: you can't write together, you can't do anything together. You 370 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: can't actually you can't even plan a tour together. You 371 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: don't know if the guy's gonna be busted in Canada 372 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: or not, or is it gonna show up on stage. 373 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: So all those difficulties drove them apart, and they just 374 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: had to wait out the drug period. And now I 375 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: think both Keith and mc went solo, tried to see 376 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: what it was like and it wasn't gonna and that 377 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: people wanted to see them together, and so they you know, 378 00:19:54,600 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: despite all and despite Keith's book, they being able to 379 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: work again together and and they do and the able 380 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: happened to love being on the road. You know, Mick 381 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: loves to sing. He he's a musician. I mean, in 382 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: the end of the day, Mick likes to sit around, 383 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: play guitar, talk about music. And Mick apparently uh functions 384 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: as kind of an almost quasi management, yes component where 385 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: you look at the Beatles and you say, when Epstein died, 386 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: they didn't have Everything started to fall apart and it's 387 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: a vacuum. Who's going to tell everybody what time to 388 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: go to the studio? We gotta get a record where 389 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: you gotta do this year we got There was a 390 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: struggle over the leadership might call on to be in charge. 391 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: John led him, but it was a complaint they didn't 392 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: have a wise voice telling what to do, and Nick 393 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: is among all the things is crely sober, smart business 394 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: smart businessman, you know who who sees the bigger picture. 395 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: I did this interview with Mick the only big long 396 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: end he's ever given, which we did find because he's 397 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: not a guy given to that type. But I just 398 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: finally said to this took place out in long and 399 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: him against it. You know, we really should do this 400 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: because I mean, we know each other so well, and 401 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: we kind of owe it to history too to sit 402 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: down and take the opportunity to down who wrote this 403 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: and wrote that. And you know, I mean, nobody's better 404 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: to do that right now than I mean, we trust 405 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: each other. So anyway, so we do the interview. One 406 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: of the questions was he said, what do you think 407 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: about when you're on stage, you know, and you're singing? 408 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: You know, when do you get in the moment when 409 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: you're at the moment. This is most of the time 410 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: I met there, singing along and I think thinking of myself, God, 411 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: did I remember to get the leaves out of the 412 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: gutter back home? It's like everybody, he said, mostly though 413 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the girls now. Uh. Lennon obviously was 414 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: he somebody were close to as well? No, not nearly 415 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: as close. No, No, I mean, first off, he died. 416 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: I met him in the late sixties and we began 417 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: a correspondence in the quaint Steps and he visit his house. 418 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: He came out to San Francisco to a visit with us, 419 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: and then I did that big interview with him. Uh. 420 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: And after that we had a little bit of falling 421 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: out because I print that interview as a book. He 422 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to publish as a book, but I felt 423 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: it was my right to publish this book and it 424 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: was a SuperH historic document. Net book is still in print, 425 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: and in fact, the last edition of it. Yoko wrote 426 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: the introduction to it, and you know, and it's an 427 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: interesting book and interesting interview because he and he talks 428 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: about how it was the first time he had ever 429 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: discussed the Beatles and what it was really like inside, 430 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: what pain and misery was for him at that time. 431 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: But he's like all of when we did an interview, 432 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: I was like twenty four and he's like twenty seven 433 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: or something like that, and it's this were so young 434 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: making such big pronouncements about life. But after that I 435 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: didn't wasn't really friend. We would be in touch and 436 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, communication letters back and forth. But he was 437 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: living in New York. I was living in San Francisco. 438 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: Didn't see much of it at the end. But I 439 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: consider him to have been a friend and ally, I 440 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: mean he was. He did many great things rolling Stone, 441 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: in addition to he gave us that interview and the 442 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: two versions cover and all sorts of things throughout there. 443 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: Bob is another case. Bob. Bob is UH I consider 444 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: a friend and uh a colleague. And we've had a 445 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: wonderful relationship for years, for the whole history of Rolling Stone. 446 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: And it's not like we hate he has come. He 447 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: did come to my house once and we spent the 448 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: day together and ida was fantastic, and I watched him 449 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: playing guitar with my little son and and all that stuff. 450 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: But we've had a really good supportive relationship. I mean, 451 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: I think the mission of Rolling Stone and Greatpa was 452 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: always to present Bob to an audience, to his audience, 453 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: the audience in large, I mean his name rolling Stone, 454 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: after all, and we viewed him and I viewed him 455 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: as really the most important writer of our times and 456 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: uh most talented songwriter, and I mean above and beyond 457 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: everybody else, and so we were kind of an ambassador 458 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: for him to his audience. And I felt part of 459 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: our mission was always to be presenting Bob to audience. 460 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: And and I think Bob saw that and understood that. 461 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: Despite all the reputation Bob being reclusive and silent all 462 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: the time, He's done fourteen major interviews over the years 463 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: of Rolling I've done two of them myself, and we 464 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: have cherished him and support him, criticized him as necessary 465 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: where our writers didn't like self portrait or didn't like 466 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: this thing and that thing, but been supportive. I mean, 467 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: without Bob Dylan, nothing, you know. I mean there's no 468 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone, There's no rock and roll, you know, without him. Now, 469 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: what's the provenance of the name Yon for a Jewish 470 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: kid from northern California? Where does where does Yon come from? 471 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: My parents like fans of Yon Sibelius, that composer, so 472 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: we doname of Sibelius. My mother played piano, she played 473 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: classical music. We grew up listening ever play Mozart and 474 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: Chopin and all that kind of stuff. There's a lot 475 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: of classic news. They also had these that's of seventy 476 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: eight records and like books like sleeves and and I 477 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: remember off hand, South Pacific, Odetta, you know, a couple 478 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: of other musicals, Billy Holiday, no jazz. It was, you know, 479 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: kind of show tunes, classic music and folk music. And 480 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: that's what I grew up and up. I grew up 481 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: with that. And then when the rock and roll thing 482 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: came around, when I was about eight or nine, was 483 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: about you know, I was eight and Graham hold of 484 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 1: what first record I ever bought was Rock around the 485 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: Clock by Bill Haley, and along with my first forty 486 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: five record player. And I was eight years old the 487 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: time or seven, and this kind of group got into 488 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: that rock and roll thing in the radio and all 489 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: this stuff, and at the time with Pat Boone and 490 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: Elvis Presley and Everley's and we hear all that, and 491 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: that's still music today. That can still know every word 492 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: to every song. And the first one for me was 493 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: Twist and Shout. Now, certainly these last many years, there's 494 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: been changes in the cultures, has been changes in your 495 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: life as well. And Elton John kind of authorized you 496 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: too out him in the magazine and yet you were 497 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: living your life completely different way back then. Correct. Was 498 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: it difficult for you? No, it wasn't really your life 499 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: the way you formerly did. Was it was it stressful? No, 500 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: you know, I never I was never that conflicted about 501 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: it because, uh, it wasn't that big an issue. I 502 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: kind of had a happy marriages, that's who you were. 503 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: That jobs fine and you know all that. And I 504 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: wasn't really think of doing anything anything radical or coming 505 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: out or throwing my life obout. I met somebody, I 506 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, it felt natural and it felt easy because 507 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: I was kind of in a circumstances where these things 508 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: are relatively easy and I didn't think at all through 509 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm impulsive, and the environment was supportive, and it was 510 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: a little crazy at first, you know, with all the 511 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: publicity was trying to swirl around about it and all 512 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, but you know, a similar you know, 513 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: everybody kind of reconciled to the idea and accepted it. 514 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: And I never I never lost a friend because of it. 515 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: I've never changed friends. And your adult kids and my 516 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: kids were in high school and we're in grammar school 517 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: at that time, and all those kids there. Remember my 518 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: one of my kids going out and said, Daddy, dad school, 519 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: They told me you were They said you were being 520 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: gay with someone. But you know, it's the right thing 521 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: to do. And and Elton, I remember I saw that 522 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: he had said that, and I did come and say, 523 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: you sure you want to say this? You know what 524 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: you're saying. Just the double check, you know, because it's 525 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: personal private and I think in a great sense one 526 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: part of our job is to be a protective of artists, 527 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: you know, and and and nurture there are you know. 528 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: Um so I just wanted to give him that courtesy. Uh, 529 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: but a lot it's worked out. But so you're married, 530 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm married. So you met, he married three kids together? 531 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: What went into that decision? I don't think you both 532 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: wanted Yeah, yeah, you wanted another round of that. Yeah, 533 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: I love children. I wanted to have a big family, 534 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: and you know, I had three children with Jane and 535 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: then um Matt helped raise them when they were at 536 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: least split the map the time, and he was deeply involved. 537 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: And while gone and he's from a family of ten kids. 538 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: Where is he from Detroit? What kind of work does 539 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: he do raise the family now? But before that he 540 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: was working for Calvin And you know, kids are if 541 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: you if you love him, they're great. You know. Wait, 542 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: these are special guest stars. Who's this. Oh are these both? 543 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: Are both yours? Are these both yours? Oh? My god? You? 544 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: Who did I write there? Who's which one's? Jude? I 545 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: wrote your autograph here and I wrote I'm Alec by 546 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: the way, nice to me too, how were you? And 547 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: I wrote to you? I wrote, why would you want 548 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: my autograph when your dad is yonon Winner because he's 549 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: met you. I haven't stop there. What's very nice to 550 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: We're talking all about you kids. I watch every one 551 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: of your Trump skits. My god, isn't it crazy? It's 552 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: so crazy. It's so I'm not doing right, But I 553 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: must say I'm getting very tired of it. You know, 554 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: the Trump, the Trump stuff has been brilliant, like it 555 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: was more slapsticky Trump and a shower. Didn't silly, didn't 556 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: get the thing that made has made Trump so great 557 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: indition your skillet is that has gotten such at the 558 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: truth of who he is and what he does. It's 559 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: this almost real. You can't you're not endangered a threatened 560 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: by probably losing them. Hey, guys, it's nice to meet 561 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: you both. It's very nice to meet. I call what 562 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: you're described what I call is. I mean, I'd say 563 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: it's the miracle of human life that you see every 564 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: day and to watch them grow is a miracle. And 565 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: you're as a parent, you're exposed that on a constant basin. 566 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: That that's what's so glowing and special about it. And also, 567 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: let's say so at your age, At my age, I 568 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 1: tell people all the time, how many more premiers can 569 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: I go to? How many more reward shows do I 570 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: need to go? I've done enough of that in the 571 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: last thirty years. But anyway, Um Graydon has walked away. Uh, 572 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: Tina Brown is not publishing anymore. She's looking more into 573 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: multi media. And now you're gonna the remaining piece you 574 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: owned you want to sell, We're gonna sell it. But 575 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: I don't anticipate walking away from it. You know. I'm 576 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: still have contributions to make and still understand certain things, 577 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: so you know, I mean, that's slow. I doesn't look 578 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: away from it. What's a rolling stone cover that John 579 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: Winner might have on the wall above his probably is 580 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: that famous pictures and he took of John Yoko the 581 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: weekend that he was killed, then curled up together. It 582 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: was that same weekend. That was that weekend, Yeah, just 583 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: like twenty four hours before she shot that Hey, yeah, yeah, 584 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: So if I show up at the campfire with you 585 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: and Mick, you said you, and Nick was saying he'd 586 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: back up the guitar, and seeing no expectations at immediately 587 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: called and tell Nick, please tell him save us space 588 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: on the log for me by the fire. Okay? Deal? 589 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: That was Rolling Stone founder Yon Wenner with cameos from 590 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: Noah and Jude. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 591 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: here's the thing.