1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: It's the summer festival season, and while Europe is seeing 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: declining sales and smaller tours, could Africa's music industry be 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 2: ready to take its place well? 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Especially at Jay one of the Bushfire Hunting on the Crown. 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: The stage is beautiful. Spertini's Bushfire Festival and Tanzania's Sauti 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: Zabasara are growing, bringing jobs, tourism and support for Africa's 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: music industry Italian difference. On today's episode of The Next 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,639 Speaker 2: Africa Podcast, we'll look at Africa's growing festival circuits, how 10 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: African countries are doing things differently, and what this tells 11 00:00:53,840 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: us about the region's young population and growing middle class. 12 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: I'm Tia Adibayo in for Jennifer's Abasaga and this is 13 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each week 14 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: from the continent driving the future of global growth with 15 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: the context only Bloomberg can provide. Joining me this week 16 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: is Maputo based correspondent Tavari Sabola, who spent the summer 17 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: on the festival circuit in the pursuit of news. Tavaris, 18 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: thanks for joining me, so it's been quite the summer 19 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: of festivals so far, Can you put the African scene 20 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: into context for us? What are the big festivals, the 21 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 2: major ones that you have to be. 22 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: At across the continent. You have seen in recent years 23 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: this emergence of music festivals, and compared to what is 24 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: happening in Europe or in Northern America, what do you 25 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: see artists Not only they are growing in terms of audiences, 26 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: having more people come into these festivals, but they are 27 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: putting together concepts that are slightly different in some ways 28 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: to what is happening in other parts of the worlds combining, 29 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: for instance, tourists, combining in nature or other activities that 30 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: people can do in a festival settings. So you have 31 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: in Southern Africa you have Bushfire, considered one of the 32 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: biggest festivals in the continent. You have Saudisabusara in Tanzania, 33 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: in Sanzobar, which has been growing recently. You have many 34 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: festivals in South Africa. You have festivals in Kenya and 35 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: in Nigeria. So I would say in the past ten 36 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: to fifteen years, there's this trend of festivals growing. 37 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so tell us a bit more about your 38 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: experiences at these festivals. I'm really interested in the set list, 39 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: you know, the artists that are performing. Did you find 40 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: that it's mostly global stars or are there a good 41 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: mix of African artists in there too, what's the atmosphere like? 42 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: Well, in there for festival that I attended, you you 43 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: have obviously mostly African artists attending. They always have one 44 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: or two global artists of blue global musicians, but most 45 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: of the lineup like local artists from the specific countries, 46 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: but also coming from the continent and most importantly with 47 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: the genres that are right now dominating the region and 48 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: dominating the global stage. 49 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something I wanted to get into because it 50 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: feels like you can't go anywhere without hearing afrobeats these 51 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: days or Amma piano or another style of African music 52 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: is incredibly popular in the context of the global music scene. 53 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,119 Speaker 2: What is that popularity doing for African economies? 54 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: Well, yes, as you said, so, we have seen since 55 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: the two thousands intents this phenomena where African music people 56 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: call it the umbrella of afrobets, but that just the 57 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: umbrella like very different genres in from Southern Africa to 58 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: East Africa to West Africa. Right now, you have obviously 59 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: stars like Daddy do or Tayler from South Africa or 60 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: terms people are conquered, that they have conquered global stages 61 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: that are performing in the biggest festivals in the world. 62 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: You have this at this layer, this tier artists that 63 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: already made it, making millions with the great record deals 64 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: and doing advertising for companies. And you have, i would say, 65 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: on the secondary tier of festivals and small venues making 66 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: money off this popularity of genres coming from the continent. 67 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,119 Speaker 2: Let's take it back to Espaccini. Now, the bush Fire 68 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: Festival that you've been mentioning. I know you're lucky enough 69 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: to attend, but it seems to be more than just 70 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: a festival. They've actually had backing from the UN. And 71 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: that comes at a time when we we've actually seen 72 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: a report from the UN about the importance of cultural 73 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,119 Speaker 2: festivals in Africa. Why is this such an area of growth, 74 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: Why is it such a useful instrument for organizations like 75 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: the UN to use to pursue their aims. 76 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: Bushfire, for instance, they combine different aspects not only the music, 77 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: but you have social aspects that are important for especially 78 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: for the youth, and obviously the tourist aspects of it. 79 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: Since Bushfire two decades ago started. They've been consistently growing 80 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: with more stages, employing more people, creating more jobs and 81 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: having an array of other industries coming together, for instance, 82 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: the food industry. In this year's festivals, you had chefs 83 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: and people working in the food instrites coming from South Africa, 84 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: coming from Botswana, from les to sell their foods and 85 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: have small kitchens at the festival. So the reason why 86 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: precisely a lot because the festival is not only about music. 87 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: Stay with us, Tavaris. When we come back, we'll talk 88 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: more about the impact of these festivals and what they 89 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: tell us about Africa's growing young middle class. Will be 90 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: right back. Welcome back today on the podcast, we're talking 91 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: about Africa's growing music festival circuit. Tavarish Sabola is still 92 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: with me. Let's talk about some of the economics of 93 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: these festivals. Do they bring a boost to the areas 94 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 2: that are hosting. 95 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: Them, Yeah, definitely. You see a lot of people. I 96 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: am based in Maputu and a lot of people travel 97 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: from Maputu to Zanzibar because of tourism, but also they 98 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: end up going to the festival. So a new African 99 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: population is mostly young you have this emerging middle class 100 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: people that are able to pay for a flight, pay 101 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: for holidays, and they're crossing borders. They're traveling, and I 102 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: think for push Fire Festival, perhaps half of the festival 103 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: goers that are coming from South Africa, and you have 104 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: like twenty percent of the first of all goals are 105 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: coming from from Mozambique. And these that young people that 106 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: now have money and have access to resources to be 107 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: able to travel, that are buying cars that can drive 108 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: across the border. 109 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: So I mean, those are the positives, huge opportunities for 110 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: growth and productivity gains. But tell me, are there any 111 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: negative sides to this? You know, typically when we see 112 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 2: high volume of travel between areas, there is the chance 113 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: of rising inflation. Has that been something that's affected the 114 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: populations that live in these places full time? 115 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: In z's Abart for instance, there I spoke to some 116 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: people that are complaining about rising costs because a lot 117 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: of tourists are coming to these places and rent scores up, 118 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: and so there are definitely these problems that come from 119 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: migration and tourists coming to these places, and in the 120 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: music itself, despite the growth in the popularity of this 121 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: genres and the fact that they're having to festival to 122 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: more people performing, more people coming from within the countries 123 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: that this festival is happening, but also in the region, 124 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: you have this problem of how can they actually monetize 125 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: their popularity of these genres because obviously you have the 126 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: Davidos and the Terms and these global stars they made it, 127 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: but you have people that don't necessarily have the same 128 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: access to Spotify. They don't generate a lot of money 129 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: through streaming platforms. And Music in Africa, which is this 130 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: platform that works in Southern Africa and music and they 131 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,239 Speaker 1: put out a report two years ago about the economics 132 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: of artists in music, and they observed that thirty percent 133 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: of all the revenues for artists coming from live musical 134 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: live performances, basically highlighting the fact that the festivals and 135 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: venues are an important source of income. But they say 136 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: only ninety percent of their past revenues are coming from 137 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: streaming services. So you need in the way the algorithms 138 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: for streaming platforms like Spotify or others Title or Apple Music, 139 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: the way they're designed make it difficult for musicians coming 140 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: from the continent where the Internet penetration is not as 141 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: high as it would be in places like London or 142 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: New York, so it's difficult for them to monetize, and 143 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: that most of the managers and people that I spoke 144 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: with in the firstival circuit, they say musicians have to 145 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: professionalize their services and start putting their music on this 146 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: live streaming streaming services, but also investment deal infrastructures to 147 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: allow them to be able to monetize online. 148 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean at the moment, would you say 149 00:09:54,360 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: that Africa as a continent isn't really profiting to the 150 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: maximum capacity from the popularity of its music and its artists. 151 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: Well, you have a small group of artists, as we 152 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: mentioned the superstars making money of it, but the vast 153 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: majority are not necessarily making a living off their music, 154 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: even if the music itself is immensely popular. 155 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: We've been talking about how in Europe and North America 156 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: the music industry isn't in the strongest situation. Is this 157 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 2: an opportunity for African festivals and African music to fill 158 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 2: that gap or do they risk following the same path. 159 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: You have potential for growth and to align festivals in 160 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: the continent with tourism, growing tourism industry. I think it's 161 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: there's a potential there, especially the idea of novelty and 162 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: all of this, all of these countries for in combining 163 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: music with nature activities and designing festivals in a way 164 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: that will be different from how things that's done in 165 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: places like Europe or Northern America. So I think there's 166 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: a definitely there's a potential, but we again we face 167 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: the underlying problems where which are like infrastructure to the 168 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: air transport across the continent is very expensive, and the 169 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: economy is themselves. The governments have to do better in 170 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: making sure that the infrastructure is there to be able 171 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: for the festivals to grow. Because definitely there's a there's 172 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: a potential, not only because of the novelty, but also 173 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: because these festivals again are combining in different things. 174 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: Ours. Just lastly, summer twenty twenty five is coming to 175 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 2: a close, but could you give us some advice for 176 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: next summer. What is the number one African music festival 177 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: that we need to attend next year? 178 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: In November this year, there's this festival is called the 179 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: Nyaga Yaga. It happens in in Uganda. It's started as 180 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: a small festival. It's extremely popular these days, they're gonna 181 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: The next one is happening in November this year, but 182 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: definitely the two that we have been talking about that 183 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: I will definitely recommend the Bushfire Festival in Sauti Savasari 184 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: in Zanzibarazania, Tavares. 185 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us and you can 186 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: read all our coverage across Bloomberg platforms. Now here's some 187 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: of the other stories we've been following across the region 188 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: this week. Nigerian companies are increasingly opting to issue short 189 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 2: term debt rather than longer term notes to avoid locking 190 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: in high borrowing costs. Nigeria's Central Bank has lifted its 191 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: key interest rate by sixteen percentage points to twenty seven 192 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: point five percent in the past three years to contain 193 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: double digit inflation that's been stoked by depreciating nira and 194 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: Rwanda says it plans to work with a carbon project 195 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: development company to work towards selling the offsets to Singapore. 196 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: Singo produces about forty nine million tons of carbon dioxide 197 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: or its equivalent every year, making it the world's fifty 198 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: seventh biggest emitter. By buying credits from Wanda, the Asian 199 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 2: country could meet its goal to mitigate the impact of 200 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: its omissions. You can follow all these stories across Bloomberg, 201 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: including the next African Newsletter. We'll put a link in 202 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. 203 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you 204 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: usually get your podcasts. I'm tia Adebayo. Jennifer will be 205 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: back next week. Thank you for listening.