WEBVTT - BI Weekend: Measles Outbreak, US Clean Tech 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:11.440 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Intelligence 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:13.680 with Alex Steel and Paul Sweeney. 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.000 The real ap performance has been in US corporate high yield. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.520 Are the companies lean enough? Have they trimmed all the fats? 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.200 The semiconductor business is a really cyclical business. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.560 Breaking market headlines and corporate news from across the globe. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.040 Do investors like the M and A that we've seen? 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.199 These are two big time blue chip companies. 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.279 Window between the peak and cunt changing super fast. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:41.160 Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steele and Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.879 On Today's Bloomberg Intelligence Show, we dig inside the big 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.680 business series impacting Wall Street and the global markets. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:49.640 Each and every week we provide in depth research and 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.400 data on some of the two thousand companies and in one 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.160 hundred and thirty industries our end. Let's cover worldwide. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.800 Today we'll discuss Tesla's CEO Elon Musk relationship with President 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:58.440 Donald Trump. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.240 Plus we'll look at the consequence the President Trump's America 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.000 First Investment policy on the US energy landscape. 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.720 But first we begin in the health and pharmaceutical space. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:08.800 Less than three four months into twenty twenty five, the 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.760 US measle cases of outpaced last year's total, and this 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.680 comes as the worrying outbreak link to multiple desks continues 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:15.160 to spread. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.320 In other news, the drugmakers Roche and Zealand It teamed 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.800 up in a five point three billion dollar pack in 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.280 a bid to challenge Nova Nordisk and Eli Lilly in 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.160 the booming market for obcit drugs. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.560 From where we are joined by Sam Fazelli, Boomberg Intelligence, 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.480 Director of Research for Global Industries and Senior Pharmaceuticals. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.760 First asked Sam about his immune status and how concerned 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.080 we should be about getting a meso vaccine booster. 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.600 It's not like it's rampant and everywhere, but the reality 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.440 is it worried me enough mm hmm, being all those 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.480 labels you want to give me right that, I thought, 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.560 let me go and see what my immune status is. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.720 I'm doing that, right. I have my blood tests in 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.520 a couple of weeks, because like, why not, right? 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.480 Yeah? I just you know, so exactly what have you 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:55.000 got to lose? 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.920 At least I know I know that if I am 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.040 susceptible and I've got a little son, I think about 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.000 being close to him or notther etcetera, etcetera. 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.640 So I did that, So I think do we need 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.400 all to take it? Don't? I don't think so at 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:09.760 the minute. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.519 I don't think this is something everybody needs to rush 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.720 out and get majority of people. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.680 If you were vaccinated, especially post nineteen. 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:22.080 Sixty eight, which is all of you guys, right, you 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.520 would be immune to you know, that's a very one 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.799 of those vaccines that worked for a long long time. 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.520 So and I think my result actually says I am immune, 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:30.680 so I. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.120 Shouldn't worry about it. And that's where we need to be. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:39.160 The problem is we need ninety five percent immunity around 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.760 us to benefit from the herd immunity effect. You remember 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.720 that or in the pandemic we talked about that. Yeah, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.120 And that's the problem that in some states in the 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.920 US is falling below that. In fact, I counted only 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.280 twelve or thirteen states you can count that on the 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.800 CDC website that are above the ninety five percent vaccination level. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.120 So those are low have a risk of outbreaks, and 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.079 that's why we've been seeing that rate rising and infection 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.919 rates have been rising since twenty seventeen eighteen. There's always 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.440 some but we're dealing unfortunately with a pretty meaningful sized 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:13.679 eye break in Texas. 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.920 So deals last week Roche and the Zealand getting in 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.679 on a deal. What's happening with our good friends of es. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.160 Yeah, yeah, So look, I mean we've only got two 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.440 things to talk about here, infectious diseases or rubesity. 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.560 Right, and this deal, this deal was the licensing deal, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:30.040 not MNA. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.760 So basically Roche went to this company and said, look, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.080 we're interested in your asset and we want to do 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.480 a partnership. So Roach has taken on fifty to fifty 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:39.800 up to fifty to fifty. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:40.240 I e. 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.240 Zealand can invest in their commercialization up to a point 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.360 of getting fifty percent of the profits, assuming they're putting 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:48.600 fifty percent of the costs. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.160 Right, So, and what is it? Is it another week 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.080 go VI? Is it another zep bound? No, it's not. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.480 It's a different mechanism, and it's supposed to work by 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.760 giving you weight loss but helping preserve of some of 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.480 the muscle mass, which I'm sure you've talked about this. 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.120 So we've talked about this several times. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.240 You don't want to lose muscle and fat, You want 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.640 to lose fat less muscle and that's what these amylin drugs. 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:14.280 Potentially give you. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.839 And of course Rashi's no newcomer to this space, right 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.040 But interestingly, what it does pose is in the future 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.640 that we're going to be looking at you and I 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:27.960 and Alex together, I'm sure we'll be looking talking about 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:28.320 this forever. 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.080 Is how do you decide what to give to what patients? 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.680 That's what the world needs to figure out. Now. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:35.880 Yeah, I don't know what the answer is to that. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.279 I'm sure the companies all have their own answer. 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.400 I'm coming back to you, Alex to figure it out. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.200 Okay, I believe you. When we take a look at 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.520 the in the US and the level of NIH funding 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:51.520 that is on the chopping block, what part of the 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.120 industry do you think is most vulnerable to losing funding 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.480 and then missing out on some research? 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:58.120 Yep. 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.839 But so Alex, if you think about and I, it's 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.159 it's mostly majority of it, of course is biological right 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.359 National Institute's Health. So that's where I think the cuts 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.880 are coming. But it's not just about cutting people. It's 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.080 still uncertain that it creates. It's been the cutting of 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:21.640 overhead costs to universities. It is the fact that apparently 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.800 there'll be no not based on what I've been looking at, 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:28.640 but based on what I've heard, there been no patent 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:33.120 filings by the Institute in the past few weeks, which 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.279 could be stop filing patterns because it's expensive, or could 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.039 be we don't want to give all our ideas away 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.600 or whatever. But they are the font or found or 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:47.120 whatever the right phrase is, sorry of future drug development, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.160 and they get lots of revenue back from it. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.520 So it is. It is worrying, and I don't like 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:53.640 seeing what I'm seeing. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.400 Up to twenty percent of the stuff being cut, and 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.840 we need a turn in this. We need to stop 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.839 seeing this and so that we don't feel like science 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:02.599 is under attack. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.880 Our thanks to Sam Fizzelli, Bloomberg Intelligence, Director of Research 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.359 for Global Industries and senior pharmaceuticals analysts. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.920 This week we focus on a few Bloomberg Big Take stories, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.839 and one was titled Cancer Patients one hundred thousand dollars 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.480 bill shows chaos rockinghealthcare. You can find it on Bloomberg 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:18.560 dot Com and the Terminal. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.360 The story focuses on the insurance industry, their rise in denials, 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.000 and one woman's fight to get coverage for her cancer treatment. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:25.520 For more. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.240 We spoke to John Tazzi, Bloomberg Healthcare reporter, and we 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:29.960 first asked John to walk us through a story in 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.800 the broader healthcare insurance industry. 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.440 This is a story of a woman who is being 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:40.480 treated for advanced breast cancer in Wisconsin and he sought 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:45.719 prior authorization from her insurance company at United Healthcare for 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:51.839 the treatment. She got a kind of confusing set of responses. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.480 She got two letters on the same day, one denying 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:59.719 the authorization, another approving it. She got the treatment months later, 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.560 the company to kind to pay for it. She ended 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.840 up filing a lawsuit to get the treatment paid for. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.920 The company ultimately did pay for it after the lawsuit 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.400 was filed after we inquired about it. But you know, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:18.400 what this story really exemplifies is kind of what an 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:25.440 administrative mess the US healthcare system has become. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:27.760 So, I mean, you've got a stat in here which 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.480 is just blows me away. The US healthcare system spends 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.120 as much on billing and claims processing as it does 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.440 on treating cancer. That is just extraordinary because what you 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.720 have here, as reading your story, you got two big 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.160 entities locking horns all the time that the provider of 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.520 this of the medical procedure, and then the insurance company 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.400 that has to pay for neither of them. Are you 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:53.680 know wallflowers? They go at it, don't they. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.280 Yeah, So what we have is this adversarial system, right. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.880 You have on one side, you know, hospitals, medical provis labs. 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.120 You know, we're in a free market economy where there's 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.360 no restrictions on the prices they can charge. On the 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.120 other side, we have the private insurers who are you know, 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.560 trying to constrain costs for their clients and you know, 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.880 make sure that the care given to their members is 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.520 appropriate care. And you know, it's just this conflict and 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.560 it's escalating. You know, we see data on insurance denials rising. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:36.240 We see a bunch of basically companies that have gotten 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.840 into this system to help one side or the other, 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.360 or in some cases both maximize their financial advantage in 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:47.959 these transactions. So you have the sort of escalating conflict 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.520 that patients are often caught in the middle of. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.120 So what's our way out of here? 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:54.000 Good question? 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:55.959 I mean, I think you know, some people would argue 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:01.000 that there is you know, opportunities for technology and AI 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.000 and you know, more efficient. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.079 Processes, standardized. Yeah, technically standardized practices or. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:08.880 You know, I mean, I think that would potentially go 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:09.959 a long way. I mean, there's been a lot of 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.240 research over a long time, over you know, over kind 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.520 of how to do this. I think what you fundamentally 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.559 get though, is like the system where incentives are are 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.120 you know, are misaligned. Like you have one side that 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.600 has an incentive to do more and to Bill Moore, 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.960 and you have another inside that has incentives to kind 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.040 of put up more restrictions or guardrails they might call 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:35.960 it around around care. And you know, that's sort of increasing, 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.800 and I'm not sure that there's there's sort of a 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.520 clear pathway out of it right now. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.160 Well, one of my questions is what does this mean 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.679 for healthcare providers? It kind of I mean, and you've 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.800 got a great charting here us doctors no longer work 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.439 for themselves, And it's the percent of physicians employed by 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.800 hospitals or corporate entities. And that number was about sixty 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.680 percent back in twenty nineteen. It's over seventy five percent today. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.679 Doctors just saying I don't I just can't deal with 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:03.360 this stuff anymore. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.640 Yeah, And I think if you talk to physicians, you hear. 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.560 You know, there's a lot of compliance and sort of 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.200 like you know, investment they need to do in like 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.040 over the recent years around like electronic medical records and 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.280 you know, basically being a practicing physician has gotten a 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.000 lot more complicated and I think in some ways a 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.720 lot more expensive. In the days of just kind of 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.760 hanging your shingle when you get out of med school 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.360 and being a solo practitioner, those are over. The other 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.960 thing is that they're you know, looking for bargaining power 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.559 when they're contracting with the insurance companies. So they're joining 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.640 hospital systems, they're joining big groups, they're joining private equity 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.400 owned you know, practices. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.080 I guess the logical question also then becomes if they're 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.120 tweaks to like entitlement programs too, Like how does that 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.200 wind up affecting this whole dynamic because of their changes 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.880 to medicate and medicare. I would assume that some providers 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.319 will lend lose money and then it makes it harder. 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.040 Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we we will 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.720 still have to see what comes out of Washington on 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.920 that front. But you know, in general, I think providers 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.000 will tell you that they have to charge higher prices 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.680 in the private market because they are not compensated enough 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.040 by government programs. I know there's a lot of dispute 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.160 about that assertion as well from economists and and others, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.800 but you know it, you know, for patients, particularly in 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.240 the commercial market where they you know, if you're on 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.160 Medicare Medicaid, the government sets the price more or less. 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.120 But if you're on a private plan, you know, those 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.200 prices are set in the private market. And that's why 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.280 when you know, if you do have a situation where 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.440 something isn't properly covered, you can be exposed to a 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.680 really expensive bill. 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.960 Did your did Julie Simon's the woman in your story 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.000 that you ever getting into resolution with this lawsuit here? 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.280 So the claim was paid you know again after if 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.280 you filed the laws, after we asked the company about it, 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:05.920 claims were you know, so that was resolved that the 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.600 lawsuit is you know, is still pendaning. 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.440 Okay, all right, Thanks to John Tozzi, Bloomberg Healthcare Reporter. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.960 Coming up, we're gonna look at Wall Street's infamous dark pools. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.040 You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.240 depth research and data on two thousand companies and one 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.400 hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:24.760 b I go on the terminal. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.480 I'm Paul Sweeney and I'm Alex Steel, and this is Bloomberg. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.120 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.440 Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.040 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.560 We turned to Tesla's CEO, Elon Musk and his relationship 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:52.600 with the Trump administration. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.080 Tesla stock has been suffering since it's games on election Day, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.720 and it shows that muscle relationship with President Donald Trump 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.000 is hurting his portfolio. 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.880 From whre, we spoke to Liam Denning Lumberg opinion columnists 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.640 for his piece titled how long will Musk be Welcomed 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:06.439 at the White House? 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.840 We first asked Liam if he is surprised that Elon 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.880 Musk has lasted this long at the White House? 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:11.720 You know, not really. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.080 I mean, I know that there's this speculation that, you know, 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.240 you've got these two big egos and they're bound to 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.400 kind of explode in some kind of soup and over 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.520 at some point, I think we do have to consider 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:26.120 that they both still get quite a lot from this relationship. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.360 I mean, you know, Elon Musk has the era of 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.920 the most powerful person in the world. He has through 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:40.720 the doge whatever that is, he has influence over all 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.880 sorts of agencies that regulate or do business with his companies. 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:49.520 And in return, you know, President Trump gets to bask 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.319 in the aura of this prominent businessman. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.520 He gets campaign dollars. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.600 You know, and he gets obviously you know, should we say, 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.240 algorithmic alignment on a big social media platform. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.079 So there is still quite a ridic alignment. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.240 But we have seen, you know, I think the reason 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.320 I wrote the piece is we've seen a confluence of 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.839 things that point to the risks of a business person 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:20.200 like Elon Musk tying himself this closely to you know, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:21.680 a pretty controversial president. 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:23.560 Yeah, Liam put me in the camp. I was one 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.040 of those folks that said, you know, Elin will probably last, 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.360 his tenure will be measured in weeks, not months or years. 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.160 And that looks like, at least at this early stage, 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.120 I may be proven wrong, but you know, money talks here. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.000 According to Rich go On, the Bloomberg criminal must. His 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.680 next net wealth is down one hundred and eighteen point 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.320 six billion dollars this year. Do you think he cares? 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.480 I think, you know, maybe on a kind of an 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:51.720 ego level that matters. 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.680 I mean, he's still worth you know. 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:55.480 The last time I looked up three hundred and thirteen, 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.360 so you know, he's not He's. 0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.680 Obviously not going to be struggling. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.440 But I think for me, you know, the big mover 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.080 there is Tesla obviously, because that's the the biggest asset, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.640 it's the only really liquid one he has. You know, 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.360 his own personal indebtedness is tied to that stock, and 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.960 he used it, you know, to help buy. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:19.920 Twitter. 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.680 And I think it is it is an issue because 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.400 I think what's been interesting for me with what's happened 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.680 with Tesla since the election. You know, obviously there was 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.040 that huge Trump bump in the stock, you know, worth 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.840 north of seven hundred billion dollars, which has collapsed, and 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.320 in some ways I've sort of viewed that not just 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.160 as a SOT price, but as an opinion poll. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:43.320 You know, we saw this. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:49.400 Really enthusiastic response, you know, based around honestly pretty nebulous 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:54.680 ideas that Musk's closeness to Trump would somehow translate into say, like, 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:59.600 you know, favorable autonomous driving legislation or something. But when 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.760 you want, there wasn't really a whole lot there, mainly 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.560 because you know, the big problem there is it's not 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.040 government regulations. The fact that Tesla still doesn't have a 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.320 commercial rogo taxi like that is the main problem. And 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:17.040 in the meantime, we've seen the corrosive effects of that relationship. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.880 You know, clearly the Tesla brand is suffering in major markets. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.920 We've seen bad numbers out of Europe, We've seen bad 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.960 numbers out of China or that may have less to. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.479 Do with politics and more just with straight up petition. 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:35.400 And we've seen weakness in California, the big US EV 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.920 market building through twenty twenty four, and I honestly don't 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.960 expect that the past couple of months have helped with 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.520 sales there either. And I think as that price comes down, 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:53.080 it does tarnish Musk's image, it does affect him financially, 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:58.440 and it also points to I think lasting damage if 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.360 this relationship with Trump were to unravel in the same 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.959 way we've seen with the businessmen previously. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.480 So I live in parks of Brooklyn. I think Liam 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.080 does too. But have you seen the teslas that are 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.560 you do know? I thought you live in Brooklyn. 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.000 Right now, I mean suburbs. 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.040 Oh he changed. Okay, he was in Brooklyn at one point. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.679 But my point of this whole conversation is in yuppie 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.479 Brooklyn there are teslas parked on the street and I 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.119 noticed for the first time there were signs like leaflets 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.720 being put on the windshield being like cell your tesla 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.080 with like a picture of Elon Musk, because like that's 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.200 where the protest is, like only only in Parkslow when 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.399 that actually happen. Does Musk also provide a foil for 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.240 Donald Trump in terms of like Musk gets the heat 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:40.040 Trump doesn't. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.000 Yeah, And you know, I think my read of the 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.119 way Musk was brought into government in this kind of, 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:52.760 you know, kind of slightly arms length, quasi independent role 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.159 was that that gave him a lot of freedom of 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.560 movement to act. It also meant he obviously avoided some 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.359 of the more onerous kind of Senate hearings and that 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.639 kind of thing. But I think it also gives Trump 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.960 some useful distance if at some point we were to see, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.399 you know, some real blowback against I don't know, you know, 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.240 cuts to entitlements or if we see you know, if 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.040 we see a recession happen. 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.520 We've seen Trump, you know. 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:28.040 Very quickly, you know, lose patience with some of these 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:29.960 people he's brought in before. You know, I'm thinking of 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:34.399 people like the former excell and CEO Rex Tillison in 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.560 the first term. Gary Khan from Goldman Sachs. Musk's in 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.760 a different league, but he's also very close. He's not 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.359 you know, this is a whole new level of embrace 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.200 between a prominent business person and the White House. 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.520 All right, Thanks to Lilliam Denning, Bloomberg opinion columnist. 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.240 One Bloomberg Big Takes story we focused on this week 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.439 was titled Wall Street's private rooms are making dark pools 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.919 even darker. You can find it on the Bloomberg Dot 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:01.240 and the Terminal. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.520 The story focuses on how Wall Street's dark pools are 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.520 becoming even more opaque with the introduction of private rooms. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.240 These rooms allow firms to control who they trade with 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.840 and the ability to hide big equity deals from impacting prices. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:13.280 For more. 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.880 We were joined by Katherine Dority, Bloomberg Finance reporter when 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.080 we first asked Catherine to remind us what dark holes 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:18.680 even are. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:20.919 So the name is nefarious. 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.760 It sounds like there's something evil going on, but all 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.600 it really is is trying to show is the trading 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.840 that is happening off the large exchanges. That are the 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.119 lit venues that you see the trading and all the 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.840 activity happening in real time. The trading that happens off 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.919 the New York Stock Exchange off Nasdaq in these alternative 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:43.600 trading systems, those. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.400 Are the proverbial dark pools. 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.680 So the trend that I've been tracking is this introduction 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.240 in the last few years of private rooms, and all 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:57.400 this is is segmented. It's the ability to choose who 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.879 you're interacting with and where within these dark pools. So 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.040 in many ways you can think about it as the 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.200 darker version of. 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:05.840 The dark pool. 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:10.520 What percentage of volume an equity volume is in dark 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:11.840 pools broadly defined. 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.200 So for the first time, off exchange trading in dark 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.120 pools has actually surpassed fifty percent, so it's become the majority, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.280 and that was by the end of last year. So 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:25.280 that's another significant trend. The percentage of private room trading, 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.760 that's the big question mark, because these alternative trading systems 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.800 don't need to break out the volumes within their private rooms. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.880 They disclose that they have private rooms, but the number 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:41.480 of private rooms and how much volume is actually happening trading. 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.800