1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: I was sentenced to eight years. I did five years. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: I did five fits. 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 2: It's hard time. 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: You know what. I wouldn't trade one second of it 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: because of where I am now. I wouldn't trade one 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: second net one. 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: inner city Memphis. And that last part it somehow led 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. It's 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: That's us, just you and me to citing. Hey, you 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 2: know what, maybe I can help. That's what Buddy Osborne, 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: the voice you just heard, has done. Buddy is the 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: founder of The Rock Ministries, which was birth out of 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: time in prison, his redemption story in Christ and being 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: a Golden Gloves boxing champion and guys, he is hilarious. 22 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: The Rock started by serving inner city boys with boxing 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: and the gospel and has grown to serving over eleven 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: thousand kids through sports, arts, music, mentoring, Bible studies, and 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: just about anything else you can imagine or that Buddy 26 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: can come up with. And all of this is taking 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: place amidst the largest open air drug market in the 28 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: world and some of the most dangerous blocks in the 29 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: United States. I cannot wait for you to meet our 30 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: new friend, Buddy. Right after these brief messages from our 31 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: general sponsors, Buddy Osbourne from Kensington, Pennsylvania. Welcome to Memphis. 32 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: Listen to be here, bro A. When'd you fly out 33 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: to Philly Philly? Yeah? Yeah, they got a direct flight. 34 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: Uh no, I had. I went to Atlanta and Delta 35 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 1: them yeah, Deltia Yeah yeah. 36 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Well, welcome to Memphis, Buddy. You've got a 37 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: really great story, and I cannot wait for our listeners 38 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: to hear about what you're doing now, which is Rock Ministries, 39 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 2: which you founded. But the path that got you there 40 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: is pretty pretty extraordinary. And when people hear Kensington, Penncil, 41 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: I don't think many know what we're talking about, although 42 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: we're talking about right outside of Philly, but Germane to 43 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 2: your story. Really, I don't even think you'd be where 44 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: you are today if it wasn't for the way you 45 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: grew up. Kind of kind of start us off by 46 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: telling us about Kensington, about you know, how you grew 47 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: up and where you came from. 48 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: Well, Kensington is a Philadelphia, right, Kensington yet, but Philadelphia 49 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: is a city of neighborhoods built and you know, so 50 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: you have Kensington, Port, Richmond, Fishtown. So whenever you come 51 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: in contact with somebody, you'll say where you're from. And 52 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: once they tell you where, you know, you'll know what 53 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: type of guy. 54 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: Believe it, So nobody says I'm from Philly. They say 55 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: I'm from Fishtown or I'm from Kensingy. 56 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: Well you can say you're from Philly, but we're at yeah. Yeah. 57 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: So whenever somebody tells me where they're from, okay, you know, 58 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: I'll know exactly what what caliber they are. 59 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: So when you say, do you say Kensington or do 60 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: you Kensey or what do you say? 61 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: He said, Well, well, there's a thing called the slang 62 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: called Kenzo's like if you're a Kenzo, Yeah you're a Kenzo. 63 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: Yeah that's funny, But no, I'm from I'm from I 64 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: was born and raising Kensington. 65 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: You know that's if you say, I'm from Kensington. What 66 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: is somebody from Philly here when they hear that? 67 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I was growing up, I didn't 68 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: never want people to know I was from Kensington, you know, yeah, 69 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: because it just was from me. For me at that time, 70 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, I had a full head of hair, blat, 71 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: it was dark. I was fit as a fiddle, you know. 72 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: I just you know, you know, you're out in about 73 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: and I got that at age where I want. I 74 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: was wanted to meet the girls and this and that. 75 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: So South Philly was a lot of Italians, you know, 76 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: and so for some reason, I just I equated with them, 77 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: you know, and I would I would stop, I would 78 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: dress like them and all, you know. So it was 79 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: so real. Good friend of mine, right, he would have 80 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: a tattoo Kensington, and I said, I don't nobody were. 81 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: But now but now I'm so honored and so proud 82 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: and so amazed, and I'm that I that I came back. 83 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: I left when I was twenty six, came back at 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: forty five to start the rock and which we'll get into. 85 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: But Kensington is a is a you know, it's it 86 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: was the manufacturing community of the country at one time. 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean really, oh yeah, with hats and sweaters and 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 1: blankets and textiles, textile mills. Yeah yeah, textile exactly. And uh, 89 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: every corner you had, you had a factory. Everyone worked. 90 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Uh the employment was one hundred percent. It was amazing. 91 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like I remember as a kid, 92 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: just you know, just it was amazing, amazing. The seventies, 93 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: you know, we were we were starting to fade and 94 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: and and that's when really drugs really start to make 95 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: its way in into Kensington. A lot of the people 96 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: that were you know, you know, working class, you know, 97 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: all jobs, everybody's working. The factories is shutting down one 98 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: by one and then and they were just they just 99 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: abandoned the factories. And then ultimately and time, as time 100 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: went on, then poverty came in and and you know, 101 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: just and the family structure changed, you know. 102 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: Between family structure. How did you go up? What's your 103 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: family structure? 104 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? I have eleven brothers and sisters. Yeah, it's gotta 105 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: be yeah yeah yeah, race Catholic, race Catholic. Yeah yeah, 106 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: but I had, you know, like my dad, yeah, Irish German. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 107 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, so, I mean my mom, I the truth 108 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: of the matter is my father had you know, a 109 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: couple of different women, you know, and so I got 110 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, so he he. But my mother raised nine 111 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: of us and two of us my dad. My dad 112 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: kind of right race on his own, you know, two 113 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: of my other my brothers and sisters. Yeah, so I yeah, 114 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: family of eleven. But my mom, like I said, had 115 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: we had two sets of twins. The oldest and the 116 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: youngest are twins. So just really you know, grew up 117 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: in an Irish Catholic family, which is you know, I 118 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: guess she. 119 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 2: Would say, and uh, couldn't have been much money. 120 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: No, No, my mother, well, my mother she she she 121 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: rented a house all the time. And then, as I recall, 122 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: I think it was like in nineteen seventy one, she 123 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: purchased her first house for eleven thousand dollars in Kensington 124 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: because she was she was from Kensington and my father 125 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: is from Kensington, you know, and that was the first 126 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: house she she ever owned, you know, wow. Yeah, so 127 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: three bedroom you know, nine eleven or nine nine yeah, 128 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: nine Yeah, kenn we were bunk beds man. I was 129 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: a bunk bed kid. 130 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 131 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: I had to be stack yeah, So yeah, I mean 132 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: it was it was really it was really, but I'll 133 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: tell you it was when I look back, when a 134 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: mom did the best she could, you know what I mean, brother, 135 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: And uh yeah, she was you know, you know, I'll 136 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: tell you interesting to worry with mom. Yeah, I mean 137 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: she she We moved her out of Kensington when she 138 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: was fifty. We moved her down to the shore, New 139 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: Jersey and single home, you know, because Atlantic City was 140 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: starting to come up like big time, all the casinos 141 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: and so my mom was was a leader, like she 142 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: was a worker. She just had this way about her. 143 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: Not college educated, but very bright, very smart. You know, 144 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: back in the day, the twelfth grade education was like 145 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: more than a college education today. The folks back in 146 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: the World War two, gays, man, they were smart, right, 147 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: I mean diligent. So so mom, we moved her down 148 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: there and she was she wound up work in the 149 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: Trump's Trump Plaza and she was sweeping the floors and 150 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: she would make more money in the bathroom because she 151 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: would find the coin. The coin's been like, you know, 152 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: and then and so I remember one time she found 153 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: like a two thousand dollars chip back in like the 154 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: like in the in the late seven of these early 155 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: early wow you know, for a working person. So I 156 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: say this for this reason, my mom wound up working 157 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: her way up the ladder and she became the genuine manager. 158 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: And she would she worked for Trump's wife. She would 159 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: receive when Trump would come in on a helicopter. My 160 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: mother would be up there with I think it's Ivanka, 161 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: his first wife. Yeah. So, and she would she loved 162 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: she loved my mom. My mom loved her, you know. 163 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: So she dealt behind the house, she ran the environmental 164 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: She had two hundred and fifty employees. 165 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: Kid, oh no, no. 166 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: And Trump gave her a couple awards, you know. But 167 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: she was hard worker, man, you know, just a good, 168 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: good woman. You know. She she had her hands full 169 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: of me though, I guess. Yeah. 170 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: So you grow up in this house of nine kids, yes, 171 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: or this family with eleven and what was growing up 172 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: in Kensington like for you in those days? What'd you do? 173 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: What were you? Yeah? Man, you have some great questions. Well, 174 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, look at you know, when you don't have 175 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: a dad, a father figure, you know, you know, it's tough, 176 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: it's it's it can be hard because as a as 177 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: a young boy, you know, like in hindsight, I mean 178 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm sixty five now and I can look back and say, man, 179 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: you know and you know it's how important a father 180 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: is in the life of a child, you know so 181 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: and I think you know that too. 182 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 2: Well. 183 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean I was a I had gotten 184 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: uh this rare form of ostium. The lightness of my 185 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: right what of my that's big words, lightess it was 186 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: my answer. Yeah. Yeah, it was a form of bone 187 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: of bone cancer like. And what happened when they were 188 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: going to amputate my my right leg from my knee down. 189 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: As a young boy, how were you I was only 190 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: about seven, oh gosh seven yeah, yeah, so so so 191 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: I spent like I spent almost two years in the hospital, 192 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: believe it or not, back in the day because well, 193 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: because what happened. The pain was umbarrabed umbarable was so 194 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: bad because you know when you get bone like, when 195 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: you get a problem with a bone. I mean it's 196 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: just so I was itching, itching, itching, so long stories. 197 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: I had five operations, and finally a guy from Japan, 198 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: a doctor from Japan, as I recall, he uh he 199 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: basically you know, did some did dead America? I mean, 200 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: I don't know. He shelled it all out and so 201 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: I had one foot at ten and another and eight 202 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: from from a cast. Always being always in isolation. You 203 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: had to wear a mask and gown. But you know, 204 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: it's interesting. I remember being in the hospital, in the 205 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: hospital and I'm looking through the like the window, and 206 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: I see this this guy with a with a jacket on. 207 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: It had his name on the back, Joe Frasier, right, 208 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: and I see him talking to a kid there. 209 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: Right. 210 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was at the time, but 211 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: but it was, you know, he was he won the 212 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: gold medal, you know, Joe Fraser who everybody was Joe Frasier, right. 213 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: So it was his nephew, which his brother has a brother, Tommy. 214 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: It was his nephew. I didn't know that until later 215 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: in life because yeah, yep, yep, you're right. 216 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 217 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: So anyway, he so Marvis want up becoming a real 218 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: good friend of mine, you know, so so Joe. So 219 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: his nephew wound up coming into my room and me 220 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: and him would fight each other. And one day I 221 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: get he hits, I get hit and I and I 222 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: had a wheelchair and I want to close my wheelchair 223 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: closed up on me. But it's what they. 224 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: Were. 225 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: They were visiting. He was visiting his nephew, Tommy's son. 226 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 2: No kid, he was. 227 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: He had something going on too. I don't know what 228 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: it was, but but him, him and I wound up 229 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: in the same room and we had a big fight him. 230 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: You know, we would fight and I got you know, 231 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: we used to hit the back of it. We used 232 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: to hit the you know, the bedrail like it and said, 233 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: oh look I watch this little that I know that 234 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: I would become a boxer one day, you know. So yeah, 235 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: I mean, Kensington was it was a It was a 236 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: it was a It was a city of neighborhoods. It 237 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: was solid and a lot of Irish Catholics at the time, 238 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: and you know, neighbors looked out for one another. 239 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: I read one time you said, when you were growing up, 240 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: you became one or three things. A cop, a pre 241 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: storre convict. Yeah. Really kind of the mentality back then. 242 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Well, you know, listen again, it lends to the question 243 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: about not having a father. So what happens is when 244 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: you're a young boy, you're going to latch onto something 245 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: of a of a of a male figure, and some 246 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: sometimes at most times, it could be the wrong male figure. 247 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: And working with thousands of kids over the years. I'm 248 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: a testimony to that because to see it in my 249 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: own life. Yeah, I mean I U, I latched on 250 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: to I got in bobed at a young age, you know, 251 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: with some interesting men, you know, interesting guys. 252 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: And yeah, I remember reading that you said by thirteen 253 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: you were want to be gangster? Wow, what does that 254 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: look like in nineteen that would have been nineteen seventy. 255 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like, well, probably I was nineteen seventy. 256 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: I was, I was ten years old, I was eleven 257 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: years old. We all had like black cashmere jackets we 258 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: had we had we had eleven year old. Yeah, we 259 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: had lead. We had lead we got we would get 260 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: lead and we would bang it, bang it down flat 261 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: and we would make it. We put black tape. We 262 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: would put that in our in our in our pocket 263 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: like it was a leadstick, like you know, like we 264 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: were we thought we were with a bomb. 265 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: Like it was up. 266 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: What's up? Man? I mean we we really thought we 267 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: were real for real. Yeah, yeah, so so we we 268 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: were remember of the Bridge Gang. You start this gang 269 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: called the Bridge Gang, and yeah, it was pretty intense. 270 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our gener sponsors. But 271 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: first I hope you'll consider signing up to join the 272 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: army at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll 273 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: receive a weekly email with short episodes summaries in case 274 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: you happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer 275 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: reading about our incredible guests, we'll be right back. 276 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: So, yeah, you know, we got involved in Simph and 277 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: glue tiewall. It was big back in the day. Went 278 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: through a phase of that, and then and then I 279 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: remember Heroin actually coming in, you know, and I remember 280 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: it around seventy three, seventy four, I believe it was. 281 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: It was it was before that, but I remember a 282 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: guy standing on a corner I know his name, and 283 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: he's wrapping his arm to looking and then he drills 284 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: a needle on his arm. And there was five kids 285 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: that were watching us, and all of them became addicts. 286 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: You know. I lived by this mottol it more is 287 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: caught than taught, you know. And my brother was one 288 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: of them, and he yeah, my brother was one of them. 289 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: And three of them have you know, died from complications 290 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: of drugs and my brother was one of them. Yeah. 291 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 2: So do you think this reality of the way you 292 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: grew up was a combination of no father, tough neighborhood, 293 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: and then all the jobs leaving as a result of 294 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: the textile industry falling apart. I mean, was that kind 295 00:16:58,680 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: of the perfect storm? 296 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: I am? 297 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: I hearing that right? 298 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: Well, you know what? You probably you are right. I 299 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: mean I never really thought of it that way. I 300 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: just think I was a young kid who was waywort 301 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: and became way wart. In fact, I was a at 302 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: ten years old. My mom took me to a psychiatrist. 303 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: And I'll never forget as long as I live, I 304 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: go to the psychiatrist. I was. I was a diagnosis 305 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: being a nonconformist at a young age. My mom I 306 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: shared a rough time with me. Yeah, that was a diagnose. Yeah, 307 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: so what do you hear this? This ding was? I 308 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: go zre off? Right? So I go into this this thing, right. 309 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: I walk in the door, and I don't see anybody. 310 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: The receptions left me and I sat there, and then 311 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: then she said, okay, you can go in. I walk 312 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: in this door liquid. All of a sudden, the guy's 313 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: behind the desk. He pops up out of the desk boom, 314 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: and he hits me with a with a with a 315 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: rubber band brang. 316 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: You kidding, I said, But I was. 317 00:17:58,280 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: I grab we had a rubber band. 318 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 2: It was amazing. So he wound up. 319 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: Becoming the psychiatrist to the stars in Vegas, believe or not. Yeah, no, 320 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: no funny story. But yeah, so at so at ten, 321 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: but at thirteen, that's when I got involved in boxing. 322 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: My father actually took me to the place, you know. 323 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 2: Was it We got to get this kid an outlet. 324 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: Let's take them to the gym. Yes, I went to 325 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: the gym, and we go back to a seconds. So 326 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: you had this cancer. Obviously they didn't amprotect your leg 327 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: because I'm looking at it. Because the Japanese guy did something, 328 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: Yeah he did. I'm sure that's a whole story too. 329 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 2: So do you think that also led to part of 330 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: where you were headed being cooped up at a hospital 331 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: for two years. 332 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. I I what happened was I 333 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: wanted to play sports, but I was always was insecure, 334 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I want to play football, and man, 335 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: I got my chance. I was on one hundred and 336 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: twenty pounds, right, you know, And so I went with 337 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: three of three of you know, three of my friends. 338 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: We went and we go in and you know, get 339 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: everything on. I remember, I felt so like, man, I 340 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: got that im on, I got my uniform, my cleats, 341 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: well guess what. I put my hip pads on as 342 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: my my shoulder pads, I said, and everybody busted on me. 343 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: I was like, so another time, So another time, we 344 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: were playing under the lights and we were playing the 345 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: Leprechauns in Jersey and it was and we're poor kids 346 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: from Kensington, like we don't We're just crazy, you know. 347 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: So we get in there and Mooney was our coach 348 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: and he, you know, he said, I was boring, get 349 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: in there, linebacker. So I'm in the middle lineberg. I'm 350 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: in here, I said to Pierceder, whatever, what are you know? 351 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: Cause it wasn't. It didn't come to me Bill, you know, 352 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: it didn't come to me. Like I'm like, I'm watching 353 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: the guy. And these guys were like under the lights, 354 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: they had the cleanest uniform. They were im amazing. Man, 355 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: I go, I grabbed that guy. Bam, I dump him 356 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: and I'm getting down the whistle bluw. I didn't care. 357 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm like guilt down. It was a fake fake he 358 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: didn't have the ball. So so it just goes on 359 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: and on and on. I you know, I tried soccer 360 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: and baseball. I hit a home run that ran all 361 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: the bases, but it was foul. You know, that's a 362 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: true story. But when I got intovolved in boxing. 363 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 2: I realized that that was that was found a home. 364 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I did. I found something that would become you know, 365 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, it was quite a career that I had. 366 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: I represented. 367 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: You know, you show up, I assume a Golden Gloves 368 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 2: gym or something. 369 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: No, I go, well, it was a gym, it was. 370 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: It was not It wasn't a Golden Gloves gym. It 371 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: was just a gym at the time. And it was 372 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. It was in Kensington and you walked 373 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: up these steps. I mean, it's it's been in a 374 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: couple two or three movies. It was in Creed and 375 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: really yeah, yeah, it's been nice. Yeah yeah, the place 376 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: was in yeah. Uh so, I mean yeah, I mean 377 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was quite a quite an experience. So, yeah, 378 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: I show up at this gym. I'm one hundred and 379 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: twenty six pounds and the guy that I that I 380 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: went with, he was about five years older than me, 381 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: maybe four years older. He was a buck sixty and 382 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: they all took a lik in him. Irish kid. Man 383 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: could he fight? He was a puncher, didn't have any 384 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: any any science behind what he did. But man, when 385 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: you when you he threw that shot, like, oh, what 386 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: was she at? You know? 387 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: Was it one of those when it hit different? 388 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it was a haymaker. He could punch. 389 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: And but I stuck in there and I hung in 390 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: there and uh and I ultimately picked up a trainer, 391 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: and at sixteen, I was number one in the city. 392 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: At nineteen, I was number one in the state. At twenty, 393 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: I was a top ten in the country. And what wait, middleweight? 394 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: Yeah I was. I was sixty five one sixty five. 395 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, middleweight. It's an interesting way. I boxed a little yeah, 396 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 2: coming up, But what did you what did you weigh? 397 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: Was you won? Seventy five one seventy five? 398 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's late, that's considered late heavyweight. 399 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, which I was not good. Listen hear me when 400 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: I tell you I didn't. I was nothing. Okay. I 401 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: was really really good at getting punched. I could get 402 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 2: punched well, and I could stand up while I was punched. 403 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 2: But that was it. But middleweight middleweight to me, is 404 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 2: that weight that you've got to be able to throw 405 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: hard punches, but you're still small enough that you move quickly. 406 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: I think middle age. 407 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah you you hit that right, Yeah, because they're typically, 408 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: you know, very good punchers and quick with their hands. 409 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a tough division. 410 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: It's a tough, tough division. So here you are. You're 411 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 2: top in the state at sixteen at middleway. 412 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was a number one in the 413 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: city at the time, and I didn't I had won 414 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: the Golden Gloves just yet. I actually had. I did 415 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: win the Junior Olympics and and but I didn't win 416 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: the Golden Gloves yet. I won the Golden Gloves at 417 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen and then nineteen I wanted. 418 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: And that's unbelievable. I mean, yeah, people listing who don't 419 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 2: know anything about boxing, which is probably most that really don't. 420 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: I mean, when you're there, you're on a track to 421 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 2: be on national team possibly Olympics, and you know, I mean, 422 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 2: that's those are the best of the best. Tough kid, 423 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: it was so your you found your home at that 424 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 2: time in your life. 425 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean, well, I found I found the sport that 426 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: I could that I could excel at because I couldn't 427 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: do it. For whatever reason, I could not do it. 428 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: And I'll share something with you when I got a 429 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: chance to play softball when I was about twenty six. 430 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: But that's we'll get to that. 431 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, But so so. 432 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: I gotta believe coming from Kensington, coming from where we 433 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: are and now is the state guy in Golden Gloves, 434 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: nobody really screwed with you anymore, did they? 435 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? And I know you're right. Well, here's the thing. 436 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: What I've what I've come to find out in my 437 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: life and growing up, is that tough guys really don't 438 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: have to you know, they don't have to defend themselves, 439 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, and how tough they are, they're gentlemen, you know. 440 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's guys that are insecure, you know that 441 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: that somehow, some way always seemed like they had to 442 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: prove themselves. So because as I got better, the better 443 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: I got with my hands, the more I realized that 444 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: I could beat all the guys that I feared or 445 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: I was, you know, afraid of, but I never I 446 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: never had to do that. And we just come to 447 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: a respect, you know, like you know what I mean. 448 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: And in the city, you know, believe it or not. 449 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: People know when you're tough, like the older I get 450 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: the tough riot. 451 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: I was people fifty six years old, and I still 452 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 2: remember the guys in high school that you just did 453 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: not screw. 454 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, there you go. 455 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: Well, okay, there you got fifty six that they walked 456 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 2: through this door right now, still wouldn't screw them. 457 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. Well there's there's a code of of honor, 458 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: you know amongst tough, tough guys. Tough guys don't have 459 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: to they don't have to defend themselves, you know, but 460 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 1: when it comes their way, you rise to the occasion. 461 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: So now you're the state champ. Where does it go 462 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 2: from there? 463 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so I go let me see, let me see state. 464 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: So I win, I win the state championship, golden gloves, 465 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: I win the City of Philadelphia, I win the region, 466 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: and then I win the state and then I go 467 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: represent you know, I represent Pennsylvania in the Nationals. And 468 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: I flew down to uh Louisiana and my first fight, 469 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: I handled a guy, you know, done. Second fight, I 470 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: got a guy from Chicago, and he came in with 471 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: more medals and on his hat and his robe and 472 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: he was. He was an Olympian and all and first 473 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: round bang down on you know, second I mean first 474 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: round again, boom down. They put him down twice. Second round, 475 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: put him down twice. I lost the fight. 476 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: You're kidding. 477 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: No, I'm not kidding. I lost the fight. So so 478 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, I made it to the quarterfinals there and then. 479 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: But it was all good. 480 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean it was you know, it is what it is. 481 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 2: I mean. 482 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: Then I made the I made the USA boxing team, 483 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, which that was fun. 484 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 2: That's crazy. Where'd you where'd you had over them? 485 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? I did well. I fought the uh let's see, 486 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: I fought I went to my first one time. I 487 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: went to Sweden. I fought the Swedish kid. You know. 488 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: In fact, I was out to dinner two weeks ago 489 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: on a Sunday with a couple of people. His wife 490 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: is born in Sweden. She's still goes over. I said, 491 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: I for Sweden, he said. When I says he was 492 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: an Olympian, it was in nineteen eighty one and ten 493 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: thousand people in the arena, the USA team. We went 494 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: in the bus. They were rocking the bus. We get 495 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: in there and man, I'm a tall kid. Bah bah, 496 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: I mean it was on right and the winner from 497 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: the United States of America, Buddy Osborn. Oh man, it 498 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: was amazing, everybody whistleing. I'm like, this is great. Well 499 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: here I find out whistle on is like a bood. 500 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: So I go. So I go back in the dressing room. 501 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: Fifteen minutes later, no joke, I get changed. My teammate 502 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: comes in and says, they want you outside. So what 503 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: they did they reversed the decision and they gave it 504 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: to that guy. 505 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: Are you kidding? 506 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: No, But here's what happened. I saw it in the 507 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: paper with my hands raised and with my trunks on, 508 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: his head down, and then another picture it has my 509 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: head down in his hands raised, you know. So, but 510 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: what happened? So I told him his son was there. 511 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: I said, I would love to get that picture and 512 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: that write up. He goes on and he finds he 513 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: finds the article. There's no picture and the guy's name, 514 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: and it gives a little article about many years later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 515 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: the guy's name. He was, he was in the nineteen 516 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: eighty Olympics. The guy. 517 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: Wow. 518 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: So then I went into uh. I went from there 519 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: and I went to Denmark and I go out and 520 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: it's American referee, and I go down right, and then 521 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: he gets up again. If you knock a guy down 522 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: three times in the one round, he's done, it's all right. 523 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: But goes down again. Go back to the corner. Now 524 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: I remember what happened to me with the internationals second round. 525 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: Bang down again, boom down again. He is right. I 526 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: was so frustrated. Now he's fighting a little dirty. So 527 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: I look, I see the referee. I get here right, 528 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: and I get him right. I bite him. I bid him, 529 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: I bit his ear. 530 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 2: I didn't bite at all. You weren't, So you know 531 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 2: what that happened in Memphis. 532 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: Oh the talk. 533 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 2: Was here was here? Wasn't really about that? 534 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: Well then I met at home. 535 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: Well guess what I did it before, Tyson. But I 536 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: didn't bite all. But you know what happened. 537 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: And then because I was frustrated, I didn't want to 538 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: lose this fight. I won the fight, by the way. 539 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: So we're sitting at a press conference, no joke. So 540 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: I'm here, he's here, and then then the other the 541 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: other guys there and each of our teammates. So I said, 542 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: what happened to your what happened here? And this is 543 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: no joke. He says, you bit me, you dirty boss. 544 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: Like the way he said, it was like the whole 545 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: place went nuts. And then I went and then I 546 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: went to Norway, and then and then I the guy 547 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: out stretched him and the in the first round and 548 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: it was great, you. 549 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: Know, stretched them. 550 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was so I really had a really 551 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: I had an amazing career. But at the age of 552 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: twenty two, I was I had ninety fights. 553 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 2: Good, that's a lot of fights. Yeah, and I just 554 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 2: you're lucky you were punch drunk at twenty two. 555 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 556 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's a lot of fights. Yeah, but 557 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: it's it is. 558 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: It is. But there's kids now that have two hundred fights. 559 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: But you know, but it was, it was. It was 560 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: a great experience for me. You know, it was so 561 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: so amazing. 562 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. So now here you are. You're 563 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: twenty two, twenty three, You've had this great experience and 564 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: you find yourself back in Kensington. Yeah, yes, yes, So 565 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: what do you do? Wow? Huh, tough guy. 566 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what. I left Kensington at nineteen 567 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: and I went into a training camp I lived. I 568 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: don't know whether you remember a guy Hawridersell, you remember 569 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: how who So here I am. I'm in a training camp. Yeah, 570 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: you have a voice like him. Yeah. So I remember 571 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: I lived in a like in Kensington. There's no trees, 572 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: you know. So I go to this place in this 573 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: training camp. This is my new trainer and the guy 574 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: who drove me. They his name is Marky. They called 575 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: us to Kensington Connection because he was a one bad dude. 576 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: He was a couple of years younger than me. Man 577 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: could he fight. He had a liver shot that would 578 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: he would knock a heavyweights out with his liver shot. 579 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: He just knew how to get it. He was like, 580 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: and you can't recover from that, you know. So so 581 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: he said, listen, I'm going because I had stopped boxing 582 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: at the Kensington gym. He says, I've been going up 583 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: with this other gym. So you come on, I go up, 584 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: he says, listen. The trainer there, he's different. Well okay, 585 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: because he has everybody fight the same way. So I go. 586 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: I go up. 587 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: Sure enough, he gets me and he has me like 588 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: this with my hand like that. 589 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: It was just so awkward for me. 590 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, because I had like fifty fights at the time, 591 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: Like I had more fights than all of them there. 592 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'll do it, you know, and then 593 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: sure enough I wound up staying there. And he really 594 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: became like a mentor to me, you know. And he 595 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: was a he was a powerful labor leader and you know, 596 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: and and that's that Lin that goes into something you 597 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: know that we'll talk about. But he was a well 598 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: known man, you know, and just politically connected and just 599 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, just a you know, and a soldier. So 600 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: this long story short, he developed he developed a really 601 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: good boxing team. And it's interesting, it's it's he I 602 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: remember his There was a picture it says boys in 603 00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: sports stay out of court. 604 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: It's you know, boys in born state out of course. 605 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: Yes, but if you looked at that now, out of 606 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: all of the guys that were in that picture, everyone 607 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: is probably about three hundred and thirty years of incarceration 608 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: with all of them. 609 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, tough kids, tough area. 610 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 611 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: So you're back, you've been overseas, you've done your box 612 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: and you've got your ninety fives. You're back in Kensington. 613 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 2: What's next for Buddy. 614 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: Well? I One of the things that in Kensington is 615 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: the trade is there's a trade called as a roofer 616 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, and I always wanted to be a roofer man. 617 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: So I was sixteen years old at the time. 618 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: Seven money. 619 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: It was great man, It was a great and it 620 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: was there was a status to it. You know. See 621 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: when I was a young kid, when guys went to prison, 622 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: it was a badge of honor. 623 00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 2: You know. 624 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: I know it's a warp mentality to think about. But 625 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: when you're a way work kid and you're. 626 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: Lookay something, brother, you know, it is so interesting. Now 627 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: say here we go on a divergent conversation, but it 628 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 2: is so interesting to me. Howdy fit sixty five, sixty 629 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: five years old and you're talking about boxing and growing 630 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 2: up tough. And we've heard about as a thirteen year 631 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 2: old watching heroin or drugs being used on a street corner. 632 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: And now you talk about when you're growing up, you know, 633 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 2: going to going to prison as a badge of honor. 634 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 2: And this is seventies eighties and you're a white Irish 635 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: Catholic guy, all right. And then we look at so 636 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 2: many of the lost areas in communities today and in 637 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 2: the inner city, and they're largely black with doing some 638 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 2: of the same stuff. And there is this thing inside 639 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 2: the inner city and gangs today that is about street red, yes, 640 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 2: which is doing time and all of that. And it 641 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 2: screams to me that this is not a racial thing. 642 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 2: It's a socioeconomic thing. And I just think it's very 643 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: interesting that your life growing up mirrors many young strapping 644 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: kids life today growing up that I've coached and worked with. 645 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 2: They're no different, not any different at all. And it 646 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: doesn't have anything to do with race. It doesn't have 647 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 2: anything to do with any of that. It just has 648 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 2: to do with socioeconomics and the zip code at the 649 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 2: time of your birth. Often, what do you think about that? 650 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: Well, I think you got some good points there, you know, 651 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: I think for me, for me, you know, you have 652 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,879 Speaker 1: to really find out what is the truth in your life. 653 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: I mean as a young kid, and you know what 654 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: I mean, And I I knew in my own life 655 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: built to answer that question. I'm going to get back 656 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: to that that there was something missing, there was a 657 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: void in my life. So I was grabbing hold of 658 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 1: things that were just making me feel good and making 659 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: me feel relevant, and but I had no I had 660 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: no uh, I had no solid foundation, you know, like 661 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: there's a there's a there's a in scripture. It talks 662 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: about you know, and I use this with a lot 663 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: of kids that come in from the streets. You know, 664 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: I'll say, what's the first thing you do when you 665 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 1: build a house? I'll ask him that first, the first 666 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: thing I'll do. I'll say, hey, hey, have you ever thought? 667 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: They said, because I mean, fine, ever lost? 668 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: I says, is that right? 669 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: How you hold your hands? 670 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 2: And I'll put you say okay, I would. 671 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: Put you to sleep, but listen, but I let them 672 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: shoot the movie, let them do, let them do the thing. Coach, 673 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'll say, all right, so 674 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,479 Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. When you build a house. 675 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: What's the first thing you do? Wow? You know, we 676 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: go get the lumber, or we go get the materials. 677 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: I said, okay, get the architecture plans. All right, And 678 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 1: they name all these things and then all of a sudden, 679 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: I'm they found this, I said, perfect. So if you 680 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: build you if you build your house on the sand 681 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: and the wind, the rain, as it says in scripture, 682 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,959 Speaker 1: comes what house would say? It say, if you build 683 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: on the sand, or you're build on the rock. And 684 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: obviously they say the rock. I said, well, listen, that's 685 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: like your life now. Look, So what I'll do is 686 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: I'll stand up and I'll square off. I'll say push me, 687 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: and they'll go I said, no, push me. To push me, 688 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: I'll fall back and then I'll turn around. I'll put 689 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: my legs under me, shoulder with apart, hands high, chined down, 690 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: push me, bro go ahead. They can't even move me. 691 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: I said, you see that's sand and this is this 692 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: is rock. 693 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 2: Now let's do it. 694 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: And then before you know it, they start listening to 695 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: the conversation. They respond to things. Get your hand up, 696 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: get your left hand up, start using your job, you know. 697 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: So so you know it's it's it's it's it's just 698 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: bait that I use to bring in kids to to 699 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: check their heart because of that void that I lived 700 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: with and grew up with. You know, boxing was one thing, 701 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: but it progressed and seemed the propensity, propensity for violence 702 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: for me continued outside of boxing, you know. And so 703 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 1: as I was twenty two, I retired, I stopped boxing, 704 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: went back into Kensington, and then I worked my way 705 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 1: up into being a roofer and uh making a good living. 706 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: So I was at a crossroad I was in. I 707 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: was an apprentice at the time and it's a. 708 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: Four year apprenticeshipproach union job up there. 709 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: Yoh yeah yeah yeah yeah. So so what happened was. 710 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 2: Which means a good wage, yes, way to make it with. 711 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yes, yes yes. So so I take this responsibility. 712 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: I graduate from from apprenticeship school and I'm a second 713 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: hand to the foreman. So I had an opportunity to 714 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: be a shop steward or to be a foreman. And 715 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: I waited, said I'm would be a shop steward because 716 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: I like the union. I liked the whole thing. So 717 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: at the age of twenty five, I was I was 718 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: hired as a union organizer. So I leave, I go 719 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: to my I go to a job. It's a Friday, 720 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: and they called me to the hall union hall. I'm dirty, 721 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: I smell like pitch and the guy says, you know, buddy, 722 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 1: you know, we want to put you on as an organizer. 723 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: I had got wind of it. I said, wow, that's unbelievable. 724 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: I go, I pick out a brand new car. I 725 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: come in. That's a Friday. I come into the union 726 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: hall on a Monday morning. I got gap bedeen pants on, 727 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: I got beautiful shoes, hair is combed, back shirt, smelling good, 728 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 1: got my brand new car. I'm ready and and sure enough, 729 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, I love what I did. I love what 730 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: I did. Now was it right? 731 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 2: Let's talk about what a union organizer does, didn't he? Listen? Man, 732 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 2: you got to remember this is the Southeast. Unions are 733 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 2: not big down here on the northeast of the Midwest, 734 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 2: not at all. We're we're we're you know, our history 735 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 2: is not manufacturing. Our history is farming. Our history is yeah, 736 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 2: you know, there's certainly manufacturing down here, but as a result, 737 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 2: it's just not as big of a union presence in 738 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 2: the Southeast for the blue collar middle class. So I'm 739 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 2: just asking an organizer, does that mean you're out there 740 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 2: representing the union trying to get other roofers to join 741 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 2: the union, are you? 742 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: So here's what, here's what the way the way it went. 743 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: You got to remember the roofers Union were feared. They 744 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: were feared. 745 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 2: Were they feared? 746 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: Well, they were feared because it was it was a 747 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: bunch of men that were either incarcerated. It meant a 748 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: long time. 749 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 2: That's tough. 750 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: They were really tough, violent, violent and uh so and 751 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: and you always bank robbers, you know, really oh yeah, 752 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: you know you name it, they were. They were in it, 753 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: and and and there. That was a trade that that 754 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: for some reason they were allowed to come in. Now, 755 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: I don't know whether you ever know anything about the 756 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: mob or anything like that in the cities of Philadelphia. Well, 757 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: in the eighties there was a mob war and twenty 758 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: eight men were killed in that war. The second person 759 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: it was, and the second person was killed was my boss. 760 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: He was assassinated in front of his wife, shot six 761 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: times in the head. 762 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 2: Roofing boss. Yeah, the union, the union boss. The union 763 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 2: got the union and the mob were so closely tied together. 764 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: No, here's what happened, was my my boss was sixty 765 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: years old. The union boss. He was a founder of 766 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: Local thirty roof Vish Union. His name was John McCullough. 767 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: He was He was a World War two hero, just 768 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: a strapping guy's crew haircut, just like you knew he was. 769 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: He was around one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet. 770 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: But oh yeah, there's no doubt about that that he was. 771 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: He was tough, There's no doubt about that. So Atlantic 772 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: City was popped up, so there was a lot of 773 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: a lot of building going on there, and and uh 774 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: and the mob was was was. You could look this up. 775 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: This is a matter of public record. The mob was 776 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: in there pretty good. They wanted to get in there 777 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: and and and build, you know. And and there was 778 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: a guy named Mickey Scarfo who who was who was 779 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: actually became the Mob of Philadelphia, you know. And but 780 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: he was he was put on the shelf, so to speak. 781 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: He was sent to Atlantic City because of he had 782 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: he was starting some trouble. And but but he hated 783 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: McCullough apparently, you know, he had a hatred and he 784 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: had a fear of him because but because you know, 785 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: he was fear fearful, I believe is from what you 786 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: read and hear. And remember that John was he was 787 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: John had all of Atlantic City like he was strong there. 788 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: He was. He was a presence in the Labor movie. 789 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: He was going to get all the roof ark well, 790 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: of course we would absolutely get all. But there was 791 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: more than that. He was just a he he was 792 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: union all. I mean, everybody just looked at him as 793 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: the savior in a sense, you know. And so anyway 794 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 1: he was. 795 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 2: Shot and killed and did you say in front of 796 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 2: his wife? 797 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a December sixteenth, nineteen eighty and he 798 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: the guy named William Moran, came in with points set 799 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 1: as a knock on the door and says, I have 800 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: more more? Can I go out? He's talking on the 801 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: phone or another guy I know. And then when he 802 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: came in, he pulled out a gun and shot him 803 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: six times in front of his wife. Yeah. Wow. And 804 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 1: they wound up, they wound up getting them, and they 805 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: got him, and they got the two people that were 806 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: behind it. And that's that's another story. But what happened 807 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: was I'm grafted into this. This was nineteen eighty so 808 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, five years later, I'm now hired as 809 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: an organizer, you know. And it was probably the most 810 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: fascinating time in my life because I'm an eighth grade dropout, 811 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, I'm an inner city kid. I'm a boxer. 812 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: I got I. 813 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 2: Now I'm a roof for thirty Yeah yeah, I mean yeah, 814 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 2: you've got the credibility. 815 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,919 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, street. Oh, there's no question about it. There's 816 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: no question about it. 817 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of my conversation with Buddy Osborne. 818 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 2: And listen, you don't want to miss part two. It's 819 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 2: just more Buddy be and Buddy it's available to listen 820 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 2: to right now. Together, guys, we can change this country, 821 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 2: but it starts with you. I'll see in Part two.