Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OOKF Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, folks,
Speaker 1: As we get ready to close out this year, and again,
Speaker 1: like I've been saying, I truly believe that the new year,
Speaker 1: your new year, your personal new year, should begin in
Speaker 1: the spring when nature begins it's new blossoming, and that
Speaker 1: winter should be a time of reflection of you know,
Speaker 1: a looking back, a retrospective, you know, balancing out the
Speaker 1: places where there is gratitude, the places for growth, and
Speaker 1: you know what good you want to continue carrying with
Speaker 1: you As the calendar year shifts, there's just so much pressure,
Speaker 1: I believe, in getting everything done and racing to the
Speaker 1: finish line, to only realize that nothing actually truly changes
Speaker 1: except for our perspective, which is pressured by society and
Speaker 1: Hallmark and sales and all of these things, and sending
Speaker 1: your last email. Also that you can take, what if
Speaker 1: you're lucky, a week off. So I just really want
Speaker 1: us to be thoughtful about how we each are deciding
Speaker 1: to close out the year. And so as the shows
Speaker 1: come up over the holiday break, we have pre recorded
Speaker 1: a bunch of shows that I am excited for you
Speaker 1: to listen to and people to either close out the
Speaker 1: year with or get to know for the very first time.
Speaker 1: But coming up in conversation first is my friend and
Speaker 1: co host of my other show, Democracy Ish, which comes
Speaker 1: up live on Thursdays our new episode drops. So if
Speaker 1: you have not been listening to Democracy Ish with my
Speaker 1: friend wajahat Ali, author and Daily Beasts columnist, you are
Speaker 1: certainly missing out on a fabulous thirty minutes each week
Speaker 1: where we bring on some of our favorite guests, or
Speaker 1: just get into conversations with the two of us and
Speaker 1: give our thoughts on the headlines as we volley back
Speaker 1: and forth. Waj has a fantastic book entitled Go Back
Speaker 1: to Your Country, and he just provides such sharp, keen, funny,
Speaker 1: sarcastic commentary that I adore. So I hope that you
Speaker 1: enjoy this coming episode with my friend Waja hot Ali. Folks,
Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily,
Speaker 1: my co host of Democracy Ish and author of the
Speaker 1: book Go Back to Where You Came From and columnist
Speaker 1: at the Daily Beast, Waja hot Ali and just all
Speaker 1: the things chie maker you know, father soul searcher, all
Speaker 1: of the things. You know, we are closing out the
Speaker 1: year a really I don't even what I here's the
Speaker 1: first question, what would you even call this past year?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: How were you closing out twenty twenty three? Feeling about
Speaker 1: the state of our politics, the state of our world?
Speaker 2: Exhausted but marginally optimistic because there's no other option for
Speaker 2: us as we enter perhaps one of the most pivotal
Speaker 2: years where I know it sounds like a cliche, folks,
Speaker 2: but you know, we try to fight for demococracy and
Speaker 2: we're up against an election in which the man who's
Speaker 2: going to be the leader of the Republican Party has
Speaker 2: openly said that he'll only be a dictator for the
Speaker 2: first day and he's admitted it, and we're just treating
Speaker 2: it as a normal And while that's happening overseas, we're
Speaker 2: seeing a bloody war which is rippling out. We're seeing
Speaker 2: a crackdown on freedom of speech, We're seeing a crackdown
Speaker 2: on all DII initiatives, basically people who look like you
Speaker 2: and me, Daniel, And there's climate change and Republicans have
Speaker 2: gone batchett and trying to take away women's rights, and
Speaker 2: dark money is flooding the zone, and we're seeing a
Speaker 2: splintering and fracturing of movements, and people are depressed, and
Speaker 2: there's third party candidates stepping up. But other than that,
Speaker 2: things are going really well on the holiday season.
Speaker 1: You know, you started off by saying marginally happy. So
Speaker 1: I have to ask, after you just listed out all
Speaker 1: of the things that we know to be true and
Speaker 1: talk about on this show, what is making you marginally
Speaker 1: like hopeful?
Speaker 2: The two things the opposite of hope is apathy, and
Speaker 2: I don't think we can afford to be apathetic with
Speaker 2: all the stakes that I tried my best to outline
Speaker 2: in the first minute. You know, the fact I have
Speaker 2: kids kids remind you that there's still innocence and decency
Speaker 2: and goodness. And to see the fact that my kids
Speaker 2: in particular and their friends like they get it. They
Speaker 2: seem to be very empathetic and kind. And then you
Speaker 2: also have to realize that I think there has to
Speaker 2: be more than a few of us, Danielle, who see
Speaker 2: what's at stake, and maybe just maybe within a year.
Speaker 2: You know, a year is a long time. Americans have
Speaker 2: intention events, so we can organize, and I do feel
Speaker 2: that maybe, just maybe, if we're lucky and we organize
Speaker 2: and we do the work. Maybe it's enough. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: enough to stave off what's happening. And I always tell people,
Speaker 2: apathy is what I fear most right, because apathy is
Speaker 2: what will depress the vote. It'll keep people at home,
Speaker 2: it will make people more cynical, it will make people
Speaker 2: more selfish, It'll make people say, you know what, if
Speaker 2: at all, I have to take care of myself and
Speaker 2: my wife and my kids, and that's it, and I'll
Speaker 2: write it out twenty thirty forty years. And that's how
Speaker 2: those forces that have literally told you the plot, like
Speaker 2: they're these terrible but very helpful bond villains who tell
Speaker 2: you in the first ten minutes like the plot they're
Speaker 2: telling you, especially with the attacks that are happening on
Speaker 2: higher education right now, with what's happening with Claude Deine Gay,
Speaker 2: like all the worst people are telling you what they
Speaker 2: want to do. So if you, like, if you don't
Speaker 2: step up and fight Danielle, it's over. So the fact
Speaker 2: that enough people care, that's what's giving me some marginal
Speaker 2: dose of optimism.
Speaker 1: So let's start, you know, with what we believe as
Speaker 1: of this recording, and as of right now is the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four matchup, which is a redux of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty with Biden and Donald Trump. Now, you and I,
Speaker 1: who talk about this each and every week on Democracy Ish,
Speaker 1: we say and lay out the stakes and lay out
Speaker 1: the differences, and we say there is no difference. Right,
Speaker 1: You're either going to vote for this sustainability of our
Speaker 1: democracy or you're going to allow authoritarianism to seed ground,
Speaker 1: right to grow roots and blossom in the United States.
Speaker 1: This is the either or proposition. And I know that
Speaker 1: you and I often get chastised in social media about
Speaker 1: saying this guy is falling, this guy is falling. It's
Speaker 1: not that bad being called hyperbolic, saying that we are overreacting,
Speaker 1: And so I just want you when people come to
Speaker 1: you and say those things, you're overreacting, it's not going
Speaker 1: to be that bad a Trump presidency. So what makes
Speaker 1: this time around any different?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, look at the track record, and when
Speaker 2: people show you who they are, believe them. Right to
Speaker 2: pare for is maya Angelou. If Donald Trump told you
Speaker 2: he's not leaving and he didn't leave, and there was
Speaker 2: a maga cult that tried to take over a free
Speaker 2: and for election and thankfully failed, and the US capital
Speaker 2: was burning. And there is a right wing movement which
Speaker 2: shares all the radicalized conspiracy theories that were once part
Speaker 2: of the fringe but are now mainstreamed, and it has
Speaker 2: resulted in violence against black people, against gay people, against Jews,
Speaker 2: against Muslims, against Latinos. And if teachers and doctors are
Speaker 2: telling law enforcement that we're under threat, and law enforcement
Speaker 2: itself is under threat, and the number one domestic terror
Speaker 2: threat several years running is white supremacist terrorism. And these
Speaker 2: people are now dining with Donald Trump, who by the way,
Speaker 2: told the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by
Speaker 2: and ate dinner with Nick Fuentes, and is now openly
Speaker 2: telling you that he will be a dictator, but only
Speaker 2: for the first day, and is openly enlisting people like
Speaker 2: Stephen Miller and Cash Patel who are openly telling you
Speaker 2: on live television that they will attack Donald Trump's enemies
Speaker 2: on day one, that they will purge the system, that
Speaker 2: they will go after media. And we have seen this happen. Danielle. Maybe,
Speaker 2: just maybe me and Danielle aren't crazy. Maybe just maybe
Speaker 2: listen to us, maybe just maybe forget us who are
Speaker 2: we We're nobody right, we're brown and black, Cassandra, forget us.
Speaker 2: Maybe listen to the criminals who are literally giving you
Speaker 2: the plot, literally telling you the day and the time
Speaker 2: and the date that they plan on robbing the bank,
Speaker 2: and giving you the blueprint, and telling you who's driving
Speaker 2: the escape vehicle, and telling you what gus they're gonna use.
Speaker 2: Maybe just listen to them, Danielle. And if you think
Speaker 2: I'm crazy, take your head out of the sand and
Speaker 2: pay attention to what's happening in this country over the
Speaker 2: past three years. And what we've always said is that
Speaker 2: January sixth was a test run. It was a rough draft,
Speaker 2: and they're going to try their best to perfect it.
Speaker 2: And then the last thing I'll say is, if you
Speaker 2: don't believe me, look at what Republicans are doing in
Speaker 2: every state where they have power, and how they're trying
Speaker 2: to attack women and people of color. You said, oh,
Speaker 2: they'll never get rid of abortion, until they did, and
Speaker 2: now they're telling you they're coming after marriage equality and contraceptives.
Speaker 2: You said, oh, watch, they'll never do that. I thought
Speaker 2: I was told my whole life, Danielle, Republicans will never
Speaker 2: take out abortion and here we are in twenty.
Speaker 1: Twenty three, right, and I think that we have been
Speaker 1: able to rest our laurels in precedent, thinking that, you know,
Speaker 1: which is the question that was asked at every Senate
Speaker 1: Judiciary hearing, right with Gorsic with a co COVID barn
Speaker 1: which is what I call her. With with Kavanaugh, it
Speaker 1: was will you uphold precedent right? Meaning Roe v. Wade.
Speaker 1: I would go so far as to say Brown versus
Speaker 1: the Board of Education. I'd go so far as back
Speaker 1: as to say plus E V. Birth, you know, like
Speaker 1: plus e V. Burke is in, and.
Speaker 2: They established, it's established.
Speaker 1: It's established, it's established. And so with their fingers crossed
Speaker 1: behind their backs and their bond villain smiles on, they
Speaker 1: nodded and smiled as they then, you know, three years later,
Speaker 1: would take away the rights of bodily autonomy for women
Speaker 1: and people with uteruses in this country. And so when
Speaker 1: they say they're going to go after marriage equality next,
Speaker 1: when they say that, you know, maybe we don't really
Speaker 1: like this whole thing called integration, right, and they may
Speaker 1: go after that after that, Virginia, loving v Virginia, they said, oh,
Speaker 1: affirmative action, that was only to be about colleges, and
Speaker 1: now they're suing venture capital firms that give money to
Speaker 1: marginalized black and brown businesses. So they're going after that
Speaker 1: because cruelty deprivation is the point, right.
Speaker 2: Because the education, then you also education. They're trying to
Speaker 2: gut education.
Speaker 1: So it's like every single way that we have watched
Speaker 1: black people, brown people, LGBTQ people, women make other advancements
Speaker 1: in our country, they are going after it because the
Speaker 1: only way for white fragility, toxicity, male cyst fascists to
Speaker 1: dominate is to subdue everybody else, which means undoing sixty
Speaker 1: plus years of progress in this country. I ask WAJ,
Speaker 1: you know we say this until we're blue in the face.
Speaker 1: They are doing it, as Steve Bennon said, village by village,
Speaker 1: city by city. We're watching them do it. And yet
Speaker 1: I have people in my comments section that are saying,
Speaker 1: we need a new candidate. I'm not voting for Biden.
Speaker 1: They're comfortably saying this in twenty twenty three. Do you
Speaker 1: think they change their minds as the calendar year changes.
Speaker 2: It's the same in my communities as well. And you know,
Speaker 2: you want to bash your head against the wall and
Speaker 2: then when folks like you and me, who I think
Speaker 2: have a good, I think, consistent track record of not
Speaker 2: being DNC shills. We criticize Biden and we criticized Democrats,
Speaker 2: and we try to be fair. If you don't believe me,
Speaker 2: just listen to our show Democracy Ish nice plug. But
Speaker 2: it's one of those situations where we say the perfect
Speaker 2: is the enemy of democracy. Okay, no one I was
Speaker 2: thinking about this yesterday, Danielle, like I was thinking about
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. No one was excited about Biden. And I'll
Speaker 2: give you an example in Virginia. Right, People forget that
Speaker 2: it was first Buddhajic and Budhjet was running away with it,
Speaker 2: and then Warren and then it was a Cliburn in
Speaker 2: South Carolina who tipped the skills for Biden. Because people
Speaker 2: of color, especially black people, have always been very pragmatic voters.
Speaker 2: They have always forfeited their own desires for the greater
Speaker 2: good of democracy. And what black voters and people of
Speaker 2: color in particular said, which white dude will other white
Speaker 2: people vote for, Which white dude will beat Trump? That
Speaker 2: was the calculus, right, So Cliburn goes for Biden. What
Speaker 2: happens Biden now gets a wind from the south. Right now,
Speaker 2: we're in Virginia where I'm at, and I could tell you, Danielle,
Speaker 2: like two days before the primaries, sixty five to seventy
Speaker 2: percent of Virginia Democratic voters were undecided. You know where
Speaker 2: we're deciding which white guy. Will white people vote for
Speaker 2: Sanders or Biden? It seems like Biden has the wind
Speaker 2: behind his back. We're going to vote for Biden. That's
Speaker 2: how Biden became the candidate. That's why Biden won. The
Speaker 2: number one reason why people voted for Biden was because
Speaker 2: who will beat Trump? Okay, So now fast forward to
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Are any of us excited about Biden? No,
Speaker 2: who cares. I'm excited about democracy. I'm terrified by fascism,
Speaker 2: and I know that if Donald Trump wins, or if
Speaker 2: any Republican wins, it's going to be fascism one oh one.
Speaker 2: So right now, Biden's the guy. Biden is alive, but
Speaker 2: he's running. Okay. All the Democrats are learning behind Biden.
Speaker 2: So for me, strategically, the horse that I'm betting on
Speaker 2: to beat Trump is Biden. I don't have to love him.
Speaker 2: I think he's failed in his Mid East policy. I
Speaker 2: think he's done a lot of good. I am worried
Speaker 2: about his age. I'm worried about Donald Trump, who's more
Speaker 2: unhealthy by the way than Biden. But guess what, he
Speaker 2: is a person who at the very least is saying
Speaker 2: I support democracy, I'm against fascism, I'm against the Muslim band.
Speaker 2: You know what, Black people shouldn't be shot and killed.
Speaker 2: You know what, gay marriage should be allowed. You know what,
Speaker 2: women should have the right to choose what they do
Speaker 2: with their body. You know what, if Democrats are in
Speaker 2: power and one of these old people in the Supreme
Speaker 2: Court dies, that means instead of having another conservative, right
Speaker 2: wing freakin fascist on the Supreme Court, there might be
Speaker 2: a chance for another judge Jackson right. And so if
Speaker 2: I could get five to four in the Supreme Court,
Speaker 2: maybe we can undo dark money. Maybe we can protect
Speaker 2: the environment, Maybe we can protect Roe. And that can
Speaker 2: save a generational onslaught that the Republicans have done for
Speaker 2: the past forty years to try to take over the
Speaker 2: Super Court, which they did. We can perhaps not necessarily
Speaker 2: undo it, but maybe we could stave it right. We
Speaker 2: could stave it for enough time to give to give
Speaker 2: us momentum. That's what I want people to think about, Danielle,
Speaker 2: that's the big picture.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, right, because again I agree
Speaker 1: the Biden administration and what they've been doing, particularly as
Speaker 1: it pertains to the Middle East and the aiding and
Speaker 1: a betting of Israel. Right now as they decimate, Gaza
Speaker 1: has a lot of people gen Z in particular, people
Speaker 1: of color, black and brown people, young people, queer people, angry,
Speaker 1: and we do not see them pivoting from this anytime soon.
Speaker 1: The question that I keep asking is how much death
Speaker 1: is enough right to And I want to remind folks
Speaker 1: too when I say this, the United States waited until
Speaker 1: six million Jewish people were killed murdered before they intervened
Speaker 1: in World War Two? Right, there are two point two
Speaker 1: million Palestinians in Gaza, So how much death is enough
Speaker 1: for the United States to decide? Oh, maybe this isn't
Speaker 1: working right after sixty days and twenty thousand depths and
Speaker 1: majority of them children. What how People tell me all
Speaker 1: the time foreign policy has no effect on how elections
Speaker 1: are decided in this country. Do you think that that
Speaker 1: will still hold for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: If we look at the polls and we look at
Speaker 2: the Poles consistently, especially in the past two nine months,
Speaker 2: as his war rage is on, it's affecting his popularity. Danielle.
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, everyone wants to blame Muslims
Speaker 2: and Arabs. It's not just muslim in Arabs. Young people
Speaker 2: see the war and they see a type of institutional
Speaker 2: corruption and failure that we witness when we were their
Speaker 2: age when it came to the war in Terror, that
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if the majority is against it, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if we see full scale brutality, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: There's certain institutional powers that be that say, eh, we
Speaker 2: don't care. We don't care that the majority wants to
Speaker 2: cease fire, we don't care that we're seeing Palestinian kids
Speaker 2: being killed. Doesn't matter. This is what we're going to do,
Speaker 2: and anyone who goes against it, we're going to try
Speaker 2: to crush you. Right. That's what's happening in academic spaces,
Speaker 2: that's what's happening in media spaces. And so we witnessed
Speaker 2: this in the Warrant tear twenty plus years ago, right
Speaker 2: where we march in the streets. But then the powers
Speaker 2: that be said, no, we're gonna just go along with
Speaker 2: this illegal, in my opinion, war, and we're gonna pedalize
Speaker 2: and we're gonna do what we're gonna do. And you
Speaker 2: saw a type of radicalization but also a motivation of
Speaker 2: a young generation that really came out to it. Enough's enough.
Speaker 2: So I think you're going to see that mobilization. But
Speaker 2: my fear, Danielle, is a depressed vote because you're already
Speaker 2: seeing people say, what's the point. I know Trump is bad,
Speaker 2: but you're asking me to forfeit my moral integrity and
Speaker 2: vouch for what they say is a genocide and war crimes.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to do that. And that's what
Speaker 2: I'm trying to bang my head against the wall. It's
Speaker 2: very tough for me also within our communities to convince
Speaker 2: people who are sane, rational actors, Danielle right, because people
Speaker 2: think they're all irrational and selfish. They know Trump is terrible,
Speaker 2: but they're like, I can't support the system because the
Speaker 2: system refuses to change. So you know what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2: I'm tapping out. You all figure this out yourselves. And
Speaker 2: my fear, Danielle is a REDUCX of twenty sixteen, where
Speaker 2: just enough people stay at home, and you get these
Speaker 2: third party candidates RFK, Cornell West, Jill Stein, and you
Speaker 2: get disinformation. And it's gonna come down to six states anyway,
Speaker 2: and Biden wins the popular vote, but just like Clinton,
Speaker 2: he loses the three or four states by seventy thousand votes.
Speaker 2: And then what do we get? Dictatorship fascism. So for
Speaker 2: people who are like, eh, forget these darkies, these Moslims,
Speaker 2: these Arabs, f them. You don't like it, leave it.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much what they're telling us. Right Well, I'm like,
Speaker 2: look at young people, look at progressive look at black people,
Speaker 2: just us. You got one year to win them over.
Speaker 2: You got one year.
Speaker 1: Last question to you, With one year to win them over,
Speaker 1: what does the administration do as we're ticking down.
Speaker 2: I think Biden needs to run like his back against
Speaker 2: the wall. I think there needs to be a full
Speaker 2: court press to build a multicultural coalition. It's not enough
Speaker 2: just to tout the economic numbers. As of this recording,
Speaker 2: the economic argument is not working. You need to go
Speaker 2: all in with culture. Like we said, fight for democracy.
Speaker 2: That's a kitchen table issue. We saw it in the midterms.
Speaker 2: Abortion rights kitchen table issue. Black people, people of color, Muslims,
Speaker 2: queer folks, women. You have to fight the cultural fight,
Speaker 2: and you have to fight it with passion, and you
Speaker 2: have to warn people what's at stake. I would lead
Speaker 2: with women's rights. I would lead with abortion. I would
Speaker 2: lead with attack on social security. I would lead on
Speaker 2: attack on democracy. I would lead with book bands, and
Speaker 2: I would remember that your base is a multicultural coalition.
Speaker 2: Remind folks this is what's at stake, and then fight
Speaker 2: for people of color. Right. Uh, That's what I would do.
Speaker 2: But then again, I'm crazy, and so maybe just maybe
Speaker 2: they'll go repeat their economic numbers and that that has
Speaker 2: not worked so far, Danielle, even though it's you know,
Speaker 2: win for them, it's a win for Biden, but it's not.
Speaker 2: It's just not registering with people. Fight fire with fire,
Speaker 2: show that type of conviction that you had during the midterms.
Speaker 2: Call out Donald Trump as a dictator, use the word fascism,
Speaker 2: go against white nationalism, fight for people of color, fight
Speaker 2: for women, fight for black people, and then you have
Speaker 2: a chance.
Speaker 1: Amen to my friend watch a hot Ali my co
Speaker 1: host son democracy ish folks, if you were not listening
Speaker 1: to that, Every Thursday, we drop new episodes. You must, must,
Speaker 1: must check it out. Appreciate you, and if you have
Speaker 1: not read WASH's book, go back to where you came from.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful holiday gift, so give it. Give it
Speaker 1: as a gift. Thank you, my friend, Thank.
Speaker 2: You, Happy holidays everyone.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on wokef
Speaker 1: As always, power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.