WEBVTT - The Opposite of Hope is Apathy 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.880 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OOKF Daily with Meet 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.480 your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, folks, 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.480 As we get ready to close out this year, and again, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.720 like I've been saying, I truly believe that the new year, 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.040 your new year, your personal new year, should begin in 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.520 the spring when nature begins it's new blossoming, and that 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:42.440 winter should be a time of reflection of you know, 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:47.519 a looking back, a retrospective, you know, balancing out the 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:53.440 places where there is gratitude, the places for growth, and 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.600 you know what good you want to continue carrying with 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.960 you As the calendar year shifts, there's just so much pressure, 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.959 I believe, in getting everything done and racing to the 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.800 finish line, to only realize that nothing actually truly changes 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:15.520 except for our perspective, which is pressured by society and 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:20.400 Hallmark and sales and all of these things, and sending 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.479 your last email. Also that you can take, what if 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.680 you're lucky, a week off. So I just really want 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:32.080 us to be thoughtful about how we each are deciding 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.080 to close out the year. And so as the shows 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.800 come up over the holiday break, we have pre recorded 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.080 a bunch of shows that I am excited for you 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.960 to listen to and people to either close out the 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.400 year with or get to know for the very first time. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:58.160 But coming up in conversation first is my friend and 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:03.480 co host of my other show, Democracy Ish, which comes 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.800 up live on Thursdays our new episode drops. So if 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.040 you have not been listening to Democracy Ish with my 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.880 friend wajahat Ali, author and Daily Beasts columnist, you are 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:19.080 certainly missing out on a fabulous thirty minutes each week 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.200 where we bring on some of our favorite guests, or 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.400 just get into conversations with the two of us and 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.080 give our thoughts on the headlines as we volley back 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:35.519 and forth. Waj has a fantastic book entitled Go Back 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:42.760 to Your Country, and he just provides such sharp, keen, funny, 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.240 sarcastic commentary that I adore. So I hope that you 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:56.000 enjoy this coming episode with my friend Waja hot Ali. Folks, 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.960 I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:05.040 my co host of Democracy Ish and author of the 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.920 book Go Back to Where You Came From and columnist 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.519 at the Daily Beast, Waja hot Ali and just all 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:17.040 the things chie maker you know, father soul searcher, all 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:22.280 of the things. You know, we are closing out the 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:28.280 year a really I don't even what I here's the 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.640 first question, what would you even call this past year? 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:32.400 Like? 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.840 How were you closing out twenty twenty three? Feeling about 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:41.720 the state of our politics, the state of our world? 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:49.200 Exhausted but marginally optimistic because there's no other option for 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.000 us as we enter perhaps one of the most pivotal 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.080 years where I know it sounds like a cliche, folks, 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.960 but you know, we try to fight for demococracy and 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:07.280 we're up against an election in which the man who's 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.640 going to be the leader of the Republican Party has 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:11.680 openly said that he'll only be a dictator for the 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:17.000 first day and he's admitted it, and we're just treating 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.880 it as a normal And while that's happening overseas, we're 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.479 seeing a bloody war which is rippling out. We're seeing 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.919 a crackdown on freedom of speech, We're seeing a crackdown 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.400 on all DII initiatives, basically people who look like you 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.640 and me, Daniel, And there's climate change and Republicans have 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.160 gone batchett and trying to take away women's rights, and 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.440 dark money is flooding the zone, and we're seeing a 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.800 splintering and fracturing of movements, and people are depressed, and 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.120 there's third party candidates stepping up. But other than that, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.360 things are going really well on the holiday season. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.839 You know, you started off by saying marginally happy. So 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.920 I have to ask, after you just listed out all 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.479 of the things that we know to be true and 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.800 talk about on this show, what is making you marginally 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:06.800 like hopeful? 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.719 The two things the opposite of hope is apathy, and 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.640 I don't think we can afford to be apathetic with 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.400 all the stakes that I tried my best to outline 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.320 in the first minute. You know, the fact I have 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.640 kids kids remind you that there's still innocence and decency 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.400 and goodness. And to see the fact that my kids 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.720 in particular and their friends like they get it. They 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.159 seem to be very empathetic and kind. And then you 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:32.760 also have to realize that I think there has to 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.920 be more than a few of us, Danielle, who see 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.520 what's at stake, and maybe just maybe within a year. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:40.919 You know, a year is a long time. Americans have 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.680 intention events, so we can organize, and I do feel 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.240 that maybe, just maybe, if we're lucky and we organize 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.760 and we do the work. Maybe it's enough. Maybe it's 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.599 enough to stave off what's happening. And I always tell people, 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.120 apathy is what I fear most right, because apathy is 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.920 what will depress the vote. It'll keep people at home, 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.040 it will make people more cynical, it will make people 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.680 more selfish, It'll make people say, you know what, if 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.000 at all, I have to take care of myself and 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.120 my wife and my kids, and that's it, and I'll 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.680 write it out twenty thirty forty years. And that's how 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.599 those forces that have literally told you the plot, like 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.760 they're these terrible but very helpful bond villains who tell 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.839 you in the first ten minutes like the plot they're 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.640 telling you, especially with the attacks that are happening on 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.599 higher education right now, with what's happening with Claude Deine Gay, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.040 like all the worst people are telling you what they 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.120 want to do. So if you, like, if you don't 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.160 step up and fight Danielle, it's over. So the fact 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.240 that enough people care, that's what's giving me some marginal 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:48.359 dose of optimism. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.280 So let's start, you know, with what we believe as 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.039 of this recording, and as of right now is the 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:01.120 twenty twenty four matchup, which is a redux of twenty 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.640 twenty with Biden and Donald Trump. Now, you and I, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:10.800 who talk about this each and every week on Democracy Ish, 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.760 we say and lay out the stakes and lay out 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.120 the differences, and we say there is no difference. Right, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.920 You're either going to vote for this sustainability of our 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:31.160 democracy or you're going to allow authoritarianism to seed ground, 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.960 right to grow roots and blossom in the United States. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.480 This is the either or proposition. And I know that 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.760 you and I often get chastised in social media about 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.840 saying this guy is falling, this guy is falling. It's 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:50.920 not that bad being called hyperbolic, saying that we are overreacting, 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.160 And so I just want you when people come to 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.480 you and say those things, you're overreacting, it's not going 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:03.280 to be that bad a Trump presidency. So what makes 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.360 this time around any different? 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.400 Yeah, I say, look at the track record, and when 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.640 people show you who they are, believe them. Right to 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.320 pare for is maya Angelou. If Donald Trump told you 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.760 he's not leaving and he didn't leave, and there was 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.480 a maga cult that tried to take over a free 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.760 and for election and thankfully failed, and the US capital 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:31.200 was burning. And there is a right wing movement which 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.880 shares all the radicalized conspiracy theories that were once part 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.800 of the fringe but are now mainstreamed, and it has 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:42.200 resulted in violence against black people, against gay people, against Jews, 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:46.600 against Muslims, against Latinos. And if teachers and doctors are 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.840 telling law enforcement that we're under threat, and law enforcement 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.040 itself is under threat, and the number one domestic terror 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.960 threat several years running is white supremacist terrorism. And these 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.600 people are now dining with Donald Trump, who by the way, 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.240 told the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.680 and ate dinner with Nick Fuentes, and is now openly 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.320 telling you that he will be a dictator, but only 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.480 for the first day, and is openly enlisting people like 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.280 Stephen Miller and Cash Patel who are openly telling you 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.000 on live television that they will attack Donald Trump's enemies 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:19.920 on day one, that they will purge the system, that 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.480 they will go after media. And we have seen this happen. Danielle. Maybe, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.640 just maybe me and Danielle aren't crazy. Maybe just maybe 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.760 listen to us, maybe just maybe forget us who are 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.640 we We're nobody right, we're brown and black, Cassandra, forget us. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:40.600 Maybe listen to the criminals who are literally giving you 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.680 the plot, literally telling you the day and the time 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.680 and the date that they plan on robbing the bank, 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.319 and giving you the blueprint, and telling you who's driving 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.520 the escape vehicle, and telling you what gus they're gonna use. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.720 Maybe just listen to them, Danielle. And if you think 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.360 I'm crazy, take your head out of the sand and 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.920 pay attention to what's happening in this country over the 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.760 past three years. And what we've always said is that 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:10.720 January sixth was a test run. It was a rough draft, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.600 and they're going to try their best to perfect it. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.199 And then the last thing I'll say is, if you 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.440 don't believe me, look at what Republicans are doing in 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.040 every state where they have power, and how they're trying 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.439 to attack women and people of color. You said, oh, 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.760 they'll never get rid of abortion, until they did, and 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.360 now they're telling you they're coming after marriage equality and contraceptives. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.880 You said, oh, watch, they'll never do that. I thought 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.000 I was told my whole life, Danielle, Republicans will never 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.520 take out abortion and here we are in twenty. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.400 Twenty three, right, and I think that we have been 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:50.240 able to rest our laurels in precedent, thinking that, you know, 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.760 which is the question that was asked at every Senate 0:10:52.840 --> 0:11:01.520 Judiciary hearing, right with Gorsic with a co COVID barn 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.760 which is what I call her. With with Kavanaugh, it 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:10.120 was will you uphold precedent right? Meaning Roe v. Wade. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.240 I would go so far as to say Brown versus 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.520 the Board of Education. I'd go so far as back 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.960 as to say plus E V. Birth, you know, like 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.320 plus e V. Burke is in, and. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.719 They established, it's established. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.160 It's established, it's established. And so with their fingers crossed 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.480 behind their backs and their bond villain smiles on, they 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:34.079 nodded and smiled as they then, you know, three years later, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.559 would take away the rights of bodily autonomy for women 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.400 and people with uteruses in this country. And so when 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.120 they say they're going to go after marriage equality next, 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.440 when they say that, you know, maybe we don't really 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:51.520 like this whole thing called integration, right, and they may 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:58.280 go after that after that, Virginia, loving v Virginia, they said, oh, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.360 affirmative action, that was only to be about colleges, and 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:06.200 now they're suing venture capital firms that give money to 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.680 marginalized black and brown businesses. So they're going after that 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:16.480 because cruelty deprivation is the point, right. 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.760 Because the education, then you also education. They're trying to 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:20.480 gut education. 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.800 So it's like every single way that we have watched 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:32.439 black people, brown people, LGBTQ people, women make other advancements 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.720 in our country, they are going after it because the 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:42.360 only way for white fragility, toxicity, male cyst fascists to 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:48.400 dominate is to subdue everybody else, which means undoing sixty 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.200 plus years of progress in this country. I ask WAJ, 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.360 you know we say this until we're blue in the face. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.560 They are doing it, as Steve Bennon said, village by village, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.320 city by city. We're watching them do it. And yet 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.560 I have people in my comments section that are saying, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.199 we need a new candidate. I'm not voting for Biden. 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.760 They're comfortably saying this in twenty twenty three. Do you 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:20.079 think they change their minds as the calendar year changes. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.200 It's the same in my communities as well. And you know, 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.280 you want to bash your head against the wall and 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.040 then when folks like you and me, who I think 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.600 have a good, I think, consistent track record of not 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.000 being DNC shills. We criticize Biden and we criticized Democrats, 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.920 and we try to be fair. If you don't believe me, 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.680 just listen to our show Democracy Ish nice plug. But 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:45.880 it's one of those situations where we say the perfect 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.800 is the enemy of democracy. Okay, no one I was 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.880 thinking about this yesterday, Danielle, like I was thinking about 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.880 twenty twenty. No one was excited about Biden. And I'll 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.760 give you an example in Virginia. Right, People forget that 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:02.000 it was first Buddhajic and Budhjet was running away with it, 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.800 and then Warren and then it was a Cliburn in 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.640 South Carolina who tipped the skills for Biden. Because people 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.560 of color, especially black people, have always been very pragmatic voters. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.200 They have always forfeited their own desires for the greater 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.920 good of democracy. And what black voters and people of 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.080 color in particular said, which white dude will other white 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.400 people vote for, Which white dude will beat Trump? That 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.160 was the calculus, right, So Cliburn goes for Biden. What 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.920 happens Biden now gets a wind from the south. Right now, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.920 we're in Virginia where I'm at, and I could tell you, Danielle, 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.280 like two days before the primaries, sixty five to seventy 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.720 percent of Virginia Democratic voters were undecided. You know where 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.800 we're deciding which white guy. Will white people vote for 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.400 Sanders or Biden? It seems like Biden has the wind 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.560 behind his back. We're going to vote for Biden. That's 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.400 how Biden became the candidate. That's why Biden won. The 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.760 number one reason why people voted for Biden was because 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.240 who will beat Trump? Okay, So now fast forward to 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.720 twenty twenty four. Are any of us excited about Biden? No, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:12.520 who cares. I'm excited about democracy. I'm terrified by fascism, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.480 and I know that if Donald Trump wins, or if 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.960 any Republican wins, it's going to be fascism one oh one. 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.120 So right now, Biden's the guy. Biden is alive, but 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.160 he's running. Okay. All the Democrats are learning behind Biden. 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.520 So for me, strategically, the horse that I'm betting on 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.000 to beat Trump is Biden. I don't have to love him. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.680 I think he's failed in his Mid East policy. I 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.720 think he's done a lot of good. I am worried 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.560 about his age. I'm worried about Donald Trump, who's more 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.720 unhealthy by the way than Biden. But guess what, he 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.840 is a person who at the very least is saying 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.760 I support democracy, I'm against fascism, I'm against the Muslim band. 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.080 You know what, Black people shouldn't be shot and killed. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.920 You know what, gay marriage should be allowed. You know what, 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.120 women should have the right to choose what they do 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.480 with their body. You know what, if Democrats are in 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.000 power and one of these old people in the Supreme 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.160 Court dies, that means instead of having another conservative, right 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.720 wing freakin fascist on the Supreme Court, there might be 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.800 a chance for another judge Jackson right. And so if 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:20.840 I could get five to four in the Supreme Court, 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.160 maybe we can undo dark money. Maybe we can protect 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.920 the environment, Maybe we can protect Roe. And that can 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:33.480 save a generational onslaught that the Republicans have done for 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.200 the past forty years to try to take over the 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:40.040 Super Court, which they did. We can perhaps not necessarily 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.720 undo it, but maybe we could stave it right. We 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.320 could stave it for enough time to give to give 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.400 us momentum. That's what I want people to think about, Danielle, 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.000 that's the big picture. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.840 Let me ask you this, right, because again I agree 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.880 the Biden administration and what they've been doing, particularly as 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.159 it pertains to the Middle East and the aiding and 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:14.760 a betting of Israel. Right now as they decimate, Gaza 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.080 has a lot of people gen Z in particular, people 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:24.000 of color, black and brown people, young people, queer people, angry, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.920 and we do not see them pivoting from this anytime soon. 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.119 The question that I keep asking is how much death 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:36.000 is enough right to And I want to remind folks 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.240 too when I say this, the United States waited until 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:45.720 six million Jewish people were killed murdered before they intervened 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.560 in World War Two? Right, there are two point two 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:55.359 million Palestinians in Gaza, So how much death is enough 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:00.359 for the United States to decide? Oh, maybe this isn't 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.639 working right after sixty days and twenty thousand depths and 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.919 majority of them children. What how People tell me all 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.480 the time foreign policy has no effect on how elections 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.560 are decided in this country. Do you think that that 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.360 will still hold for twenty twenty four. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.639 If we look at the polls and we look at 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.920 the Poles consistently, especially in the past two nine months, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:33.880 as his war rage is on, it's affecting his popularity. Danielle. 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.000 I mean, like you said, everyone wants to blame Muslims 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.520 and Arabs. It's not just muslim in Arabs. Young people 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.439 see the war and they see a type of institutional 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.240 corruption and failure that we witness when we were their 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.320 age when it came to the war in Terror, that 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.639 it doesn't matter if the majority is against it, it 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.119 doesn't matter if we see full scale brutality, it doesn't matter. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.399 There's certain institutional powers that be that say, eh, we 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.320 don't care. We don't care that the majority wants to 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.680 cease fire, we don't care that we're seeing Palestinian kids 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.879 being killed. Doesn't matter. This is what we're going to do, 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.880 and anyone who goes against it, we're going to try 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.359 to crush you. Right. That's what's happening in academic spaces, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.360 that's what's happening in media spaces. And so we witnessed 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.640 this in the Warrant tear twenty plus years ago, right 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.639 where we march in the streets. But then the powers 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.919 that be said, no, we're gonna just go along with 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.879 this illegal, in my opinion, war, and we're gonna pedalize 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.919 and we're gonna do what we're gonna do. And you 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.359 saw a type of radicalization but also a motivation of 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.320 a young generation that really came out to it. Enough's enough. 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:41.239 So I think you're going to see that mobilization. But 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.080 my fear, Danielle, is a depressed vote because you're already 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.399 seeing people say, what's the point. I know Trump is bad, 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.679 but you're asking me to forfeit my moral integrity and 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.119 vouch for what they say is a genocide and war crimes. 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:58.719 And I'm not going to do that. And that's what 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:00.760 I'm trying to bang my head against the wall. It's 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.080 very tough for me also within our communities to convince 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.399 people who are sane, rational actors, Danielle right, because people 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.080 think they're all irrational and selfish. They know Trump is terrible, 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:15.639 but they're like, I can't support the system because the 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.919 system refuses to change. So you know what I'm gonna do. 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.240 I'm tapping out. You all figure this out yourselves. And 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.200 my fear, Danielle is a REDUCX of twenty sixteen, where 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.760 just enough people stay at home, and you get these 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:32.879 third party candidates RFK, Cornell West, Jill Stein, and you 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.760 get disinformation. And it's gonna come down to six states anyway, 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.000 and Biden wins the popular vote, but just like Clinton, 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.720 he loses the three or four states by seventy thousand votes. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:48.000 And then what do we get? Dictatorship fascism. So for 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.520 people who are like, eh, forget these darkies, these Moslims, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.840 these Arabs, f them. You don't like it, leave it. 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.119 That's pretty much what they're telling us. Right Well, I'm like, 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.800 look at young people, look at progressive look at black people, 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.560 just us. You got one year to win them over. 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:03.320 You got one year. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.480 Last question to you, With one year to win them over, 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.160 what does the administration do as we're ticking down. 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:17.119 I think Biden needs to run like his back against 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.000 the wall. I think there needs to be a full 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.400 court press to build a multicultural coalition. It's not enough 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.120 just to tout the economic numbers. As of this recording, 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.600 the economic argument is not working. You need to go 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.159 all in with culture. Like we said, fight for democracy. 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:34.560 That's a kitchen table issue. We saw it in the midterms. 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:40.119 Abortion rights kitchen table issue. Black people, people of color, Muslims, 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.880 queer folks, women. You have to fight the cultural fight, 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:45.800 and you have to fight it with passion, and you 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.920 have to warn people what's at stake. I would lead 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.240 with women's rights. I would lead with abortion. I would 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.840 lead with attack on social security. I would lead on 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.919 attack on democracy. I would lead with book bands, and 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.960 I would remember that your base is a multicultural coalition. 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:04.480 Remind folks this is what's at stake, and then fight 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.719 for people of color. Right. Uh, That's what I would do. 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.160 But then again, I'm crazy, and so maybe just maybe 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:17.040 they'll go repeat their economic numbers and that that has 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.280 not worked so far, Danielle, even though it's you know, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.159 win for them, it's a win for Biden, but it's not. 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.159 It's just not registering with people. Fight fire with fire, 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.320 show that type of conviction that you had during the midterms. 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.760 Call out Donald Trump as a dictator, use the word fascism, 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.560 go against white nationalism, fight for people of color, fight 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:37.359 for women, fight for black people, and then you have 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:37.800 a chance. 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:43.800 Amen to my friend watch a hot Ali my co 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.560 host son democracy ish folks, if you were not listening 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.359 to that, Every Thursday, we drop new episodes. You must, must, 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.480 must check it out. Appreciate you, and if you have 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.560 not read WASH's book, go back to where you came from. 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.080 It's a wonderful holiday gift, so give it. Give it 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.080 as a gift. Thank you, my friend, Thank. 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:09.439 You, Happy holidays everyone. 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:13.760 That is it for me today. Dear friends on wokef 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:18.000 As always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.440 get woke and stay woke as fuck.