1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 3 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. 5 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that 6 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness 8 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: on wavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 9 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world, 10 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: one story at a time. Hi, this is Tony Mantor. 11 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not May Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. 12 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: This is our special event crafting justice, embracing autism and 13 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: mental health through legislation. Joining us today is Tim Murphy, 14 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: a former US Representative for Pennsylvania and a dedicated psychologist 15 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: who leveraged his expertise to champion transformative mental health legislation 16 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: during his two thousand and three to twenty seventeen tenure. 17 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: Fueled by a deep commitment to addressing the challenges faced 18 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: by those with serious mental illness. He authored the Helping 19 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: Families in Mental Health Crisis Act. This landmark legislation revolutionized 20 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: America's mental health system by expanding access to critical care, 21 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: improving coordination of federal resources, and prioritizing evidence based treatments 22 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: for conditions like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, offering hope and 23 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: support to countless families. It's a pleasure to have them 24 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: join us today. Thanks for coming on. 25 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: Oh sure, no, this is great. 26 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 3: This is something I work on nearly every day of 27 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 3: my life, working on these legislative issues. 28 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that's awesome. If you would tell 29 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: me a little bit about how being a doctor before 30 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: you were elected to the House of Representatives helped you 31 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: in creating some legislation. 32 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: Each one influenced the other. 33 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, being a psychologist running for state Senate, 34 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 3: running for Congress, and then being back and then taking 35 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: that knowledge in because I think when you're doing something 36 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: like this and people want to know, you know, a 37 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 3: lot of people think, well, I saw that cartoon. 38 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: If I'm just a bill on the hill, can't we 39 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: just pass something? It isn't that easy. 40 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 3: And I thought, as part of this, we might discuss 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 3: how complex is it and why is it so complex? 42 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: Yes, I definitely want that to be part of our conversation. 43 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: I think it's very important that people understand. As a legislator, 44 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: you have so many people that you represent, and of 45 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: course they all want changes. Of course they all think 46 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: that their changes are the most important. Then how you 47 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: decide on which ones you can put together to create 48 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: a bill that helps the masses. So let's expand on 49 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: that a bit. Some people, or most people do not 50 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: understand what you have to go through in order to 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: get a bill passed. What's the structure and what do 52 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: you have to do in order to do this. 53 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 3: Well, many people have this idea that it starts sort 54 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 3: of individually. Well, this is my good idea, I need 55 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: you to create a law or my good idea. 56 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: Can't you just do it? 57 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: That sounds simple, and certainly that's the way we would 58 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: explain it to people in grade school. Someone introduces it, 59 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 3: it passes, it goes to the Senate, it passes, come 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: back to President signs it. But it's a lot more 61 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: complex than that. And when it comes to even dealing 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 3: with such things and mental health, what one person sees 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: is a solution another person sees. 64 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: As the problem. 65 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: And so as you submit a bill for something like 66 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 3: involving what would be the rules with regarding impatient care? 67 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: Or when the judge says you need to have inpatient care? 68 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 3: What needs to be done? You have groups in favor 69 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 3: in groups of posts. Oh, you have to be working 70 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: with all these groups and try and find compromise and consensus. 71 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: Oftentimes there's two different things. 72 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: Can you expand upon the difference between the two. 73 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 3: You may not get consensus from all the parties because 74 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 3: someone dig their feet in and say I don't want 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 3: to do this. 76 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: But you have to get consensus among people in. 77 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 3: The House of Representatives and sent it on their state 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: or federal level. And that's what works at So I 79 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: know when I a few years ago worked on my 80 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: mental health reform legislation and build it started off for 81 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 3: the couple hundred pages long. 82 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: You may recall an old story called the Old Man 83 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: in the Sea. 84 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure do. 85 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 3: But a man who caught a fish, right, he'd been 86 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: trying to get this big fish all his life. He 87 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: finally catches the big fish, and he's exhausted from fighting 88 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 3: this fish, and he's growing it to shore. 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: But In the. 90 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 3: Meantime, a lot of other fish saw his big fish 91 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 3: in the line because it was too big to haul in. 92 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 3: By the time he got it to shore, all that 93 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 3: was left was the head in a book. Sometimes that's 94 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: where legislation starts. 95 00:04:59,600 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: Too. 96 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: Good ideas are added on in the amendment process, some 97 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: great ideas are taken off, and sometimes some not such 98 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: good things are added on and taken off. But that's 99 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: in order to get ten census. It can be a 100 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 3: long process. And when one does that over multiple years, 101 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 3: one may find that actually a decade or two later 102 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 3: look back and say, you know, what we did or 103 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 3: what someone did actually cause more harm in this system. 104 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: And that's actually what happened in the mental health reform 105 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: movement that began in the nineteen sixties. 106 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: Start off is a good idea, and since then we've 107 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: been dealing with a lot of the harm. 108 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: And followed of that legislation, Now, was it the Mental 109 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: Health Crisis Act that you passed? 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: Was the Helping Families and Mental Health Crisis Act? 111 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: Yes, What were some of the challenges that you faced 112 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: in getting that passed? 113 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 3: From the very first time I showed that bill to 114 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 3: my chairman, he said, you know, you're going to have 115 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 3: to compromise, and I said, well, of course, I understand 116 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: that process. But I've been working this long time, have 117 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 3: talked to all the interested parties, and I was really 118 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: surprised by his statement. Now, I wish you would have said, 119 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: you got some great stuff in here, let's. 120 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: See what we can do to get this done. 121 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 3: So the challenges were or on some of the content. 122 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 3: For example, I wanted to change the law with regard 123 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: to something called assisted outpatient treat This is where a 124 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 3: judge can say you need to get into treatment and 125 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 3: stay in a treatment. 126 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: It's an alternative to being hospitalized. 127 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 3: And I thought this is good because research has shown 128 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: in multiple states how it has actually improved the lives 129 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: of people with severe mental illness. Here I'm talking about 130 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: people with schizophrenia, severe psychosists, people who aren't really sure 131 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: who they are or where they are. 132 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: That condition of antisignols. 133 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: Moving forward to this, some people said, well, you should 134 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: never have coercive care, you should never force someone to care, 135 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: and I said, I get it, but sometimes a person 136 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: cannot control themselves, cannot help themselves, what we call gravely disabled. 137 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: When they're gravely disabled, then they can't make decisions for themselves, 138 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 3: and in some cases they may think about harming themselves 139 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: or harming someone else, and those are the two standards 140 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: that have been around for a number of decades. 141 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: But as soon as the person said. 142 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going to hurt myself anymore, I'm 143 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: not going to harm anybody anymore. 144 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: Then people can't get them into care. 145 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: And such persons may also then start with semitic and 146 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: then say I don't like that anymore, or I'm healthy, 147 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 3: I don't need anymore, and relapse right back into a 148 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 3: psychiatric crisis. So that was one of the battles we had, 149 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: and some people saying you shouldn't do that at all. 150 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: That's a real tough situation because most people with lived 151 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: experience understands that that is a very valuable tool that 152 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: can help a lot of people. Were there any other 153 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: obstacles you faced on this bill? 154 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: We had another battle with regard to fighting medicaid. Medicaid 155 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: has a number of rules they put in place back 156 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: when John F. Kennedy was President of the United States. 157 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: The very last bill he signed before his. 158 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 3: Assassination was to create the community mental health Care system 159 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 3: in the United States, the idea being we could move 160 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 3: from the inpatient hospital model putting people in there to 161 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: having community mental health centers makes a lot of sense 162 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: for many mental health or mental illness issues, anxiety, depression, 163 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: other crisis where people don't need to be in hospital. 164 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: What happened from that is Medicaid made a number of 165 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 3: changes then in the next administration and did the following 166 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: They said, if a hospital has more than sixteen beds, 167 00:07:58,520 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: we're not paying for it. 168 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: Medicaid won't pay for it. 169 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: And the idea with that is, at that time we 170 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: had we had about half a million psychiatric hospital beds 171 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 3: in this country for a population of one hundred and 172 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: twenty million. 173 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 2: Medicaid says, we're not paying for it. 174 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: And that was the way of forcing these hospitals to 175 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: close and putting people in community mental health centers. So 176 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: that occurred, and what happened was not only did those 177 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: hospitals close, these big psychiatric hospitals which were designed to 178 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: actually as an alternative to prisons and homeless and the 179 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 3: abuse people got back in the eighteen hundreds, Well, what 180 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: happened is those hospitals close, but the community mental health 181 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 3: system couldn't take care of the severely mentally ill, So 182 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: we ended up more homeless, more people where families had 183 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: to take care of them, a lot of severe problems, 184 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 3: more crime, more in jail. That was one problem we 185 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 3: tried to tackle, and I'm going to add it to 186 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: these ones too, but that would also require some changes 187 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 3: in Medicaid. Medicaid is a very bizarre rule that says 188 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: for a psychiatter hospitalization, we're not paying for any more 189 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: than two weeks in the hospital, And they have another 190 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 3: rule that says lifetime, we're not paying for more than 191 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty days in the hospital. Now, I 192 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: look at the O as a psychologist myself, and say, 193 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 3: that's just bizarre. 194 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: There's no scientific merit to it. 195 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: In fact, it's anti science because many times to get 196 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,479 Speaker 3: a person off of one medication and get them stabilized 197 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: on another. Getting off you need a couple weeks stabilizing 198 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 3: another maybe a couple of weeks. In some case you 199 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: may see results on a few days. A two week 200 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: limit means someone may have to be discharged with a 201 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 3: hospital and then you lose them, or maybe they'll go to. 202 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: A different hospital and they do this hospital hopping game. 203 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: Not only is that tough for the hospital to keep 204 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: up with it, the doctors to keep up with it. 205 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: But that makes it really difficult for the family to 206 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: navigate and get what their loved one needs for help. 207 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 3: That third thing, one hundred and twenty day limit. Can 208 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: you imagine if we did those limits on such things 209 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: as cancer, on anything. You don't do that, I'm sorry, 210 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 3: you have a terrible heart problem, Well we can only 211 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: keep you for two weeks, even though you have a 212 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 3: heart transplant and it's failing. But psychiatry, psychiatric hospitalizations have 213 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 3: this tremendous or anti science approach towards them. So here's 214 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: what happened when we said let's change those three things. 215 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: The number of beds overall hospitals stay two weeks at 216 00:09:58,840 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 2: a time, and lifetime. 217 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 3: The Congressional Budget Office scores bills, that scores the cost 218 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: of them, and they said, well, what will happen if 219 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 3: we lift those limits. Every state will put everybody in 220 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: the hospital, and that's what they'll do. And we think 221 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 3: it's going to cost sixty billion dollars over ten years. 222 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: And I said, where did you get the number from, Well, 223 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 3: we just assumed everybody would be in the hospital. 224 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: Well that's you just made that number up, that's not 225 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: going to happen. 226 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: So they came back and revised it and said, well, 227 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: we think it's going to be twelve billion over ten years, 228 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 3: so do the math, you know, one point some billion 229 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 3: per year. We said, okay, But the rule was in 230 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 3: Congress you could not pass a bill that whatever cost 231 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 3: unless you had an offset, and. 232 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: The offset had to be in the same field. 233 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: So I had to come up with something else in 234 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: the realm of medicaid to pay for this. Oh, do 235 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: we stop paying for something else? So, because the Congressional 236 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 3: Budget Office controls that, we couldn't pass that, so that 237 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 3: part got peeled off as well. That continues to be 238 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: a huge problem for many families. 239 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: It seems like I heard about something concerning medicaid and 240 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: the prison system. Did that comp at all medicaid? 241 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: It also says we're not paying if someone is in prison, 242 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: so states have to pick up the tab on that, 243 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 3: and quite frankly, states do not. States do not pay 244 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 3: for psychiatric care. About eighty percent of those with severe 245 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 3: mental illness not only do not get psychiatric care, they 246 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 3: are actually, I don't. 247 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 2: Use these words lightly. 248 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 3: They are abused and harmed in ways that we cannot 249 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 3: imagine it still occurs in the twenty first century. They're 250 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: put in solitary confinement for twenty some days. You know, 251 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: we use that punishment for the worst of the worst, 252 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: serial killers, murderers, and drug dealers. Then with schizophrenia, who 253 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 3: has run in with a guard, gets in a fight 254 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: with some prisoners, and that's punishment. They'll put them in 255 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: solitary confinement where they're in a small room twenty three 256 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 3: hours a day, and that's it. That causes much worsening. 257 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 3: Is an awful condition for them, and I wish we 258 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 3: could stop that, but no one's forcing states to treat 259 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: these people, and so the harm increases. 260 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: I think either you mentioned it or I heard it 261 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: that there's an issue now with marijuana and the states 262 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: because they believe that it creates more psychosis. 263 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: Yes, so states are saying, you know, if we legalize marijuana, 264 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: not just medical marijuana, but legalize recreational marijuana, won't this 265 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 3: be wonderful. We'll have all kinds of tax revenue and 266 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: this will be great. 267 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: And we can do all kinds of things. Now, I 268 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 2: was a state legislator. I know how this works. 269 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: They say, oh, we have all this money, now, how 270 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 3: would you like something for your district, Oh, jee, I 271 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: love it. What do you mean, Well, maybe you need 272 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: some new playgrounds, Maybe you need a street paid, maybe 273 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 3: need some water lines going into a rural area. How 274 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: would you like cable any of those things? Say gee, 275 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 3: what do we have to do to get that vote 276 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: for this bill? So it's used as money for political leverage, 277 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 3: It's uses money to help get votes. It is used 278 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 3: as money for things are useful too. But my point 279 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 3: is that's got nothing to do with marijuana. And here's 280 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 3: the thing. So states may say, look, we may make 281 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 3: fifty or one hundred million dollars a year on this, 282 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 3: but let's look at the cost of marijuana. 283 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: As we like to say, this saints you your. 284 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 3: Papa's woodstock marijuana where it was like four percent THHC. 285 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: This is seventy eighty ninety percent potent. 286 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 3: So when states legalize this, what happens is we know 287 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 3: that adolescents and young adults to use marijuana a regular 288 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 3: basis increase their chances of psychosis, and as a psychotic 289 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 3: crisis breakdown, they increase it by several percent each year. 290 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 2: It come pounds over time. 291 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: Well, now we have new researchs not only that because 292 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 3: that the brain is still developing up to twenty five. 293 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 3: So not only that group, but we recognize now people 294 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 3: over sixty also have this problem because perhaps they're using 295 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 3: marijuana more and more for a number of reasons. If 296 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 3: you think it's legalized and you have people saying, well, 297 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 3: it's a natural substance, must be okay, well always Cyani. 298 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 3: What happens is we have these cases of legalizing marijuana. 299 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 3: But here's what it does. A study done in Canada 300 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 3: after they legalize it, they found that the number of 301 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 3: auto accidents related to marijuana use increased by a few 302 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 3: hundred percent. Alcohol remained the same, but drug from marijuana increased. 303 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: So it wasn't only auto accidents and the police have 304 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 3: to respond to those, paramedics respond to those. But emergency 305 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 3: room stays increased by a massive amount, I think by 306 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: a coup hundred percent. You had stays, intensive care units, 307 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: hospital stays were long. Well who pays for that? Well, 308 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: we all paid for it through our insurance. 309 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: There is the. 310 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 3: Bills that come from communities for police, environment and paramedic 311 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: doing those things too, and the cost of families lost 312 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 3: income because someone was injured. 313 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: Whateverwhere else? Now I raise this question, well, if we're 314 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: doing all these things, who's. 315 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 3: Paying for it? And the answer is nobody. Well, except 316 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 3: it goes back to the tax payer. So on the 317 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 3: one hand, they say, look at all this tax revenue 318 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 3: and we can use it to have all these projects. 319 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: It's nothing compared to the cost of schizophrenia. 320 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: Wow, that's very interesting, a lot of great information there. 321 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: Did you have a study done or do you know 322 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: more about the cost of all this and how it 323 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: affects everyone. 324 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: The organization which I'm a board member for, called Schizophrenia 325 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 3: and Psychosis Action Alliance, we did a study a couple 326 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: of years ago and re repeating it now here is 327 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: what we believe the cost of schizophrenia. That's one percent 328 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: of the population that this is the cost if you 329 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 3: take direct medical care, psychetric care. 330 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: For the disease itself schizophrenia. 331 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: If you take the fact that seventy five percent of 332 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 3: people with schizophrenia it was one chronic illness, fifty percent 333 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 3: HEAVI least two, and thirty percent HEAVI least three. 334 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: This is everything from cancer, bone. 335 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: Disease, gum disease, these skin diseases, whatever else. 336 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: It is all those cost money. You look at lost 337 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: revenue because they're networking. 338 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 3: You look at families have to pick up the cost 339 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: of this because there's other medical bills that medicat or 340 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 3: insurance may not pay for it. You have the whole 341 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 3: justice system where about forty percent or fifty percent of 342 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: people in jail have a mental illness. By twenty thirty 343 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 3: percent have a severe mental illness. Of the homeless population, 344 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: about forty percent of those have severe mental illness. And 345 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 3: every time states say, oh, we're going to reduce the 346 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 3: homeless population, We'll give them shelter, we'll give them food 347 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 3: cards and things like that, they're always peeling off the 348 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 3: low hanging fruit. People just need little intervention get better. 349 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: But states say, oh, look we have these programs that 350 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: we dropped homelesses by thirty forty percent. Yeah, but you 351 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: didn't get to the problem. So homeless has cost money 352 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 3: and it's not addressed. You add these things together and 353 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: the cost per year we have made. The cost last 354 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: year in the United States for schizophrenia alone was between 355 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: three hundred and forty and three hundred and eighty billion dollars. Now, 356 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 3: you take all the revenue from all the states from marijuana, 357 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: and it's not even a fraction of that. So what 358 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: happens is you're in increase in the use of marijuana, 359 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: increase in the incidence of psychosis, and by the way, 360 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 3: it also increases incidents of problems in their children too. 361 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 3: So you have generation coming up. This look if you're 362 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: gonna legalize it, and some thirty eight or forty states 363 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: have already done that, dedicate the revenue to treat the 364 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: problem you're causing. You have a tax on cars and 365 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 3: your license that goes to pay for highways. You're going 366 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 3: to tax marijuana use it to treat mental health because 367 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: no state gives adequate funding to that. Nobody there's something 368 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 3: that spent a lot of money, but it's wasted, and 369 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 3: so this is a way of doing that. 370 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: Create the problems, pay for the problems. 371 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 3: We'll recognize it is a problem, including public health campaigns. 372 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: I don't see any commercials on television. 373 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: I don't see any billboards. 374 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: I don't see any things on subways or bus is 375 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: saying if you smoke marijuana, your children will have problems 376 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: like low birth weight, like a fetal alcohol syndrome, increase 377 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 3: risks for psychiatric problems, attend to disorder, psychos etc. 378 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: You're gonna have problems. Stay away from this stuff. 379 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 3: Instead, you have a massive amount of money spent by 380 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: lobbyists saying, oh, vote. 381 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: For this, we'll give you campaign donations. 382 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 3: I know this is true because I've been to some 383 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: campaign fundraisers for members. A huge number of people in 384 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 3: the room are lobby for legalizing marijuana. And even some 385 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: of them say, yeah, I know, I don't like it. 386 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 3: It's not a good idea, but they pay well. It's 387 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 3: treacherous ground we're walking in with that. 388 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: One of the more important things that you just brought 389 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: up is how it affects the families. They see a 390 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: person having an issue, first thing they think about is 391 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: the treatment at the hospital, But I don't believe they 392 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: really think of how it affects the family. I think 393 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: the legislation you were speaking about, with more beds and 394 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: more abilities to help those will actually not only help 395 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: the people that need it, but it will also help 396 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: the families. 397 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 3: Deal with it as well. It'll definitely help the family 398 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 3: unit because families are left to do this on their own. 399 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: They fight to get their child care the oftentimes adolescents 400 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 3: who don't, they fight to get them the right medication, 401 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 3: and then if there's any kind of crime committed. Many 402 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: times it's a small crime, and what other people may 403 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: have a prison sentence of maybe weak or two. Because 404 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 3: they have other problems, they end up with longer prison 405 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: s days, and so the families all this criminal justice 406 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 3: expense too. And what they're also finding is as they're 407 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 3: in prison and they're in solitaire confinement and they're abused, 408 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 3: and they become more suicidal. These are birds the family 409 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 3: is trying to deal with. Can you imagine if I 410 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 3: don't know, at eighteen nineteen year old, in the throes 411 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: of his illucinations and delusions, went into a local store, 412 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: stole something, find themselves in jail and next thing you know, 413 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 3: they're in fights with gang members and so for their. 414 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 2: Protection and put in soldair confinement. 415 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: This destroys the hearts of many families and they spend 416 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 3: their life savings taking care of this and they still 417 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: can't get through. They are the most frustrated in terms 418 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: of how they handle this and the burden it places 419 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 3: on them. No wonder if so many families just keep 420 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: turning towards they just don't know what else to do. 421 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: It's awful. 422 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems to be one of the most common 423 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: things that I hear in talking with people that come 424 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: on to my podcast, it's the big unknown. They just 425 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: don't know how to handle it when it first happens. 426 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: They're overwhelmed and they just don't know what to do. 427 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: Then because of the different laws, aot, etc. They don't 428 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: have the money, the institutions don't get paid, so they 429 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: actually throw them back out on the street. It's a 430 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: big cycle of the unknown, and it keeps circling around, 431 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: and it seems like they just don't know how to 432 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: help these people, and then the cycle just continues. 433 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: That's right, and families don't have help, so families are 434 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 3: on their own to try and stop that cycle. I 435 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 3: consistently find families who ask when you first learned the diagnose, 436 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 3: who was there to explain what was going to happen 437 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: to you? And they generally say nobody. In the field 438 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 3: of psychiatri and psychology, a very small percent of us 439 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 3: are trained and regularly treat these insidious diseases. Even among children, 440 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 3: we have a higher instance of children diagnosed with autism. 441 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 3: A lot of people don't really know how to diagnose 442 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 3: it and how to recommend properly for that schizophrenia manytimes, 443 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 3: people say this is too much of a problem. I'm 444 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 3: going to find myself testifying in court. I don't want 445 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: to deal with these folks. And Medicaid pay so little anyway, 446 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: so all across society people are pushed away and pushed 447 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 3: it back on family, and it's a heartbreak of for families. 448 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: I have known many a family who has actually been told, 449 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 3: if you want your child to get care, have them 450 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: commit a small crime, so we'll put them in jail 451 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: and make sure they get care. And then they say, wait, 452 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: commit a crime and then in jail, and who knows 453 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 3: what happens. Then, well, at least we can force them 454 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 3: to take medication. That's how sick our system. 455 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 2: Is right now. 456 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: Yes, I've heard that many times. And what most people 457 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: don't realize is that once their child is put into 458 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: the system, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to turn 459 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: out the way they thought it would. 460 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: Exactly. 461 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 3: Families find once they're in the legal system they've lost 462 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 3: control because what also happens is they want to get information, 463 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 3: and with hippo laws and competent jaility laws, they talked 464 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 3: to doctors, they try and talk to prol offic says no, 465 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 3: your son didn't give us permissions. 466 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: We can't tell you anything. 467 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 3: And families say, well, let me tell about medications around Nope, 468 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 3: we can't talk. 469 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 2: Let me give you his history and background to you. 470 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 3: No, no, we're not talking to you, which is tragic 471 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 3: because someone, for example, a new drug being used more 472 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 3: Waschzophrenia's closepine. 473 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: The doctors don't know about close pine. 474 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 3: We're working hard to get the FDA to change the 475 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 3: rules on that to make it more accessible. People will 476 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 3: use older antipsychotic drugs which don't work very well. 477 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: And just getting information as a problem. 478 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: So again it lands on the parents who in all 479 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 3: these things, hearts are breaking where they're trying to make 480 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: things happen, and it's the law that stands in the way. 481 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: The legislators do not understand talk about wanting to have 482 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 3: them walk a mile on their shoes, spend an hour 483 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: in their shoes, and understand all these aspects. 484 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 2: Instead they push it aside. 485 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 3: Because as the words from a book by Ron Powers, 486 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 3: the title of the book is nobody cares about crazy people. 487 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: It's actually a quote from someone who is campaigning for 488 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: accounting office. So nobody cares about creating people we don't 489 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: have to pay attention. 490 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: What's your opinion on how we get these organizations to 491 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: step up? The more people I speak with, it seems 492 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: like the bigger the organization, the less help that they 493 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: get from them. 494 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 3: Well, I think some organizations are so big they become 495 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: very diffuse and are no longer focused. 496 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 2: National lines from mantal illness. 497 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: Great concept, great idea, but as soon as you're saying 498 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: mental illness, it expands widely and then you have all 499 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: sorts of groups that want their piece to pie no 500 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: longer is effective. The Psychiatric Association, when I went before 501 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 3: them to say, will you endorse my legislation, they couldn't 502 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: get themselves to do it until the very end last 503 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 3: couple of weeks because they said, we have so many 504 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: divisions they can't agree on what needs to be done. 505 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 3: And I said, how about only have the divisions vote 506 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 3: who actually treat psychosis. American Psychological Association. I stood before 507 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 3: an audience and said, how many of you are in 508 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 3: favor of this bill or how many against this bill? 509 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 2: A bunch of hands went up and asked how many 510 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 2: of you read the bill? 511 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 3: No hands, how many of you have actually focused on 512 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 3: dealing with schizophrenia, almost no hands with them. And I said, well, 513 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 3: if you deal with schizophrenia and you've read the bill, 514 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 3: you'll before the bill. 515 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: But what we do is be we have these judgments 516 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: on ignorant. 517 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 3: Now when it comes to autism and schizophrenia, for example, 518 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 3: autism and spectrum has become very wide. 519 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 2: This spectrum. There's even TV shows. I'll have someone in 520 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 2: a star character role where they want to look like 521 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 2: they're in the spectrum. 522 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 3: They they're flat emotions, they don't interact well socially, but 523 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 3: they can be very bright. That's a stereotype of autism 524 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 3: because it's entertaining, right, want it all to be like 525 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: rain Man as Dustin Hoffen, wasn't that movie and it's 526 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: not that way. Many people with autism, which are severely 527 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 3: severely disabled, can't communicate, maybe harm themselves along. There's also 528 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 3: some people there who we know that about thirty to 529 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 3: fifty percent of those with autism will later on have 530 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 3: a diagnosis schizophrenia. I think they're about three to six 531 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: times higher risk for schizophrenia. Now, those with schizophrenia, about 532 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 3: thirty to fifty percent had a history of autism. Now 533 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 3: what does that mean because that mean, was it really autism? 534 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 3: Was it early signs of schizophrenia in misdiagnosed Is there 535 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 3: are genetic factors, clear genetic links on a similar path 536 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 3: for many people with autism and many people with schizophrenia. 537 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: And I believe a lot can be done if these 538 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 3: two groups unite their efforts and say, let's find our 539 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 3: common ground and push together. 540 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: But as soon as the group says, yeah, but what 541 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: about me and what about me? And what about me? 542 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 3: It says we're not talking about that now. And unless 543 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 3: people focus, you can't get things done. When they do focus, 544 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 3: and this is important. You have to understand we may 545 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 3: not be able to take care of everything right now, 546 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 3: but we do focus, we can get it done. 547 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: But if you want us to be all things all people, 548 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: nothing gets done. 549 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 3: They say, a giraffe is a bird designed by a committee, 550 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 3: And that's what it comes down to. 551 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: Everybody wants a different thing in there, and it doesn't 552 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 2: end up what you want in the first place. 553 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to do baby steps. Help the first person, 554 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: then help the next one. By the time we get 555 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: to the last one, we've helped them all. Yes, I've 556 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: talked with so many people that have tried to do 557 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: so many different things. They've talked with their organizations and 558 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: they're quite frankly frustrated because nothing's getting done. So what's 559 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: your opinion, legislative wise, that we can take and do 560 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: something to get all these people together and ultimately the 561 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: people that need the help actually get it well. 562 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: One is fine enlists the common grown issues on the 563 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 3: federal level, they need to be done. I believe the 564 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 3: als have to do with the Medicaid payment system. You 565 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 3: have to educate every Senator and every member of Congress. 566 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 3: You need to meet with them on their office, write 567 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 3: them letters, send them emails. And the reason I say 568 00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: that is they never read the letter. 569 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: You don't fight. 570 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 3: People say, well, they should just do it. No, they 571 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 3: don't understand. And I tell folks, you know you're getting 572 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 3: through to your congressman. When he's walking down the street 573 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: in the parade, he says, Tony, how you doing? I 574 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 3: remember we talked, that's what you want. We did some 575 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: polling on this and found among couple groups suburban women 576 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 3: and families who have someone with mental illness, we found 577 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 3: when you ask the question of suching, how important it 578 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 3: is to have more hospital beds or more funding as 579 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 3: that are huge numbers. But when we ask the question 580 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,239 Speaker 3: to say, if you knew a candidate place reform of 581 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 3: mental health high in their platform, what does that do 582 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 3: to increase your. 583 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 2: Likeliness likelihood of voting for them? 584 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 3: It was eighty eight to ninety percent among suburban women 585 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: and close to ninety five percent among families who have 586 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 3: someone with schizophrenia in the family. 587 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, this has all been just tremendous information. So in closing, 588 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: what would you like to tell the listeners that you 589 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: think is just so important that they need to hear 590 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: to better understand what the legislators are trying to do 591 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: and to better understan in what they need to do 592 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: to work with these people that can help them. 593 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 3: Well, one is look at some organizations I think can 594 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 3: be helpful for you with somewhat severe mental illness. I 595 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: mentioned NOMI before, a great organization, but it's become so 596 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 3: wide and God bless them, they're great, but sometimes they're 597 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 3: so big they can't be effective with focusing on that. 598 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 2: So look at some other organizations that can be effective. 599 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 3: I'm a member of Schizophrenia and Psychosis Action Alliance. We 600 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 3: work on schizophrenia and psychosis. That's what we focus on 601 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 3: and a lot of families are being part of that 602 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 3: now too as we do this. So look at some 603 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 3: of this laser focus on your issues because, let's face it, 604 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 3: as you mentioned before, families are struggling. They don't have 605 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 3: time to do all this, but their united voice means 606 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 3: everybody does. 607 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 2: A little bit and helps immensely. 608 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 3: If an organization says we have these multi thousand letters 609 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 3: from people who sign a petition. 610 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: So be part of an organization is like that. Two, 611 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 2: don't be silent. 612 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 3: It doesn't take a long time to write an email 613 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 3: through your state and federal legislators and county or parish legislators. 614 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: It doesn't take a long time just to tell a story. 615 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: Please do it. But then they're going to say, what 616 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 2: do you want me to do? 617 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 3: Say, we need more hospital beds, we need more treatment, 618 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,719 Speaker 3: we need AOT, we need you to have treatment in jails. 619 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 3: We need you to identify people early in life when 620 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: they're in school, we need you to follow up, and 621 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: we need you to hold people accountable for this. All 622 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: of those things are important. And hit those points over 623 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 3: and over again, eventually something will happen. And I don't 624 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: want to see this too. A lot of this happened 625 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 3: in the nineteen sixties. There was something in California called 626 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 3: the Letterman Heater a short Act LPs ACT, and that 627 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 3: was an act that says, let's start closing our psychiatric 628 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 3: hospitals and do community based care. A lot of people say, well, 629 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 3: that's what's caused. The problem is a present baku. Excuse 630 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 3: me as Governor Bagan's fault. But actually the disability rights 631 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 3: community said we shouldn't put them in these institutions. 632 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: The ACLU said we shouldn't put people. 633 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 3: In institutions without really grounds, and so they came with 634 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 3: this idea says, well, let's give someone seventy two hours 635 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 3: where they have to be evaluated or released. Well, not 636 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 3: a lot of research went into that, and quite frankly, 637 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 3: as a ridiculous thing, because if you use the standard 638 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 3: of the person that has to threaten someone, that's not 639 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 3: a good scientific standard, not a good medical standard. Well, 640 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 3: the way this bill passed it wasn't the House, Thissembly 641 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: and the Senate in California said that's a great idea, 642 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 3: that's passes and have the governor sign it. In the 643 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: final hours of the session. A year something called sign 644 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 3: a Die, which means any bills that don't pass die. 645 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 2: They couldn't get it done. 646 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: But the Speaker of the House talk members of the Senate, said, 647 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 3: can you find some way of getting this bill done? 648 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: Because I want to get it done. There was a 649 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 2: staffer and he admits it. The staffer said that bills. 650 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 3: In order to get voted on, they have a green 651 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: sheet on top of them and it's it's a legislative analysis, 652 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 3: says this bill's going to cost this march or not much. 653 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 2: It's green light, it's ready to go. 654 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: This bill did not have that green sheet, so he 655 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 3: turned to his another staff member says, does anybody have 656 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: some green paper? 657 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 2: And he typed on their effects simile that looked like this. 658 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 3: They called a bill analysis and said this bill won't 659 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 3: cost anything, we'll save Monday, let's pass it. Stuck it 660 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 3: on all the legislative packages for the members, and they 661 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 3: voted on it without reading it because they were lied to. 662 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: And he admits, probably I leegal bit of passed. That's 663 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: how that was done. 664 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 3: And we've been living with that terribly anti scientific approach, 665 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 3: anti medical care approach, anti psychiatric approach since then, still 666 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 3: staying with a seventy two hour hold or other things 667 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: like that. When people hear that, they say, I can't 668 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 3: believe it. Yeah, it was all shechinanigans and illegal action 669 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 3: that took place that put us in this place. And 670 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 3: know what, sixty seven years later, we're still suffering from it. 671 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 3: So united, be vocal, be involved, and don't give up. 672 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: Great advice. Well, this has been a great conversation, tremendous information. 673 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time to join us. 674 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: Today, you bet Tony, Thank you for being a strong 675 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 3: way of a catalyst for all these voices for mental illness. 676 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: Oh it's my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking time 677 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. 678 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed 679 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: bringing it to you. If you know someone who has 680 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: a story to share, tell them to contact us at 681 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: why notm dot world. One last thing, spread the word 682 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: about why Not me, our conversations, our inspiring guests, the show. 683 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: You are not alone in this world. 684 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 2: H