Speaker 1: Hey, this is Brian Alvarez and this is today's edition
Speaker 1: of the Wrestling Observer Daily podcast on the eight Side Network, live.
Speaker 2: From San Francisco. I'm a sports byline broadcasting network. You
Speaker 2: are listening to Wrestling Observer Live with your hosts Brian
Speaker 2: Alvarez and Mike Semper vv Right you ready, You're ready,
Speaker 2: Let's get it off.
Speaker 1: How's it going to everybody? Brian Alvarez here on or
Speaker 1: Wrestling Observer Live. We are here every day Monday through Friday,
Speaker 1: New Pacific three Eastern Sunday three Pacific sixth Eastern Saturday
Speaker 1: Mornings with Jim Valley, Tenday Pacific one Eastern Sunday's with
Speaker 1: andrews Arian. It is Wednesday here on the show, is
Speaker 1: it not? Is it Wednesday?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: The June twelfth aw Dynamite is tonight. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: that show. We got matches announced, seven segments announced for
Speaker 1: the show. They just added an interview with Swartz Trickling.
Speaker 1: We'll go over the lineup for that show. Last night,
Speaker 1: of course, was NXT the fallout from the pay per
Speaker 1: view the pl this past weekend. We'll give you the
Speaker 1: full NXT television report, not exactly the most newsworthy show.
Speaker 1: Although yes, Cody Rhodes was on the show and he
Speaker 1: didn't do much, but they did have a funny moment.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. But he was there. And obviously
Speaker 1: the idea is they want to beat tonight's aw Dynamite
Speaker 1: in both the ratings and eighteen to forty nine. They
Speaker 1: had a very little competition yesterday and Dynamites face and
Speaker 1: competition tonight, so they think this might be the week
Speaker 1: to be able to do it. We shall find out.
Speaker 1: We've also got an announcement from WWE and Noah is
Speaker 1: going to be made this weekend. We'll talk about that.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be teased. Ardie Evans, who recently resigned from TNA,
Speaker 1: is now working for ae W. So that was quick.
Speaker 1: We got the raw ratings from Monday night. We've got
Speaker 1: an update on the Rock who got injured while he
Speaker 1: was filming The Smashing Machine, a bio pic on Mark Kerr.
Speaker 1: We've got oh god Rick Flair and Vince Russo and
Speaker 1: Eric Bischoff and Jim Herd. Do you we have to talk
Speaker 1: about WCW today. I just talked about it for an hour.
Speaker 1: By the way, for the lapsed fan should be up
Speaker 1: very soon. If you want to listen to that I
Speaker 1: did watch episode two. If you got questions, text him
Speaker 1: four two five seven eight zero seven five sixty six
Speaker 1: A lot to get into today back in a moment
Speaker 1: Observer Live.
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Speaker 2: You were listening to Wrestling Observer Live with Brian Alvarez
Speaker 2: and Mike SIMPERVV on the Sports Byline Broadcasting Networks.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I did on my birthday?
Speaker 8: What's that?
Speaker 1: I spent an hour talking about World Championship Rustling with
Speaker 1: a LAPS fan, And I'm doing this show talking about
Speaker 1: w CW. What have I done to deserve this? Hey?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I got my royalty check yesterday Death of WW. I'm
Speaker 1: getting royalty checks twenty years later for this book. If
Speaker 1: you've not read it. If you've not read it, you
Speaker 1: can go to my Twitter at Brian Alvarez or just
Speaker 1: go to Amazon grab your copy of Death of WCW.
Speaker 1: You got kindle edition, the paperback you can you can
Speaker 1: buy like a five hundred dollars hardcover if you can
Speaker 1: find one, really, and the audio book, the audiobook which
Speaker 1: I narrate myself. And if you get an audible if
Speaker 1: you get an audible trial, you get two free books.
Speaker 1: You could choose Death of w CW and I still
Speaker 1: get paid.
Speaker 8: So so you're all for this, then.
Speaker 1: I kind of am? I I sort of am I mean,
Speaker 1: I found out I couldn't. I can't figure out this
Speaker 1: royalty statement. They it's all these numbers. Okay, well, but
Speaker 1: by my estimates, by my estimates I have, we have
Speaker 1: sold R. D Ee Reynolds and I either one hundred
Speaker 1: and one thousand, one hundred and twelve books or one
Speaker 1: hundred and six thousand, six hundred and fifty seven books.
Speaker 1: But I can't figure out which which one it is.
Speaker 1: But the point is it's over one hundred thousand copies sold,
Speaker 1: so I'm very proud of that. Not a lot of
Speaker 1: books sell one hundred thousand copies, and uh, my last
Speaker 1: one certainly did not. You know, you should you know
Speaker 1: you should never do is write a book about w
Speaker 1: W during the least popular period in the history of
Speaker 1: w WE. That turned out to be a bad idea.
Speaker 8: Kind of formulaic too.
Speaker 1: But I mean it did fine. It did fine. I
Speaker 1: think it did like eight thousand or something like that,
Speaker 1: which barely I looked it up, and that's not bad
Speaker 1: for like a normal book, you know, eight thousand copies.
Speaker 8: You also had the but my bar was high. Well.
Speaker 8: You also had the benefit of distribution as well too,
Speaker 8: and being able to get out there when people walk
Speaker 8: into what's left of the bookstores and actually see it
Speaker 8: in the sports section, maybe propped up or something like that.
Speaker 8: You know you did benefit from that, not only from
Speaker 8: your publisher, but from your past success with the death
Speaker 8: of WZW twice, not only in its original form but
Speaker 8: then the anniversary edition. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I talked for about an hour today. The lapsed fan
Speaker 1: should be up at any time.
Speaker 8: Did you apologize to Rick Flayer for apologizing?
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about these, these people.
Speaker 8: These these they're nuts.
Speaker 1: I'll say about the second episode, is this whose idea
Speaker 1: was it to rehab Eric Bischoff? Anybody? The show ended
Speaker 1: with Eric Bischoff standing there and wherever the hell he
Speaker 1: lives in Wyoming, looking out of the rivers and streams,
Speaker 1: a nice, nice layout there, as everybody talked about how
Speaker 1: amazing he had been in World Championship Roslyn. It's like,
Speaker 1: what listen, I'm as fair man as anybody, Okay. Eric
Speaker 1: Bischoff ninety four, ninety five ninety six. I mean that guy,
Speaker 1: Holy smokes, a guy did a hell of a job.
Speaker 8: He had some visions.
Speaker 1: But then, and as I mentioned on the show today,
Speaker 1: I'm one of the rare fools. Fools who went back
Speaker 1: and watched the entire Monday Night Wars twice. I watched
Speaker 1: it twice. I watched it once live, and then I
Speaker 1: went back and I watched the entire Monday Night Wars
Speaker 1: a second time. Yes, And what did I learn upon
Speaker 1: second viewing? I learned a lot of things. But one
Speaker 1: of the things that I that I learned that people
Speaker 1: don't talk about nearly enough is everybody always talks about Fingerpoker,
Speaker 1: Doom and Starcade and that bash of the Beach and
Speaker 1: this and that. But do you know when and as
Speaker 1: I rewatched it, as I rewatched it, when I first realized, WHOA,
Speaker 1: something's up? You know what? You know what it was? Yes?
Speaker 8: Yes, oh god, I have no idea. Something in nine,
Speaker 8: late ninety early what ninety.
Speaker 1: Seven, believe it or not, it was slightly earlier, late
Speaker 1: ninety six. As we rewatched all of these shows, ninety
Speaker 1: five was awesome, Yeah, ninety six was was awesome, pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: But when Eric joined the nWo, when when he became
Speaker 1: a television character, that was I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was that exact show where it was like a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks with a couple of weeks in but he joined.
Speaker 1: It was November ninety six. Someone says Eric joined the
Speaker 1: nWo and there was a nitro and it was the
Speaker 1: first one where I was like, okay, sums up here,
Speaker 1: like something didn't make sense or you know, I can't
Speaker 1: remember exactly what it was, but it really hit me
Speaker 1: watching it a second time. That was the beginning when
Speaker 1: he made himself a television character and his sartin went
Speaker 1: from booking the show and everything to God, I gotta
Speaker 1: do some stuff on TV. Now, I gotta do a promo.
Speaker 1: I got to be in this segment that was That
Speaker 1: was the first time one of the bolts on the
Speaker 1: wheel started a wobble. And then you know, by early
Speaker 1: ninety eight they were doing great, but it was very
Speaker 1: clear this things careening out of control. And then there
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 8: And look with Bischoff at the time of doing it,
Speaker 8: he was riding high. Everything was going great. As you said,
Speaker 8: we haven't even gotten to them, you know, reaping the
Speaker 8: benefits monetarily it let alone ratings wise, and all the
Speaker 8: prestige that came with that, and all the crossover that
Speaker 8: came with that, and ultimately at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: the tail just ended up wagging the dog because there
Speaker 8: were so many forces that so many puzzle pieces that
Speaker 8: got put into play, the power that Nation Hall had,
Speaker 8: the power that Hogan had just having such a large
Speaker 8: roster and not a lot of control, the fact that
Speaker 8: there was still a lot of old school is all
Speaker 8: this new school stuff was taking place. The guaranteed all
Speaker 8: of these things, and they all culminated into the death
Speaker 8: of WCW. And at the end of this thing, I'll
Speaker 8: be interested to see how this series culminates and if
Speaker 8: there's any actual answer given or somebody hung out to
Speaker 8: dry and made out to look worse than the next person.
Speaker 8: But I get a feeling that that's not going to happen, because,
Speaker 8: as you mentioned with Bischoff, we had him get completely
Speaker 8: slagged and we actually have him standing a little bit tall.
Speaker 8: And I think ultimately that's what we're going to see
Speaker 8: out of this, with people, you know, explaining themselves as
Speaker 8: to why they weren't the reason as to why somebody
Speaker 8: else was. And I think ultimately that's how this thing
Speaker 8: is going to end. And it's going to be one
Speaker 8: of those stories, much like the Montreal screw Job and
Speaker 8: a couple of other things that just will end up
Speaker 8: lasting for a lot longer than it probably should.
Speaker 1: But anyway, going back to the point of the show.
Speaker 1: Last night, it was all about man Eric Bischoff. The
Speaker 1: story was everything great that happened in WCW was Eric Bischoff,
Speaker 1: oh boy, And everything that went wrong was someone else's fault.
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm gonna have to hear the same
Speaker 1: thing next week with Vince Russo. Everything was everyone else's fault.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Now, okay, so we've got Eric Bischoff has played a
Speaker 8: big role. Do you think Brad Stiegel, I'm sure by
Speaker 8: the end of this thing is going to essentially have
Speaker 8: one of his own episodes. But from what they've shown,
Speaker 8: do you.
Speaker 1: Think I actually don't know who the last episode will be. Well,
Speaker 1: we got Bischoff this week, we got Russo next week.
Speaker 1: I figured we'd have Nash in the last week.
Speaker 8: Well, I was wondering about Kevin Nash's part into that.
Speaker 8: But I think ultimately AOL Jamie Kellner, because again, there
Speaker 8: are people and at the time, you know, hey, this
Speaker 8: thing could have rolled, but it was AOL that killed it.
Speaker 8: Time Warner pulled the plug. You see how he's talked
Speaker 8: about TNT in the Prestige and all of that stuff
Speaker 8: and not liking wrestling. I'm sure he's going to have
Speaker 8: probably more of a dedicated episode before this thing is done.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. There's only four episodes, so number four
Speaker 1: is the one I'm interested in. But anyway, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, everyone you know, I died because
Speaker 1: it sucked.
Speaker 8: And you know how you can read all about that
Speaker 8: in the depth of WCW available now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope I never have to talk about this
Speaker 1: again after.
Speaker 10: This will mack him on with more, everybody, Observer lie.
Speaker 2: You are listening to Wrestling Observer Live with Brian Alvarez
Speaker 2: and Mike semperviv on the Sports Byline Broadcasting Network.
Speaker 1: By the show Brian Alvarez here, Wrestling Observer Live, Mike
Speaker 1: sember vv also Wrestling Observer dot Com. Well on to
Speaker 1: other news here, because of course there is always other news.
Speaker 1: Announcement from WWE and Noah said to be made this
Speaker 1: weekend a quote major announcement and Noah's Grand Ship twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four show. What a name Noah's Grand Ship.
Speaker 8: Well they've been known for that over the years. Yes,
Speaker 8: Virgin Navigation on the Green Matt sort.
Speaker 1: Of thing, breaking a major announcement from Noah WWE will
Speaker 1: be made at our Yokama boot event on Sunday. A
Speaker 1: message from a certain wrestler will also be released. Do
Speaker 1: you think it'll be should Skate Knackamara? I think it'll
Speaker 1: be obvious that something's happening.
Speaker 8: Thanks, boss.
Speaker 1: Well, they're probably working together you for the scoops. They're
Speaker 1: trying to u w W is trying to make uh
Speaker 1: you know, they're trying to They're they're not announcement.
Speaker 8: If something's gonna happen, something's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: They're not Vince. They're working with Mary Gold, They're working
Speaker 1: with T and A. They're gonna be working with Noah. Now,
Speaker 1: the question is who's coming where.
Speaker 8: Should Skate Knackamara is gonna go over? That makes the
Speaker 8: most sense to me.
Speaker 1: Who are you gonna get from Noah Gabe Kid.
Speaker 8: Oh, come on, he's in New Japan.
Speaker 1: I nobody's working. Kato Kiomia coming up?
Speaker 8: I know, Well, look, that ain't gonna happen. There's too
Speaker 8: much politics there. Brother. You got to c CML and
Speaker 8: Triple A or on the same page. Right now, as
Speaker 8: far as working ae W shows, let's not push it.
Speaker 8: As far as the Kumbaya goes across wrestling, you know.
Speaker 8: And look, this does not have to be somebody going
Speaker 8: over to work in WWE propery either. It could be
Speaker 8: somebody just coming over to work in at.
Speaker 1: Oh, somebody will work in NXT guaranteed in WWE as
Speaker 1: because WWE has house shows there apps July twenty five
Speaker 1: through twenty seven.
Speaker 8: Yes they do, and they gotta get this is the
Speaker 8: first time they're going to be dealing with their new
Speaker 8: business partner over there, Bama, who has had a long
Speaker 8: relationship with Noah and involved in wrestling, So this is
Speaker 8: going to be a big deal. We know the Merrigold deal.
Speaker 8: We know about Eyo Sky going over to faced off
Speaker 8: against Haya Shishta. So look, maybe somebody shows up at
Speaker 8: that Battle Royal against Trick Williams. We see a name
Speaker 8: out there Rio he Oe. Well, I guess Noah. Never mind,
Speaker 8: he's a new japan guy too. I don't know, but
Speaker 8: we can see somebody from Noah certainly in the Battle Royal.
Speaker 8: But I think it's more about what Noah can get
Speaker 8: out of the deal and being able to get Eo
Speaker 8: and Chinska and you know, people like that onto the show.
Speaker 1: I got distracted here by uh people talking about this
Speaker 1: w CW thing again. Oh yeah, this actually is from
Speaker 1: the board and this guy here the FRO says Bishop
Speaker 1: and everyone made tons of mistakes, but that he has
Speaker 1: some uh you know, thunder was pushed on them by
Speaker 1: TBS led to additional expenses and booking burnout.
Speaker 8: That that hurt. Yeah, that was part of it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I seem to recall the same time
Speaker 1: w w F added SmackDown and it worked out just fine.
Speaker 8: It did, but they caused a lot of stress and
Speaker 8: it was also far but Brian far different operation too
Speaker 8: by the time he got to that point, I know.
Speaker 1: But my point is, my point is adding another show
Speaker 1: is not the end of the world if you are competent.
Speaker 8: That's true. But also with WCW, what you also have
Speaker 8: to admit is it was death by a thousand cuts.
Speaker 8: And everybody that took a stab over the time bled
Speaker 8: out and there was a lot of bad decisions that
Speaker 8: got made. It was a lot of self inflicted wounds
Speaker 8: that happened along the line. And that's why again at
Speaker 8: the end of the day, when it comes to this
Speaker 8: who killed WCW. Everybody, everybody had a hand in bringing
Speaker 8: that thing down from Turner executives and the AOL buyout
Speaker 8: in Time Warner on right down to the person that
Speaker 8: just didn't care and didn't show up for house shows
Speaker 8: and ended up killing that business. I mean, there was
Speaker 8: everything that they could have done to self sabotage. They
Speaker 8: absolutely did.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 1: He also says nobody came forward to dispute the quote
Speaker 1: creative accounting that Dick Cheetah mentions in the Nitro book
Speaker 1: and in the documentary Last Night Stuff getting dumped on
Speaker 1: WCW's books to make TBS and TNT look more profitable.
Speaker 1: Quotes seemed to back that up in the dock, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: All right, first off, First off, listen, I've never heard
Speaker 1: the story, not saying it's not true, but this seems
Speaker 1: like new information that Eric Mischoff has come up with.
Speaker 1: They you know, took some of our profits and shifted
Speaker 1: them to other divisions to make us look worse. That's
Speaker 1: that's his claim. Has anyone mentioned that early on when
Speaker 1: they needed to sign guys like Hulkogen, et cetera, that
Speaker 1: some of these contracts were actually you know, paid from
Speaker 1: the Turner side and not WCW. Yeah. Interesting, so maybe
Speaker 1: some of that money was just kind of paying that back.
Speaker 1: And you know the other thing is let me, let me,
Speaker 1: let me ask somebody every question. Okay, I'm asking a question.
Speaker 1: So WCW units last year lost sixty two million dollars. Okay.
Speaker 1: The excuse is, well, you know, some of those profits
Speaker 1: were shifted to other divisions that needed to be bolstered, right,
Speaker 1: that's the claim that. Okay, first off, when you're losing
Speaker 1: sixty two million, there ain't no profits. Oh wait, well whatever,
Speaker 1: Let's look at it this way. Let's say that in
Speaker 1: their peak year, by the way, let's say that they
Speaker 1: made one hundred and twenty five million dollars, which they did.
Speaker 1: I think it was ninety seven. So it was a
Speaker 1: profitable year in the history of any wrestling company, ever
Speaker 1: more so than w W had ever made a year
Speaker 1: hundred twenty five million dollars. Okay. So let's say if
Speaker 1: they continued on that trajectory, they continued doing well. They were,
Speaker 1: they were making one hundred and fifty million a year.
Speaker 1: Let's say in two thousand, if everything had gone great,
Speaker 1: they were making two hundred million dollars a year. Okay,
Speaker 1: So they're making two hundred million dollars a year, and
Speaker 1: Turner is doing creative accounting to take even one hundred
Speaker 1: million of that to shift it into other divisions that
Speaker 1: need to be bolstered. Let's imagine that happened. Okay, if
Speaker 1: you had a company that's making two hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: and it is allowing you to create creatively, take one
Speaker 1: hundred million of that to bolster up other divisions that
Speaker 1: are not doing as well. Why would you unloaded? Why
Speaker 1: would you do that? The reason it got unloaded was
Speaker 1: because it was losing money hand over fist. It was
Speaker 1: not making any money. It was making no money to
Speaker 1: go to other divisions. It was doing nothing but losing money.
Speaker 1: It was losing money on house shows, it was losing
Speaker 1: money on pay per views, it was losing money on television.
Speaker 1: It was losing money on everything because it sucked. So
Speaker 1: I don't care what crazy idea you've come up with
Speaker 1: about sad it's right there. You know what, if you'd
Speaker 1: been doing great, they could have taken the money and
Speaker 1: put it here and there and everything would have been fine.
Speaker 1: You would have been more valuable. But instead it collapsed.
Speaker 1: It was a gigantic money drain. On the You know
Speaker 1: what's funny, it's on the documentary. What did they talk
Speaker 1: about on the documentary. Oh, the people at Turner didn't
Speaker 1: want wrestling, right, and that what they said, the people
Speaker 1: they didn't want wrestling. Okay, well, guess what there was
Speaker 1: wrestling during that period where they said the executives didn't
Speaker 1: want it. It was on why because it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if they want it or not. It was making one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million dollars. Well, when you book
Speaker 1: like a moron and everything collapses and nobody buys tickets
Speaker 1: and nobody buys pay per views, and nobody goes to
Speaker 1: the show, and nobody buys merch and nobody wants to
Speaker 1: buy ads, and you're losing tens of millions of dollars. Well,
Speaker 1: now the executives hated it, it's easy to unload it.
Speaker 1: You helped them so anyway, the reason it died is
Speaker 1: because the people in charge of creative and such were
Speaker 1: incompetent and they produced a terrible product. Fans decided, I
Speaker 1: don't want to watch it anymore, I don't want to
Speaker 1: pay any money for it. I'm gonna go watch the
Speaker 1: other show because it's better. And they died, So come
Speaker 1: up with all of the excuses that you want. All
Speaker 1: I heard last night was excuses. But that's what happened.
Speaker 1: It was horrible, It sucked, it lost money. You can't
Speaker 1: do that as a business or you go out of business.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's it. They took the cash cow, they slid
Speaker 8: its throat, after milking it dry, they cooked it up
Speaker 8: and served it to the executives on a silver platter.
Speaker 8: There are and you cannot expect TV executives who got
Speaker 8: into the TV executive business to have any sort of
Speaker 8: tie to pro wrestling, even if they happened to be
Speaker 8: big pro wrestling fans. They tend to be fans of
Speaker 8: money and power and ratings and prestige and things like
Speaker 8: that more than anything. So Yeah, for years, since the
Speaker 8: start of having wrestling on the Turner Networks and the
Speaker 8: Turner Networks expanding out to go national, there were people
Speaker 8: there that always wanted to get rid of wrestling, that
Speaker 8: wanted to kill it. But as Brian mentioned, when it's
Speaker 8: making a ridiculous amount of money, when you've cut into
Speaker 8: USA and you have now established TNT that tried Sunday
Speaker 8: Night Football, TNT did Sunday Night Football they had movies,
Speaker 8: they had preshed these things on there at four o'clock
Speaker 8: in the afternoon. It was old movie time like it
Speaker 8: was Turner classic movies like what they do now. But
Speaker 8: at the end of the day, they were fine with
Speaker 8: having wrestling on there and holding their nose the same
Speaker 8: way that I'm sure a lot of executives held their
Speaker 8: nose at the fact that the NBA may have been
Speaker 8: on their channel because they didn't want sports at all.
Speaker 8: They wanted some other type of programming on there, and
Speaker 8: you gave them everything that you needed. So at the
Speaker 8: end of the day, sure did AOL and Time Warner
Speaker 8: and Jamie Kellner helped to pull the plug on that.
Speaker 8: Absolutely they did, But you're the one who put it
Speaker 8: on life support to begin with and put it in
Speaker 8: the hands of somebody else. Period.
Speaker 1: We have Rdy Evans who resigned from TNA now going
Speaker 1: to work for a w He was in No, he
Speaker 1: is not. He was at Collision on Saturday allegedly we'll
Speaker 1: be a Dynamite tonight broking on backstage segments and so
Speaker 1: uh he's been doing creative, he's done creeve in w
Speaker 1: W E and uh T N A N A A
Speaker 1: w so mess the up to him back in the
Speaker 1: moment Observer Live.
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Speaker 2: Pricing may be higher. You are listening to Wrestling Observer
Speaker 2: Live with Brian Alvarez and Mike simper VV on the
Speaker 2: Sports Byline Broadcasting Network.
Speaker 1: The show Bright Alvera is here, Wrestling Observer Live Mike
Speaker 1: sumber VV also Wrestling Observer dot Com raw one point
Speaker 1: sixty one million viewers point five head Dad with the
Speaker 1: Stanley Cup Finals. That didn't do as well. Apparently people
Speaker 1: like the Stanley.
Speaker 8: Cupah, if you're gonna watch hockey at any time, it's
Speaker 8: usually for the outdoor game on New Year's Day, and
Speaker 8: in the Stanley Cup Finals, that's about it.
Speaker 1: Point ninety five and eighteen to forty nine. The Rock
Speaker 1: was injured, didn't even get a one. He he sprained
Speaker 1: his credibility in never mind, he uh got it hurt
Speaker 1: doing the Smashing Machine, injured his elbow.
Speaker 8: I think the big question is did he show up
Speaker 8: on time.
Speaker 1: It looks like a candalope, he says, the bottom of
Speaker 1: my elbow. I find that hard to believe. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: a cantelope is.
Speaker 8: They're pretty damn big. Now, Peach maybe.
Speaker 1: Got banged up pretty good in our scenes. Might be
Speaker 1: some soft tissue damage, lots of fluid.
Speaker 8: Of course, it wouldn't be like the Rock to embellish anything.
Speaker 1: No, so hopefully he can continue on with this movie
Speaker 1: I saw.
Speaker 8: I saw actually still go to in and out Burger
Speaker 8: for the first time.
Speaker 1: When they first announced that he was gonna be Mark Kerr,
Speaker 1: I was like, what the rock well, I I saw
Speaker 1: a still shot of him as Mark Kerr and Ga
Speaker 1: Lee kind of pulled it off.
Speaker 8: Well, you know, they sure they had some of the
Speaker 8: same training methods.
Speaker 1: Rounded pound something like that. I'm gonna talk about Rick
Speaker 1: Flair and these guys.
Speaker 8: I know you want to, though.
Speaker 1: I'd rather talk about NXT.
Speaker 8: I just like how Jim Hurd didn't respond to Flair,
Speaker 8: Brusso did and that got you know, dragged out, and
Speaker 8: then Bischoff, I guess just said his little piece and
Speaker 8: was done with it all right.
Speaker 1: Actually, first be for you a NXT just very quickly.
Speaker 1: Tonight has the Dynamite Show, will Ospray versus Ray Phoenix
Speaker 1: for the AW International title, Mercedes versus zook Ses for
Speaker 1: the TBS title. Yeah, the title is on the line.
Speaker 1: Mark Britske, Orange Cassi and Kyle O'Reilly versus Kyle Fletcher,
Speaker 1: to Kesht and Roderick Strong, Jericho's TV Time with Private Party,
Speaker 1: Dustin Rhodes versus Jack Perry and a T and t
Speaker 1: title qualifying match that's for the Forbidden Door Ladder Match
Speaker 1: is in action and we will hear from Swerve Strickland.
Speaker 1: That's the line up for tonight. Are they gonna lose
Speaker 1: NXT or not? What do you think?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 8: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Think there being NXT.
Speaker 8: Well, I don't know what's the NXT number. That's the
Speaker 8: whole thing.
Speaker 1: Find out about twenty minutes now that.
Speaker 8: Look, their NBA is going to do some damage. So
Speaker 8: could they be under eight hundred thousand. I think that's
Speaker 8: very possible that they're going to be under eight hundred thousand.
Speaker 8: But it really comes down to did NXT spike two?
Speaker 8: What did it do when Sexy Red was on there?
Speaker 8: What did to do last week?
Speaker 1: Dude? It's it's like zero point two three and seven
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand.
Speaker 8: Okay, So again it's gonna be I can see it
Speaker 8: being real tight. I can see it being real tight
Speaker 8: because look, if NXD did eight hundred thousand, I'll say
Speaker 8: that it beats it, okay. But I can also see
Speaker 8: it being neck and neck where they both did about
Speaker 8: seven to seventy five. I wouldn't fall over shocked at
Speaker 8: that either.
Speaker 1: It'll just depend on I don't know. I look at
Speaker 1: the line well Ospray and Ray Phoenix. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: excited for that match. Should be awesome. I will tune
Speaker 1: in for that match. I'll tune in nonetheless, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tune in for that match. Mercedes against Zuxies. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't need to see Mercedes appearance. I mean,
Speaker 1: Mercedes will see what she means having a match against
Speaker 1: I don't want to see anything. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: nothing against Zuxies, but I mean she's not drawing one
Speaker 1: fan of this show.
Speaker 8: No. But here's the thing, Brian, name somebody with the
Speaker 8: exception of Willow or Chris that probably would get a
Speaker 8: number or move something in a Mercedes. Like before the show,
Speaker 8: you could say, okay, I think that's gonna move something.
Speaker 8: I don't think anybody could. Well, really, you're selling it off.
Speaker 8: The Mercedes appearing.
Speaker 1: I think Mercedes against a name opponent of some sort,
Speaker 1: even a sky Blue, I mean that's something, But Zeuxis
Speaker 1: is nothing.
Speaker 8: No, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think
Speaker 8: it really necessarily even matters.
Speaker 1: I mean, Mark burs, Orange, Cassie, Kylo, Riiley versus Kyle
Speaker 1: Fletcher to catch and Roderick Strong. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a good match. To be a good match.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for the match, but I'm not sure that's
Speaker 1: a gonna draw a bunch of viewers. What's the story,
Speaker 1: what's the what's what's the uh?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 8: So let's cut Let's cut through all winter, Let's cut
Speaker 8: through all this because sore Strickling being on the show
Speaker 8: is going to that announcement helps, Mercedes being on their
Speaker 8: hell Osprey being on their helps. The only thing they
Speaker 8: could really do and they're not pulling this card out,
Speaker 8: is saying MJF is going to be here, like I
Speaker 8: mean it right, because we don't have anything concrete between
Speaker 8: him and Rushe. You know, Rush is going to be
Speaker 8: on there, but they're not saying MJF is going to
Speaker 8: be there. And to me, that's the biggest thing you
Speaker 8: can do. If they were that worried about this week
Speaker 8: and they felt some kind of way about WWE loading
Speaker 8: up NXT, then I think they probably either would have
Speaker 8: or should have pulled MJF out of the hat because again,
Speaker 8: unless somebody's coming back like Jamie Hayter, what are you
Speaker 8: gonna do here? All right?
Speaker 1: Some NXT notes, we'll do a full review with Dave
Speaker 1: and Vinnie. I generally liked this show, but there were dialogue.
Speaker 1: There were a few dialogue that I didn't really like.
Speaker 1: So first off, remember yesterday we were talking about wouldn't
Speaker 1: be NXT without a gallous match?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: They announced wes Lee Tyler baden Pete done against Galla.
Speaker 1: So that Kyle Lee wes Lee Tyler baden Pete done
Speaker 1: against Galas should be a really good match. Kind of
Speaker 1: a showcase here for wes Lee Tyler baden Pete done
Speaker 1: as God is my witness. Joe Coffee pinned wes Lee.
Speaker 1: What is up with his Joe Coffee solid? Everett? That's it, Mike,
Speaker 1: He's solid, this guy. You know, someone reminded me of
Speaker 1: They Go. Do you remember when Triple H was booking NXT.
Speaker 1: He had all this fantastic talent, the highlight, the glory
Speaker 1: days of NXT, but he was determined to get over
Speaker 1: the forgotten Sons and they were always getting pushed and
Speaker 1: they were and nobody ever cared and they never got over.
Speaker 1: You remember this, You.
Speaker 8: Just wait till Steve Macklin's in the Battle Royal for trick.
Speaker 1: Well, now we've got this Joe Coffee. Sean loves this
Speaker 1: Joe Coffee, and the fans they just don't care, like
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with them as a team, but they're
Speaker 1: just there. It's like, you know, the funny thing is
Speaker 1: we watch any we watch a w and it's like
Speaker 1: there's so many guys that are so talented, but they're
Speaker 1: booked to just have bangers and lose, okay, and we
Speaker 1: see it all the time, and it's frustrating because like
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys is like, why isn't Takeshta.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just there to have good matches and
Speaker 1: do jobs right, and you get angry because it's like
Speaker 1: he should be doing better. Well, this is like the
Speaker 1: opposite where these guys are good workers who should be
Speaker 1: there to do jobs, but instead they beat the actual
Speaker 1: stars over and over again. This match. Did you watch
Speaker 1: the match? They had a great match and these babyfaces
Speaker 1: are making a comeback and the place, I swear to God,
Speaker 1: this place was they were going crazy for this match
Speaker 1: and then Big Dive wipe out Gallas Place having so
Speaker 1: much fun and then West gets back in the ring,
Speaker 1: he gets hit with a Larry and pin by Joe Coffy,
Speaker 1: and the crowds went, what killed him? Killed him dead?
Speaker 1: And for what? Like, what's Joe Coffee in line for?
Speaker 1: Why did he beat wes Lee? Like literally, they just
Speaker 1: did a three way for the North American title with
Speaker 1: Obafemi and they put Joe Coffee in the match so
Speaker 1: that like he could do the job and you wouldn't
Speaker 1: beat wes Lee because Weslee wants his title from Obafemi.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, well, great, now we get wes
Speaker 1: Lee and Obafemi one on one, and literally, on the
Speaker 1: very next show, Joe Coffee beats wes Lee. I'm like,
Speaker 1: why did you do this? Why?
Speaker 8: Look, you need to have guys like Gallas. I would
Speaker 8: rather have Gallas there than a lot of other people
Speaker 8: in that role. And it's sometimes you have to give
Speaker 8: them credibility, you have to give them a little bit
Speaker 8: of something. At the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 8: wes Lee is going to go over Joe Coffee, you
Speaker 8: know Gallas. They're going to get to a certain point,
Speaker 8: maybe they even win the tag titles, but I don't
Speaker 8: see that in their future right now. But maybe that's
Speaker 8: the plan too, you know, in the future. Here, Look,
Speaker 8: you need to have some credibility for some of these
Speaker 8: people on the lower mid card and the mid card,
Speaker 8: and I get it. They look, I'm surprised that your
Speaker 8: your anger is not on Javon Evans and Sewn.
Speaker 1: Sp' I'm getting it that I know jumped the gun.
Speaker 8: But I even understand that one because you're not ready
Speaker 8: to put him in the stratosphere yet with Javon Evans,
Speaker 8: so he's got to actually, like, you know, slow down,
Speaker 8: learn how to work with a guy that's got a
Speaker 8: lot of experience.
Speaker 1: What Javone Evans, he had that match with with Freakin'
Speaker 1: awesome to the point where Aveli hadn't been the champion,
Speaker 1: Javon should have won. Okay when it was over. When
Speaker 1: it was over, we all said, okay, time to strap
Speaker 1: the rocket to this guy, which which they did. He
Speaker 1: ended up working a main event with Trick. He's teeming
Speaker 1: with the world champion in a main event. They're given
Speaker 1: the guy wins and then I don't even care that
Speaker 1: he necessarily did a job, but Sean Spears beat him.
Speaker 1: Sewn Spears has done nothing, nothing, He's not over nobody cares.
Speaker 1: He's not in an important storyline, he's not doing anything
Speaker 1: of note, and he goes in there and beats Javon Evans.
Speaker 1: Why would you put the brakes on Javon Evans and
Speaker 1: have Sean Spears beat him. It doesn't make a lick
Speaker 1: of sense none.
Speaker 8: In that case. In that look at that lineup in
Speaker 8: that locker room. You want to have him have his
Speaker 8: first feud with somebody. You want to have him have
Speaker 8: his first real story with somebody. Who is it? You
Speaker 8: can't use Joe Coffee. He's tied up right now. So
Speaker 8: who do you put in there?
Speaker 13: Then?
Speaker 8: Who do you give him the loss where you wouldn't
Speaker 8: be complaining about it? Then in there?
Speaker 1: I don't even want him to have a loss, but
Speaker 1: I want someone to be elevated for once.
Speaker 8: He worked in these elevated.
Speaker 1: It's not like he came out of the nil and
Speaker 1: he's a shot putter. The guy could already work, but
Speaker 1: he's fine.
Speaker 8: Obafemi is higher than him on the food chain. Wes
Speaker 8: Lee just came back higher than him on the food chain. Look,
Speaker 8: I understand it. If they were ready to strap the
Speaker 8: the rocket to him and give him the North American title,
Speaker 8: have him go over Obafemi or have him beat Trick
Speaker 8: and he's that guy. Okay, but that's obviously not what
Speaker 8: their plan is, so I gotta be that's the problem.
Speaker 8: But okay, if you're gonna do that with him, are
Speaker 8: you going to do that with everybody? Why not do
Speaker 8: that with Oba Femi?
Speaker 1: They are doing that?
Speaker 8: Why not just have a beat Trick then and being
Speaker 8: that because he's got a.
Speaker 1: Different belt, he's the he's the North American Champion. You've
Speaker 1: gone all the way with Obafemi.
Speaker 8: Okay, then okay, so let's just say he beats Sewn
Speaker 8: Spears there so you never want to see him break
Speaker 8: Shawn Spears again.
Speaker 1: Then I don't want to see him against Shawn Spears
Speaker 1: again ever.
Speaker 8: Do you go so so you want him to have
Speaker 8: a Goldberg type streak? Then no?
Speaker 1: But I think that he should be beating guys and
Speaker 1: moving his way up the ladder and when wes Lee,
Speaker 1: you know what he should do. Wes Lee should beat
Speaker 1: Obafemi and then he has his title reign and then
Speaker 1: he puts over Javon Evans. That's what they should do
Speaker 1: because you know what what is what do we keep
Speaker 1: complaining about with aw nobody ever gets elevated. And they
Speaker 1: had all of these young guys eighteen nineteen, twenty years old.
Speaker 1: Now you know, I'm Jim, and these guys dragon off
Speaker 1: Carmelo Hayron.
Speaker 8: Breaker when they're young, Roxane Perez them over when they're young.
Speaker 1: Javan has something very special and he shouldn't be losing
Speaker 1: to Sean Spears under any circumstance.
Speaker 8: So what's his feud then? So again I to me,
Speaker 8: I don't know. I to me, you're over valuing him.
Speaker 8: I think a little bit too much here as far
Speaker 8: as being that dude, And I get it, and I'm
Speaker 8: not thrilled with the Spears situation either.
Speaker 1: And why are we arguing?
Speaker 8: But with that said, because I understand that he needs
Speaker 8: to be in feud with somebody and he's going to
Speaker 8: take an l to me, it's like, again, he's got
Speaker 8: to take it to somebody. Who is it gonna be against.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go over the end. I'm gonna go over
Speaker 1: the NF. I'm gonna go out, I'll say after the
Speaker 1: break back. In a moment Observer Life.
Speaker 2: You were listening to Wrestling Observer Live with Brian Alvarez
Speaker 2: and Mike SIMPERVV on the Sports Byline Broadcasting Network.
Speaker 1: I looked up and down the whole ross. Are you
Speaker 1: ready for this? You know should have beat Javon Evans
Speaker 1: who nobody uh see exactly, No, because here's a deal,
Speaker 1: so Goldberg, that's what you're saying. No, dude, he doesn't
Speaker 1: have to win every week. Brother. But listen, you established
Speaker 1: you established that he can almost beat the NXT champion.
Speaker 1: He almost beat Ilia Dragonov. So your follow up you
Speaker 1: have gone from him almost beating the world champion to
Speaker 1: teaming with the current world champion to doing a job
Speaker 1: for Sean Spears. Why would you do that? If anything,
Speaker 1: Once he was established that he can almost beat the
Speaker 1: world champion and he's good enough to team and win
Speaker 1: with current world champion, then if he's losing to someone,
Speaker 1: it should be trick Oba Femei, not Sean Spears. If
Speaker 1: he's gonna lose to somebody, there needs to be what
Speaker 1: is the reason for him losing to Shawn Spears? What
Speaker 1: is the reason he had to do that job to
Speaker 1: have a fifty to fifty with Shawn Spears? How does
Speaker 1: that help Jevon Evans.
Speaker 8: Wow, it depends that you don't know what the story
Speaker 8: they're going to tell is Rocky didn't turn around and
Speaker 8: beat Apollo Creed in the first fight. They had a
Speaker 8: story that they wanted to tell. And I get that.
Speaker 1: You wanted them to see who was Apollo Creed?
Speaker 8: Who was Apollo Creed?
Speaker 1: I know that, Yeah, but who was he in the
Speaker 1: storylineweight chance? That's not sewn Spears.
Speaker 8: I know that, But for Heaven's sakes, look, I get
Speaker 8: what you're saying, but there also needs to be a
Speaker 8: hierarchy in order there. And look again, I wish they
Speaker 8: had some more people established because, like I mentioned during
Speaker 8: the break a heel Brooks, by this point, maybe back
Speaker 8: you could have did something there. But that's the way
Speaker 8: things go. And you're gonna have to deal with it, Brian,
Speaker 8: deal with Joe Coffee and you're gonna have to deal
Speaker 8: with Shawn Spears.
Speaker 1: What a horrible birthday. I'm od here, everybody. I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next time Wrestling Observer Live. You have been
Speaker 1: listening to the Wrestling Observer Daily podcast on the eight
Speaker 1: Side Network