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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen girl. A young

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Speaker 1: Amish girl goes missing, seemingly without a trace, after church

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Speaker 1: on a Sunday afternoon. How does this happen? Where is Linda?

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: crime online dot com. It was Father's Day and Linda

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Speaker 1: Stultzfus was on her way home from church. She told

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Speaker 1: friends she'd meet the meta youth meeting after she went

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Speaker 1: back to her family's Burdenhand farm to change her clothes.

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Speaker 1: Stultsfuss was seen at a farm on Stumptown Road, between

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Speaker 1: the intersection of Beechdale and Gibbons Roads in Burdenhand. When

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Speaker 1: Stultzfus didn't meet her friends at the youth meeting, they worried.

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Speaker 1: Her parents later told the East lamp Your Township police

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Speaker 1: that they looked in her room and when they couldn't

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Speaker 1: find any church clothes in a room, they knew she'd

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Speaker 1: never made it home from church. She never changed her clothes,

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Speaker 1: She never made it back to the youth meeting. The

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old Amish girl's disappearance on June twenty first

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Speaker 1: left authority scrambling for answers. The FBI, Pennsylvania State police

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Speaker 1: have all joined the search, but still nobody knows what

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Speaker 1: happened to Linda stultsfus what happened to this teen girl?

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Speaker 1: Now you would think in the middle of Amish country

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Speaker 1: nothing could go wrong, but it did. Joining me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it

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Speaker 1: back together again. First of all, TROYE. Layton right now,

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Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, joining me out of la Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: New York psychologist. You can find her at Karen dot com.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coalcase Research Institute and forensics expert.

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Speaker 1: Special guests joining us. Karen Johnson Winer, Professor Emerita of

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Speaker 1: Anthropology at Sunny that is in New York, author of

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Speaker 1: the Lives of Amish Women, Coming Out that came out

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Speaker 1: in Coming Out September twenty twenty and just a few days.

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Speaker 1: Sierra Gillespie Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. First to you. Sierra,

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Speaker 1: explain to me how in Amish country, where typically there's

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Speaker 1: not a lot of cars, very tight knit community, no

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Speaker 1: one saw what happened to Linda. Let's start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: How what was she last saying? For sure? Nancy? She

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Speaker 1: was last seen for sure at church and June twenty,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, so that's Father's Day. Most of us can

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Speaker 1: remember where we were in Father's Day. So she was

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Speaker 1: seen at church in the morning and the plan was

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Speaker 1: for her to go home. She had made a dessert

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Speaker 1: that she was planning to bring to her youth group.

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Speaker 1: She was going to change her clothes, grab that dessert,

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Speaker 1: and then head over to her youth group, which was

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Speaker 1: two pm to eleven pm. But nobody at youth group

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Speaker 1: saw her, and again her parents figure she never even

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Speaker 1: came home to change her quotes. But one thing we

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Speaker 1: can say for sure is this area bird in Hand.

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Speaker 1: It's about an hour fifteen east of Philadelphia, and it

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Speaker 1: is a large Amish Mennonite community. However, it is somewhat

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Speaker 1: of like a tourist attraction for people in the area,

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Speaker 1: like if you want to take a look at what

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Speaker 1: it would be like to live in an Amish community community,

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Speaker 1: or if you want to, I don't know, purchase whatever

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Speaker 1: they're selling. So there are vehicles that are driving through

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Speaker 1: that area. Okay, so there is a fair bit of

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Speaker 1: car traffic. Because it's really hard for me to believe

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Speaker 1: she can be abducted on foot or in a horse

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Speaker 1: drawn carriage with nobody seeing her. Where I grew up,

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Speaker 1: I would say about forty five minutes to an hour away,

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Speaker 1: a huge min and I community in a very rural area.

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Speaker 1: So I'm comparing to that. Joining me a special guest,

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Speaker 1: Karen Johnson Weiner, Professor Emerita Anthropology, Sunny, author of the

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Speaker 1: Lives of Amish Women. Coming Out you can get a

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Speaker 1: September twenty twenty, Karen, thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Tell me about the life of an Amish

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Speaker 1: woman at this age, particularly eighteen. Well, at eighteen, her

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Speaker 1: life would have revolved around whatever work she was doing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if Linda was employed, either with a

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Speaker 1: family business or working for friend motel work. But on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: it would has been on the Sunday that church met.

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Speaker 1: It would have involved church and the youth group that

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Speaker 1: she was with, the young folk that she would would join.

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Speaker 1: All of her social life would have been with that

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Speaker 1: young folk, So she would have been busy. She would

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Speaker 1: have been helping at home, she would have been with

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Speaker 1: her friends. How often do you say Amish chains defect

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Speaker 1: leave the community. Um, well, that depends on the particular

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Speaker 1: Amish group. Um, there's there's a lot of diversity in

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Speaker 1: the Amish world. And UM, and in some communities the

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Speaker 1: rate of leaving maybe fifteen twenty percent, and others it's

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Speaker 1: it's much much lower. Um, there's no indication that that

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Speaker 1: Linda was leaving her church community. UM. I don't know

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Speaker 1: Linda or her family, but UM, her friends would have known,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem to be the case. Why do

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Speaker 1: you say her friends would have known if she were leaving.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't she have kept that a secret? Probably her friends

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Speaker 1: would have known. Um, she took nothing, She took no money.

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Speaker 1: It would have been something that those closest to her

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Speaker 1: would have suspected. This. The Lancaster Amish young people are

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Speaker 1: quite connected with each other. There's a lot of the Amish,

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Speaker 1: don't let me put it this way. Being with others

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Speaker 1: is important in the community, and so she would not

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Speaker 1: have been so isolated. People would have suspected straight out

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Speaker 1: to Seierra Gillespie, Crime Online dot Com investigator reporter way in,

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Speaker 1: what do we know, if anything, about the possibility she

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Speaker 1: wanted to leave? Nancy were told that she did not

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Speaker 1: want to leave. Investigators say that they did interview family friends.

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Speaker 1: She was kind of a timid young woman. She was

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Speaker 1: happy in groups, but she wasn't like super out spoken

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, and she made no indication to

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Speaker 1: anyone that she wanted to actually read the Amish community. Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Investigators in Lancaster County spent

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Speaker 1: the day searching for eighteen year old Linda Stultspus. State

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Speaker 1: Police about six hundred trained search and rescue volunteers focused

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Speaker 1: on a two and a half square mile area in

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Speaker 1: the Welsh Mountains in East Earl Township. They searched from

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Speaker 1: seven this morning until six in this evening. So far,

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Speaker 1: Linda has not been found, but investigators say their goal

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Speaker 1: is to continue to work together with the community to

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Speaker 1: locate her. Stultspus has been missing since June twenty first.

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Speaker 1: Police believe she was abducted while walking home from church

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Speaker 1: in Burdenhad Too. Cheryl McCollum, director to Colcase Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: If she were abducted on the street walking home from

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Speaker 1: church to home, why are there no witnesses, Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest concerns is going to be she

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Speaker 1: obviously will not have a cell phone. She wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: a way to call for help or have us, even

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Speaker 1: through GPS, know her whereabouts. You know, in her community.

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Speaker 1: There's not going to be any cameras. There's not going

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Speaker 1: to be any surveillance near her farm or the farms

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Speaker 1: of other people in the Amish community. So what we're

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Speaker 1: going to have to rely on is somebody in a

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Speaker 1: typical American family that may have a ring camera. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there are no ring cameras, there's no video surveillance. And

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Speaker 1: according to what we're learning, many people come to the

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Speaker 1: area to buy furniture, to buy vegetables and fruits, to

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Speaker 1: buy homemade gems and jellies. What do we know about

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Speaker 1: the disappearance of this teen girl? How did she just

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Speaker 1: disappear off the street? Was she still wearing her Amish

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Speaker 1: clothes or was she changed into regular street clothes? Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the disappearance

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Speaker 1: of a precious young girl, a teen girl, Linda Stultsfus,

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Speaker 1: who goes missing. What do we know? We were just

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Speaker 1: listening to our friend and Shannon at WGA L News eight.

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Speaker 1: Now take a listen to our friend Dave Mackett crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com. When Linda Stultsfus failed to meet her

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Speaker 1: friend's bank at church for a youth meeting. They were

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Speaker 1: confused and a bit scared. It was totally unlike Linda

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Speaker 1: to not be where she was expected. Friends and family

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Speaker 1: immediately started looking for retracing her footsteps, but no Linda.

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Speaker 1: As members of the community trying to remember every minute

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Speaker 1: of the day, several members of the Amish community said

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Speaker 1: they saw red Kia rio passing through the area that

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Speaker 1: day with someone resembling stultsfoods sitting in the passenger seat.

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Speaker 1: That same red Kia Rio was later spotted park next

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Speaker 1: to railroad tracks. A red Kia you know, I want

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Speaker 1: to go to Karen Stark, New York Psychologists joining me

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Speaker 1: from Manhattan today, Karen Stark. When someone is brought up

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Speaker 1: in a very sheltered environment, they might get into a

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Speaker 1: car if somebody said, hey, can you hop in and

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Speaker 1: show me how to get to X y Z where

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Speaker 1: my children I've had it, you know, drummed into their

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Speaker 1: head day one. Don't get into a car with anybody

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Speaker 1: you don't know, no matter how nice they may seem.

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Speaker 1: And of course they're always doing you know, those tests

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Speaker 1: on a group of children, and they still get in

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Speaker 1: the car. But especially growing up in a sheltered environment.

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Speaker 1: She may think it's okay to get in a car

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Speaker 1: with someone to give them directions. Well, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a good point, Nancy, because she might even go close

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Speaker 1: to the car. It's a rural area, it's not that

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Speaker 1: develop and she's very naive, and so I also think

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Speaker 1: there's this whole emphasis, you know, helping and being cooperative

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Speaker 1: toward each other. So it's a stranger of what to say.

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Speaker 1: I'm totally lust I don't know where I am. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if she'd get in the car, but she

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Speaker 1: might come close enough to the car to someone to

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Speaker 1: grab her frighten her, you know, pull out a knife,

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Speaker 1: a gun, and say you've got to get into the car.

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Speaker 1: So I do agree that that's a possibility. To Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl, what kind

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Speaker 1: of a search needed to take place as soon as

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Speaker 1: it was realized she was missing? And remember, whatever happened,

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Speaker 1: if someone did take her, they've got to jump on us,

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Speaker 1: because it was until hours later that the parents went

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Speaker 1: and saw her church clothes were still missing, so she

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Speaker 1: didn't come home and change. Nancy, I think that it's

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Speaker 1: significant to point out that when you have a missing person,

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Speaker 1: the first three hours are so critical and at that point,

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Speaker 1: to me, they should have been able to utilize drones,

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Speaker 1: call dogs, volunteers, you know, David old Foote for certain

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Speaker 1: places that needed to happen literally as soon as possible.

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Speaker 1: To Karen Johnson Weiner, Professor Emerita Anthropology at Sunny, author

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Speaker 1: of the Lives of Amish Women. The Amish society heavily

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Speaker 1: emphasize emphasizes being friends to others. Is it conceivable to

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Speaker 1: you that she would have gotten into the car with

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Speaker 1: someone trying to help them? Not very I mean, I

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Speaker 1: mean Lancaster County is I mean they're not isolated in

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Speaker 1: their homes away from non Amish or English as as

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Speaker 1: we are called burntam Lancaster County is a center for

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Speaker 1: tourism and thousands of tourists come every year. Now that

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Speaker 1: said she would have tried to be helpful. It's also

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Speaker 1: a very confusing place and I'm sure tourists get lost

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Speaker 1: all the time, and so it wouldn't have been an

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Speaker 1: odd thing for someone to perhaps ask her for help.

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Speaker 1: But she would have known better than to get in

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Speaker 1: someone's car. Even the most conservative, isolated Amish teach their

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Speaker 1: children not to do that. So it's very hard for

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Speaker 1: me to think that she would get in the car

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Speaker 1: of someone she didn't know, had never met, willingly to

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Speaker 1: go some way and point it out, especially walking along

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Speaker 1: the road, when she could have just said go three

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Speaker 1: miles that way in turn right. So they're not so

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Speaker 1: isolated as to be completely naive about the world, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, they learned that the world is a dangerous place,

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Speaker 1: the world outside their community. You know, you have dedicated

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Speaker 1: your book to the lives of Amish women. Yes, let

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Speaker 1: me ask you this, Karen Johnson Weiner. Are marriages arranged

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Speaker 1: within the Amish community, No, absolutely not. Young people meet

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Speaker 1: each other in the context of those young groups or

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Speaker 1: the youth groups, and they date. And while it's important

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Speaker 1: that the person they choose to marry be a fellow

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Speaker 1: church member and that you know, and parents will certainly

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Speaker 1: speak up if they think someone is unsuitable, those are

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Speaker 1: love matches. From what we are learning from the local

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Speaker 1: township police and from the Pennsylvania State Police, Linda was

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Speaker 1: very happy in the Amish lifestyle. No one, not one

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Speaker 1: person that they interviewed reported she was unhappy in any way.

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Speaker 1: She was very timid in groups in public. She never

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Speaker 1: had any boyfriends or non Amish friends. Police searched her

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Speaker 1: bedroom and found her money still there, along with her

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Speaker 1: travel bag and other belongings. The only thing missing or

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Speaker 1: her church clothes. Police also checked for any activity on

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Speaker 1: this young girl's bank accounts. There has been none. That

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Speaker 1: tells me a lot. You know, when I compare Karen Stark,

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Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us Lucy's behavior to John David's

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Speaker 1: behavior my children, they're completely different. John David is the

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Speaker 1: mayor of Happyville. He will walk into a room and

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Speaker 1: he may not know anybody at the beginning. By the

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Speaker 1: time he leaves will know every body, and while not

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Speaker 1: being the center of attention, will have a perfectly wonderful time. Lucy,

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Speaker 1: my daughter at home, is very She runs the whole ship, okay,

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Speaker 1: because it's just easier because she's very particular for us

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Speaker 1: to go along with her desires. But in a group,

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Speaker 1: she's really timid and shy, very very quiet. So I

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Speaker 1: believe that What do you make of the fact that

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Speaker 1: police are saying very timid and shy, no indication she

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Speaker 1: was unhappy with the Amish lifestyle. Well, that's a very

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Speaker 1: strong indication that this is not a girl who just

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Speaker 1: decided one day I'm going to leave and walked off

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Speaker 1: wearing her Amish clothes and decided that she's going to

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Speaker 1: start her life again. It's not like the kind of

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Speaker 1: movies we see where someone leaves that kind of a

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Speaker 1: strict religious community and decides to be independent, because there

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Speaker 1: was no indication. And much like Lucy, who by the way,

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Speaker 1: was like that since she was born, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: much shyer. You know, she's very shy, so she would

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Speaker 1: never just approach a stranger. I'm sure she was taught

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Speaker 1: not to and there would be no reason for her

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Speaker 1: to do that. So something is indeed very suspicious here.

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Speaker 1: And that's where you look at the beginning Troy s

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Speaker 1: Layton renew on criminal defense attorney, joining me out of

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Speaker 1: LA You look to see if they left on their own,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people were thinking, oh, she hated

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Speaker 1: the Amish lifestyles too repressive. No, as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: she loved it. So that's where you start. Did she

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Speaker 1: leave on her own? Was she in the car with

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Speaker 1: some guy and it's red Kia that may or may

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Speaker 1: not have been her because a woman in the car

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Speaker 1: had all of the traditional headdresses, but that does is

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Speaker 1: not supported by the facts that we know, Troy, Isn't

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Speaker 1: that where you the jumping off point? Well, the people

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Speaker 1: that they asked about whether or not she was happy

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Speaker 1: with the Amish lifestyle were other Amish people, So of

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Speaker 1: course everyone is going to say that she was happy

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Speaker 1: with that lifestyle. They've got a girl missing, do I

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Speaker 1: think they're going to tell the truth? We heard from

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Speaker 1: the anthropologist up that there's an up to fifteen percent

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Speaker 1: defection rate for Amishness. All of that aside, we don't

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Speaker 1: have anybody, We don't have any forensic evidence that we

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Speaker 1: know of that's been publicly reported that shows that there

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Speaker 1: was any type of foul play. And although she may

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Speaker 1: have left her money and other belongings, if she was

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Speaker 1: trying to make a quick getaway and not raise suspicion

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Speaker 1: in the Amish community where everybody is looking in on

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Speaker 1: everybody else's business, then maybe that makes perfect sense. Crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we were talking about the

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Speaker 1: disappearance of a teen girl, Linda Stoltzfus. When you think

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Speaker 1: of Amish communities, you don't think of kidnap, much less

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Speaker 1: anything worse. So what did happen to Linda? Where is

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Speaker 1: she now? I want to go back to our special

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Speaker 1: guest joining us, Karen Johnson Weiner, author of the Lies

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Speaker 1: of Amish Women. At South September one, twenty twenty, we

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Speaker 1: just heard Troy Slayton, defense attorney out of la reiterate

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's a fifteen percent defection rate in

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Speaker 1: the Amish community. Ay, I think that's a very low

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Speaker 1: defection rate. Eighty five percent of people Amish people stay

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Speaker 1: within the community. And two, I'm not the expert you are,

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Speaker 1: but would be willing to guess at a large percentage

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Speaker 1: of those that affect our male you would be correct.

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Speaker 1: It's the defection rate is higher among male than female,

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Speaker 1: and females tend to leave the church um if they're

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Speaker 1: unhappy with the church teachings. And so far there seems

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Speaker 1: to be no indication that Linda was unhappy with church teachings.

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Speaker 1: Men often leave to get things, you know, um, they

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Speaker 1: want to have cars or something, um, So it's even

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Speaker 1: less likely that that she defected. UM. When people defect,

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Speaker 1: they often have plans in advance and have and do

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Speaker 1: make arrangements with outsiders. But there's been no indication that,

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Speaker 1: or at least none has been mentioned that Linda had

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Speaker 1: those kinds of connections with non Amish people that would

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Speaker 1: facilitate such a departure. And Karen Johnson, why are I

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Speaker 1: assume they don't have such media either, Well, that would

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Speaker 1: be false. Particularly in Lancaster County, Amish young people, many

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Speaker 1: of them do have cell phones, many of them are

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Speaker 1: on Facebook. As I said, there's great diversity in the

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Speaker 1: Amish world and the Amish in Lancaster. And you know

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Speaker 1: this is not uniform across all of Lancaster, but the

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Speaker 1: Amish in Lancaster tend to be among the most progressive

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Speaker 1: of Amish. So you will find Amish young people with

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Speaker 1: cell phones, you will find them participating in social media.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like Linda was one of those. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the nature of the youth group

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Speaker 1: that she was in. That's that's not been reported. There

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Speaker 1: are different kinds of youth groups. Some are supervised by

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Speaker 1: it all, some are not. I don't know about Linda's group,

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Speaker 1: but nothing in what's reported suggest that she was unhappy

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Speaker 1: with the church, that she was one of those who

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Speaker 1: crowded defenses. The Amish say that she was partying wildly

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Speaker 1: with a wild youth group. Well, it was said earlier,

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Speaker 1: and I thought this really stuck in my head that

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Speaker 1: they don't have cars. It sometimes men lay the Amish

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Speaker 1: community because they want things like cars. But we think

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Speaker 1: she may have been spotted in a red Kia, which

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Speaker 1: tells me if that was her, it was a non

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Speaker 1: Amish person she was with earlier. Troice Layton mentioned forensic

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Speaker 1: kevinants take a listen to our friend Grace Griffithin at

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Speaker 1: Fox forty three, the authorities said they have not found

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old Linda Stoltspus. They reiterated all evidence suggests

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Speaker 1: that she may have been harmed. They're also asking people

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Speaker 1: in Lancaster County to check their home surveillance systems to

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Speaker 1: see if there are any clue. Who's there Something that

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Speaker 1: seems so insignificant could be of great impact of this case.

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Speaker 1: That's the message from the four main agencies investigating the

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Speaker 1: Linda Staltzpou's abduction. The Pennsylvania State Police, East lad Peter

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Speaker 1: Township Police, the FBI, and the Lakester County District Attorney's

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Speaker 1: Office authority spoke publicly on the case for the first time.

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Speaker 1: There have also been many questions about what steps police

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Speaker 1: are taking in this investigation, and while we cannot answer

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Speaker 1: that in detail at this time, I want to assure

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Speaker 1: you that we are using all investigative tools at our

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Speaker 1: disposal to completely and appropriately investigate the disappearance of Linda Staltzfus.

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Speaker 1: I do not believe it's appropriate to just assume she

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Speaker 1: wanted to leave the Amish community. A the defection right

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Speaker 1: very very life for Amish women too. She exhibited no

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Speaker 1: unhappiness amongst her religion or her friends and family, but

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Speaker 1: the red Kia keeps looming. Take a listen to Barbara

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Speaker 1: Barr w g al Core Papers provide information on the

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Speaker 1: alleged abduction and detail what led police to arrest thirty

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Speaker 1: four year old Eusto Smoker. The papers site surveillance cameras

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Speaker 1: that put his car in this area when Linda Stolsfus

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Speaker 1: disappeared the afternoon of June twenty first. The video enhanced

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Speaker 1: by the FBI captured a Red Kia police eventually traced

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Speaker 1: to Smoker driving along Stumptown in Beechdale Roads between twelve

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Speaker 1: thirty six and twelve forty two that Sunday, afternoon. The

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Speaker 1: cameras show a person walking in the direction Linda would

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Speaker 1: have been going, and a second unknown person coming from

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Speaker 1: where the vehicle pulled off. In the affidavit, witnesses told

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Speaker 1: investigators they saw an Amish woman riding in a red

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Speaker 1: car on Amish Roading Gap around one thirty that afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Two days later, around five pm, police say another witness

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Speaker 1: reported seeing the vehicle park near train tracks and ronks.

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Speaker 1: Police would eventually find some of Linda's clothing buried there.

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Speaker 1: The search for this team girl takes an ominous turn

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Speaker 1: when items believe to be hers are found buried near

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Speaker 1: a railroad track straight out to Cheryl McCollum, director a

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Speaker 1: cold case research institute, where did the surveillance video come from?

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Speaker 1: And how can we be sure that that was Linda?

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Speaker 1: And the surveillance video Nancy. It came from a private home.

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Speaker 1: It was on the path that she would take to

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Speaker 1: go back home to get the dessert that she made

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Speaker 1: for the party. She was walking in the right direction

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Speaker 1: and they've identified her from that video. And here's the

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Speaker 1: thing that, of course is completely just twisted devil to me.

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Speaker 1: This person in the red kid knew from a distance

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Speaker 1: that she was Amish. The cathlink dress, the apron, the bonnet.

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Speaker 1: He knew, so even from a distance, he knew again

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't have a cell phone. Nobody would have GPS

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Speaker 1: on her. He knew there wouldn't be a phone at

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Speaker 1: the family home, so when she didn't return home, they

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Speaker 1: would literally have to take a horse and buggy to

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Speaker 1: the next place that maybe had a phone. You're talking

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Speaker 1: about a lot of tom before they can search places

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Speaker 1: for this child. The church where the party is, her

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Speaker 1: best friend's farm. You're talking about a lot of time

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Speaker 1: wasted trying just to figure out issue where she's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be. The other thing that is good, though, forensically,

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Speaker 1: is that they did recover some items that had been buried.

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Speaker 1: Those items, if the assailant touched them and buried them

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Speaker 1: her bronze stockings, they would possibly have touched DNA on them.

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Speaker 1: Two Karen Johnston Weiner, author of the Lives of Amish Women,

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Speaker 1: comes out September one, twenty Karen. I looked was walking

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Speaker 1: and on either side of it tall tall grass, trees

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Speaker 1: fields on either side beyond that, I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: think anyone could have seen what was happening because the

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Speaker 1: grasses are so high. And is it true that Amish

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Speaker 1: do not have telephones. You told me that many of

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Speaker 1: them have cell phones. Yes, certainly some of the young

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Speaker 1: folkus cell phones, others have Others in the community will

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Speaker 1: have cell phones. It really depends on which Amish community

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, and that's the case in Lancaster. People

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Speaker 1: will have cellphones. Now, whether Linda had a cellphone is

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Speaker 1: another question. It sounds to me like her family was

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Speaker 1: conservative and that she was with a conservative youth group,

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Speaker 1: and so she may not have and people there may

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Speaker 1: not have had cellphones. My guests would be she did

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Speaker 1: not and that they did not, Karen, because I think

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Speaker 1: they would have called her if she didn't. Sunday. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's Sunday, and people keep you know that that Sunday

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Speaker 1: is important. She's not going to have it on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Sunday is for church, Sunday is for for the youth

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Speaker 1: to meet. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a missing Amish girl. Linda salts Fool's eighteen years old,

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Speaker 1: very shy, very timid, walking home from church, goes missing.

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Speaker 1: We believe she was spotted in a red Kio. I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking with Karen Johnson Winer, author of the Lives of

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Speaker 1: Amish Women. So, Karen, unlike for instance, Orthodox number or

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Speaker 1: push an elevator button, or do anything that may be

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Speaker 1: construed as work on their Sabbath, I don't believe that

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Speaker 1: the Amish have that rule that they can't even if

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Speaker 1: they're going to have a cell phone, which many of

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Speaker 1: them do not, But if they do, I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: I've never known that there is a rule they can't

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Speaker 1: use it on Sunday. They wouldn't be using it on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Um that Sunday is, well, it's the Sabbath. She's at church.

427
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: She's not going to take a cell phone to church.

428
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: Others aren't going to take a cell phone to church,

429
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: churches in in someone's home. So so you're not going

430
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: to do that. M They're not going to be buying

431
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: and selling things on Sunday, so there's not going to

432
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: be much traffic past the road where an Amish stand

433
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: might be right, right, So they do have stands on Sunday,

434
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: So they do buy and sell on Sunday to tourists

435
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: that they won't that they don't think, Okay, they won't Um,

436
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, young people who may have cell phones are

437
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,239
Speaker 1: not going to take them to church. Um you know

438
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: they're they're the Sabbath is a day when you don't

439
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: do worldly things. Um when when it's for the church,

440
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: it's with family, it's for young people to get together

441
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: and got it. So, Um, well, there may be cellphones

442
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: in the community, and I know there are. They wouldn't

443
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: have been in play on Sunday and so and I

444
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: don't know if Linda even had one. Guys, we are

445
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: speaking with Karen Johnson wine Or, author of the Lives

446
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: of Amish Women. What more do we know about the

447
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: driver of that red car and about the car itself?

448
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at wg al Police

449
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: have arrest of thirty four year old used to smoke

450
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: or for kidnapping eighteen year old Linda Stullus. They're still

451
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: searching for and reaching out their residence for help. We

452
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: are asking for residence of East Earl, East Lampeter, Laycock,

453
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: Paradise and Salisbury townships to think whether they might have

454
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: seen the red ka red Kia rio pictured here in

455
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: recent weeks and if so, where they saw it. That's

456
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: the car belonging to Smoker. It was key to his

457
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: arrest and police hope it will lead them to Linda.

458
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: Surveillance video captured it on Beechdale Road, where police say

459
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: she was kidnapped walking home from church the afternoon of

460
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: June twenty first. The Staltzuitz family did not know Smoker,

461
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: and we found no reason that Linda would have voluntarily

462
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: entered Smoker's vehicle only a short distance from her home.

463
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: A witness also spotted the car near train tracks, where

464
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: investigators found some of Linda's clothing buried underground. The discovery

465
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: of intimate clothing buried in a location where Smoker's vehicle

466
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: was seen lends only to the conclusion that she suffered harm.

467
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: What are we learning? We are learning a lot and

468
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 1: one simple move by this girl. Linda Stoltzfus tells me

469
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: a lot. Take a listen to John Borack wgal niece eight.

470
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: Police have made an arrest in the disappearance of eighteen

471
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: year old Linda Stultzfus, who went missing just three weeks

472
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: ago as she was walking home following a Sunday morning

473
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: church service. Thirty four year old Housto Smoker has been

474
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: arrested and charged with kidnapping and intent to inflict bodily injury.

475
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: He's currently being hailed without bail. Authorities believed Smoker abducted

476
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: Stoltzfus on Beachdale Road where Linda was walking home, and

477
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: then proceeded to drive away with her in his two

478
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: thousand and seven red Kiaio. Several eyewitnesses say they saw

479
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: Stultzfus in the passenger seat of that car. They waved

480
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: at her, but she did not wave back. Two days

481
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: after her disappearance, that same car was spotted at a

482
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: lumber company in Rocks and just yesterday detectives found some

483
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: of linda His clothing buried in a wooded area at

484
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: that same location. As of now, though detectives have not

485
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: found Linda Stults, but the search continues. Sierra Gillespie with

486
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, What specifically were

487
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: the items of clothing that have been found and is

488
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: it true zip ties were also recovered? Nancy, It is

489
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: true ziptides were recovered in that area. Investigators were searching around.

490
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: They even brought in cadaver dogs, which were dogs that

491
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: would smell out if there was a body. The dogs

492
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 1: did not find anything, but Eventually investigators decided to dig

493
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: and relatively deep down they found some of her personal items.

494
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: So they found her stockings and Linda's braw in that area.

495
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director Coal Case Research Institute forensics expert, joining us,

496
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: this young girl who was so shy and timid from

497
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: the Amish community would never have parted with her stings

498
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: or her bra willingly never would not have happened again, Nancy.

499
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: What's concerning, obviously is that this person that was last

500
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: seen with her had at least three days the day

501
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: of the abduction, and then two days later his car

502
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: has seen so he's had three days to dispose of

503
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: evidence and to hide evidence and hide her and he did,

504
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: of course obviously have access to a vehicle, so we

505
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: don't know where she is right now. But again, if

506
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: she's recovered, obviously I think zip ties are going to

507
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: be involved. It'll be the exact same zip tie that's

508
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: already been found. And again, his DNA quite possibly is

509
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: on all three items that they have recovered so far.

510
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: If he has a cell phone, they will also start

511
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: pinging that cell phone to see just how far outside

512
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: Lancaster he might have gone to dispose of her. But

513
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: if I can just say one more thing, the FBI

514
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: has done something unique that I've never heard of before,

515
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: in just regular street clothes that any seventeen year old,

516
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: eighteen year old teenager would wear, and have done a

517
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: photo with her with her hair down, without the bonnet,

518
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: so just in case he's putting her somewhere else to

519
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: look like a typical American teenager, non Amish, typical American

520
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: teenager without her bra stockings. Okay, um two, this is

521
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: what I don't understand. Who is this guy? And as

522
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum pointed out earlier, he could target her as

523
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: Amish at a distance based on her outfit. Karen Johnson Winder,

524
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: what would her outfit have been? Well, it would be

525
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: it would have been a black dress with a white apron.

526
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: She would have had a bonnet or perhaps just her

527
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: prayer cap on which would have been white for church.

528
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: And she would have had the black stockings, black shoes,

529
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: so she would have stood out easily. It's a it's

530
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: a well known outfit. It's in all sorts of tourist

531
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: pictures all over Lancaster County. Jeu Sierra Gillespie. What do

532
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: we know about Whostou Smoker, thirty four years old, Nancy.

533
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: What we know about him is he's from the Paradise township,

534
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: which is relatively close to burn in hand. It's like

535
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen minutes away, So we know that this

536
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: guy is very familiar with an Amish community growing up

537
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: or living in that area. Something else that's very important

538
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: to note too, is he was just released from prison

539
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: back in twenty nineteen, so just last year. And this

540
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: was after a string of armed robberies that took place

541
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, so he spent a great

542
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: deal of time in prison for that and was just

543
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: recently released. Troice light and criminal defense attorney, why is

544
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: he even out number one? And it's my understanding he

545
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: has just pled not guilty. Shouldn't he be trying to

546
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: work a deal and tell where Linda is? That's assuming

547
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: that he knows where she is. But at this point,

548
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: he's pled not guilty and he is presumed innocent until

549
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: the government can prove each and every element of the

550
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: crime against him beyond a reasonable doubt. The only thing

551
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 1: that's happened so far is that there's been a preliminary

552
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: hearing where the burden is so low, just probable cause

553
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: to believe that a crime has occurred and that he

554
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: may possibly be involved with that crime. And at this point,

555
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: according to his attorney, the Chief Public Defender in Lancaster County,

556
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: the only images that the government have are blurry images

557
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: that show pixels and not any people. And there's no

558
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 1: way to prove from those photos or videos that it

559
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: was Stoltzfus in the video with Smoker. So charyon McCollum,

560
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: how do I prove she was in the car? Well,

561
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: I think what they're going to do again, They're going

562
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: to look at his cell phone in that data. And

563
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, when they interviewed him, he even admitted, yeah,

564
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: that looks like my car. The other thing is Nancy.

565
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: He has no alibi. So it's not like he was

566
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: visiting his own father that day. He wasn't at work,

567
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: he wasn't with other family or friends, he wasn't golfing,

568
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: he wasn't at church, he didn't check in anywhere with

569
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: his cellphone like Starbucks. The fact that he does not

570
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: have an alibi is very concerning for me as well.

571
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: I've got another break, and that is that the suspect

572
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: who has been arrested in her disappearance. We now believe

573
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: May has been a third cousin, once removed, translation a

574
00:38:53,880 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: distant relative that gives him a connection, although it's tenuous

575
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: to this girl. We wait as justice unfolds tipline one

576
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: eight hundred two two five five three two four. There

577
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: is a ten thousand dollars reward. Goodbye friend,