1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic production. I heart radio. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: When I joined, I didn't know anything about television. I 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: didn't even like it. My interview was with Fred who said, so, 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: what kind of music do you like? And I think 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: I said Bruce Springsteen. He said, well, you're wrong, and 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. And then about forty five minutes 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: later I left, not having said anything else. And the 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: next thing I know, they were like, look, this is 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: just a few of us. We're trying to get this 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: thing going. If you'd like to join, And it was 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: kind of like, how fast can I get out the 12 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: door of Conde Nas and jump on this thing? Whatever 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: it is? These people are crazy. I'm Bob Pittman and 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: welcome to Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: Hard to believe, but my last three guests have all 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: canceled at the last minute because of the flu. But 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: this week we're gonna give you another best of, and 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: the best of about creativity and managing for innovation. It's 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: from one of the original crew at MTV who later 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: became the chair and CEO of MTV Networks and Well, 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: by the way, she's also on the Amazon Board of Directors. 22 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: Judy McGrath Enjoy. Judy is an old old Palamine. We 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: started at MTV in those early days when we were 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: the twenties something crowd. She has done an awful lot. 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: She started in MTV and worked her way all the 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: way up to CEO of MTV Networks, which included Nickelodeon 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of other networks. She is a role model 28 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: for creatives, women and people from little small towns in Pennsylvania. 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: Also as a board member at Amazon, which has to 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: be a treat into itself. Judy is well known as 31 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: a magician and probably not as well known and not 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: appreciate as much as being a pretty good mathematician too. 33 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: You made some really hard business decisions as well. So 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: I want to jump into all that, But first I 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: want to do you in sixties seconds. Are you ready? Ready? 36 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: Do you prefer catch or dogs? Dogs, beetles or stones both? Oh? No, Okay, 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: Taylor or Kanye Kanye, East Coast or West Coast Coast, 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: MTV or v H one one early nineties. Ah, that's 39 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: pretty good. Okay, beavas or butt head Daria. Oh, that's 40 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: why you're creative. You're the off beat. Okay, favorite city, 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: New York Secret Talent piano plate. I didn't know that. 42 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: Would you eat for breakfast? Coffee? Coffee, coffee, and more coffee. 43 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: What would you eat for your last meal? Don't say coffee. 44 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: I would have a peanut butter sandwich with my daughter 45 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: and my husband's childhood hero, Believe it or not, Leonard Bernstein. 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to conduct an orchestra. Favorite TV show, The 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: Americans historical idol, one of the Bronte sisters, any of them? 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: I read, Jane, are twenty five times worst fat or 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: fashion trend you've participated in or that you saw an 50 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: MTV super big power shouldered jackets. You looked a great 51 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: at it. By the way, what did you want to 52 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: be when you were growing up? A reporter? What's one 53 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: food you'd never eat? Hua gras. What are you most 54 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: proud of early days of MTV? What are you listening to? 55 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: Our watching right now? Listening? Oh, listening? I love listening. 56 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: Oh you know slow Burn, a lot of the news ones, 57 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: the Daily Vox, Bob Pittman's podcast. Yeah, you know. I 58 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: still primarily listen to music, and that's my favorite thing. 59 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: That's cool. Let's jump into you. Scranton, Pennsylvania, Scranton, Pennsylvania, 60 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: small town. I went to college and still in Pennsylvania, Allentown, Pennsylvania, 61 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: so you couldn't get out of the state. What influence 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: did that have on you? You and I've talked about 63 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: parents before in the past, and you had some fabulous parents. 64 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: Tell me about how they influence you. My dad loved music, 65 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: and so growing up in a town like Scranton, let's 66 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: just say, the musical tastes were probably what you might 67 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: expect from that old time ethnicity. But my dad loved jazz, 68 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: and he played Duke Ellington and Earl Hines and Sara 69 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: Vaughan and all this great stuff all the time. And 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: he would hang over the you know, the little crappy 71 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: turntable and dropped the needle and have a cigarette. And 72 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: he grabbed me by my school uniform and say, listen 73 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: to this. Take the a train. And I would think 74 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: this is incomprehensible, speaks no sense to me, and I 75 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: have no idea what this is, but he's madly in 76 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: love with it. And so when I finally started bringing 77 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: music home, my music stones, you know the doors, the Beatles, 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: he wanted to listen with me, which I did not 79 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: want at all. But when I think about some of 80 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: the things he said, he thought, dare I say the 81 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: Beatles were pop crap? And that the Stones were blues, 82 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, and the Charlie Watts was a big band 83 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: drum right. It was a way to have relationship with him. 84 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: I remember thinking later he had a passion that was 85 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: separate from family and work, and I really wanted that 86 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: for myself. What really motivated me, though, was I had 87 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: a sense from reading like Crawdaddy and Rolling Stone and 88 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: listening to music that there was a tribe of people 89 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: somewhere that were my tribe and I couldn't find them 90 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: where I was. And if I could find them, and 91 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: if I could have a part of anything they were doing, 92 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: I would be all in. And to me, that was 93 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: like the dream was in New York City, which my parents, 94 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: friends and neighbors felt like I was moving to Moscow 95 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: or Brussels or someplace. It seemed like New York City. 96 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: It's impossible. You can't do that. No one does that. 97 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: So it sounds like you didn't have family connections, So 98 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: how on earth did you get the Conde nast. My 99 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: mother was like definitely a feminist before her time, and 100 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: it was like, go, go go, you can do what 101 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: you can do it. When I came to New York, 102 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: I thought I cannot walk into Conde Nast. I look 103 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: like I just fell off the cold truck. I mean, 104 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: this is I don't have the nerve. And she's like, 105 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: go in there, do it. You know something will happen 106 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: if it doesn't. Try again. She was one of these 107 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: people who always said perseverance is an underrated virtue, and 108 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: I think she was right about that. Interestingly, I did 109 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: not have a Double Wares product experience in Conde Nest 110 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: at all. I think I did a little bit of 111 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: research and I was a big magazine fan. Before I 112 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: get to Rolling Stone, my ultimate goal. I wonder if 113 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: I could possibly get in the door of one of 114 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: these magazines. Is there anyway? So I made this dummy magazine. 115 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: I went in and I went into personnel as they 116 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: called it in those days, and this very nice older 117 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: woman really did not want to deal with me, and 118 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: she said, well, there's a copy test for a magazine 119 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: called Mademoiselle that you can take. And I said, would 120 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: you mind telling me what the compensation is? Since I 121 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: just literally got off the bus and she said, dere 122 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: you need to ask that question. You can't afford to 123 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: work here. I went home, I took the copy test, 124 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: I passed, and I walked through the doors and thought, wow, 125 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: you could literally tell who worked at which magazine by 126 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: what they were wearing, eating, saying, drinking and where they 127 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: were clubbing. And you could pick all that up just 128 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: from the lobby. So Mademoiselle, which is no more, it 129 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: was kind of the smart girl magazine at the time. 130 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: You know, fran Leebowitz was a columnist, and some of 131 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: the early sort of the pre Martha Steward people, Mary 132 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: and were laying and there were just tons of people there. 133 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: I made some of the best friends in my life there, 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: who eventually led me to you and MTV. And I 135 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: got in there and I just would stay up till 136 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: four in the morning writing and rewriting these ridiculous things 137 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: like women who love men who hate women and why 138 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: and models, party tips and whatever it was. I just 139 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: gave it my all. I was so thrilled to be there, 140 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: and I think I sucked up everything. And what I 141 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: also observed was brand. I mean, those magazines have very 142 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: clearly defined brands and do not veer off that path. 143 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: Alexander Lieberman would come in and look at a display 144 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: and say, that's not bog, that's not Glamour, that's not Mademoiselle, 145 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: and he would be right. And it was that thing 146 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: of learning about what is it that makes this thing 147 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: important to somebody? What is it that defines this versus 148 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: everything else. You have a story about one of the 149 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: editors that you said you wrote something and basically she said, yes, 150 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: that won't do. That's one of my favorite stories that 151 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: you've ever told. Well, I had a wonderful editor, Karen Andrew. 152 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: I get Mademoiselle. I killed myself writing something and she 153 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: called me in and she said this is really not good. 154 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: And I was devastated. I mean, I thought, oh my god, 155 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: I've spent my whole life trying to get a foot 156 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: in this door. And then she said, you know, I 157 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: think you can do this, but this is really it. 158 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: So I'm going to show you how to construct something good, 159 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: and I'm going to give you one chance to go 160 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: back and do that, and then we'll take a look 161 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: and if it's not good, we're going to have a 162 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: very different conversation. So here's what a headline is. Here's 163 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: what a grabby is. Here's what you know. The middle 164 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: of the story is supposed to be tell him what 165 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna tell him? Well, ballot, So I went back. 166 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: I thought about her very clear, very architectural, if you will, feedback, 167 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: and also the fact that she said, I think you 168 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: can do this, but I'm not sure. And um, when 169 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: I turned it in the rewritch, I didn't hear from her. 170 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: And then she came out and said, it's it's really good. 171 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: It's very good. You got it. Wow. You know, Harvard 172 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: Business Review just had a story which we sent around 173 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: in the office about innovation and company culture and how 174 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: you innovate. I thought of the story actually which I 175 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: brought it up, and one of the things that pointed 176 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: out he said that actually candor works, not niceness. She 177 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: was very direct, and you know it was candor. The 178 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: best favor someone can do for you is just tell 179 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: you that. It felt like a real jolt. In contrast, 180 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: I worked at Glamor for a while, which was a 181 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: great magazine. I worked for an editor who would you 182 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: turn something in, she would rewrite it all over it 183 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: and send it out to you via assistant, demoralizing learned nothing, 184 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: start to think like, why don't you just write it yourself, 185 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, like a Braddy twenty something would, But you know, 186 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: the candor the directness. I appreciate it. You've always been 187 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: a great coach, and you've been thought of as a 188 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: great coach, especially for creative people. Did it come from this? 189 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: Did you take that lesson with you? I think I 190 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: definitely took that lesson with me. I don't think I'm 191 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: quite as candid as Karen was, But a creative person 192 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: does need guardrails and does like some sort of directional feedback. 193 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: They don't just want to rubber stamp, even if they 194 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: think they do. I thought about a few things. I 195 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: mean that the beauty and the wonder of MTV was 196 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: that it was really filled with people that I thought 197 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: it could not find gainful employment anywhere else. It would 198 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: be somebody who had never really shot anything and just 199 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: wanted to get their hands on of came and try it. 200 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: And we were willing to do that, but we were 201 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: willing to do it against a set of promises we 202 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: were making to the fans, to the audience, to the viewers, 203 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: to the consumers, to the users. So I would say absolutely, 204 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: but remember, don't fall in love with your own idea. 205 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: This is about someone else, not you. This is about 206 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: the person on the other side. Who are they, Who 207 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: are you trying to communicate with? What's different about them 208 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: today than yesterday? They're like you. But you can't make 209 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: this just for you. And there are really no other 210 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: rules aside from you know, no full frontal nudity. Go 211 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: out there and do it. And it was so much 212 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: fun to have the freedom to meet people who were 213 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: far more creative than I was. I began to see 214 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: I was sort of a better editor code than I 215 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: was a player. So many great people got opportunity through 216 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: that company, Quirky people like Marcy Braffman, who was there 217 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: when I got there, People like John Sykes who could 218 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: step out there and ask anybody to do anything, you know, 219 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: and just make you want to join the party. And 220 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: you know, Ted Demi and Mark Palin's and all these 221 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: great people coming in. Fred Cybert here sorry, he was 222 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: the person who invented the graphic look of MTV. He 223 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: came from radio. He was the promotion director to a 224 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: radio station and he was in charge of the visual 225 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: well exactly. And I think we were so snotty that 226 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, I don't want to hire anybody 227 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: who worked at an advertising agency or a television network 228 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: or magazine. I mean, when I joined, I didn't know 229 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: anything about television. I didn't even like it. My interview 230 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: was with Fred, who said, so, what kind of music 231 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: do you like? And I think I said Bruce Springsteen, 232 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. He said, well, you're wrong, and I'll 233 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: tell you why. And then about forty five minutes later, 234 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: I left, not having said anything else. And the next 235 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: thing I know, they were like, well, you know, look, 236 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: this is just a few of us were trying to 237 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: get this thing going if you'd like to join, And 238 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: it was kind of like, how fast can I get 239 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: out the door of Conde Nass and jump on this thing, 240 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: whatever it is? How did you get over? I had 241 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: some friends who came to work for you. They said, well, 242 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: they're starting this thing. It's going to be music on 243 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: television and it's I don't even know what it is. 244 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: It's three minute clips. And when I think about it now, 245 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: I I had another Conde Nass moment that was also instructive. 246 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: So many people at Conde Nast were opposed to it. 247 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: It was like I was telling them I was joining 248 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: the circus or something. If I had said I was. 249 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: If I said, well, I'm gonna be Diane Sawyer's p 250 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: A or something like that, I think they would have 251 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: felt they were like cable television music video clips. If 252 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: you stayed here for twenty five years, you could be 253 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: managing editor. I think I'm not even thinking about that. 254 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: So I thought, well, if this many people think it's 255 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: a bad idea, I'm definitely gonna do it. I mean, 256 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: it has to be a good idea. You know. I've 257 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: just found the camaraderie and the purpose and the sheer 258 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: invention of something that didn't exist, so irresistible. And again 259 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: on the math side of it, I was saying, I 260 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: mean this with all sincerity. You had a map in 261 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: the creative group. You had a plan, and the plan 262 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: were promises, and I loved that. I am making a 263 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: promise to you. If you sit here, I'm going to 264 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: deliver something that you've been waiting for. It is the 265 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: first music television network. It is exactly for you. And 266 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: I thought, wow, I want my m t V. It's 267 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: not distributed in Manhattan. I have no idea what it is, 268 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: but those are powerful words. My in it in an 269 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: era before social media and social engagement. Something for me 270 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: that felt like mine and want what a powerful word, right, 271 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: I want my MTV. I took that very seriously. I 272 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: took those promises to heart. Twenty four hours a day 273 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: terrific in stereo? Not really, but you know, hey, it's 274 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: Mark sounded it sounded good for those ten people who 275 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: did have stereot I remember you saying to me, we 276 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,479 Speaker 1: want people to think it sounds better than regular television, 277 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: and they did. It just felt to me like if 278 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: I could marry all the things I'm interested in with 279 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: these set of principles and join this crazy band of 280 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: people who have no right and a lot of audacity 281 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: in a firm belief that this can work, I mean, 282 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: what a gift. I never looked back, not one second. 283 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: You know, we used to say back then that all 284 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: of us were doing jobs we had never done before. Yes, 285 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: so we didn't really know what we weren't supposed to do. 286 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: I saw some interview a year or so ago with 287 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, and the essence of it was he didn't 288 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: value experience at all. He valued vision, smarts, etcetera. And 289 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: and I thought about it, actually said, you know, in 290 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: those days, we were the twenties something crowd. You and 291 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: I are the same age with not twenty something anymore, unfortunately, 292 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: but we didn't value experience. A matter of fact, people 293 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: had experience, we thought that was some excuse for them 294 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: trying to be relevant, and it was a negative. Well, 295 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: now we're at this age where we are full of 296 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: experience and maybe not the share creativity who once had. 297 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: Do you think experience has a role that we didn't 298 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: appreciate when we were in your twenties. It's hard to 299 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: answer that question without stepping outside yourself. You know, as 300 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: I said, like you, I never wanted to be away 301 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: from young adult culture, and even if I felt like 302 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: a vampire at times, I thought, you know, I need 303 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: to be near this. And as I've spent time around 304 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: subsequent generations from hours, I thought, oh my god, they 305 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: are so much more equipped than we were two change 306 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: the world. I mean, there's so many more tools, so 307 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: much data that we never had. There's so many wonderful 308 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: things about who they are. And at the same time, 309 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: there's some things about our unconventional experience. I mean, let's 310 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: face it, we're experienced, but we're not exactly you know, 311 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: we didn't work at IBM. We didn't work at IBM. 312 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I can still. I have nieces 313 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: and nephews who look at me and they're like, you 314 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: know who post malone is? They assume I do, and 315 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: I do, but do my friends? Now? You know, we 316 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: had such a great period of being able to be 317 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: young and inexperienced and devoted and into it before I 318 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: feel like I'm looking at some of these smaller companies 319 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: they start building corporate over structures. And I was just 320 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: talking to a group. I said, so, what's your like mission, 321 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: what's your vision? And they said mobile first, and I thought, okay, 322 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: I mean yes, but what isn't really that doesn't make 323 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: me want to get up in the morning and everything 324 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: is that to me? It's like, yes, but what is 325 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: it about you? What do you know about that person 326 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: who's going to share what you do today or listen 327 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: or care or what is it about you? I started 328 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: to think that my style was out of style or 329 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: your style, you know that creatively, lad anything was out 330 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: of style, that it was really only about left brain, 331 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: it was only about math for a minute. But the 332 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: truth is now you can have an incredible marriage of 333 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: both even more than we were able to. And let's 334 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: face it, one of the things that I admired and 335 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: valued in MTV was research. But it wasn't focus groups. 336 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: It was what's going on in your life that influences 337 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: you and makes you who you are and determines what 338 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: you like. It was like qualitative research. Right, there's as 339 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: much data as we could get about who loves MTV, 340 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: who might like it, who could love it some more. 341 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: So that was important. That was very important, but it's 342 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: not the only thing, and it can't be the dominant thing, 343 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: you know. We did do a concept test of MTV, 344 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: if you remember, the board of directors did not want 345 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: to do this idea. So I had this idea that 346 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: we would get a polster to do a concept test, 347 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: and it came back really great, like I like that, 348 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: I'd listen to that or watch that channel, And we 349 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: used that in the board presentation and finally the board 350 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: didn't say yes. Steve were also around Warners and Jim 351 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: Robinson run American Express had to getting room and say yes. 352 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: But I do think that a little bit of research 353 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 1: made them feel better than a bunch of twenty year 354 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: old saying, hey, we got a great idea here, let 355 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: us at it. Someone was talking to me about the 356 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: incredible data Netflix and the fact that they used data 357 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: for casting and everything else, and I said, yes, I 358 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: think that is fantastic. I wish I had had it. 359 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: It's incredible. But I still believe there's somebody at Netflix 360 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: who read a script from the Duffer Brothers for Stranger Things. 361 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: They stuck their finger up and read the Zeitgeist and said, 362 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: there's some Spieldbergie in nineties kind of retro thing going on. 363 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: They hit pay dirt with Millie Bobby Brown, they brought 364 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: one own a rider back. They mixed up the stew 365 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: of things, and the data alone will not lead you 366 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: to that. So you need some people in the mix 367 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: who can also just read tea leaves and take a chance. 368 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: We're all looking for things that connect and work and hit, 369 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: and most of them don't. But that part of it 370 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: is I think essential in the mix too well. I 371 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: think that's sort of the heart of you know me, 372 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: I've used math and magic since I was in my twenties. 373 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: That the research tells us what the people are like, 374 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: where they're living, what their attitudes are present, tell us 375 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: what to do to excite them. Research is not policy making, 376 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: and I think we shared that way back when it's okay, 377 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: Now I got a picture for these parts. I got 378 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: a great idea. Let's do the last weekend with Van Halen. 379 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: Let's paint that house paint and get John Mellencamp to 380 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: to you know, give it away. Um. And I remember 381 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: listening to one of the writers sitting there one day saying, 382 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: I hate my miserable life. And we made it a contest. 383 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: If you hate your miserable life, sign up here, sign 384 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: up here, and we'll change it. Just hold on a second, 385 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: because we've got so much more to talk about. We'll 386 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: be back after a quick break. Welcome back to Matthew Magic. 387 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: We're here with Judy mcgram. We were talking about creatives 388 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: running companies. You're one of the few creatives that ran 389 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: a very big company. How do you think a company 390 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: differs when a creative runs the company than one of 391 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: the business people run the company, or the lawyer or 392 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: the accountant or the salesperson. You know, I was stuck 393 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: in a flight once with Jerry Labourne, who you know. 394 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: Queen Mother got us genius Bickelodeon and she said, you know, Judy, 395 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: you will never really be terrific at this until you 396 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: learn to look at business as creatively as you look 397 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: at creative And I really thought about that, you know, 398 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: and I set out to learn how to love a piano. 399 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: The business people in all of our companies are not 400 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: typical business people either. You know, there's creative thinking and everything. 401 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: I really do believe that I'm not one of those 402 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: people that thinks of creativities for the precious few. But 403 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: as I grew up through the ranks and I left 404 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: just managing all those wonderful, incredible creative people that I loved, 405 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: and I started to learn to fall in love with 406 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: Comedy Central and Nickelodeon, and you know, got the chance 407 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: to help create a safe and wonderful place for Jon 408 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: Stewart and you know, Dave Chappelle and John Oliver and 409 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: Colbert and all those great people. I started to think like, 410 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: my job now is to sort of protect and defend 411 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: the ability to create and innovate and take chances on people. 412 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: The business has to be sound, you know, the business 413 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: has to work. And I also always believed in know 414 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: your audience. So if I'm speaking to someone who's going 415 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: to be making a business decision. I need to be 416 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: able to speak to them in their language and not 417 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: in any way that sort of undermines or undercuts or 418 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: makes it sound like I don't understand what they need 419 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: to do as well. So I really came to wake 420 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: up one day and realize I really enjoy being the 421 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: business leader this company. Now too, were seduced. Yeah, we 422 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: were seduced. We were seduced. Although I did have a 423 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: funny moment. I remember saying to somebody, you know, God, 424 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: we really should get on the train and go to 425 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: Philadelphia and like sit down with Briant and say thank you. 426 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: And they were like, what, I'm not going to Philadelphia 427 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: and getting on a train and doing a sort of 428 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: like no, you're missing the point though. I mean they're 429 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: in this with us, right, you know, and they're funding us. 430 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: They're part of the mix. I value his view. I've 431 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: been around him, I've seen it. So I started to 432 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: see the creativity and value in the joy and trying 433 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: to figure out a business and make a business work. Obviously, 434 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: media is going through some heavy hard times. What isn't 435 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: It's battered around. It's crazy because ever thus, but I 436 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: think everybody who works someplace feels good when the business 437 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: is working. So you're trying to get shows on the area, 438 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: you're trying to make programming changes. You know, the tension. 439 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: You've got a seller sales head that says we need 440 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: this kind of programming because that's what advertisers want. Or 441 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: somebody says I've got this great show and the sales 442 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: head goes, that's terrible. No one wants that. What do 443 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: you do? I ran into this frequently, like, you know, 444 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: we can't sell south Park like guys, guys, you're not 445 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: selling south Park. You're selling like young men and young 446 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: women and a cultural phenomenon. They love this. They flock 447 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: to it. They it is the perfect commentary on the 448 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: times we live and it's so genius. You would be 449 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: so lucky to be near this. It's not about what 450 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: you're going to be afraid of in south Park. It's 451 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: going to be like, you want to talk to the 452 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: people who love south Park. I know you do, and 453 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: we've got them, and we love south Park. We'll love 454 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: it for you, but I can convince you that this 455 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: is exactly where you want to be, you know. And 456 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: at the same time, when Jon Stewart was really rolling 457 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: and every now and then somebody would say, oh God, 458 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: does he have to talk to the Iranian physicists talking 459 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: about nuclear and like leave him alone. Let him talk 460 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: to whomever he wants to talk to. He's curating this show. 461 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: We're on a journey with him. I don't need another 462 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: person to talk to the celebrity of the day. You know, 463 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: there's lots of that defend the talent and help the 464 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: sales organization or the clients see that what you really 465 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: want is a relationship with the fan, and the fan 466 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: is coming in through this door, and you want to 467 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: be near that door. You don't want to shut that door. 468 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: And how often did you have to go meet with client? 469 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: I did a lot of that, But you know the 470 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: problem with taking me on a client trip was, you know, 471 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: there were a multitude of issues sometimes. I mean there 472 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: was al I only like to travel, which is ridiculous. 473 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: I missed so much. Just a great, great guy. And 474 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: he invited me to lunch with a client for Taco 475 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: bell and during the lunch I said, you know, I'm 476 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: really curious, like what's your Facebook strategy? And he kicked 477 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: me so hard under the table I thought I was 478 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: never gonna walk again. Because in his view, he didn't 479 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge there was anything else. I mean, like, 480 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is about selling empty And she said, 481 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, I still believe I saw more tacos to 482 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: people who were watching like Comedy Central and MTV. But 483 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I'm thinking about face And I thought, well, 484 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: this is like, this is acknowledging. I know that. You know, 485 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: there's lots of other things in the world. We're all 486 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: in the same media business. What are you thinking? What 487 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: are you doing? So, depending on the client, I would 488 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: be either a good date for the uh, you know, 489 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: they'd say, well, you did a great sale for Facebook, 490 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: thank you, we won't need to see you again. So 491 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: let me jump a little bit. You're a role model 492 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, especially creatives always, but you've 493 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: been a great role model for women. If you think 494 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: about it, in the days of MTV, we're probably looking 495 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: back at an extraordinary number of women and very important roles. 496 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: Today would be growing about it probably, you know, whether 497 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: you like it or not, you have been mentoring people, 498 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: You've been setting an example. How do you handle that responsibility? 499 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: What do you do consciously about that? You know, I 500 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: can remember some things that just felt like personal milestones 501 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: to me. I remember when year sitting, you know, one 502 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: of the great fun things I got to do would 503 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: be hanging out in the rehearsals for the Video Music Awards, 504 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 1: And I was sitting there and I was thinking, Wow, 505 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: you know, we've got a female director, we have a 506 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: female on stage managing the crew. We have a young 507 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: woman who's the head writer. We have a young woman 508 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: in charge of seating and events. But we've got women 509 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: in roles that were not traditionally women's roles. They were 510 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: just really good. And I do think it's incumbent on 511 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: somebody who gets an opportunity, like I got to look 512 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: out for underrepresented people in general. And so you know, 513 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: when Beth McCarthy Miller raised her hand, was an easy like, 514 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: let's let Beth direct, come on, like, she can do it. 515 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: We know she can do it. Everybody knows she can 516 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: do it. And I looked around and thought, wow, this 517 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: whole thing is kind of really looking very different than 518 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: most of the other sets that I've been on. And 519 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: you know, I always felt like I worked with men 520 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: who are not like typical and young employees who are 521 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: not typical. So how ridiculous would it be to take 522 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: a typical approach to anything else. We were up ending 523 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: tradition all the time, and not just for the sake 524 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: of doing it, but because you get give somebody a chance, 525 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: they'll knock themselves out to show you that they could 526 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: really do it. And we actually talked about it back then. 527 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: We said, you know, if somebody has done three or 528 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: four things and they're not great, we have empirical evidence 529 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: they won't be great. But if we give somebody a 530 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: shot who's never done it, they could be the next 531 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg exactly. And the only we're gonna find out 532 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: is to take a shot. And you continue to do 533 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: that through your career. I'm most drawn to it. It's 534 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: what happened to me and I still feel it. At 535 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: lunch with a kid yesterday, I thought, oh my god, 536 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: I would hire this kid tomorrow. He's been teaching a 537 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: knife throwing class, but we might be doing improv. But 538 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: it was it was like he wants to be an 539 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: agent or something. I'm like, why not worse? You know, 540 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: so now they were not twenty something and you've got 541 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: experience under your belt. What are the two things that 542 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: you wish someone had told you about getting old. Oh god, well, 543 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: let's see, in spite of how old you may be, 544 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: if your heart and soul are young and youthful, don't 545 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: shy away from it and at the same time own 546 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: your experience and find a way to share it when 547 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: asked or even when not. Sitting next to young guy 548 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: who's running a company and he was looking at a 549 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: piece of piece of media and he said, that's boring. 550 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: That was it. And I watched the kid who had 551 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: showed it to and looked deflated. So I said, you know, 552 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: that's not really actionable advice my first editor who said 553 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: this is what a headline is. You could say, you know, 554 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: it drags in the middle, Like if I were you, 555 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: I would move this piece to the back. You could 556 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: try that, or you take it and go back and 557 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: think about where do you think it's slow and then 558 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: come back and show me. But this quick kind of 559 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: like just dismissive is not going to get you really 560 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: where you want to go, and he's just going to 561 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: think you're a jerk, and I give up. Okay, So 562 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: let's jump to you've always done good, rock the vote 563 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: jus or lose AIDS awareness. How did you think about 564 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: that inside of a company, and how do you think 565 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: of it for you as a as a person, Well, 566 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, inside MTV it was very interesting. I once 567 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: heard Tina Fey say something about it was a panel 568 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: where a bunch of women were sort of congratulating each 569 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: other for different things, and someone said they were lucky, 570 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: and a bunch of other women jumped on her and said, 571 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: oh my god. Women always say they're lucky. Men never 572 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: say they're lucky. You made your own luck. And Tina 573 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: was actually very thoughtful about it, and she said, I 574 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: think timing plays a role in something as well as 575 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: luck and talent. So when we decided to get into, 576 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, certainly Rock the Vote was not our idea. 577 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: Politics Jeff are off. So Jeff was very passionate about this, 578 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: and it's sort of grewing to Rock the Vote. And 579 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: I remember talking to Tom Preston, with whom I had 580 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: an extraordinarily great creative relationship, and this was one of 581 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: the rare instances where we had a blowout. Really we 582 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: really didn't agree, but I listened to what he said. 583 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: He said, this is a terrible idea. It's not gonna work. 584 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: This is an entertainment brand. Nobody cares about this. We're 585 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: gonna get laughed out of town. We do not have 586 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: permission to do this. There's nothing about us that says 587 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: we should be stepping anywhere near an election or voting 588 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: or any of this. So I went back and I 589 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: thought about it a little bit, and I thought, Okay, 590 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: this is where I come into the picture. I think 591 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: I grew up in an era where I thought music. 592 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: One of the many things I loved about music was 593 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: its social commentary, and it is about the times we 594 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: live in, and it is about every ing, and it's 595 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: about all the things that affect you in a very 596 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: deep way. And I thought, I think there's a way 597 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: to do this where it will be engaging. This was 598 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: not about telling young people you need to vote. That's 599 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: not the way I looked at it at all. It 600 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: was saying to people who make big decisions in this country, 601 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: this is a generation that is disengaged from you, and 602 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: you need to address them on their turf, their way, 603 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: and we'll invite you to do that. That's your shot. 604 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't about trying to be parental or any of 605 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff to them, or give them boring 606 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: facts or anything like that, and so we got as 607 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: smart as we could get. And I think I didn't 608 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: tell anybody. That's another thing. I sent Tabatha store and 609 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 1: Tabitha went to New Hampshire and she called me at 610 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: like midnight she said, you know, I got up here 611 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: in like a bunch of candidates are like, what's MTV? 612 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: And she said, and then a couple of them like 613 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: got back off the bus, primarily Bill Clinton, and said 614 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: I'll talk to you. And then we were sort of 615 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: off and running. And you know that partnered with incredible 616 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: creative work on those rock the Vote spots, I mean 617 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: Madonna wrapped in a flag, and then fast forward to 618 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna throw an inaugural ball that's not official, 619 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: and see if anybody comes to the party, and our 620 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: em is gonna play and and Vogue is gonna play. 621 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: We tried to make it as spirited as MTV, but 622 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: add a little bit of gravitas, if you will, and 623 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: meaning you know, like you do matter. You are young, 624 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: but you matter, and you deserve to be heard and 625 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: listen to, and we're going to help you. Well, it's 626 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: still held up is the example of the best way 627 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: to do it. So he did did a great job 628 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: with it, Judy, and it was fun. It was well 629 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: it shows too. So let me jump to CEO MTV 630 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: Networks board member Amazon. How do you contrast and compare 631 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: those two roles. To have it front row seat at 632 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: two phenomena in your lifetime is incredible, So I would 633 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: start there. But m WORD members are not operators, and 634 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: that's a hard thing to learn, you know. The tendency 635 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: to want to lean in and get it in is 636 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: very real. You're supposed to take the long view all 637 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: the time. And one of the things I love about Amazon, 638 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: which is very much like we were, is that they are, 639 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: as we all know, relentlessly customer focused, and they have 640 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: a list of tenants and principles and they live by 641 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: them and it is customer, customer, customer. And another one 642 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: I like is day one. They want you to feel 643 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: like this is the first day. This is a new idea. 644 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: What can we do today? It's different than what we 645 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: did yesterday, hence ALEXA, you know. So I find their 646 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: spirit of what can we invent is a major part 647 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: of their DNA and it moves fast, So in that 648 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: regard I relate very much to it. I think I'm 649 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: the sort of media person among the my colleagues. It's 650 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: a very small board. It's run in some unique ways. 651 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's read this book and we're all going to 652 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 1: discuss it and see how this doesn't happen here. Two. 653 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: You know, everything they do they write as a paper 654 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,959 Speaker 1: that you have to think about, and when you get 655 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: there to no power point, it's like, Okay, any questions, 656 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: let's get into it. So it's a culture that is 657 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: familiar to me from the media business, which is like, 658 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: let's get into it already, let's talk about it. Let's 659 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: like figure out what it is and at the same 660 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: time take the long view, you know, think about the customer. 661 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: There's an incredible guy in the board who I love 662 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: really very much, who runs the Cornell Tech Center. So 663 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: he's immersed, steeped, you knows everything about this kind of thing, 664 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: and he's trying to put humanities in tech together and 665 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,479 Speaker 1: talk about ethics in one meeting. So I sometimes feel 666 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: like I'm speaking from a different elexa than the rest 667 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: through he said, you know, I really agree with Judy 668 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: and one thing value of talent scientists, technologists, adventures are talent. 669 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: They want to know that you are hearing their idea, 670 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: and you like their idea, and you're going to help 671 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: them nurture and foster their idea. So as much as 672 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: talent attraction to me was everything coming up through MTV 673 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: and Comedy Central Nickelodeon, talent is everything there as well. 674 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's like, you want the best people, and 675 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: those people need to think that you understand them as talent. 676 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: They're really no different at the end of the day 677 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: than the original VJs. You know, our talent or the 678 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: musicians who absolutely incredibly, crazily love what they're doing. They 679 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: need to know that you understand that you value it. 680 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: And I think that's very much a part of why, 681 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: in spite of whatever you want to think or debate 682 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: about it, Amazon continues to just flourish, constant invention, reinvention, 683 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: focus on the best talent, focus on the best ideas, 684 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: make it easy for them to do it, give them 685 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: what they need to do it. I'm not afraid to 686 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: make mistakes, No, absolutely not. In fact, essential I think 687 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: we weren't either. There were so many. I mean, they 688 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: even make lists of stuff that didn't work and they say, hey, 689 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: you know it's okay, we'll move that team over here 690 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: and try something else. The worst thing is to not try. 691 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: So jumping off point Alexa smart speakers, audio podcast, sort 692 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 1: of the new audio renaissance. What do you think about it? 693 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: It was another one of those things. Dare I say, 694 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: like MTV when you think like, oh my god, Yeah, 695 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: that's what I was waiting for. You know, someone who 696 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: can play music for me and give me the weather 697 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: and the news, and is a voice and can talk 698 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: to me. I think it takes into account a lot 699 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: of the things we've been talking about. What makes somebody's 700 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: life easier, what makes it more fun, what helps connect 701 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: you to the stuff you want. Goes back to the 702 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: most basic thing radio, the sound of a voice in 703 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: the wilderness. That is the most human connection. So I 704 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: think all those smart devices are really tapping into some 705 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: basic human needs. We'll take our appreciation back to Amazon. 706 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: Everyone in the audio thinks Amazon has been a game 707 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: changer for us. It's the new clock radio of households. 708 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: Used to have a clock radio. Now it's but who cares? 709 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: Now there's Amazon, Now there's Alexa. We've got to the 710 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: clock radio back. We talked about contrarians, we talked about outsiders, 711 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: and we were early outsiders. I think the whole MTV 712 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: crew was, But today it seems like with all the startups, 713 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: everybody's an outsider, so hard to find the insiders. If 714 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: you want to be an insider, how the hell do 715 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: you get those skills? Where do you go? The beauty 716 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: of media today, whether it's a podcast or head talk 717 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: or whatever. You can dial up and teach yourself how 718 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 1: to do photoshop, or listen to Warren Buffett, or go 719 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: international and find someone who might have some wisdom that 720 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: comes from something completely different that can inform your thinking. 721 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: It's almost your responsibility. You can say, I'm not just 722 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: gonna listen to slow Burn. I'm going to try something 723 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: completely different and see what I take out of that, 724 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: and it can help inform your idea and make it 725 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: more likely to succeed, I would say. And yet I 726 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: still find that I loved the era of magazine writers 727 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: who I thought really knew something I didn't know and 728 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: could tell me a story in a way that I 729 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: couldn't tell it. And I still search for those voices 730 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: and those people, and I think there are lots of 731 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: them out there. So I think you have to search 732 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: out your own contrarians. So let me jump one more place. 733 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: We're in a world of this incredibly fragmented information, entertainment 734 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: everything for everybody. We ever build another cable network, is 735 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: there any audience out there that's unserved? Anybody looking for 736 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: a linear TV channel? You know? That is really one 737 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: of the That is one of the questions, seems to me. 738 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: When you can have everything, you start to want something's 739 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 1: curated for you. There's a reason why rap caviare hit 740 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: everybody like a lightning. You know what I mean when 741 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: you think about radio has been around forever. When you 742 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: first said I heart radio, I was thinking, like I 743 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: heart radio, and then I started to think about like 744 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: I do love radio. I do heart radio. You know, 745 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: I want someone to help me find my way through 746 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: all of this stuff. I still believe there's a rule 747 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: for somebody to curate for me this massive sea of 748 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: choice and help me navigate, while I also have the 749 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: freedom to discover on my own. So that's why you 750 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: begin to trust brands, you know, Like I trust an 751 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: event on iHeart Radio. I trust it's gonna have the 752 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,800 Speaker 1: zeitgeist in mind. I trust when I look for something 753 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: on Netflix or Amazon Prime or Hulu that there's gonna 754 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: be something in there. They know that I like Handmaid's Tale, 755 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: and they do. They're gonna find something for me. So 756 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: is there going to be another single point of entry? 757 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: I mean, look, we grew up in an era where 758 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 1: everybody was arguing about Vietnam. Now it's like there's so 759 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: many different things to debate it can be overwhelming. So 760 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: I still look to the curators and I still think 761 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: there's probably room for an idea that none of us 762 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: have thought of yet, and we're all gonna go like, 763 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: oh my god, why didn't we think of that? Okay, 764 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 1: so we're gonna end it back on Mathew Magic. Best mathematician, 765 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, I would say my friend Dan who started 766 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: the croneal Tech Center. Best magician, you know, not counting you, 767 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: you know, I still have to give it up to 768 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 1: early MTV, you, Tom Bob, and pretty much any musician 769 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 1: it's a magician. Thanks Judy, Thank you always fun. Here's 770 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: a couple of things I take away from this episode 771 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: with Judy. It might be easier to just fix your 772 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: employees work yourself, but if you want them to grow, 773 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: take the time to teach them. It will benefit you 774 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: down the line. When advertisers are skittish of being associated 775 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: with certain content. Show them the relationship they want is 776 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,800 Speaker 1: not with the content, but with the fan who likes 777 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 1: the content. And finally, if you want your business to 778 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: up end the traditional don't hire typical people. Judy is 779 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: looking at hiring Knife Thrones. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. 780 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: That's it today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to 781 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. The 782 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue 783 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,320 Speaker 1: Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is 784 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: no small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research bill plaques, and 785 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: Michael Azar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, 786 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and 787 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until 788 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:26,239 Speaker 1: next time,