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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back to the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 1: Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: we actually got on the other side of Memorial Day.

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Speaker 1: That means we are one third of the way through

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Speaker 1: the baseball season.

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Speaker 3: Imagine that, right, I mean, and the thing I always

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Speaker 3: felt in a baseball season would always start out slowly.

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Speaker 3: Spring training was slow time. At the end of spring training,

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Speaker 3: slow time at the beginning of the season, slow time.

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Speaker 3: You get a couple of rainouts, they give you days

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Speaker 3: off that you don't need, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: It was slow time. Then all of a sudden, man,

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Speaker 3: it'll just like shift gears. It goes first to second,

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Speaker 3: the third, fourth, before you know, you're in fifth, sixth gear,

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Speaker 3: and it goes it goes fast, and so that's what's happening.

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Speaker 3: It's going to keep going more quickly, and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, you before you know, it's going to be

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Speaker 3: September and it's October. But it's weird. It goes from

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Speaker 3: slow time to fast time like the snap of the fingers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Sparky Anderson who used to say it

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Speaker 1: takes sixty games to really know what you have in

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Speaker 1: terms of separating contenders from pretenders. First month of the

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Speaker 1: season is always a little bit sketchy a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: weather gets involved, off days, whatever. Two months now, I

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Speaker 1: think we know pretty much where the good teams are

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Speaker 1: and maybe the surprise teams like the Kansas City Royals

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Speaker 1: and Cleveland Guardians. We're going to get into some of

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Speaker 1: those teams, and what's happening with the Atlanta Braves with

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Speaker 1: Ronald Ucunya out as well.

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Speaker 2: But Joe, I know one of.

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Speaker 1: Your favorite subjects besides rock and roll and classic rock

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about and cars is umpires. We're going to

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Speaker 1: get into umpires later on, but first I got to

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Speaker 1: ask you about Craig Council going back to Milwaukee. Remember,

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Speaker 1: he was a free agent after last season with Milwaukee,

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Speaker 1: signed a huge deal with the Chicago Cubs. He goes

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Speaker 1: back to Milwaukee for the first time as Cubs manager

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Speaker 1: on Memorial Day and he gets booed. I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: first of all, the day that he signed with the Cubs,

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Speaker 1: somebody defaced a sign with profanity Craig Council field at

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Speaker 1: a little league field in his hometown of Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Come on, people, and it was probably just one person

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Speaker 1: who did it, but that's just awful. And then booing

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Speaker 1: the guy because I guess he had the audacity to

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Speaker 1: take a better deal from a team that valued him

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Speaker 1: more than the Milwaukee Brewers. You know, listen, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was wrong. I thought the Brewers did the right thing.

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Speaker 1: They had a video tribute to Counts on the board.

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Speaker 1: But for the fans to boo Craig Counsel and I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of times these days, Joe fans think

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Speaker 1: it's cool to boo, like, isn't that funny We're going

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Speaker 1: to boot somebody? And he played a type cast, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. But this is Milwaukee. It's Craig Counsel who

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Speaker 1: seemingly every year had this low revenue team fighting for

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Speaker 1: a playoffs spot and in the playoffs, and he gets

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Speaker 1: booed for what reason. I don't get it. Not a

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Speaker 1: good job by the Milwaukee fan base.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets built up over probably a week or

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Speaker 3: ten days, or maybe a little bit longer than that.

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Speaker 3: A lot of it has to do with social media

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Speaker 3: and media in general, where people that can't make up

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Speaker 3: their minds for themselves decidled this will be fun, it'll

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Speaker 3: be cool to boo this guy, and then he gains momentum,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, here comes the day and

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Speaker 3: they boo him. I went through something similar, but I

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Speaker 3: did not have that kind of a fan base when

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Speaker 3: I left Tampa Bay to go to the Cubs. Going

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Speaker 3: back to Tampa Bay, I don't think I remember getting booed.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember that specifically. It's just becoming more and

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Speaker 3: more prominent. Everybody needs to be booed, everybody needs to

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Speaker 3: be fired where things don't go well. It's the garnering

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Speaker 3: of a momentum. And I really do believe social media

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Speaker 3: has a lot to do with this, because a lot

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Speaker 3: of people just can't think for themselves anywhere. They have

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Speaker 3: to be part of group think. We're at that point

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Speaker 3: now where everything deserves retribution in some way. I cannot

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Speaker 3: disagree with that more. But yeah, I think there's a

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Speaker 3: momentum gain. There's this swell that starts picking up speed

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Speaker 3: when somebody will put that out there and then somebody

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Speaker 3: thinks it's cool, and then somebody else thinks it's cool.

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Speaker 3: Only because we cannot think for ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Anymore, and Joe, you went through this, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: leaving Tampa Bay for the Cubs, and you understand personally

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Speaker 1: it takes free agency for a manager to really be

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Speaker 1: valued and true value, right, You need bidders, and in

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Speaker 1: this case, the Milwaukee Brewers had plenty of opportunities to

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Speaker 1: sign Craig Council to an extension, and then after the

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Speaker 1: season they came in with an offer at about five

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Speaker 1: and a half million dollars a year, which is good money,

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Speaker 1: but it's true value as a guy who gets the

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Speaker 1: most out of his teams was found out when the

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Speaker 1: Chicago Cubs said we'll give you eight million a year.

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Speaker 2: Folks, that's not even close.

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Speaker 1: You're not supposed to stay in a place just because

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Speaker 1: you've been there, and when another team values you by

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Speaker 1: so much more, and listen, I applaud Craig Counsel Joe,

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Speaker 1: because I think he realized. I'm not sure if it

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Speaker 1: was part of his plan. I do think deep down

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Speaker 1: he preferred to stay in Milwaukee. Let's face it, that's

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Speaker 1: his hometown. His dad worked for the Brewers for years

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Speaker 1: and years and years. That's where his history at home is.

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Speaker 1: So all things being equal, yeah, I think he wanted

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Speaker 1: to stay in Milwaukee.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't like I got to get out of this place.

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Speaker 1: But when another team comes around and offers you so

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Speaker 1: much more, and they're telling you we value more than

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Speaker 1: your current team, I don't have a problem with the

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Speaker 1: guy leaving, and in fact, I applaud him for what

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Speaker 1: he's done for managers by raising the bar, because I

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Speaker 1: think in general, managers are criminally underpaid. And I say

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Speaker 1: that in quotes because let's face it, they're all doing

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Speaker 1: pretty well, but in this scheme of Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: and what they're paying some of the players, I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about the back end of the roster. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: Crek Counsel needed to push the envelope for managers, and

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Speaker 1: I applaud the way he did it, and he obviously

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Speaker 1: it does not deserve to be booed.

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Speaker 3: No, you represent your organization at least twice a day

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Speaker 3: via the media, just talking about the pregame press conference,

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Speaker 3: the postgame press conference, and then all the other little

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Speaker 3: vignettes that you do during the course of the day

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Speaker 3: when you show up to the ballpark, so you are

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Speaker 3: the face of the franchise, is always your star player

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Speaker 3: in a sense. But then Again, nobody speaks on behalf

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Speaker 3: of your franchise, whether the manager does. The GM doesn't

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Speaker 3: do that, definitely not. The owner doesn't do that. There's

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Speaker 3: nobody within the group that's asked to explain good or

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Speaker 3: bad what's going on daily. It's almost like the press

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Speaker 3: secretary for the presidents. Really, I've often thought about that,

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Speaker 3: what's the difference. A lot of times you're on your left,

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Speaker 3: your own devices. You will talk to somebody upstairs about

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Speaker 3: something that may appear to be more controversial, just to

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Speaker 3: make sure that you're not stepping on any toes because

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Speaker 3: what that can happen. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: after you've done something you thought was completely innocent, you're

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Speaker 3: going to get a phone call where somebody's going to

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Speaker 3: come down to speak with you. So there's all of

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Speaker 3: that that has to be Nobody even thinks about that,

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Speaker 3: the idea of the fact that you have to sit

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Speaker 3: there every day and answer some difficult questions because when

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Speaker 3: things aren't going well, man, it's hard to really sit

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Speaker 3: there and remain composed, give them straightforward answers. Them being

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Speaker 3: the media, and again you're defending, You're constantly defending, I

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Speaker 3: could say defending when things aren't going well, then there's

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Speaker 3: the chance to play offense, which is always fun. When

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Speaker 3: things are going well, then you could be more on

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Speaker 3: the offensive side of the ball. When things aren't going well,

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Speaker 3: you're always playing defense with your feet. With your feet,

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Speaker 3: move your feet. That's how this thing works. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's so many hours in the day. This the representation.

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Speaker 3: Then you look at with college coaches are able to

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Speaker 3: garner and you go wow. And a lot of them

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Speaker 3: are football coaches that where they coach eight or ten

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Speaker 3: games a year. Now they have to answer to alumni

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Speaker 3: and they got to go out there and do a

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Speaker 3: lot of public appearances. I get it. But major League

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Speaker 3: Baseball managers make several appearances on a daily basis and

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Speaker 3: represent and manage two hundred games a year including spring training.

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Speaker 3: If you get to that last game of the year,

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Speaker 3: and when there's a lot going on here, man that

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Speaker 3: people don't understand unless you've actually worked the job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because I started

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Speaker 1: out in an era where speaking to the manager, you'd

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Speaker 1: have the beat writers to get together just hanging out

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Speaker 1: on chairs and couches in the office before the game

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Speaker 1: and then after the games kind of the same kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. It was not a formal setup as they

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Speaker 1: do with typically in a press conference room. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's analogous to the White House briefing room, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there's a formality to it, and the managers now

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Speaker 1: for the most part, are giving you the same corporate

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Speaker 1: speak that you're getting from the front office because you

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Speaker 1: have to tread carefully, right, because there is this we

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Speaker 1: lost the casualness of just talking baseball with the manager.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's created almost this robotic system where managers,

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Speaker 1: as you say, Joe, don't want to step on anybody's toes.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I'm happy when some managers give you

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Speaker 1: just this gleam of honesty.

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Speaker 2: We talked about Ron Washington.

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Speaker 1: And the squeeze play with Luis Guillorme andsh just saying

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Speaker 1: flat out and he's correct, He's got to.

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Speaker 2: Get the ball down, simple as that.

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Speaker 1: And he was accused of quote unquote throwing him under

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Speaker 1: the bus, which is ridiculous. We had another case recently

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Speaker 1: here with Pedro Graffoll with the Chicago White Sox. They

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Speaker 1: were playing the Baltimore Orioles. They got no hit for

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Speaker 1: seven innings, wound up losing the game, and after the game,

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Speaker 1: Pedro said the team's effort was effing flat, and again

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Speaker 1: he gets called out for throwing his team under the bus,

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Speaker 1: and obviously the media then goes to the players and

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Speaker 1: the players have to respond to that. There was a

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Speaker 1: team meeting after the game and the players basically said, hey,

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Speaker 1: we don't agree, but that's his opinion. Kudos to Pedri

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Speaker 1: graffoll I have no problem with the guy saying the

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Speaker 1: team was flat.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they were. Managers should know his own team and

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Speaker 2: your ego if you're a major league player, to me,

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Speaker 2: should not be bruised Joe.

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Speaker 1: If the manager says you were flat and calls you

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Speaker 1: out on that, I wish it was.

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Speaker 2: Done more often. So the next day, this is great.

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Speaker 1: The next day Pedro when the media talks to him

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Speaker 1: for the pregame press conference, as you mentioned, Pedro says,

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Speaker 1: I'm doubling down on what I said. I thought we

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Speaker 1: were flat, and that's where I'm going to leave it.

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Speaker 1: I love that, So kudos to Pedro. And listen to

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Speaker 1: Chicago White Sox. This is unbelievable. They're fifteen and forty.

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Speaker 1: It is the worst start in the history of the

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Speaker 1: Chicago White Sox franchise. So yes, there's definitely some frustration,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, they went out and lost to

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Speaker 1: Toronto five to one the next day. But again, we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be we'ren't a business and the journalism business, Joe

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Speaker 1: of seeking answers and looking for honesty, and when someone

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Speaker 1: says something that is honestly the way that they feel,

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't call them out and reprimand them for quote

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Speaker 1: unquote throwing somebody under the bus.

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Speaker 3: I thought I liked him, now I love him. I

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Speaker 3: didn't realize he doubled down the next day. That is

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Speaker 3: outstanding and that's the way it should be. You know,

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Speaker 3: you and I have talked about this when I let

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Speaker 3: the Rays. I was a big Tom Clancy fan and

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Speaker 3: Clancy's protagonist Jack Ryan was known for speaking the truth,

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Speaker 3: and there was the time with the with clear and

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Speaker 3: present danger when he could double down. Not only was

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Speaker 3: he one of your friends, mister President, he's one of

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Speaker 3: your best friends. And I would talk to Rick Vaughan.

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Speaker 3: I knew something controversial would be asked after the game,

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Speaker 3: and so RB would come in and I'd say, RB,

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Speaker 3: I'm going Jack Ryan to night Man I'm going Jack Ryan,

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Speaker 3: we're running right into this thing. You don't run away from,

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Speaker 3: you run right into it. The moment you start telling

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Speaker 3: the truth, you know what happens, The controversy goes away.

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Speaker 3: So my established method, i'd say, from I don't know

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Speaker 3: two thousand and seven eight, whatever it might have been,

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Speaker 3: was to go Jack Ryan on him, and that would

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Speaker 3: be just not only tell him the truth, tell him

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Speaker 3: the harsh, hard truth. This is exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 3: And you know you're right. I mean you have to.

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Speaker 3: As a manager. You have in the back of your

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Speaker 3: head the player's reaction to and I think, again, I

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Speaker 3: hope I'm not being redundant. But there's this ally component

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Speaker 3: to all of this. When you can be critical of somebody,

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Speaker 3: specifically that person going to look for allies within the clubhouse,

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Speaker 3: and particularly probably somebody that's not doing well it doesn't

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Speaker 3: think he's getting played often enough. There's all these kind

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Speaker 3: of little undercurrent political elements of every clubhouse. So when

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Speaker 3: you say something as a manager, you know you know

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Speaker 3: whether you're going to be supported or not. And if

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Speaker 3: you have a nice clubhouse with a couple veterans that

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Speaker 3: really know what's going on, you're going to be supported

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Speaker 3: and they're going to tell these people to shut up.

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Speaker 3: And then again if you don't when you're kind of

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Speaker 3: fragmented like the White Sox are right now, there are

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Speaker 3: no there's no leader within that clubhouse that say, hey,

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Speaker 3: he's right. You know, we got to get our crap together.

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Speaker 3: This isn't working or you got to be kidding me,

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Speaker 3: and we got to respect what the manager says right here,

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Speaker 3: if you have the right kind of process built up

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Speaker 3: within the group, and so that's all that is. I mean,

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Speaker 3: telling the truth, go Jack Ryan on him, say it,

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Speaker 3: Just say it. When you say the truth like that,

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Speaker 3: you just have to sum. You have to be prepared

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Speaker 3: for the consequences that may come to you. But again,

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Speaker 3: if that was what you believed and that's what you meant,

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Speaker 3: then there's no reason to worry about it. But know

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Speaker 3: your clubhouse, know what's going to happen, what's going to

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Speaker 3: be the aftermath because something like that, Normally with a

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Speaker 3: good clubhouse, the players would have agreed with that and

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Speaker 3: try to do something about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like all those points, Joe, And I think you know,

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Speaker 1: as a manager, there are times where you can sense

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Speaker 1: that the team is flat, right. I mean this was

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Speaker 1: a Sunday afternoon game, you know things aren't going well.

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Speaker 1: He didn't call out anybody individually. I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to note that. And I don't have a problem with

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Speaker 1: if a manager thinks and you know, in the long

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Speaker 1: season there are times where a team is flat, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's players nature not to want to admit

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Speaker 1: that that happens, but it does. It's human nature. So again,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a problem. I don't think he had

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Speaker 1: a motivation like, oh I need to rally the here.

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Speaker 1: I think kind of pop off after the game. I

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Speaker 1: think he just noticed something and it bothered him and

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Speaker 1: maybe it was building.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. The other thing for me, I always talked about

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Speaker 3: the lead bulls, and you're at least the eight most

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Speaker 3: influential players on the team that i'd have been meeting

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Speaker 3: with in spring training. In advance of that, I would

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Speaker 3: go to one of these guys, you know. In other words,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to maybe saying publicly that we were flat today,

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Speaker 3: I would go to whomever and say, listen, this is unacceptable. Man.

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Speaker 3: Either have a meeting individually with some guys, or you

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Speaker 3: need to have a player's only meeting because again I'm

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Speaker 3: not a team meeting guy, because I think when it

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Speaker 3: comes from peers, it has a lot more substance and

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Speaker 3: it's louder and lasts longer. So I would go to

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Speaker 3: one of the guys that I thought are several and

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Speaker 3: say listen, or maybe call a little meeting among them

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Speaker 3: and say this isn't this. We can't do this, guys,

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Speaker 3: and you got to you got to agree that this

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Speaker 3: is not right, and I need you to have a

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Speaker 3: team meeting among yourselves and discuss all this stuff. So

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Speaker 3: that's that's why I like that. I think when it

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Speaker 3: comes back to the manager, when the manager has to intervene,

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Speaker 3: that's pretty much when all else fails. I've always thought,

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Speaker 3: so you set up these different layers in front of you,

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Speaker 3: not too necessary to protect you, or you're afraid to sayty,

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Speaker 3: that's not the point. The point is when it runs

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Speaker 3: of its own volition, If it runs on its own accord,

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Speaker 3: it always runs better. When you have to start steering

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Speaker 3: it from behind. Man that gets it's a yellow dirty

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Speaker 3: Sometimes you're not always going to get the immediate reaction

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Speaker 3: you're looking for. You know, you could you could start

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Speaker 3: roughing some feathers and sometimes you have to. I agree

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Speaker 3: with that, but I like when it comes from the

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Speaker 3: group itself, when they could be accountable to each other

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Speaker 3: and concede. That's absolutely correct. We got to do something

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Speaker 3: about it, so that would have been my first step.

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Speaker 3: But I set that up in spring training by having

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Speaker 3: that meeting and explain it to all the guys that

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Speaker 3: this is how we're going to do it in the clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: I'm out of it. I'm not. This is your clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: This is how we need to run it. And if

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Speaker 3: I have to get involved, it means everything else that

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Speaker 3: we've set up has failed. Well.

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Speaker 1: Expectations were low for the Chicago White Sox that's generally

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Speaker 1: a younger team, but I mentioned we're one third of

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Speaker 1: the way through the season. The Dodgers and the Braves

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Speaker 1: were two teams expected to be among the elite in

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Speaker 1: the National League. And right now there are some issues

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Speaker 1: with both Los Angeles and Atlanta and we'll dive into

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Speaker 1: that right after this.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast.

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Speaker 1: The Dodgers have lost five straight games for the first

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Speaker 1: time in five years. In their last sixteen, they're seven

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Speaker 1: to nine and hitting two ten. I mean, listen, Joe.

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Speaker 1: We know the Dodgers are fine, right, They're going to

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Speaker 1: be in the postseason. They're going to win the National

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Speaker 1: League West. No one's panicking about that. But sometimes, Joe,

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Speaker 1: this team just doesn't work because to me, the lineup

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Speaker 1: is so top heavy heavy ye that the depth of

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Speaker 1: the lineup just isn't there. If the big guys don't hit,

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Speaker 1: there's no other way to win a ballgame, and listen to.

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Speaker 1: Pitching is really good. But I think lately they've had

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Speaker 1: serious bullpen issues. You know, the course of a season.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you went through this with the sixteen Cubs.

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Speaker 1: You know, not every team is just going to roll

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Speaker 1: the whole year. We're at the stage now looking at

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers where we're seeing their flaws and if you

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Speaker 1: want to pick a team apart and see where they're

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Speaker 1: vulnerable in a postseason environment, I think the Dodgers are

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Speaker 1: showing that to you right now. Lack of depth in

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Speaker 1: the lineup, lack of depth in the bullpen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, And having said all that, you're also right.

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Speaker 3: I believe that they're going to settle down, they're going

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Speaker 3: to get back on roll. They're going to look like

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Speaker 3: they had early on in the season, but I was

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Speaker 3: I just happened to be looking at that today and

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at their lineup itself. It really does stin

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Speaker 3: out pretty drastically towards the ball. There's a lot to

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Speaker 3: contend with at the top, absolutely there is. But those

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Speaker 3: guys aren't going to, like I guess, show A's struggling

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Speaker 3: a little bit right now, so there's going to be

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Speaker 3: that little bit of a struggle where you're looking for

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Speaker 3: other people to pick it up. And if after Hernandez

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Speaker 3: it looked like it really fell off dramatically, so that

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Speaker 3: will somewhat become mitigated. Some of the guys that are

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Speaker 3: not doing as well are going to pick it up

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Speaker 3: a little bit. But that's going to be I think

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Speaker 3: a constant source of concern all year, the fact that

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Speaker 3: they have this this real fall off after five. It

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Speaker 3: looks like but the pitching staff, I mean, Bueller coming back,

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Speaker 3: they got to get really well there. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I haven't been following their bullpen enough to be honest

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Speaker 3: with you, but I know I know they're going to

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Speaker 3: do some things there that it's going to make it

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Speaker 3: more interesting and somebody's going to pick it up I

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Speaker 3: have a lot of faith in their process there. So

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Speaker 3: it's a bump in the road. It's not right right now,

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Speaker 3: but you're right. They're going to win the division, maybe

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Speaker 3: not run away with it as much as everybody else thought,

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Speaker 3: but I still think that's forthcoming. But if I had

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Speaker 3: one situation to address with them, a be somehow to

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Speaker 3: look into that lineup situation, because it did not it does.

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Speaker 3: The name's not read really well after five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you mentioned Tascar Hernandez and even he scares

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Speaker 1: me in a postseason environment because there's so much swing

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Speaker 1: and miss there. Game planning, as you know, Joe really

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Speaker 1: ratches it up in the postseason.

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Speaker 2: Rotation shortened, bullpen shortened.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can get to Taskar Hernandez in a

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Speaker 1: big spot because there's so much swing and miss there.

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Speaker 1: So something to keep an eye on with the Dodgers.

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Speaker 1: And also we talked about Pedro Graffol and how he

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Speaker 1: responded to you know, his team looking flat on the

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Speaker 1: field and called him out.

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Speaker 2: Dave Roberts had a very different reaction.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is the difference when you have the Dodgers,

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Speaker 1: you know, sitting in first place, and you're not worried

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Speaker 1: because you're playing for October. I mentioned they've hit two

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Speaker 1: ten over the last mile basically three weeks, and his

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Speaker 1: response was, well, we're not hitting. And when when you're

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Speaker 1: not hitting, it certainly feels like lifeless. But I know

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Speaker 1: it's not from lack of care or preparation. But the

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Speaker 1: bottom line is it's about results, and we're not getting

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Speaker 1: the results. That's typical Dave Roberts. I mean, he handles

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Speaker 1: situations so well. I mean there's never an alarm button

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Speaker 1: that he pushes. And you expect that from Dave Roberts

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Speaker 1: because he's got a really good team. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think Joe as a manager, and you've had bad teams,

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Speaker 1: you've had good teams. I think a team that's talented,

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Speaker 1: this talented that's been through it mostly a veteran team,

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Speaker 1: you can handle it a lot differently than if you

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Speaker 1: have a young team like Petro Graffall has.

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Speaker 3: No question when you have a little bit of pedigree

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Speaker 3: to fall back on. It's a totally different thought process

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Speaker 3: from the manager, whether to his group or to the media,

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Speaker 3: or to the general public, whatever however you want to

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Speaker 3: describe it. It's completely different. His head on the pillow

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Speaker 3: at night is totally different than Griffall's. I mean, David's got,

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Speaker 3: you know, job security. He knows what's going on there,

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Speaker 3: he's got to and also there's this chemistry among him

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Speaker 3: and the front office that there's a lot of security

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Speaker 3: involved in that, and there's a lot of knowing that

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Speaker 3: this is going to get better. On the other hand,

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Speaker 3: Griffal doesn't know that. I don't know what his situations

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Speaker 3: like with his front office. I don't know what it's

430
00:21:19,398 --> 00:21:21,478
Speaker 3: like among his coaching staff or even his players. I

431
00:21:21,478 --> 00:21:26,038
Speaker 3: have no idea, but there's completely different tact and approach

432
00:21:26,478 --> 00:21:30,238
Speaker 3: from David and with Pedro. Now i've heard Pedro speak.

433
00:21:30,278 --> 00:21:33,878
Speaker 3: His guy's really sharp, and I remember years Eddie Perez

434
00:21:33,958 --> 00:21:36,238
Speaker 3: used to always tell me, take them on my coaching staff,

435
00:21:36,278 --> 00:21:38,318
Speaker 3: take them on my coaching staff if I had an opening.

436
00:21:38,678 --> 00:21:40,358
Speaker 3: He was pushing him when he was with Kansas City

437
00:21:40,398 --> 00:21:42,398
Speaker 3: for years. Then I finally got a chance to hear

438
00:21:42,478 --> 00:21:44,638
Speaker 3: him speak, and that's I'm big on that. It's like

439
00:21:44,678 --> 00:21:47,958
Speaker 3: John Schneider with the Blue Jays. I like when he talks.

440
00:21:48,158 --> 00:21:49,678
Speaker 3: I like what he says and how he says it.

441
00:21:50,078 --> 00:21:52,478
Speaker 3: I thought Pedro was really sharp too, and I liked

442
00:21:52,558 --> 00:21:55,558
Speaker 3: that also So these guys, just like a Schneider and

443
00:21:55,598 --> 00:21:58,238
Speaker 3: a griffall just need time. They need their teams to

444
00:21:58,318 --> 00:22:00,918
Speaker 3: become somewhat successful in order for people to believe that

445
00:22:00,958 --> 00:22:03,598
Speaker 3: these guys really know what they're talking about. Whereas David

446
00:22:03,598 --> 00:22:07,158
Speaker 3: has got obviously by that, so he's it's more easy,

447
00:22:07,158 --> 00:22:11,678
Speaker 3: it's easier to handle some difficult situations, things aren't going well.

448
00:22:11,958 --> 00:22:14,198
Speaker 3: He has the cachet built up. People are gonna hang

449
00:22:14,198 --> 00:22:16,958
Speaker 3: with it longer. And of course his way, his method

450
00:22:16,998 --> 00:22:20,318
Speaker 3: of saying it is going to present because David doesn't really,

451
00:22:20,478 --> 00:22:22,318
Speaker 3: like you said, he's not going to panic. He's always

452
00:22:22,358 --> 00:22:23,958
Speaker 3: got a nice way about him, whether we're having a

453
00:22:23,958 --> 00:22:26,158
Speaker 3: glass of wine with him, where he's managing in the

454
00:22:26,158 --> 00:22:28,678
Speaker 3: seventh inning. So it's it's just a different time in

455
00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:32,798
Speaker 3: each guy's career. It's a different organization, there's a different tools,

456
00:22:32,838 --> 00:22:35,918
Speaker 3: and again you're you're you're really subject to who's putting

457
00:22:35,918 --> 00:22:39,078
Speaker 3: this thing together as a manager, because the managers don't

458
00:22:39,078 --> 00:22:41,478
Speaker 3: put it together. It's not like an NFL team, where

459
00:22:41,478 --> 00:22:43,398
Speaker 3: an NFL coach and the staff has a lot to

460
00:22:43,398 --> 00:22:46,238
Speaker 3: do with how a team drafts, et cetera. In Major

461
00:22:46,318 --> 00:22:49,158
Speaker 3: League Baseball baseball, you don't have any of that. This

462
00:22:49,318 --> 00:22:53,678
Speaker 3: you're really at the mercy of people that are the evaluators,

463
00:22:53,718 --> 00:22:56,718
Speaker 3: those that are acquiring or accumulating the talent, and how

464
00:22:56,718 --> 00:22:58,478
Speaker 3: they see things and how they put it together. And

465
00:22:58,518 --> 00:23:02,358
Speaker 3: then you have to pretty much have their vision, the

466
00:23:02,398 --> 00:23:05,118
Speaker 3: front office vision work. It's not your vision, it's the

467
00:23:05,198 --> 00:23:08,798
Speaker 3: vision of the front office that you are charged with

468
00:23:08,918 --> 00:23:12,678
Speaker 3: making this vision work. So there's a difference. So Pedro

469
00:23:12,878 --> 00:23:14,918
Speaker 3: and Snyder as an example, I'd love to see these

470
00:23:14,918 --> 00:23:17,558
Speaker 3: guys really get their feet on the ground because I

471
00:23:17,558 --> 00:23:18,998
Speaker 3: think they can both be very good. I think they're

472
00:23:19,038 --> 00:23:21,358
Speaker 3: really bright, and I like the way they communicate, whereas

473
00:23:21,438 --> 00:23:23,238
Speaker 3: David's well beyond that.

474
00:23:23,238 --> 00:23:25,558
Speaker 1: That's a great point about the roster too, because I

475
00:23:25,598 --> 00:23:27,998
Speaker 1: look at this Dodger team and they've had so much

476
00:23:28,158 --> 00:23:29,678
Speaker 1: churn in their bullpen, Joe.

477
00:23:29,758 --> 00:23:31,758
Speaker 2: I mean, they keep trying to.

478
00:23:31,758 --> 00:23:33,998
Speaker 1: Find and pop some guys and they've been great at

479
00:23:34,038 --> 00:23:38,558
Speaker 1: it over the years, in a manner similar to Tampa Bay.

480
00:23:38,598 --> 00:23:41,438
Speaker 1: And that's that's not a surprise given Andrew Friedman is

481
00:23:42,118 --> 00:23:44,398
Speaker 1: kind of a link between those two franchises, and his

482
00:23:44,478 --> 00:23:46,678
Speaker 1: influence remains in Tampa Bay.

483
00:23:47,118 --> 00:23:49,558
Speaker 2: But you know, they they turn up guys you can spin.

484
00:23:49,398 --> 00:23:51,318
Speaker 1: The ball or maybe have a pitch that plays up

485
00:23:52,078 --> 00:23:54,078
Speaker 1: with a little bit of help with the track man

486
00:23:54,118 --> 00:23:57,478
Speaker 1: and reps Soto and the technology today. But they keep

487
00:23:57,718 --> 00:24:01,118
Speaker 1: running bullpen guys through there, and Dave Roberts has guys

488
00:24:01,158 --> 00:24:03,678
Speaker 1: basically showing up every day trying to figure out who

489
00:24:03,678 --> 00:24:07,078
Speaker 1: they are are what they do. So I understand it

490
00:24:07,158 --> 00:24:09,758
Speaker 1: for the Dodgers, they don't have a subtle bullpen right

491
00:24:09,798 --> 00:24:11,718
Speaker 1: now that if there was an injury to Evan Phillips,

492
00:24:11,718 --> 00:24:14,758
Speaker 1: that has kind of backed everybody up as well. So

493
00:24:14,798 --> 00:24:16,918
Speaker 1: it hasn't been easy for Dave Roberts with these guys.

494
00:24:16,918 --> 00:24:18,758
Speaker 1: I mean, he had a guy Ramirez coming the other day.

495
00:24:18,878 --> 00:24:22,198
Speaker 1: He was defaide a couple of times already by New

496
00:24:22,278 --> 00:24:24,638
Speaker 1: York and winds up there, hits a couple of batters

497
00:24:24,638 --> 00:24:26,598
Speaker 1: and Dave Roberts has to take a mountain visit just

498
00:24:26,638 --> 00:24:28,358
Speaker 1: to get this guy's feet on the ground. He's not

499
00:24:28,398 --> 00:24:30,958
Speaker 1: trying to hit anybody, but he's trying to impress the

500
00:24:30,998 --> 00:24:34,718
Speaker 1: new manager or the new coaching staff, and there's a lot.

501
00:24:34,638 --> 00:24:35,998
Speaker 2: Of handholding has to go on.

502
00:24:36,238 --> 00:24:40,118
Speaker 1: And you know, Joe, as a manager, it's very uncomfortable

503
00:24:40,198 --> 00:24:42,598
Speaker 1: to have guys in your bullpen that you're not really

504
00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:46,198
Speaker 1: sure what their role is or how they'll respond to

505
00:24:46,238 --> 00:24:49,198
Speaker 1: a situation. It takes some time to understand that about

506
00:24:49,238 --> 00:24:51,718
Speaker 1: each guy and their heartbeat and how they handle the situation.

507
00:24:52,238 --> 00:24:54,078
Speaker 1: So I think Dave has been dealing with that too,

508
00:24:54,118 --> 00:24:56,758
Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, that's really a product to the

509
00:24:56,758 --> 00:24:58,838
Speaker 1: front office trying to find the right people and the

510
00:24:58,878 --> 00:25:01,598
Speaker 1: manager having to go through a learning curve.

511
00:25:02,198 --> 00:25:05,278
Speaker 3: I remember when the year we got Fernando Rodney with

512
00:25:05,358 --> 00:25:08,198
Speaker 3: the Rays, and Andrew called me in the off season.

513
00:25:08,278 --> 00:25:10,478
Speaker 3: He says, what do you think about Fernando Rodney? Has

514
00:25:10,478 --> 00:25:12,958
Speaker 3: it got a great arm, but it's kind of like

515
00:25:13,038 --> 00:25:15,238
Speaker 3: the nitro. You never know what nitro glycerin. You never

516
00:25:15,238 --> 00:25:18,198
Speaker 3: know what you're gonna get. It's very sensitive. And he says,

517
00:25:18,438 --> 00:25:21,038
Speaker 3: our guys really like him. Our staff are you know,

518
00:25:21,158 --> 00:25:24,358
Speaker 3: their analytical group really liked him. And sure enough, I

519
00:25:24,358 --> 00:25:27,078
Speaker 3: think he had like a point six something ERA that year.

520
00:25:27,398 --> 00:25:29,998
Speaker 3: The other guy was Joaquin ben Wa Benny. I always

521
00:25:29,998 --> 00:25:32,198
Speaker 3: loved Benny, and then all of a sudden he asked

522
00:25:32,198 --> 00:25:33,918
Speaker 3: me about Benny, and I said, I always love Benny,

523
00:25:33,958 --> 00:25:36,438
Speaker 3: but you know, I don't know, I haven't seen him

524
00:25:36,438 --> 00:25:38,758
Speaker 3: for a bit whatever. So we ended up getting Ben

525
00:25:38,798 --> 00:25:41,398
Speaker 3: Watt and Fernando in the same year. I remember coming

526
00:25:41,398 --> 00:25:44,438
Speaker 3: out of spring training. I don't even think Benny started

527
00:25:44,478 --> 00:25:46,638
Speaker 3: with the big club. I think he started in Triple A.

528
00:25:47,318 --> 00:25:49,078
Speaker 3: But the point I'm driving at is it takes you

529
00:25:49,118 --> 00:25:50,918
Speaker 3: about a month. It took me about a month to

530
00:25:50,918 --> 00:25:53,998
Speaker 3: figure out both of these guys. Where are they, how

531
00:25:54,038 --> 00:25:56,478
Speaker 3: do they fit in? What's their consistency, like, how long

532
00:25:56,478 --> 00:25:58,278
Speaker 3: as it take them to warm up? How much time

533
00:25:58,318 --> 00:26:01,518
Speaker 3: do they need off after they've pitched? What's their waterloo

534
00:26:01,758 --> 00:26:04,558
Speaker 3: mark number when they're pitching any games twenty four to

535
00:26:04,558 --> 00:26:07,238
Speaker 3: twenty five? I mean, at what point do you know

536
00:26:07,278 --> 00:26:10,078
Speaker 3: that things are going to go south with a short

537
00:26:10,198 --> 00:26:12,278
Speaker 3: relief pitcher? And that's a really big thing for me.

538
00:26:12,558 --> 00:26:14,958
Speaker 3: You know, you get these closers or won any guys

539
00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:16,278
Speaker 3: they come in, man, and all of a sudden the

540
00:26:16,358 --> 00:26:18,478
Speaker 3: number start get a little bit higher, and if you

541
00:26:18,518 --> 00:26:21,918
Speaker 3: want to ride them past twenty five, sometimes bad things

542
00:26:21,958 --> 00:26:23,958
Speaker 3: are going to happen. And I've always you know, you

543
00:26:23,998 --> 00:26:26,518
Speaker 3: always got to know your guys and understand that in

544
00:26:26,558 --> 00:26:28,758
Speaker 3: advance of the moment. So I always thought it took

545
00:26:28,758 --> 00:26:31,918
Speaker 3: at least a month to understand my bullpen Now, if

546
00:26:31,918 --> 00:26:34,678
Speaker 3: you're constantly bringing new actors in, that's going to take

547
00:26:34,718 --> 00:26:36,638
Speaker 3: longer than a month. It's going to take maybe two months,

548
00:26:36,638 --> 00:26:39,158
Speaker 3: like you're describing with the Dodgers right now. And so

549
00:26:39,358 --> 00:26:42,398
Speaker 3: a team that has an unsettled bullpen, Believe me, there's

550
00:26:42,478 --> 00:26:46,638
Speaker 3: nothing worse on a daily basis as a manager, because

551
00:26:46,678 --> 00:26:48,758
Speaker 3: for me, that's one of the biggest things I do

552
00:26:48,798 --> 00:26:52,878
Speaker 3: every day pregame is a to do my lineup and

553
00:26:52,918 --> 00:26:55,838
Speaker 3: then and setting up your lineup based on who you like,

554
00:26:55,878 --> 00:26:57,238
Speaker 3: of course and how you want to set them up,

555
00:26:57,238 --> 00:26:59,918
Speaker 3: but you're also thinking about pinch hitting and their bullpen

556
00:26:59,998 --> 00:27:02,198
Speaker 3: later in the game. And then the other part is

557
00:27:02,278 --> 00:27:04,678
Speaker 3: your bullpen versus them and who's the available, who's not,

558
00:27:05,198 --> 00:27:07,118
Speaker 3: and how they fit into the pockets. And it became

559
00:27:07,158 --> 00:27:10,038
Speaker 3: increasingly more difficult when they went to the three batter

560
00:27:10,078 --> 00:27:12,558
Speaker 3: minimum rule because now you're working out of pockets as

561
00:27:12,558 --> 00:27:15,798
Speaker 3: opposed to when you had that specialist the Randy Schults

562
00:27:15,838 --> 00:27:18,118
Speaker 3: of the world, Chad Bradford's of the world, the one

563
00:27:18,158 --> 00:27:21,318
Speaker 3: on one kind of situations that no longer existed. All

564
00:27:21,358 --> 00:27:24,438
Speaker 3: that stuff went away. So these are the kind of

565
00:27:24,478 --> 00:27:28,718
Speaker 3: things that all these different rules and setups have formulated

566
00:27:28,758 --> 00:27:32,198
Speaker 3: but knowing your bullpen takes some time. Man last point

567
00:27:32,198 --> 00:27:34,238
Speaker 3: I want to make very quickly too, is I've been

568
00:27:34,238 --> 00:27:36,958
Speaker 3: asked recently about closers and like the ideas with the

569
00:27:36,998 --> 00:27:39,398
Speaker 3: Mets and how he's been struggling and what would you do,

570
00:27:39,438 --> 00:27:40,878
Speaker 3: would you take him out of that roller or not?

571
00:27:41,558 --> 00:27:45,198
Speaker 3: And the thing that's this three batter minimum makes diff

572
00:27:45,398 --> 00:27:47,918
Speaker 3: more difficult is to get somebody back on their feet

573
00:27:48,198 --> 00:27:50,878
Speaker 3: when things are going badly, meaning that if I bring

574
00:27:50,958 --> 00:27:52,198
Speaker 3: him in the game, I got it. He has to

575
00:27:52,198 --> 00:27:54,638
Speaker 3: face three hitters, even though it's going to you can

576
00:27:54,678 --> 00:27:57,518
Speaker 3: see it going sideways quickly. Whereas in the past, if

577
00:27:57,518 --> 00:27:59,078
Speaker 3: you're trying to get somebody back on their feet, you

578
00:27:59,078 --> 00:28:01,438
Speaker 3: can bring him in with two outs. You can bring

579
00:28:01,478 --> 00:28:03,918
Speaker 3: them with two outs and haven't finished that any of course,

580
00:28:04,118 --> 00:28:05,838
Speaker 3: that's still part of the landscape. I get it. Or

581
00:28:05,838 --> 00:28:09,158
Speaker 3: maybe bring him in with one out and face one hitter, specifically,

582
00:28:09,238 --> 00:28:12,118
Speaker 3: get him out, bring somebody else in just to get

583
00:28:12,198 --> 00:28:14,038
Speaker 3: him in and get him out, get him up, get

584
00:28:14,078 --> 00:28:16,598
Speaker 3: him in, get him out of the game, have him

585
00:28:16,598 --> 00:28:20,038
Speaker 3: walk off the field feeling successful and getting his confidence

586
00:28:20,078 --> 00:28:22,958
Speaker 3: built up back. Then that's no longer a possibility for

587
00:28:23,038 --> 00:28:25,798
Speaker 3: managers in order to get somebody back when they're really

588
00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:26,718
Speaker 3: not doing that well.

589
00:28:27,118 --> 00:28:27,918
Speaker 2: That's a great point.

590
00:28:27,958 --> 00:28:29,878
Speaker 1: I'm big on that as well, and I've seen that

591
00:28:29,918 --> 00:28:33,358
Speaker 1: as well with young starting pitchers. Don't leave them in

592
00:28:33,398 --> 00:28:35,358
Speaker 1: there where they're in a position to leave the field

593
00:28:35,358 --> 00:28:37,958
Speaker 1: with their head hanging if they're throwing, well, get them

594
00:28:37,958 --> 00:28:40,118
Speaker 1: out earlier rather than later so that they feel good

595
00:28:40,158 --> 00:28:43,918
Speaker 1: about themselves and correct. You've seen Brandon Hyde and Baltimore

596
00:28:43,958 --> 00:28:47,878
Speaker 1: and now Carlos Mendoza with the Mets with closers that

597
00:28:47,518 --> 00:28:49,518
Speaker 1: you need to be backed up to try to get

598
00:28:49,518 --> 00:28:52,718
Speaker 1: back on track. Talking about kimberl and Diaz, I like

599
00:28:52,798 --> 00:28:55,838
Speaker 1: that approach, and you look for soft landings, and in

600
00:28:55,958 --> 00:28:58,678
Speaker 1: Kimberle's case, I thought I did a good job when

601
00:28:58,718 --> 00:29:02,118
Speaker 1: there was a three run save opportunity. That's when you

602
00:29:02,358 --> 00:29:06,158
Speaker 1: plug Kimberrell back in. Who's the confidence there? So maybe

603
00:29:06,198 --> 00:29:08,998
Speaker 1: they're getting him back. Diaz to me just does not

604
00:29:09,238 --> 00:29:12,438
Speaker 1: look the same. Stuff wise, It's gonna take some time

605
00:29:12,478 --> 00:29:14,998
Speaker 1: after missing all of last year, So I like what

606
00:29:15,078 --> 00:29:18,478
Speaker 1: Mendoza has done with him. Joe I mentioned the Braves

607
00:29:18,598 --> 00:29:21,558
Speaker 1: another team. I don't want to say they're struggling because

608
00:29:21,558 --> 00:29:24,958
Speaker 1: they're not. But the reality is they no longer have

609
00:29:25,118 --> 00:29:27,718
Speaker 1: Ronald Acunya Junior, which is a real shame, one of

610
00:29:27,758 --> 00:29:31,918
Speaker 1: the most exciting players in the game with another ACL injury.

611
00:29:32,398 --> 00:29:36,118
Speaker 1: But the Braves are six games behind the Philadelphia Phillies,

612
00:29:36,638 --> 00:29:39,678
Speaker 1: and they have ten games remaining with the Phillies, and

613
00:29:39,718 --> 00:29:42,998
Speaker 1: obviously Acunya will not be part of those ten games

614
00:29:43,558 --> 00:29:46,998
Speaker 1: they're starting. Pitching has been great even without Spencer Strider,

615
00:29:47,078 --> 00:29:49,678
Speaker 1: but looking ahead now at the road for Atlanta, of

616
00:29:49,678 --> 00:29:53,158
Speaker 1: course there's no Spencer Strider. There's no Ronald d'acunya Junior.

617
00:29:53,998 --> 00:29:58,398
Speaker 1: Can the Braves run down the Philadelphia Phillies without their

618
00:29:58,438 --> 00:30:01,638
Speaker 1: best pitcher and without their best everyday player.

619
00:30:03,158 --> 00:30:06,398
Speaker 3: Only if there's a nutrition component with the Phillies too.

620
00:30:06,518 --> 00:30:08,638
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, if they hate to say that, but

621
00:30:08,638 --> 00:30:10,198
Speaker 3: if somebody were to get injured there to kind of

622
00:30:10,238 --> 00:30:12,878
Speaker 3: level the playing field, you might see that. Otherwise, I

623
00:30:12,918 --> 00:30:16,038
Speaker 3: don't think so. I don't think they'll run them down, unless,

624
00:30:16,078 --> 00:30:18,518
Speaker 3: of course, it becomes leveled somehow. I mean, I know

625
00:30:18,558 --> 00:30:20,598
Speaker 3: the Phillies have lost a couple games on this road

626
00:30:20,638 --> 00:30:23,678
Speaker 3: trip whatever, but I watched them often here in Pennsylvania.

627
00:30:24,318 --> 00:30:27,118
Speaker 3: I just like the way they play. I like Philadelphia

628
00:30:27,118 --> 00:30:30,118
Speaker 3: Philly players. I like the old Philadelphia Philly players. Also,

629
00:30:30,478 --> 00:30:34,478
Speaker 3: I know the city's got this checkered pass regarding the

630
00:30:34,638 --> 00:30:37,438
Speaker 3: love and hate relationship with all their teams. But tell

631
00:30:37,478 --> 00:30:39,598
Speaker 3: you what, you gotta have some thick skin to play

632
00:30:39,598 --> 00:30:42,878
Speaker 3: in Philadelphia. And when you're good and you're playing in Philadelphia,

633
00:30:42,878 --> 00:30:45,278
Speaker 3: you know, these guys kind of they let it, like

634
00:30:45,358 --> 00:30:48,038
Speaker 3: just really fall off their back when things aren't going

635
00:30:48,078 --> 00:30:51,278
Speaker 3: well because they're tough guys. They really are. They're different,

636
00:30:51,998 --> 00:30:54,438
Speaker 3: and that Philly group is a bunch of tough guys.

637
00:30:54,598 --> 00:30:57,558
Speaker 3: I know several of them myself. So they're not going

638
00:30:57,638 --> 00:31:02,118
Speaker 3: to come back unless something happens, something dramatic happens, which

639
00:31:02,358 --> 00:31:06,478
Speaker 3: I'm not predicting. I'm just saying much prefer them staying healthy.

640
00:31:06,478 --> 00:31:09,398
Speaker 3: I think David's done a great job to Brosci there. Again,

641
00:31:09,598 --> 00:31:11,878
Speaker 3: Robbie's been perfect because of the way he goes about

642
00:31:11,878 --> 00:31:15,358
Speaker 3: his business every day. But I like the makeup of

643
00:31:15,398 --> 00:31:18,878
Speaker 3: the group from top to bottom. They support one another.

644
00:31:18,918 --> 00:31:20,958
Speaker 3: I saw a video of them the other day at

645
00:31:20,958 --> 00:31:23,398
Speaker 3: somebody's kids' birthday party. They were all there. I think

646
00:31:23,398 --> 00:31:25,878
Speaker 3: it was that's what it was. But they all showed up,

647
00:31:26,278 --> 00:31:29,878
Speaker 3: come on that doesn't happen. That doesn't happen with most teams.

648
00:31:30,638 --> 00:31:34,558
Speaker 3: They understand the importance of that kind of support. Day off,

649
00:31:34,718 --> 00:31:36,998
Speaker 3: get together, even for an hour or two hours, to

650
00:31:37,118 --> 00:31:40,518
Speaker 3: show up and show support for one another. That cannot

651
00:31:40,518 --> 00:31:44,958
Speaker 3: be underestimated. So without any kind of significant injury to

652
00:31:44,998 --> 00:31:47,118
Speaker 3: that group, I don't think the Braves can catch them.

653
00:31:47,518 --> 00:31:49,478
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up. About the Phillies.

654
00:31:49,718 --> 00:31:52,918
Speaker 1: They are a tough, close knit team, and that can

655
00:31:52,958 --> 00:31:55,518
Speaker 1: be a cliche, it's real. In this case, they've been

656
00:31:55,558 --> 00:31:58,918
Speaker 1: together for a while, so that helps. It's a team

657
00:31:58,958 --> 00:32:02,118
Speaker 1: that definitely fits the vibe of the city. And here's

658
00:32:02,158 --> 00:32:04,558
Speaker 1: a quick story for you. Talking to robson the other

659
00:32:04,638 --> 00:32:07,078
Speaker 1: day and he mentioned they had an off day in Miami,

660
00:32:07,318 --> 00:32:10,038
Speaker 1: and you know off days for baseball players on the road,

661
00:32:10,078 --> 00:32:13,038
Speaker 1: they're golden and guys tend to scatter do different things.

662
00:32:13,678 --> 00:32:16,198
Speaker 1: In this case, all the position players got together and

663
00:32:16,238 --> 00:32:19,838
Speaker 1: they went to the country club where Trey Turner is

664
00:32:19,878 --> 00:32:22,798
Speaker 1: a member, and they all played golf, and the pitchers

665
00:32:22,998 --> 00:32:25,558
Speaker 1: went to one of the relief pitchers homes the Miami

666
00:32:25,638 --> 00:32:27,318
Speaker 1: area and they played board games.

667
00:32:28,238 --> 00:32:30,878
Speaker 2: So the point is they hung out.

668
00:32:30,758 --> 00:32:36,358
Speaker 1: Together even when there was no game scheduled, So that

669
00:32:36,598 --> 00:32:39,198
Speaker 1: has the factor into how well they play on the field.

670
00:32:39,478 --> 00:32:40,798
Speaker 2: The fact they care about each other.

671
00:32:41,478 --> 00:32:44,478
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you see that a lot of times.

672
00:32:44,598 --> 00:32:46,958
Speaker 3: You know the Thus it was like coaching staff's getting

673
00:32:46,998 --> 00:32:49,638
Speaker 3: together a lot of times you have a team staff

674
00:32:49,678 --> 00:32:53,278
Speaker 3: dinner the night of an off day. You know that

675
00:32:53,358 --> 00:32:55,878
Speaker 3: in advance, you tell you asked your traveling secretary to

676
00:32:56,158 --> 00:32:57,998
Speaker 3: set up a good dinner somewhere, and you do, and

677
00:32:58,038 --> 00:32:59,838
Speaker 3: you go there. Man, I tell you what, you laugh,

678
00:33:00,078 --> 00:33:02,438
Speaker 3: you laugh, You should laugh. You should laugh for about

679
00:33:02,918 --> 00:33:08,078
Speaker 3: two hours at lead. So that's a big part of success.

680
00:33:08,638 --> 00:33:11,198
Speaker 3: Quite frankly, it is a really big part of success

681
00:33:11,718 --> 00:33:15,278
Speaker 3: when the groups come together away from the field. That

682
00:33:15,598 --> 00:33:19,198
Speaker 3: matters a lot. That was really important to me. I

683
00:33:19,238 --> 00:33:22,398
Speaker 3: loved when, like, say a catcher, but take the pitching

684
00:33:22,438 --> 00:33:24,118
Speaker 3: staff or go out with the pitching staff in that

685
00:33:24,158 --> 00:33:27,558
Speaker 3: situation too. Too. Again, it's just to furthest the conversation.

686
00:33:27,798 --> 00:33:32,718
Speaker 3: As an example, coaching staffs, Man, I've been involved in

687
00:33:32,758 --> 00:33:34,598
Speaker 3: a really bad dinner one night where it kind of

688
00:33:34,638 --> 00:33:38,118
Speaker 3: got ugly. I was years ago. But then again, we

689
00:33:38,158 --> 00:33:40,718
Speaker 3: had this wing place in Pittsburgh that we would go

690
00:33:40,798 --> 00:33:43,478
Speaker 3: to every time we got into Pittsburgh after a Sunday

691
00:33:43,478 --> 00:33:46,118
Speaker 3: afternoon again, we're playing there on Monday. Red Beers I

692
00:33:46,158 --> 00:33:47,598
Speaker 3: think it was called. We would go over to Red

693
00:33:47,638 --> 00:33:50,278
Speaker 3: Beers and we would just have beers and wings. Man,

694
00:33:50,598 --> 00:33:53,718
Speaker 3: I'm telling you out laugh. It's some funny guys. I

695
00:33:53,758 --> 00:33:58,318
Speaker 3: mean Tim Buss spearheaded it. Eric Kinsky was outstanding. A

696
00:33:58,358 --> 00:34:01,758
Speaker 3: couple of my socios are funny, funny guys, and you

697
00:34:01,838 --> 00:34:04,718
Speaker 3: look forward to it and it would carry you over,

698
00:34:04,758 --> 00:34:07,078
Speaker 3: spill over to the next dayge you'd carry on the conversation.

699
00:34:07,198 --> 00:34:09,918
Speaker 3: John Malee, John Maylee was great at those events. So

700
00:34:10,478 --> 00:34:13,998
Speaker 3: all that stuff was It's important, man. You don't ever

701
00:34:14,158 --> 00:34:17,358
Speaker 3: under estimate that everybody wants longer meetings. I want to

702
00:34:17,398 --> 00:34:19,038
Speaker 3: make sure that we go out as a group as

703
00:34:19,078 --> 00:34:20,318
Speaker 3: often as we possibly can.

704
00:34:20,838 --> 00:34:23,718
Speaker 2: Well, that sounds like a Netflix show. I would definitely watch.

705
00:34:23,838 --> 00:34:26,558
Speaker 3: Oh brother, it was hysterical. That's hysterical.

706
00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:29,758
Speaker 1: Hey, the Brave, as I mentioned, their pitching has been great.

707
00:34:29,878 --> 00:34:33,078
Speaker 1: Chris Sale has been amazing, you know, breaking down his stuff.

708
00:34:33,318 --> 00:34:35,718
Speaker 1: It's back to where he was competing for cy Young's.

709
00:34:35,718 --> 00:34:38,518
Speaker 1: There's no question about that. The only question is, you know,

710
00:34:38,558 --> 00:34:40,958
Speaker 1: he hasn't pitched a lot the last five years. You know,

711
00:34:41,078 --> 00:34:43,358
Speaker 1: does he maintain this stuff throughout the sixth months and

712
00:34:43,398 --> 00:34:46,518
Speaker 1: if you're the Braves, the seventh month, right although Lopez,

713
00:34:46,518 --> 00:34:48,678
Speaker 1: same thing, boy, that was a great pick up by

714
00:34:48,678 --> 00:34:50,958
Speaker 1: the Braves to put him into the rotation. The stuff

715
00:34:50,998 --> 00:34:53,758
Speaker 1: has been there, you know, dialed back on the v low,

716
00:34:53,838 --> 00:34:56,838
Speaker 1: the command has been better, and Max Freed lately has

717
00:34:56,878 --> 00:34:58,958
Speaker 1: just been lights out. That's a free agent to be

718
00:34:59,038 --> 00:35:01,198
Speaker 1: at the end of the year. I've always liked Max

719
00:35:01,238 --> 00:35:04,198
Speaker 1: Freed a lot. I'm surprised he has not been locked

720
00:35:04,278 --> 00:35:06,638
Speaker 1: up by the Braves by now, which tells me he

721
00:35:06,678 --> 00:35:09,358
Speaker 1: probably is pitching somewhere else next year, because when they

722
00:35:09,438 --> 00:35:12,678
Speaker 1: like it, they lock you up. And the key for

723
00:35:12,798 --> 00:35:15,558
Speaker 1: me Joe with the Braves is Matt Olsen, and especially

724
00:35:15,638 --> 00:35:19,198
Speaker 1: with Ronald Cuny Junior out, the power just hasn't been

725
00:35:19,238 --> 00:35:21,598
Speaker 1: there so far. This is a guy who put up

726
00:35:21,678 --> 00:35:24,558
Speaker 1: MVP numbers last year, you know, more than fifty home runs,

727
00:35:24,558 --> 00:35:28,638
Speaker 1: setting a franchise record. His slugging percentage on fastballs is

728
00:35:28,718 --> 00:35:32,318
Speaker 1: down almost two hundred points, and which is weird because

729
00:35:32,318 --> 00:35:36,998
Speaker 1: when I looked at his expected slugging against fastballs, which

730
00:35:37,038 --> 00:35:39,838
Speaker 1: tells you basically how lucky or unlucky he's been. How

731
00:35:39,878 --> 00:35:42,958
Speaker 1: hard he's hitting the ball, his expecting slugging is actually

732
00:35:43,078 --> 00:35:46,758
Speaker 1: higher this year than it was last year. So it

733
00:35:46,878 --> 00:35:49,798
Speaker 1: tells me Matt Olsen is going to be okay here,

734
00:35:49,918 --> 00:35:53,198
Speaker 1: that there's going to be some return to the mean,

735
00:35:53,238 --> 00:35:56,278
Speaker 1: if you will, in the positive direction. He's a power hitter.

736
00:35:56,478 --> 00:35:59,158
Speaker 1: I mean, Matt Olson's got tremendous power. He hits the

737
00:35:59,198 --> 00:36:01,598
Speaker 1: ball as high and far as anybody. The levers there

738
00:36:01,638 --> 00:36:05,598
Speaker 1: just work really well for Matt Olson. So I think

739
00:36:05,638 --> 00:36:09,558
Speaker 1: they're going to be fine again, I probably with six

740
00:36:09,638 --> 00:36:12,038
Speaker 1: games to make up on a really good Philadelphia team.

741
00:36:12,158 --> 00:36:15,998
Speaker 1: To me, that's a steep climb. But I wouldn't worry

742
00:36:15,998 --> 00:36:18,278
Speaker 1: about Matt Olson. And you saw him a lot in

743
00:36:18,318 --> 00:36:21,078
Speaker 1: the Oakland days too, Joe, I mean your take on

744
00:36:21,198 --> 00:36:24,118
Speaker 1: him and how he's made himself into a premier slugger.

745
00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:26,918
Speaker 3: I think he had one bad year when went off

746
00:36:26,958 --> 00:36:30,278
Speaker 3: here with Oakland, as I remember. Otherwise, God, you did

747
00:36:30,278 --> 00:36:33,358
Speaker 3: not want to see him coming up. He hits left these,

748
00:36:33,438 --> 00:36:36,118
Speaker 3: en Righty's, he hits left these actually really well. You

749
00:36:36,238 --> 00:36:39,918
Speaker 3: got several good left hand hitters, Tucker with Houston, Albres

750
00:36:39,958 --> 00:36:43,278
Speaker 3: with Houston, and then of course Olson with Atlanta. They

751
00:36:43,478 --> 00:36:45,918
Speaker 3: left on left. These guys are really really good. There's

752
00:36:45,918 --> 00:36:49,038
Speaker 3: no advantage to be gained. None, Sorry, there's no advantage

753
00:36:49,078 --> 00:36:51,318
Speaker 3: to be gained. So if he's not driving the ball,

754
00:36:51,318 --> 00:36:53,438
Speaker 3: I'm just curious that this. Is he hurt his hands

755
00:36:53,438 --> 00:36:55,478
Speaker 3: at all recently or has risked or anything in the

756
00:36:55,678 --> 00:36:58,558
Speaker 3: recent past. Is there anything been anything going on there?

757
00:36:58,798 --> 00:36:59,958
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing like that.

758
00:37:00,078 --> 00:37:02,238
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, the metrics seem to show

759
00:37:02,278 --> 00:37:05,438
Speaker 1: that he's still hitting the ball. The exit velo is

760
00:37:05,478 --> 00:37:09,238
Speaker 1: still the same. Just eight home runs for him. That's,

761
00:37:09,278 --> 00:37:11,278
Speaker 1: you know, a guy who should be a forty plus

762
00:37:11,278 --> 00:37:14,638
Speaker 1: home run guy. He's trailing in that department. Just that

763
00:37:14,718 --> 00:37:16,478
Speaker 1: the ball's not flying over the fence.

764
00:37:17,118 --> 00:37:19,358
Speaker 3: Well, if there's no injury involved, if there's nothing with

765
00:37:19,438 --> 00:37:20,838
Speaker 3: his hands or his wrist, like you said, though, the

766
00:37:20,918 --> 00:37:24,038
Speaker 3: numbers indicate that you should be well, it's just something.

767
00:37:24,158 --> 00:37:26,238
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe he's made a more concerned effort this year

768
00:37:26,238 --> 00:37:28,758
Speaker 3: to just drive the ball more to the parts of

769
00:37:28,758 --> 00:37:30,678
Speaker 3: the field. Does he more line drive oriented? Is he

770
00:37:30,718 --> 00:37:33,278
Speaker 3: trying to strike out list? I don't know. But if

771
00:37:33,278 --> 00:37:35,238
Speaker 3: he's well and he's not too old, he's going to

772
00:37:35,318 --> 00:37:37,518
Speaker 3: hit home runs. He's going to do it again. Maybe

773
00:37:37,518 --> 00:37:39,598
Speaker 3: the way he hits some balls well into the wind

774
00:37:40,478 --> 00:37:43,358
Speaker 3: that has been caught up. Possibly, I don't know. But

775
00:37:43,398 --> 00:37:47,158
Speaker 3: the guy's good. He's really good, and he's young enough

776
00:37:47,198 --> 00:37:49,678
Speaker 3: and he's not hurt. He'll hit his home runs well.

777
00:37:49,718 --> 00:37:52,478
Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top one of Joe's favorite topics

778
00:37:52,678 --> 00:37:56,118
Speaker 1: are umpires, and there was news in the umpiring world

779
00:37:56,238 --> 00:37:58,078
Speaker 1: that we must dive into.

780
00:37:58,158 --> 00:38:00,318
Speaker 2: And we'll do that right after this on the book

781
00:38:00,358 --> 00:38:13,718
Speaker 2: of Joe Angel Hernandez.

782
00:38:13,838 --> 00:38:16,878
Speaker 1: Just say that name Joe, and boy, you're gonna get

783
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:22,958
Speaker 1: a response from anybody in uniform, especially managers. Angel Hernandez

784
00:38:22,958 --> 00:38:27,398
Speaker 1: announced that he's done. He's retiring effective essentially immediately. He's

785
00:38:27,398 --> 00:38:30,518
Speaker 1: had some injuries the last couple of years. Obviously, he's

786
00:38:30,558 --> 00:38:34,558
Speaker 1: had fights with MLB about the fact that he has

787
00:38:34,638 --> 00:38:37,398
Speaker 1: not worked a World Series game in years and years

788
00:38:37,438 --> 00:38:40,238
Speaker 1: and years. Didn't think he was being promoted as he

789
00:38:40,278 --> 00:38:44,038
Speaker 1: should have. But Angel Hernandez, in his early sixties, is

790
00:38:44,118 --> 00:38:47,118
Speaker 1: done as a major league umpire, probably the most controversial

791
00:38:47,238 --> 00:38:50,558
Speaker 1: umpire you know. Well, Joe West was in that book too.

792
00:38:50,598 --> 00:38:55,518
Speaker 1: He's also no longer an active umpire. But listen, I'm Jared.

793
00:38:55,758 --> 00:38:57,758
Speaker 1: I'll say it to you I'll mention the name Angel

794
00:38:57,758 --> 00:38:59,958
Speaker 1: Hernandez and you tell me what comes to mind.

795
00:39:00,438 --> 00:39:04,598
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I liked Angel. I first met

796
00:39:04,678 --> 00:39:07,878
Speaker 3: him like one on one. We were with the Angels.

797
00:39:07,878 --> 00:39:10,038
Speaker 3: We were playing in Puerto Rico in two thousand and three,

798
00:39:10,118 --> 00:39:12,438
Speaker 3: right after the World Series, and he was part of

799
00:39:12,438 --> 00:39:15,198
Speaker 3: the group down there, Randy Marsha's group, and I remember

800
00:39:15,238 --> 00:39:17,838
Speaker 3: going out one night and ended up in a casino

801
00:39:18,438 --> 00:39:21,518
Speaker 3: and you know, dinner and all that kind of good stuff,

802
00:39:21,558 --> 00:39:22,958
Speaker 3: and I got to meet him and talk to him

803
00:39:22,958 --> 00:39:25,158
Speaker 3: like one on one. Him and his wife really enjoyed

804
00:39:25,158 --> 00:39:29,278
Speaker 3: the conversation, so that kind of like started our relationship,

805
00:39:30,158 --> 00:39:32,078
Speaker 3: you know, one on one human human away from the

806
00:39:32,078 --> 00:39:35,038
Speaker 3: baseball field. Liked it. Now, on the other hand, he

807
00:39:35,198 --> 00:39:38,278
Speaker 3: was obviously his judgment was not very good. I don't

808
00:39:38,478 --> 00:39:41,478
Speaker 3: whether it was on the basis or at home plate

809
00:39:41,518 --> 00:39:45,678
Speaker 3: it was. I don't exactly know why, but it was inconsistent,

810
00:39:45,718 --> 00:39:48,798
Speaker 3: There's no question about it. He was often paired with

811
00:39:48,918 --> 00:39:51,478
Speaker 3: Joe West, and I always thought that Joe was there

812
00:39:51,478 --> 00:39:54,598
Speaker 3: to protect him a lot. Joe takes some of the

813
00:39:54,638 --> 00:39:57,438
Speaker 3: heat off of Angel because he could. That was my interpretation.

814
00:39:57,518 --> 00:40:00,278
Speaker 3: I didn't think that they were able to choose their

815
00:40:00,278 --> 00:40:04,118
Speaker 3: own umpiring crew guys, I don't wouldn't think so. I

816
00:40:04,118 --> 00:40:09,238
Speaker 3: remember Joe and Angel always being paired up conversationally. Really

817
00:40:09,318 --> 00:40:12,038
Speaker 3: good guy like him a lot umpire wise. I was

818
00:40:12,078 --> 00:40:15,718
Speaker 3: always concerned only because it's not just against you. It's like,

819
00:40:16,238 --> 00:40:18,078
Speaker 3: you know you're going to get a good or a

820
00:40:18,078 --> 00:40:20,798
Speaker 3: good call working in your favor against the other team,

821
00:40:21,198 --> 00:40:22,678
Speaker 3: but then again, you know it's going to come back

822
00:40:22,678 --> 00:40:26,358
Speaker 3: and bite you too. So the inconsistency was always difficult

823
00:40:27,118 --> 00:40:29,958
Speaker 3: to deal with because you just knew it. And more

824
00:40:29,958 --> 00:40:33,038
Speaker 3: recently watching you know, videos of bad calls by him,

825
00:40:33,038 --> 00:40:36,878
Speaker 3: and you could almost see that the players didn't even respond.

826
00:40:36,918 --> 00:40:40,238
Speaker 3: They had been coached before. Listen, you're gonna get some

827
00:40:40,278 --> 00:40:42,918
Speaker 3: really bad calls. Don't react. It's gonna be the same

828
00:40:42,918 --> 00:40:45,398
Speaker 3: way for both sides, et cetera, et cetera. That's what

829
00:40:45,438 --> 00:40:47,838
Speaker 3: I thought I was seeing. And I know there was

830
00:40:47,878 --> 00:40:50,278
Speaker 3: a lot of complaints from Angel and his camp regarding

831
00:40:51,198 --> 00:40:53,158
Speaker 3: you know, World Series of working at certain times of

832
00:40:53,158 --> 00:40:54,678
Speaker 3: the year, but I thought they did a good job

833
00:40:54,678 --> 00:40:57,718
Speaker 3: of not permitting it. Now when it gets to you know,

834
00:40:57,798 --> 00:41:00,678
Speaker 3: on the basis, his calls could be fixed, but behind

835
00:41:00,718 --> 00:41:02,878
Speaker 3: home played it would be tough in a in a

836
00:41:02,918 --> 00:41:05,678
Speaker 3: big game, to going into that game that he's gonna

837
00:41:05,678 --> 00:41:08,078
Speaker 3: be working to play it be tough, just being honest.

838
00:41:08,118 --> 00:41:09,758
Speaker 3: So as a human being, as a guy, I really

839
00:41:09,878 --> 00:41:13,678
Speaker 3: enjoyed our conversations. We had some you know, decent lasts

840
00:41:13,758 --> 00:41:17,358
Speaker 3: years ago. But as an umpire, that's one thing that

841
00:41:17,398 --> 00:41:21,158
Speaker 3: I once it's tenured. Once, once you've been tenured, that's

842
00:41:21,198 --> 00:41:24,958
Speaker 3: the one thing I think should be discussed more is

843
00:41:25,038 --> 00:41:27,998
Speaker 3: that as an umpire becomes a major league umpire, if

844
00:41:28,078 --> 00:41:31,038
Speaker 3: his performance isn't good, why is he unable to be

845
00:41:31,158 --> 00:41:33,318
Speaker 3: sent back to the minor leagues. I mean, I understand

846
00:41:33,398 --> 00:41:35,878
Speaker 3: unions and everything else, but players can be sent back,

847
00:41:35,918 --> 00:41:39,358
Speaker 3: Coaches can be fired, managers can be fired. Umpires cannot.

848
00:41:39,758 --> 00:41:41,518
Speaker 3: I mean, those are the kind of things I think

849
00:41:41,558 --> 00:41:43,318
Speaker 3: if you put a little bit more pressure on some

850
00:41:43,398 --> 00:41:47,958
Speaker 3: guys possibly for the situation that they can be sent back,

851
00:41:48,518 --> 00:41:51,118
Speaker 3: if maybe just right down to their physical appearance, their

852
00:41:51,158 --> 00:41:54,398
Speaker 3: physical performance, and then you know, the performance regarding balls

853
00:41:54,398 --> 00:41:57,238
Speaker 3: and strikes become less than when you had been hired.

854
00:41:57,238 --> 00:41:59,958
Speaker 3: I think that's reasonable to think that you have to

855
00:41:59,958 --> 00:42:01,958
Speaker 3: be sent back to Triple A and work on some things.

856
00:42:01,958 --> 00:42:04,558
Speaker 3: Why not? So those are the kind of things within

857
00:42:04,598 --> 00:42:08,078
Speaker 3: the umpire industry i'd like to see addressed. But I'll

858
00:42:08,118 --> 00:42:10,918
Speaker 3: defend Angel one on one. I really enjoyed him as

859
00:42:10,958 --> 00:42:14,198
Speaker 3: an umpire. A lot of what you had heard was

860
00:42:14,438 --> 00:42:16,838
Speaker 3: kind of true. He just wasn't very good behind a plate.

861
00:42:17,078 --> 00:42:19,518
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Major League Baseball has all that data to

862
00:42:19,598 --> 00:42:20,638
Speaker 2: judge these umpires.

863
00:42:20,718 --> 00:42:23,638
Speaker 1: Last year, for instance, Angel Hernandez did work ten games

864
00:42:23,678 --> 00:42:26,998
Speaker 1: behind the plate. He was the lowest rated umpire in

865
00:42:27,038 --> 00:42:30,118
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. He was missing an average of sixteen

866
00:42:30,278 --> 00:42:33,438
Speaker 1: calls a game behind the plate. I mean, it just

867
00:42:34,038 --> 00:42:37,358
Speaker 1: it can't happen. But here's what's interesting to me, Joe,

868
00:42:37,518 --> 00:42:39,558
Speaker 1: and you mentioned maybe there should be some sort of

869
00:42:39,758 --> 00:42:45,318
Speaker 1: review process as guys performance lags. Looking at this year

870
00:42:45,678 --> 00:42:48,038
Speaker 1: and so far, looking you know, we're a third a

871
00:42:48,038 --> 00:42:51,198
Speaker 1: way through the season. Taking all the umpires who've worked

872
00:42:51,198 --> 00:42:54,198
Speaker 1: at least ten games, that's a pretty good rotation through

873
00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:58,438
Speaker 1: the league. The five best umpires, I'll give you them

874
00:42:58,438 --> 00:43:02,438
Speaker 1: an order in terms of their accuracy, Alan Porter, John Lipka,

875
00:43:02,678 --> 00:43:07,078
Speaker 1: Ben May, mac Tosi, and Mark Rippager. Here's their ages

876
00:43:07,638 --> 00:43:12,678
Speaker 1: forty six, thirty six, forty two, thirty six, forty three.

877
00:43:13,238 --> 00:43:16,878
Speaker 1: That's an average age of forty point six for the

878
00:43:16,878 --> 00:43:19,518
Speaker 1: five best umpires calling balls and strikes.

879
00:43:19,798 --> 00:43:21,318
Speaker 2: Now we're going to go to the bottom of the list.

880
00:43:21,798 --> 00:43:26,118
Speaker 1: Okay, the lowest rate in terms of accuracy, Manny Gonzalez,

881
00:43:26,238 --> 00:43:36,358
Speaker 1: Cebe Bunkner, Mark Esterbrook, Hunter wendelstat ages here are forty four,

882
00:43:36,518 --> 00:43:40,718
Speaker 1: sixty one, fifty two, forty seven and fifty two. I

883
00:43:40,838 --> 00:43:44,038
Speaker 1: left out I should mention Alfonso Marquez was in that group.

884
00:43:44,518 --> 00:43:48,558
Speaker 1: Average age of the bottom five fifty one point two.

885
00:43:48,918 --> 00:43:52,678
Speaker 1: So the top five average age forty point six, bottom

886
00:43:52,718 --> 00:43:56,518
Speaker 1: five average age fifty one point two. And remember I

887
00:43:56,558 --> 00:43:58,838
Speaker 1: talked about Angel Hernandez. You know he was in his

888
00:43:58,918 --> 00:44:03,118
Speaker 1: early sixties here retiring from MLB. There really is a

889
00:44:03,198 --> 00:44:05,838
Speaker 1: split here, you know, the younger generation. First of all,

890
00:44:05,878 --> 00:44:09,758
Speaker 1: they have younger eyes, for whatever that's worth. But they've

891
00:44:09,798 --> 00:44:12,158
Speaker 1: come up through a system where they've been graded by

892
00:44:12,198 --> 00:44:16,598
Speaker 1: this laser technology. They're calling the laser strike zone, not

893
00:44:16,678 --> 00:44:18,758
Speaker 1: their quote unquote owned strike zone.

894
00:44:19,278 --> 00:44:20,878
Speaker 2: And I think the way they run a game is

895
00:44:20,958 --> 00:44:21,878
Speaker 2: also different.

896
00:44:21,998 --> 00:44:26,158
Speaker 1: The younger umpire you can talk to them. The older

897
00:44:26,238 --> 00:44:30,078
Speaker 1: umpire is established. He's got you know, this idea of

898
00:44:30,198 --> 00:44:33,478
Speaker 1: that's his game, the game belongs to him, and he'll

899
00:44:33,558 --> 00:44:35,958
Speaker 1: run it and adjudicate it the way he sees fit.

900
00:44:36,558 --> 00:44:41,318
Speaker 1: I think the younger umpires are a lot less like that.

901
00:44:41,838 --> 00:44:43,878
Speaker 1: So that's what I see, Joe. We see that in

902
00:44:43,958 --> 00:44:47,118
Speaker 1: postseason assignments, the better rated umpires tend to be the

903
00:44:47,158 --> 00:44:49,838
Speaker 1: younger ones. I'm not saying that's across the board, but

904
00:44:49,878 --> 00:44:51,758
Speaker 1: I just gave you a quick example of how the

905
00:44:51,838 --> 00:44:54,518
Speaker 1: data is showing the younger umpires.

906
00:44:54,038 --> 00:44:55,998
Speaker 2: Are grading out better than the older ones.

907
00:44:56,718 --> 00:44:59,158
Speaker 3: No surprise. I've been an Alan Porter fan from the

908
00:44:59,158 --> 00:45:02,278
Speaker 3: moment I met the guy. I told one of the

909
00:45:02,358 --> 00:45:07,398
Speaker 3: umpire chiefs years ago, go this guy. I love Alan Porter.

910
00:45:07,598 --> 00:45:09,638
Speaker 3: You could talk to Alan. I thought he's very good

911
00:45:09,678 --> 00:45:11,398
Speaker 3: at what he did. But y'all, he could talk to him.

912
00:45:11,758 --> 00:45:15,958
Speaker 3: He didn't lose his mind very quickly, and it was

913
00:45:16,038 --> 00:45:18,798
Speaker 3: It was very very obvious to me. Ripping Sure. I'm

914
00:45:18,838 --> 00:45:21,158
Speaker 3: a big Rip fan too. A lot of those guys

915
00:45:21,158 --> 00:45:23,478
Speaker 3: been may the guys you spoke about, I could easily

916
00:45:23,478 --> 00:45:26,158
Speaker 3: see why they're in that top. And like you said,

917
00:45:26,358 --> 00:45:28,278
Speaker 3: a consistent threat among them is that you can talk

918
00:45:28,318 --> 00:45:31,998
Speaker 3: to these guys. There's not a quick trigger among them.

919
00:45:32,118 --> 00:45:34,758
Speaker 3: I agree with that one hundred percent. I can't even

920
00:45:34,838 --> 00:45:37,118
Speaker 3: imagine I mean one thing. First of all, I understand

921
00:45:37,118 --> 00:45:40,078
Speaker 3: one thing about umpires. You never sit down. Okay, think

922
00:45:40,078 --> 00:45:41,598
Speaker 3: about it. You never sit down there in the course

923
00:45:41,638 --> 00:45:43,918
Speaker 3: of a nine to any game that's you're standing up

924
00:45:43,958 --> 00:45:46,278
Speaker 3: the whole time, whether it's man have played on the bases,

925
00:45:46,678 --> 00:45:48,598
Speaker 3: and if you're behind the play, how many squads are

926
00:45:48,638 --> 00:45:52,318
Speaker 3: they doing in one game? That's dang. I mean, as

927
00:45:52,398 --> 00:45:54,358
Speaker 3: you got older, I mean, when I was sixty, there's

928
00:45:54,358 --> 00:45:56,798
Speaker 3: no way I want umpire a game. No way am

929
00:45:56,798 --> 00:45:59,118
Speaker 3: I going to get down on that crouch that many

930
00:45:59,118 --> 00:46:01,758
Speaker 3: times during the course of a major league game fifty five.

931
00:46:01,798 --> 00:46:03,278
Speaker 3: I didn't want fifty I didn't want to do it.

932
00:46:03,278 --> 00:46:06,238
Speaker 3: I mean, I get it, I get it, And a

933
00:46:06,278 --> 00:46:08,358
Speaker 3: part of it, I'd have to believe is just at

934
00:46:08,358 --> 00:46:11,798
Speaker 3: some point, these younger guys are still like chasing their

935
00:46:11,878 --> 00:46:14,158
Speaker 3: vocation a bit. They've always wanted to be a major

936
00:46:14,238 --> 00:46:16,678
Speaker 3: league umpire, they got a chance to be it, and

937
00:46:16,798 --> 00:46:19,638
Speaker 3: now they're still relatively young, and they're out there doing this.

938
00:46:20,118 --> 00:46:22,718
Speaker 3: You know, on a major league level, everything's exciting, so

939
00:46:22,758 --> 00:46:25,718
Speaker 3: forth and so on, Whereas guys that as you get older,

940
00:46:26,038 --> 00:46:29,158
Speaker 3: it's not as easy to garner that same kind of

941
00:46:29,278 --> 00:46:31,198
Speaker 3: enthusiasm I don't think to be able to have to

942
00:46:31,238 --> 00:46:34,038
Speaker 3: be out there every night. And again, you don't sit down,

943
00:46:34,398 --> 00:46:36,998
Speaker 3: you don't take a break, You're there the whole game.

944
00:46:38,398 --> 00:46:40,518
Speaker 3: It's got to be tough. I'm sorry, it's got to

945
00:46:40,558 --> 00:46:43,158
Speaker 3: be tough. So I get it, and it should be.

946
00:46:43,558 --> 00:46:46,758
Speaker 3: That's one part of our game that should be relegated

947
00:46:46,798 --> 00:46:49,678
Speaker 3: to a younger group, even to the point, I'll tell

948
00:46:49,678 --> 00:46:51,278
Speaker 3: you what I mean, if you wanted to keep older

949
00:46:51,278 --> 00:46:55,558
Speaker 3: guys around. Sorry, but okay, have played umpires and have

950
00:46:55,678 --> 00:46:57,398
Speaker 3: just guys that are not permitted to work to play

951
00:46:57,438 --> 00:46:59,558
Speaker 3: and only work the bases. I know that sounds nuts,

952
00:47:00,118 --> 00:47:02,558
Speaker 3: but and you don't want to work guys up by

953
00:47:02,598 --> 00:47:05,758
Speaker 3: having them work to play too often, especially again, if

954
00:47:05,958 --> 00:47:09,118
Speaker 3: you have a electronic strikes on, it's become moot. But

955
00:47:09,198 --> 00:47:10,758
Speaker 3: if we're going to continue the way we are, which

956
00:47:10,758 --> 00:47:13,958
Speaker 3: I hope, then you should maybe maybe possibly not permit

957
00:47:14,038 --> 00:47:16,918
Speaker 3: certain guys to work the plate, just have them on

958
00:47:16,958 --> 00:47:19,078
Speaker 3: the basis. I know that sounds crazy. I don't even

959
00:47:19,078 --> 00:47:21,358
Speaker 3: know how you would do something like that, but if

960
00:47:21,398 --> 00:47:25,078
Speaker 3: their calls could be fixed. In other words, so that's

961
00:47:25,118 --> 00:47:27,998
Speaker 3: another Pandora's box being opened, the can of worms. Whatever

962
00:47:27,998 --> 00:47:30,918
Speaker 3: you want to call it, but quite frankly, man, when

963
00:47:30,958 --> 00:47:34,558
Speaker 3: you get the lineup umpire assignments before the series begins,

964
00:47:35,198 --> 00:47:37,398
Speaker 3: I always wanted to know. I wanted to know. Then

965
00:47:37,438 --> 00:47:39,798
Speaker 3: you wanted to know who your pictures were on the

966
00:47:39,838 --> 00:47:43,438
Speaker 3: plate day for the umpire coming around, and who that's

967
00:47:43,478 --> 00:47:45,518
Speaker 3: going to be. And then you try to match up

968
00:47:45,558 --> 00:47:48,798
Speaker 3: low ball picture, high ball pitch or whatever. Is he wide?

969
00:47:48,918 --> 00:47:52,198
Speaker 3: Is he narrow? I'm telling you, man, I thought about

970
00:47:52,198 --> 00:47:54,998
Speaker 3: that because you knew characteristics of each umpire before they

971
00:47:54,998 --> 00:47:56,678
Speaker 3: got behind the plate. You knew that, and of course

972
00:47:56,718 --> 00:48:00,878
Speaker 3: you knew your picture and sometimes it became even more

973
00:48:00,878 --> 00:48:03,118
Speaker 3: difficult before the game. You just knew you're in for

974
00:48:03,158 --> 00:48:04,118
Speaker 3: an argument that night.

975
00:48:04,398 --> 00:48:06,678
Speaker 2: Listen. I'm a big fan of umpires. I think they

976
00:48:06,758 --> 00:48:08,238
Speaker 2: do an amazing job.

977
00:48:08,478 --> 00:48:10,998
Speaker 1: I don't want to see the robo strikes home because

978
00:48:11,598 --> 00:48:14,278
Speaker 1: I have such appreciation for what they do behind the plate.

979
00:48:14,358 --> 00:48:16,958
Speaker 1: And I bring up, you know, some of the umpire

980
00:48:17,038 --> 00:48:19,718
Speaker 1: ratings here and they're not official, it's just a guideline,

981
00:48:20,158 --> 00:48:23,838
Speaker 1: but I brought it up just essentially to underscore the

982
00:48:23,918 --> 00:48:25,758
Speaker 1: difference with the younger umpires.

983
00:48:25,798 --> 00:48:28,518
Speaker 2: I think, being trained in this regard, they're really good.

984
00:48:29,118 --> 00:48:32,758
Speaker 1: So it's one aspect of the game, where you know,

985
00:48:32,838 --> 00:48:34,758
Speaker 1: I think guys can come in without a lot of

986
00:48:34,838 --> 00:48:37,558
Speaker 1: experience and be really good calling balls and strikes. So

987
00:48:38,118 --> 00:48:41,358
Speaker 1: it's more about complimenting the younger guys and knocking the

988
00:48:41,438 --> 00:48:44,158
Speaker 1: older guys for me, because I have tremendous respect for

989
00:48:44,238 --> 00:48:45,918
Speaker 1: all of them, and Joe, I'm glad you mentioned the

990
00:48:45,918 --> 00:48:49,718
Speaker 1: fact that just the physical nature, whether you're younger or older,

991
00:48:50,118 --> 00:48:51,678
Speaker 1: it's so tough on these guys.

992
00:48:51,718 --> 00:48:51,918
Speaker 2: Now.

993
00:48:51,958 --> 00:48:55,038
Speaker 1: Think about what catchers are doing with pitch framing, and

994
00:48:55,078 --> 00:48:57,198
Speaker 1: I know, Joe, when you were coming up, there was

995
00:48:57,238 --> 00:48:59,918
Speaker 1: an emphasis on how to receive the ball, but it's

996
00:48:59,958 --> 00:49:03,518
Speaker 1: gone next level now with framing. It's just unbelievable, the

997
00:49:03,558 --> 00:49:06,758
Speaker 1: emphasis on presenting a ball to make it look like

998
00:49:06,798 --> 00:49:08,878
Speaker 1: a strike, so you've got that sleight of hand going

999
00:49:08,918 --> 00:49:11,318
Speaker 1: on behind the plate if you're an umpire. We're seeing

1000
00:49:11,438 --> 00:49:14,598
Speaker 1: velocity go up every year. The average fastball now ninety

1001
00:49:14,598 --> 00:49:17,238
Speaker 1: four point one miles per hour. We're seeing more spin

1002
00:49:17,318 --> 00:49:20,838
Speaker 1: in the game today. The job is tougher than ever.

1003
00:49:20,998 --> 00:49:23,158
Speaker 1: So I have nothing but respect for these guys and

1004
00:49:23,358 --> 00:49:26,838
Speaker 1: I want them to continue calling balls and strikes and

1005
00:49:26,918 --> 00:49:30,038
Speaker 1: not go all automated, because I think we need the

1006
00:49:30,118 --> 00:49:32,318
Speaker 1: human element in the game, there's no question about it.

1007
00:49:32,358 --> 00:49:33,638
Speaker 2: Would I be in favor.

1008
00:49:33,358 --> 00:49:35,998
Speaker 1: Of the replay system they tried in the minor leagues

1009
00:49:36,118 --> 00:49:38,198
Speaker 1: or have tried. Yeah, I don't have a problem with

1010
00:49:38,278 --> 00:49:40,758
Speaker 1: maybe checking two or three calls a game. If it's

1011
00:49:40,798 --> 00:49:43,438
Speaker 1: bases loaded ninth inning, you know, three to two count,

1012
00:49:43,478 --> 00:49:45,398
Speaker 1: that's a huge call you want to get right, just

1013
00:49:45,438 --> 00:49:48,038
Speaker 1: like the calls and the bases. But if it's limited

1014
00:49:48,318 --> 00:49:50,758
Speaker 1: to very quickly two or three calls a game, I'm

1015
00:49:50,798 --> 00:49:53,278
Speaker 1: okay with that. But on the whole, you know, these

1016
00:49:53,358 --> 00:49:56,838
Speaker 1: umpires deserve all of our praise because you know, when

1017
00:49:56,838 --> 00:49:59,798
Speaker 1: I'm talking about highly rated or lower rated umpires, it's

1018
00:49:59,838 --> 00:50:03,678
Speaker 1: really not a great difference in their grading when you

1019
00:50:03,718 --> 00:50:05,958
Speaker 1: look at the percentage they get called right, which is

1020
00:50:05,998 --> 00:50:08,718
Speaker 1: amazing when you think about the stuff pitchers that bring

1021
00:50:08,718 --> 00:50:11,438
Speaker 1: into the mound and the way catchers receive the ball.

1022
00:50:11,718 --> 00:50:14,118
Speaker 3: I've always said, also, and I agree with you, ours

1023
00:50:14,238 --> 00:50:16,318
Speaker 3: is the best officiated game. I think it's the most

1024
00:50:16,358 --> 00:50:19,838
Speaker 3: consistent officiated game of them all. Basketball is impossible. From

1025
00:50:19,838 --> 00:50:21,278
Speaker 3: what I can see. In football, there could be a

1026
00:50:21,278 --> 00:50:24,958
Speaker 3: penalty on every play. So I've often thought that, yes,

1027
00:50:25,078 --> 00:50:29,198
Speaker 3: our umpires are the best of all professional arbiters. I mean,

1028
00:50:29,238 --> 00:50:31,958
Speaker 3: they just they just are. They're really that good. It's

1029
00:50:31,998 --> 00:50:34,278
Speaker 3: just when you really start breaking it down, like we're

1030
00:50:34,278 --> 00:50:36,798
Speaker 3: talking about at some point, man just knowing your own

1031
00:50:36,798 --> 00:50:39,798
Speaker 3: physical limitations as you get older, which you can and

1032
00:50:39,878 --> 00:50:42,558
Speaker 3: cannot do. Of course, there were some I mean even

1033
00:50:42,598 --> 00:50:44,838
Speaker 3: like I'll defend Joe West. Joe West was really good, right,

1034
00:50:45,558 --> 00:50:47,998
Speaker 3: you know, almost at the very end, Joe West was outstanding,

1035
00:50:47,998 --> 00:50:50,118
Speaker 3: and you wanted Joe West. I mean there was a

1036
00:50:50,118 --> 00:50:52,438
Speaker 3: lot of theatrics going on, but you wanted Joe umpiring

1037
00:50:52,438 --> 00:50:55,558
Speaker 3: big games because you knew it was totally unbiased, and

1038
00:50:55,598 --> 00:50:57,878
Speaker 3: you knew that he was very good at balls and strikes.

1039
00:50:57,918 --> 00:50:59,318
Speaker 3: He was really good. He was gonna take charge of

1040
00:50:59,358 --> 00:51:01,678
Speaker 3: the game. He might once in a while do some

1041
00:51:01,758 --> 00:51:04,918
Speaker 3: things that upset you, but nevertheless I felt good when

1042
00:51:04,918 --> 00:51:06,598
Speaker 3: he umpired a game because I thought he was good.

1043
00:51:06,918 --> 00:51:09,038
Speaker 3: I thought he was good. There's like a and I

1044
00:51:09,038 --> 00:51:11,718
Speaker 3: guess the biggest thing is about behind the plate when

1045
00:51:11,758 --> 00:51:15,758
Speaker 3: we start evaluating umpires. I mean, on the basis, you

1046
00:51:15,878 --> 00:51:17,918
Speaker 3: never really worried about whether a guy was good based

1047
00:51:17,998 --> 00:51:19,638
Speaker 3: umpire or not. You're always worried whether or not he

1048
00:51:19,678 --> 00:51:22,198
Speaker 3: was a good plate umpire and that's where the discussions

1049
00:51:22,198 --> 00:51:27,198
Speaker 3: would come in. So that's I think where MLB's umpiring

1050
00:51:27,238 --> 00:51:30,678
Speaker 3: has really gotten better. They have, like you said, the

1051
00:51:30,758 --> 00:51:32,878
Speaker 3: guys that are coming up them and taught in a

1052
00:51:32,918 --> 00:51:36,758
Speaker 3: way where you know, back then umpire the the standards

1053
00:51:36,758 --> 00:51:39,678
Speaker 3: and the way umpires were taught because I was around

1054
00:51:40,158 --> 00:51:42,758
Speaker 3: many of the guys that did that in the minor leagues.

1055
00:51:42,918 --> 00:51:46,838
Speaker 3: There were the teachers and they got the supervisors. It's different, obviously,

1056
00:51:46,838 --> 00:51:48,358
Speaker 3: and I think you are they are more precise, and

1057
00:51:48,398 --> 00:51:51,118
Speaker 3: I agree with that one hundred percent, but it's a tough,

1058
00:51:51,238 --> 00:51:54,798
Speaker 3: tough job. There's still the best in all of sports

1059
00:51:55,038 --> 00:51:58,478
Speaker 3: is our game and how it's umpired. But again, as

1060
00:51:58,478 --> 00:52:00,558
Speaker 3: you get older, man, I don't know why you want

1061
00:52:00,598 --> 00:52:03,678
Speaker 3: to do it. It's just it's just increasingly more difficult,

1062
00:52:04,198 --> 00:52:06,838
Speaker 3: and like you're saying, with the add of velocity and

1063
00:52:06,878 --> 00:52:11,638
Speaker 3: everything else. But last point, catcher's framing. If back then

1064
00:52:11,838 --> 00:52:14,958
Speaker 3: the umpire has had a lot more cachet with this stuff.

1065
00:52:14,998 --> 00:52:17,638
Speaker 3: If you're a catcher was pulling pitches the way catchers

1066
00:52:17,678 --> 00:52:19,758
Speaker 3: pull pitches right, and I promise you you're not going

1067
00:52:19,798 --> 00:52:21,638
Speaker 3: to get them. They would just tell you to stop

1068
00:52:21,678 --> 00:52:24,358
Speaker 3: doing it. They would stop doing it. Now you can't

1069
00:52:24,398 --> 00:52:28,358
Speaker 3: because it's going to be somehow disputed via all the

1070
00:52:28,398 --> 00:52:31,918
Speaker 3: different technology involved. But if an umpire thought you were

1071
00:52:31,958 --> 00:52:35,878
Speaker 3: really pulling stuff, you get that in your ear real quick,

1072
00:52:35,998 --> 00:52:40,238
Speaker 3: don't do it. Stop doing that. And I don't believe

1073
00:52:40,278 --> 00:52:43,158
Speaker 3: that happens anymore today because it's a part of the landscape.

1074
00:52:43,398 --> 00:52:43,958
Speaker 2: Real quick.

1075
00:52:43,998 --> 00:52:47,078
Speaker 1: As many times as you were ejected Joe Madden, did

1076
00:52:47,158 --> 00:52:48,518
Speaker 1: Angel Hernandez get you?

1077
00:52:48,598 --> 00:52:51,118
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Angel got me. I think a couple

1078
00:52:51,078 --> 00:52:54,678
Speaker 3: of times. There was one really classical one that actually

1079
00:52:54,718 --> 00:52:57,358
Speaker 3: Joe West got me because it was at that time

1080
00:52:57,438 --> 00:53:01,038
Speaker 3: when they weren't permitting time out and we're playing in

1081
00:53:01,038 --> 00:53:04,278
Speaker 3: Toronto and Carlos Pena, I thought called time. I'm well

1082
00:53:04,318 --> 00:53:08,798
Speaker 3: in advance and Angel's behind the plate and he did

1083
00:53:08,838 --> 00:53:11,838
Speaker 3: not give the time out. Pitches called a strike and

1084
00:53:11,918 --> 00:53:14,038
Speaker 3: I went crazy. So I go out there and I

1085
00:53:14,038 --> 00:53:16,918
Speaker 3: started yelling at Angel and I'm telling and I'm pointing

1086
00:53:16,958 --> 00:53:20,598
Speaker 3: at Joe West simultaneously because I told Angel, do not

1087
00:53:20,758 --> 00:53:25,758
Speaker 3: permit him Joe to umpire for you, basically because they

1088
00:53:25,758 --> 00:53:28,718
Speaker 3: know Joe was really big on that time stuff and

1089
00:53:28,358 --> 00:53:31,198
Speaker 3: he was in charge of that group, so they're not

1090
00:53:31,238 --> 00:53:33,638
Speaker 3: going to put up with that. So I went back

1091
00:53:33,638 --> 00:53:35,438
Speaker 3: and forth with Angel. Then it finally went out to

1092
00:53:35,518 --> 00:53:37,998
Speaker 3: Joe and I told him. You know, I'm not going

1093
00:53:37,998 --> 00:53:39,918
Speaker 3: to tell you exactly what I told him, but pretty

1094
00:53:39,998 --> 00:53:42,838
Speaker 3: much I'm yelling at him for his influence on Angel.

1095
00:53:43,158 --> 00:53:45,998
Speaker 3: That was stet was my argument. And so I got

1096
00:53:46,078 --> 00:53:49,998
Speaker 3: kicked out by Joe via a call made by Angel.

1097
00:53:50,918 --> 00:53:54,278
Speaker 1: I love it well, the last call always belongs to you,

1098
00:53:54,398 --> 00:53:56,958
Speaker 1: Joe Madden. So how are you going to take us

1099
00:53:56,958 --> 00:53:59,478
Speaker 1: out here for this episode of the Book of Joe?

1100
00:53:59,838 --> 00:54:04,318
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, for me, a real substantial sports figure,

1101
00:54:04,398 --> 00:54:08,678
Speaker 3: personality athlete passed away, Bill Walton. You know, i'd even

1102
00:54:08,678 --> 00:54:11,158
Speaker 3: realize he had been that ill with cancer. You know,

1103
00:54:11,198 --> 00:54:14,238
Speaker 3: growing up as a kid the UCLA group coach Woulden

1104
00:54:14,878 --> 00:54:17,318
Speaker 3: and what he did Walton when he went up to

1105
00:54:17,478 --> 00:54:20,958
Speaker 3: eventually Portland, all the injuries he had to put up with,

1106
00:54:20,998 --> 00:54:23,958
Speaker 3: then eventually how substantial that team became. And then he

1107
00:54:23,998 --> 00:54:27,958
Speaker 3: goes to Boston any places for the Celtics, and how

1108
00:54:27,958 --> 00:54:31,558
Speaker 3: about getting coached by coach Woulden and also read Auerbach,

1109
00:54:31,918 --> 00:54:34,278
Speaker 3: I don't read wasn't the coach, but he was there

1110
00:54:33,918 --> 00:54:37,398
Speaker 3: and probably the reason why Walton even showed up back there.

1111
00:54:37,918 --> 00:54:43,598
Speaker 3: Such an incredible talent, wonderful personality, definitely went by the

1112
00:54:43,598 --> 00:54:46,158
Speaker 3: beat of his own drummer, and I really respect him

1113
00:54:46,158 --> 00:54:49,038
Speaker 3: for that. How he got caught up with the grateful dead,

1114
00:54:49,478 --> 00:54:51,078
Speaker 3: and how he lived his life. I mean, a lot

1115
00:54:51,118 --> 00:54:53,078
Speaker 3: of people probably would not agree with a lot of

1116
00:54:53,078 --> 00:54:55,278
Speaker 3: the stuff, but quite frankly, it didn't matter to him.

1117
00:54:55,358 --> 00:54:58,998
Speaker 3: He was definitely following his own intercompass, his own inner

1118
00:54:59,078 --> 00:55:02,198
Speaker 3: piece and what he thought, And how could you not

1119
00:55:02,358 --> 00:55:04,358
Speaker 3: like the guy? And as an announcer was very colorful

1120
00:55:04,358 --> 00:55:07,478
Speaker 3: and entertaining. But I got this thing from Ralph Waldo

1121
00:55:08,078 --> 00:55:11,918
Speaker 3: Emerson that I think pretty much sums up Bill Walton,

1122
00:55:12,078 --> 00:55:14,198
Speaker 3: and that is to be yourself in a world that

1123
00:55:14,318 --> 00:55:17,918
Speaker 3: is constantly trying to make you something else is the

1124
00:55:17,958 --> 00:55:20,598
Speaker 3: greatest accomplishment. And I think that's what he did. He

1125
00:55:20,638 --> 00:55:23,558
Speaker 3: was able to remain himself to a lot of different situations,

1126
00:55:24,198 --> 00:55:27,478
Speaker 3: and I just know, I think I was in his

1127
00:55:27,558 --> 00:55:32,158
Speaker 3: company one time. But he was such a large personality

1128
00:55:32,878 --> 00:55:35,478
Speaker 3: and he heard a lot of different things, especially when

1129
00:55:35,518 --> 00:55:38,278
Speaker 3: he was injured in Portland, from the locals there, but

1130
00:55:38,318 --> 00:55:41,598
Speaker 3: he stayed with it and he stay true to himself,

1131
00:55:41,638 --> 00:55:43,718
Speaker 3: and I love that. I love when somebody stays true

1132
00:55:43,758 --> 00:55:47,518
Speaker 3: to himself. And that's really what made me a big

1133
00:55:47,558 --> 00:55:51,078
Speaker 3: fan of Bill Walton is how he backed up what

1134
00:55:51,158 --> 00:55:51,878
Speaker 3: he talked about.

1135
00:55:52,238 --> 00:55:54,718
Speaker 1: Oh that's an excellent call, Joe, and I never met

1136
00:55:54,718 --> 00:55:57,398
Speaker 1: the man, but just based on what I've read and

1137
00:55:57,678 --> 00:56:01,598
Speaker 1: seen heard from Bill Walton, we should all enjoy and

1138
00:56:01,678 --> 00:56:05,558
Speaker 1: love life as much as he did. That's right, that's right,

1139
00:56:05,678 --> 00:56:07,478
Speaker 1: Great job, Joe. We'll see you next time on the.

1140
00:56:07,478 --> 00:56:09,278
Speaker 3: Book of Joe YouTube brother Thanks.

1141
00:56:16,838 --> 00:56:20,078
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1142
00:56:20,318 --> 00:56:25,278
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1143
00:56:25,398 --> 00:56:27,158
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.