1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't know about y'all, 2 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: but throughout my life, I've been around people that have 3 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: some level of perhaps notoriety. I've been around people that 4 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: when you see them, they look like they stepped right 5 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: out of the pages of some fashion magazine and whatnot. 6 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: And I think half the world is envious of these 7 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: types of people, maybe the life that they lead, being 8 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: able to jet set all over places, mingle with other 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: pretty people. As they say. I've often said, having done 10 00:00:54,120 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: autopsies on both the rich and the poor, everybody's blood 11 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: is just as red. Today, I want to reflect on 12 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: a case that I started covering back in twenty fourteen 13 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: when I was appearing on hl N. It is something 14 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: that has caught my attention this past week, and it 15 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: is the revelation that a one Oscar Pastorius is going 16 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: to be turned back loose on society after less than 17 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: a decade of being incarcerated for the brutal homicide of 18 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Reevesteinkamp. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is 19 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: Body Backs. I started covering his case back in the 20 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen and you recovered Wall True Crime and went 21 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: in many times on this particular topic. Actually, I remember 22 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: covering it specifically with my buddy, with my buddy Annie Politan, 23 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, many works over TV now and he and 24 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: I covered this case for months, and it was it 25 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: was a weird, a weird kind of thing because it's 26 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: obviously this case originates out of South Africa, and it's 27 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: the way they do things is completely different from a 28 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: judicial standpoint than the way we do things here in 29 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: the state. First off, did you know that in South 30 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: Africa your your case is not heard by jury, Your 31 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: case is heard by the judge, and it's heard by 32 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: what I referred to as two assessors, and they're kind 33 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: of pseudo judges, you know, that sit in judgment of 34 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: this thing, and it was so complicated, and they would 35 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: do these long pauses in you know, when you're in 36 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: the midst of the trial, and for the most part 37 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: in the American system, things just go boom boom boom. 38 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: And maybe it would not have been a big deal. 39 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: But you're talking about Oscar Pistorias, who I know that 40 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: you have covered over the years. You've covered him even 41 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,839 Speaker 1: outside of this homicide, relative to some of the things 42 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: that he was involved in in the legal system. 43 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: For eight or ten years, Joe Week covered the legal 44 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: wrangling of Oscar Pistorius. The man was nicknamed the blade 45 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: Runner because of the prosthetic legs he used for running. 46 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: When he was eleven months old, both of his legs 47 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: were amputated halfway between his knee and ankle. He became 48 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 2: an accomplished athlete. He competed in the two thousand and 49 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: four Paralympic Games. He ran in both non disabled sprint 50 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: events that would allow him, and of course, competed in 51 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: sprint events for below knee amputees. Pistorius had to fight 52 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: his legal battles away from the track just to be 53 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: allowed to compete in the non disabled sprint events. He 54 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: was ruled ineligible for the two thousand and eight Beijing Olympics, 55 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: but he continued his legal fight and was allowed to 56 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: race in the twenty twelve Summer Olympics in London. The 57 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: claim was that Pistorias's artificial limbs gave him an advantage 58 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: over runners with natural ankles and feet. He runs with 59 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: a J shaped carbon fiber prosthetic called the flex foot Cheetah. Now, 60 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: he was not the first athlete to compete at both 61 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: Paralympic Games and Olympic Games. But Pistorias competed in the 62 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: twenty twelve Olympic Games that were held in London, so 63 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: he had become at this particular moment, probably the most 64 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: famous athlete in the world. And at the height of 65 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: this fame, five months after the Olympics ended, he's accused 66 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: of shooting and killing his twenty nine year old girlfriend, 67 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: Reeves Steenkamp. Joe, can you explain why Oscar Pistorius had 68 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 2: to have his legs amputated below the knee when he 69 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 2: was only eleven months old. 70 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a congenital defect. He was born with 71 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: this malformation, if you will. And here's the reality that 72 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: win his physics at the time. These neonatal surgeons, you know, 73 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: we're taking a look at him, and I'm sure that 74 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: they did a consult with doctors that work with people 75 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: who might have an opportunity to have a full life 76 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: relative to therapy that they could go through. They saw 77 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: that it was an untenable situation physically for him, that 78 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: there's no recovery because you're absent the skeletal structure in 79 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: order to support your body weight, not to mention your 80 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: ability to you're not going to participate in athletics in 81 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: the sense that someone that was born with fully developed 82 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: legs and limbs might have the opportunity to. And so 83 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: what the decision that was made early on in his 84 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: life is that they would amputate his feet. And I 85 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: think that there were multiple surgeries so that at the 86 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: end of the day he he's left literally depended upon 87 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: prosthetics for the rest of his life. 88 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 2: But when it says that the outside of the feet 89 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: we're missing, are we talking like from if I draw 90 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: a line in the middle of my foot and just 91 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: take out from the second toe over to the right 92 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: kind of thing or left, depending on what. But is 93 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: that the outside we're talking about? The bones and everything else. 94 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: Is well, it's not it with him, It wasn't just 95 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: the bones of the feet. He was actually missing his 96 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: fibula in both lower legs. It's the tib fib that 97 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: you're looking at. You know, when these these bones are 98 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, people hear about fractures and the fibula. Okay, 99 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: just so that people understand, the tibia is in the 100 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: lower leg. The tibia is the more robust of the 101 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: two bones. So you have running down the midline. If 102 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: you put your hands on your knees, okay, and you 103 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: begin to move down your leg, you'll feel actually your tibia. 104 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: That's the it feels, no pun intended, it feels it 105 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: has like a bleed like edge on the outer facing 106 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: antier surface. On the outer aspect, you actually have the 107 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: fibula or fibulae if you're talking about both. And he 108 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: was missing these bones, Dave, and so when these surgeries 109 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: took place on him as a child, they knew that 110 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: he's absent that. So just think about it. If you 111 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: and I were building a structure relative to I don't know, 112 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: let's just think about a bridge, and you've got these 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: pilings that support the bridge that go down into the 114 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: surface of the water or the river, you know, whatever 115 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about. The bridge isn't going to stand too 116 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: long if you have insufficient piling structures that are supporting this. 117 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: And so they felt as though the surgeons they did 118 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: at that point in time, that it would be better 119 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: to go ahead and amputate what remained this kind of 120 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: malformed tissue, to take it off and have him Remember, 121 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: he doesn't know how to walk at this price old, 122 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: and he's going to have to adapt throughout life, and 123 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: my gosh, he sure did adapt, didn't he. And he's 124 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: totally depended upon prosthetics for the rest of his life. 125 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: The reason I wanted to be clear on this is 126 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: because the night Miss Steenkamp was murdered, he didn't put 127 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: his prosthetic legs on right. 128 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 3: He was actually. 129 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: And I hate to say this because I feel like 130 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: I'm really being mean and I'm not. I'm using the 131 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: term that he's used. He was walking on his stumps. 132 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: This is actually a discussion that I had in studio Dave. Look, 133 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: I was new to TV. I had just finished covering 134 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: Jody Areas and then they said we want you to 135 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: do Blade Runner. I was like, oh, okay, I'll do it. 136 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: And now so you did Jody Arias, Dylan RedWine and 137 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: Oscar Pist story is in your first twelve Oh yeah, 138 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: being involved in the meeting. 139 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: Oh and that's not the only thing I did. Trayvon 140 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: Martin too, and that was like that was all thrown 141 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: at me at one time. But this case was very 142 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: intriguing to me, and so I would go to the 143 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: studio in downtown Atlanta and you know, proceed to cover 144 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: the case. Well, when there's this moment in trial where 145 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: Pistorius is told to stand in court without his prosthetics on, 146 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: and he is literally standing on what remains of these legs. Well, 147 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: the producer at the time at HLN slash CNN, they said, okay, 148 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: you need to talk about his stumps. And I was like, whoa, whoa, 149 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm not using that term on air. They said, no, no, 150 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: he refers to these as his stumps. The medical community 151 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: refers to these as his stumps. And I'm like, you man, 152 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh my god, I'm going to get pilloried. 153 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to get people are going to say I'm cruel, 154 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: I'm mean. And they were like, no, you're not. Go 155 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: ahead and plow on through it. And I got to 156 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: thinking about it. It's like, well, what else am I 157 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: going to call absent legs? I don't know. So I 158 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: literally had to use this term. And I know people 159 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: are hearing my voice. They're saying, Morgan, so gutless. While 160 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: look the world that we live in, we lived in 161 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: then and even now that we live in. You know, 162 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh my god, how's this going to be perceived? 163 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: But that was the reality, and he did function without 164 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: his prosthetics on, and that is a big part of 165 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: this case, Dave. When I saw him in court, he's 166 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: standing there and he is on his stumps because they're 167 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: trying to get a height, a height ratio relative to 168 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: him and this door that will come into play in 169 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: a bit. They're trying to understand the relationship height twise 170 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: with him, because it's a bone of contention in this case. 171 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: If he had his prosthetics on, he's going to be 172 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: at a different height, I think with his his blades on, 173 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: which are different than the regular prosthetics that he wore. 174 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: With his blades on, he comes in at almost six 175 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: foot three. With his regular everyday prosthetics, it's like six ' two. 176 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: But you take these things off of him and he's 177 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: down like a foot and a half at this point 178 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: in time. So there is a huge height differential between 179 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: these two things. And one of the things that we 180 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: look at when we're examining cases, we're trying to determine 181 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: height relationships. We're trying to determine directionality of weapons that 182 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: are fired. And I don't know in my history of 183 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: covering cases that I have ever had a case where 184 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: that was such a key A lot of folks think 185 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: that Valentine's Day is a day that's created by greeting 186 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: cards companies and chocolate companies. I'll tell you I dig 187 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day. I like surprising my wife every year. You know, 188 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: we go out to a nice supper and I always 189 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: get flowers. It's fun to me. I enjoy it. And 190 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: it's not too far away from my wedding anniversary as well. 191 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: So we got a whole month of love in our 192 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: house during February, and I've always made a big deal 193 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: out of it. I'm a romantic at heart. But I 194 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: got to tell you, Dave. On Valentine's Day twenty thirteen, 195 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what my wife and I were doing, 196 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: but I know what Oscar Pastorius and revastein Caamp were doing. 197 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: They were fighting. 198 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: Apparently they had only been dating ninety days. The infatuation 199 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: level should still be there heading into Valentine's Day with 200 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: somebody that you're really infatuated with and leaning towards that, 201 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: saying I love you out loud and all that. That's 202 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 2: where they were. Revastein Camp even send him a text 203 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: message saying is much so? How did it get so bad? 204 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: But their relationship really had apparently been a whirlwind, very fast, 205 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: but it was also filled with some very scary outbursts 206 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: from Oscar Pistorius towards Reavestine camp and again ninety days, 207 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 2: that's all we're talking about in terms of their relationship. 208 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: I would have thought Valentine's Day three months in would 209 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 2: have been you know, sunshine, rainbows, unicorns and flowers and 210 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: just beautiful sweet things. And that is not what we're 211 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: talking about here. 212 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: We cover a lot of things on body bags that 213 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: all lead back to domestic disputes, and this is no different. 214 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: And you are on the money with this, because it 215 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: was such a very short period of time that they 216 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: had been together. How could you have this much disdain 217 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: and an anger towards somebody? Basically, and I saw the 218 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: crime scene photos at the time he ripped her to 219 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: shreds in in this bathroom. 220 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 2: It's the night of Valentine's Day. It's late at night. 221 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: They're at their home. Their air conditioning is out. 222 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: Yep. 223 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 3: Now it's February where they you know, but it's hot. 224 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 3: There was a hot Yeah. 225 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: They're south, they're south of the equator, so it's their 226 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: summer essentially, all. 227 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: Right, So it's hot, and Pistoria says they went to 228 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: bed at ten o'clock. 229 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 3: This is his version. 230 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: By the way, two fans in the doorway to the 231 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: balcony because the air conditioning wasn't working. Pistorius usually sleeps 232 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: on the right hand side of the bed, but now 233 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: claims that due to a shoulder injury, he slept on 234 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: the left hand side of the bed that night. His 235 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: iPad prosthetic legs they're on the right hand side of 236 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: the bed. Steam Camp's bag and sandals on the left 237 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: hand side, the side he claims he was sleeping on. 238 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 2: He woke up during the early morning hours of February fourteenth, 239 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: twenty thirteen because the room was hot and humid. Steam 240 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: Camp was also awake and asked him, you can't sleep, Baba, 241 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: that was your nickname for him. Pistorius gets up without 242 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: his legs and moved the fans from the balcony doorway 243 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: to inside the room. He pulls the curtains tight to 244 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: block out a slim bit of light through the curtains, 245 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: and he moves Steamcamp's jeans from the floor and was 246 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: going to use them to cover a small led light 247 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: on an amplifier that was bothering him now before covering 248 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: the light, he claims to have heard a noise of 249 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: a window going up in the bathroom. He said he 250 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: believed the noise was from an intruder who was in 251 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: the house, possibly via a ladder to the window. Still 252 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: on his stumps, Pistorius retrieves his gun from beneath the 253 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: left side of the bed. He whispers to Steamcamp to 254 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 2: call the police, and then move into the hallway leading 255 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: to the bathroom, the gun pointed in front of him. 256 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: Moving down the hallway, he leans against the wall for 257 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: a better stability on his stumps. His eyes keep moving 258 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: between the bathroom door and a nearby window. He yells 259 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: at the person get out of the house and yells 260 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: to steam Camp call the police. Still feeling vulnerable on 261 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: his stumps, he fears someone is about to come out 262 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: of the bathroom when he hears the sound of wood 263 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: moving and thought the door was opening. He's overcome with fear. 264 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: He fires four shots in quick succession at the bathroom door. 265 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: That is his story, and he's sticking to it. 266 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: Joe, he claimed that he heard people banging around in 267 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: the house, or what he thought were people banging around 268 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: the house and we've got to back up a little bit, 269 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: because you know, only if you take a look at 270 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: the bed, and I think everybody can do, and this 271 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: is one of the things that we look at on 272 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: crime scenes. If we have someone that was alleged to 273 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: have been in bed, the most obvious thing that we're 274 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: going to do is look at the bed clothes to 275 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: see if they're disrupted in any way. And only one 276 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: side of the bed is actually disrupted. That gives you 277 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: evidence that someone may have been laying there. And one 278 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: other thing, her iPad was found on the floor adjacent 279 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: to the side of the bed which she commonly slept on. 280 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: He goes down the hallway, he retrieves the weapon. It's 281 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: a nine millimeter pistol, which is a semi automatic that 282 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: he keeps holstered beneath the bed. He's got a long 283 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: history with guns. As a matter of fact, a little 284 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: aside people might not remember about him is that he 285 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: had been in a restaurant months before with some of 286 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: his buddies a public place and he discharged a handgun 287 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: at their feet under the table. And how in the 288 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: world no one was hit at that particular time. I 289 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: have no iteas but for the grace of God. So 290 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: he's got this, this this history of weapons. It goes 291 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: to the range a lot. There's nothing wrong with that. 292 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 2: He fired a gun through a sun roof of a car, too, didn't. 293 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: He Yeah, he did, he did it. So he's got this. 294 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: It almost seems like there's this this anger thing that 295 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: goes on with him, but it comes off as well 296 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: as there's a level of brattiness to him too. And I, 297 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, and I think about the dynamic within, you know, 298 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: with them fighting that night, and she may have just 299 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: been simply trying to defend herself verbally and it just 300 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: set him off. It just set him off. And so 301 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: there's something that happened in that bedroom room that night. 302 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: And keep in mind, a lot of the stuff that 303 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: we hear that came out of this trial, a lot 304 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: of it was circumstantial. And people will say, well, how 305 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: is that she was shot this many times? Yeah, she 306 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: was shot through a door. But the problem was is 307 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: that they had a real hard time in this case 308 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: putting the gun in his hand. Now he's moving down 309 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: the hallway, she's retreated, and so folks understand, you've got 310 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: the bed area and there's a hallway that's essentially made 311 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: up of closets where you've got these wardrobes essentially that 312 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: are running down a hallway, and the hallway with the 313 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: wardrobes dumps into the outer area of the bathroom. So 314 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: you've got like the shower area, there's a sink, and 315 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: then you have a separate toilet room. Okay, she had 316 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: retreated into the toilet room. So whatever initiated in that bedroom, 317 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: she fled. She felt as though that she needed to 318 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: retreat to a point where she could put a barrier 319 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: between him and her. Well, when she gets inside of 320 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: that bathroom, he can't access her. At this point in time, 321 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: she's locked the door from the interior and he's outside 322 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: of the door. Now here's where it gets kind of murky. 323 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: There is evidence that he did in fact fire through 324 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: this door. Now you've got four rounds that have passed 325 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: through the door and have struck her. Now she's the 326 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: initial shot, which she sustained was essentially to her lower 327 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: torso is actually in her right hip. Another shot went wild, 328 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: and you've got another shot that actually strikes the wall, ricochets, 329 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: splits in two, and you've got it passing through her 330 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: hand and into her head. So you've got multiple gunsho 331 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: wounds that she has sustained. And here's you know, we've 332 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: talked about this before on body bags, which is kind 333 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: of fascinating idea. It's one thing to stand toe to 334 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: toe with someone where you have open space between you 335 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: and a target and you shoot at that individual. It's 336 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: merely passing through air. But now you're talking about wildly 337 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: firing through what's referred to as an intermediate target. Say Morgan, well, 338 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: what happens when you fire through an intermediate target? I'm 339 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: glad you asked that question because I'm going to tell you. 340 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: If you're firing through a door, and a lot of it, 341 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: I know that a lot of us. I've got a 342 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: couple in my house. You've got a couple of cheap 343 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: doors in your house. They're essentially hollow, is what they are. 344 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: But if you have something that is a bit more robust, 345 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: say that solid through and through, even if it's press board, 346 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: you're going to affect. It will affect not just the 347 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: flight of the round, but also the configure uration of 348 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: the round. So you're talking about a soft lead projectile 349 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 1: that passes through this intermediate target, and it if it 350 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: doesn't come apart, the round will then become misshapen at 351 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: this point in time, and so when it if it 352 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: comes apart, now you're not just dealing with a nine 353 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 1: milimeter round. You might be dealing with a chunk of 354 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: lead that's passing through and you've got one chunk that is, say, 355 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: five millimeters, and he got another chunk that's four millimeters. 356 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: Either way, it's a projectile. It's still flying through the 357 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: air and it's going to strike you. But here's the problem, 358 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: and here's where it kind of ran a foul for him. 359 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: He claims that he shot her after he had put 360 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: his legs on to go down this hall and inspect 361 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: to see where she was or maybe where the intruders were. 362 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: But as it turns out, the height made the difference 363 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: here because the entrance into the door was not consistent 364 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: with the height. Had he been wearing his process point 365 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: of view POV, as they say nowadays, it's all in 366 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: the POV, isn't it your perspective? And in the case 367 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: of Oscar Pistorius murdering and we can say that now 368 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: because he is convicted of murder Reevesteinkamp, it's all about 369 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: his perspective and where he was in relation to that 370 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: door and her on the other side of the door. 371 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: Either way, this turned into an absolute bloody mess. And 372 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: I don't just mean I don't just mean the event itself, 373 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: but also the scene and the aftermath of the scene. 374 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: Because man, there's that old saying that again I attribute 375 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: to my papa. He'd say, He'd look at me and 376 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: he'd say, boy, you could tear up an anvil. And 377 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: I think that that's to a certain degree, that's what 378 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: the cops did. In this particular case. 379 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 2: We've had Oscar Pistorius's version of events. His is the 380 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: only version of events of the story, because the only 381 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: other person who's a witness to this is Dad Reevestenkamp. 382 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 2: She can't tell us what happened. Your job using the forensics, 383 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: and only the forensics tell me the truth of what 384 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: really happened. Joseph Scott Morgan, what. 385 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: Really happened is that he shot this woman through the door. 386 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: And here's another thing that we have to fill in 387 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: the blanks with. There was screaming that had been heard 388 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: a woman screams that had been emanating from the home. 389 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: One of the neighbors had heard this and I might 390 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: have my times wrong, but it seems like it was 391 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: probably about one am when this happened. Now they claimed 392 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: that they went to bed. He claims that they went 393 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: to bed at about nine or ten that evening. They 394 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: never could quite nail that down. What's really fascinating about this, Dave, 395 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: is that, you know, we talk about on body bags 396 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: many times, we'll talk about post mortem interval. And here's 397 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: here's an area that I don't really dig into a lot, 398 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: but we will in this particular case. Because when they 399 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: did Reva's autopsy, her stomach contents indicated that she probably 400 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: ate at about one o'clock in the morning. Because we can, 401 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: we can measure, and it's not an exact science. Please 402 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: understand that, everybody within sound of my voice, all right, 403 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: because a lot of it's dependent upon your own physiology, 404 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: how much food you might still have in your stomach. 405 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: You know how your body handles certain types of food. 406 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: But they found vegetable matter, and she had done a 407 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: stir fry, and she also had they had done chicken 408 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: strips with that as well, And so it takes a 409 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: prescribed amount of time for the contents of your stomach 410 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: to dump into the leading the leading bit of your 411 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: small intestine, all right, and it's almost a measurable kind 412 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: of thing. What had happened was that when she died, 413 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: when she died, she still had vegetable matter and chicken 414 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: matter in her stomach. So you can think that maybe 415 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 1: maybe she had ingested food probably within two hours of 416 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: her death. 417 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: Got the exact time of phone calls, Joe, Oh, yeah, 418 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 2: three nineteen, that's when Pistorias calls the neighbor. Three twenty 419 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: he phones an ambulance service. At three twenty one, he 420 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: calls this security at his estate. So three twenty in 421 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: the morning is when she's already gone. 422 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: Here's one other thing. The neighbor, the ear witness, had 423 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: actually stated that they had heard a pause in the shooting, 424 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: which I found very fascinating, where he. 425 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 2: Said there were four quick shots bum bum bum bomb exactly. 426 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: And that's one of the areas where there's a lot 427 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: of questions. Was that boom boom boom? And then you wait, 428 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: she shot in the right hip. Okay, that's where this 429 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: first round, you know, strikes her. At least that's what 430 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist believes. And it's a nasty wound, Okay, 431 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: don't make no mistake about this. And I think that 432 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: anybody that's ever sustained a hip injury to like a 433 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: bony prominence in that area. Can you imagine being struck 434 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: with a nine millimeter bullet that passes through a door, 435 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: So the bullet's going to be deformed anyway when it 436 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: strikes your leg or your hip. Do you think that 437 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: that might elicit a high pitch scream? Look, if it 438 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: were me and I was shot there, I'd be screaming 439 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: like an eight year old girl. It would be that painful. 440 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: And I think that that might be what they had heard. 441 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: There was a pause in the timing here, though, and 442 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: it didn't marry up, you know, because he's saying this 443 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: over and over again. There's also this idea that he 444 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: says that he put his legs on, retrieved the cricket bat, 445 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: and began striking the door to get access. When these 446 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: they're forensic analysts looked at this door, there was evidence 447 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: that the strikes, just like the bullet holes were lower, 448 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: to say, for instance, than you know, a person that's 449 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: six two sixty three is wielding this thing, and I 450 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: had to look it up, and I remember looking up 451 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: back then look dude, I'm an old Southern boar from America. 452 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: I've never held a cricket bat in my life. I'm 453 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: not saying I wouldn't want to. It looks like it 454 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: looks interesting. But this thing weighs about three pounds and 455 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: it's wood, all right, and it's really oddly shaped. It's 456 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: almost got a rectangular shape with a small handle on 457 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: one end. You can do some damage with this thing. 458 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: And if you see the images, the door is actually 459 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: made up of panels. It looks as though are planks, 460 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: and he's knocked these planks out in order to get 461 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: in to access this area, so he has to reach 462 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: over her access He claims this key that's down on 463 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: the floor and then facilitates unlocking the door. There's evidence 464 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: that when she was when she was first contacted in 465 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: this room, that she is lying. She's falling back into 466 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: a magazine rack that was immediately adjacent to the toilet, 467 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: and her head is actually resting on the toilet seat 468 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: and she's bleeding profusely from her head. He picks her up. 469 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: He picks her up at this point time, Now, how 470 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: do you do this if you're on your stumps? Did 471 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: he retrieve his legs at this point time and come 472 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: back to do this. There's blood deposition all throughout the hallway, 473 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: in the bathroom and up and down the stairwell. Well 474 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: he takes because he's on the second floor. He removes 475 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: and cradles her body and takes her body downstairs at 476 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: this point in time, and you can see on the 477 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: crime scene images that there's this big bloody area with 478 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: a mass of towels and other debris that are laying 479 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: down there that I don't know if he attempted to 480 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: stop the bleeding with you know, with sheets or towels 481 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: or whether the case might be, but there's this big 482 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 1: bloody area that's there at the landing on the first floor. 483 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: But it gets it gets really interesting here, Dave, because 484 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, the police actually show up at the scene. 485 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember, can you can you revisit and tell 486 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: us again what his level of notoriety was worldwide? 487 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 3: Oh, buddy, it was huge. You know. 488 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: The biggest thing about it was that he already had 489 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 2: become a celebrity in the Para Olympics and you know, 490 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: winning there as as a track and field athlete, as 491 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 2: a runner a sprinter. He had these very unique looking 492 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: prosthetic legs, which is why he had to fight. He 493 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 2: had to go to court to be allowed to race 494 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: against non amputees, and they in court suggested that his 495 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: blades actually gave him an advantage over people that had 496 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: did not have prosthetic legs. But that brought about worldwide 497 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: fame because he won and was allowed to compete in 498 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 2: the Olympics, not the Paralympics, you know, but the actual Olympics. 499 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 2: And because it's such a rare thing for an amputee 500 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: to actually compete on this worldwide stage at the best 501 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 2: of the best, he became on you know, he's on 502 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 2: the wheaties box. 503 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 3: He is that guy. 504 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And for that time, and at this moment 505 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: in time, we're talking about six months after the Olympics, 506 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: five months after the Olympics, he is arguably one of 507 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 2: the most famous people in the world. At the moment 508 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: this happens, Joe. 509 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: This guy was the centerpiece of all things athletic there 510 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: so to that point, and I wanted you to re 511 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: emphasize that. Did you know that when the police showed up, 512 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: they had him stay in the kitchen away, they didn't 513 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: remove him from the scene, and you know it two. 514 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: I think it was two hours later. He asked them, Now, 515 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: let's think back, what had happened. What had happened? He 516 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: had shot through that door, right, he asked the police. Look, 517 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: the blood on my hands is making me nauseated, making 518 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: me nauseated. And I'm not saying he doesn't have a 519 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: week's stomach, because you know, during the course of his trials, 520 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, he vomited in the courtroom. I remember that vividly. 521 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: So maybe he's got a week's stomach. I don't know. 522 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: But the cops allowed this man to wash his hands. 523 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: He's a worldwide hero, I know exactly. And he is 524 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: their hero. I mean he is known. Trust me. The 525 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: police in this area know his address. They all know 526 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: that he lives there. Here's the thing. We looked for 527 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: three components in gunshot residue. We look for antimony, we 528 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: look for bury him, and we look for lead. And 529 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: once you put soap to your hands, there is a 530 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: high probability. First off, it's not a fool proof test 531 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: to begin with, the GSR test. Once you put soap 532 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: to your hands, all bets are off. At that point 533 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: in time. There's no guarantee. So you're running the risk 534 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: now of swabbing for gunshot residue that might not be there. 535 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: And also you're still allowing the suspect, and he is 536 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: a suspect. Not only is he a suspect, he's a 537 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: known perpetrator because we know that he fired through the door. 538 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: You're allowing him to remain in the scene. And in 539 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: a case like this, I can only judge it by 540 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: American standards. Guess what he'd be at least in the 541 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: back of a unit, or he would have already been 542 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: removed to headquarters where you'd begin the process of taking 543 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: a statement from him. No, no, no, no, no, he's still 544 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: on his compound within this house, which to me is 545 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: just absolutely mind blowing. 546 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 2: I was looking over that Joe Oscar Pistorius had his 547 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: prosthetics on when he carried her downstairs. Now, remember we 548 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: were talking about this a few minutes ago, about what 549 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 2: he was doing. He has the prosthetics on, he carries 550 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 2: her downstairs, the witness says, the friend or a security 551 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 2: whoever is now there. He's not alone with her. By 552 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: the time he takes her downstairs, there are people in 553 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: the house. He's got his fingers in her mouth to 554 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: keep her airway open and he's got a hand on 555 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 2: her hip to stop the bleeding. But when the police 556 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 2: and paramedics arrived, they immediately say she's dead. And that's 557 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: when you know that. He stays in the kitchen and 558 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 2: eventually they let him go and wash up and everything else. 559 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: I'm still shocked because two hours into this, Joe, you 560 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: were mentioning that two hours he says, do you mind 561 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: if I, you know, wash him stick to my stomach. 562 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 2: He says to the police, you guys, take whatever pictures 563 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 2: you want, Just hurry up. I want to get out 564 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: of these clothes. I need to get out of these 565 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: bloody clothes. Take whatever pictures you want, and get out. 566 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: Critical in any kind of investigation, first off, that your 567 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: suspect is not in charge of your investigation. That's one 568 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: of the things dealing with high profile individuals. I've never 569 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: dealt with like a celebrity at this level in any 570 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: homicide investigation, but I have dealt with people that perceived 571 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: themselves to be in positions of power, and it's at 572 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: that point in time where the investigators have to take 573 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: charge and you're not running you the universal you this 574 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: individual is not running the investigation. The police are running 575 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: this investigation, but as it turned out, he was eventually 576 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: tried and convicted of Reevesteinekamp's homicide. 577 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 3: Can you tell me why how she died? Joe? 578 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 2: I mean, we know she's got that he fired four 579 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: bullets in four rounds into the bathroom, one hip shot, 580 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 2: one split bullet with the part of it in her head. 581 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,479 Speaker 3: What damage was caused? How did she die? 582 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: Well, she eventually died, and because there were still according 583 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: to him, at least remember he's trying to keep her 584 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: airway open, there was still some kind of agonal respiration 585 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: with her at that point in time. What would have 586 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: eventually led to her death was going to be what 587 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 1: we referred to as exsanguination, which means she bled out. 588 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: And that's not unreasonable considering the volume of blood that 589 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: you see at the scene, because it was, as we say, copious, 590 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: to say the very least, it would have been a slow, 591 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: agonizing death. 592 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 2: But if the wounds could have been stopped from bleeding, 593 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 2: could she have survived. 594 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: It's hard, It's hard to say. I don't know that 595 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: the gunshot Wouman that she sustained to the head would 596 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: have been a survivable injury, and even if it had 597 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: been survivable, I don't think that anyone could have guaranteed 598 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: any kind of further high quality of life for her. 599 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: It was that devastating. It should be noted that Oscar 600 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: Pistorius is scheduled to be released Frum Custody January of 601 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 602 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: Bodybags