1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: From School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. This is Cold 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: Case Files Miami. I'm your host, Anddrique Santos this is 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Cold Case Files Miami. So part of our goal on 4 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: this show is to have open conversations with professionals about 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: what law enforcement or first responders deal with behind the scenes. 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Much of what we know or see of folks in 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: this profession. 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: For media TV, and we want to humanize their experience. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: As you know, I'm a reserve Miami police officer and 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: the time I worked as a full time cop left 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: me marked in more ways than one. I've seen the 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: mental toll it can take and have experienced it firsthand. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: There's a lot of stigma around asking for help, and 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to speak to my friend Michelle Ernandez. 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: Michelle Ernandez is a licensed mental. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: Health counselor and psychotherapist who specializes in trauma. Started her 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: own private practice after spending nearly a decade working with 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: Christy House, an organization here in Miami that. 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: Treats children with severe trauma. 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: Today, her clients are of all ages, but she focuses 21 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: on people suffering from PTSD, anxiety and grief. Michelle, welcome, 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: Let's start with defining PTSD, how do you define it? 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 3: So, post traumatic stress disorder is something that happens after 24 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 3: somebody experiences a traumatic event. Now this has evolved a 25 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: little bit, right. It used to be that we used 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 3: to think, well, it's this is from military that are 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: coming back from service. But the reality is that so 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 3: many people have experienced something that can be traumatic, from 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 3: a sexual abuse to a physical abuse, you know, victims 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: of crime. There's so many ways that someone can experience trauma. 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: I've seen levels of PTSD even after COVID for some 32 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: people it was that traumatic. So it's something that you know, 33 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: you experience something that's really traumatic, you can't stop thinking 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: about it. There's people that experience flashbacks, there's people that 35 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 3: are triggered, they're right back in that moment. They can 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 3: have trouble sleeping. It can impact their relationships, it can 37 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 3: impact their health. There's research that shows that prolonged exposure 38 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: two events that contribute to PTSD can actually shorten somebody's life. 39 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: And so I've dedicated my life to kind of working 40 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 3: with children in foster care, police fire, anybody that has 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 3: experienced PTSD. It's very important to me. I think that 42 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 3: quality of life is important, and I think it's important 43 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: for people to understand that even though you've seen really 44 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 3: terrible things or bad things, that there can be a 45 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: quality of life and that you can overcome some of 46 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: these things. 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: Talking about PTSD not only affecting life but shortening life. 48 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: Many people dealing with PTSD unfortunately end up committing so 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: side how much of that is a factor and how 50 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: worried are you with this factor? 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: So it's interesting for the general population, the risk of 52 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 3: suicide is about seven to twelve percent for people with PTSD. 53 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: When you look at police and fire, those numbers are 54 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: really high. In the state of Florida, there is the 55 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: number is about twenty percent of suicide risk. The numbers 56 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: are pretty high in Florida, and we're not the highest. 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 3: I believe Montana, Alaska, and Wyoming have the highest incidents 58 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 3: of suicide. I think that it falls on our agencies 59 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 3: or community leaders. I know that it's difficult when we 60 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 3: lose a first responsor, but I have to say that 61 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: the past few months, it's happened a few times and 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: the conversations have been refreshing. In my opinion, I think 63 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: that the leaders of these agencies we have to have 64 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: an open conversation. Why are we losing senior people? Why 65 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: do they feel, after dedicating their life to their community 66 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: that suicide is the answer? How much pain are they 67 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: in and what are we missing? How can we help them? 68 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: So I think it's also important to remember that it's 69 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: not just new recruits who might struggle with mental health 70 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: issues right well, people starting their job, in the middle 71 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: of their job, towards the end of their careers. 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: This also affects. 73 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: Veterans, like like like you're explaining, and this affects the family. 74 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: How can we identify and deal with a loved one 75 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: that's dealing with PTSD. 76 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: So I think open communication is always the important thing, right. 77 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: I think it's it's lovely, and I think a lot 78 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: of people think, oh, I married my hero. They're a 79 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: first responder. And I feel like first responders oftentimes don't 80 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: want to bring that burden home. My partner can't. I 81 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: don't want to share that what I say today with them. 82 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 3: I don't want to share that I saw a little 83 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 3: child drown or that I wasn't able to save somebody 84 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 3: from a gunshot wound, or that there was a terrible 85 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: car accident. They want to kind of keep that to 86 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: themselves and maybe share it with other first responders. So 87 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: I think as a spouse of a first responder, or 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: a partner, an intimate partner, or even just parents siblings, 89 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: asking your person, are you okay? You don't have to 90 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 3: give me the details of what you have experienced, but 91 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 3: how are you doing? How are you coping? How can 92 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: we support you? Right? I think also giving first responders 93 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: a breather when they walk through the door. You know, 94 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: oftentimes we want them to jump back in into family life. 95 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: And I don't know what this person saw while they 96 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 3: were on shift, so maybe they didn't need a minute 97 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: to regroup, right, and then kind of jump back into too, 98 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: whatever's happening in the household. 99 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the stigma a little bit. There are 100 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: there many studies, Yeah, and you've mentioned some numbers as 101 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: well as that this takes high rates of mental health 102 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: issues among police and first responder uh and much higher 103 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: than the general public. 104 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: Right. 105 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: Do you think law enforcement officers and first responders are 106 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: encouraged internally within their police departments, within their circles to 107 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: talk about these issues? 108 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 2: Is there enough support for them? Are we failing them? 109 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: I think I think we have to understand them. I 110 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 3: think I'll speak to providers. So let's start with providers. 111 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 3: So if you're a provider, and you and you're a 112 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: mental health provider, you treat PTSD, it's imperative that you 113 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: understand this subsection of our population. Right. You have to 114 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: understand how police talk. You have to understand how firefighters talk, 115 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: you their lingo, their language. It's also important to note 116 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: that first responders, police and fire experience PTSD differently. A 117 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 3: police a police officer can be very solitary. They're in 118 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: their car, they might have somebody that's in their in 119 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 3: their same district that they work with, right or somebody 120 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 3: that they body up with. But firefighters go back to 121 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 3: their fire station and they can kind of hash some 122 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 3: of this stuff out. And so we have to understand 123 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 3: that we're also everybody's first responders. But they're all so different. 124 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: Just like dispatchers. Dispatchers are getting these raw calls and 125 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 3: there's no filter. They're getting these raw calls. If somebody's 126 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 3: screaming and yelling and they're trying to help this person. 127 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: They're trying to relay that information to whoever's responding, and 128 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: they experience BTSC differently. And so I think it's important 129 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: to hold that space to support them. I can speak 130 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: to Miami, I think culturally right for Hispanics and maybe 131 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: for other minorities. The stigma of I'm not crazy. I 132 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: don't need to talk to anybody. You don't need to 133 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: be crazy. You've chosen a vocation that is admirable and 134 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: it's beautiful, but it comes with a cost, right your 135 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 3: own sense of being, your sense of mental health, becoming 136 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: a little bit jaded about the world. And so I 137 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: think it's important to have open spaces where people can 138 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 3: talk about these things. 139 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so talking about this with your buddies, with your 140 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 1: peers on the force can be helpful. But some fear 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: that if they take it to the next level and 142 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: speak to an expert like you, and if what's shared 143 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: is a little too dark, that might threaten their job, 144 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: their career, and their families. 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: There's definitely a fear of are they going to take 146 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: my gun? Are they going to take me off the 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: fire truck? Am I going to be put on dust duty? 148 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: If I share these concerns. In my opinion, I feel 149 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 3: like we need providers that are very specialized and also 150 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: that are not attached to the agency. So standalone, I 151 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: don't have to answer to the fire department, I don't 152 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: have to answer to the police department. I can hold 153 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: this space for my client while also having those serious 154 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 3: conversations of when do you need a break, should you 155 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: still be working? Do you need a time out, but 156 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 3: not having that fear of if I share too much, 157 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: is this immediately going to be reported to my boss? 158 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 3: And I think that that's helpful. 159 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: So what you're describing outside third party not your agency? 160 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: Are you describing union? 161 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: Uh? It could be the union. You know, every union 162 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: works differently. I know, I think locally the PBA does 163 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 3: a great job of connecting people with third parties. It's 164 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: not necessarily something that's going to go right back to 165 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: the police department. You know. I'm not talking about you 166 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: were involved in a shooting and now they're doing an 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 3: investigation the way that they do because you just start 168 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 3: your firearm. That's normal, right, that has to be done. 169 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: I'm talking about. This is not specific to one incident. 170 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 3: This is a culmination of I just got on the 171 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 3: forest and I don't know how to deal with this, 172 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: or I've been on the force for ten years and 173 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: I can't deal with it anymore. I need somebody where 174 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: I can where I can kind of talk about these things. 175 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: I do think we need third party people that are qualified, 176 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 3: that are not necessarily linked back to the agencies. I 177 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: spoke locally to do different people, one with the fire department, 178 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: one with a county police who told me that when 179 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: people are in the academy, they kind of brush over 180 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: the topic of PTSD. Now imagine you have recruits that 181 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 3: are put through these academies, right, which are intense physically, emotionally, 182 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: and so I wonder how much of them are filtering that. 183 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 3: I do think that there are. There's some grants in 184 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 3: motion at this time, and what they want to do 185 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: is follow This is specific to the fire department. They 186 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 3: want to follow people. You just got on board, all right, 187 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 3: So let's have a conversation in six months, in a 188 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: year and see how you're adjusting. I loved that idea. 189 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 3: I think it's fantastic of telling people this is not 190 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: you're going to see a therapist once. This is throughout 191 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 3: your career. Let's do some check ins, right, Let's do 192 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 3: a wellness check and see how you doing mentally. Have 193 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: you even asked yourself how am I doing mentally because 194 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 3: some of us don't do that, We don't even check 195 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: in with ourselves. 196 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: Let's talk about that a little bit. 197 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: Do you think that separation between work and home life 198 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: is important to maintain? And how do you how can 199 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: first responders that are listening right now, what would you 200 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: say to them that they're looking for that, for that 201 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: healthy balance. 202 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: So I believe that work life balance is extremely important 203 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: when we're looking at first responders. How do we help 204 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 3: them do that? When they drove by a particular corner 205 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 3: and they can remember an accident that was on that corner, 206 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 3: they can remember where they arrested someone. Some people don't 207 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: live where they police, but a lot of people do. 208 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 3: And you know if you do, if you choose to 209 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: live in the same city where you're policing, you do 210 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: have to kind of be be mindful of that. Are 211 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 3: these triggers? Oh I remember where I responded to a 212 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: call of a pool and a little kid drowned, that 213 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 3: it was right on the street, And so understanding that 214 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: these are to be triggers, and how to prepare for that? Meaning, 215 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: how do you talk about that? And how do you 216 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 3: understand that this number one, this is a vocation so 217 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 3: processing a lot of your guilt. The reality is you're 218 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 3: not going to save everybody. The reality is, in the 219 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 3: beginning of your career, you might make mistakes that I 220 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 3: don't want to say, cast somebody their life. But but 221 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 3: that can change the outcome of something, right. That's just 222 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: the process of learning and so letting go of that 223 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 3: guilt and of that of that feeling of why didn't 224 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 3: I say this person? Why didn't I? You know, let's 225 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 3: focus on other people you have helped, and I think 226 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 3: shifting that perspective a little bit of Wow, how much 227 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: good have I done in the world versus all the 228 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: bad things that I've been exposed to. It sounds simplistic, 229 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: but I think it can be helpful. 230 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: Do you see this as a two way street? 231 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: In other words, first responder are there to protect, serve, help, 232 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: But should the general public also understand, have some empathy, 233 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: have some sympathy for what our first responders and the 234 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: positions that they are being placed in and the decisions 235 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: that they have to make under so much pressure. What 236 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: would you say to the general public? How can they 237 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: better understand our first responders? 238 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 3: So I highly recommend for anyone to do a ride 239 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 3: along that's my personal opinion. I did one many years 240 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 3: ago and it was eye opening. 241 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 2: Explain the right along so those that don't know what 242 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: that is. 243 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 3: So a ride along is you know, you fill out 244 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 3: some paperwork and you go to your local police department. 245 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 3: You can choose whatever municipality you do it in. I 246 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: did it in Hialiyah. It was fascinating, great police department, 247 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 3: absolutely and it was it was you know, you have 248 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: to sign this paperwork, you sit down, you can't get 249 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 3: out of the car when the police officer gets out 250 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: of the car. You're just there to observe. You're not 251 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 3: there to interfere. But it was interesting. You know, when 252 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 3: they pull over a car, my adrenaline was going a 253 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 3: little bit like what are they walking up on? Yeah, 254 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: this person took us oop sign, But do they have 255 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 3: a weapon in the car? You know, is there somebody 256 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 3: that's been kidnapped in the car. I don't know, I 257 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 3: don't know. Is this person going to be friendly? Are 258 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 3: they going to be apologetic? Are they going to be aggressive? 259 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 3: And so these are all things that police are in 260 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: their minds. It's going going going there, adrenaline is up, 261 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: their nervous system is constantly going and so I think 262 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 3: it's important for the public to also understand, you know, 263 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 3: what our police go through. But I will say I 264 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 3: truly believe City of Miami does a beautiful job of 265 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: community policing. They engage their communities, They're out there the 266 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 3: resources talking to people. So I think a big part 267 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: of this is educating our communities and understanding. You know, 268 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 3: a lot of people live in a municipality and they 269 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 3: don't even realize they have two commissioners and two mayors, right, 270 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: and that they have a police department. Depending on what 271 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 3: it is, might be your city, if it's bigger, it 272 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: might get bounced to county. It kind of depends on 273 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: what the crime is. Right. Definitely understanding all these nuances 274 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 3: and all these things that police have to understand. The 275 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: same with fire departments. You know, oh, well they came 276 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 3: and they broke all the windows. Understanding that, you know, 277 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: the fire department their job is to protect life. They 278 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: want to protect your property as well, but if they 279 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: have to make a choice, it's going to be your life. 280 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 3: And so understanding some of the procedures of why they 281 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 3: do the things that they do. 282 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: You mentioned the Miami Police Department and the leadership by 283 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: police chief. Current police chief Many Morales, who leads with integrity, accountability, 284 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: and a strong focus on community. He's done a fantastic 285 00:15:53,480 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: job with community outreach, specifically with the religious community and 286 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: local Hispanic Latino Spanish speaking community, but with the black 287 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: community as well. There's very close ties there and he 288 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: has personally told me that since he came into the office, 289 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: it was important to understand that community and for the 290 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: community to understand the police department and their challenges and 291 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: have a direct line. And I think that's very important 292 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: for police departments to have that rapport with the people 293 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: that they that they serve. 294 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 3: I think, you know, our first response just can traumatize 295 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 3: as well if there's not good police work, if we 296 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 3: don't acknowledge the things that okay, we apologize that that's 297 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: the way that something was handled in the past. You know. 298 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: I have a friend who's who for many years was 299 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: on the swat team, you know, and he said, they 300 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: thought that person fit the description, and you know, eventually 301 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: they realized that that was not the case. There was 302 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: illegal activity coming out of that house, but it wasn't 303 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: this particular person. And he actually apologized to that person 304 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: and sat down and had a conversation and learned the 305 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: communities that they're policing. I think it's easy for the 306 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 3: community to say, oh, the police just comes in here 307 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: and tears everything up. And I think it's easy for 308 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 3: police to say, oh, this particular community is always a problem. 309 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 3: And I think we need to get away from generalizing that, 310 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 3: right because and every kind of profession and every kind 311 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: of department. Yeah, of course we're humans, right, So there 312 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 3: are always people that don't have good intentions. Are there 313 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: bad seeds only in one community, No, there's good people everywhere. 314 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 3: So I think opening those lines of communication is also 315 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 3: really important. We don't want our children to fear the police. 316 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: We want our kids to if if somebody touches you inappropriately, 317 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 3: if something's happening at school, you know, I teach kids 318 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 3: that that's a trusted adult. And so I think the 319 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 3: police also has to understand kind of that responsibility that 320 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 3: they have to uphold that uniform. 321 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: And with that said, going back to the two way 322 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: street and knowing your police department and the police department 323 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: knowing the community, it's also would you say the responsibility 324 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: of the community to hold their elected officials accountable their 325 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: police departments accountable, not just when there's bad times, but 326 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: they should have a healthy and ongoing conversation. They should 327 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: know who their leaders are. It's about accountability as well, 328 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: not just when there's crisis. 329 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: Right, there should be a thank you. 330 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: You know. 331 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 3: I say this often, and I don't see it in 332 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 3: a kind of a nonchalant way. I really mean it. 333 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: I sleep very well. I have a seven year old, 334 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: and I sleep very well at night knowing that if 335 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 3: something goes wrong, if we have a medical emergency, we 336 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 3: can call people and they're going to respond. And I think, 337 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 3: you know, someone might say, well, you've never had a 338 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 3: negative experience with the police. I mean I did pulled 339 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 3: over and kind of had an experience with somebody that 340 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: wasn't that pleasant, but you kind of take it with 341 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 3: a grain of salt. I don't know what that person 342 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 3: was dealing with that day, right. The other part of 343 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 3: that is taking responsibility for my actions. What did I 344 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 3: do that got myself pulled over? Right? So I think 345 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 3: we all have to take responsibility for what we're doing. 346 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that you're a terrible person. Anyone can 347 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 3: be distracted in a moment and go oh, I didn't 348 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: realize I was going a little bit over the speed limit, okay, 349 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 3: but just being cordial to each other. It is a 350 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: two way street. And understanding to be cordial and respectful 351 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 3: to each other. And again understanding what are the what 352 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 3: are the things that are impacting my community that I'm policing, 353 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: and what is my responsibility as as a person, as 354 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: a member of this community to understand what my police 355 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 3: is dealing with? Right? I think that's important. 356 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: On the other hand, there's people probably listening that think otherwise, 357 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 1: that think, I pay my taxes, this is not my problem. 358 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: The police department needs to investigate. I need answers. Why 359 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: haven't they solved this crime? What would you tell that person? 360 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 3: So I would tell them what are we talking about? 361 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: Are we talking about a home invasion? Are we talking 362 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 3: about a murder? Are we talking about somebody took your 363 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 3: garbage can from your front yard? Like I you know, 364 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: I'm not saying that these things are not important. When 365 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 3: it's your property and it's your stuff, it's important to you. 366 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 3: But also again that's part of being of community and 367 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 3: understanding you know, this really and the scale of life. 368 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 3: This really isn't a big deal. You know, why am 369 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 3: I calling the police department. You know, I think this 370 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: is a really big issue when you talk about people 371 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: who are calling the police department because somebody's suffering a 372 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 3: mental health crisis. Right, And so we've had instances where 373 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 3: police are called and that person ends up dead because 374 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 3: that person was being aggressive or they didn't know. And 375 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 3: then we have that are upset but I called for 376 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: them to help. It's a very it's a very complex issue. 377 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: It is what would you tell somebody that does have 378 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: somebody that's suffering from PTSD or has another mental health 379 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: issue that has now turned violent? 380 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 2: Should they call a police? 381 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: Ah, that's kind of a loaded question in Tickese. So 382 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 3: we should call police if you need a Baker act. 383 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 3: But I think that that the police can't be the 384 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 3: last resort. I feel like the police has become the 385 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 3: people that we call for everything. And the reality is 386 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 3: that some police officers are trained, but they're not all 387 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 3: trained in mental health or crisis. We're very lucky in 388 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 3: Miami Dade County. We do have now some specialized units 389 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 3: that go out when they know it's a mental health call. 390 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: But if you're in the parking lot somewhere and somebody's 391 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 3: being aggressive, you don't know that that person is having 392 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 3: a psychotic break because you're not a mental health provider, right, 393 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 3: so you I can kind of tell I'm like, oh, oh, 394 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 3: I think this is not what it looks like. This 395 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: might be somebody happy being a mental health crisis, but 396 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 3: somebody's going to call the police because they're scared. And 397 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: so I think understanding maybe for those family members, how 398 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 3: can we get better treatment? You know, how can we 399 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: get better treatment for these individuals? And understanding the role 400 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: of police. Police are not mental health providers. If you 401 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: call the police, you may have an outcome that you 402 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 3: don't want to have, right, So how do we kind 403 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 3: of get around that? And that's where the hard question is, 404 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 3: because if you need this person hospitalized, you may contact 405 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 3: the police. So I think maybe giving better information to 406 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: the dispatcher. Listen, I'm calling because we're concerned, right, but 407 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 3: this person does have mental health issues, and I think 408 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: maybe frontloading some of that information for the officer, maybe 409 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 3: that could be a better way to handle that situation. Versus, Oh, 410 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 3: my brother has a knife and we're trying to calm 411 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 3: him down and we can't see. That's a different call, 412 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 3: right Versus, Hey, I'm calling you because My brother struggles 413 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: with bipolar disorder. He's a little bit out of control 414 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 3: right now. I don't think he's gonna hurt us, but 415 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: I don't know who else to call. That's a different 416 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: call for that dispatcher and how those officers may approach 417 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: that call. So you know, again this all boils down 418 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 3: to education. How do how do we educate police and 419 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 3: how do we educate communities? And again, so what does 420 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 3: that come down to? Education about mental health which is 421 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: now in our faces whether we like it or not. 422 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: It used to be a thing that people hit away, 423 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 3: right They would send their family members who were sick 424 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 3: to a mental hospital, or they would send them away 425 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 3: to a special place. Well, we don't do that anymore. 426 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: We don't hide people that have mental health issues, right, 427 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 3: And so we all have to learn how to how 428 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 3: to kind of live together or work together for the 429 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 3: better men of everyone. 430 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: Would you say, then, then the more we talk about it, 431 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: the better the situation is, because it's not an easy answer, 432 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: to your point, and knowing that someone that's unstable mentally 433 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: can fly off the handle at any given moment, and police, 434 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: to your point as well, arrive on a scene and 435 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: they're dealing with some unknown person and they have to 436 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: escalate or de escalate that, and that that situation very 437 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: very quickly, and family members know better the history behind 438 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: what's going on with that person, if you know, IF's 439 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: bipolar disorder, if it's somebody that's medicated and it's off 440 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: their their medication. So does that responsibility fall more on 441 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: the family and is that something they should handle more 442 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: on their doctor level with their loved one. 443 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 3: I think they should handle it on their on their 444 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 3: treatment level, obviously with physicians and things like this, But 445 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 3: I think also, you know, I'm just kind of thinking 446 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 3: out loud and speaking with you, but what if you 447 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: go by the police station and say, hey, we live 448 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 3: at this particular address and we might call you sometimes 449 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,239 Speaker 3: because we have somebody that lives with us that has 450 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 3: some mental health issues. Again, that's a perfect world, right 451 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: because it's not like they're going to relay that to 452 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: everybody on shift. But maybe getting to know the officers 453 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: that you know patrol your area and again that that's 454 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: also part of that community policing. Hey, we let somebody 455 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 3: lives in that cornerhouse and they have good days and 456 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 3: bad days, and on bad days, this is how we 457 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: address that. Now, that might be a little more challenging 458 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 3: in a metropolitan area like ours, but it's not impossible 459 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 3: because when you're on shift, you're in your particular district, 460 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 3: your zone, and so you get to know your people. 461 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 3: You know who's the troublemakers, you know who's the helpers. 462 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 3: You get to know all these things. 463 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: To your point, and you had mentioned the Hialea Police 464 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: Department in South Florida, they the hialia A Police Department 465 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: has us implemented an autism Awareness decal program for homes 466 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: and vehicles to alert for responders about individuals with autism. 467 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: And this helps, to your point, officers respond appropriately based 468 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: on specialized training. They know that when they're arriving at 469 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: that house, the dispatcher is able to tell them if 470 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: that resident has registered with the police department, that there's 471 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: an autistic person, for example, living in that home, so 472 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: that the officers know that if someone's not responding to 473 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 1: their verbal commands or is acting in an odd way 474 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: or different way just not responding to them, they will 475 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: know why. So maybe this is a great way. They 476 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: might be nonverbal, and there's a lot of people on 477 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: the autism spectrum that are nonverbal. So to your point, 478 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: this could be helpful. And a lot of police departments, 479 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: like the Miami Police Department, have certain households that are 480 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: registered where there's people that have openly threatened police officers, 481 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: threatened to kill police officers. So responding officers, if they're 482 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: going to that address, the dispatcher is able to relay 483 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: that information for officer safety, to let them know, Hey, 484 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: there's an individual that lives at that residence that's named 485 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: like this and this is their date of birth, and 486 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: they've made open threats to kill police officers, so the 487 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: officers are better prepared to handle that situation. 488 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's lovely and I think understanding, right, 489 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 3: these are our needs in our households, and I want 490 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 3: to keep my person safe and I want to keep 491 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 3: the police safe. I don't want this to have a 492 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 3: terrible outcome, right, you know. And part of that is 493 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 3: just mental health, some diagnosis. The behaviors can be a 494 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 3: little bit unpredictable. People take their medicine, then they stop 495 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 3: taking their medicine when they feel better or they're having 496 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 3: a psychotic break and they just completely stop taking medicine. 497 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 3: They mix their medicine. If you have co occurring where 498 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 3: they have substance abuse issues as well. So, yeah, there's 499 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 3: a lot of things. You know, it's not like the 500 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 3: police gets a chart, right and you know what this 501 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 3: person is dealing with. You're kind of called in that moment. 502 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: Tensions are already high in this household, and now we're 503 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 3: adding police to this. And so I like that idea 504 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 3: of maybe a decal or of getting to know getting 505 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 3: to know your officers, you know the other side of 506 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: that and thin Gas, we can't shy away from the 507 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: issues that we're having now with I hear this a 508 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 3: lot with clients, and it's a topic of conversation that 509 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 3: we have to kind of approach, which is, you know 510 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: what if I call the police and I have immigration issues, now, 511 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: what's going to happen? So I think some of this 512 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 3: leads to a lot of the miscommunication with police. I 513 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 3: think it leads to more mental health issues of people 514 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 3: who are depressed, anxious, feeling desperate, you know. And I 515 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: think that a lot is being asked of our police 516 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 3: departments to enforce all kinds of things, which I understand, 517 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 3: but we can't make pretend that these things happen in 518 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 3: a vacuum, right, there's consequences to all of it. 519 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: So there have been a lot of studies that show 520 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: a much higher rate of intimate partner violence among police. 521 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: Can you talk about how that might connect to officer 522 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: mental health? 523 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely. So it's a high stress job. There's a lot 524 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 3: going on, and unfortunately, sometimes that can lead to coming 525 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 3: home and just having poor communication with an intimate partner. 526 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 3: It can lead to domestic violence, it can lead to 527 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: all kinds of different things. And so then the person 528 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: in that relationship, it's twofold, right because who am I 529 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: going to call the police on the police officer? That's 530 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 3: that can get tricky. It's so important again to have 531 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 3: open communication, to seek out therapy. But we know that 532 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: officers are exposed to complex trauma every day. That's why 533 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: the treatment has to be different because what they're you know, 534 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 3: what I can do with someone who's experienced one traumatic event, 535 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 3: We can process that one event. I can't process with 536 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 3: a police officer or firefighter every day because every day 537 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: they're exposed to trauma. And so just not finding a 538 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 3: way to not bring that home to your spouse. And 539 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 3: I don't want anyone to misunderstand me and think that 540 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: I'm victim blaming, but also I think for spouses to 541 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: fully understand what their partner is exposed to and knowing 542 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 3: to kind of read those signs of I think this 543 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: person had a bad day today. That's never an excuse 544 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 3: for domestic violence or for putting your hands on someone. 545 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 3: But I do think that you have to understand your partner, 546 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 3: understand their triggers, and they need to understand yours. You know, 547 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: when you come home and you don't speak to me 548 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 3: because you saw a lot of bad things today, I 549 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 3: take that as neglect or is that you're upset with me? 550 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: That erodes trust in the police. If we have now 551 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 3: police officers engaging in domestic violence, now we have other 552 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 3: issues and that's and that's not helpful either. 553 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: Michelle. 554 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: What are some of the available resources, both locally here 555 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: in Miami but also nationally. 556 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,239 Speaker 3: So people can call the National Center for PTSD. They 557 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: also have a great website that has tons of information. 558 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 3: They can call NAMI, which is the National Alliance on 559 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: Mental Illness. And then with your local department if you 560 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 3: choose to go through your department, you can go through 561 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 3: the employee Assistance program, you can go through your union. 562 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: There's you know, various unions, the local for the fire Department, 563 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 3: the PBA, the FLP, like there's there's several places where 564 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 3: you can go and ask for help. You can always 565 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 3: call the Suicide Crisis Hotline if you're at that point, 566 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 3: right and you can always receive help. There's always help, 567 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: And I think the most important thing for first responders 568 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 3: to understand is that there is a therapist suited for you. 569 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 3: And it's important to ask for help because you always 570 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: respond to the call for help, but it's okay to 571 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 3: also ask. 572 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: For help, and it's so important. 573 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: The National Suicide Hotline, if you need to talk, the 574 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: nine eight eight lifeline is there for you in both 575 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: English and in Spanish. You can text nine eight eight, 576 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: or you can simply pick up your phone and down 577 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: nine eight eight and thinkay. 578 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 3: There's also a great local organization if you want to 579 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 3: reach out to Bleeding Blue. They do a fantastic job 580 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 3: of linking officers with any kind of therapist peer support, 581 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 3: and they've done a really beautiful job of doing that locally. 582 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show, 583 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: Michelle here. Your work is really powerful and necessary. Thank you, 584 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: thank you. If you have information to share on any 585 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: cold case please caller send in a tip with your 586 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: local crime stoppers or law enforcement department in Miami. That 587 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: number is three zero five four to seven to one tips. 588 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: That's three zero five four seven one eight four seven seven. 589 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: You can also visit Crimestoppers three zero five dot com 590 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: and select give a tip Cold Case Files Miami. As 591 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: a production of Iheart'smichael Duda podcast Network and School of Humans, 592 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm your host Imbriqua Santos. 593 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: This show is. 594 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: Written and researched by Marissa Brown. Our lead producer is 595 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: Josh thing Eedeli Spees is our senior producer. Sound design 596 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: and mix by Josh Thain, fact checking by Savannah Hugley. 597 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: Our production manager is Daisy Church. 598 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: Executive producers include me Mbriquessantos, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and 599 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: Elsie Crowley from School of Humans. For more podcasts, listen 600 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 601 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.