WEBVTT - The Cast of May December on Making This Riveting Physiological Thriller 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.000 Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:17.119 Talk about a superstar lineup. Natalie Portman, Julianne Moore, Charles Melton, 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:21.800 Todd Haynes. They're the talent behind May December, the gripping 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.959 psychological thriller directed by Haines and written by first time 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.480 screenwriter Sammy Birch. It's getting a lot of attention and 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.159 it's been nominated for three Golden Globes. The movie is 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.760 partially based on the shocking story of Mary Kay Latourno. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.640 If you're not old enough to remember, she was the 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.879 school teacher from a suburb of Seattle who went to 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.559 prison in the nineties after beginning a relationship with one 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.840 of her students. At the time, she was thirty four 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.120 and he was twelve. May December imagines a similar couple, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.000 Gracie and Joe, played by Julianne Moore and Charles Melton, 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.640 and years after their relationship began, what would their life 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.480 be like now, how did their story unfold, and what 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.360 would happen if an actress Natalie Portman showed up to 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:17.160 research her role portraying Gracie in an upcoming movie. That's 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.760 how May December begins. It's a strange, twisty tale of love, 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:26.840 lust and a not exactly age appropriate relationship given the 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.520 Todd Haynes treatment. I interviewed the group following a screening 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.959 and it was a fascinating conversation. I hope you enjoyed listening. 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.000 To it, Natalie. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.000 I know that your production company originally found the script 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.320 for this film and brought it to Todd. Why did 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.960 you believe he would be the right person to tell 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:49.600 this story? 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.840 I kind of think Todd could tell any story beautifully. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.560 And such an admirer of his, I've wanted to work 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.480 with him my entire career, and I've tried to times 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:05.000 before unsuccessfully, and had sent him things in the past. 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.560 And when I read Sammy's script, I was so blown 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.120 away by how she was able to do so much 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:17.960 with such kind of sparse language, like it almost it 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.959 revealed itself every day when we were shooting it, their 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.400 new subtext would just kind of come out through the 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.919 silences and what was between all of the lines, which 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.200 is so rare. And Todd is such a master of 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:36.400 female complexity and also performance related to identity. I mean, 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.160 it was such a great luck that he took to 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.440 it and Todd when you first read Sammy script, and Sammy, 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.840 I'll get to you in a second because I can't 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:48.520 wait to find out your story. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:50.040 What did you think about it? 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:57.840 I thought it was brilliant and devious, and that it 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:03.200 put the reins into the It trusted the reader. You know, 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:07.360 it's so rare and and someone so young and so 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.800 you know, to have that confidence to really let the 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.440 reader navigate against themselves and the and the knowledges that 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.640 we bring in the you know, the fluency that we 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.280 bring to watching movies and all the expectations we have 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.720 for who to trust and who not to trust. And 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:29.519 so it very quickly became inspiring to me. And as 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.920 to how to turn it into a film, I will 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:36.560 just add the idea of being able to cast dorg 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:42.280 Unaley finally in something so complex and so witty, and 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.360 then to have the second role sitting right there. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.040 This is your fifth collaboration, isn't it. Yeah, we'll talk 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.080 about that in a moment. But Sammy, this is Sammy. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.680 This is your first come on woman, this is your 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.320 first screenplay. You've got to tell I mean, tell me 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:03.280 about yourself. I know that the story of Mary Kay 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.680 letourno was the seed of this? How did this whole 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.840 story come to you? Just tell us a little bit 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.960 about why it struck you and why you wanted to 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:14.560 kind of dig into this topic. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.839 Yeah, I mean, I think we're in such an interesting 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:23.000 time right now with you know, re looking at all 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.400 these nineties tabloid culture, you know, these stories and kind 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.200 of picking them up again and a lot of times 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.159 retelling them the same way, I guess, and I think, 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:32.360 or in. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:33.880 Some cases through a different lens. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.280 I absolutely right, absolutely sometimes looking at them through the 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.960 lens of now and how people were treated unfairly. But 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.400 I think the seed really was this idea of thinking 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.440 about that couple. I knew that they had kids, and 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.880 at a certain point I thought, oh, they're probably adults, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.680 these kids, And this image of an empty house kind 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.480 of came to me of just you know, being an 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.400 empty nester at thirty six years old or you know, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.559 mid thirty, which is really young enough to start over. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.080 And so that was kind of the jumping off point 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.680 of wanting to look at a couple like that with 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.520 twenty years different, so there's just more air and more 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.279 room and breath. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.160 Reworry when people were watching this film they would remember 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.240 that actual story, or that they would be able to 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.320 make a leap that this was, as Julianne told me 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:32.040 recently inspired by it. But it wasn't that story, you. 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.479 Know, as Sammy was sort of saying, I think I 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:40.080 took it and I sort of accepted and as the 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.200 sort of cultural raw material that we all share, right, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.640 but that it was something that could be interpreted as 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.760 a fiction anew And the brilliant structure of the script 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.320 is that it's set all these years later, so it's 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:59.520 really about the excavation into the past and breaking through 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.679 those barriers that have been erected to protect this family 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:07.400 from that event in the role of this curious actress 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.800 who we think we trust. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:12.240 And then things start. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:13.240 To get crazy. 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.400 We're going to talk about the characters in a moment, 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:17.920 but I did want to ask Julianne about your working 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.040 relationship with Todd, as I said, this is the fifth collaboration, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.239 so talk to us about why this works so well? 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.960 Oh man, I don't mean I'm so lucky. I don't know, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.920 I have no idea. I accept that. I mean I 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.120 think that that we have a shared sensibility, you know, 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.279 and from the very beginning when I auditioned for Safe. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.280 I remember I had a very clear idea of how 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.000 I thought it should be performed, and I was desperate 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.479 to get the job, really just desperate. But there was 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.800 only one way I could see doing it. And I 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.040 thought to myself, if he doesn't like it, then I'm 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.520 just not the person for the job. And he did, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:55.880 and that was what And I think we've had that 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.640 in all of our collaborations, where I feel like I'm 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.440 able to understand and he's also able to very very 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.080 clearly communicate what he wants, you know, to me through 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.440 his direction in his storytelling. You know, Todd gives you 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.760 tremendous scaffolding and context for absolutely everything you're doing, and 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:14.200 so it's like. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.000 He does all the work for you. So I feel 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.080 like I'm just the recipient. 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.040 Okay, you're shaking your head, Can you go and say no? 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:26.280 I mean, I had this extraordinary fortune of meeting a 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.000 creative counterpart so early on in my career. You know, 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.679 it was my second feature, and Juliet had a career 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.640 on television and then was moving into film. But I 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.880 didn't know your work. I saw shortcuts it was about 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.480 to come out and people were like talking about this actor, 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:48.480 Julianne Moore, and I didn't realize how challenging that character 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.680 was until you embodied it, Like how almost impossible it 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:58.640 was to play until she understood the other side of 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.040 the mirror, right, And that's been what I've been experiencing 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.240 you ever since. And I've said this, you know, I 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.360 talk a lot about julian Natalie and Charles and these actors, 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.640 but I learned something from Julie. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.800 Every time we return to. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.440 A project, there's things that happen in the room that 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.320 I can'tnot see until I watch it on film. So 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:30.040 there's this understanding of the medium that is just extrasensory deep. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.600 Up next, Julianna and Natalie give us a sneak peek 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.079 into their process. How did they go about portraying these 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:47.160 fascinating and unusual women. That's right after this. If you 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.640 want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.920 the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.160 pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:04.440 Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. And we're back 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:09.320 with the cast of May December. I have to ask 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:13.640 you Julianne about Gracie because she's such an enigma. I mean, 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.160 all of these characters are so damn weird to me. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.920 But tell me. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.280 I mean, I'm just gonna say it. How would you 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:23.560 describe Gracey? 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:25.760 Well, I mean, it's funny that you said that too, 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.360 because of course, you know, back to Sammy's script, it 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.040 was deceptively simple, you know, I mean it was really 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.319 really clean. And I read this and I'm like, oh, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.600 I got it, I got it. I got this, no problem. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.800 And then I started working on it and I called 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.160 Todd and I was like, oh, I don't think I 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.760 could do this. This is really hard. She's really complicated. 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.760 And I think that what Sammy has done so beautifully 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.120 in the script is that, you know, everyone is so 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.000 desperate to express their narrative, to tell their story, and 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:53.280 no one more so than Gracey. 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.640 And Gracie's narrative is so complicated. And there was. 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.200 Something in the script where I kept stumbling as I 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.319 was working on it. She was so well, Gracie was 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.679 very kind of commanding in her house, and I was like, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.480 I don't get it. She doesn't seem like a mother 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.760 to me. She doesn't seem like she's in control. And 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.000 then I started thinking it's because I was like, oh, oh, 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.560 it's like, she's not the she's not the mom, she's 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.720 not the queen. She's a princess. She's a princess who 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.720 was rescued by her prince, and her prince was thirteen 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.240 years old, and in order to make that work, she 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.679 has to elevate him to being an adult, and she 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.320 remains a child. She's forever that princess. So she's not 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.640 the mom. She's a little girl with apron on a 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.000 wooden spoon in her hand, you know, saying, and she's 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.720 going to keep that's her that's her story. She's sticking 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.240 to it. And the distance between that narrative and the 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.640 huge transgression that occurred is vast, and there's so much 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.240 tension in between, and that's where all that emotional volatility happens, 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.080 so that when she's alone, you know, she just falls apart. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.160 So I was like, oh, whoa, Sammy, whoa. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.040 And it's it. They're all trying to convince themselves they're happy. 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.719 And I'm curious about Natalie your role. You describe Elizabeth 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.400 as so slippery. What do you mean by that exactly? 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.320 And how would you describe her because she's so complicated too. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:15.840 Yes, well, I think she's slippery all as Gracie is 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.440 as well, because there's at different points, and that's part 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.920 of the brilliance of Sammy script. There's different points where 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:27.120 you're with each of them and then they lose you. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.400 You know, you're with them and you kind of believe 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.640 their version of the truth, like Julie was saying, and 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.040 then you. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.200 Realize that they've been manipulating you. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.400 And I was just struck so much by the levels 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.360 of artifice and performance and the embrace of that, and 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.320 Todd's brilliance of using all of these mirror scenes and 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.760 using the camera as the mirror so that even when 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:58.200 they're looking at themselves, it's performance. That it's like always 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.720 performance and you're just trying to ravel and find like, 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.640 someone tell me the truth, And of course then Charles 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:09.480 brilliantly is like true and honest, and you're so relieved 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.040 because no one else is telling you anything to get deal, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.839 and so it's just, yeah, a beautiful construction that Sammy 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:18.400 made for us. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.040 Even though that's a perfect segue to Charles, I have 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.120 to ask you and Julianne about the nature of your relationship. 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.520 When you all are that makeup scene speaking of mirrors, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.160 I expected you to start making out for some reason, 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:31.240 and like I. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:32.960 Kind of heard sexual at tension. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:34.640 What did Natalie saying? 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:35.520 I wanted to? 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.480 I mean, how would you describe the dynamic between these 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.679 two women. It's so it's such an interesting dance, isn't it. 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.200 Yeah, I think they're in a struggle for dominance. You know, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.760 it's like who's going to tell this story? And I 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.560 think the interesting thing for me as as Gracie is 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.880 that her need, her desperation to tell that story and 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.960 to have Elizabeth believe that story is so strong that 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.840 she's going to do about everything she can to make 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.200 her believe that, and including seducing her in a way. 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.959 You know, seduction is another form of power, right, But 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.320 what Natalie did so brilliantly as an actor and as 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.440 a character as a colleague is that she managed to 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.160 you know, it's like, you know, Gracie can experience as 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:23.040 Elizabeth mimicking her. She sees her copy her gestures and 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:24.280 movement and her dress, and. 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:25.560 She approves of it. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.200 It feels good because she's like she's seeing me, like 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.040 I want to be seen right, So. 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:31.240 I feel a character that way. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:32.920 But then when I watched the movie and I see 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.439 Natalie doing all this kind of crazy, like really commenting 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.440 on you know, managing to imitate me and then comment 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.680 on it when Gracie doesn't see, I was like, it 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:43.240 killed me. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.720 It's so good, It's absolutely beautiful. 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.760 So anyway, she was a tremendous partner, a great colleague, 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.199 and we had the best time together. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.240 It was so fun to watch you too at work 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.280 and just get lost in the roles, but also at 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:01.000 the same time admire your incredible artistry and portraying these 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:02.839 crazy ass women. 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.920 Thank you. I just had to say that Julie's like my. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.480 All time like favorite actress, and I just was so 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.000 dying to work with her and to get to do 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:18.480 this together and realize how kind she was, generous and 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.440 fun with all of it made it so possible to 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.600 do all this nasty stuff to each other because it 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.000 was like so safe when we were off camera, you know, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.600 was very clearly just playing together. 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.880 I understand it was shot in twenty three days. How 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:34.600 much rehearsing did you all do? 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.240 So we had twenty three days to film and how 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.120 many days to rehearse, zero days to rehearse. But leading 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.440 up to filming in Savannah, Georgia, Todd would put together 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.560 these dinners and we would just hang out with each 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.600 other and get to know each other on a human level. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.160 And there was just this complete trust in Todd and 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.520 the set that he built, in the atmosphere that he built, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.880 and we were all in this together. And I was 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.680 so lucky to be with Natalie and Julie and just 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.440 have the best scene partners, the masters of their craft, 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.400 being led by Todd. So it was very every minute, 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.960 every second mattered and counted when we were filming, and 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.240 there's just some everyone brought their best and was elevated by. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.840 When we come back up and coming star Charles Melton 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.320 on getting inside of Joe's head, and screenwriter Sammy Birch 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:40.400 on watching her script come to life and we're back 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:45.400 with the cast of May December. Well, you know you're 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.440 getting a lot of attention Charles for your role, and 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.160 I know that you just received the Gotham Award for 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:58.680 Best Supporting Actor last night, so congratulations. Joe really is 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:04.240 a fascinating, again complicated character. He's more honest perhaps Natalie, 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.840 but he's still sort of simmering and you can't quite 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.880 read what he's thinking, although towards the end I think 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.880 he's like, holy shit, what have I gotten myself into? 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.720 Right when he's watching the graduation. But tell us a 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.080 little bit about how you approached this role. Did you 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.800 read about Mary kay Laturno? I mean, how did you 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:24.680 think about it? 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:25.280 Yeah? 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.960 There was there's so much source material to look at, 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.920 but it really just started with Samy's script. I mean 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.080 there was just so much in between the text, and 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.720 I kind of saw this vast arena to explore with 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:42.440 Joe and the sensibility of him having so much responsibility 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.520 at thirteen, being a father. That mixed in with just 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:51.520 public perception and you know, being a loving husband, and 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.760 you know, I kind of looked at certain things in 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.760 my life personally that I could apply or find a 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.320 parallel to that wasn't so much the same experience, but 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.480 the filling was similar. You know, my dad was in 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.480 the army. I was an Army brat, and when I 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.719 was eleven years old, he sat me down the night 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.160 before he left to go to the Gulf War. I'm sorry, 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:11.879 Desert storm. He did go to the golf wur but 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.399 desert storm, and you know, it was like, you know, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.359 to step up and take care of my two younger sisters. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:18.400 You're the man of the house. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And like as a kid, you want 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.000 to step up to the plate, you know, when your 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.240 hero's telling you this, you want to do whatever you can. 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.040 And in a way I could find draw that parallel 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.359 with Joe for his kids and stepping up to the plate, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.920 and for Gracie too, So that was a little bit 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:36.040 of what I looked at. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.880 Yeah, I know, you put on thirty pounds for the role, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.119 and I know, Todd, when you first consider Charles, who 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.840 were like, there's no way. Why did you not think 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:46.960 he was right for the role? 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:53.520 Initially because he was so unimaginably handsome. I was like, 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:59.240 there are no real people like that in walking, you know, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:04.040 through Tybee Island, Georgia. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.280 Why did you put on thirty pounds? Did you feel 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.280 like you had to have a dad bought or something. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.119 I just wanted to enjoy life. No, But Todd and 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.119 I we had a few conversations of what Joe not 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.320 so much looked like, but what he would feel like, 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.520 and it was kind of just you know, the uh, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.280 the green lights to just really go in and have 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:31.160 five guys every night, pizza, ice cream, ranch, just. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:31.720 Out of a cup. 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:33.120 I was eating it all. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:34.200 It was great. 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.440 He was sort of sadly stunted, wasn't he sure? 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.439 Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's like a. 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:44.280 Larval state, this man speaking of monarch butterflies. Yeah. 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.280 And the thing about what Charles you know, did is 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.480 that I saw his picture, but then I saw his tapes, 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.959 his self tape with Laura rose On, my casting director, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.159 and we were like, wait a minute, this is we 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.359 saw some great actress for the role of Joe, But no, buddy, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:06.280 did this. Nobody approached it with such a minute sense 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:11.439 of present tense where it was somebody pre verbal. It 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.800 was somebody who hadn't yet learned how to see themselves 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.679 and see what was going on. And that's what this 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.600 film needed, because these were two women who were so 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:29.119 adept at telling stories to get them through their lives. 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.840 And also couldn't see themselves as a result. 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.080 But you know, but that was their practice, that was 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.560 their career, that was their profession. And then the third 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.560 act opens up a space for Joe to begin to 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.680 exist and take those tiny steps forward. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.200 Sammy, can you tell us a little bit about yourself. 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.720 I mean, how weird is it sitting on this stage 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.480 with all these people, and what has this experience been like? 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:58.040 Just tell us about you. That was a very that 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:03.120 was a very Barbara Walters question. Go ahead, Well, it's 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:04.919 been very surreal obvious. 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:09.880 I mean, obviously this is very surreal, and and even 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.479 more so because the very first conversation with with Jessica Albaum, 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.639 the first producer attached with her and Will Ferrell, it 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.560 was the day before the pandemic shut down. So then 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.879 everything that followed was very kind of like I was 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.680 in my apartment still, but then it was like, oh, 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.400 Todd Haynes is interested, We're going to zoom with him 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.879 and Natalie Portman. I was like, okay, you know, like 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.840 there's like a sort of unreality to it. But but 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:42.360 from the beginning too, it's. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:43.160 Just been. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.920 So amazing with these people who are you know, artists. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.199 I've have meant the world to me their work, and 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.120 then to find out they're also so kind and funny 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.440 and generous, and and to get to watch up close, 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:04.880 you know, the process of Todd. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:06.359 Making a movie. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.760 I mean, it's it's really it's quite amazing congratulations. It's 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.919 an incredible story and I'm so thrilled for you. But 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.840 sort of as a closing thought, you know, I think 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.719 when I watched this movie, I was left with so 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:25.640 many more questions than answers. You know, was Gracie sexually assaulted? 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:30.680 You know? Is Elizabeth just this horrific narcissist who wants 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.240 to wreak havoc wherever she goes and destroy people's lives? 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:35.159 You know? 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.960 Was She's a question? Yeah? Was Charles? You know? Was 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:41.280 was Joe? Sorry, Charles? 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.480 You know, just as I said, sort of tragically stunted? 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:46.960 Was he happy? Or did he? 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:52.439 Does he not even understand what happiness is? And I 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.639 guess the question is anybody can take this who wants to? 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.880 But was that the goal in a way to leave 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:03.040 things leave you questioning? Because I kept thinking about these 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:08.960 characters after I saw the film and really wondering about 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.440 them and what made them tick? And is that sort 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.399 of the goal todd of a film like this to 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:20.000 leave things so enigmatic and unclear in a way? 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.760 You know, this script in this project reminded me of 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.480 the way films that I saw when I was young 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.919 that triggered questions There were maybe a little beyond my 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.080 grasp when I was the age I saw them, but 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.399 that made you want to revisit them and made you 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:37.560 want to see them again and think about them and 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:38.920