1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greasee, I took a shower with

2
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: Photus Dulos. Really, I, personally, Nancy Grace did not take

3
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: a shower with Fotus Dulos. I don't want to get

4
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: near him with a ten foot pole. But you know,

5
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people actually think he's attractive, was attractive.

6
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 1: I never thought that. I think he looks like the devil.

7
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 1: I guess that's because I know, without a doubt he

8
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: murdered his wife, the mother of his five children. But

9
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,600
Speaker 1: let me get back to taking a shower with Potus Dulos. Now,

10
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 1: after Jennifer Dulo's the missing mom of five, let me

11
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 1: break that down, the dead murdered mom of five. After

12
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 1: she's murdered, Potus Dulo says, lover his mistress, and he

13
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: that's Michelle Traconis and he get together and they write

14
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:17,440
Speaker 1: an alibi script, in other words, detailing every move they made,

15
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: according to them, And you can take that with a

16
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 1: box assault every move they made the day Jennifer went

17
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 1: missing translation was murdered, every move they made, filling up

18
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 1: their whole daytimer. And Michelle Treconis, who was sleeping with

19
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 1: a man she knows to be married, with five children.

20
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,959
Speaker 1: Has to add in the raunchy detail I took a

21
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 1: shower with Photus. Really, do I need to know that?

22
00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 1: Do I have to imagine the two of them taking

23
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: a shower just minutes before Jennifer Dulos is brutally murdered.

24
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: A couple of hours before she comes home from the

25
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 1: drop off, leaving her children at school. A vast quantity

26
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 1: of her blood is found in the garage, and she's

27
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,520
Speaker 1: never seen again. In the last hours, as we go

28
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: to air Gurrors have just been shown photos of where

29
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 1: blood Jennifer's blood is in Photus Dulo's trunk of his Chevy. Okay,

30
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 1: but right now Michelle traconis the mistress is on trial.

31
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's he grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

32
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Crime Stories and

33
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 1: on Sirius xem one eleven. Wow. Okay, let's just start

34
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,679
Speaker 1: with Jennifer Dulo's the murdered mom of five. We've never

35
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: found your body. Was she dismembered? Was she burned? Where

36
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: her remains earned somewhere? Was she buried? Was she weighted

37
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,520
Speaker 1: down in water somewhere somebody of water like I believe

38
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: Stacy Peterson was where is Jennifer's body? Her five children

39
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 1: are being raised without their mother nobody. Well, they go

40
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 1: through life wondering, Hey, was my dad telling the truth?

41
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: Did my mom just leave run off with some boyfriend

42
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 1: she's living I don't know Spain or Italy right now?

43
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 1: Did my mom abandon me? That's what they're going to

44
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 1: be wondering the rest of their lives. But back to

45
00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 1: Michelle Treconis, the mistress showering with the killer. I want

46
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 1: to talk about Jennifer Doulos's bra and you'll see why.

47
00:03:51,760 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 2: Take a listen, so I don't know you hold up

48
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 2: the garbage of Albany and Green on May thirtieth, twenty nineteen.

49
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 3: It is now with respect to first of all, what

50
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 3: is it?

51
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 4: That's bra?

52
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,800
Speaker 3: The back of the BRA's class? Was it like that

53
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 3: in the condition when you found it?

54
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,599
Speaker 5: That's exactly how we found And with respect.

55
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,279
Speaker 3: To the front.

56
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 6: Of the bra?

57
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,160
Speaker 3: Is there a cock going down the middle of it?

58
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 5: There is?

59
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,240
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to point out what really jumps out

60
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 1: of me. First of all, this is a bra. This

61
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 1: is Jennifer Dulos's bra. It's soaked in blood. You can't

62
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: tell what color it ever? Really was it looks like

63
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 1: it's a deep burgundy brown now because it's completely soaked in,

64
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,359
Speaker 1: but like you dipped it in blood and pulled it

65
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:04,160
Speaker 1: back up. Interesting probative, which means it proves something. The

66
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 1: bra Jennifer's bra was still clasped in the back and

67
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:16,480
Speaker 1: it was cut in the front. Why why joining me

68
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,200
Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we

69
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,520
Speaker 1: know right now? But first I'm want to go to

70
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 1: Taylor Heart's joining us criminal justice investigative reporter for the

71
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 1: Hartford current co host of an award winning true crime

72
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 1: podcast looking for the Tote Family. That was an incredible

73
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 1: case that we covered and investigated here, Taylor and your

74
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,560
Speaker 1: podcast is amazing. Taylor has been covering this story from

75
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 1: the very beginning, and again, let me correct myself, It's

76
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 1: not a story. These are real people. Jennifer a real

77
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,160
Speaker 1: mother like many of us, whose whole life is devoted

78
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,679
Speaker 1: to their children. Now she's gone, nothing left of her

79
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 1: but a blood soaked bra and a garage full of blood.

80
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,160
Speaker 1: We tell our hearts. We were just hearing Sergeant Kevin

81
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 1: Dugan with the Connecticut State Police describing finding the bra.

82
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 1: Where was Jennifer Doulos's.

83
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 7: Bra found Jennifer's bra and a shirt that she was

84
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 7: allegedly wearing that day that she was attacked and investigators

85
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 7: alleged killed in her garage were found in a trash

86
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,600
Speaker 7: bin on Albany Avenue in Hartford, and investigators in this

87
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,719
Speaker 7: case and prosecutors now in the trial have really zeroed

88
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 7: in on that part of Hartford. After Jennifer went missing,

89
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 7: investigators were led to that street by tracking location data

90
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,120
Speaker 7: from photos Doulos's phone that showed that he was on

91
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,039
Speaker 7: Albany Avenue. They reviewed the many surveillance cameras that are

92
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,320
Speaker 7: in that area and saw footage of Photos's black Ford

93
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,360
Speaker 7: Raptor driving down Albany Avenue and making a couple stops,

94
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,919
Speaker 7: and in that video you see a man in a

95
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 7: white T shirt and a black baseball cap getting out

96
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,560
Speaker 7: and playing some things into different trash cans and dropping

97
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 7: something into a storm drain, and investigators went through that trash.

98
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 7: We saw that in the trial this week, and the

99
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 7: jury saw that evidence, not only photos of all that

100
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 7: trash laid out at State Police headquarters in Hartford, but

101
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 7: actually saw those pieces of evidence taken out of brown

102
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 7: evidence bags as prosecutors pulled that red evidence tape off

103
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,920
Speaker 7: and held up these blood soaked Burt broads gloves with

104
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 7: a blood like stain on them, zip ties that had

105
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 7: blood like stains on them and were cut. And that's

106
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 7: just some of the evidence that was found in those trashmen.

107
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 1: You are hearing Tailor Hearts joining us criminal justice investigative

108
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 1: reporter with the Hartford Current. I want to go to

109
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us at the courthouse right now,

110
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 1: Mark Sherman, managing partner, Mark Sherman law Mark, thank you

111
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: for being with us. A lot of people would suspect

112
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 1: that that's all for show when the prosecutor brings in

113
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: paper bags and there's a reason that their paper which

114
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 1: doctor Eric Easton is going to explain for us. But

115
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 1: the prosecutor brings on all of these bags of evidence

116
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 1: and it is dramatic, but it has to be that

117
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: way because those bags are unsealed, typically by the witness

118
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 1: who is law enforcement, or it could even be a

119
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,080
Speaker 1: transport officer, which is simply the officer that takes the

120
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 1: evidence from the scene. After it's appropriately bagged and secured,

121
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: they transport it to the crime lab, or they pick

122
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 1: it up at the crime lab and transport it back

123
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 1: to the courtroom. It cannot and should not be opened

124
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 1: until that moment to preserve the chain of custody. So

125
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,400
Speaker 1: the prosecutor will take the bag. This is the best

126
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,920
Speaker 1: way to do it. Instead of you opening it yourself,

127
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,559
Speaker 1: You take the bag and you give it to the witness,

128
00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: so the witness law enforcement can say, yes, this is

129
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 1: a bag. It's evidence number one, two, three, four. It

130
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,600
Speaker 1: was obtained from a crime scene on this date and

131
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,680
Speaker 1: it was logged into evidence by tailor Hearts and the

132
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: crime lab person that analyzed it was Mark Sherman. And

133
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: now I'm opening it for the first time. Why is

134
00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: chain of custody so important? Mark Sherman? Why is the

135
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 1: projecutor opening up paper bags in front of the jury.

136
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 8: It's to preserve the integrity of the evidence. But it's

137
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 8: not the first time that the Saints probably saw this evidence,

138
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 8: Nancy before the trial, in the year to two years

139
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 8: in this case, three years before the trial. We're given

140
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 8: the right to bring our own experts in open up

141
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 8: these bags with our own experts in the presence of

142
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 8: the police officers and the crime labs, and tested ourselves,

143
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,559
Speaker 8: especially when there's DNA involved, and sometimes if not enough

144
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,520
Speaker 8: DNA to test multiple time, So good prosecutors will give

145
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,199
Speaker 8: us the opportunity to say, hey, we may only be

146
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,559
Speaker 8: able to do one test. Do your people want to

147
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,319
Speaker 8: be involved? So we do get a right to all

148
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 8: this stuff. It's not the first time the defense has

149
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,199
Speaker 8: seen this, but they have to keep it in these

150
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 8: sealed bags. They have to keep this chain of custody

151
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 8: tight or else the defense will be able to attack

152
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 8: them for saying it could have been contaminated by other things,

153
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 8: that all.

154
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 7: That it happened.

155
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 8: Sometimes I doubt it happened in this case because it's

156
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 8: such a high profile case. That being really careful. But

157
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 8: that's your reason why, because it will open the door

158
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 8: for the defense to attack the accuracy of the evidence,

159
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 8: especially when you have DNA and blood involved.

160
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: Let's just say it, let's just get it out there.

161
00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:46,600
Speaker 1: Ij Simpson. Simpson's defense, headed by my former co anchor

162
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,440
Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane god Rest his soul, I attacked the blood

163
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 1: evidence on mini levels, including contamination, including intentional planting of evidence.

164
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,160
Speaker 1: So not just that a lot of people walked through

165
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: the crime scene and got their DNA on it, which

166
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 1: did not happen, but also that police planted the evidence,

167
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 1: and the jury actually bought it. You want to tell

168
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,280
Speaker 1: me that a group of fifteen to twenty investigators were

169
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 1: part of a big conspiracy and to this day have

170
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 1: not signed a multimillion dollar book deal. Yeah, that didn't happen.

171
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: But that said, that specter looms over every piece of

172
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,080
Speaker 1: physical evidence the state puts forth, so they've got to

173
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: be really careful. Taylor Heartz is describing for us the

174
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 1: state opening up these bags in the courtroom and the

175
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 1: air bags of bloody clothes, so bloody you can't even

176
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,440
Speaker 1: tell what color the bra used to be. But there's more.

177
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,160
Speaker 1: Sergeant Kevin Dugan on the stand.

178
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,640
Speaker 2: Listen, is that a photograph of the shirt that you

179
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:52,439
Speaker 2: took out of the.

180
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,439
Speaker 9: Garbage on May thirtieth, twenty nineteen.

181
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 3: It is is at the back.

182
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 5: Of the front. Leave us the back.

183
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,600
Speaker 3: If you wish to say, you can continue.

184
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 5: The front was cut up.

185
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 1: Interesting to doctor Eric Eson joining US Board Certified Forensic

186
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:20,840
Speaker 1: Pathologists consulted at Eric Underscore A Underscore Eson, Doctor Eason,

187
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Just so you know everybody,

188
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,440
Speaker 1: this guy didn't just fall off the tournament truck. He

189
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 1: has performed around ten thousand death investigations. He has performed

190
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 1: thousands of autopsies, Doctor Eson. When I think of someone's

191
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 1: clothes being cut off of them, that's kind of thing

192
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,600
Speaker 1: that I would encounter as a prosecutor when EMTs were

193
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 1: trying to save somebody's life and they literally rip the

194
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,680
Speaker 1: clothes off, or they slice them up the middle, and

195
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,520
Speaker 1: sometimes they don't even take them totally off the body.

196
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,400
Speaker 1: They want to get at your hat or the cut

197
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 1: or the GSW gunshot would for expediency, But in this case,

198
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: we've never found Jennifer Dulos's body. Right now, her husband's lover,

199
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,960
Speaker 1: the shelter coonas is on the stand because she's on

200
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,960
Speaker 1: video getting out of his vehicle as he's going to

201
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,559
Speaker 1: what thirty stops Taylor Heart's how many trash cans or

202
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 1: receptacles did he use disposing of all of Jennifer's bloody clothing,

203
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,199
Speaker 1: her braw rags, you name it. How many?

204
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,960
Speaker 7: So that's something that is still really yet to be

205
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,560
Speaker 7: nailed down in this trial. I think it's been a

206
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 7: very common misconception throughout the coverage of this case that

207
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,840
Speaker 7: Foot has made about thirty stops. That was originally something

208
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,360
Speaker 7: that was reported back in twenty nineteen when this case

209
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 7: was first being looked at. But it looks like it's

210
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 7: only a handful of stops. Where that thirty something number

211
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,360
Speaker 7: came from was that investigators released a lot of surveillance footage.

212
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 7: They released I think at the beginning, thirty or so

213
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,040
Speaker 7: photos and videos of those stops, but there were actually

214
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,760
Speaker 7: only a couple stops along Albany Avenue.

215
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 1: When you're saying a handful or a couple, what do

216
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,280
Speaker 1: you mean by that? One, two, five, ten, That.

217
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 7: Number is yet to be known. We're hoping that's something

218
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,320
Speaker 7: that is nailed down today at trial or that we

219
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 7: can ask the defense attorneys. But I think it's somewhere

220
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,479
Speaker 7: about three.

221
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 6: You know.

222
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold joining us from now psychiatrist in the

223
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at angela Arnold MD dot com, Doctor Angie.

224
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: Most women are happy if their husband will take the

225
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 1: trash out once a week to one place, the end

226
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,360
Speaker 1: of the driveway or the trash chute. But suddenly, when

227
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulos goes missing air quote air quote, he's an

228
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: eat nick and he goes to multiple trash cans and

229
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 1: lo and behold in those receptacles are her bloody clothes. Wow,

230
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,880
Speaker 1: how do Michelle Chaconas miss that?

231
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 6: You know, I can't see. I have a feeling his

232
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 6: mind might have gotten a little messed up while he

233
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 6: was having sex with this girl in the shower, don't you.

234
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 1: Why did you have to bring them up in the shower.

235
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 1: I've tried to get that out of my head. Now

236
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,680
Speaker 1: you've put it back in there. But I mean, the

237
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 1: man is stopping at multiple receptacles to throw away bloody items.

238
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 6: Doesn't that alone make him look so guilty?

239
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,520
Speaker 1: He is guilty? Right where would where else would he

240
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: get the bloody items? And she's right there with him? Guys,

241
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 1: I want to hear more of this witness on the stand.

242
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: As Sergeant Kevin Dugan, Connecticut State Police, listen.

243
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,720
Speaker 9: Can you please point to wear The shirt is cropped,

244
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 9: it's almost right down in the center of the Sure,

245
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 9: are there any buttons or zippers on the shirt?

246
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 1: So?

247
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 3: And what is the brand?

248
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 5: It's a then your Advice shirt?

249
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 3: And over here there's some marketing.

250
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 5: What is that there's a defect in the in the shirt.

251
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 3: About the whole Yeah? And did just go to the lab?

252
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 10: It did?

253
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 9: Now there are letters here at EVSTG.

254
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 5: Do you know what that stands were, Yes, it's a

255
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 5: Vinyard Vince slogan for every day should feel as good.

256
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 1: Doctor Ariy Aeson joining us, Doctor Esen, Why would her

257
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: bra and her shirt be ripped up the front? Obviously

258
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:29,320
Speaker 1: she didn't do that.

259
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 4: It sounds like whoever took her life was trying to

260
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 4: get rid of the evidence, and so after the death occurred,

261
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 4: they would have removed the shirt and the bra with

262
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 4: the scissors or a knife and then would have discarded

263
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 4: them eventually.

264
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 1: But why, I'm trying to figure that part out. Lisa

265
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 1: Daddio joining me. Former police lieutenant, New Haven Police Department,

266
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 1: Anny Lee, Lead Detective, senior lecturer, director of the Center

267
00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: for Advanced Policing, and graduate program coordinator at University New Haven. Lisa,

268
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Why did he slice

269
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,160
Speaker 1: her bra and her shirt up the front.

270
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 11: So you know, that is something I also struggle with.

271
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 11: It doesn't make sense to me. If you're just gonna

272
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,360
Speaker 11: dump her body somewhere, why not leave her clothed, slicing

273
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 11: it up the front obviously her shirt, her bra? Why

274
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,880
Speaker 11: and then you take it off of her and dispose

275
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,920
Speaker 11: of it. But yet you still have the biggest piece

276
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 11: of evidence to her body, So that part of it,

277
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 11: I just I can't wrap my head around. It doesn't

278
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,000
Speaker 11: make any sense to me. But then again, a lot

279
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 11: of this case makes absolutely no sense to me.

280
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 1: Well, maybe you know we've all seen cases where the

281
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,440
Speaker 1: dead victim is stripped. Sometimes their body has been cleaned

282
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 1: like Nicole levels. Sometimes we see victims hands cut off,

283
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 1: so no fingerprint identification right, their head cut also, no

284
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,920
Speaker 1: visual identification, clothing removed. I'm just trying to figure out

285
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 1: why her broad and short would have been cut off

286
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 1: her body right rightense Also with us Jeff Gentry joining

287
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,359
Speaker 1: US forensic certified Bloodstained pattern Analyst and author of a

288
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 1: visual guide to Bloodstained pattern Analysis blood Stained Pattern Analysis

289
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,679
Speaker 1: for Death and crime. Seeing the investigators, Wow, Jeff Gentry,

290
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What do you make

291
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 1: of her clothes being cut off of her dead body?

292
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 12: He see every aspect of this crime was planned out,

293
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 12: from their detailed notes to the entire course of events

294
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 12: the rest of the day. So taking the time to

295
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 12: zip tie somebody to assault them, she was obviously unconscious

296
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 12: or looking up at him when he's cutting these bloody

297
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 12: clothes off of her. But he is planning to conceal evidence,

298
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,159
Speaker 12: and he thought he was concealing evidence by throwing in

299
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 12: the trash, but he actually created more evidence to be analyzed.

300
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 12: But his plan was to dispose of the body somehow

301
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 12: and hoping that this additional evidence on the body would

302
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,400
Speaker 12: not be found and be able to link it.

303
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 7: Back to her.

304
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 12: So I agree with you that she's probably weighted down somewhere.

305
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 12: A lot of the cases that I've seen where the

306
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 12: person is stripped down and additional evidence removed or parts

307
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 12: of the body cut off, they're usually weighted down and

308
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 12: then put in a waterway with the hopes that that

309
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 12: body will decompose. But hopefully one of these days they

310
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 12: will find her, and water does, to an extent preserve

311
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 12: the body, so hopefully they can find more clues to

312
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 12: give more explanation to the family.

313
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 1: You mentioned zip ties. Take listen to Sergent Kevin Dogan

314
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 1: picture nineteen.

315
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 5: So what is that so picture of zip ties?

316
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 3: Did you find those out of the garbage on all

317
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 3: the avenue that day?

318
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 5: I didn't?

319
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 3: And you did you package them and bring them back

320
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 3: to troop each?

321
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 5: I did?

322
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 9: And with respect to these items, did you then subsequently separate.

323
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 3: Them from the other items, Yes, similar to you did

324
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 3: every item that was continued in that garbage can and

325
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 3: did you photograph it?

326
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: Yes?

327
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,679
Speaker 3: And did you then use it as an evidentiary number?

328
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: Yes?

329
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 3: What evidentary number? Did you seize it as?

330
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: Five H two H?

331
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 3: And why did you see it?

332
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 7: So?

333
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 5: On the zip ties, there's a bloodlike substance on several

334
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 5: areas of the zip ties and I found that.

335
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 13: Relevant time stories with Nancy Grace.

336
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: Let me understand Taylor hearts. In addition to the bloody

337
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: clothes being thrown away by photos of Delis, you see

338
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 1: him on camera doing it cameras from all around town.

339
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: There are zip ties with blood on the zip ties.

340
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 7: Yes, there were I believe four zip ties, two that

341
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 7: had blood stains on them and two that had been

342
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 7: cut at some point similar to how the clothes were cut.

343
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 7: And then the other thing that we saw in the

344
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 7: trial to Seek that was pulled from those trash bins

345
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 7: was two pontos that you would wear when it's raining

346
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 7: outside that also were covered in a blood like stain.

347
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 7: And going back to your question about why those clothes

348
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 7: may have been cut, it seems like Dulas was really

349
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 7: trying to get rid of any blood evidence. We know

350
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 7: that his employees Toyota Tacoma. Then he was driving the

351
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 7: morning of May twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, was brought to

352
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 7: a car wash and detailed after Jennifer was reported missing.

353
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 7: The blood in the garage had sneer and white stains,

354
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 7: and according to the nanny who testified, at least ten

355
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 7: rolls of paper towels were missing from the pantry of

356
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 7: that house where the attack allegedly happened, and pieces of

357
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 7: bloody paper towel were found on the garage floor. So

358
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 7: we're seeing a lot of evidence that contained what is

359
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 7: believed to be Jennifer's blood that was then tried to

360
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 7: that foot has tried to cover up or get rid of.

361
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: Is it true that Vivio allegedly shows Traconas discarding a

362
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: package containing old license plates in a storm drain.

363
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 7: So there is a surveillance video that shows what appears

364
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 7: to be photos Dulos dropping something into a storm drain.

365
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 7: Now while he's on Albany Avenue putting something into the

366
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 7: storm drain and stuff into the trash bins. Michelle Tracronas

367
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 7: was seen in the passenger seat of that Ford Raptor

368
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 7: and She's told investigators that she was in the truck

369
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 7: at that time, but that she didn't have any idea

370
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 7: what was going on. There is one point in the

371
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 7: video where you see Traconas leaning out of the vehicle

372
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 7: and kind of almost touching the sidewalk, and her defense

373
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 7: attorney told me last week and has has sudden court

374
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 7: that she was trying to wipe a piece of gum,

375
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 7: chewing gum off onto the sidewalk that she was trying

376
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 7: to get rid of. But those license plates were found

377
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 7: in the storm drain. City investigators went to that drain

378
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 7: had everything suctioned up out of there, and they found

379
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 7: a FedEx envelope that had two Connecticut plates in it,

380
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 7: and at first glance, they seemed like normal license plates

381
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 7: that haven't been tampered with, but an investigator noticed that

382
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 7: in Connecticut it's typically a series of three numbers and

383
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 7: then three letters on a plate, and on these particular

384
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 7: plates that the numbers and letters didn't match that pattern.

385
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 7: So on closer look they realized that there have been

386
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 7: some type of adhesive or tape applied that actually changed

387
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 7: some of the numbers and letters. On the original plate,

388
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 7: a D was changed into a B. And jay was

389
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 7: changed into another letter, And when investigators pulled that tape

390
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 7: off and ran that original plate number, it was linked

391
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 7: to a registration that had been canceled but had once

392
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 7: belonged to Photos Doulos.

393
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: So, in a Nutshelle Taylor, they threw away altered license

394
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: plate tags.

395
00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 7: Correct, that's correct?

396
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: Okay. Question, you're telling me that only a handful of

397
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: trash cans were used? Does that is your number? Including

398
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: the storm drain?

399
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 7: I believe there were three trash beans and the storm drain.

400
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Mark Sherman. What's a jury supposed to believe

401
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: who goes and throws things down a storm drain.

402
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 8: Nancy, Jury's gonna believe that Photos Dulos committed this crime.

403
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 8: It's been nine days of evidence and I haven't seen

404
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 8: one shred of evidence to suggest that Michelle was involved

405
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 8: in this murder.

406
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: She's in the car watching him throw away the bloody clothes.

407
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: She writes the alibi scripts detailing not only her shower

408
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: with Dulos, excuse me, shower with Photos as she wrote it,

409
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: but everything else, everything else that day, which of course

410
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: is a lie.

411
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 8: Nancy. That's still not murder. That might be a hindering hindering,

412
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 8: which is assisting someone.

413
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 4: Who committed a murder.

414
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 8: But at most that would be and that's a ten

415
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 8: year crime.

416
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, why wouldn't it be a code of because.

417
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 8: It's not a conspiracy when you help someone after the fact, it's.

418
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: Not she's with him. I'm looking at the bloody bra

419
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: right now. She was with him, discarding all of that.

420
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: And then she, according to the state, made up this

421
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: script about everything they had done the day of the

422
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: murder and following the murder. But we know that's not true.

423
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: She doesn't have in that script. We went from trash

424
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: can trash can to storm drawings throwing away bloody clothes.

425
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: She left that out, which means the timeline is a lie.

426
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 8: Fair enough, but I believe the lawyer wrote that script,

427
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 8: not Michelle.

428
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: Okay, let's find out, Taylor Harts. Did the lawyer write that.

429
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: Did the lawyer write I took a shower with photos.

430
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 7: What we've heard so far in videos that have been

431
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 7: shown of Michelle's interviews with investigators, is that she and

432
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 7: photos wrote those lefts.

433
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: Okay, good try Sherman, can't blame me for trying. Let's

434
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: listen to more of what the jury is hearing in

435
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: the courtroom.

436
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 14: And what is the same.

437
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 5: It's the zip ties contained with packaging.

438
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 9: And are these the zip ties that you seized out

439
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 9: of the garbage that day on Albany.

440
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: Avenue on May thirtieth, nineteen, they are?

441
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 9: Are they the zip ties that you saw the blood

442
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 9: like substance contained on them? And are they the zip

443
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 9: ties that you that you see used for five or

444
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 9: two each?

445
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 3: Yes?

446
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: Okay. Jeff Gentry joining me, a forensic certified blood stained

447
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: pattern analyst. Jeff helped me out here. I'm trying to

448
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: reconstruct in a sensical manner why her bra was ripped cut,

449
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: why her shirt was sliced up in the front like

450
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 1: the bra, and why the zip ties were sliced, and

451
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: why they're all everything is covered in blood, including additional

452
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: things like rags. So what's your best scenario based on

453
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: the evidence that you know?

454
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 12: Blood pattern is excellent for creating timeline of events and

455
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 12: bloody cases, especially assaults. So you've got blood spatter in

456
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 12: the house that is obviously going to be when she's attacked.

457
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 12: You've got the zip ties, evidence that she has been

458
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 12: subdued in some way, most likely after the attack. You've

459
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 12: got evidence that her clothing was removed, and then she

460
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 12: was transferred to the trunk of a vehicle or the

461
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 12: back of a vehicle, so that it creates additional timeline,

462
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 12: and then you have evidence of cleanup the final stage

463
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 12: in that messy scene. So all of that really recreates

464
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 12: a timeline of events that hopefully the jury will see

465
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 12: right through. All of this not related to the blood.

466
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 12: But what drives me crazy is that she's using this

467
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 12: defense of ignorance. And what I wanted to tell you

468
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 12: is do you remember another criminal that used that same

469
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 12: defense of ignorance? And that was John Wayne Gacy when

470
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 12: he said that there were no children that he had

471
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 12: killed in the basement of his house.

472
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: And what about this? Sydney noticed this. We're there to

473
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: ponchos tailor hearts. Two ponchos.

474
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 7: Yes there were, and that was, at least of my knowledge,

475
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 7: the first time that we'd heard about those ponchos. But

476
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 7: there were in fact too.

477
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: Did they have blood on them as well?

478
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 7: Yes they did.

479
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: Okay, it's the picture getting any clearer. Has anybody seen

480
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: dexter am? I the only one that got me through

481
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: my pregnancy? Okay, I guess not one of my favorite

482
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: is that gentry Or Sherman?

483
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, I love Dexter.

484
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: Okay, ponchos, Sidney, thank you, time stories with Nancy Grace, ponchos,

485
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: cleaning supplies, rags, paper towels. You're right, this was very

486
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: well planned, right down to buying ponchos to protect their

487
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,719
Speaker 1: clothes from getting blood on them. The ponchos bloody and

488
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: thrown away with everything else, Doctor Angela Arnold, to think

489
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: that far ahead that you actually buy ponchos so you

490
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: don't get the mother of your five children's blood on

491
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: you. You're worried about that?

492
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 6: Wow, Well he didn't want to.

493
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: I mean he didn't, uh, doctor angel Arnold, I expect

494
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: a little bit more from you than wow.

495
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 6: Well confident, as often say NITTI, I'm sure that's how

496
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 6: everyone else is feeling right now. Also right, I mean

497
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 6: everything this guy did made him look guilty.

498
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: Her there's two ponchos two one two. Yeah, you still

499
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: want to argue Mark Sherman that she had nothing to

500
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: do with it. Who were the other pancho covered in blood?

501
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 8: Nanci? What the more the government makes photus to be

502
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 8: a monster, the more the defense is gonna flip it

503
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 8: and say, yes, Michelle was along for this ride.

504
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: She didn't know what was.

505
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: Going on, along for the ride. That's certainly putting perfume

506
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: on a pig.

507
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 8: Along for the ride, Nancy, She's on the phone the

508
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 8: whole time, and they have they have the data to

509
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 8: show that she was talking to her mother the whole

510
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 8: time or a big chunk of that do.

511
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: They tail her heart? Is he? Is that true? Or

512
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: is he making something else up as he has already

513
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: done once, n I was mistaken that it was a mistake. Okay,

514
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: is he mistaken again?

515
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 15: No?

516
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: It is.

517
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 7: It is true that there is there are phone records

518
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 7: that backup that Michelle was messaging her mom and her

519
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 7: daughter during that trip to Albany Avenue. But the jury

520
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 7: will not hear about that, and that is something that

521
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 7: is going to make a difference in this team.

522
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: Messaging messaging, did you say messaging?

523
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 6: Yes?

524
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 7: I believe she was using WhatsApp to text with her

525
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 7: mom and her daughter.

526
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I was. I'm sitting here, I just

527
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: read a message from my daughter Lucy. It took me

528
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: about two seconds, is it?

529
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 3: Hey?

530
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: Mom? So Mark Sherman, high profile defense lawyer, of course,

531
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: says she talked NonStop for what hours they were driving

532
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: around disposing of bloody items. But you're telling me, Tillahart

533
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: that she messaged on WhatsApp? Is that right?

534
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 8: Yes?

535
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 7: But the trip did not take hours.

536
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 8: I will point that out.

537
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 7: So they were going from their home in Farmington, Connecticut,

538
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 7: head into a Starbucks in West Hartford. And you know

539
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 7: that's what her defense attorney has said that Michelle just

540
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 7: thought that she was along for the ride while they

541
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 7: were going to Starbucks. They did end up at a Starbucks,

542
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 7: and yesterday we saw in those alibi scripts that they

543
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 7: allegedly got some prappaccinos there around seven pm.

544
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't care about their frappies. I knew you were

545
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: going to do that tailor hearts. I knew you were

546
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: going to tell she had an oat milk, skinny, light

547
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: eyes frappie and he had the chite Nancy.

548
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 8: Do you believe she was texting her her mother and

549
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 8: daughter and at the same time with the other hand

550
00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 8: burning out.

551
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I do a.

552
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 15: Little bit of a yes, I do, I do.

553
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: Does anybody Okay, Lisa Daddio help me out tell her hearts.

554
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: You do know this is kind of a dogfight it's

555
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: not high ta at winsor Castle, So just jump in

556
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: whenever you want, Lisa, Dadio, Brian Laundry, help me out, Sidney,

557
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: use that noodle, Brian Laundry. He murders Gabby Patito, leaves

558
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: her body out to be torn apart by animals and

559
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: dispersed camping. Then he drives across the country back home

560
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: to Mommy in her van, using her credit cards to

561
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: take up and eat. The whole way home. Nobody knows

562
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: she's dead but him, and the whole time he's texting calling, yeah,

563
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: I believe it. Do you remember that, daddyo? It happens

564
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: all the time, it always is.

565
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 8: It's a way to throw people off.

566
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: Let's reaf it.

567
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 11: This whole thing was planned, as we've said multiple times,

568
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 11: and done very well. But he got caught. And Michelle

569
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 11: is far from innocent in this case.

570
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 8: And so while we yet don't have.

571
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 11: Any information that says, hey, we know her DNA is

572
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 11: on you know, Jennifer's body or clothing or whatever, everything

573
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 11: else lead you to believe that she knew more than

574
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 11: just going along for a ride to grab frappuccinos at Starbucks.

575
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: Come on, yeah, thank you for that. Infot tailor heart.

576
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: You're really nailing down the facts for me. Sure she

577
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 1: got a frappy and he got a chi. Hey, Taylor,

578
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 1: I want you to jump in if any of us

579
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: have any fact wrong, because facts matter. And when you

580
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: mentioned blood on the zip ties, I'm curious, Doctor Ary

581
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: Aeson or Jeff Gentry. You're the blood spatter expert, Doctor

582
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: Airy Aeson. You've done thousands of autopsies. Is there a

583
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: way to look at the blood on the zip ties

584
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: and tell if Jennifer Doulos had been zip tied? Or

585
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: was this a smear or was this just spatter that

586
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: the zip ties were on the garage floor when she

587
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: was murdered? Can we is there a way that we

588
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: could tell she was actually zip tied? You know, let

589
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: me first throw that to Jeff Gentry? What about it?

590
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: Is there a way to examine the blood on the

591
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: zip ties to determine was Jennifer Doulas actually zip tied?

592
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 12: What I would do, Nancy, is I would look for

593
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 12: evidence of blood spatter. So a lot of times in

594
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 12: assaults there will be small blood spatter stains that you

595
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 12: can identify. But in this case, all that I saw

596
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 12: was blood transfers and that that's very common when people

597
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 12: are have significant bleeding wounds, so they transfer blood to surfaces,

598
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 12: or blood just soaks into the brawlers shirt and then

599
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 12: eventually onto the zip ties, and then when you put

600
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 12: it all into a trash bag, it really does mess

601
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 12: up a lot of the blood evidence that you can

602
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 12: interpret as impact spatter versus transfers. But I would look

603
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 12: for impact spatter absolutely on those zip ties.

604
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: Thirty bad bags of items drenched in blood. Some of

605
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: those items drenched in blood. What more do we know?

606
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Nicole Parton from crime online dot com.

607
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 10: Sergeant Kevin Duggan of the Connecticut State Police testified about

608
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 10: items recovered from trash bins in Hartford, where two people

609
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 10: who look like Photus Doulos and Michelle Treconis are seen

610
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 10: placing trash bags in random trash bins. After showing the

611
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 10: court what appeared to be a bloody bra, a long

612
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 10: sleeved shirt is shown to the courtroom. It too looks

613
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 10: like it has blood stains on it. The shirt is

614
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 10: also cut in much the same way the blood stained

615
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 10: bra appeared to be cut right down the middle of

616
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 10: the front.

617
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 15: Dung In testifies that the uncovered zip ties, plastic pontros,

618
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 15: a white T shirt, a BAP towel, black gloves, a screwdriver,

619
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 15: and a box cutter, and all appeared to have blood

620
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 15: leg stains. Dungan also points out that a blood lake

621
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 15: substance was on the edges of a broken razor blade

622
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 15: in the discarded bags.

623
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: Tell our hearts joining us from the heart for current

624
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: Do the prosecutors believe that the box cutter is the

625
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: murder weapon.

626
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 7: Prosecutors haven't indicated at all what they think the murder

627
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 7: weapon was or even how Jennifer died. And that was

628
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 7: the first time we heard about that box cutter being

629
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 7: pulled from those trash cans, and the prosecution surprisingly didn't

630
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 7: spend much time on it.

631
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: It could have been something akin to being used to

632
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: cut the bra. I wonder if there were any fibers

633
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: on it, like bra fabric fibers or fabric from the shirt,

634
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: even fabric from the zip ties which were also sliced.

635
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 7: Prosecutors didn't mention if there was any if there were

636
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 7: any fibers on that box cutter. They said that there

637
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 7: was a little bit of a blood like substance on

638
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 7: the tip, but when they held that shirt and that

639
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 7: bra up in court. It really was a clean cut

640
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 7: right down the center of both. So I think it's

641
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 7: plausible that that box cutter could be what cut those clothes.

642
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: You know what we're not mentioning, Doctre Angela Arnold the moments,

643
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: the last moments that Jennifer Doulas was alive in that

644
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: garage where there is so much blood. We know she

645
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: had to die. She as so much blood out of

646
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: her body. It's been estimated at I guess around a gallon. Oh,

647
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: you know, But her last moments, what was she thinking?

648
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: She had just dropped her children off school. It's about

649
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: eight o'clock in the morning, she got out of her

650
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: vehicle in the garage and was murdered. And I wonder

651
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: if she thought, I just want to see my children,

652
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: I just want to be back the way it was yesterday.

653
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean, do you even have time to think at

654
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: all when you're under attack?

655
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 6: Doddreji, Well, you know, Nancy, I can only imagine as

656
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 6: that she was probably thinking, who's going to take care

657
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 6: of my children now? Who is going to be there

658
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 6: for them? That would probably be her first thought, because

659
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 6: it sounds like the attack were so violent.

660
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 3: That.

661
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 6: I'm sure she was in a state of shock when

662
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 6: it initially started to happen, but there was probably some

663
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 6: awareness on her part that she wasn't going to live

664
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 6: from us?

665
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: Is that true? Doctor Errit Aeson, who has done literally

666
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: ten thousand death investigations. Doctor Aeson, is it your belief

667
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: that murder victims are cognizant as they are dying?

668
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 4: It depends on how the cause of that occurs. That

669
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 4: this was a gunsh out wind of the head, it

670
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 4: would have been very quick and a rapid loss of consciousness,

671
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 4: rapid death. But if it was a sharp force injury situation,

672
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: there's going to be a time period where they're losing

673
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: blood very quickly and would have gone through a state

674
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: of despair.

675
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: Yes, tell our hearts joining us from the Hartford current.

676
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: I need to understand the timeline when voters do los

677
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: of Michelle Traconis were disposing of all the bloody evidence.

678
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: Where were the children at that time? What time of

679
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: the day was this. Were they already home and realizing

680
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: mommy was gone?

681
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 7: Or so? That day May twenty fourth, the kids were

682
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 7: actually headed to New York City because that's where their

683
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 7: orthodontist was, so they had a half day at school,

684
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 7: and their nanny picked them up and brought them to

685
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 7: New York City to their grandmother's house. She has an

686
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 7: apartment in Manhattan, and they were there waiting for Jennifer

687
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 7: was supposed to meet them there and go with them

688
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 7: to the orthodontist. And that was one of the first,

689
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 7: you know, flags that was raised that she wasn't at

690
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 7: her mom's house in New York when she was supposed

691
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 7: to be. The nanny ended up taking the kids to

692
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 7: their orthodontis appointment in a cab and when she got

693
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 7: there and Jennifer wasn't there either, she really started to panic.

694
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 7: That's what she told us when she took the stand

695
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 7: last week. But the kids stayed with their grandmother from

696
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 7: that moment. I believe one of their daughters was still

697
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 7: in nu Canaan with a friend, but one of Jennifer's

698
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 7: friends went and picked her up and brought her to

699
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 7: the grandmother's house, and Jennifer's mother had them in her

700
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 7: apartment with an armed guard outside almost immediately, so by

701
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 7: the time photos was spotted on Albany Avenue, they were

702
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 7: already locked in securely to their grandmother's apartment and they've

703
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 7: been there pretty much ever since.

704
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: While the children are trying to figure out where's mommy, Photos,

705
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: Delos and his mistress are out disposing of bloody items.

706
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: Is that what time? That was correct?

707
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 7: And Photos wrote in those alibi scripts or timelines, and

708
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 7: the nanny testified that Photos was calling the nanny, he

709
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 7: was checking in with her. He was saying, can I

710
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 7: see the kids? But he was really worried about whether

711
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 7: she was going to bring them back to Connecticut. Jennifer

712
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 7: and Photos were in the middle of a really heated

713
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 7: custody battle when she was killed, and part of that

714
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 7: was scheduled supervisor visitations, and this was the start of

715
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 7: Memorial Day weekend and Photos was supposed to have a

716
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 7: visit with them that weekend. And while his wife was missing,

717
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 7: he was texting the nanny asking if she was bringing

718
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 7: the kids to Connecticut, make sure you leave New York

719
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 7: early enough that you get to New Caenaan on time

720
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 7: for our visit. And nanny kind of went along with

721
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 7: those texts, and she testified on the stand that she

722
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 7: had no intention of ever bringing them to that visit,

723
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 7: and she didn't. They stayed in New York.

724
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: Speaking of the alibi scripts. The defense has fought tooth

725
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: and nailed to keep that phraseology out of the courtroom.

726
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Take a listener to our friend Dave Mackett Crime online in.

727
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 14: Fifty Interest Warrens is something State police called alibi scripts.

728
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 14: Retired Connecticut's State Police Sergeant Matthew Riley testified investigators found

729
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 14: three photocopied pages of an alibi script in a computer

730
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 14: bag from the Dulo's homes mudroom. Forra con has told

731
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 14: police the documents were an out line of activities that

732
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 14: photus Dulo's and Michelle Traconas did the day Jennifer Dulos

733
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 14: vanished and the following day. Traconas told police they prepared

734
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 14: the papers based on advice from a divorce attorney.

735
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 16: Michelle Traconis's lawyer, John Schohenhorn, doesn't want the documents called

736
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 16: alibi scripts in front of the jury and requested the

737
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 16: judge ban the prosecution and witnesses from using the phrase

738
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 16: alibi scripts, claiming the term would be too prejudicial.

739
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: I understand the defense was successful. Tailor hearts, yes.

740
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 7: So they have heavily objected to that phrasing of alibi scripts.

741
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 7: And I believe while we are having this discussion. Shawan

742
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 7: Horne even brought that term up in court this morning

743
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 7: and told the judge that the media continues to refer

744
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 7: to them as alibiscripts, which he considers to be prejudicial.

745
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 7: So they're really being called handwritten, no timelines, no photocopies

746
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 7: in court. They're not bringing up that term alibi script

747
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 7: in front of the jury at least.

748
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: Is it true that the jury is about six hours

749
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: Michelle treconis speaking to police.

750
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 7: Yes, that's true. I think those videos are due to

751
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 7: start any minute being shown to the jury. There was

752
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 7: some discussion this morning about what order the videos are

753
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 7: going to be shown in, but there's a pretty lengthy

754
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 7: interrogation that Michelle went through over the course of three

755
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 7: separate interviews, and the jury is about to see almost

756
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 7: all of that.

757
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: I wonder what their reaction will be when they say

758
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: Michelle Tracona is very calm until one of the cops

759
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: mentions that photos Dulas was trying to get back with

760
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: his wife, and she nuts up. You know, I understand

761
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: that there was a reaction in the courtroom when Jennifer

762
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 1: dulos Is bra and Short were introduced. It to evidence.

763
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: What happened that was the.

764
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 7: First time that we really saw an emotional reaction in

765
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 7: the courtroom. The energy in there was really palpable. You

766
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 7: could feel a shift. So Michelle's family is sitting on

767
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 7: the left side behind the defense and they're relatively stoic,

768
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 7: calm the whole time, and Jennifer's friends and family over

769
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 7: on the right side have been the same. They take

770
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 7: notes occasionally, but they're pretty calm and collected. Until that

771
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 7: shirt and bra were held, you could see her friends

772
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 7: wiping away tears. When investigators talked about that logo on

773
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,479
Speaker 7: the Vineyard vine shirt that said every day should feel

774
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 7: as good, Jennifer's best friend hung her head in her

775
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,479
Speaker 7: hands and sighed. I think that was a really tough

776
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 7: moment for her, and her friends gave each other a

777
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 7: hug afterward. And after we saw that evidence, the family

778
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 7: released the statement, and that's the first statement they've made

779
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 7: since the trial started. They said that seeing those bloody

780
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 7: clothing items was brutal for them, but really necessary, and

781
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 7: that they hope that it dispels any theory that Jennifer

782
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 7: disappeared or did vanished from her kids lives on purpose.

783
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 7: They hope that that evidence shows that he was murdered

784
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 7: and that she is dead.

785
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: I am imagining their reaction in court. I remember at

786
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: the murder trial after my fiance was murdered, when I

787
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: got off the witness stand, I saw unprepared his bloody

788
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: clothes and I had not seen them. I didn't know

789
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: they were going to be there. And I remember looking

790
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: at them and I just kept walking out, but it

791
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: was indelibly marked in my mind and memory. I'll never

792
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: forget it. I'm just glad that her children are not

793
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: in court to see their mom's bloody clothes. We wait

794
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: as just as unfolds.

795
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 3: Goodbye friend,