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Speaker 1: From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben and we are joined as always by our

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Speaker 1: super producer, Noel, the high woman Brown and high fives

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Speaker 1: across the internet if you've got that reference. But today, Matt,

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Speaker 1: we're also joined by a special guest, a good friend

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Speaker 1: of the shows and a good friend of you and I,

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Speaker 1: both outside of outside of this whole stuff they want

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Speaker 1: you to know things, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you,

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Speaker 1: Mr Scott Benjamin. Well, thank you very much. Guys. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate the offer to be here on your show today.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we uh, we appreciate it even more. But

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Speaker 1: let's not get in a contest about appreciation here, Scott,

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Speaker 1: because I am thrilled to have you on our show.

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Speaker 1: No longtime listeners, you may know that Scott and I

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Speaker 1: worked together on a different show called car Stuff. And

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Speaker 1: if you watch our stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 1: know videos, then there's a chance that you caught Scott

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Speaker 1: on his first appearance with stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know, which was a video podcast you have a

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Speaker 1: very general episode about car conspiracies. All the Conspiracies. Feels

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Speaker 1: like that was a long time ago. It doesn't. I

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Speaker 1: think it was. Uh do you remember what we were

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Speaker 1: looking at, like pavement conspiracies, all the water car, I

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Speaker 1: believe the water powered car, which you can check out

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Speaker 1: for more check out our audio and our video for

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Speaker 1: more information on that. But today, Scott, we asked you

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Speaker 1: over to do the audio component of a video that

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Speaker 1: we also recently made, a lot of folks might not

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Speaker 1: know this, but uh, we're pretty big true crime fans,

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Speaker 1: like all all four of us actually, so Noel, Matt, Scott,

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Speaker 1: and myself and we we were looking into a listener

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Speaker 1: suggestion that we've received from several people, including Jimmy C

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, which was the Highway of Tears and Scott.

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Speaker 1: When we started looking into this, we knew we had

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Speaker 1: to get you on board if at all possible. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: I felt like it was. It was a right fit too,

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Speaker 1: because I have an interest in the case. Um have

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Speaker 1: not read anything prior to when you mentioned it to me,

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Speaker 1: but I've been digging into this deeply for the you know,

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Speaker 1: for the last few weeks, the interstate system and police

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Speaker 1: you know functions, and just I'm fascinated by the whole case.

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Speaker 1: I really am, and I can't wait to even get

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Speaker 1: even more information about this even after this podcast, as

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Speaker 1: we have, we have listeners who will no doubt be

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Speaker 1: writing into us and giving us even more little tidbits

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Speaker 1: that we will not cover in this episode. Canadian listeners, well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's start at the beginning. As the mad Hatter

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Speaker 1: said to Alice, I think it was the mad Hatter. Uh.

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Speaker 1: What is the Highway of Tears? The Highway of Tears

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Speaker 1: is a about a four dred and fifty section of

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Speaker 1: Highway sixteen that runs between Prince George and Prince Rupert.

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Speaker 1: And it's in British Columbia Canada. Of course, that's like

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Speaker 1: the northern part I guess at British Columbia right Yellowhead

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Speaker 1: Highway sixteen for everybody else outside of what Myanmar, Namibia

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Speaker 1: and the US, that's seven kilometers and the stretch of

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Speaker 1: highway it passes through a lot of what are called

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Speaker 1: First Nation communities along this highway. So these are Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: people's who live on the land. There yeah about a

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Speaker 1: dozen small communities. And here's the thing that you may

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Speaker 1: get a picture of this in your head if you

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Speaker 1: haven't heard of the Highway of Tears before, and that

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Speaker 1: picture if you if you close your eyes and you

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Speaker 1: you imagine this, uh, if you're seeing a place that

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Speaker 1: is very rural, you are correct. There's not much in

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Speaker 1: the way of public transit right there are new bus systems,

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Speaker 1: there's not a train. And also historically there has been

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Speaker 1: a struggle with property in these communities, so a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't own cars. Very small towns, very sparse,

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Speaker 1: very scattered, so long distances in between that are very desolate,

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Speaker 1: especially at night. You know these are dark, Um well,

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Speaker 1: I guess densely densely wooded areas that are easy to

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Speaker 1: to lose yourself on. You know, you're able to uh

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Speaker 1: to go just off the highway. And there's um I

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Speaker 1: think they said it's like four or five to one

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Speaker 1: the miles of roads, so mile paved ro there's like

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Speaker 1: five unpaved miles of road right next to it. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's there's logging communities everywhere. Um it's just logging camps,

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Speaker 1: I should say. But um, let's of course logging roads

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Speaker 1: go along with that. And a lot of those are

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Speaker 1: just again desolate, rugged roads that are way way off

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Speaker 1: the main stretch. So why are we here today to

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Speaker 1: talk about this rural road in British Columbia. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's the deal their rural roads everywhere? Well, um, as

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Speaker 1: you may have guests already, there's been a series of

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Speaker 1: disappearances and murders that have happened along the highway. Now,

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Speaker 1: the number when when I tell you this number, it's

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Speaker 1: not going to be the big number because there's there's

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Speaker 1: a much bigger number. But police say that there have

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Speaker 1: been eighteen victims since nineteen sixty nine on the Highway

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Speaker 1: of Tiers. Now, you might think that's not a whole

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Speaker 1: lot really when you consider that that is about four

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Speaker 1: decades a time. But as we'll learn later, that's really

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Speaker 1: about how they're measuring, right from from how close to

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Speaker 1: the highway did these people disappear exactly? Yeah, there's some

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Speaker 1: there's some strict parameters that they put in place. And

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Speaker 1: we'll tell you about the team that decided who is

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Speaker 1: officially a victim of the highway tiers and then all

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Speaker 1: these other cases that are not officially highway tiers victims.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of the interesting than the meat

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Speaker 1: of this whole story is. Then it's much much bigger

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Speaker 1: than anybody really thinks, right, And there are also allegations

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Speaker 1: of cover ups. Uh there is stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know in this case. Uh, there's endemic or

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Speaker 1: maybe I should say systemic racism that's involved. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with the first victim, lady named Gloria Moody, at the

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Speaker 1: young age of six, in nineteen sixty nine October, she

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Speaker 1: leaves a bar near Williams Lake, and her body when

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Speaker 1: it's discovered, is at a uh in the woods near

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Speaker 1: a cattle ranch right about UM ten kilometers away. We

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Speaker 1: should note at this time that this is in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: considered the first official highway of tears murder. However, at

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Speaker 1: the time it was not given Um. I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair to say it was not given adequate investigation or

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Speaker 1: tension of law enforcement because of the systemic racism we've

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Speaker 1: mentioned at the time, which just to get a picture

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Speaker 1: of this, U, Matt, that's something that really intrigued you, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: systemic racism against the Aboriginal people. Uh, you know, in

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Speaker 1: some ways by the Canadian government. Because there are these

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Speaker 1: things these boarding schools called residential schools that children anywhere

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Speaker 1: from ages seven to fifteen, I believe it was, would

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Speaker 1: be sometimes taken away from their family, uh by force,

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Speaker 1: sent to these residential schools where they would be I

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Speaker 1: think the quote at least from this documentary that we

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Speaker 1: watched called the Highway of Tears, where they would kill

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Speaker 1: the Indian inside of them, so they would deprive them

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Speaker 1: from the culture of their family, from the culture of

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Speaker 1: their people. And you know, they wouldn't allow them, allow

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Speaker 1: them to dress certain ways, and they kind of just

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Speaker 1: devalued that part right to try and assimilate them into

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Speaker 1: the community. And this is a school that operated for

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Speaker 1: something like one hundred and fifty years. So you've got

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Speaker 1: generations of students going through this school. And I say

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Speaker 1: students loosely, it's a it's kids going through this that

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Speaker 1: are being isolated in their family, being isolated from their culture,

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Speaker 1: not really knowing who they are as they grow up. Right,

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Speaker 1: And how how does this tie into the Highway of Tears. Well,

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Speaker 1: because the the vast majority of victims up until I

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Speaker 1: think two thousand two is the date that was sited.

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Speaker 1: I know, we're jumping a little head there, but most

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Speaker 1: of them were Aboriginal women who were going missing. Sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the reason is that you find that a lot

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Speaker 1: of these women are unable to afford vehicles, and it

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Speaker 1: comes back to public transportation and need the need to

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Speaker 1: get between those remote villages or those remote towns that

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Speaker 1: we talked about on this highway because that's the connecting

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Speaker 1: point and it's too far to walk in a reasonable distance.

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Speaker 1: You don't have a car. So you have one solution,

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Speaker 1: right guys, Well, well, two solutions. There's one that's not

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Speaker 1: so great. Greyhound Bus operates a line on the Highway sixteen,

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Speaker 1: but it's infrequent and it doesn't run as often as

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Speaker 1: they would like, and you have to be near a hub, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they would like shuttles or something like that, but that's

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Speaker 1: not the case. So so then the other option is

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Speaker 1: the one you're talking about, which is what hitchhiking and

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Speaker 1: uh we actually did on car stuff a um we

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Speaker 1: call them mystery shows. We we did one recent on

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Speaker 1: hitchhiking that led to some unexpectedly uh moral or profound

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Speaker 1: discussions of morality. There's a bit of an uncomfortable podcast

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Speaker 1: to do. Really really, yeah, it sort of was because

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Speaker 1: of you know, the moral issues. I mean, you want

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Speaker 1: to say about help anybody that's in need, and you know,

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Speaker 1: no problem, but you've got that little bit of fear

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Speaker 1: that that still lives within you, that you know you've

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Speaker 1: been told all your life, don't pick up hitchhikers. Don't

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Speaker 1: pick up that guy on the side of the road

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Speaker 1: on the rainy night, you know, as you're driving past

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Speaker 1: in But but then again, you just saw a car

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Speaker 1: that was broken down half a mile behind, and you

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Speaker 1: know that guys probably coming from there still a gamble,

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Speaker 1: I mean, unless you've got some kind of segregated car

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Speaker 1: like a police cruiser or something where they can't access

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Speaker 1: your But but you know, we're on the other side

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Speaker 1: of this though. We're talking about you know, the ones

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Speaker 1: in danger are the ones that are the walkers, the

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Speaker 1: ones that are trying to get from town to town,

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Speaker 1: trying to see friends, trying to get to college campuses. UM.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times these victims will be portrayed as

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Speaker 1: as high risk. Victims will say that, you know, of course,

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Speaker 1: the the hitchhiking is high risk, but they will also

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Speaker 1: say that I kind of lump in with that that

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Speaker 1: you know, some of these are maybe runaway teens. Some

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Speaker 1: of them are uh, they might use the word prostitutes. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know that's not the case with every one of these, clearly, Um,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not to say I'm saying that might not

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Speaker 1: be the case with some of them. Um. There's also,

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Speaker 1: you know, the possibility that it's just people that have

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Speaker 1: been somehow socially marginalized, people that are homeless. And I

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Speaker 1: know in those communities it's probably very rare to actually

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Speaker 1: have a homeless person, but it's it's a possibility as well,

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Speaker 1: and that happens here in the United States. To We're

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Speaker 1: gonna tie all this together later, Yeah, yeah, we are,

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Speaker 1: we are. Because Okay, so first murder nineteen sixty nine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: murders are continuing or excuse me, disappearances, I guess if

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Speaker 1: we want to split some hairs about it. And these

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Speaker 1: are not getting any national attention, They're not getting any

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Speaker 1: real regional attention. So how many decades nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: seventy nine, eighty nine. It is not until two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two when a young lady named Nicole whore h

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Speaker 1: O a r. Goes missing. This is in two thousand two.

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Speaker 1: She is white, She is not a First Nations, uh member,

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Speaker 1: So this was the first highway of tears cases to

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Speaker 1: be covered in the papers of the time like Edmonton Journal,

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Speaker 1: Vancouver's Son, Globe and Mail. And uh, then the police

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Speaker 1: really started investigating these as not just quote unquote isolated incidents. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And she's not the very first white victim, however, there

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Speaker 1: have been others that were Caucasian that that that had

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Speaker 1: fallen victim to this, But this one did get a

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Speaker 1: tremendous amount of media coverage and there was some raised

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Speaker 1: eyebrows about that. Yeah, wait, you're right, you're right, because

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Speaker 1: thank you for clarifying too. She was the first person

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Speaker 1: to get national attention for the story. She is not

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Speaker 1: the first non First Nations. And and also, okay, little

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Speaker 1: caveat here that we have to add is that, um,

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Speaker 1: I think they said the majority of the women on

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Speaker 1: the list are Aboriginal, so uh, you know greater than

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Speaker 1: I haven't really gone through the numbers here and figured

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Speaker 1: out what percentage of these crimes are these cases rather,

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Speaker 1: but um, you know, the majority are Aboriginal women. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and additionally, we always have to think about it in

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Speaker 1: these terms. Uh, these are just the people we know

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Speaker 1: about there could easily be more people that have disappeared. Uh,

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Speaker 1: not just on Highway sixteen, but on Highways nineteen seven

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Speaker 1: and five. UM. One, one of the things we did

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Speaker 1: in our recent videos, we talked about, uh, five things

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Speaker 1: you should know about the Highway of Tears, and that

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Speaker 1: was number one on our list. We don't know how

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Speaker 1: many people have been killed. We don't. We're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to Suspect X and leads and why the three of us,

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Speaker 1: well four of us including no believe that there's more

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Speaker 1: than one killer here, but no one, no one really

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Speaker 1: knows we are we are outnumbered by questions in this case. UM.

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Speaker 1: Just just briefly, while we're talking about the amount of people,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about this, UM, let's talk about why the

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Speaker 1: Native communities and the authorities, uh, the RCMP have a

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Speaker 1: different body count. I'll say that our CMP Royal Canadian

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Speaker 1: Mounted Police or amount and they have a different body

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Speaker 1: count because uh that they have identify Well, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: go back to the Epanic Force. So I guess we

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Speaker 1: have to talk about the panic. Okay. So um EPANA

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Speaker 1: is a task force that was formed in two thousands

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Speaker 1: six and it was used or UM rather implemented to

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Speaker 1: determine if there was a serial killer, and they only

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Speaker 1: knew about you know, they were thinking maybe one at

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Speaker 1: this point, if a serial killer was in fact working

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Speaker 1: the highway was using this as his hunting ground, and

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Speaker 1: they probably at the time, we're suspecting that, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's more than one, but couldn't really say anything. They

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Speaker 1: didn't have a number, a set number of cases in

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Speaker 1: in mind either. They knew that lots of women were

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Speaker 1: disappearing from this highway area, they didn't they couldn't put

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Speaker 1: it an exact number on it yet until they gave

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Speaker 1: it a sort of a set of parameters, something that

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Speaker 1: could kind of narrow down the focus of the PANA.

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Speaker 1: And so these three key points were and I think

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Speaker 1: we mentioned these in the video too, but um female

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Speaker 1: victims only. And then the next the next um characteristic

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Speaker 1: I guess would be that they were involved in a

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Speaker 1: high risk activity as we just talked about, hitchhiking or

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Speaker 1: prostitution or whatever it happens to be. And then there's also, Matt,

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Speaker 1: as you said, the one mile rule, and the one

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Speaker 1: mile rule is um what really angers a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in these communities because the PANA task force gets

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Speaker 1: all all the media focus, it gets the attention. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, when when it launched, it had a five

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Speaker 1: million dollar budget, it had seventy officers attached to It

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Speaker 1: was like, they're finally doing something. They're they're gonna they're

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Speaker 1: gonna really work this case. They're gonna find out what's

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Speaker 1: happening to um as the locals thought, you know, forty

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Speaker 1: or fifty cases or something like that, you know in

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Speaker 1: the area, because there's there's women missing all the time

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Speaker 1: from this area. Well, what EPANA did with this, uh this,

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Speaker 1: you know, these three characteristics are these three points? These

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Speaker 1: the three criteria that people had to or that these

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Speaker 1: cases had to meet. It narrowed it down so finally

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Speaker 1: that it only allowed for the eighteen cases that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today to be counted as official Highway of

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Speaker 1: Tears disappearances, and that really caused a lot of friction

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Speaker 1: in the communities because they said, well, okay, that's eighteen

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Speaker 1: and they're important, but what about the other forty that

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Speaker 1: you're not talking about, Because as we said, this main

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Speaker 1: highway goes there, but then you've got dirt roads that

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Speaker 1: that go off of this road in all directions for

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Speaker 1: a long, long way. Then they meet roads that are

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Speaker 1: also parallel and perpendicular. Sure, that's what we mentioned the

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Speaker 1: logging camps because it's so easy to get more than

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Speaker 1: a mile off the road. Well, I mean it's difficult,

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Speaker 1: but it's more easy. Well, yeah, it's easy to do that.

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Speaker 1: And then and then to manage if you're trying to

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Speaker 1: lose a body, you know, dump a body somewhere, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to do that somewhere off of the main

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Speaker 1: highway typically, So the ones that were found on the

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Speaker 1: highway or disappeared from the highway. Um, that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a rare situation, right, I mean a relatively rare situation,

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Speaker 1: because I mean eighteen out of you know what locals

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Speaker 1: claimed to be fifty we're so right, Yeah, And again,

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Speaker 1: only the ones that people know about in this documentary

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Speaker 1: that we watched that we checked out together. Uh, there's

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Speaker 1: there's several, Um, there's several just horrifying moments where you'll

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Speaker 1: see someone in one of the communities along Highway sixteen say,

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Speaker 1: you know, my sister disappeared or was murdered and her

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Speaker 1: body wasn't found owned in the right place, or the

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Speaker 1: authorities just didn't treat it as related, and that has

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Speaker 1: to be so maddening. And I understand that, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: a category for someone posthumously is not going to change

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Speaker 1: the fact that they are dead, but it does affect

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Speaker 1: this investigation because ladies and gentlemen even now, okay, this

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Speaker 1: string of murders that starts in nineteen sixty nine, I

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Speaker 1: think maybe beforehand to uh whatever this is, uh, something

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Speaker 1: about Highway sixteen has become kind of like a lake

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Speaker 1: in a savannah where predators flock and uh the so

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Speaker 1: so from nineteen sixty nine or whenever it actually begins,

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Speaker 1: all the way to the present day, of these eighteen cases,

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Speaker 1: how many years solved? Just one? Only one of those

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Speaker 1: cases is solved, and we'll say we can talk about

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Speaker 1: the you know, the one that they did saw of two.

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Speaker 1: But there's a few more numbers. I think that will

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Speaker 1: shock shock the listeners have UM. Five of those eighteen

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Speaker 1: cases are still officially listed as missing cases. There's nobody

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Speaker 1: that has been found yet, so uh, you know, even

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Speaker 1: though they're one of the official eighteen e panic cases, again,

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Speaker 1: five five of them are still considered as missing. UM

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Speaker 1: and in those missing dates go back to three so

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Speaker 1: anyone between nine that went missing in nine three had

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Speaker 1: been found. The missing ones begin around three upstill about

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Speaker 1: two thousand five. Um. Wit, there's so there's a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the the amount of information that this case,

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Speaker 1: these cases, whether it has generated is enormous. I mean

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Speaker 1: it fills a warehouse for the UM, for the RCMP.

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Speaker 1: They have something like seven hundred and fifty boxes of

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Speaker 1: evidence just for those eighteen cases that we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: So they really are digging into this and getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of leads, a lot of information, a lot of interviews, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, gathering evidence whatever they can. Um. It's not

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Speaker 1: that they're not trying, it's just that it's such a

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Speaker 1: difficult thing to do because i mean, again we said

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Speaker 1: it's four d fifty miles of territory. Um, it is,

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Speaker 1: you know, just this densely wooded forest area. I mean

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Speaker 1: on either side of the road. It's it's it's desolate areas.

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Speaker 1: It's dark, it's it's damp, it's it's you know, of

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Speaker 1: course it's snows. Um. There's there's a lot going against

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Speaker 1: them in this case. There's deep lakes that are just

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Speaker 1: off the road. Um, it's just the terrain doesn't lend

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Speaker 1: itself to finding someone easily when they do go missing.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and I know I'm probably just going a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different directions here, but there's so much about

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Speaker 1: this case that just doesn't just doesn't feel right. I think,

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Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, Scott, But but what what

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Speaker 1: exactly would you say? Doesn't what's what's given you the

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Speaker 1: spider sentence? Yeah, I guess it's just the Okay, I

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Speaker 1: know it's being handled. I know that they're they are

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Speaker 1: looking into this and they have they have a vested

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Speaker 1: interest in making this work. Of course, they want their

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Speaker 1: their epanitast course to to be successful. They want to

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Speaker 1: do this for the community, for the people. But the

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Speaker 1: people are saying, you know, the locals, as you'll see

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Speaker 1: in that documentary or whatever you read, because I've read

360
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Speaker 1: a bunch about this case in the last few weeks,

361
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Speaker 1: you'll find that there's a great distrust of the police

362
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Speaker 1: force in that area. And I don't I can't quite

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Speaker 1: put my finger on exactly what it is, but it

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Speaker 1: goes back to the way that they're treated at these

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Speaker 1: residential schools, the way that they feel that they're they're

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Speaker 1: stuck in these in these impoverished regions, in these these

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Speaker 1: these communities, these UM it's almost like UM like Indian reservations.

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Speaker 1: Here in the United States, it's almost like it's an

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Speaker 1: island upon itself, and each each little community is like that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And additionally, now this is a very touchy subject. But

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Speaker 1: because we don't know how many killers are working in

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Speaker 1: this area, or how how many killers used as a

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Speaker 1: hunting ground, Uh, it's also possible that someone in authority

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Speaker 1: could have committed or been involved with the commitment the

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Speaker 1: commitment of some of the murders and disappearances. And when

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Speaker 1: I say that at this point, folks, I say that

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Speaker 1: purely on the hypothetical UM. On the hypothetical side of

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Speaker 1: the of the question of the concept, I don't have

379
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Speaker 1: and and I don't think any of us have found

380
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Speaker 1: any proof that there's anything other than, you know, a

381
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Speaker 1: history of negligence at worst on on law enforcement side.

382
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Speaker 1: And then in the past few decades there's never been

383
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Speaker 1: somebody caught UM as a member of the Mountain police

384
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Speaker 1: or anything. So it the true crime or the crime

385
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Speaker 1: novelist in me just sees that as a possibility. But

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Speaker 1: there's whether or not that that's possibility. It just it

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Speaker 1: needs to be said. Well, this goes right back to

388
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Speaker 1: I mean the Jack the Ripper days, when they suspected

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Speaker 1: that it could have been anyone from a surgeon to

390
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Speaker 1: royalty to an artist to a police officer. Of course

391
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Speaker 1: they're going to suspect the authorities. And because they have

392
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Speaker 1: the inner knowledge, the sorry, the inside knowledge um of

393
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Speaker 1: you know, where the patrols are gonna be at what time,

394
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Speaker 1: and um, they kind of have like a I hate

395
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Speaker 1: to say, like a backstage pass to what's going on

396
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Speaker 1: behind the scenes and seeing all that and knowing all right,

397
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Speaker 1: well here's my way around that. I can I can't

398
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Speaker 1: smart you. It's simple, right, like the Long Island serial

399
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: killers suspected to have some sort of knowledge of crime

400
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Speaker 1: scene investigations. Just to jump in really fast, guys with

401
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: an example of how perhaps the authority in this area

402
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Speaker 1: of views women of I mean, okay, this is in

403
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Speaker 1: no way blanket tema, but there is. This is an

404
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Speaker 1: example of the way the avirgin women are treated. So

405
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Speaker 1: this guy named Judge David William Ramsey, he is a judge.

406
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Speaker 1: So he was sexually exploiting young women in this community

407
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Speaker 1: four years in May of two thousand three. He played

408
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Speaker 1: guilty to five of ten charges. He was convicted of

409
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Speaker 1: one count of breach of trust, one count of sexual

410
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Speaker 1: assault causing bodily hone m, and three counts of buying

411
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Speaker 1: sex from a child. That is a bad dude, and

412
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Speaker 1: he's sitting on the bench. Yeah he is. He's the

413
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Speaker 1: guy the authority, and he was dealing with women who

414
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Speaker 1: were of that age. The way he got caught was

415
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: a he was going to see a woman about a

416
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Speaker 1: young woman about a custody case with her child, and

417
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Speaker 1: she recognized that this is the guy who was trying

418
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Speaker 1: to force himself upon her in a car and then

419
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Speaker 1: beat her, and she she recognized him and ran out

420
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Speaker 1: of the court. Now, I just want to be clear,

421
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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I'm implicated, not trying to implicate

422
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Speaker 1: this man, Judge Ramsey in these cases of disappearance, of

423
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Speaker 1: just making a point about how these women were maybe

424
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Speaker 1: seen by some people in the authority. Good point. And

425
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Speaker 1: you know there's a few bad apples there, I guess

426
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Speaker 1: in the in the local lawtainly. Yeah that's where you hope, Yeah, yeah,

427
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: just a few. Just we can get rid of him quick. Um.

428
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: All right, So there's there's stuff like that going on.

429
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: There's a there's a lot happening all around this case that.

430
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: I mean, all these little bits and pieces that we're

431
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: telling you about, they all tie in together with with

432
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, the original eighteen cases and and plus the

433
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: others that we you know, haven't really discussed or we

434
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: can't really discuss because we don't know the details. Those

435
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: of unfortunately kind of been lost to time almost really,

436
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're not on the official e panel list,

437
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: they're not getting the attention that these cases are, which

438
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: all the honest I mean, it doesn't look like they're

439
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: even these are getting a lot because they've been budget

440
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: cuts at the EPAN office. I mean, I think I

441
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: said that they had a five million dollar budget back

442
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six when they first reformed, or

443
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: late two thousand five. I believe, uh that has been

444
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: cut uh in the year it was cut down to

445
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: something like one point eight million, so a significant cut

446
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: in in their funding, and they went down from seventy

447
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: officers work in these cases, they went down to twelve

448
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: officers work in these cases with with support staff, um

449
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: so a much much smaller task force with the same

450
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: amount of cases really, because you know, when we said

451
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: that there was one arrest made in this whole thing,

452
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: so that leaves us with seventeen cases unsolved. We know

453
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: of a few people that were were involved in this.

454
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: Now the one, the one arrest, I guess maybe we

455
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: should talk about him, Yeah, because these are these could

456
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 1: be serial right, so this one arrest could be you know,

457
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: at least tied to the other ones. Well, yeah, it

458
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 1: could be tied to the other ones. Now they do

459
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: know that he is tied to two murders. This this person,

460
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about it now. The arrest it was

461
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: made is a guy named Gary Taylor Handlon and he

462
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: was aged sixty seven or e is a just age

463
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: sixty seven. He was arrested for the murder of Monica Jack,

464
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: who was only twelve years old. That's horrific back in

465
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, and another girl who is not an

466
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: official victim of the Highway sixteen murder. But he was

467
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: also convicted of the murder of a girl named Catherine

468
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: Mary Herbert and again not an official Highway of Tears case.

469
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean and see that that shows you

470
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: that somebody that can be involved in a murder that

471
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: happens on that you know they can be related. I guess, um,

472
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: you know they could. They could commit one murder that

473
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: is an official one and one that's not, or ten

474
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: others that are not. I mean, that's just the way

475
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: this is going. So. Um, how so, how was it

476
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, you know, finally arrested. I think there was

477
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: new DNA analysis that was finally available because in nineteen

478
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: it just wasn't there. So this is all the way

479
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: in four Yeah, and that's that's not long ago. And

480
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: the PANO has been around since two thousand and six.

481
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: Now that's not the very first break in the case. However,

482
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: there was one other break that came earlier on and

483
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: this is maybe a bigger lead. Now bigger I mean,

484
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: of course, you know, solve one or two murders here, fantastic,

485
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: that's great work. Um, that's the only officially officially solved

486
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: case on the whole list of eighteen. But there's another

487
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: guy that gets involved here in two thousand and twelve,

488
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: and again this is the first break, so it's like

489
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: six years after the task force was assigned. Um, they

490
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: finally matched DNA from an American serial killer. His name

491
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: is Bobby Act Fowler. Um, they found d n A

492
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: on the on the body of Colleen McMillan, who was

493
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: murdered in nineteen seventy four. So they hung on to

494
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: DNA evidence from nineteen seventy four. I mean, they didn't

495
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: know they were hanging onto DNA evidence. They had, they

496
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 1: had evidence, they didn't know what they could do with it.

497
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: But in two thousand twelve they were finally able to

498
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: match it up using um, you know the UH I

499
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: guess the systems where they can you know, the information

500
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: that automatically matches, you know, ties up in exactly right.

501
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: We can talk about those two because I think it

502
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: maybe the vi cap system that we're talking about for

503
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: for the match here. I think I think that's the one. Um.

504
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: And that's not the only murder he suspected it. No, No,

505
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: there's there's others that he We talked about this to

506
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: the off air ben this is it gets a little

507
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: bit complicated because, Um, this Bobby Jack Fowler guy, he's

508
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: a he's a bad dude, really he is. Okay. Um,

509
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: at the time when that break came, he had been

510
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: dead for six years. So we said that, you know,

511
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, why haven't the case has also been solved,

512
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, So we're chipping away at the case load here.

513
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: They're not officially solved because no one was ever tried

514
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: for the murder. It's it's like it was. It was

515
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: an unsolved murder. They can they can put it to

516
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: rest and say we know who did this one, this one,

517
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: and this one, but you never try that person and

518
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: find them guilty officially. Especially for the families of these people,

519
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: there's there's never that feeling of we got somebody, yeah exactly,

520
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: and that that's well amplified by a hundred times. For

521
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: the ones that never find never find their family member,

522
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: that that's got to be the most little, the worst,

523
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: the most heart ranching part of this whole thing. And

524
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: you know that documentary that I watched, I guess say

525
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: I was tearing up a little bit when they were

526
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, some of the families that they

527
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: don't have an answer, They never have an answer, and

528
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: it's never probably going to come. They're not going to

529
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: find them. Um So, I know it's a dismal way

530
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,239
Speaker 1: to look at it, but it's not very likely at

531
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: this point. Um So, this Bobby Jack Fowler guy, can

532
00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: we talk about them just for traveling word ruction, known

533
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: for uh, known throughout the land for being an absolute

534
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: horrible person. Yeah, I mean the way to described as

535
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: he's a he's an American rapist and serial killer. Alleged

536
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: serial killer because he didn't really do time for the

537
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: serial killing. Yeah. He traveled all across North America, Florida, Louisiana, Texas,

538
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: British Columbia. He was charged with murdering a couple in

539
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, Yeah, and got off on just a

540
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: firearms offense charge. So he Yeah, he murdered two people

541
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine in Texas, I believe, wasn't it

542
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: um Yeah, man and a woman in Texas, But he was.

543
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: He simply was let go after they gave him a

544
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: slap on the wrist basically for a firearms offense. And

545
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: I don't know why that would happen a wealthy guy. No, no, no, no,

546
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: this is a transient construction worker who who traveled all

547
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: over North America. Has ben said he was, and we

548
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: have to say alleged serial killer because he again never

549
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: was tried for that specifically, but we do know that

550
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: he was a murderer. And again, this guy I mean

551
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: that we could go on and on and on, and

552
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a few more things. He's got an

553
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: extremely violent past, as you as you said, Um. He

554
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: was known as an alcoholic. He was an amphetamine user,

555
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: a meth amphetamine user. He had a long criminal record,

556
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: extensive criminal record. He'd like to drive around and that

557
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: this is anything bad, but he'd like to drive around

558
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: beat up bold cars. I like that to trolling for him. Yeah,

559
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: that's the thing. He's trolling ranch. He's putting lots of

560
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: miles on those old cars. You know, He's going back

561
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: and forth between these towns and all these communities. So

562
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: he sees it, um and a way, I guess, almost

563
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: like a sport. You know, he's he's going to town.

564
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: I hate to say it that way, but that's the

565
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: way these guys are. They're hunting and and he's going

566
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: from town to town and he can he can get

567
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: away with it. Because of the lifestyle that he's lived

568
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: his entire life, going into bars and hotels. Things start

569
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: to fall apart for Fowler. In the mid nineteen nineties,

570
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: He's arrested in Newport, Oregon because a woman that he

571
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: was trying to tie up, rape and kill Uh, jumps

572
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: out of the motel window. There's a rope that's tied

573
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: to her ankle. She survives, she gets thankfully, gets the

574
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: police and in nine and that leads to a nineteen

575
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: nine six conviction of kidnapping, attempted rape, sexual abuse, coursion, assault,

576
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: and menacing, which I did not know you could get

577
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 1: arrested menacing. Sure, Yeah, he's definitely a menacing character. So

578
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: all this is happening, right, He's got all this in

579
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: his background is past. And of course they find you know,

580
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: they find him in a very unusual situation with this

581
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: this woman who's jumped out of a second story window. Um,

582
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: clearly something devious is going on there that she's she's scared. Um.

583
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: They get a DNA sample from him at this point

584
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: because you know, now he's captured, he's he's he's in

585
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: the system. I guess. So he's he's captured and he

586
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: was in there. When did you say ben was a

587
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: June of nineteen I believe. So he's in prison of June.

588
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: There are more murders that happened on the Highway of

589
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: Tears after June of n when he is in prison already.

590
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: Now they do match his DNA with what we said

591
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: it was Colleen McMillan, I believe it was. Yeah, they

592
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: match that from the nineteen seventy four victims, So he

593
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: could have been active on that highway from nineteen seventy

594
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: four all the way through nineteen nine five when he

595
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 1: was picked up in June. Now, he was in Oregon

596
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: when we got picked up, so he wasn't it wasn't

597
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: in that area. But that's it's close enough for really,

598
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: I mean, take a look at a map. It's not

599
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: that far away. It's not that hard to to extrapolate

600
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: that he could have been there as late as nineteen Now.

601
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: I think they've only tied him to maybe a couple

602
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: of these. Now there's others. Yeah, there's the one, the

603
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: Colleen McMillan. That's well, that's uh no, that's not the one. Well,

604
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: that's the one that's attributed to him officially, but he

605
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: that it's not officially solved because he never was tried

606
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: for it. That like Gary Taylor um or Handling rather

607
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: um the ones that that uh Bobby Jack Fowler is

608
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: considered a prime suspect, and that's that's another thing. So

609
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: of course we know he's guilty of the Collie McMillan.

610
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: We got that nineteen four. But back in the nineteen

611
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: seventy three, there were a pair of murders, one in October,

612
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: one in November. And the October murder was gayl Ways

613
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: and the November murder was Pamela Darlington. And they both,

614
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: you know, the same thing, right off the highway. Both disappeared.

615
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were hitchhiking. I think one

616
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: was hitchhiking. Both were actually hitchhiking trying to get to

617
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: a local bar I think it was. And um, again,

618
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: he's a strong, strong suspect in those And many say,

619
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: and I've heard this, there's a there's a number here.

620
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: Many say he's tied in with three other victims. You know,

621
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: there could be others that are, you know, sort of

622
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: their their tentative about saying that he's involved. Then others say, no,

623
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: it's more like ten. There's more like ten in this region.

624
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: And this gives you, gives you a glimpse of just

625
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: how bad this guy is, because they think that in

626
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: the United States, in the United States loaned he may

627
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: have as many as twenty victims, but they never caught

628
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: him any of them. So this guy got away with it,

629
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: and he lived in jail for what another ten years

630
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: I think, and then he died and died of lung

631
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: cancer when he was two thousand six sixty six. So,

632
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, even though there's this glimmer of hope that

633
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, we know what happened. We can piece it together.

634
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: We know that you know, in night the early eighteen

635
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: seventies and um possibly as late as the nineteen nineties,

636
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: he was active on this highway and involved with with

637
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: what's going on. We kind of know what's going on.

638
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: It gives families just a little bit of closure, but

639
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: not what they need for sure. And that's only one

640
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: of the killers on the Highway of Tears that we

641
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: know about. We're going to look at some more of

642
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: the killers, the ones who have been caught in other circumstances, right, uh,

643
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: the ones who are suspected. I mean, this is like

644
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: true detective style monster, right. This is the kind of

645
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: guy that you imagine when you imagine any horrible human beings.

646
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: I'm glad you put it that way, because that's a

647
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: that's a good visual visualization of this guy. Take a

648
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: look at his mug shot if you get a chance

649
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: just just do a Google search for Bobby Jack Fowler

650
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: and you will not be upset by what you see there.

651
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: It's gonna be exactly what you think he looks like.

652
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's awful. Before we go too deep

653
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: into the killer stuff, you guys, I do have one interesting,

654
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit less grizzly trivia fect please, we

655
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: were talking, um, we we're talking off air before when

656
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: we were making the video about what epana stands for. Yes,

657
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: since the task Force, the task Force investigating the Highway

658
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: of Tears, uh, Epana actually comes from the name of

659
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: a god in Inuit mythology, which is Pana, and Panna

660
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: is a god who cares for souls in the underworld

661
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: after all, right, very nice before they are reincarnated. There's

662
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: a deep meaning behind the task force because I had

663
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: just kind of assumed that it would be an unnecessarily

664
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: long acronym. Maybe it's more of the US government that

665
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: does that stuff. Well, car companies. We know that benies

666
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: love to make up acronyms. So with that brief with

667
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: that brief reflective moment, I guess it's time to dive

668
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: back into some of the other murderers. Yeah, you know,

669
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: and we just kind of wrapped up with Bobby Jack

670
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: Fowler and how he couldn't have been involved with you

671
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: know this, I guess a specific set of murders that

672
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: happened after he was in prison, and they are careful

673
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: about laying that out in the in the cases year

674
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: when when you read about the eight team that are involved,

675
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: you know, the ones that were the official cases, they

676
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: make a special point to say that Follower was apprehended

677
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: for crimes in the USA in June of this year

678
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: and therefore couldn't have been involved with this murder from

679
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: this point on. So what they're what they're saying, is

680
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: everyone up prior to this one, you know, you never know.

681
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: I mean they're saying strong suspect in three, well two

682
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: of the you know, there's one that they knew he

683
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: was involved, Strong suspect and the other two, but then

684
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: others say we're we're kind of looking him for more

685
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: than just those two. Well, one of the issues would

686
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: be then tracing the timeline of that killer's travels, which

687
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: is going to be difficult given the time period there, well,

688
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: difficult given his character as well, because he's again he's

689
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: on the fringes of society, basically untraceable. I mean, really

690
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: as close to it as you can get. So we

691
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: have a couple other killers named we mentioned Gary Taylor Hanlin. Yeah,

692
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: we have some other people on the docket as well.

693
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: Cody Lejabakov. Cody Lejabakov if you are Canadian and adds,

694
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: are you have heard of this killer? Uh? Cody Lejabakov

695
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: um operating in British Columbia, born in Guy. He's a

696
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: young guy. And uh, I want to point this out,

697
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: none of these were officially high waved here as murders,

698
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: but it's it shows you that he's operating the same

699
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: area right near Prince George. Four victims and again he's

700
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: really close, but he's not officially involved in this whole thing.

701
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: So so this is the third one that we're talking

702
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: about here, and then we've got that whole other set

703
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: of victims that um, you know, the four that happened

704
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: after um Fowler was arrested. So that means that there's

705
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: at least one more operating. So so I didn't mean

706
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: to derail here right on Cody, but um, what have

707
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: you got about Cody, because um, he's also bad at

708
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: four or four murders and he's like twenty one or something. Yeah,

709
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: and uh. He was convicted on four counts of first

710
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: degree murder almost a year ago today, September eleventh, two

711
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: and fourteen. He maintains his innocence and said that he

712
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: was involved with the murders, but that a drug dealer

713
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: and to the drug dealer's friends were the actual murders.

714
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 1: And these kind of fanciful tales are often spunning courtrooms

715
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: by the disturbed. Is this the guy that they actually

716
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: they saw him pulling off of a logging road in

717
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: his truck. The officer pulled him over, asked him about

718
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like an equipment violation or something.

719
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: Something was wrong. He knew he shouldn't have been there,

720
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: so he talked to him, realized that he had blood

721
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: stains on his on his pants and on his shoes,

722
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: I think, and shirt and everything. So the officer goes

723
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: back down the road that he had just you know,

724
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: come off of the one that the truck had just

725
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: exited from, and he finds the remains of a woman

726
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: who had just been dumped, I mean just like and

727
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: had been murdered within hours of when when he found her.

728
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: So he caught him red handed leaving the crime scene,

729
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: and he is saying, I'm not involved in this is

730
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: somebody else his Yeah, his uh, original statement regarding the

731
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: blood on his pants when asked by the police was

732
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: that he was poaching and he had clubbed a deer

733
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: to death because quote, I'm a redneck. That's what we

734
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: do for fun. Yeah, and uh, I mean it doesn't

735
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: get much more clear than this that you know he

736
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: of course, this is this is him. He's got he's

737
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: got red handed, he's got you know, the uh, he's

738
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: got all the evidence on him around him. The truck

739
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: is the course seized, and you know that's loaded with

740
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: d n A. It's um, it's it's definitely him in

741
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: this case. Now there four women, I think, uh the

742
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: oldest one was like thirty five years old, which is

743
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: a bit out of the ordinary for this uh four

744
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: Highway of Tiers. Yeah, because at this point the the

745
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: ages range from twelve to thirty three. So the this

746
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: would have been the oldest person on the list had

747
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: they been included in the official Highway of Tiers list.

748
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: But they're not. These four are these four are separate

749
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: issue and this this goes to something else I want

750
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: to make a note here about the allegations of cover up,

751
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: because I neglected to mention this earlier. There has been

752
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: an actual cover up in that the Ministry of Transport

753
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: deleted emails regarding regarding the case UH. That report comes

754
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: from from employee there, Tim Duncan, and Tim Duncan said

755
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: that an aid deleted the learned assistant excuse me, deleted

756
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: the emails. So when you hear people talk about a

757
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: cover up, that's what they're talking about. It's alleged to

758
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: be about a dozen emails about meetings with a d

759
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: First Nation leaders along the Highway of Tears and one

760
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: of the community leaders about this, and one of the

761
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: community leaders Carriers Sakhani Tribal counselor Mavis Ericsson. She says

762
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: this is part of a continual UH cover up, that

763
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: the emails are kind of a tip of an Iceberg

764
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: thing because she did not hear about the meetings at

765
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: all in any shape or form, And she says, I'm

766
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: gonna read this quote there's a cover up going on,

767
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: and I think this just shows more of that fear

768
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: that we have that things are going on in the

769
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: government wants this whole story to go away. It's been

770
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: going on for years, and so the destruction of these

771
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: alleged emails is just more of the same. You know,

772
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: Ben who what was the officials name again, the one

773
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: that it's supposedly deleted the emails. Tim Duncan is the

774
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: one who reported it. He was an executive assistant. He

775
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: said he was told to delete emails requested under the

776
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: freedom of information at Okay, now, isn't there something a

777
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: little bit JANKI about this as well? Where he handed

778
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: the keyboard over to somebody else to actually officially delete

779
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: the emails unidentified with clear conscience say I never deleted

780
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: those emails, right, although it was under direct you know,

781
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: direct request of right and you can't say, but you

782
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: can say and then pass the test and says, you know,

783
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: I didn't officially delete those emails, and if any um,

784
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. That letter versus the spirit of the

785
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: law kind of stuff is pretty sticky. But but while

786
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: we're while we're mentioning that that note, um, we should

787
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 1: also say that we're not sure why this cover up

788
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: has occurred. We're not sure why those emails are deleted

789
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: other than um, you know, often in politics, it's not

790
00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: some grand over arching um plot so much as is

791
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of people trying to look better for promotion.

792
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: Well sure, and you know this, this ties back into um,

793
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: i'lcohol it conspiracy, but it's not. I don't know if

794
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: it's really a conspiracy or not. People believe it is

795
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: that they're just not paying as much attention to these

796
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: cases because of the people that are involved in it.

797
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: They're saying, because it's Aboriginal woman, because it's First Nation women. Uh,

798
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not as important as if you know,

799
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: the Canadian citizens, the Caucasian Canadian citizens, not the First

800
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: Nation people were being murdered at the same rate. If

801
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: if that was happening, Uh, there would you bet there

802
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: would be extra law enforcement here to take care of

803
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: this matter. They would be here, you know, in spades,

804
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: trying to make sure that they got this taken care

805
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: of and wrapped up quick. I can imagine if if

806
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: the murders were taking place on a highway between let's

807
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: say Vancouver and uh somewhere else, and the demographics were

808
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: very different of these victims. Yeah, I can see how

809
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: it would be a seen as a bigger problem given

810
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: a lot more attention, and so maybe this is what

811
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: the area attractive to predators. But the fifth and final

812
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: point that we mentioned in our podcasts are in our

813
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: video earlier, is this, And this is what I want

814
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: to explore towards the end of our show today. It's

815
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: not just Highway sixteen. It's not just Highway five or

816
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: Highway nineties seven or any other Canadian highway, because it's

817
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: not just Canada. We dug up some stats about the

818
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: FBI's search for serial killers on the US interstates, then,

819
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: yes we did. And you know what, I found this

820
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: fascinating when I dug this up because I I love

821
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: things like this where where it's not known to the

822
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: public for quite some time and then they reveal it. Right,

823
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you're as well. So back in two

824
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: thousand four, there was a privately launched initiative by the

825
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: FBI here in the United States, and this was called

826
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: the Highway Serial Killings Initiative, and the idea was to

827
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 1: create a sort of repository for information about um serial

828
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: murders that were happening, not not just on one highway,

829
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: but really nationwide here in the United States. Now, if

830
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: you haven't heard about this, I mean, this is something

831
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: that really it should be a huge eye opener for

832
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: every listener that this happens along every highway in the

833
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: United States. I mean, you can take a look at

834
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: the map of the victims that they talk So we're

835
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: not limiting this to just one highway one you know,

836
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: one mile either way on either side of the highway.

837
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: We're talking about, you know, people that were last seen

838
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: on or we're dumped on the US interstate system. And

839
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: you can do the same thing for Canada. You can

840
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: do the same thing for Germany. You could do the

841
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: same thing in Africa. You can do the same thing

842
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: anymo wherever. It doesn't matter. This this happens worldwide. But

843
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: the numbers here in the United States, I mean the

844
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: numbers are something like that. They've identified like six hundred

845
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: victims and two hundred seventy suspects, you know, fairly quickly. Um.

846
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: That was that was in the first five years of

847
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: this initiative happening, you know, like with the first five

848
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: years of operation. And that is when they finally went public.

849
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: They announced in two thousand nine that they had this initiative.

850
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: They said, you know, here's what we found. It's terrifying,

851
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: but you need to know about this. They were tracing

852
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: some lea they found this first. The The initial inspiration

853
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: for this came when the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation

854
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: and the Grapevine, Texas Police Department started working together as

855
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: they recognized a pattern of prostitutes who were found murdered

856
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: along the I forty corridor in the south and the Midwest.

857
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: So they started saying, let's profile who could this be?

858
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: And the answer was clearly a long haul trucker. Yeah, well, yeah,

859
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: there's a there's several that they've already caught. They've arrested

860
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: a few, they made a few arrests, and this is

861
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: what's interesting is they found a couple of truckers working together.

862
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: I guess that as a serial killer team on the highways,

863
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: which is terrifying. But um, one that stands out I

864
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 1: guess would be Robert ben Rhodes. And Robert ben Rhodes

865
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: is again another character along the lines of Fowler as

866
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: far as just how awful of a human being this

867
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: person is. Um he's a long haul trucker from Houston, Texas,

868
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: and he spent fifteen years torturing and killing women in

869
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: the cab of his truck as he traveled across the

870
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: United States. So this is this is a huge, huge problem.

871
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean for many, many reasons. But so this is

872
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: like just a small fraction of what's happening well worldwide

873
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: of course, but also on the Highway of Tears. And

874
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: you can take that, you know, can extrapolate that to

875
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: what's happening on highways across the United States and across

876
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: all across Canada. The numbers are enormous. I think there's

877
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: something like twelve hundred missing or murdered Aboriginal women across

878
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: Canada from like I think it's like midnight up until

879
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve or something like that. It's a big,

880
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: big number. UM here we've accounted for, you know, with

881
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: the FBI Task Force, something like six hundred. UM. I

882
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: think there's got there's got to be more than that.

883
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are. But the problem, you know,

884
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: these these these long haul truck drivers like um, like

885
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: Robert ben Rose. And there's another one. His name is

886
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: Bruce Mendenhall, who was an Illinois trucker. Um he was he.

887
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 1: I think he's finally busted after he murdered a murdered

888
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: a twenty five year old trucks dot prostitute in Tennessee,

889
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: and police found a sack of bloody clothing in his

890
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: truck cabin, you know, at the time he had just

891
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: committed this murder. Um later they found blood from five

892
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: additional women in the same cabin that truck. So that

893
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: means that, you know, that's six victims for him Rhodes.

894
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't remember exactly at the top of

895
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: my head, but um, you know, DNA evidence in his

896
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: truck counted to you know, lead to many many of

897
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,720
Speaker 1: these victims missing victims. Um, it's it's a huge problem

898
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: for law enforcement because it's like a mobile crime scene.

899
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 1: It's they're they're they're comfortable in their cab, in the cabin,

900
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 1: their truck, that's there, that's their their comfort zone. Yeah,

901
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: exactly right. And I read somewhere I think it was

902
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: a guy named Jack Levin. He's an author of a

903
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: book called Mass Murder America's Growing Menace way back in

904
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: and it's it's basically not not the first but one

905
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: of the first books about serial killers that was widely published,

906
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: widely read, and he kind of laid down some groundwork

907
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: or ground not ground rules, but yeah, elements of what

908
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: a highway killer might operate like or it might be like.

909
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: And he said that, you know, they tend to stick

910
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: to established comfort zones, and these well this is serial

911
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: killers in general. But these guys, their comfort zone is

912
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: the cabin their truck, and I think that's what's happening

913
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 1: on the Highway of Tears as well. But the comfort

914
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: zone is right there, and they stop at a truck stop,

915
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: they pick up a prostitute, you know, with the promise

916
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: to take her to the next town as well. She

917
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: gets in and that's the last anybody ever sees ever,

918
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: or just or just hitchhikers, because Rhodes would pick up

919
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: couples immediately kill the male and keep the female. Yeah,

920
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: see that I mean devious, but it's it's awful what happens.

921
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: But then they drive them into another jurisdiction, you know,

922
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: which could be a hundred miles away, could be five

923
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: hundred miles away, and dump the body and then they

924
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: see it as somebody that is possibly just a transy

925
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: because you know, we have no, um, we have no

926
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: recognition who this say is. We don't have any kind

927
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: of prints on file. Um, we don't know anything about

928
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: this victim. So that's the problem is that with such

929
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: great distance between all these cases happening, uh you know,

930
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: well the the disappearance and then the actual you know,

931
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: the turning up of the body. It's it's really a

932
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: difficult situation for them to solve. And even given systems

933
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: like you know, the the vi CAP system or Canadians

934
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: version of that, which is called the VI class system,

935
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 1: which is a violent criminal um you know, the system

936
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: that ties together people with DNA information and fingerprints and

937
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: photographs and uh, you know, the last known whereabouts and

938
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: all that. It's like it's an electronic evidence matcher. Yes,

939
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: exactly right, and that's been around since the nineteen eighties.

940
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: But there's a there's a problem with even with that.

941
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: So you can see all these hurdles that that they're

942
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: trying to uh overcome here and the problem with the

943
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: biggest problem with that vy CAP system. They're talking about again,

944
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: this is a violent criminal apprehension program. So you think

945
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: that this would be something that is mandatory. It's not

946
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: mandatory for law enforcement. For law enforcement in a situation

947
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: where there's a murder. Now, so this goes back to

948
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties again, they're trying to find patterns of

949
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, these complex multi jurisdictional murders. So you think that,

950
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, this would be a super effective tool, and

951
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: it can be. It can be very helpful. But the

952
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: problem is you have to have enforcement officers that that

953
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: do the due diligence to put the information in and

954
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: get the system to work the way that it should,

955
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: and then someone to analyze it and make sure that

956
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: it's there reading occurrect. Well, I see that, but I

957
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: also think that part of part of the problem we

958
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: should factor in isn't just manpower, it's ultimately expense. Yeah,

959
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: because it's a sixteen page form that they have to

960
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: fill out. Now, how long do you think it takes

961
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: an officer to fill out a sixteen page form with

962
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: detailed investigation information or you know, information about a particular

963
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: homicide and all the not all the law enforcement agencies

964
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: play nice together. No, exactly right, And that's that's the

965
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: other frustrating thing is it's like, you know, butting your

966
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: head against the wall because you can't get the other

967
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: guys to talk to you when you need them to.

968
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: And and not only that, there's things that they may

969
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: know that they don't know as part of that they

970
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: don't understand as part of this case and if they

971
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: were ever to talk, and sometimes that's what happens. They

972
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: accidentally stumble across some information that they say, wait a minute,

973
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: that you just struck a nerve with me. Hang out

974
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: a second. They go through their box of files and

975
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: find you know, whatever it is, or you know, probably

976
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: electronic information. But um, it's these chance occurrences that sometimes

977
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: lead to to solving these But if this, if this

978
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: system were to work the way that it should, I mean,

979
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: it's a well laid out system. The ViCAP system in

980
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: the bike class system in Canada and other places have

981
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: similar systems for violent criminals. But if they could just

982
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: get it all to work together, if they could get

983
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: somebody to analyze the information correctly, if they could you know,

984
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ifs in this in the story,

985
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: but if they could do that, they might make some

986
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: headway on some of these cases. So here's the worst

987
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: thing for me. You have to get caught first, one

988
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 1: time for something in order to even be in that system. Right, true,

989
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: if you're like Bobby Fowler and you just haven't gotten

990
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: caught for a long time, then you don't It doesn't well,

991
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: he was repeatedly arrested. But unless he unless he's arrested

992
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 1: for something that would specifically put him in a violent

993
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: crime database right there. True, And what I was talking about,

994
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: that sixteen page form is for particular characteristics of a homicide,

995
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: and so you know, there's lesser there's lesser versions of that.

996
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: So like you may input him in the system and say,

997
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: this guy is an alcoholic who likes to fight at

998
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: the local bar. Um he got you know, busted for

999
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: breaking a bottle and stabbing somebody in the arm with it,

1000
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, But um, you know, I don't know what

1001
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: charge that would come with. But that's what he's in

1002
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: the system as not necessarily as I meane, we caught

1003
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: this guy, he's suspected of, you know, being a serial killer.

1004
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: So I guess it really depends on just you know,

1005
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: how much effort they put into correctly categorizing these people

1006
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: when they put them in the system. It's vital, however,

1007
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: I mean, and sorry to bust in, I don't want

1008
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: to interrupt what you guys are saying, but it's vital

1009
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: for this sort of stuff to be done. At last count,

1010
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: I think there was an investigation discovery piece on this

1011
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: There are twenty five, twenty five former long haul truckers

1012
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: currently in prison for serial murder. Well, that's a significant

1013
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: it's a hell of a big number. That is a

1014
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: big number. Now, I know that you're saying five, and

1015
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 1: we're saying that's a that's a huge number, cause they're

1016
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: responsible for more than one just by nature being serial killers. Yeah,

1017
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: and that that's occurring over a period longer than a month,

1018
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: So multiple victims longer than a month. That means these

1019
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: guys are out there for a long time doing this.

1020
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: Who knows how many. And of course we are required

1021
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: to say, of course we're going to point this out.

1022
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: The vast majority of people in the world, let alone truckers,

1023
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: are honest, hard working people who are just trying to

1024
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: get a buck. But we're talking about I think that

1025
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: it's it's war fair to say that these people who

1026
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: are using the veneer of being a trucker are not

1027
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: actually trying their killers. Yeah, that's the and this is

1028
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: this is the way that they get to do what

1029
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: they do. And uh, and they find it. You know,

1030
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: if they were to eliminate that from their life, you know,

1031
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: the trucking part of their life, they wouldn't be able

1032
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 1: to do this, and and they're never going to give

1033
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,919
Speaker 1: that up. So one of one last thing I guess

1034
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: that I need to is that, you know, looking into

1035
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: all these numbers, and we said have been you know,

1036
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: convicted of being sirculars or that are known ser killers

1037
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: that um, the FBI is is captured. They say that,

1038
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, there's the numbers are just enormous. You know

1039
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: how many they believe are out there in the highways.

1040
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: Now I've seen numbers that range, well, there's huge range.

1041
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: So we'll say, you know, we we think that at

1042
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: any given point there's sixty seven serial killers work in

1043
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: the highway systems at any given time. Others may say

1044
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: three hundred and everything in between. So it's a huge,

1045
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: huge number. And I don't think a lot of people

1046
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: really know that this is happening out on the highways.

1047
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: And it's not just the US, it's not just Canada's

1048
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: not just Europe. It's all over the world. It's it's

1049
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: it's happening, So use some caution. Really, I mean, when

1050
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: I started reading about all this stuff, it just it

1051
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: really is an eye opener. Yeah, I mean, it makes

1052
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: it makes you fear for anybody traveling, uh, you know,

1053
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: you want to be very diligent about you know, checking

1054
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: in and knowing where they're gonna be and when they're

1055
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: gonna be there, and it's it definitely distorts my memories

1056
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: now of running around you know, sometimes truck stops, sometimes

1057
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: rest stations along the highway system in the US. Sure,

1058
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: I used to sleep at rest stops in my car

1059
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: because I had that, you know, I had my day

1060
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: trip or road trip math about how far I could go,

1061
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 1: and I would arrange that by you know, I would

1062
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: arrange that by where I could stop at a park

1063
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: or at a rest stop. And we haven't even talked

1064
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: about disappearances in national parks, which may be a podcast

1065
00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: for another day. But the truth of the matter, listeners,

1066
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: is that there exist more than one level of a culture.

1067
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: The US, the world that most of us know if

1068
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: we live here, is more like the top layer of

1069
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: an onion. There are people who just travel from National

1070
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: Park to national park. There are killers who just travel

1071
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: up and down I forty and I know it sounds alarming,

1072
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: and it is, But unlike some alarm ass things, this

1073
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: is terrifying because it is true. Uh. Now, Matt earlier

1074
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: off there, you said that you had you had one

1075
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: more thing that we should end on. Is that correct?

1076
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: I did? I was gonna wait, wait a second, are

1077
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: you getting that too? Is it just my headphones? Are

1078
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: you guys getting that? No? I hear it too, some

1079
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: sort of almost like the sound of a truck rolling

1080
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: through the distance, but also drums, but also drums. Here's

1081
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: to what's going on? Hey everybody, ladies and gentlemen. It

1082
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: is uh, super producer Noel Brown. That music always means,

1083
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: of course, at this time for a moment with Noel,

1084
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:15,959
Speaker 1: Hey man, how are you doing? Ben Matt Scott? You're

1085
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: making some serious eye contact with us as you were

1086
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: saying her names. This is creepy. I'm well, thank you

1087
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: for asking. Yeah, so did you did you catch what

1088
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: we were talking about? I'm gonna have to be like

1089
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: really honest with you. This is a one of the

1090
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: rare situations where I've actually been jumping up and down

1091
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: and going on the other studio and doing other things.

1092
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: So I actually have no idea what this episode was about. Well, hey,

1093
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: well you should check give us a clip it out. Well,

1094
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: I will when I when I edited. I'm sure, Well,

1095
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: we were you know we were talking. We started talking

1096
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: about a thing called the Highway of Tears, and I'm

1097
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: not gonna go to in depth in it, but let's

1098
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: just recap the whole thing. We just did a show

1099
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: on it. Noah, you guys, I heard snatches here. I

1100
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: get that. Okay, we had, you know, we had to

1101
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: ask Scott on because this this is something that is

1102
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: related both to the automotive world and to the true

1103
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: crime worlds. Scott's also kind of a stand up guy.

1104
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, shucks, yeah, no, no, you're I just had to, okay,

1105
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: really fast, bring something up in apropo of nothing. I

1106
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: have to say that every time I see the notes

1107
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: that Scott Benjamin takes and the way that he takes

1108
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: them and arrange them, every time I see it, I

1109
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: am thoroughly impressed, not only that you function in that way,

1110
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: but that there's so much detail going on here. There

1111
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: there are okay, so it's this yellow I guess that's

1112
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,479
Speaker 1: notebook pad. Yes, that's a legal pad. And then there

1113
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: are post it notes all over it with like pointing

1114
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: to things to say, Okay, this is where we go

1115
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: from here, this is how we get to hear I

1116
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: love it. It's that's that's you know, I left over

1117
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: from back of my days of like floor directing, you know,

1118
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: for for video shoots and things, because you had to

1119
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: walk your way through a complex script or something that

1120
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, you don't shoot in order, so you have

1121
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: to map all that stuff out ahead of time. And

1122
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: I find that's the way that I worked best. So

1123
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: I just kind of carried it over into the podcasts. Well,

1124
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: thank you, No, I have to. I'll see Scott just

1125
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: standing at the window writing on the window canes with

1126
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: a grease pencil, just red rum over and over again.

1127
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: Uh so, um, I have to I have to ask them. No. Um,

1128
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,919
Speaker 1: we talked about this in this question for everybody. Uh

1129
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: what like, does does this affect your earlier conversation or

1130
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: the earlier conversations we've had about hitchhiking, This this whole

1131
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: idea of well, this whole truth about the amount of

1132
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: serial murderers getting away Scott free, no offense on on

1133
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: the on the interstates. I mean, I didn't need anything

1134
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: to affect my outlook on you know, picking up hitchhikers.

1135
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 1: But sure pretty adamantant period. Yeah, I think the know,

1136
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: a little bit of healthy paranoia is probably good for

1137
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: the old self preservation game. I would say, that's just me.

1138
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: Call me, you know, jadedn't but I'll get mad at

1139
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: you if you call me jaded. That's never one. Definitely

1140
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: not jaded a little bit, guys, But I don't know.

1141
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: I would say optimistic. Uh, that's fair, that's fair, it's fair.

1142
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: But what about you, Scott Definitely well, you know I

1143
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: I've already kind of already kind of skittish about it anyways,

1144
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, um, should you? Should you not? But uh,

1145
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: the cases that we're talking about, it's always that the

1146
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: bad guy is the one that's picking up the hitchhiker.

1147
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: It's not the other way around. It's not that the

1148
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: hitchhiker is the bad person. And and those cases happen

1149
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: as well, you pick up a bad dude on the

1150
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: s road and something horrible happens, you know, to either

1151
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: an individual or family or whatever. But this is like

1152
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: the opposite of that. So it kind of gives me

1153
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: like even more um, just information in my head to

1154
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: swim it around like this is just a bad deal.

1155
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: Don't don't pick up a hitchhiker. No, and don't hitchhike

1156
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: in our earlier car stuff podcasts, which you can check

1157
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: out listeners if you're interested on hearing more about hitchhiking. Uh.

1158
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: In our earlier podcasts on this UH, we talked a

1159
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: little bit about the rise of hitchhiking being associated with

1160
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: counterculture in the sixties, right, and how the I think

1161
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: it might have been the FBI, but government agencies propagated

1162
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: this idea that, uh, you know, stones hippies were gonna

1163
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 1: kill you because stoners are notoriously furious, impulsive go getters. Right, yeah,

1164
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: and uh, and so how much of that is fear

1165
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: culture and how much of it is healthy skepticism? Now,

1166
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: of course, I I also think you have to exercise judgment.

1167
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: My girlfriend, as I think I mentioned on car stuff,

1168
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: has banned me from picking up hitchhikers. I just like

1169
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: strangers meet too, but pen, there are other ways you

1170
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: can meet strangers all over the place. Man, it's a

1171
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: hazardous activity, that's what he's saying. I mean, everybody's kind

1172
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: of a stranger. You don't really know someone, do you? Wait? Fully? Like,

1173
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: scenes got a couple of times that's true. Welcome on

1174
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: like every day. Well, let's end before we started accusing

1175
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: each other various murders. Uh, guys. I know this was

1176
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: a long podcast, but we hope that you I don't

1177
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: know if enjoyed it is the right word, but we

1178
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: hope that you found it interesting. Can I can I

1179
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: just say something. I know that we say this every

1180
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: time on car stuff, but we we try to put

1181
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: out so much information, so many little bits and pieces here,

1182
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: and we we try to tie together the best we can.

1183
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: You know, we're using these complex notes that match. But um,

1184
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: you'd be doing yourself a big favor if you were

1185
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: to search it and and read about it yourself, because

1186
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: that way it just kind of makes a little more sense.

1187
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: It might be laid out in a way that makes

1188
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: more sense to you. But hopefully we got to the

1189
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: main points and at least open your eyes to a

1190
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: problem that's happening, and and maybe even just kind of

1191
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: give you that little bit of I guess maybe a

1192
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: little bit of fear when you're out there in the highway,

1193
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 1: that you know, just be cautious, be aware, and an awareness.

1194
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: I think awareness is one of the biggest issues with

1195
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: these things. Just if if more people knew that it existed,

1196
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: I feel like it becomes a part of zeitgeist, and

1197
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: then we can actually put you know, from enough people

1198
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: care about something, it will get the presence that it needs,

1199
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: the maybe even the funding that it needs. Sure, and

1200
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: I fear I shouldn't have said fear may be awareness

1201
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: is much is a much better way to step There's okay,

1202
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: I feel like this is the most important point, and

1203
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: so I held onto this for a while. But just

1204
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: to be just to be absolutely clear for everyone listening

1205
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 1: to this, whether you are involved in some way with

1206
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: the Highway of Tears or whether this is a story

1207
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: you've heard for the first time, our collective hearts go

1208
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: out to the victims. There are more than eighteen, and

1209
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: a bureaucratic division does not change that fact. And we

1210
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: hope that the law enforcement folks who are often outnumbered

1211
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: by problems UH and the set by red Tip, we

1212
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: hope that UH they are like their work pays off

1213
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: because these people are busting their humps, and UM, it

1214
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: would it's time for these families to have closure if

1215
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: at all possible. Agreed. So if you have any thoughts

1216
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: on the Highway of Tears or anything else that we've

1217
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: talked about in this podcast, you can find us on

1218
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: Facebook and you can find us on Twitter. We are

1219
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff at both of those. You can also find

1220
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: us on there. All these places you can find us.

1221
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: You can. We even have a SoundCloud account if you

1222
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 1: want to listen to the stuff they don't want you

1223
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: to know through. So that's over and over and over.

1224
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: That's not real, is it. It's really it's the real

1225
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: thing is SoundCloud? Yeah? SoundCloud? Come on, Well, it's a

1226
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: cloud of sound it's beautiful stuff. I know I take

1227
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: a lot of ribbon a right here for stuff like that,

1228
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: but come on, SoundCloud. That's that's that thing. Look, it

1229
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: was a great idea when it came out. It was

1230
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: a way to upload your music so people could stream

1231
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: it for free for indie artists. Okay, I gotta stand

1232
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: up for SoundCloud. My favorite Scott Benjamin lines is the

1233
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: time where I think I think he got a little

1234
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: bit irritated with one of our co workers, Allison. We'll

1235
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: not really irritated, but you were saying, you were saying,

1236
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: she said, Scott, but you don't have any apps on

1237
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: your phone, and he said, what an app man do

1238
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: with an app? You you show me an app that

1239
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: does something for me and I'll download it. Oh nice? Yeah,

1240
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:48,959
Speaker 1: how often do you tweet. By the way, Ben takes

1241
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: care of the tweet. Yeah. Well well look, if you

1242
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: send things, you can also send things to car stuff

1243
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 1: is it at car stuff hs W? Yeah, and on

1244
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: Twitter and you can also find them on Facebook. That's

1245
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: where you're gonna find Scott. Any other places that they

1246
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: should look forward to our website. I guess car Stuff

1247
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: show dot com excellent? What's is that same deal with stuff?

1248
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: And I want you to know you're gonna find audio podcasts,

1249
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: some videos, blogs, all that stuff. All that stuff, and

1250
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: of course, if you have any topic that you would

1251
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: like us to check out in the future, please feel

1252
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 1: free to reach out to us directly. Our best ideas

1253
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: come from you. And if you have those ideas and

1254
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: you don't like the social media to Scott, you can

1255
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: send us an email. We are conspiracy at how stuff

1256
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: works dot com for more on this topic and other

1257
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: unexplained and on the non visit YouTube dot com slash

1258
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch on Twitter

1259
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: at the handle at conspiracy Stuff.