1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,879
Speaker 1: today's best minds and Eli Lily will lower insulin prices

4
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 1: to thirty five dollars after the Biden administration's pressure. We

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 1: have the show of Shows Today, Media Matters. Angelo Karasone

6
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 1: talks to us about the latest revelations from Fox's dominion

7
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 1: lawsuit and what the future holds for the network. Semaphore's

8
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: Dave Weigel sends us a dispatch from sepacks increasingly divided

9
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: circus show. But first we have the host of the

10
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 1: focus group podcast The Bulwarks to Sarah Longwell, welcome back

11
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,440
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Sarah Longwell, Hey, great to be here,

12
00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 1: very excited to have you. I want to start with

13
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 1: this Atlantic headline. I'm sure you read this piece in

14
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 1: the Atlantic today from one of my favorite Ron Brownstein.

15
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 1: Republicans are trying to stop Trump again? Are they? I

16
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 1: read it and I was like, oh, how is this?

17
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,319
Speaker 1: How is this happening again? It's definitely happening again. It's

18
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: weird because we've definitely seen this movie before, So what

19
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: you expect is that people will behave differently this time.

20
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 1: But they're not behaving differently, yet they're acting exactly the

21
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,520
Speaker 1: same as they did in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen,

22
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,319
Speaker 1: which is that there's this big group of people that

23
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,119
Speaker 1: act like they're going to run for president and they

24
00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: all somehow think they can do it without taking on

25
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 1: Donald Trump directly, and even worse in a lot of

26
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,040
Speaker 1: ways by not taking him on right. So the way

27
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: that they're getting asked questions is like, well, are there

28
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: any policies you disagree with Donald Trump on? Oh? No, no, no,

29
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 1: I agree with him on just about everything. And as

30
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,000
Speaker 1: a result, it's like all just a reinforcing idea that

31
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, if you're Tim Scott, if you're Nikki Hayley,

32
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 1: otherwise purported these sort of normy Republicans, you still think

33
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is just aces and had all the best ideas,

34
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:06,680
Speaker 1: And why would anybody vote for some down market simulacrum

35
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 1: when they can have the og real thing because he's

36
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 1: in the race. It is incredible to me that this

37
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,119
Speaker 1: we are just like living Groundhog's Day again and again. Yeah,

38
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,959
Speaker 1: I mean there's some differences, okay, so and those differences

39
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,640
Speaker 1: are real, and so I don't want to ignore them

40
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,920
Speaker 1: just to say, you know, Trump's still the center of

41
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: the universe. He's the only thing going on because he's not.

42
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: Because we did a poll at the Bullwark, we used Wiers.

43
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 1: He's a very notable Republican polster. He was Rubio's guy

44
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,440
Speaker 1: in sixteen. He worked around to Stantis. I wanted to

45
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,239
Speaker 1: ask a pretty specific question that I hadn't seen. There's

46
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,920
Speaker 1: a lot of head to head polling between Trump and

47
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,639
Speaker 1: a Stantists and bunch of Poles have Trump ahead, bunch

48
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 1: of Poles have to Santis ahead. It's kind of hard

49
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 1: to get really clear on what's going on. But in

50
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: our poll, I wanted to The main reason I wanted

51
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 1: to do it as I wanted to figure out if

52
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,360
Speaker 1: Donald Trump didn't win the Republican nomination, what would his

53
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 1: voters do. And we found that twenty eight percent would

54
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: vote for him if he ran as an independent against

55
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,959
Speaker 1: Rhonda Santis and Joe Biden. And to me, like the

56
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 1: reason I asked the questions, I was trying to figure

57
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,359
Speaker 1: out what's the universe of always Trumpers, the people who

58
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 1: are just there for him and basically nobody else. And

59
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,320
Speaker 1: I also do a lot of focus groups. I talk

60
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 1: to these always Trumpers and I realize there's a few characteristics.

61
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: One is they value more than anything the outsider status

62
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is not a politician, and that's one

63
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,640
Speaker 1: of the things that holds them up on a rounda

64
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,880
Speaker 1: Santists like, even if they think he's a fighter, even

65
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 1: they like some of what he's done, he's still a

66
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,919
Speaker 1: traditional politician and they don't like that. The other thing

67
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 1: is that these voters are the ones that are deeply

68
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,360
Speaker 1: hard committed to the idea that to twenty twenty election

69
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: was stolen, so unlike a lot of the people who

70
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: are kind of like maybe Trumpers, ready to move on,

71
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 1: like Rhonda Santists, there's just this group of people it's like,

72
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 1: this guy was robbed, We need our revenge store he

73
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 1: should get another chance. That's notable because that means that's

74
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 1: Donald's Trump's floor, right, it means like he's already got

75
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: twenty eight to thirty percent of people who after seeing everything,

76
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,640
Speaker 1: already knowing everything baked in deep, they're still there for him.

77
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 1: And Ronda Santis's vulnerability right now is that he is

78
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 1: all hype, right, He's he lives in their imaginations as

79
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 1: a guy who sort of, you know, yells at teenagers

80
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: wearing masks and yells at Disney and they see him,

81
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, down there in the state of Florida. He

82
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,119
Speaker 1: won in a in a swing state in their minds,

83
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,200
Speaker 1: and so they like him, but they don't have like

84
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 1: a deep relationship with him. They haven't gone through the

85
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 1: insurrection and still decided that he's like the best guy ever. Yeah,

86
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 1: and so while I see a meaningful movement both you

87
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 1: can see it in the poll and you can see

88
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 1: it in the focus groups. You know, I listened to

89
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,039
Speaker 1: these voters say, look, Donald Trump, he's been losing too much.

90
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 1: He's not electable. We want Ronda Santis. We think he's

91
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 1: Trump without the baggage. He's Trump not on steroids, which,

92
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: by the way, Trump is still at the center of

93
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: their orientation around politics, right right, right. But so that's

94
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 1: real that there's this cohort of people who want to

95
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 1: move on. But this is my big question. I don't

96
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 1: know the answer to it, but it's how I would

97
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 1: sort of think about this. All right, Let's say Rhonda

98
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 1: Santis he gets in the race when he's done with

99
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,840
Speaker 1: his legislative session on May fifteenth, and he comes in

100
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 1: and they start to see him and they see a

101
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 1: guy who's kind of prickly, not super fast on his feet,

102
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,800
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't live up to the image that they have

103
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 1: of him. In his imagination, Donald Trump's wailing on him

104
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 1: and he's just got a glass jaw and can't take it.

105
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 1: And they start to they start to decide, you know what,

106
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,479
Speaker 1: maybe I don't love this guy so much. Here's my question,

107
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 1: maybe take a stab at it. Who do you think

108
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,479
Speaker 1: that those voters go to. Do they go to the field,

109
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: do they say, you know, now, Rona Santis isn't my guy.

110
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna really give Nicki Haley a shot, or like

111
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 1: maybe Chris Christie, our old governor Senunu, or do those people,

112
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 1: at least a majority of them go back to Trump.

113
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,960
Speaker 1: What do you think happens? I mean, I just think

114
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: that DeSantis lost a debate to Charlie Kress, which strikes

115
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 1: me as a sign that he may not be an

116
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 1: incredible debater, or that debate looms so large for me

117
00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,919
Speaker 1: in the way that I think about de Santis, because

118
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 1: what Chris did at one point, he just says, well,

119
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 1: Ronda Santist is going to run for president. He's not

120
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 1: even going to be here to work for Florida, and

121
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 1: ron Da Santist like doesn't say anything. He just puts

122
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 1: this awkward smile on his face and says, after grimacing

123
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 1: for a little bit, like let's move on. And it's

124
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,760
Speaker 1: so weird. It's like such a weird way, especially because

125
00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,279
Speaker 1: not only should he be prepared for that question, but

126
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,280
Speaker 1: also every person who's ever run for president has an

127
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,200
Speaker 1: answer for that question, which is like, no, no, no,

128
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm devoted to the people of Florida, and I will

129
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 1: think about that when the time comes. And Bubba, you know,

130
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,920
Speaker 1: like it's it's an easy one, yeah, hard one. Somehow

131
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 1: he just like stood there like a weirdo yeah, and

132
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,520
Speaker 1: like stance right ahead. The other thing I wonder about is,

133
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,760
Speaker 1: and again this is not this is very superficial, but

134
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 1: in the television age, we have never had a president

135
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: who was under six feet tall. I know. This is

136
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: always what keeps me from believing I can do it.

137
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: Me too, This should be me, but I'm just so short. Yeah,

138
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I think that the height

139
00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 1: is kind of baked into a larger question about what

140
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 1: do you do with sort of an I hate to

141
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 1: call him an alpha because he's so gross. But like

142
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 1: this sort of alpha bully that Trump projects, right, I

143
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,680
Speaker 1: think a lot of this to do analysis on this.

144
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people can be I don't know,

145
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: have strong feelings one way or the other about who

146
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 1: might emerge. I actually have a debate later where I

147
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,200
Speaker 1: have to take a position, and I'm going to take

148
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 1: Trump in that position. But like Ronda, Santis is an

149
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,560
Speaker 1: unknown because we really haven't seen him on the national stage.

150
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 1: We haven't seen him against a Republican right, because the

151
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 1: thing about the Santis is that they like Santis and

152
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,800
Speaker 1: they like Trump. Right, they are They're the same people,

153
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: like both of them, that's the question. And like Donald Trump,

154
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,120
Speaker 1: we haven't seen in a long time, and he's gotten

155
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 1: older and a little deflated. Yeah, yeah, we got these

156
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 1: weird pictures coming out of Marrow lago, but you know,

157
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 1: we haven't seen him have to like work at the

158
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 1: level of campaigning and the constant talking and the rallies

159
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 1: in a bit. And so the question is like, does

160
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,120
Speaker 1: he still have his fastball like Ken, is he the

161
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 1: alpha or will it look sort of like a phoned

162
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 1: in hatchet job. And one of the things that I

163
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,480
Speaker 1: also think is part of the dynamic that I'm not

164
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: sure how it plays. Is one of the things that

165
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 1: the people who liked to Santis dislike about Trump is

166
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 1: that he's attacking to Santis. And I wonder how many

167
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 1: people does Trump alienate by attacking another prominent Republican or like,

168
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 1: does he alienate them or does he chip away at

169
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 1: how much people like Ronda Santis? Because Ronda Santis hasn't

170
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 1: really faced anybody criticizing him yet. Yeah, I mean, this

171
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 1: is like the big question that we don't really know.

172
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 1: But I think this polling that you have really shows

173
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,839
Speaker 1: that that trumpy base is not going to say, oh, well,

174
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 1: the National Review likes to Santis. Banner right, Yes, the

175
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,959
Speaker 1: National Review is no longer the tastemaker or the populist right.

176
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 1: And it's funny how the folks from the old days

177
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,199
Speaker 1: get really annoyed if you don't aren't aggressively pro to Santis?

178
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,079
Speaker 1: Oh really? Really? You don't say? I have to tell you,

179
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,760
Speaker 1: no matter how many times we at the Bulwark say, listen,

180
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 1: if if Ronda Santis is the one that looks like

181
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,439
Speaker 1: he is in a position to beat Trump, will all,

182
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, register everywhere we can as Republicans to vote

183
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 1: the Republican primary for Rhonda Santis so that he beats

184
00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,199
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. As Donald Trump is a unique an existential

185
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 1: threat to democracy. That does not mean, though, that Rhonda

186
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,080
Speaker 1: Santis isn't terrible and liberal and have all kinds of problems. Okay,

187
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 1: So this is my question to you, because this is

188
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 1: like something that I feel like I have started a conversation.

189
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it was started before me,

190
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 1: but it's something that I've certainly gotten involved in, which

191
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,200
Speaker 1: is I have a thesis. And again, you know, I

192
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,960
Speaker 1: could be wrong. I have been wrong before many times,

193
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 1: but I do have a thesis that both Rhonda Santis

194
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump are coming at this from the authoritarian right,

195
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 1: and that do Santis, well, not as charismatic as Trump is,

196
00:09:53,280 --> 00:10:00,199
Speaker 1: really does authoritarian things in a much more successful way. Yeah.

197
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,840
Speaker 1: So this is I've heard, you know, people make this argument,

198
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 1: and it's sort of the the de santiss is actually

199
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,319
Speaker 1: more dangerous than Trump, more competent. Yeah, and I'm familiar

200
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 1: with it. I happen to not agree with it. I

201
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 1: was just I was just arguing about this with Michael

202
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,559
Speaker 1: Steele last night. Michael Steele tell him, I say, Hi, Yeah,

203
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 1: he's the best is the best. I guess my reason

204
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 1: is this, and it involves a sort of a thought exercise,

205
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 1: which is I ask you to think hard about what

206
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: it would mean if Donald Trump was reelected in the

207
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,600
Speaker 1: United States. It would mean several things. One, it would

208
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: say a whole bunch about the United States that somebody

209
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,840
Speaker 1: who attempted to overturn the results of an election didn't

210
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,120
Speaker 1: engage in the peaceful transfer power, that we reinstated them

211
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,959
Speaker 1: in power. And I think that would be the kind

212
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 1: of catastrophic blow that I'm not sure you can recover

213
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,839
Speaker 1: your democratic I don't want to say cred because that's

214
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,959
Speaker 1: too demolishing of this, but yeah, I mean it's a

215
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 1: it's a huge blow to who we are. The other

216
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 1: thing is is like, think about a Trump administration. What

217
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,160
Speaker 1: does it do so he only gets one term? Hopefully hopefully.

218
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,120
Speaker 1: Every time I say whatever I make this, people are like,

219
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 1: are you sure, and I'm like, actually no. But think

220
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,880
Speaker 1: about who is in his cabinet? What role does Don

221
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,080
Speaker 1: Junior have? Is he Secretary of State? Like is you know?

222
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 1: I think what is Donald Trump doing to punish his

223
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 1: enemies over the past few years? Like Donald Trump, now

224
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 1: he wasn't particularly competent in his first term, but like

225
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 1: he learned the levers over time, he would be much

226
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,760
Speaker 1: better at it a second term. So I just think

227
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 1: that if you think about it practically, what it means

228
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,280
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump second term versus a De Santis first term,

229
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 1: I don't think they're comparable, right, There is an unhinged

230
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,679
Speaker 1: quality to Donald Trump that Ronda Santis. He's not unhinged

231
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 1: quite the same way. Right. I do think though, that

232
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,319
Speaker 1: one of the things that annoys me about the sort

233
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,720
Speaker 1: of natural review side of things, or the prota Santa side,

234
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 1: that it is always accusing us of being like, well,

235
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,640
Speaker 1: you just want Donald Trump to stay on the scene

236
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 1: because you guys love him. He's like your meal ticket.

237
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 1: I would like nothing more than Donald Trump to go

238
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,560
Speaker 1: away forever. But that doesn't mean just because Ronda Santis

239
00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,200
Speaker 1: is the number one like opponent Trump, doesn't mean we

240
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 1: have to say that Rhonda Santis is great in service

241
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: to defeating Donald Trump. They seem to think that we

242
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 1: have to withhold any criticism of De Santis otherwise we're

243
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,079
Speaker 1: just doing Trump's bidding. But the fact is that Rhonda

244
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 1: Santis is a product of the forces that Donald Trump

245
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,920
Speaker 1: unleashed on the party. Right, if you think about that

246
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,720
Speaker 1: he used to launch his campaign. It is him with

247
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 1: his toddler daughter with blocks, saying let's build the wall together.

248
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 1: He's reading the Art of the Deal to his baby

249
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 1: in a Trump onesie, and then mister Trump said, You're fired.

250
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,079
Speaker 1: It's the most creepy, disgusting thing you've ever seen. And

251
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: it's the first damage I ever had of Ronda Santis

252
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,240
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget it. And I've sort of loathed

253
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 1: him from the jump. He can still be bad and

254
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,520
Speaker 1: deeply bad and deeply scary without having to be worse

255
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,319
Speaker 1: than Donald Trump, because I don't think there's anybody who

256
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 1: would be as bad as a second term of Donald Trump,

257
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,440
Speaker 1: just because of what it would mean. Right, all right, Well,

258
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: that's really interesting and I think an important data point.

259
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: So we're in this weird period of sort of early

260
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,440
Speaker 1: seapack is what I like to call. At the beginning

261
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,200
Speaker 1: of the sea pack, we saw Mike Pence isn't going

262
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 1: to Santis, isn't going explain to me how DeSantis can

263
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: get the MAGA base if he doesn't appear before them.

264
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,079
Speaker 1: You know, it's a good question. I mean, I think

265
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 1: it probably goes overall to De Santis's strategy and a

266
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: little bit to what Trump's strategy is. So Trump's strategy

267
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,040
Speaker 1: right now is to try to get head to head

268
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,319
Speaker 1: with DeSantis. So Trump is looking for any opportunity to

269
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,280
Speaker 1: kind of draw De Santis in, And he's not going

270
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 1: after Nicky Haley because he doesn't see Nicky Haley as

271
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 1: his competition. He sees Ron Santis is his competition. And

272
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,439
Speaker 1: for De Santis right what he's doing right now is

273
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 1: he's acting like a governor. He is very selectively engaging,

274
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: and when he does, usually the way he responds to

275
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,319
Speaker 1: Trump's attacks is to be like, well, you know, I

276
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: don't smear other Republicans, but he doesn't. He doesn't get

277
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,520
Speaker 1: into it with him. And I think that Seapack, which

278
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 1: is much diminished, both because of Schlap's controversies and the

279
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 1: fact that with Trump's somewhat diminished, he's not the rock

280
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,559
Speaker 1: star he was. He has a really committed base, but

281
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,760
Speaker 1: he's not the rock star that he was. Seapack is

282
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 1: really his you know, Schlap turned it over to him. Basically,

283
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: Johnald Trump is the featured person. It's a lot of

284
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 1: his people, and so de Santis just doesn't want that

285
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 1: head to head right now, Trump's probably gonna win the

286
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: straw pole, and so there's no reason for De Santis

287
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 1: to participate in that. He will either gain traction once

288
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,320
Speaker 1: he gets in you know, in May, in April, and

289
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 1: Seapack will be his next year or not. You know,

290
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 1: I think that remains to be seen, but I do

291
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me that he's not going this time.

292
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 1: Mike Pence, what do you think the players there? This

293
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 1: is why Mike Pence for a president is so funny,

294
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,080
Speaker 1: because Mike Pence doesn't go to places like Seapack because

295
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 1: they thinks they will hurt him there. Yes, he's right,

296
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: he might be correct. To me, Ron de santiss stuff

297
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,120
Speaker 1: makes sense because he has an actual strategy to deploy

298
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 1: against Trump. Mike Pences makes no sense to me. How

299
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 1: do you think you're going to run? Where do you

300
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 1: think your lane is? Where do you think you're picking

301
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 1: up your percentage of people? If you can't go to

302
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 1: Republican events outside of sort of the think tank donor

303
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 1: world and like not be fearful for your life, you

304
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 1: just that's there's no lane there, there's no opportunity. And

305
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 1: when I do the focus groups, the funniest responses are

306
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 1: about Mike Pence. Usually, and you know, I just did

307
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 1: one the other day with people who don't like Trump.

308
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 1: They're done with him, they're ready for de Santis. But

309
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 1: when we asked him about Mike Pence, they were all

310
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: a kid. Now, he'd be a fine neighbor. He's a

311
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 1: nice person, but he will never be president of the

312
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 1: United States. I wouldn't vote for him. No one I

313
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,600
Speaker 1: know would vote for him. I don't know why anybody

314
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: would vote for him. There was actually a great line

315
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 1: in that group to where we were just asking about

316
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 1: all the people and we were like, well, what about

317
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 1: Mike Pompeo, And somebody was like, what is the point

318
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 1: of Mike Mompo? Probably not the first time that's been asked. Yeah, yeah,

319
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: great question, great question. So they don't want to hang

320
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 1: him now, not this group. And this is where, you know,

321
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 1: one of the things I've really been exploring in the

322
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 1: focus groups is what is the state of the party

323
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: and what is the kind of desantist Trump split. And

324
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 1: it's important to know that there really are only two camps,

325
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 1: which is there are people who want to move on

326
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 1: from Trump in a lot of ways because of electability.

327
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 1: Don't think he can win, think he's alienated. He lost

328
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 1: three elections, right, that's right, And they seem unlike unlike

329
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty when everyone wanted to kind of

330
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 1: maintain that it was because of fishy things. Now they're

331
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 1: a little more like, you know, he's lost too many times,

332
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 1: he's alienated too many people. We need somebody new, and

333
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: those people are de Santis people. Sometimes they'll be like, ay,

334
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: I like, man, Nicky's nice, She's fine. They're pretty much

335
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 1: DeSantis people. But then the other half is Trump. And

336
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 1: I think what's instructive about that is how there's Desantist,

337
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 1: there's Trump, and there's the field and that like middle

338
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 1: tier of Nicky and Pompeo and Pence and Christy. There's

339
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: not a big group of voters who were excited about them. Now,

340
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: could they somehow find a way to manage to get

341
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 1: them excited about them? I don't know, maybe, but like no,

342
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 1: I think we can't agree. Now. That's where the party is.

343
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: It is it is you either get the Aristotelian sort

344
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 1: of the original og Trump himself, or you get the

345
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 1: de Santists, which is like I'm sort of a trumpy

346
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 1: orbon Those are your two choices in the party, right,

347
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 1: incredible staff, Sarah Longwell, do you have anything you're watching

348
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 1: right now in Republican world that you want to tell

349
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 1: us about? Oh my gosh, I'm watching so many things

350
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,959
Speaker 1: in Republican Well, you know, I think one of the

351
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 1: things that I'm interested in, going back to the Trump

352
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 1: to Santists divide, is how is Trump going to attack

353
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: to Santists? Like what is his method? And I think

354
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,640
Speaker 1: one of the things I'm starting to hear bubble up

355
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 1: in some of the groups is Trump is going to

356
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 1: define de Santist is like a rhino globalist standard politician,

357
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,919
Speaker 1: which I think can land because these voters have been

358
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 1: told for a long time they like outsiders, they don't

359
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 1: like politicians, and so like I am curious. I can

360
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,439
Speaker 1: see that there's this group of move on from Trump,

361
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: and I can see that there's this group of always Trump.

362
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get a grip on how big they are,

363
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: and I'm just not quite sure, and I'm not quite

364
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: sure how many of the move on from Trump are

365
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 1: just like really happy to swing back to Trump if

366
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: De Santist doesn't fulfill all their hopes and dreams, or

367
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 1: Trump's looking like he's bulling him. But so how Trump

368
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 1: is going to approach it like he did that he

369
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 1: went to East Palestine, you know, and that was sort

370
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 1: of the first time you'd seen him look like he

371
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: was going to do anything resembling campaigning, right, And maybe

372
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 1: he's just waiting for round to Santist to get in

373
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 1: before he actually starts taking shots. But I mean, I'm

374
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: sort of watching how these strategies shape up. We're probably

375
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 1: still two months out, but it's not that far away.

376
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,919
Speaker 1: In the shadow primary. Oh sorry, I'm going to tell

377
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 1: you one last thing I'm really watching, which is which

378
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,120
Speaker 1: is the calendar, the Republican primary calendar. I think people think, well,

379
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 1: we're really far out, but this year twenty twenty three,

380
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 1: there's going to be a shadow primary. Can you explain

381
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,719
Speaker 1: to listeners what a shadow primary is? Yeah, So, basically,

382
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,360
Speaker 1: because we have all seen this movie before, these candidates

383
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: should understand that there needs to be a consolidation around

384
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 1: somebody who's an alternative to Trump prior to the early

385
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 1: primary states, which means that by January of twenty twenty

386
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 1: four or February of twenty twenty four, so a year

387
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,199
Speaker 1: from now, basically someone has to be picked. Now, normally

388
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 1: you'd be like, well, we're going to run this primary,

389
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: but because of the way the calendar is, you do Iowa,

390
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 1: you do New Hampshire, you do South Carolina, Nevada and

391
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 1: the same day, and then you kind of bounce into

392
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: this Super Tuesday that has a ton of Winter take

393
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 1: all and Winter take most states, which means that whoever

394
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 1: gets the momentum in those early states and then locks

395
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: up the sort of the Super Tuesday delegate hall is

396
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 1: very it's really hard to undo that later on, which

397
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: means that so much of the primary is going to

398
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,120
Speaker 1: play out in twenty twenty three, as early as May

399
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 1: or June, when de Santist gets in and you have

400
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 1: a real race, Like that's when we're going to see

401
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. And like some people have alternative

402
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 1: theories where Ron Desantist and Donald Trump, you know, they

403
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,440
Speaker 1: kill each other, they blood each other, and that creates

404
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: room for Chris Christie Counter or Dim Scott and I

405
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 1: think that's a silly theory, but that is there's going

406
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: to be candidates to have that theory. Some real wish

407
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 1: casting over there. Huh yeah, thank you so much, Sarah

408
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: due Bet, thanks for having me. Angelo Carosone is the

409
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: president and CEO of Media Matters. Welcome too Fast Politics. Angelo,

410
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,679
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. So I wanted to talk to

411
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: you about our favorite topic, what's happening at Fox News.

412
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 1: What's happening at Fox News? I think that we are

413
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 1: watching it's sort of at the beginning of a cascade effect.

414
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 1: And you know, this is something we talked about in

415
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: the pod like a last summer when this ruling came through,

416
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 1: that that dominion was going to be able to have

417
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: access to the Murdoch's in discovery and depositions. And there's

418
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 1: significance of that because at the time I compared it

419
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: to what happened with the phone hacking scandal, which is

420
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 1: that you know, a little bit of a crack urged

421
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 1: and then the second people were able to pierce the

422
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: veil and get a slight look inside, it just unraveled.

423
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: And I think this is a similar moment where what's

424
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: going to happen is they're going to go to trial

425
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: and it's you know, more information is going to come out.

426
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of redactions in the documents, that

427
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: we've already seen, and then I think you're going to

428
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,479
Speaker 1: see additional follow up. You're going to see shareholders to them,

429
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: You're going to see pushback from cable companies. There's going

430
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 1: to be some tensions within their audience. Like this is

431
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 1: going to be a real tumultuous time for Fox and

432
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: the Murdos. That's such bad news. Just kidding. I'm delighted

433
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: so far in the filing. What have been the things

434
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: where you're like, holy shit, yeah, because I mean, obviously,

435
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: the fact that Fox News functions like a political operation

436
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 1: is not a surprise, or that Fox News lies like that,

437
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 1: none of that's surprising, right, I mean, there are some

438
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 1: people that are like, I can't believe this. For the

439
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,239
Speaker 1: most part, that's not surprising. But there really were a

440
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: few of these I can't believe that. One of them

441
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: was In October of twenty twenty, the Joe Biden campaign

442
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: made a national ad buy on Fox, and Rupert Murdoch

443
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 1: himself took the ad before it went public and shared

444
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: the ad and other sort of accompanying information that he

445
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: got access to was a part of that ad by

446
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: with Jared Kushner, who was with the Trump campaign. So

447
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: essentially gave them confidential information about a competitor that was

448
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 1: like in order to help them politically. I was surprised

449
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: about that, even for Fox. That's that's a pretty big

450
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: breach of confidentiality. It's a journalistic integrity ha ha ha,

451
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: it's sure right, no, And also the law possibly it

452
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: actually really could amount to an incind campaign contribution, which

453
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: is going to create additional legal problems for them, So

454
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 1: that I was kind of I was shocked, and I

455
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: was also shot that it was Rupert Murdock himself. I mean,

456
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: just think about how help both sort of pathetic and

457
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: also how monumental that is. Is that like it wasn't

458
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: like it was a staffer or you know, Hannity's producer

459
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: or somebody. Right, it was Rupert Murdoch took the ad

460
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: and gave it to Kushner. It just that that was

461
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: surprising to me, where it's like I can't believe that, Yeah,

462
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: I can't believe rich Republicans are corrupt? What this is

463
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: right face everyone? And so that was the big one

464
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: that I couldn't believe. And then the other thing that

465
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe was the scale. So like we've always

466
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: sort of known and that this kind these kinds of

467
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: like political abash nations were happening. But there is a

468
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: lot of direct instructions from Rupert Murdock to Susan Scott,

469
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: who was the president of Fox News, directing her to

470
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: re orient Fox News's coverage for very explicit political reasons.

471
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: So there was this moment where Lindsay Graham was getting

472
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: a little pushback during his election run and he says,

473
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: you know, he says to Susan, will try to get

474
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, Hannity to say some nice things about him.

475
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: And Hannity of course went above and beyond and hosted

476
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: him like six times in rapid succession over the next

477
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: week and a half, sort of just just flattering him

478
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: in each segment, or telling him to telling her to

479
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: redirect resources to help Republicans in tight Senate races in

480
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: October and in the days leading up to the twenty

481
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: twenty two election, or really getting into the substance of

482
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: some of the programming because it was to ensure that

483
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: they were trying to win Georgia. Like I mean, there's

484
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: just so many individual and explicit instructions and it all

485
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: seems so normal that it should give you a sense

486
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: of this is happening basically on a daily basis over there.

487
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: And that part I was a little surprised by. I

488
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: sort of knew it, but I thought mostly it was

489
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: a somewhat autopilot and muscle memory. I didn't really expect

490
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: there to be that much day to day explicit instructions

491
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: at least written down that they were doing their politics.

492
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 1: That that was a surprise. I'm surprised they were stupid

493
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: enough to write all of the stuff down. I know,

494
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: they wrote it down like a lot. They wrote it

495
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: down a lot that they this is murdockx over reliance

496
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: on email and written communication. They're going to do bad things,

497
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: don't write them down, you know, And they did. And

498
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: I think also that is a reflection of their hubris.

499
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 1: There is this sense that they were just untouchable. They

500
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: managed to avoid any scrutiny or accountability whatsoever. And I

501
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: think at this point they just felt like it, you know,

502
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: nothing can happen to us. We're untouchable. And I do

503
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: think that that created a climate where they were so

504
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: brazen about what they wrote down, and not only they

505
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: had so much disregard for their responsibilities, but that they

506
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: just didn't think that there was any chance that anything

507
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: could ever come back around the bikele. It's funny because

508
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: it is true. This is not Rupert's first scandal, and

509
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: in some ways there really is a sort of if

510
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: there's a phone hacking on the wall in the first act, right,

511
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: this has shades of that last scand all. Yeah, it

512
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: does because it unravels, you know, when you obviously we've

513
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: always known how politically corrupt it was, how how much

514
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: they were sort of treating Fox and the Fox Corporation

515
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: like their own personal piggy bank, when in fact it's not.

516
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: It's a publicly traded company. They have shareholders, and they

517
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: don't own a majority of the company. That's the part

518
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: about this that's so shocking is that, you know, because

519
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 1: they don't own a majority of the company, they have

520
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 1: obligations to shareholders to return investments and to have their

521
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: fiduciary duties. But they also have to, you know, a

522
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: delicate balance because they need to basically ensure that there's

523
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: at least another ten percent twelve percent of the voting

524
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: stock that will always vote with them in locksteps so

525
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: that they maintain control of the company. They're the largest shareholder,

526
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: but they're not the majority shareholders, and so to me,

527
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: that's the part where it's a little bit precarious, is

528
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: that you know, they have overly relied on in the

529
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: past a few proxies. One of the ways they navigated

530
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: the phone hacking scandals that you know, Prince Alaouid was

531
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: the number two shareholder and he basically gobbled up a

532
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: big part of the company to give them that functional proxy.

533
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: That's how they were able to basically get through that

534
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: period of time is that Prince Alouid voted with the

535
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: Murdocks in lockstep so that they always had the majority vote.

536
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: It was sort of an arrangement that they sorted out.

537
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: That arrangement no longer exists. They don't have a replacement

538
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: for where Prince Aloid was. Obviously he had to divest

539
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: his shares a while backas of stuff that was happening

540
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: Insaudi Arabia. Right now, it's basically owned by institutional investors

541
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: that just want their money. They don't really care about

542
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: the murdocksmosh Nations, and so they're in a much more

543
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: vulnerable position now even just from a control perspective than

544
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: they were back during the phone hacking scandal and there's

545
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: this the thing that isn't surprising at all, but it

546
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: just goes to show you what a weasel Paul Ryan is.

547
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: And I really don't think that we should discount how

548
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: much of a weasel Paul Ryan really was in some

549
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: of his communications. Is that when he's a board member

550
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: and Fox has a very small board, there was like

551
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: five people on it, and when he was reaching out

552
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: about this, he was telling her that they needed to

553
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: stop doing some of these things in terms of their coverage,

554
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: and he explicitly said, I am contacting you as a fiduciary.

555
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: This is a breach of fiduciary duties, Like he was

556
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: literally writing a document for the record. It seems so

557
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: that if and when inevitably it came back around and

558
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: the Murdos and Fox was in trouble and possibly the

559
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: board for not doing their due diligence and their fiduciary duties,

560
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: that he would get off the hook. He literally wrote

561
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: himself a get out of jail free card. And I

562
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: thought that for sure, given that one, I think that's

563
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: a little bit surprising. Maybe it's not that he's such

564
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 1: a weasel, but that he was so explicit about it

565
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: and to me that Murdoch both acknowledged that it was

566
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: his email and his notes, but didn't do anything about it,

567
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: even when Fox's legal counsel followed up and basically echoed

568
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: the same thing. So this is why I think that

569
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: they're in a little bit of trouble with their shareholders,

570
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: is that it is going to affect their bottom line

571
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: and they don't have a proxy anymore. And what this

572
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: basically shows is that the Murdocks are in a weird way,

573
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 1: not only interested in money, which they are, that's their primary,

574
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: but they are really interested in power too, and those

575
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: two things they are willing to sacrifice money sometimes in

576
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: the short term for power in the long term. A

577
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: heartwarming story sacrificing money for power. It is very very heartwarming.

578
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: Some of the things I was surprised by, and I

579
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: didn't read the entire filing, so you can correct me

580
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but some of the things I was

581
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: surprised by were the text messages. Will you talk a

582
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: little bit, because you know about this much more than

583
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: I do. The hosts tech messaging to each other and

584
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: to leadership at Fox. Yeah, the thing is, and you're right,

585
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: that is a little bit surprising. I mean, I guess

586
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: they always pretend that they're like that, they're just like

587
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: their audience, even though they're they're obviously not. They're very

588
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: very rich and elite themselves, but the host kind of

589
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: hate their audience, which kind of came out in these

590
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: text messages because basically they were pushing what they called,

591
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, they were calling people who were promoting these

592
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: conspiracies effing lunatics, you know, batshit, all kinds of stuff like,

593
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, they were just insulting the conspiracies itself about

594
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: the election. They didn't believe them, but they were sort

595
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: of lamenting that they had to push them because this

596
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: is what their audience wanted. So that was the first thing.

597
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: It's like they didn't believe much of the stuff that

598
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: they didn't believe really anything that City Powell and really

599
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: to Giuliani were pushing. They didn't believe the claims of

600
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. So you're saying that Tucker Carlson didn't

601
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: believe that there were ballots made in China through a

602
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: satellite to Italy. He didn't believe that. No, he said,

603
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: believe it or not, He did not. He did not.

604
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: Now he was happy to say it and promote it.

605
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: And I think this is one thing where Rupert Murdoch,

606
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: and this is the part that was shocking, and it

607
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: ties into the host is that Rupert Murdoch during his

608
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: deposition explicitly acknowledged that the hosts were not just giving

609
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: a platform for these conspiracies and for these false claims,

610
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: that they were endorsing them. And he kind of threw

611
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: them under the bus there because that is a significant

612
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: admission on their part, and it obviously isn't It didn't

613
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: get explosive in terms of the out out the immediate

614
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: coverage of these filings, but from a legal perspective, it's

615
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: a really big deal because part of their defense was

616
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: that they were just giving a platform for these ideas

617
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: and that they were not themselves active disseminators of it.

618
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: And during his deposition, Rupert Murdoch's actually said, no, they

619
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: were endorsing it, and I should have done more to

620
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: stop them from doing it, and to get back to

621
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: what the hosts were saying as they were pushing more

622
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: and more of these of these conspiracies, these false attacks

623
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: about dominion. The same day or days after, they were

624
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: texting each other about how incredulous and ridiculous and unfounded

625
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: and not true. They were, and yet and at the

626
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: end simultaneously attacking the network for for some of the

627
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: decisions it had made in the immediate aftermath of the

628
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: election simply by calling the election for Joe Biden, and

629
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: Chucker was texting people about how they didn't appreciate how

630
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: much damage they were doing to their relationship with Fox News,

631
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: this audience, and so those exchanges were they were revealing,

632
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: I would say, because they were pretty explicit and how

633
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: much contempt they have for their audience or frustration for

634
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: what their audience wants sometimes, but a recognition that they

635
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: know that they're there to service their audience. And that's it.

636
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: The central tension, which you kind of could see as

637
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: an outside observer, which I think is pretty interesting, was

638
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: this idea that if Fox did not give the MAGA

639
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: crowd what it wanted, someone else might is that your

640
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: sense and yes and yes and these are the two

641
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: so two things that are significant on that track. One,

642
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: and we talked about on the pot a couple of times,

643
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: is that you know, is that Fox News accepted the

644
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: election results for a short period of time and then

645
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden because one American News was out

646
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: there in Newsmax, and One American News was on the ascent.

647
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: You know, they're gone now because of these cable fights

648
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: that happened against them, but at that time they seemed

649
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: like a real threat. Fox's audience was leaving Fox for

650
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: these other two networks because they were essentially pushing these

651
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: election conspiracies. And so Fox went from accepting the results

652
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: to all of a sudden, on a dime, in the

653
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: last two weeks of November, doing more than seven hundred

654
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 1: segments explicitly attacking the election results. I mean, they literally

655
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 1: flipped and went all in on these election denials and

656
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: did it much more intensely than One American News and Newsmax,

657
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: in part because they really were afraid of losing their

658
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: audience and it was happening in real time. So that's

659
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: one tension, and then the other tension is, and I

660
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: thought this was revealing two, is that in the filings,

661
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: one exchange comes out that Rupert Murdoch was talking and

662
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: some other Fox executives about how Fox was unique amongst

663
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: anyone in the media landscape because they were basically, as

664
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: far as they were concerned, the only entity out there

665
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: that could tell people that the election was not stolen

666
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: and that Joe Biden was actually the president or the

667
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: president elect at the time, and Murdoch himself acknowledged this

668
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: in these discussions about how they had a very unique

669
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: role and that they should do something. They should go

670
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: out there and finally say, Okay, the election is over

671
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden actually won, even though they fully acknowledged

672
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: that they were the only entity that could actually do

673
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,239
Speaker 1: that to take the wind out of the sales of

674
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: this election denial sort of movement because their audience, a

675
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 1: very large tunk of their audience would believe them when

676
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: they said that, and they fully accepted this, they ultimately

677
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: decided not to do it, and that discussion that took

678
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: place on January fifth, So they could have on January

679
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: fifth if they had followed through with what they all

680
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 1: said they were going to do, made a big push

681
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: to say the election was not stolen, and January sixth

682
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: might have looked a lot different because a lot of

683
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: people would have been like, Okay, we're mad, We're mad

684
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: at Fox remitted the world, We remitted everything, but at

685
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: least we know it wasn't stolen now. But they decided

686
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: they ultimately didn't do it, and I do feel like

687
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: that was a significant exchange, and it ties back to

688
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: your question because part of the reason they didn't do

689
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: it was that they were afraid that their audience would

690
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: backlash against them, and so you couldn't find a host,

691
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: and that's ultimately where they concluded that their host would

692
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: get mad if they tried to force them to do this,

693
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: and so you could see that tension playing out at

694
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: various moments, and when they felt like it'd served them,

695
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: they did things like when they flipped on a diamond

696
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: November and when they were trying to sort of grapple

697
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: with their unique role. They ultimately didn't exercise the power

698
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: that they had, even though they knew full well they

699
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: were pushing lies. And this decision and seeing this happen

700
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: in real time with tax, is that proof that there

701
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: was actual malice and that dominion can actually win this case.

702
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: I think so there's a lot of evidence here because

703
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: actual malice standards that you either knew that it was

704
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: not true the things you were saying, that you push

705
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: them anyway, or you acted with reckless disregard for the truth.

706
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: And one of the important things that came out during

707
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: these filings, was that along the way, as Fox hosts

708
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: and Fox News was pushing specific claims about Dominion that

709
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: we're not true, Dominion itself was sending memos and messages

710
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: to Fox News basically debunking these claims in real time

711
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: and begging them to let them book somebody on air,

712
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: offering up guests to basically offer a counter perspective on

713
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: these claims about dominions. So Fox very intentionally along the

714
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: way said we're not going to We're going to ignore

715
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: the things that Dominion is literally saying to us, and two,

716
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: we're not going to let anybody on air that is

717
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: going to challenge these claims. And in fact, Fox personalities

718
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: a very hand, a small few had started to soft

719
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: fact check some of the Dominion claims in reporting, and

720
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: they got punished by network executives for doing it out

721
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: during these filings, Right, I saw that tweet, yep. And

722
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: so that is a part of the actual malis standard.

723
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: It's that it's very clear that they were knowingly pushing

724
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: things that were not true and that they acted pretty

725
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: recklessly when they were making very specific claims about Dominion.

726
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: And so that is a standard here that definitely seems

727
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: to have been met and it is extraordinary. And I

728
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: really want to emphasize this because I know this is

729
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: like really in the Louise, but dominion filed for emotion

730
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: for summary judgment that just doesn't really happen at all

731
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: in a defamation case. It's it's nearly impossible to ever

732
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: even seriously put together a summary judgment. Emotion, can you

733
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: explain to our listeners what a summary judgment as? So

734
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: basically it basically says, hey, we're suing this this entity,

735
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: and I know we're supposed to go to trial, but

736
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: the evidence is so overwhelming already that judge, I think

737
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: we could skip the trial and you could just ruin

738
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: off favor. Why that matters is that they thought, and

739
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: I think that has born itself out so far, and

740
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: the file in the pleadings is that their case was

741
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: so strong that they could credibly go to the court

742
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: and say we don't need a trial because it is

743
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: it is plain now. I don't think they're going to

744
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: win their motion for summary judgment, not necessarily because they

745
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: don't have the goods. It's because it is such a

746
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: monumental thing when it involves free speech in a purported

747
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: News channel, which obviously they're not. But that's the argument

748
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: that they're going to make, and I think a judge

749
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: is going to not try to sort of really go

750
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: too far ahead. But the trial is set for April.

751
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: But what it does give us is a chance now

752
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: to look at a very large part of the record

753
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: and say, Wow, look how bad this is. Yeah, I

754
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: think that's totally right. So what is the timetable here?

755
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: Then it goes to trial in today shapel So they

756
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: will probably get a decision about this summary judgment motion

757
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: in the next couple of weeks, and then it's full

758
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: steam ahead for the trial, assuming that dominion is not

759
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: successful in their summary judgment motion. And it's worth noting

760
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: that more things come out in trial, and you're gonna

761
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: have people testify. People are going to testify. There's a

762
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that was in the filings that was

763
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: redacted that we still don't know or didn't see, so

764
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: and I would say that some of that stuff going

765
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: to be even more damaging. This will cost Fox millions

766
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: of dollars. The trial alone will cost him a fortune.

767
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: And one of the things that happened after Rupert Murdock's

768
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: deposition is Fox said, up, We're not gonna We're no

769
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: longer going to remerge our companies. So even if nothing

770
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: happens as a result of this, and I don't, I

771
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: think that's highly unlikely, something really big has already taken place,

772
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: because up until the beginning of January of this year,

773
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: News Corps and Fox were on a glide path to remerging,

774
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: to becoming one company again. And so something else we

775
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: talked about this was part of a strategy for Rupert

776
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,959
Speaker 1: Murdock to reconsolidate his two companies and then buy CNN. Wait,

777
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: he was going to buy CNN. Who was going to

778
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: make another run at CNN? Because it is his white whale.

779
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch has never attempted to buy something that he

780
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: has not been able to successfully buy, even if he's

781
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: lost a bunch of times. That's how we got the

782
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal. It took him a couple runs before

783
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: he got it. He's tried repeatedly to buy CNN. He's

784
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: failed every time. In fact, you know, he tried to

785
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: get Donald Trump to lean on AT and Tay seventeen

786
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: and force AT and t through the regulatory process to

787
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: sell CNN. And I think it was pretty clear. All

788
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: the indicators were there that he was gearing up to

789
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: make another buy for CNN. In fact, he was so

790
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: sort of excited about the prospect that he started teasing

791
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: the first couple of days of January that he had

792
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: one big deal left in them, and everybody in the

793
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: inside sort of knows what that means. But right after

794
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: his deposition ended, they decided that they could no longer

795
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: remerge the companies because the independent commission that they're legally

796
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: obligated to hire to sort of assess the deal would

797
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: not have been able to endorse it because it would

798
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: have created too much liability for News Corps shareholders, which

799
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: is now technically a separate company even though they're both

800
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: run by the Murdoch. So, if nothing else has happened

801
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: when it thwarted that effort, and it weakened the ability

802
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: for Lachlan, who was much worse than his dad, believe

803
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: it or not, at a jointly confirmed you know, a

804
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: joint a combined company, and that's a big deal in

805
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: it of itself. So there's already been repercussions from this

806
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: litigation well beyond you know what will with all this,

807
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: and the last thing I'll say on that is that

808
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: where this is taking place is also significant because Dominion

809
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: is suing for one point six billion dollars, but that's

810
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: only in damages that they can say, look, this is

811
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: how much damage we've experienced as a result of these laws.

812
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: But they're suing in Delaware, which does not have a

813
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: cap on punitive damages. Yea. So unlike Alex Jones, where

814
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: the states where he was getting punished had caps on

815
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: punitive damages, Delaware doesn't have that. So depending on the

816
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: scale of how egregious this behavior is, and it certainly

817
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: seems pretty egregious, a jewelry can award a pretty hefty

818
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: set of punitive damages on top of the compensittory damages. Angelo.

819
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: I hope you will come back as this trial goes on.

820
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: Really really great, you bet. Dave Weigel is a political

821
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 1: reporter for Semaphore. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Dave, Thank

822
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: you every good to be here. Really excited to have

823
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: you tell us where you are. I am at Seapack

824
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: right now. I'm next to where between the Right Stuff

825
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: dating app and the new federal state of China, which

826
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: is Steve Bannon's combating the Changese Commnist party, and who

827
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: are you sitting between? I am sitting between my elderly dog.

828
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: That's also interesting not there. Yeah, so I'm curious to know,

829
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: first of all, is it like the new and improved Seapack?

830
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: I mean, what is happening over there? Improved would not

831
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: be the way to put it. So everyone wrote this story.

832
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: I'm being a little bit apologetic because everybody wrote a

833
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: verd of this story and I feel like we're in

834
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: her and but it's just actually true that seapack lost

835
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: sponsors over the last year. Some of that was due

836
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: to match lap scandal, though. Sponsorships for seapack, you know,

837
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: they're kind of locked in pretty early, so or they

838
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: can be. So you had a Fox Nation which put

839
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: in the quarter million dollars. The last couple of years

840
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: they didn't sponsor it. Um had the Liberty Health Share,

841
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of a falling apart. Yeah, that used

842
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: to be quarter million dollars sponsor. They pulled out. So

843
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: you have more obscure sponsors. People kind of shooting your

844
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: shot because there because there's a there's a vacuum. One

845
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: thing I've heard walking over here was that one of

846
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: the Perry Johnson, who's kind of a fringe Republican candidate

847
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: for president. Um, he bought a booth, wasn't spending even

848
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: more money to get a space on stage? That hasn't

849
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: happened yet, and see if it does. And so you

850
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: see it is um smaller than it's been in the past.

851
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the last times in this hotel

852
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: was twenty twenty, right when COVID was coming to America.

853
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the thing that is remembered Ben

854
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: saying right now there are only twenty seven cases of

855
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: COVID and the you invite it, you know, remember, yeah,

856
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: and he's not here. He has not been back to

857
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,479
Speaker 1: Sea pack since then, although some stuff happened between twenty

858
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: and now. Yeah. So yeah, it is a smaller by

859
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: no mean, it's like dinky, but if you can tell

860
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: if puts some costs back. I remember also that Mike

861
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: Penn's talk about how few cases there were. Of course

862
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: there were cases of people who were at the events

863
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: who had it, which is what we later found out

864
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: he did. And I actually wasn't that that one that

865
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: year because I was covering the Democratic primary for prosidence,

866
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: so I was I think Arkansas or something which has

867
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: a very low vaccinatory but nobody had any vaccinations back then,

868
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: so it didn't really matter. One of the things that

869
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about actually was a story

870
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: you have been You wrote about in July twenty six,

871
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, but it has come up again now,

872
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: which is this story of Ron de Santis creating his

873
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: own media outlets. This is something and especially I'm gonna

874
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: make this a longer question in a very annoying way,

875
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: but you are at Seapack, so you know that there

876
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: are these Maga news outlets. So can you talk to

877
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: me about first sort of the origin of the Magan

878
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: news outlet and then where do Santis has gone with that?

879
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: Sea is actually a great place to ruminate on this

880
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: because a dream for years, like the spot nick for

881
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: the conservative move for a very long time, was how

882
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: do we great an alternative media. There have been setbacks,

883
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: there have been advances, but right now there's a conservative

884
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: media that through a bus enough where a lot of Republicans,

885
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, including Don Trump, I think they can just

886
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: ignore requests from the main from the mainstream media or

887
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: what the Santis called legacy media, and they can talk

888
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: to their base through conservative media. That was the goal.

889
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: I think there you can always take it further. They're

890
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: pretty much there. I mean a lot of what I

891
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: do as a reporter has changed because ten years ago, um,

892
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, you might be able to have a sit

893
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: down with a sertive congressan doesn't like media, and now

894
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: he'll grow that requested in the tracks and talk to

895
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: Newsmax or talk to real American news. They talk. I could.

896
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: I want to lift them all because there's don and

897
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: with de Santis did I thank you for the date.

898
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: Lots write about this, but I was one of the

899
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: not that many reporters who went to the san The

900
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: Santis has an event ironically called the Sunshine Senate in Floridas.

901
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: It's been all the sunshines up for years, um, Like

902
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: it was very very very normal for the media to

903
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: show up. And actually when he won the governorship, who

904
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: was eighteen, that same event, like Fox News was the

905
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: guests and c SPAN was filmed in the debate, the

906
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: c spand the film into defeating Uh. They I went

907
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 1: there knowing that they were going to keep most media

908
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: out and actually Politico Mats and Politico obtained the list

909
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: of media that was invited in, and that was that

910
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: was not invited me. There's actually a very good story

911
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: in created by Maggie Severns about some of the Florida

912
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: sites that he was standing up instead the Florida Standard

913
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: who I talked to there yours who was a conservative,

914
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: Brandon Leslie had Florida's voice. They were the halblets I

915
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: had either been familiar with or just totally never heard of.

916
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: But you know, we're not covering the event like news reporters.

917
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: They were covering kind of their highlights and they were

918
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: so I was there because I thought this is an

919
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: interesting and because they were having these debates between house

920
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: candidates and they didn't let the media come and cover them.

921
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: So there's basically no record of what was happening in

922
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: these debates. The debates conterminative, not really. I mean, I

923
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: just had to kind of chase people afterwards. One day

924
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: I noticed that day was the Santis thinking made a

925
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: joke about his staff was on Twitter making fun of

926
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: reporters for being outside the room. These are people who,

927
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: like whatever I am, kind of crop around the country,

928
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: but people who have covered Florida for years or decades

929
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: and were there to cover the event and quote people, etcetera, etcetera.

930
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,919
Speaker 1: There's making fun of them and taking you know, taking

931
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: photos of them being stuck outside. It was in the casino,

932
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: So I worked a whole day in as cafe and

933
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: I look that event. To me, was this proof of

934
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: concept for what they were trying to do. Now, did

935
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: did any normal non politics junkie Maybe they read the newspaper?

936
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: Will they ever find out what happened in these congressional debates?

937
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: Well they won't, but that small group of conservatives in

938
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: the room did, and Larda's Voice and the other the

939
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: Santist news sites had their version of what happened, and

940
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: that was enough. So the Santist I think, has been

941
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: ahead of the curve among Republicans in creating this media

942
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: and going around the main stream press. And like he's

943
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: got his reasons. I want to like ramble on endlessly

944
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: about it, but he does not. Like the press never

945
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: has back from me. You know how it covered the

946
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 1: congressional baseball shooting to how it pumped up Andrew Gilling

947
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: when he's running Gainstom for governor. He takes like real

948
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: joy in this and has won elections by blowing the

949
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: press off like his book which just came out this week,

950
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: is a huge section about sixty minutes. They know not

951
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: very well received the poor, and every one of these

952
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: is feeds in the arguments like why why would I

953
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 1: need to talk to like the prestigious quote unquote media

954
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: when I've got consertive outlets that asked me friendly questions. Right,

955
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: I have my own media. One of the things that

956
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: I thought was pretty interesting when I wanted to see Pack,

957
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: that was the first time I realized that there was

958
00:47:55,040 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: like an entire media ecosystem of these Maga news is one, two, three,

959
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: these outlets that you never heard of, they'd have really

960
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 1: a lot of readership in Mega world. They do, and

961
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: you can kind of pokeground for private metrics. One of

962
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: the things I've noticed a Tea Pack since at least

963
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, but I know since the Trump rails

964
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: point twenty was, you know, the Epic Times media network,

965
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: the anti anti Bade communists we've following gone we didn't work,

966
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: made this big bet on American conservatives and it's been

967
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: very successful. It gets interviews with with with people again

968
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: that would be repreated myself that like might talk the

969
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: rest of the press, the press, and they have a

970
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: gigantic presence here Newsmax. There's Newsmax is on stage seapack.

971
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: Because of their fight over access to direct TV, OAM

972
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: had its own flight over direct TV. In addition to

973
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: these people, these the outlets being places Republicans to talk

974
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: to a friendly audience, friendly questions, they're also being undermined

975
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: by cable organizations, by big tech quote unquote. It's just

976
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: an interesting dynamic. It's it's as if the Nation Muger Jones,

977
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: like liberal outlets, if they were getting banned and Democrats

978
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: were promoting them on stage and not talking some Fox

979
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: and not talking to you know, the Wall Street Journal.

980
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: It is. It is a considerably dynamic. And it's like

981
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's hypocritical, because this is how this

982
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: movement increasingly it habits a its own media landscape, and

983
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: increasingly what happens in the baystream media it was not

984
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: mattered to them. You know the story. One thing we

985
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: do it's such more than it's kind of fun, is

986
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: like checking out stories by by online metrics are what's

987
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: the story that no concern I've heard about this week?

988
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: What's the story that know liberal heard about this week?

989
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: There's always something. There's always something because people who are

990
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 1: reading the New York Times cover to cover are completely

991
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: unaware of things happening on you know, Florida news sites

992
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: for the De Santensis boarding. People who are are watching Fox,

993
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: they had no interest in reading what the New York

994
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: Times is saying, unless it's like, oh, the Times are

995
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: finally covering something we care about. That's as much price

996
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: as they'll give it. I mean, certainly there are things

997
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: that the left doesn't cover, but I'm not or that

998
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: it's quite the same, if that makes sense. I mean,

999
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I just think like the

1000
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: right is in this world where they don't They still

1001
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: don't believe the twenty twenty election was for real. That

1002
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: has been changing a little bit only because they're Republicans

1003
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,720
Speaker 1: who want to be the presidential nominee. Is there interesting

1004
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: like the actually down Trumpleblue Ning lost. But apart from that, yes,

1005
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 1: that is something that we've not advanced very much on

1006
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: these media networks. When you saw this and discuss this,

1007
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: the Fox needs intertal communications. Like it's pretty clear if

1008
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: you are not just kind of reading the public facing

1009
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: part of what Box is telling you, it is pretty

1010
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: clear that to capture this audience and to keep this audience,

1011
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: you need to have certain opinions that may or may

1012
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: not be accurate. And look, I think there are some

1013
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: conserva critiques of the establishment media that like, like I said,

1014
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: mainstream pickure Pitt, you're active, and there's some of that's right.

1015
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: There's there's obviously stuff that the press doesn't cover as much.

1016
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, look at this kind of the protest of

1017
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: by Glad of New y Times. There's a lot of

1018
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: anger that they're covering transitioner. So like some of that pattens,

1019
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: but not through this scale where it's it's basically right

1020
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election, Yeah, we're going to either not

1021
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: correct things that are false or not cover things that

1022
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: are unsettling to us because our audience is going to

1023
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: turn the channel. I mean, that really did happen to

1024
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: Fox in twenty at the end of twenty twenty, where

1025
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: people were switching over to Newsmax because Newsmax was saying

1026
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: Trump could still win this and Fox wasn't. And I

1027
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 1: mean I just meant to the epic time on it.

1028
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 1: The first time I really kind of realized what their

1029
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 1: angle was was if you click on the Epic Times

1030
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: website up until January sixth, there is a big map

1031
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: every day. The first image was a big map that

1032
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: had the contested quote unquote states and it was pretending

1033
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: January fifth, twenty twenty one that, for example, like New

1034
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: Mexico was up for grabs. That was not true, right,

1035
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 1: New Mexico. Yes, if you want to believe it was true,

1036
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: you click that. Yeah, right, all right, no, no, for sure.

1037
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean that is what is so important, incredibly just

1038
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: unbelievable about all of this. So I want to ask

1039
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: you as a Nembo baby myself, and I'm not a

1040
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,720
Speaker 1: baby anymore, so I'm like a Nippo oldie. I'm always

1041
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: sort of very impressed by how much the Trump kids

1042
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: have squandered their status? Are they there? Have they sort

1043
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: of just seated that? So Don Jinger is here Don

1044
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: Jingior in the seapack and has a couple books that

1045
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: are set up by the Make America Great ag impact.

1046
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: The Trump superPAC one is modeled took the White House.

1047
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 1: One is also modeled with kind of like the White House, sorry,

1048
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: the Oval Office. One's more like the like I didn't

1049
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: run the White House. That is not an issue for

1050
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: people here like the Trump family remains incredibly popular mom

1051
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: by fans. I have not seen much pushback to that idea.

1052
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: The idea the possibility of a Trump restoration and very

1053
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: exciting the people, and basically don't mind hearing from Eric

1054
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: or I haven't seen Eric here yet, but I've seen Don.

1055
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: Besides being smaller and slightly less lavish, how else is

1056
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: this different than other sepacks? Like I heard match SLAPPs say,

1057
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: would they sort of dismiss the idea that less electeds

1058
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: were there? Yeah? He leaned into that in the very beginning.

1059
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: The conference kicks off this morning. The main sessions kick

1060
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: off on the morning of Birthday, and he says, the

1061
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: media is really focused on who's not here, but we

1062
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: have him Jordan with us. He is not. I trying

1063
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: to find him to talk him because he kind of

1064
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: he didn't connect on Tuesday and he's told me today

1065
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to fuck. That's a question I have

1066
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: for him, is, Look, is there a reason round the santificate?

1067
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: Is there a reason that Fox Nation pulled out? Is

1068
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: the reason that jo Fawley, who has come here before,

1069
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: he gotten good reception, didn't come I think part of

1070
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: that is due to I don't think that had a

1071
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: huge role, Ticket says. I mean, there are not many people.

1072
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: I can't speak for the and Argy Maras, there are

1073
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: not many people Conservatives who would be interested in seeing

1074
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: it Don Frump speech. But let's give it if it

1075
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: just Jock Holly will not be there two days earlier,

1076
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: like like Trump being at this event is the draw.

1077
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: But there are Republicans senators who have been given a

1078
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: good reception here. The crowd's very supportive. Members of Congress

1079
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: who are not back, and there are leaders. One thing

1080
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm kind of quivaling with a lot of articles. There's

1081
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: reporting on how Mitch McConnell did not Tom Mittercondd was

1082
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: not comb to this, whichcon hasn't been in ely nine years. Right,

1083
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: it was odd that he was. It was kind of

1084
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: he was trying to promote sendicandis and Kevin McCarthy has

1085
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: skipped for places and miss Crew hates Mitch McConnell. Right.

1086
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: So that's that's what I'm getting too, is that there

1087
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 1: are Republicans who are in the leadership. If they show

1088
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: up in this conference, they will be bood the story

1089
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: from the conference. They could deliver the greatest orations since

1090
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: ancient Greece, and the story will be Kevin McCarthy booth.

1091
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: They know that, and so they're not showing up for

1092
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: that reason. There's nothing Seefa I can really do about that.

1093
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: Mc McCarthy. I think we get some booze and then

1094
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: get the crowd back on his side by talking about investigations. Well,

1095
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: why bother, why bother, creween, you can do something else.

1096
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: You also right, he already has it already. Yeah, and

1097
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: you have some competition for for candis for him. Who

1098
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: are going to plub for instead? But it makes sense

1099
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: that they are. I mean there's a get someone I

1100
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: was talking to here who often sets up happy hours

1101
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: around tea packer used to you after the intervents are over,

1102
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: running out a room, having a cigar party, that sort

1103
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: of thing. We say, just like, it's harder to do

1104
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: that now because people who would fun that sort of thing,

1105
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: DC lobbyists, et cetera. They just don't think anyone here

1106
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: is going to be gettable or useful to that. They

1107
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: think it's it is older people who loved on Trump,

1108
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 1: which is true. I mean you see people wearing They're

1109
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: like I'm in the front row of Trump rally teacher,

1110
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,439
Speaker 1: the front row Joe. You see people who have who

1111
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: are fear for Trump, and then you see younger people

1112
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: who are kind of finding their way in a movement.

1113
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: But a lot of the kind of DC conservative ink people,

1114
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: it's just not worth the trom to coome anymore. So

1115
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: it's not worth it for what meetings is sketting The

1116
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: park you're going to have here at the city doesn't

1117
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: need to be there for I think there are bunch

1118
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: ofies the wind into that, but the overall right in

1119
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: that seapack, even apart from this slap scandal which broken

1120
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: January is, once got elected, this became a Trump conference

1121
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: built around his popularity, built around the Schlaps connection to him,

1122
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: built around the media network they're trying to create, and

1123
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: it became more about I'd say that like kind of

1124
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: the second circle, or not just a Trump family, but

1125
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 1: the second circle of close supporters and less about the

1126
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,399
Speaker 1: whole conservative So you can come here seven years ago

1127
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: less than that, and the Libertarian Party would be here,

1128
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: are the Constitution Party will be here or people who

1129
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: they know who know they're not going to get a

1130
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: good recepting the apeist liberty who I think it might

1131
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: be back, but I haven't seen them yet. Like that's

1132
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: just not a priority for them anymore because they think

1133
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: this is a conference or Trump people. One thing I

1134
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: can say, there's been half empty today. That's not unusual.

1135
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: It's emptier, that's not unusual. Yeah, it's it's emptier than

1136
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: it used to be. But but you know it fills

1137
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: up for Trump. One of the keyback stories I was

1138
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: happiest with is like I shadowed Nagural Farage when he

1139
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: came in twenty fifteen. He was not a big household

1140
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: day yet it sentity is now there's true Brexit, etcetera.

1141
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: And he spoke to a mostly empty room. I think

1142
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 1: it was like ten percentful if that so, everyone who

1143
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: was who was writing about him from the UK to

1144
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: said Karage speaks to have imperious kind, mostly empero. It was.

1145
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: That's the reason too, But it just it used to

1146
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: be more of a the pornucopia of the conservative movement.

1147
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: Here is every everyone who wants to have a role

1148
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: in cons heard a movement here, everyone who might run

1149
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: from breadleton And it's not that anymore. I think it

1150
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: could be that again. I think the biggest threat to

1151
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: that if there is one um and this is important

1152
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: gathering to have is actually turning point. USA Charlie Kirsch

1153
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: organization which broke out here in a big way. It

1154
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: spent a lot of money, had big boots when it

1155
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: was getting started. I remember meeting those folks in two

1156
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: under Cafeine when they held this Antiper and Sanders as well.

1157
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: They really were relevant here until this year and they

1158
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: pulled out. But they've been doing their own conferences that

1159
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: have not just suddenly the same guests, but a larger

1160
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: audience of mostly young people. They'll get people like lap

1161
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: or not really close to close to Trump per se.

1162
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: They are not afraid of offending some people that might

1163
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: be offended if the match left the on stage. And

1164
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: they are trying to compete. It's kind of like a

1165
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: Microsoft versus Zero Sting. And I think they've got the

1166
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: Sea pack model. They're gonna they're gonna they're going to

1167
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: improve on it. So lots of competition. I wouldn't say

1168
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: few people showing up a tea pack means the movement

1169
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: is weaker in any way. This the way this has

1170
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: been designed and built inside the Republican Party, which at

1171
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: the moment is very bound to Trump and for that

1172
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: reason and not winning as much as at once. Um,

1173
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: that is the way of life here, now, that is

1174
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: the way of seatpack. It's still very interesting to see

1175
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: who does show up and who and who ends up

1176
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: who ends up finding an art here? Yeah, I just

1177
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: want to ask you though, really the only member of

1178
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,919
Speaker 1: Congress right is at least a fauna the leadership Yes,

1179
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: sorry sorry, if you want to leap, yes, I can say, like, yeah,

1180
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: at least to find is the only member of the

1181
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: leadership team who's here. They are kind of some rising

1182
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: stars in the party and committee mean Jordan as a

1183
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: committee chair. He was introduced as the most powerful man

1184
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 1: in the Congress, which he probably is in some ways. Yes, yes,

1185
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: but for Republican leaders I think for that reason, I

1186
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: was saying, if Steve Stilly shows up here, he'd probably

1187
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: get a great reception, but he might get confronted by

1188
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: somebody who's angry if they haven't introduced articles to impeachment

1189
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: against biding At or something. Marjorie Tellergreen will be here,

1190
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: He'll get a great reception. There's still some Republicans where

1191
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: they have the chance to not be on the same

1192
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: state before they'll take him thank you so much, Dave

1193
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: John Fast, Jesse Cannon. This Leonard Leo Fellow, a fellow

1194
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: so not nice they named him twice. He's really been

1195
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: up to some bad stuff. His personal wealth appears to

1196
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: have accelerated, has seems to have ballooned as his fundraising

1197
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: prowess accelerated since his efforts to cement the Supreme Court's

1198
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: conservative majority. Already Basically, this is not a good guy.

1199
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: He's got the largest hall of dark money probably of

1200
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,959
Speaker 1: all time that we know about at least. Yeah, this

1201
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:15,439
Speaker 1: is peak trumps m right by the Supreme Court. Yeah,

1202
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: do dark money, you know, the whole thing. We should

1203
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: be surprised that we are surprised. It really is. I

1204
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: feel like in recent weeks we see a new floodgate

1205
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: of like, oh wow, like the later effects of Trumpism

1206
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: and just the egregiousness. I've really really really ramped up

1207
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: when you see stuff like this. Yeah, And I mean

1208
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: I think also like every time you see this Supreme

1209
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: Court make an incredibly horrible decision like overturning Row and

1210
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: making sure that's you know, messing with student loans and

1211
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: the EPA and the many many ways in which this

1212
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: conservative Supreme Court is shaping our country. You know, we

1213
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: have these people who are not elected, who are the

1214
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: most powerful people in America, all thanks to Citizens United,

1215
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: all thanks to Citizens United. So from that they are

1216
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode of

1217
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to

1218
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: your the best minds in politics makes sense of all

1219
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send

1220
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again,

1221
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: thanks for listening.