1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: Land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: making of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: host Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm talking about the 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: series fabulous Fashion with Emmy winning costume designer Lynn Paulo. 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: She had the unique challenge of designing all of the 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: studying outfits we see in the show, including painstaking recreations 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: of Anna's now infamous trial style looks. In our chat, 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: Lynne explains why it's often more difficult to design costumes 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: for series said in modern times, and what is most 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: thrilling to her about evolving characters through their fashion. Hi. Lynn, 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: welcome and we're so happy to have you here. Congratulations 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: on your incredible work in Inventing Anna. How does it 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: feel to see it come to fruition. I have to say, 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: it's been such a pleasure to see the reaction of 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: the audience, and I'm just really excited that the show 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: is finally out, So thank you. Stacy. You are welcome, 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: and it's been fun to see people posting and asking 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: questions and fashion has figured very largely into a lot 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: of these conversations, and I would love to know from 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: your perspective what was uniquely challenging about designing costumes for 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: inventing Anna. Tell me what that process was like as 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: it compares to the other Shonda Land series you've worked on, 25 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: such as Scandal and How to Get Away with Murder. 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: It was such an interesting process because we were trying 27 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: to match exactly what Anna had worn in her Instagram 28 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: and in the courtroom. Because she was, you know, followed 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: by so many fashionistas on Insta, we have to take 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: a big, deep dive into that research. So it was 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: a heavily research show. From that point of view, all 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: the other characters all thought that they knew a different 33 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: Anna than the Anna the next the person next door 34 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: new and so that was also a lot of fun 35 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: because then we got to play with the Anna's you know, 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: there was the business owner and there was the you know, 37 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: the party Anna. I love that and yes, that has 38 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: been a real highlight. And watching an a shape shift 39 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: and with those shape shifting moments, we see her dressing 40 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: for all these different personalities. And I'll get back to 41 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: that in a moment, but I did want to ask 42 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: something I've spoken about with other costume designers, the sort 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: of misconceptions of dressing contemporary characters. You know, we have 44 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: the sense of, oh, it has to be a lavish 45 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: costume drama for us to notice costumes, and in a 46 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: lot of ways, sometimes dressing contemporary characters can be more challenging. 47 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: Tell me how you feel about that. You know, I 48 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: think you're so right, Stacey, And and thank you for 49 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: understanding that. Because dressing a period drama, which I'm doing 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: right now again, you do your research and everyone's always 51 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: sort of awed by the historical references and the fact 52 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: that you got it right and it looks so pretty. 53 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: But I feel that dramas that take place within our 54 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: timeline are actually harder to complete and to design because 55 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: there's much more nuance to it and everyone knows they're 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: going to expect, whereas on a period piece you can say, oh, 57 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: you know, no, this was right, when you know maybe 58 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: it was or wasn't. But when it comes to developing 59 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: a character in a modern show, the amount of research, 60 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: the amount of nuance, the amount of time that you 61 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: take to access to rize, I find it to be 62 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: harder than doing a period show making something look old 63 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: or worn in, or yeah, this character doesn't have a 64 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: lot of money, or this character has worn this, you know, 65 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: for fifteen twenty years. So, for instance, with Vivian, a 66 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: lot of her clothes in the show were aged down 67 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: to have that lived in feel because it tells the story. 68 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: It tells you right away this lady is wearing lovely clothes, 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: but they're not new right. And I have to say, 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: as someone who has been a journalist in New York, 71 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: I really appreciated Vivian's worn out boots that she takes 72 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: off at Riker's because you really sense that she has 73 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: walked the streets asking people questions, done her reporting in 74 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: those shoes, and it looked very realistic. Yeah, I wanted 75 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: it to feel like she was that all Friday. I 76 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: felt like that was a really important story point for Vivian. 77 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: And in speaking about the series, a word that you 78 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: have used to describe your work as curation, which I like. 79 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: It's not just so much you're designing your curating looks. 80 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,839 Speaker 1: Tell me what your process was from starting on day one. 81 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: So you know, every show is slightly different. But I 82 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: really do love a mood board. And I also like 83 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: to create a color palette for each character. I'm a 84 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: visual learner. I have a really hard time if I 85 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: don't have a picture in front of me. I need 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: to see it. Every single show I'm on, I'm completely 87 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: surrounded by mood boards all over the walls and also fabrics, watches, 88 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: because even though Inventing Anna was not a bill show, 89 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: we didn't create the costumes. We purchased the costumes. I 90 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: do like to look at fabrics and look at them 91 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: in the different in different light, in different sets, so 92 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: that we can get a sense of you know, what's 93 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: going to work in this room. And tell me how 94 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: you work with Shonda in these moments. You've obviously worked 95 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: with on numerous projects. What is her input and how 96 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: does that help you do your job? After I think 97 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: it's twelve years now we've been working together. We have 98 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: a shorthand. Seanda does love to look at the images 99 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: from the show and always gets right back to me, 100 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: which I know how busy she is, so I truly 101 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: appreciate that. I think she understands our timelines and how 102 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: difficult it is to turn around a show like Annadelphi 103 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: with the volume of clothing we were dealing with. She'll 104 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: write back, you know, gorgeous or exactly right, or she'll 105 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: put it into the script and she'll write in it's 106 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: whatever Lynn says for this scene, which is a real 107 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: blessing as a costume designer to have the support of 108 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: your writer, producer and um, you know, she'll say she 109 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: doesn't like something, or I've gone off track with a character. 110 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: But we sort of meshed so well. I don't know 111 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: what it is, but we both sort of finish each 112 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: other's sentences when it comes to the costume design on 113 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: a show. So it's a nice symbiotic relationship. It's very 114 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: nice to have that shared sensibility. Yeah, I think so 115 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: when I referenced something, I know that she's, you know, 116 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: looked at that Runway show or looked at that designer. 117 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, and she really does. I mean, Shonda understands fashion. 118 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: And before we talk about some of the more beautiful 119 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: looks in the show, I want to talk about the 120 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: prison scenes. Bring me some underwear. Nothing cheaper than Atari, 121 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: but Adolphs the pantis aren't disgusting, and I know that 122 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: you wanted to create the sense of even in prison, 123 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: Anna still wants to look good, right, she still has 124 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: her glasses and her uniform looks to be pressed. So 125 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: tell me how you balance this idea of you know, 126 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: even in prison, Anna wants to be fashionable but also 127 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: being realistic as well. Yes, so we we end up 128 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: having to make a lot of the uniforms because we 129 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: couldn't find them, so they were rebuilt. And what we 130 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: did with the other inmates is we sent their cover alls, scrubs, 131 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call them. We had them sandwashed, 132 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: and then we aged into them just so they felt 133 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: a little limb, you know, a little older and a 134 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: little more worn in. And then for Anna, we pressed 135 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: her cover rolls every day before she worked and after 136 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: lunch too, which Julia really appreciated by the way she 137 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: was very crisp walking into the scenes. It was almost 138 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: a little too flat in a way, like we pressed 139 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: them too much. And again that's another detail that you know, 140 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: when we're watching the show there's a scene in a prison, 141 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: never once does the viewer think, oh, they've had to 142 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: spend hours distressing some of these clothing and pressing that uniform. 143 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: But I do think it's those sort of visual cues, 144 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: aren't they They're so subliminal the audience understand something, but 145 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: they don't know why they understand it, which I think 146 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: is part of creating our worlds. No, I agree, and 147 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: it really comes through in this series. And I would 148 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: love for you to walk me through some of the 149 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: creations that were particularly challenging, either to recreate or maybe 150 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: you bought something and you a lared it to Julia. 151 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: Which piece do you look back on throughout the series 152 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: and think, oh, that was a real labor and the 153 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: just ended up being a piece of art they're so 154 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: proud of, you know. There were several pieces in terms 155 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: of matching Anna's real life looks um the Ali Address, 156 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: which the real Anna war an awful lot. We ended 157 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: up finding three of that dress because we were so 158 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: concerned that one it wouldn't arrive to it wasn't going 159 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: to be the right dress when it was right, because 160 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: of course we were dealing with vendors and people that 161 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: we found on Instagram literally and also use clothing stores. 162 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: All of that. We kept all three and used all 163 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: three eventually, but they were all too large and had 164 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: to be cut down, and that was really a math problem. 165 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: I have to say, to keep the integrity of that dress, 166 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: but cut it down for Julia. The other thing that 167 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: we didn't ever find was the black rick Oh and 168 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: his leather jacket that the real Anna war in so 169 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: many of Instagram posts, so we ended up copying it 170 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: and creating it ourselves. Is it often more difficult to 171 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: find a garment that's three or four years old as 172 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: opposed to something that's twenty five or thirty years old. Yes, 173 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: I do think it's more difficult. But the bigger issue 174 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: for us in this particular instance is that Anna was 175 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: very specific, the real Anna. She tagged everything with who 176 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: the designer was, and out of respect to the designers, 177 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: we wanted to get it right. So in this particular instance, 178 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: it was a tiny bit more tricky because we knew 179 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: what it should be, and we could have gotten away 180 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: with any little black dress, probably, but we wanted to 181 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: be true to the designers. Absolutely. Okay, we're gonna take 182 00:09:47,040 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: a short break, but please stay tuned. Yea, hey, everybody 183 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: is Stacy here again. Now back to the interview. I 184 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: do want to talk about a couple of the other 185 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: characters you've mentioned, Vivian. I'd like to talk a little 186 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: bit more about how Anna impacts her style because we 187 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: see her, you know, after she has the baby, she's 188 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: sort of a little bit more glam she's brushing her hair, 189 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: she's a little bit more polished. Tell me about your 190 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: thought going into how you depict her evolution. Yeah, that's 191 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: a lovely question actually, because there were so many people 192 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: in the story who did evolved because of Anna, but 193 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: specifically Vivian, we felt like, all of a sudden, she 194 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: started to care about fashion more and also care about 195 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: how she looked when she met with Anna and how 196 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: she presented herself when she went to Germany, and she 197 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: became a Vini fashionista. I mean early on in the show, 198 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: obviously she's pregnant. In the story, everything was oversized. None 199 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: of it was pregnancy clothes. It was all sort of 200 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: like Vince, you know, Rag and Bone, those brands, and 201 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: we mixed up a lot of textures. And then as 202 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: time went on and she became Anna influenced, we started 203 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: removing the mixed textures and everything was a little bit 204 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: more muted. Her hair was smoother, she seemed a little 205 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: bit more put together. What is different my hair? You 206 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: like it? I like it, I view like it, Jack, 207 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,239 Speaker 1: But we did that with several characters. I think it's 208 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: It's actually more telling with Anthony Edwards character that he 209 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: goes from being the man in the gray suit too, 210 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: wearing flashy or mess ties and pink shirts and lilac 211 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: shirts as opposed to just a white or gray shirt 212 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: in the beginning. New glasses done progressives that frames her 213 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: a little young. You let a hipster help you choose 214 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: your glasses. They look good at you. I think everybody 215 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: that was around Anna in real life and possibly around 216 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: our Anna, they were influenced by her. She was able 217 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: to sort of hypnotize people and actually I think bring 218 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: joy to people's lives. They followed her and believed her 219 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: and became wrapped up in her world of glamour. M 220 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: I agree. And then I wanted to talk a little 221 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: bit about Rachel and her journey, and Shanda described Rachel 222 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: as Anna as mini me, which I thought was funny. 223 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: But you do see her kind of morphing into a sidekick. 224 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: Tell me about her work style, but then also what 225 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: is the style that she has when she's with Anna? Yeah? 226 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: I think we you know, we meet her and it's 227 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: appray Anna, isn't it. And there's that great scene with 228 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: Alexis with Katie Lowe's where she goes. Anna did not 229 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: ever pay my way. Anna paid for those shoes and 230 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: that Jackie. I was there when she bought those ear 231 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: rings the sweater, and I know that there actually said 232 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: what everything you have on? So like she she is 233 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: an Anna mini me and we do similar thing we 234 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: did with Vivian in that regard because she want her 235 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: to feel like a young intern at Vanity Fair, not 236 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: making a lot, that she did her best, you know, 237 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: to look cool to go to work. But then once 238 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: she's with Anna, all of a sudden everything becomes elevated. 239 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: And then we see her in Morocco and you know 240 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: she's in all the boho dresses and the calf tans 241 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: and living large on Anna basically, so that theme runs 242 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: through the whole show. I mean, you see Anna buying 243 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: clothes for Neff. You know she knocks on the window. 244 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if this was based on the 245 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: real Anna, but are Anna was exceptionally generous and did 246 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: a lot for her friends and then until she's stole 247 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: from them. So right, And I'd love to actually go 248 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: back to episode two, which has a lot of wonderful 249 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: sound bites about fashion. Anna's friend Val had a great 250 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: sound bite where he said Anna belonged, Anna was society, 251 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: and then Anna tells Talia during that Cindy Sherman photo exhibit, 252 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: this is not dress up, this is bravery. This is 253 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: a moment in art. You must be one of Damien's gallerinus. 254 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: Do you think I work here? So I'd love for 255 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: you to reflect on how Anna saw herself not only 256 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: as a fashionista but also as an artist and how 257 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: you built that into your work. Those are some of 258 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: my favorite scenes, actually, the scene with Talia at that 259 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: art gallery, and then the scene with Anthony Edwards when 260 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: they're walking through you know the museum. I think it's 261 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: the Museum of Modern Art. And we did this sort 262 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: of postural echo thing with Anna's clothes in each of 263 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: those that it felt similar to the area she was in. 264 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: In terms of the scene with Anthony, she was wearing 265 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: this Dultch and Gabana suit that had sort of a 266 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: Rococo painting silk screened on to the garment, on the 267 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: sleeves and on the skirt and on the shoes. So 268 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: she's in this really modern building with amazing modern art 269 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: and she's standing there wearing a Rococo painting and the 270 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: same with Talia is with the scenes with Talia. It 271 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: was important to us that both Talia and Anna being 272 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: very structural garments in that moment, very architectural in the 273 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: same way that in you know, the black and white photo, 274 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: which is such a famous photo, there's that sort of 275 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: triangle head scarfed, do you know. So we were echoing 276 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: off that and you really start to understand more about 277 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: how Anna saw herself. I mean the fact that she 278 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: considers herself a peer of Cindy Sherman. I know, he's 279 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: quite audacious. When we read it, we were all like, what, 280 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: But you know, that's the brilliance of Shonda. Do you 281 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: know that she would juxtapose this very young woman and 282 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: then Cindy Sherman, and we'd have these intense conversations about 283 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: art in the middle of a really a story about 284 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: someone's dealing money. And outside of the character of Anna, 285 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: who was your favorite character to dress and why? Who 286 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: was sort of someone who was surprisingly fun to create 287 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: a look for it. I love Nef, you know, I 288 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: liked all the characters on the show because they were 289 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: also different from each other. And I should say I 290 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: love Nef because I love the bright colors. I love that. 291 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: You know, she lived in Brooklyn, and she was a 292 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: little more street and really fun, and she wasn't pretending 293 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: to be anybody. She was just who she was. But 294 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: then I also loved the scribe Arians really all their 295 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: different textures and you know, getting to fit a dress 296 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: Anna Davia again, it was such a joy. And of course, 297 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: Jeff I don't know, something about their quirkiness appealed to 298 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: me and I really I really loved their fittings. And 299 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: I appreciated Terry Kenny's character, how he was kind of 300 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: holding on to these last vestiges of coolness with his 301 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: concert t shirts and his cool hats. And Terry was 302 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: a it because you know, all of those sort of 303 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: floral I was a rock star once upon a time. 304 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: Most we kept saying, we're gonna dress you like mid 305 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: eighties rock star, still dressing the same way, and you 306 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: know what a trooper he went for it. Okay, please 307 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: stand by for these quick messages from our sponsors. Okay, 308 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: are you still there? Awesome, Let's get right back into it. 309 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: Walk me through how you planned the trial style sequences, 310 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: the finale, and all the chaos that ensued in the 311 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: courtroom with Anna's costume delays, well, I'll call him. This 312 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: is so fucked. We've got thirty minutes before this judge. 313 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: Loser are fucking ship on me. Better get shopping, want 314 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: me to pick up the course. I'll figure it out. 315 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: I gotta shift. Tell me about creating what really was 316 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: not only huge moment in legal history, but this huge 317 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: fashion moment, and how the two intersected in this finale. 318 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: Literally between Instagram and what Shanda wrote on the page, 319 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: it was all there. So for us, it was more 320 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: what is the nuance of the scene. What is Anna 321 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: feeling in this moment? Should we use, you know, the 322 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: Zara blouse or do we use the helmet lane jacket 323 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: that she had her supposed stylists got to get for her. 324 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: We gathered together all the pieces that she actually wore, 325 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: and then totally went through each scene. Was she said, 326 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: was she confrontational? Was she and then dressed according to 327 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: sort of the essence of how Anna was in that 328 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: particular scene. It's interesting when I rewatched the final episode, 329 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: I was struck by how youthful and I was choosing 330 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: to look in the courtroom. She didn't go for more 331 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: of a tailored suit look she's more going for this 332 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: almost like teenager baby doll dress. How do you feel 333 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: that she was hoping to represent herself for the jury, 334 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: because it's an odd choice for someone who had tried 335 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: to pass herself off as a sophisticated, elegant woman. Yeah. 336 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: I think I was sort of underwhelmed by Anna's fashion personally, um, 337 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: and I mean that with no disrespect, but particularly in 338 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: the trial sequences. The little black ribbon around her neck, 339 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: which was a favorite thing of hers, the baby doll dresses, 340 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: which sort of hawking back to her early days, you know. 341 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: And there's a character act she says, when I first 342 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: met her, she wore baby doll dresses. We couldn't take 343 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: her seriously to give her a loan. And then all 344 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: of a sudden, she's wearing you know, really high and suiting. 345 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: So it's that it's almost like she was regressing in 346 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: that moment, And I think we tried to bookend that 347 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: by highlighting the baby doll dresses, the earlier reference of 348 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: the very young Anna who's just starting out, and then 349 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: ending on that was sort of our way of book 350 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: ending the character. I do think too, the there might 351 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: have been some artifice in it for the real Anna 352 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: just to look as sweet as possible. You don't want 353 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: to dress up and be too you know, glossy in 354 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: a courtroom like that. You want to be sort of 355 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: every woman. I imagine she put a lot of thought 356 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: into what she was wearing. That seems to be her thing. Yes, yes, 357 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: she puts a lot of thought into everything. I think 358 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: I would love for you to weigh on something that 359 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: I find fascinating from earlier in this series, when Val 360 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: is speaking to Vivian about Anna, and he was talking 361 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: about how her taste was impeccable, but he distinguished his 362 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: taste from fashion. Anna was understanding elegant, a liar Balenciaga. 363 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: Do you or she knew all the way things to 364 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: say and do? How do you feel about that? And 365 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,239 Speaker 1: how do you feel anna perceived taste versus fashion? I 366 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: think Anna contrived everything, and everything was about manipulation, so 367 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: that in the moments where she was really caughting Vale, 368 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: although Val didn't think she was, because she wanted to 369 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: be in that fashion world. She I mentioned it to Shonda, 370 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: is that she became the Hitchcock blonde, you know, the 371 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: ice queen blonde with all these icy colors and off 372 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: the shoulder dresses in you know, baby sort of icy 373 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: pinks and icy blues, because she was unattainable. That was 374 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: the approach we had with the scenes with Val, that 375 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: this woman is elegant and classy and doesn't follow fashion. 376 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: I think he says that, like, she didn't just wear 377 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: what everybody else wore. She had an innate style of 378 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: her own, because I think Val has an innate style 379 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: of his own, and he always looks so sort of 380 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: carry grant, elegant, and so I think, you know, she 381 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: saw that, and she wanted that, and I think everything 382 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: she wore had a purpose. And I personally think that 383 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: you shouldn't follow fashion, that you should know what works 384 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: well on your body, what looks good on you, and 385 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: then you take the pieces of fashion that you love 386 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: that are also part of what will look good on you, 387 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: and that's how you should dress. Um. But I think 388 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: Anna was a different sort of chameleon. I think she 389 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: she looked as at fashion, and she looked at clothing, 390 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: and she looked at design, and she looked at art, 391 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: and they were all tools she could use to get 392 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: to an end. And that's interesting you talk about that 393 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: sort of kim Novak peroxide blonde, Tippy Hedren unattainable blonde 394 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: look that she was going for. But then she chooses 395 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: to soften it and she darkens her hair to more 396 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: of a red because she realized that that unapproachable iciness 397 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: wasn't really servicing her. And you know that was again Shanda, 398 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: there was just specific beats and as you can imagine filming, 399 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, for ten months, I think it was tracking 400 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: that for the poor head bomb and you know, and 401 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: then for us, it changed everything about what Julia could wear. 402 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: It changed the color palette. You know, when you're an 403 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: ice blonde, there are certain colors that are gonna work well, 404 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: and then when you're a redhead, it changes. So as 405 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: I keep saying, like there was so many not even 406 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: just about all the hair. Anna was a chameleon and 407 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: she used every tool she could, and she had to 408 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: become whatever was acceptable or whomever was acceptable in a 409 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,239 Speaker 1: given situation. So she could go from the Boho art 410 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: world to shopping at Bergdorf's and fit in in all 411 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: those places absolutely. And my final question for you is 412 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: thinking about how you felt about Anna and the character 413 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: of Anna when you started the project and now thinking 414 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: about her. After the series has been revealed to the 415 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: world and you've had more time to think about her, 416 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: How have your feelings changed about this person, both the 417 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: real life person and the person we see depicted in 418 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: the series. You know, Stacy, I have to tell you, 419 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: I'm still very confused. I think a lot of us are. 420 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: By the way, Yeah, we talked about her a lot 421 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: still at work, Laura Freakon and I and literally I 422 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: was talking to another actress today who had just seen 423 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: the show and said, oh my god, I watched the show. 424 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: It was amazing. I loved it. And she said to me, 425 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: what do you think of Anna? And I go, I'm 426 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: just so intrigued. I still kind of fathom how she 427 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: did what she did. I'm also very conflicted. As a woman. 428 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I feel like, well, you know, yeah, she's still and 429 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: that is wrong. But was it so bad? Did that 430 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: happen to because she was a woman? I mean I 431 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: am a mess a at Anna Delbe and there were 432 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: a lot of us who would just had a really 433 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: hard time trying to figure her out. And we still haven't. 434 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: And I think that's what's so interesting about the show, 435 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: because you don't really know in the end I don't 436 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: think anybody knows. I'm like she even sure if the 437 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: real Anna knows well. And on that note to really 438 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: truly incredible work, and you're such an amazingly talented artist. 439 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: But the clothing really was a highlight of the series. 440 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: So I just want to say thank you so much 441 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: for putting so many hours of your craft and expertise 442 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,719 Speaker 1: into this. Thank you, Stacy. It was a joy. And 443 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: I have to share that to my crew and to 444 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: Laura Freathon, who co designed it was me that it 445 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: was I mean, look, there was a gift from Shanda. 446 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: I'm always grateful when Seana picks up the phone and 447 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: calls me, thank you so much for listening. That's it 448 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: for today. Next week, I'll chat with Katie Lows, who 449 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: plays Rachel Williams, Anna's friend of me who famously lost 450 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: sixty dollars in Morocco when she naively offered to foot 451 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: the bill for their lavish vacation. Katie is not only 452 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: a Shonda Lane staple, she's also a podcast host herself 453 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: and an absolute gem. What is the takeaway of this story? 454 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: Don't trust people, No, I'm getting Oh, don't be so jaded, Katie, 455 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: You cannot trust anybody. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, 456 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: share with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. 457 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: All of that good stuff. And if you haven't finished 458 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: Shonda Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. 459 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: We really don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing 460 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, 461 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and 462 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show is produced and 463 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing Anna the Official 464 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: Podcast is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership 465 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, 466 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 467 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.