1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: And so I'm like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: gonna at least be honest. I don't want anyone to 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: ever be surprised that because I preached a message that 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: I experienced depression, that I worked at a strip club, 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: Like I want you to know, like this is what 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: you're getting. It is not much, but I am gonna 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: give my best. I'm gonna share my best, and if 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: I make you feel less alone, then girl, we could 9 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: grab arms and move towards better together. But I just didn't. 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: I just didn't wanna. I didn't want to live on 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: a pedestal. I wanted to be able to Sometimes on 12 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: my social media, I will be like all glammed up, 13 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: dressed up. Other moments I'll literally be snatching my wig 14 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: off and washing my face like this is like, this 15 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: is all of who I am, And I just don't 16 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: want people to be connected to this caricature. I don't 17 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: want to be trapped in my own life. 18 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: That was the incredible Sarah Jakes Roberts, whose radical transparency 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: has inspired a global movement reaching millions of women around 20 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: the world. Now, as a daughter of Bishop TD Jakes, 21 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: she's stepping into a historic new role as a successor 22 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 2: of one of the most influential churches in America. I'm 23 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: Andrea Waters King and this is My Legacy, hosted by me, 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 2: my husband Martin Luther King the Third, and our good 25 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: friends Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger. Today on My Legacy, 26 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 2: Sarah and her mother Serena Jakes pull back the curtain 27 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: on the private battles, public expectations, and the unexpected path 28 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: that prepared her for this moment. If you've ever struggled 29 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: to believe you could rise above your past, this conversation 30 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: is a masterclass in healing, hope and stepping boldly towards Westnext, 31 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: get ready to be inspired. 32 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 3: Welcome to My Legacy. For our new listeners and viewers, 33 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 3: this isn't your typical solo celebrity interview. This is the 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: show where remarkable people pull back the curtain and bring 35 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 3: along the one person who's seen the full story unfold, 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 3: the his the heartbreaks, and everything in between. And today 37 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 3: we're honored to be talking to a woman whose journey 38 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 3: includes teen mom, best selling author, pass and leader of 39 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: a global movement that has inspired millions. Sarah Jakes Roberts 40 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: has built her platform by telling the truth about pain, purpose, 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 3: and what it means to write and rewrite your own story. Sarah, 42 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: We're truly honored to have you here today, and would 43 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 3: you mind introducing to us your plus one, the person 44 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: who knows you best and who has been with you 45 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: on your life journey. 46 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: It is my honor and privilege to have my mother, 47 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: Serita Jakes, joining us today. I could stop it just 48 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: saying how much she means to me as my mother. 49 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: But she is an incredible woman. First, she is courageous 50 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: and brilliant and vulnerable and strong. She's the glue of 51 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: our family and certainly throughout some of my most difficult seasons, 52 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: I would say that she was the oil that got 53 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: me unstuck when I was in some spots that I 54 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: never thought I would get out of. So I'm just 55 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: so honored that I get to share her with the world. 56 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for inviting me, Sarah, and thank you 57 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 4: all for having us. 58 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: Oh, We're so excited for this conversation today. 59 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 3: You know, Sarah, you grew up in one of the 60 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: most extraordinary, influential faith families here in America. Can you 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 3: share with us a recollection or story from your childhood 62 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: and helps us to understand what's it like growing up 63 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: as a Jakes. 64 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: You know, I have this one photo of me. We're 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: at this conference and it was back to the Bible, 66 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: and it's my sister and I sitting on the front row. 67 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: My mother's mother, my Grainy is sitting beside us, and 68 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: we're standing and we're looking at this stage and my 69 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: sister looks so excited and I look like a little confused, 70 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: a little amazed. And I think that that probably encapsulates 71 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: what it meant to be part of such a large family. 72 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: That there were these moments of pure just awe and 73 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: amazement and just wonder at what was taking place, and 74 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: then there were some moments of confusion where I wondered, 75 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: how do I fit into that? Do I fit into that? 76 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: And I think balancing that tension of confus usion and 77 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: amazement is ultimately what allowed me to discover my own identity. 78 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: But it was both brilliant and challenging in many ways. 79 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 5: You know, I know a little something maybe about being 80 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 5: a preacher's kid, but there obviously are additional dynamics when 81 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 5: your parents are larger than life. And so missus Jakes, 82 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 5: how did you help Sarah maybe become and navigate through 83 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 5: those potential challenges that would come. 84 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 4: Well, you know, when I think of a legacy, I 85 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 4: was thinking today, you're looking forward, but you're also looking backwards. 86 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 4: When we got to this huge city, I did not 87 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 4: realize that I was going to have to move to 88 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 4: the forefront and that my children would be left alone 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 4: without me hadging them on either side. And my mother 90 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: died shortly after we got here. So in hindsight, I 91 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 4: would have done what she does. She'd makes certain that 92 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 4: her children or wherever she is. I wish I had 93 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 4: done that more. And so seeing her overcome the lack 94 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 4: of my presence to try to do it differently than 95 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 4: I would have even thought to do it is amazing 96 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 4: to me. 97 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: I will say, though, even though you guys had a 98 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: lot of responsibilities and a lot of things going on, 99 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that my mother did 100 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: is that when she was present, she was completely present. 101 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: You would let us sleep in the bed with you. 102 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: We would always be doing dinner like you'd have us 103 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: running around doing errands with you. Like I never felt 104 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: like a burden to you. No, And I think because 105 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: I never felt like a burden, I always felt like 106 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: I could be seen and heard and valued, and we 107 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: needed those pockets of that in a moment where all 108 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: attentions like maybe on my dad or maybe on the 109 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: both of them, My mom was a space where we 110 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: could take the stage and she would be our audience 111 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: and we could put on whatever raggedy gift or cooking menu, 112 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: our little recipes or auditions and dance and plays like 113 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: she made us feel like stars in the moments that 114 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: she was able to look at us. And so I 115 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: think that you preserved our special even as you were 116 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: balancing all those things. 117 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 2: Oh where's the and that had to be such a 118 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 2: tremendous amount of weight on you to you know, to 119 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: be balancing all of that and to be a mom, 120 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: and so to hear your daughter giving you, I think 121 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 2: those much needed accolades is beautiful. 122 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 4: It's so beautiful because you know how the enemy will 123 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 4: try to rob you with guilt and would it should 124 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 4: have cut us And so I'm so I knew you 125 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 4: felt that way, but to have you articulated today, I'm 126 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 4: a little weepy. 127 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for me, it's very true. I think that 128 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: the only reason why it's not sitting with you at 129 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: church meant so much is because of how big your 130 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: presence was when we were with you. Oh good, So 131 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: I think that you know, us not sitting with you, 132 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: if we didn't have such a deep relationship, may have 133 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,559 Speaker 1: not meant as much. But you were. You're our girl, 134 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: you know. And so it's like me and Ellen, my 135 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: daughter Ella is nine years old, and I'm convinced she 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: wants to get back in my stomach, Like I'm like, girl, 137 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: give me some space. 138 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: Our daughter calls that her first apartment, like sometimes she'll 139 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: put pat my stomach. Okay, that was first of my 140 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: first apartment. 141 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: Oh sure, that's what. The other day, Ella was up 142 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: on my lap and I was like, Ellen, don't you 143 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: think you're a little too big to be on my lap? 144 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: And she's like, you're thirty six and you still still 145 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: sit on your mom's life. I was like, mind's your 146 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: business now? 147 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: And Sarah becoming a mom at fourteen, I'm sure that 148 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: was a lot of judgment, a lot of pressure, expectations, 149 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: especially when you look at it within the faith community. Right, 150 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: soh what do you remember around that in that moment 151 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: and how do you feel it shaped you and your 152 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: legacy moving forward? 153 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: Fourteen is such a young age to become a mother 154 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: that I think to properly contextualize it, you have to 155 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: understand that I was not afraid of being pregnant or 156 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: having a baby. I thought I was going to get 157 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: in trouble. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to 158 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: get grounded or my parents are going to be so upset. 159 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: It wasn't until I saw their response that I began 160 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: to realize that this is much bigger than like you 161 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: got in trouble, Like your life has completely changed. But 162 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: to my mom's credit, one of the things she told me, 163 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: she's like, I didn't get rid of my babies. I 164 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: didn't give them away. Whatever you decide to do, I'm 165 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: going to stick with you every step of the way. 166 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: And she did that, and a man, there were so 167 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: many moments where I've won. I felt like the pregnancy 168 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: just solidified this idea that I don't belong in that family. 169 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: So if you go back to that image of me 170 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: as a little girl being confused and amazed, I think 171 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: in that moment it was solidified, like, oh my goodness, 172 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: you don't belong here, And so it became so easy 173 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: for me to kind of move into the background. But 174 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: I think in moving into the background that it also 175 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: gave me an opportunity to discover my identity outside of 176 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: my family name. It's like I'm already the black Sheep, 177 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 1: I'm already disconnected. Now I get to just kind of 178 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: figure out who I am and what I want to 179 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: do with my life. And though my life had certainly 180 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: had some twists and turns, even since having the pregnancy, 181 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: I found a real sense of being okay with myself 182 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: without the validation of other people because I'd lost it 183 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: in many ways. And the moment that I began to 184 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: really say, you know what, this is my story. I'm 185 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: want to love it, I'm gonna embrace it, and I'm 186 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: going to wake up each day and really do the 187 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: best that I can. I began to see my life 188 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: change for myself, and then the overflow of that kind 189 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: of changed into this touch point for other women who 190 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: could relate to experiences like my own. 191 00:09:54,559 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: And then missus Jakes as her mother. What I'm sure 192 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: that you also had, you know, going through just so 193 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: much emotions and having to do so there's even that 194 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: added layer of going through all of this publicly as well. 195 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: But is there anything that you wish you would have 196 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: shared or said during that time. 197 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 4: I think that my actions spoke louder than my words, 198 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 4: because when I found out that she was pregnant, the 199 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 4: first thing I thought was, we've got to get health care. 200 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 4: We've got to get health and at her age, is 201 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 4: she even able to physically bear a child? So all 202 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 4: of those things went through my mind. I'm a mother 203 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 4: of five, and I know that labor, I'm told is 204 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 4: the closest that a woman comes to death. So I 205 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 4: knew that labor if she was able to even bear 206 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 4: a child. So health care was the first thing I 207 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 4: thought about immediately, immediately and making sure that she was 208 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 4: okay uh. And then I went into protective mode. I 209 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 4: didn't want anybody to say anything. Don't say anything, don't 210 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,599 Speaker 4: write anything. 211 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: Any of us see that we know. 212 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 4: I was not immediately and so just protect her, to 213 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 4: protect her because people can be so cruel, and I didn't. 214 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 4: The church people were supportive for the most part. There 215 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 4: was some old school people that wanted her to get 216 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 4: up and have a long speech and us sit her 217 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 4: down in the corner, and one of our family pastors 218 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 4: came and spoke. He was like, now you want to 219 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 4: talk about her? Keeping or they referencing you want to 220 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 4: talk about her having a baby. 221 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: I remember that sermon, you know. He was basically trying 222 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: to say that when people go through different things, their 223 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: response is different. When someone may have given their child away, 224 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: we take a moment and we grieve with them and 225 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: love on them. Or if someone's gone through some other experience, 226 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: we take the time to really care for them and 227 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: nurture them. But then we have the girl who kept 228 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: her baby, and we're like, no, we don't want to 229 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: see it, don't touch her. It's contageous. And so I 230 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: think it was an opportunity to highlight some of those 231 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: I guess double standards that can exist in faith spaces. Yeah, 232 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: which is why part of what I wanted to do 233 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: in creating safe spaces for women as they begin to like, 234 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I gravitate to your story. It's like 235 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: for us, it didn't matter what you've gone through. If 236 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: you come to anything that I'm hosting, we want you 237 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: to bring all of yourself, your whole story, all your scars, 238 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: into the room and so that you can heal and 239 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: be transformed by love and connection, because at the end 240 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: of the day, it truly doesn't matter what we've gone through. 241 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: What matters the most is who we want to become 242 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: as a result of what we've gone through. 243 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I just want to add, even in 244 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 4: your Women Evolved meetings, it's multi generational. So we have 245 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 4: women that are my age that say that was my story, 246 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 4: that was my story and so and thank you for 247 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 4: allowing me to be able to accept forgiveness and release that. 248 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 4: And so that's And so I'm on the street and 249 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 4: someone's like, oh my god, oh my god. And I'm like, oh, yes, 250 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 4: you know, yes, and they say you're Sarah's mom. 251 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: I'm like, whoa, do you remember the first time that 252 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: that happened. There you got the you're Sarah's mom. 253 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 4: Yes, but you know what, it wasn't a child, it 254 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 4: was an older woman. Interesting, And she said, she's talking 255 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 4: to me too, and I want you to tell her 256 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: thank you. And I thought, wow. 257 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: That has to be the highest praise as a mother. 258 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: I could just see you glowing with just pride. 259 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: I used to say, especially when me and my father 260 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: are going through our reconciliation, like all of the good 261 00:13:54,880 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: things about me came from my mother. But I heared, Amen, 262 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: there's some good things I got from him as well 263 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: amen restoration. But my mother, she saved me at a 264 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: time when I was really I was. I don't know 265 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: how much in my story, you guys are familiar with her, 266 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: how much I can share. But when she said, I'll 267 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: do whatever it takes. I dropped out of college, I 268 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: was waitressing at a strip club i'd given my parents 269 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: bought me a car. I gave the car back because 270 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: I felt like my dad was being too controlling. I 271 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: was like, here's the car. I'll take care of myself. 272 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: And we had some real tension in that moment because 273 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: I just I was difficult to control. And my mother, 274 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: she still made sure that I didn't get too far 275 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: off track. She would check to make sure I was 276 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: home safe after working at the club. She'd meet me 277 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: for lunch. Sometime. She put gas in my car, give 278 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: me groceries, even when I tried to say, Mom, I 279 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: don't need it. She'd have groceries in my car when 280 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: I left somewhere, like she made sure that I was 281 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: never anywhere on my own. She is my girl. 282 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 3: And so you didn't know at the time that you 283 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 3: were practically battling with depression. Just you felt something was broken, 284 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: and you've now been so open about others. You've helped 285 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: others to create safe spaces. You know, our family, my 286 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: wife's a psychologists. Our families battle those same issues. So 287 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 3: when you look back and you reflect back in your 288 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: own journey, what have you learned about mental health and 289 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: what do you share with others? 290 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: I think that I learned really a lot about functioning 291 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: depression and trying to achieve to cure depression. I just 292 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: there are so many pockets of my life that I 293 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: feel like I don't remember because I was in such 294 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: a fog of depression that they are just memories that 295 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: I can't easily pull from. But what I have learned 296 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: is whether we acknowledge where we are, especially when we're 297 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: having harder emotions, whether we acknowledge it or not, it 298 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it's not showing up in our actions 299 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: in our life in some way. And I think giving 300 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: myself permission to feel because I think when I first 301 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: got pregnant and I realized by everyone else's response that 302 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: this is something bad has happened, this is something that's wrong, 303 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: I think I immediately shut down and just went into survival mode. 304 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: And oftentimes when we're in survival mode. Even in a 305 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: physical experience, if we're having a car accident or something 306 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: traumatic has happened to our bodies physically, sometimes we don't 307 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: feel the pain because there's so much adrenaline you're in 308 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: the moment that you can't tell that you're bleeding. And 309 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: I feel like mental health is very similar to that. 310 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: The shock of the trauma that we have experience can 311 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: be so jarring that we don't even take the time 312 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: to assess how we're showing up in the world and 313 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: how that could be depression, it could be anxiety, and 314 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: a lot of times it ends up showing in the 315 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: choices we make to a neessize those pains. And so 316 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: I think that I have learned to really take a 317 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: moment and ask myself, how did you feel after that happened. 318 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: Whether it feels like it was an immature response or 319 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: that's a response, I think it's important to really assess 320 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: I had a reaction to what just occurred. And it 321 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: has allowed me to not just recognize the moments where 322 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm having a heart emotion like depression, like anxiety, but 323 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: also to allow myself to experience joy because there are 324 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: so many things that happen that our answers to prayers, 325 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: that our dreams that we thought would never achieve, and 326 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: we're so busy moving going to the next thing that 327 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: we don't take a moment to really recognize, Like I'm 328 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: already standing in a dream that I thought would never 329 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: be and so I am prayer for that part of 330 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: what I get to pass down and maybe pass up, 331 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: because I think the beauty of legacy is not just 332 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: what we pass down, but we get to throw some 333 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: things up. Is this opportunity to allow yourself to take 334 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: up space in your own world, to not just run 335 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: your world and to function function in your world, but 336 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: to take up space to allow yourself to be one 337 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: of the main the main character in your story, and 338 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: to give yourself permission to do that has been really 339 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: helpful for me as I navigate what mental health looks like. 340 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 2: A main character energy. We have a sixteen almost seventeen 341 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: year old daughter, and she taught me recently that I 342 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: guess there was a social media trend about being that 343 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 2: main character energy. So it's interesting too, how kids can 344 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 2: they teach you quite a bit in the Black Church 345 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: for so long, I think, and maybe another face too, 346 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: I can only just talk about my experience. There was 347 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: a separation almost from mental health and then you know, 348 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 2: and then integrating that with our faith, did you did 349 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: you struggle? Because you find a way to beautifully yoke 350 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: them together. So what advice or what would you say 351 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 2: to a young person in particular that you know that 352 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 2: maybe want to talk about mental health, but maybe feel 353 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 2: that as a person of faith that make that that 354 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: it's not a safe space to talk about that. What 355 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 2: advice would you give someone. 356 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: That's that's so laired? First of all, I will say 357 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: I do think that that has been true in the 358 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: Black church, but I think it's been true in a 359 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: lot of black spaces at all. And I always preface 360 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: this by saying I've only ever been black, so it 361 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: could exist in white spaces and brown spaces and yellow spaces. 362 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: But one thing I know for sure is my black 363 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: experience is that we have been so trained to survive, 364 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: to do what we have to do, that we often 365 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: don't allow ourselves the opportunity to feel anything. You know, 366 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: suck it up, You'll be okay. You gotta do what 367 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: you gotta do. You gotta be strong, you got to 368 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: be this, you got to be that. Actually women, you're 369 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: stripped down. 370 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, maybe black men too, but it hasn't been 371 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 2: my experience. But yes, black women, you know we are 372 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 2: we are. We're taught were to be strong, to be yeah, yeah, 373 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 2: to go forward no matter what. 374 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: And what we don't realize are those expectations. They're they're ropes, 375 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: they're chains around and the more that we're tied to 376 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: this idea of you can't do this, you can't do that, 377 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: you can't do that, we're ended up living. We're ending 378 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: up living these restricted existences. And one of the things 379 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: that I wanted to do was leading my own transparency 380 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: and vulnerability to say, hey, I really thought that it 381 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: would disqualify me because when people started gravitating towards my 382 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: story and my interpretation of who God is and can 383 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: be in our lives, they didn't know that I was 384 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: a teenage mother. So I got pregnant before blogs, before 385 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: social media, and so I started writing this blog just 386 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: about me. I was in this toxic marriage and I 387 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, my life is unraveling, and 388 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna help it come undone by telling these stories 389 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: on this blog. And people started gravitating towards my message like, 390 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's me. You took the words that 391 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't say, Oh my gosh, this is what I 392 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: would pray to God if I could pray these things. 393 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my goodness, this is not ministry, Like, 394 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: this is just me telling my story. I can't be 395 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: a ministry. I'm a teen mom. And so I wrote 396 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: this blog post where I was like, I'm gonna just 397 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: let it. Everybody know that I'm a teen mom so 398 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: they can stop putting that pressure on me. It kind 399 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: of backfired because they were like, oh my goodness, now 400 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: that I know that you have a story too, now 401 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: I trust you even more. And so I think that 402 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: we have an opportunity in black faith spaces to be 403 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: intentional about telling our story to the extent that we 404 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: have healed from them. I like that, yeah, to the 405 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: extent that we've healed from them, to the extent that 406 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: we have become comfortable in them, and telling the nitty 407 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: gritty of the story, because our job is not to 408 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: look like God or to become God for other people, 409 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: is to lead people to them. And I think the 410 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: more that we are willing to say this is how 411 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: messed up, confuse upset, angry, bitter that I was. And 412 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: this is what I am learning about God's ability to 413 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: meet me in those spaces that I don't have to 414 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: get it all together, that I don't have to have 415 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: all the scriptures and know all the things. That He'll 416 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: take me broken, depressed, abused, strung out. He'll take me 417 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: just as I am and in love show me this 418 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,239 Speaker 1: version of myself that is possible. And I think that 419 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: if we're willing to tell those stories with courage and 420 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: with resiliency, especially as leaders, that we have a better 421 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: opportunity of having bait to lead people. But I think 422 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: in the attempt to restore the dignity of blackness, that 423 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: we became models of perfection that we can never truly 424 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: live up to. And I think that we're seeing the 425 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: deconstruction of that necessity that is allowing us to really 426 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: give space to our leaders having humanity. And I think 427 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: that we're going to see much healthier leadership because they 428 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: are not trying to be God, just lead people to 429 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: them like that a lot you're preaching to me. 430 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: Coming up on my legacy, Sarah opens up about the 431 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: relationships that almost broke her and what finally helped her 432 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 2: break the cycle. If you've ever needed a reminder of 433 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 2: your strength or know someone who does like, share and 434 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 2: send us their way. 435 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 3: Now back to my legacy. 436 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 2: Now I'm going to turn to your husband, because you've 437 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 2: said in the past that toxic relationships used to be 438 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: your drug of choice. I want to know what helped 439 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: you finally break that pattern. 440 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: I think what really helped me was really was realizing 441 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: that the toxic relationship wasn't with the other person, it 442 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: was with myself. Like I think that part of the 443 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: reason why I was so drawn to people who I 444 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: felt like I could save or make better, or who 445 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: could add it worth or value to me if they 446 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: were able to be loyal and significant, significantly present in 447 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: my life was because I felt so devalued myself, was 448 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 1: so insecure myself, I was so frustrated with who I 449 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: was that that person became a distraction and a trophy 450 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: that would make me feel better if ever they would 451 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: just get it together, And so I made the pursuit 452 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: of them my focus instead of really trying to figure 453 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: out who I was. And there was really one thought 454 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: that really changed my life. But it was after we 455 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: got into a really bad argument and the police recalled, 456 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: so maybe more than an argument, and I had to 457 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: go to CPS to just tell them, like, hey, the 458 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: kids are okay, you guys can continue to check in 459 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: on me, because the police had been involved, and I 460 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: was walking out of that CPS office and I just said, 461 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: I can do better than this. I can do better 462 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: than this. And it wasn't like I thought, I'm gonna 463 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: be a New York Times bestselling author and I'm gonna 464 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: host an event with forty thousand people. I meant, I 465 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: can avoid going to CPS offices, I can avoid getting 466 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: so angree that the police are called on me. I 467 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: can do better than this. And I just did what 468 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: was a little bit better than that, and then I 469 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: would get on that level and I would think I 470 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: could probably do a little bit better than this. I 471 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: moved back home with my parents and I had the kids, 472 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: and I thought, well, if I could just get my 473 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: own place, and better and better and better just became 474 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: my pursuit. Not better for the pursuit of moments like this, 475 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: but just better, because I just felt like, anything is 476 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: better than this, you know, anything is better than this, 477 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: and if to not pursue better is to move backwards 478 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: and I was moving backwards quickly. And I think that 479 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 1: that's what we have to understand in these toxic relationships, 480 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: whether it's with ourselves or with other people, because you 481 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: canna have a toxic relationship with yourself that makes you 482 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: just get degree a degree after degree because you think 483 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: that's going to make you feel better. A toxic relationship 484 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: that makes you achieve and pour yourself. Anyone who's dealing 485 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: with some type of trauma that is unresolved may have 486 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: a toxic relationship somewhere, but better. It's just I think 487 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: I can experience better health than where I currently am, 488 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: and I'm really grateful for who I am now on 489 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: the inside. Like I've had all of these different things 490 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: happen to me, I have not changed my bio on Instagram. 491 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: My bio is the same bio that I ever had, cause, 492 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: like I, you know, the books are nice, the things 493 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: are nice, but like, if that ever becomes my bio 494 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: for me, it just feels like I miss something because 495 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of the girl who like finally figured 496 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: out who Jesus is, who loves her husband, whose children 497 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: are her teacher, Like I'm so proud of who she 498 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: is that That's what I want you to know about me, 499 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: more than all of these things I achieved, because that's 500 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: what I fought for, and that's what I thought was 501 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: never possible. The other things are they're just cherries on top. 502 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about something that you wrote on Instagram, 503 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: because in your getting better and getting better and getting better, 504 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: at one point you thought that you didn't you did 505 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 2: not ever want to get remarried. Oh yeah, but then 506 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: someone changed your mind. Oh yeah, and this is what 507 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 2: you wrote on Instagram. The vulnerability required to become one 508 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: after you fought to become whole is not often discussed. 509 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 2: I had to surrender my identity as a powerful single 510 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 2: mother to discover my power as a married woman. 511 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, nasty work. You know. Here's the thing, here's the thing. 512 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 4: You know. 513 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: I got to a space where I was healthy, I'd 514 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: bought a home for me and my children, and I thought, 515 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: this is the dream. Like I thought that getting married 516 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: and having the white picket fence was the dream. I 517 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: saw that white picket finch just keep falling off over 518 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: and over again, and I said, you know what, fine, 519 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: I love being my mindself. I'll travel the world. I'm 520 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: still young. Everything will be fine. Then I'm at this man, 521 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: and in meeting him, I just I love the way 522 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: the world looked through his eyes. It was a compliment 523 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: to the way the world looked through my eyes. But 524 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: it also had so much more vibrancy and color, and 525 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: there was so much more care and depth for people 526 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: and opportunities. And I thought to myself, I think that 527 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: he would make me better. You know, as we talk 528 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: about this better better, But I will say that I 529 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: underestimated the transformation necessary for me to let go of 530 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: the pride of being like, oh my gosh, I made it. 531 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: I'm this, you know, single mother who bought this house. 532 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: And I can make good decisions and I can take 533 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: care of my family. I can I can bring home 534 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: the bacon and fried in a pan. And now I 535 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: have someone who's like, hey, I could grab the pan, 536 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: or hey, I could bring home the bacon. And I 537 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: think I did have a sense of pride and identity 538 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: connected to that. I never wanted to need a man again. 539 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: I never wanted to feel like my life would fall 540 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: apart if something happened. And I think, in the resistance 541 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: of oneness that I could have lost out on the 542 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: opportunity to experience the beauty of oneness, and so that 543 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: took a lot of work. He's got some battle scars, 544 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: God bless him. But my life woman evolved when exists 545 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: if it wasn't for him, because his ability to create 546 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: space for me to dream and to believe in those 547 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: dreams and to say they're not crazy, they're possible, gave 548 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: me the courage to actually pursue them. So he's definitely 549 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: been a north star for me for many years. 550 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 3: Now. 551 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: That's a beautiful sentiment. 552 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 5: Yes, you know, missus Jake's after more than forty years 553 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 5: of marriage and ministering to so many couples, what's one 554 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 5: simple thing that couples often miss when it comes to 555 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 5: staying connected? 556 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 3: Great question. 557 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 4: Yes, I was thinking. I do the premarital counselor for 558 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 4: a lot of the couple, and they do a survey 559 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 4: where at that particular time they answer a question or 560 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 4: a statement and say this is how I feel now. 561 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 4: And so when I go back with that survey with 562 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 4: them go through it, I found out that most of 563 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 4: the time, most of the time, whatever the problem is 564 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 4: at the beginning of the marriage will become the problem 565 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 4: that disrupts the marriage, whether it's the fact that you overspend, 566 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 4: or you've got children and their bonus children, or the 567 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 4: in laws or the outlaws, or the time spent doing 568 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 4: things that are extracurricular. So I've found out in our 569 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 4: marriage that the very thing that I do now I 570 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 4: did then the same way that I treat him, then 571 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: I still treat him now. Does he get on my nerves? 572 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 4: I would say occasional that. So I feel that if 573 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 4: you start the relationship based on the things that are 574 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 4: important to one another and not switch up, don't bait 575 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 4: and switch, Like if you're not going to make his 576 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 4: plate for the rest of the forty years, don't start it. 577 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 4: If he's not going to open the door for you 578 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 4: when you get in the car, and that's what you're expecting, 579 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 4: you should let him know that. But don't get in 580 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 4: the middle of the water and say, look, if you 581 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 4: don't open this door for me. So, I feel like 582 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 4: you have to set a standard at the beginning of 583 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 4: the marriage. These are the things I expect from you. 584 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 4: The I mean, truth, honesty, all of that that they 585 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 4: say with these new vows, they want to rewrite the vowels. 586 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 4: They don't want to be there for better or for worse. 587 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 4: In sickness and in hell. They don't want to forsake 588 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 4: all others. They don't want to do that, But it 589 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 4: is what it is. I don't care how you want 590 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 4: to make it flow through the rivers. When I saw 591 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 4: you walking through the door and the clouds gathered above 592 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 4: your head and it rained one drop on you, and 593 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 4: I knew that you were the one. They want to 594 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 4: write that sounds good, but in theory better for worse 595 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 4: sickness and in health, forsaking all others, richer or for poorer, 596 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 4: because you're going to hit all of those milestones throughout 597 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 4: your marriage. And so I feel like it is what 598 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 4: it is, you know, And I'll hit a milestone with him, 599 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 4: and I'll think, Wow, this is in sickness and in health. 600 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 601 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 4: Or I'll hit something when we went through and we 602 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 4: didn't have any water, or we didn't have any food 603 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 4: for the children, or we were on wick. 604 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: And food stamps. 605 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 4: Richer or for poorer and forsaking all others. Cling to him, 606 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 4: you have to, you have to or that's not your guy. 607 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 4: And so many people ended divorce and it really scares 608 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 4: me because you never know. Yesterday I was at a 609 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 4: memorial service and they were talking about how going up 610 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 4: the hill to Jerusalem, that you would find that there 611 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 4: were dens of thieves along the way and you would 612 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 4: fall into those traps, but you still had to keep 613 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 4: moving forward. And so I'm just thinking when those things 614 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 4: happened along the way during our forty two years of marriage, 615 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 4: I can see where there were as we traveled upward, 616 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 4: rich or poor, sickness and health. There were little entrapments, 617 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 4: snares if you will, that would waylay us unless we 618 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 4: decided that we were going to stick together. And he 619 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 4: was preaching when I married him, so I knew that 620 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 4: he was God, that's man. But if I was on 621 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 4: the other side of him, pulling on one arm and 622 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 4: God was shaking on the other side, that I was 623 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 4: going to lose. 624 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: Just I just want to say, you know, the din 625 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: of thieves along the way. Sometimes the thief will do 626 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: you a favor. I don't know if you noticed or not. No, Baby, 627 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: it's someone who's been through a divorce. Some of them thieves, Baby, 628 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: some of them thieves. Then did you a favor. He 629 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: gets your insurance. The insurance on the thing that you 630 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: done lost is more than what you lost in the 631 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: first place. 632 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 2: Cha. I just want to hear some of our listeners 633 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: in Hallelujah. 634 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 3: I wish our listeners are tuned into the video version 635 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 3: right now to look at Missus Jakes and her fal 636 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 3: expressions are phenomenal. Missus Jakeson's So we all know Bishops CG. 637 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 3: Jakes's America's preacher, but to you, he is your husband, 638 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 3: he is your father. Six months ago, of course, the 639 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 3: world held its breath, We all held our breaths when 640 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 3: he had that heart attack. So let me ask, well, 641 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 3: Missus Shakes, how is he doing now? 642 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 4: He's doing well, he's recovering. I don't want to say 643 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 4: that he's fully recovered, because then he thinks that he's 644 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 4: just going to go back to doing like he was 645 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 4: doing prior to. But he slowed down quite a bit significantly, 646 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,720 Speaker 4: and we did hold our breath. I didn't know how 647 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 4: or what that was going to be. Right on stage 648 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 4: and he sat down and he just I just looked 649 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 4: at him, and it was like, what is going on? 650 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 4: And I was recovering from knee replacement, and I stumbled 651 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 4: over there to him, and he was not there. He 652 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 4: was not there, and so the ambulance scooped him up 653 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,959 Speaker 4: up and got him to the hospital and they said, well, 654 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 4: you know, he's had a massive heart attack, and but 655 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 4: thank God decided that it was on. I hadn't been 656 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 4: the other side, we would have completely lost him, or 657 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 4: if the hospital had been farther away, we would have 658 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 4: lost him. So now I, with trepidation, I tell him 659 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 4: to slow down. Uh, he's so excited. He's such an 660 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,439 Speaker 4: extrovert that it's easy for me, as an introvert, to say, 661 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 4: you know, calm down, sit down. You know, it's going 662 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 4: to be fine. The people are gonna be fine. And 663 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 4: I'm so grateful that Sarah and Pastor Teray have come 664 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 4: alongside to help. They are help meets for sure, in 665 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 4: governing the church and the affairs of the church, and 666 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 4: and doing the teaching and the preaching. So that when 667 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 4: he gets some mike, he wants to holler a little bit, 668 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 4: but we tell him, don't you don't get to holler anymore. 669 00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: Pipe down. 670 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 4: Yes, but he's doing well. Thank you for asking wow. 671 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 3: Very deep prayers, and please send our love and our 672 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 3: gratitude to me. 673 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: I will between her knee replacement and his heart attack. 674 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: If you want to talk about legacy, I'm having a 675 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: hard time parenting my parents. 676 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 2: They don't did you tell them? Y'all got to come 677 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 2: and get it. Y'all got to get this together. 678 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: Here' not following the rules. They're not doing what they're 679 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: supposed to do. And it's funny because I got into 680 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble for not following rules, a lot 681 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: of trouble, and yet here we are. Legacy is not 682 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: legacy properly, you know what I mean? 683 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? Not really? 684 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 3: Well, I love listening to the two of you. 685 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 2: Next, Sarah talks about the messy middle, living in it 686 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 2: and loving yourself through it, like follow and share with 687 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 2: someone you love to let them know you've got them, 688 00:37:53,880 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 2: no matter where they are in their journey. Now back 689 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 2: to my legacy, Sarah. 690 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 3: When I think of your ministry or I think of 691 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 3: Women Evolve, it has been built on this radical transparency, 692 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 3: Like you have redefined what it means to be a 693 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 3: woman of faith based on radical transparency, your past, your marriage, 694 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 3: you're sharing your stories. Why with Women Evolve has it 695 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 3: and your entire ministry? Why has vulnerability been so important? 696 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 3: Why has it been so important for you to be 697 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 3: this radically transparent with all those who look to you? 698 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that I saw it as 699 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: radical when it started. Like I said, I kind of 700 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: thought that if I told people, they would be like, oh, 701 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: my goodness, will leave her alone and it won't be 702 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: a thing. But the more that I realized how many 703 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: of us are suffering in silence, the more I felt like, 704 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 1: if I can tell my story and it helps someone else, 705 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: then I'll tell it one more time. And if it 706 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: helps someone else, I'll tell it another time. And I 707 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: think what I have learned is that through isolation, the 708 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: darker voices, the harder voices, the meaner voices that we 709 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: hear in our head, they're louder, and until you hear 710 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: someone say like, hey, I felt that too. But I'm 711 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: telling you it wasn't always like that, or that I 712 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: found a flicker that it gives someone permission to start 713 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: looking for light even in their dark seasons. And I 714 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: didn't want to. I didn't want to be in ministry. 715 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: I didn't have this as like a goal in my heart. 716 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: And so I'm like, if I'm going to do this, 717 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna at least be honest. I don't want anyone 718 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: to ever be surprised that because I preached a message 719 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: that I experienced depression, that I worked at a strip club, 720 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: like I want you to know, like this is what 721 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: you're getting. It is not much, but I am gonna 722 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: give my best. I'm gonna share my best, and if 723 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: I make you feel less alone, then girl, we could 724 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,240 Speaker 1: grab arms and move towards better together. But I just didn't. 725 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: I just didn't want to. I didn't want to live 726 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: on a pedestal. I wanted to be able to Sometimes 727 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: on my social media, I'll be like all glammed up, 728 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: dressed up. Other moments I'll literally be snatching my wig 729 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: off and washing my face like this is like this 730 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: is all of who I am. And I just don't 731 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 1: want people to be connected to this caricature. I don't 732 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: want to be trapped in my own life. And so 733 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: for me, my honesty has been my freedom. My honesty 734 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: has been the runway that allows me to not feel 735 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: stuck in this life. And I think because of that, 736 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,839 Speaker 1: my prayer is that I'll continue to have endurance for 737 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,439 Speaker 1: what is ahead because I don't have to figure out 738 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: how do I keep this mask up? How do I 739 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: keep this facade going? My greatest question is how do 740 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: I continue to be honest in a way that reaches 741 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: the most unlikely person. 742 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 3: I feel like it was like a mic drop moment 743 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,959 Speaker 3: right there. I wish more young people, especially on social media. 744 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: I just heard that message, and for any of our 745 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 3: listeners like share that clip, like to connect with that moment. 746 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 3: I love that you speak to women who are in 747 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 3: the middle of it. I like this turn, not post breakthrough, 748 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 3: not post glow up. What do you want people to 749 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 3: know about the messy middle of the journey. 750 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: I think that people should know that it's all the 751 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: messy middle. You know what I mean. That's that it's 752 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: all the messy middle, that there is no there, there, 753 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: there is no once I do this, then that once 754 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: you get there, you realize that there's another mountain, that 755 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 1: it keeps going, that there's something else that you have 756 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: to overcome. So instead of trying to get post anything, 757 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: I think the question is how do I find the 758 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: better in now? And I think that that has been 759 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: one of the things that has really been instrumental for me, 760 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,240 Speaker 1: is recognizing that there's beauty in the messy middle. And 761 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: if I keep moving the goal post, then I'll never 762 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 1: find peace. But if I dare to believe that there's 763 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 1: peace somewhere here, then all I have to do is 764 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: start searching for where it exists. Now I just have 765 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: gone through enough to I mean, especially if you think 766 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: about my life like as a team mother. I thought, 767 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: when I get married, then I'll be okay. And then 768 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: I got married, and I'm like, well, if he would 769 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: do this, then I'll be okay. And if we do that, 770 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: then I'll be okay. And then I left and I'm like, 771 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: if I could get the house, then I'll be okay. 772 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: Then I got the house and I met this incredible man, 773 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: and it's like, okay. Once I moved to La then 774 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 1: like it just kept moving, and so it dawned on me. 775 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,439 Speaker 1: This is all a part of the journey. It's all 776 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: the messy middle. But I do believe that our lives 777 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: can be scripted and cursive. And I say it can 778 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: be because a lot of times we miss out on 779 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: how things can be woven together. We miss out on 780 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,760 Speaker 1: how all things can work together because we segment our lives, 781 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: we try to leave some things behind. I'm gonna pretend 782 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: like that never happened. I'm going to become another person, 783 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: not realizing that the beauty of our story is the 784 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: full weight of our story. And so if we can 785 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: collect all of our pieces and look at the president 786 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: and say, Okay, this is the wisdom I have, the 787 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,280 Speaker 1: experiences I have, how do I apply it to this moment? 788 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: I have found that that is the shovel that we 789 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: used to find the beauty in the mess. 790 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 2: When I keep when I hear you speak about the 791 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 2: messy middle, I keep thinking about the whole idea of 792 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 2: a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, right, and when they go 793 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 2: into that cocoon. What most people don't know scientifically, it's painful. 794 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 2: So if you're looking at the cocoon, if you're looking 795 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 2: at with your naked eye, you see it, you know, 796 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,359 Speaker 2: moving and wiggling, and it just seems like this is 797 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 2: it is too hard, it's too it's too much. If 798 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 2: you cut that cocoon at that point, it is messy. 799 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 2: There is it's a puddle, you know that, it literally is. 800 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 2: If you would open it up, it's a puddle. It's messy. 801 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 2: And actually that butterfly is not formed. It's through that 802 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 2: messy middle. It's through that struggle that the caterpillar emerges 803 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 2: as the butterfly. 804 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: I think that's an incredible analogy and one that I 805 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: think all of us experience in a cycle though, you know, 806 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: like we get these beautiful wings for certain seasons, and 807 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 1: then we start realizing, like, wait a minute, I think 808 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: I'm turning to a caterpillar again, and now I'm going 809 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: back into the cocoon again. 810 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 811 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: I think that's the part is embracing, like that's okay. 812 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: Like I was I needed to be super president in 813 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: my children's life, and now they're moving to One of 814 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,800 Speaker 1: my oldest son will be moving to New York this summer, 815 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: and it's like my definition of motherhood is changing, and 816 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: so I have to support him in different ways. So 817 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in a cocoon as his mother, 818 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: but I'm in a butterfly season as it relates to 819 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 1: being back in school, and so we're all in different 820 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: seasons and stages of our lives depending on the roles 821 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: that we're in. But being okay with realizing I'm going 822 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,719 Speaker 1: to be in somebody's middle in some stage of my 823 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: life and that's going to be okay because I want 824 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 1: to thank God for the butterfly. I'm going to submit 825 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: to the liquid and I'm going to enjoy the air 826 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: of a caterpillar life. Try to find something in each 827 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: of those moments. 828 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 2: I love too, how you just bought forth that you 829 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 2: can be in different phases, different areas of your life. 830 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 2: I think that's so important for so many of us 831 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 2: to hear and to visually think about it that way. 832 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 5: Missus Jakes, when you see who your daughter has become, 833 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 5: what are you most proud of? 834 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 4: I think the fact that she survived that I'm grateful 835 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 4: that she survived. There were so many the vicissitudes of 836 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,760 Speaker 4: her life, A lot I didn't know until she wrote 837 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 4: about a lot of it I witnessed first. And but 838 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 4: to know that she survived at all. You know, pearls 839 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 4: are formed in irritation and diamonds come from coal, and 840 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 4: people always want the end result, but they didn't see 841 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 4: the story along the way. So when I see her 842 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 4: out ministering and her first woman evolved, this is her 843 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 4: generation that seeks hope. And so when I see her, 844 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 4: I feel like, you go girl, you go girl. But 845 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,240 Speaker 4: at the same time, I'm the watchman on the wall, 846 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 4: and it's like, don't don't go, don't don't disrespect her, 847 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 4: don't try to disrupt what God is doing at that moment, 848 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 4: because you know some people will come and they want 849 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 4: to outspeak her without the MC. So I'm the one 850 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:41,319 Speaker 4: that says, hush, stop it, it's not your turn. And 851 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 4: so I'm most in awe of the gift of God 852 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 4: that's in her and flowing through her. I don't I 853 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 4: don't see her as my daughter. I see her as 854 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:03,799 Speaker 4: God's messenger of hope for me, for her daughter, for 855 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 4: my mother, and you doing what I was unable to do, 856 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 4: and the stance that you've taken upon the centuries of 857 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 4: hard labor that our mothers are are the female generation 858 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 4: had to go through but ash And so when I 859 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 4: see her, I see glory. When I hear her, I 860 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,439 Speaker 4: hear glory. When I'm in the room with her, I 861 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 4: feel glory. And so that's that's I just hallelujah oocuse you. 862 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 2: Can say hallelujah on this podcast. 863 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 4: And I think, what a what a wonderful gift God 864 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 4: allowed me to participate in, because not one day does 865 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 4: your heart beat that mine doesn't be because you're talking 866 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 4: about you living in me. And even though they cut 867 00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,760 Speaker 4: the cord, they. 868 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 2: Didn't always say that before our children first we hold 869 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,400 Speaker 2: them in our womb then we hold them in our arms, 870 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 2: and we always hold them in our hearts. 871 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 4: Always, always. 872 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: I think that we're fortunate, because I know not everyone 873 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: has the healthiest experiences and a mother daughter relationship. And 874 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,800 Speaker 1: yet I'm grateful that in many ways we've been able 875 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: to show people what's possible. That wasn't our intention, But 876 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,879 Speaker 1: I do think there's something very healing about experiencing your heart. 877 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: It inspires me as a mother, like I want my children. 878 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 1: If my children feel about me the way I feel 879 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: about my mother, I would have done a really good job. 880 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 3: Well, Sarah and missus Jakes. Was a privilege to listen 881 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 3: and to witness the two of you together, Missus Jake's 882 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 3: it sounds like the love that your daughter holds for 883 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 3: you is bound us Sarah, the admiration your mom holds 884 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 3: for you, and the two of you being so just 885 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,840 Speaker 3: open about the journey, how it hasn't always been easy, 886 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 3: so vulnerable about what we went through, the healing, the reconciliation, 887 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,439 Speaker 3: the learnings, the ministry, the sharing, that messy middle, that 888 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 3: caterpillar emerging into that butterfly that inspires now millions around 889 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 3: the world. And so thank you for sharing your legacy 890 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 3: with all of our listeners and viewers, and thank you 891 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 3: for sharing that legacy with the world and. 892 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,879 Speaker 4: For allowing us a safe place to just share our 893 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,839 Speaker 4: hearts and take off the mask and be real. It's 894 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,520 Speaker 4: so important that we don't have to pretend this is 895 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 4: who we are. 896 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much, thank. 897 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 2: You, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. 898 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 2: If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us 899 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 2: at my Legacy Movement on social media. New episodes drop 900 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 2: every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday. At its core, 901 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,759 Speaker 2: this podcast honors doctor King's vision of the beloved community 902 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 2: and the power of connection. A Legacy Plus Studio production 903 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:19,399 Speaker 2: distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne Haywood co 904 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 2: executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or 905 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,719 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may you 906 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:35,880 Speaker 2: find inspiration to live your legacy.