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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House to works dot Com. Hey there, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Kristen, I'm Molly, Molly. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: say that the United States of America, this land in

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Speaker 1: which we live, uh, is pretty progressive in terms of

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Speaker 1: women's rights time fairly probably compared to other countries. Have

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Speaker 1: a pretty rich history of you know, the suffrage movement,

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Speaker 1: second wave feminism, third wave feminism, et cetera. Told you Mom,

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Speaker 1: Molly and Kristen. Um, we're writing a new chapter right now.

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Speaker 1: But there's one one area that the US really lags

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Speaker 1: behind a lot of other countries that really we would

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Speaker 1: not think of as very um progressive in terms of

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Speaker 1: gender equality political representation. Very true, very true. Now you

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Speaker 1: might not think so given what's been going on in

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Speaker 1: the past few months with the passage of healthcare form,

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Speaker 1: because Nancy Pelosi is getting all these kudos as you know,

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Speaker 1: the one who gathered all that consensus. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we've got a handful of women in political office um

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Speaker 1: or who have been given political appointments. Yeah, and We're

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Speaker 1: in the hundred and eleven Congress, and they actually broke

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Speaker 1: the record, uh for the most female representation in Congress,

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Speaker 1: taking it from a whopping sixteen to seventeen percent. Wow,

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Speaker 1: pretty small proportion considering that, you know, the population is

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Speaker 1: roughly half female, and there are many who would make

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Speaker 1: the argument, Kristen, then if we really wanted to have

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Speaker 1: a represent senative government that's going to take into account

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Speaker 1: all citizens perspectives, needs, desires, et cetera, you need to

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Speaker 1: have that female point of view. Now. One place only

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Speaker 1: that this has been happening is India. In early March,

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Speaker 1: the upper house of India's parliament passed the bill that

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Speaker 1: to amend the constitution to have one third of seats

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Speaker 1: in India's national and state legislatures reserved for women. No

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Speaker 1: matter what, third of the parliamentary seats got to be

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Speaker 1: filled by women, all right, And this seems like, hey,

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Speaker 1: off the cuff, this is great news, right, India, huge

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Speaker 1: population going to be you know, ruled by partially ruled

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Speaker 1: by women now more. Well, it's been very controversial in

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Speaker 1: India because there's been a lot of discussion about who

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Speaker 1: actually benefits. You know, we've talked about India before. How

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Speaker 1: it's very heavily still influenced by that cast system. So

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Speaker 1: some people are saying that this is, you know, only

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Speaker 1: good for certain classes, um, certain religions, and that the

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Speaker 1: women who are going to get put into office are

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Speaker 1: essentially just gonna be puppets for other political parties. But

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Speaker 1: this idea of putting a quota into place to expand

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Speaker 1: the female representation of a government or political party is

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Speaker 1: actually very widespread. But Molly, what are we really referring

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Speaker 1: to when we're talking about this quota. Obviously it's a

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Speaker 1: requirement um that a certain number of women fill government seats.

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Speaker 1: But there are two main distinctions between uh quotas. There

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Speaker 1: is the legal quota, in which a country's constitution is

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Speaker 1: actually amended to require certain percentage of women representatives or

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Speaker 1: they will just have a law enacted. And then you

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Speaker 1: also have something called political party quotas, which there's no

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Speaker 1: there's no legal recourse at all, But it's when political

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Speaker 1: parties taken upon themselves. For instance, if the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: decides that they want more women um in their ranks,

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Speaker 1: they might enact a party quota for what their candidates

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Speaker 1: to be women. So now, why would you want to

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Speaker 1: do this all over the world. I think it's you know,

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Speaker 1: not new to anyone that women have always been sort

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Speaker 1: of the second sex. To borrow a popular phrase, UM,

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Speaker 1: and in order to fully accomplish equality, some would argue

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Speaker 1: that you've got to put them in positions of power,

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Speaker 1: because how can you really affect change if you have

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Speaker 1: no power to influence laws at the very creation of

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Speaker 1: So obviously, since women make up half the population, if

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Speaker 1: we're also not in government and don't have a say

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Speaker 1: with what's going on, that means that our needs specific

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Speaker 1: needs UM, which are usually characterized by UM childcare and

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Speaker 1: family issues, UM, equal opportunity and employment and UH reproductive health,

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Speaker 1: reproductive health, sexual health and safety, all of that, equal pay,

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Speaker 1: equal pay. Yes, well, all of these wonderful things are

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Speaker 1: not necessarily being attended to UM in government. So that's

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Speaker 1: the major pro that people see with enacting these quotas,

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Speaker 1: is UM bringing you know, more of a balance I

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Speaker 1: guess into the type of legislation that's being passed, and

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Speaker 1: it's you know, some will argue that these women do

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Speaker 1: need some sort of compensation for barriers that have been

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Speaker 1: put into their place, that right now they don't have

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Speaker 1: the same qualifications as men. Perhaps, you know, our daughters

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Speaker 1: will grow up and see more women in political politics

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Speaker 1: and they wouldn't need, you know, to hop a barrier

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Speaker 1: to get there. But right now, have women had the

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Speaker 1: same political training as men had? Now, it's very easy

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Speaker 1: to flip this around and say this totally goes against

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Speaker 1: what we believe in as a democracy, because our government

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Speaker 1: is built on the fact that we elect people based

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Speaker 1: on their qualifications and if we don't like what would

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Speaker 1: they do? We we throw them out. So how in

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Speaker 1: the world is a good idea, Christen to put women

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Speaker 1: into seats and then just say, well, no matter if

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Speaker 1: every woman who does a crappy job in this position,

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Speaker 1: you know, screws everything up, we've still got to keep

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Speaker 1: her in this We still have to keep a woman

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Speaker 1: in this chair, right And I think that that's the

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Speaker 1: major question that we have to ask ourselves when evaluating

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Speaker 1: whether or not female quotas are a good thing, because

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Speaker 1: I think that, um, I don't know about you, Molly,

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Speaker 1: but going into this topic, my knee jerk answer was sure,

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Speaker 1: of course it is it's a good idea or it's

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Speaker 1: democratic that it's a good idea. Um, but but you're right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like is that also at the same time

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Speaker 1: not only dismantling our ideas of equal opportunity and democracy,

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Speaker 1: but also almost categorizing women once again into this like

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Speaker 1: kind of separate, special little corner that they need to

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Speaker 1: hang out in and you know, work on their like childcare,

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Speaker 1: et cetera types of issues, rather than allowing the US

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Speaker 1: to you know, have to jump in the fray and

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Speaker 1: get in there right beside um elbow our way and

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Speaker 1: you know, alongside the men. Right, you'd always have to

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Speaker 1: wonder if you were in power just because you're a woman,

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Speaker 1: or if you really had something I think to contribute

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Speaker 1: to the government. Now, one of my other pro I'll

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Speaker 1: mention that we kind of skipped over is that in

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Speaker 1: this country, and we're gonna keep comparing, I guess to

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Speaker 1: the United States, but you know, again, we don't have

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Speaker 1: any sort of quota system in the United States in

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Speaker 1: political government. This is more you know, largely in the

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Speaker 1: developing world, places like Latin America, Africa. But anyway, it's

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Speaker 1: also good. I think the one thing I did like

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Speaker 1: about it is that if you have a quote of

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Speaker 1: you know, third of your seats let's say, are dedicated

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Speaker 1: to women in government, just to note, is usually the

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Speaker 1: average quota. In fact, we can only find one example

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Speaker 1: where there's a fifty fifty mandate, which some people say

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Speaker 1: benefits guys as well as women. But I digress. The

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Speaker 1: one thing I wanted to say that was cool about

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Speaker 1: having a quota as opposed to just you know, grooming

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Speaker 1: certain women for a position is that there's no token female,

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Speaker 1: which I do think is something that's still you know,

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Speaker 1: perhaps dogs women in the United States, they're set apart

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Speaker 1: there the token female. I think that's very stressful. You

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Speaker 1: think about all the pressure that's put on Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: in the last presidential election to be you know this,

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Speaker 1: you know, banner carrier for women, And isn't it easier

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Speaker 1: for women to actually gain footholds in government when they

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Speaker 1: don't have to be the representative of their entire gender? Well, Sharon,

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Speaker 1: I think that you could say that on the flip

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Speaker 1: side as well, for um, for Sarah Palin obviously completely

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Speaker 1: different politics, but I think for that segment of women

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Speaker 1: who supported her, you know, a lot of it was um,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it came from the fact that she was,

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Speaker 1: you know, a working, a working mother, But I think

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Speaker 1: more on that, more on that later. I think one

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Speaker 1: one thing we have to keep in mind too when

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Speaker 1: we're thinking about this issue of political quotas in the

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Speaker 1: States is that UM, they're going to operate a lot

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Speaker 1: differently and have a much different effect I think in

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Speaker 1: more of the developing world and in UM in countries

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Speaker 1: where women UM still are a far more disenfranchised than

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Speaker 1: they are in the US. For instance, quotas have been

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Speaker 1: enforced in a growing number of Asian countries and to

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Speaker 1: the point that it's been referred to as as something

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Speaker 1: called quota fever UM. And this includes countries like India,

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Speaker 1: Bangladesh and Pakistan. But the thing is they've had UH,

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Speaker 1: they've had mixed results because a lot of times these

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Speaker 1: might be illiterate women coming from smaller villages who are

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Speaker 1: just being tapped because they have to be tapped and

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Speaker 1: are then simply used as pawns by the male leaders

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Speaker 1: of political parties. They're not actually allowed to do, um

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Speaker 1: anything really worthwhile. And this is also a complaint UM

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Speaker 1: that UM some women in the Iraqi government have expressed

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Speaker 1: because Iraq also has a quota and but a lot

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Speaker 1: of these women are complaining because they're saying they're being

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Speaker 1: kind of pushed off to the softer ministries, they're not

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Speaker 1: really allowed to get in there and work alongside men.

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Speaker 1: But that also has to do with Islamic tradition that

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Speaker 1: generally segregates men from women as well. So that divide

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Speaker 1: gets back to what you're discussing when you explained the

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Speaker 1: difference between the political quota and the legal quota. It

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Speaker 1: seems that women who are tapped to be part of

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Speaker 1: just a political party slate are at a huge disadvantage

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Speaker 1: just because they do have to, you know, keep in

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Speaker 1: stride with a party leader and that article you mentioned

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Speaker 1: about their reccomen and some of them have formed their

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Speaker 1: own party to try and you know, show to the

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Speaker 1: people that they aren't under the thumb of some minister

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Speaker 1: who's telling them what to say. But you know, in

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Speaker 1: that same artcle another I raccoon and raise the point

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Speaker 1: that politics and governance is all about ideas, theories, what's

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Speaker 1: best for the entire people, And she didn't know if

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Speaker 1: a gender approach would be the best way to deal

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Speaker 1: with that. And a lot of times the women who

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Speaker 1: are being selected to fill these reserved seats um are

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Speaker 1: going to kind of just naturally be extensions of powerful

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Speaker 1: men in government, especially in a lot of Latin American

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Speaker 1: and South American countries, which we have learned from two

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Speaker 1: articles by Alexander Starr. The first one was in Slate

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, and then there was one

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Speaker 1: um publish actually a week ago in Foreign Policy, and

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Speaker 1: she points out that in a lot of the Latin America,

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Speaker 1: a lot of Latin American countries, these women will be

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Speaker 1: will be tabbed because they are the daughters or wives

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Speaker 1: of presidents or other powerful men in government, which is

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Speaker 1: something that Hillary Clinton had to shake the entire campaign. Sure,

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Speaker 1: so we've got women that, as you mentioned, Christeners, essentially

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Speaker 1: just tapped because they know someone. And from the outside,

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Speaker 1: it might look like these statistics of female participation in

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Speaker 1: the government are really, you know, a positive development. You know,

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Speaker 1: you see more women involved. From the outside, that seems

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Speaker 1: like it can only be good for the country. But

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Speaker 1: then you've got to start looking at what they actually

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Speaker 1: do when they're in power, and that's where things have

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Speaker 1: started to break down, because we don't see the kind

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Speaker 1: of change that we might expect from a female leader.

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Speaker 1: Now that's got a lot of you know, asterisk we've

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Speaker 1: got to say. I mean, it's like, what do you

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Speaker 1: consider the proper policy path for a female leader? Right?

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Speaker 1: And should we expect a certain set of policies exactly?

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Speaker 1: But you know a lot of these women essentially just

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Speaker 1: continue to follow the previous government. They're they're not rocking

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Speaker 1: the boat in ways that you might expect them to

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Speaker 1: if there was a need for political quote if that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. I mean, obviously you're saying, if we if

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Speaker 1: we need a quota, there's something wrong with you know,

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Speaker 1: not getting the female voice heard. But then once these

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Speaker 1: women are in those positions, what exactly are they trying

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Speaker 1: to say about the female experience within that country? Right?

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Speaker 1: I think that one example we could look at would

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Speaker 1: have been UM Christina Kirshner, who won the presidency in

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Speaker 1: Argentina in two thousand seven. Incidentally, her husband held office

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Speaker 1: right before then. UM. And even though you know she

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Speaker 1: held the highest seat as a female first you know,

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Speaker 1: female female president, she still didn't push for UM for

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Speaker 1: issues like equal pay. She's still kind of held on

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Speaker 1: to her husband's more conservative UM more conservative party lines.

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Speaker 1: But then you do have examples of women who are

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Speaker 1: uh coming together more as a unit, not necessarily just

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Speaker 1: individual women in government, but women who are really using

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Speaker 1: their I guess block voting power to enact positive change.

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Speaker 1: Um Star points out in her article on foreign policy

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Speaker 1: that um after a quota law on Rwanda mandated that

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Speaker 1: women had to take at least thirty percent of the

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Speaker 1: seats in parliament, those female legislators passed through laws defining

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Speaker 1: rape and protecting victims of sexual abuse. That's huge, it's huge.

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Speaker 1: But then you have to wonder, I mean, is it

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Speaker 1: something that a man is going to respect or is

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Speaker 1: it considered you know, the quote unquote women's law, And

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Speaker 1: a lot of scholars have tried to look at whether

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Speaker 1: quotas actually you know, affect a man's poor and a

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Speaker 1: view on whether a woman can lead. I mean, even

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Speaker 1: in our own country, I think that it's not difficult

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Speaker 1: to find a fellow who might believe that a woman

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Speaker 1: could be president because she has a period on a

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Speaker 1: monthly basis. Sure that those kind of jokes were loved

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Speaker 1: all the time with with Clinton and Palin. Right, So

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Speaker 1: if a guy in let's say India, for example, then

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Speaker 1: sees a woman who is leading effectively, does that change

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Speaker 1: his mind about whether a woman can lead even if

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Speaker 1: she is inherently different than a man, or does it

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Speaker 1: only make him react negatively towards anything she tries to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would think that, um, it could have definitely a

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Speaker 1: polarizing effect. And UM the researchers who are trying to

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Speaker 1: answer that question UM also point out that in a

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Speaker 1: lot of these countries that are instituting what we would

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Speaker 1: call fast track quotas, where they immediately pass a law,

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Speaker 1: you know, get the quota on the books. Especially in

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Speaker 1: a lot of these UM Latin American countries, I think

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Speaker 1: they're like twelve or fifteen now that have the quotas.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the government's use those quotas not so

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Speaker 1: much for internal change, but rather to polish their international

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Speaker 1: image because they know that it's a good thing to

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Speaker 1: show themselves as being gender friendly. UM. But they're but

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Speaker 1: they're not really giving the supporting the women and giving

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Speaker 1: them enough opportunity are really interested in um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I guess instituting more gender gender friendly policies within

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Speaker 1: the country. But I think that an interesting contrast so

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Speaker 1: that we have to talk about are these Scandinavian countries

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Speaker 1: that have taken more of a slow track none of

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Speaker 1: them have laws on the books mandating quotas. All their

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Speaker 1: quotas have started within political parties, and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: had this contagious reaction among other political parties. Like once, uh,

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Speaker 1: once they realized that one party is open to more

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Speaker 1: female representation than another party scrambles to do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: And slowly, but surely, you've had this kind of organic

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Speaker 1: build up of women in government. It's taken a while, however,

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Speaker 1: it's there, and it seems like women are given a

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Speaker 1: lot more support and might be perceived, um, not so

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Speaker 1: much as women politicians, but just as politicians, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that one of the articles they read essentially,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of made a I mean I was

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Speaker 1: probably reading too much into this, but essentially that feminists

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Speaker 1: aren't patient, and if they were a little bit more

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Speaker 1: patient in terms of getting women representation in these governments,

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Speaker 1: they would see more of what the analysts call equality

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Speaker 1: of results as opposed to equality of opportunity, because a

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Speaker 1: quality of opportunity refers to the fact that you've got

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Speaker 1: the women in the office. But then you've got to

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Speaker 1: look at do you have them, um, assuming senior leadership roles,

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Speaker 1: do you have them in office long enough to actually

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Speaker 1: affect change. I mean, institutional change is slow. And if

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Speaker 1: you can actually look more at what these women do

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Speaker 1: once they have the power, the results is their equality

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Speaker 1: there as opposed to just how many women hold a seat, right.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think that we can completely discredit the

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Speaker 1: role of quotas, especially with a lot of these um

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Speaker 1: developing countries where yeah, you might need you really might

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Speaker 1: need to just kick start um more equal representation from

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Speaker 1: the top down, because otherwise the society isn't structured to

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Speaker 1: allow it to build up from from the bottom. But

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Speaker 1: I think though, um, just from my perspective, if they

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Speaker 1: were trying, if they tried in the United States to

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Speaker 1: pass some kind of quote a law, I think that

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Speaker 1: there would be just massive outrage, so it would never work. No,

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Speaker 1: but do we But again, like you've got to ask yourself,

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Speaker 1: do you want it to work? Do you want to

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Speaker 1: get into office because you're a woman. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to get a job because you're a woman. You certainly

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Speaker 1: don't want to be denied a job because you're a woman,

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Speaker 1: But would you want to assume a job because you

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Speaker 1: were one? Yeah? And that's what we can't answer. But well,

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Speaker 1: and that's a question that we come back to a

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Speaker 1: lot on all these podcasts like this keeps reminding me

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Speaker 1: of the of the episode that we did about um,

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Speaker 1: women behind the camera, you know, women directors and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and in this whole argument of whether or not, you know,

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Speaker 1: we should even be calling them women filmmakers and their

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Speaker 1: own special you know category, or should they you know,

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Speaker 1: take the Catherine big a low tech and say, I'm

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Speaker 1: just a director. I don't even want to be called

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Speaker 1: a female director, you know, I mean, that's and it

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Speaker 1: seems completely unrelated. But I do think that that's a question, um,

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Speaker 1: that we come back to a lot of like are

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Speaker 1: we really focusing on the fact that we're women doing

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Speaker 1: these things? But then, you know, as a woman, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's hard to see what um, you know, a bunch

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Speaker 1: of white guys, old white guys, frankly think about what

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Speaker 1: I should do with my body or my life for

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Speaker 1: how they're going to compensate me for. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's everyone can make political change in their own way there,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to be in office to

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Speaker 1: do it. But you know, it is interesting to consider

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Speaker 1: whether there are institutional blocks to getting a woman into office.

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Speaker 1: In this country, and I think I think it'll be

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Speaker 1: interesting too to see what happens um with India in

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Speaker 1: this situation, because I think that that's a good example

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Speaker 1: of where the quota might actually be disenfranchising people i e.

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Speaker 1: The poor and the lower cast who might need that

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Speaker 1: representation even more than a specific gender, because it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of upper class, upper cast um

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Speaker 1: women who are going to be tapped for these positions,

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Speaker 1: and that might not actually lead to positive social change.

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Speaker 1: So things to think about. Keep an eye on it. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's no right or wrong answer with this one, guys,

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Speaker 1: let us know what you think. Our quote is a

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Speaker 1: good idea, a bad idea, somewhere in between. We'd love

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Speaker 1: to know. Our email address is mom Stuff at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, and with our few remaining minutes,

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Speaker 1: we shall read emails that were written to that very

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Speaker 1: same email address. All right, First up, we have an

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Speaker 1: email from Tiffany and she wrote about the podcast on

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Speaker 1: Lady Poop, one of our favorites. She writes, I had

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Speaker 1: to share a well known celebration of poop in the military,

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Speaker 1: although not commonly discussed outside the military. There's a celebration

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Speaker 1: of sorts on a special day and Basic training. I

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Speaker 1: was told before I left for Basic training that I

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Speaker 1: would be constipated the first few weeks of training. Whether

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Speaker 1: this is due to the extreme emotional and physical stress

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Speaker 1: you undergo that first week, or the change in diet

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Speaker 1: or both is debatable, but everyone experiences this. Some women

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Speaker 1: are lucky to only be backed up for a few days,

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Speaker 1: but there are a few unlucky girls who can go

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Speaker 1: a week or more. And on a side note, most

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Speaker 1: of us skip periods as we females start to form

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Speaker 1: a camaraderie in the absence of men. We also dropped

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Speaker 1: most pretenses to femininity. I remember after a few days

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Speaker 1: when a woman came out of the bathroom and gave

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Speaker 1: a big thumbs up. Everyone would cheer and give her

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Speaker 1: a high five. It was the only time I saw

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Speaker 1: a bunch of girls cheer for poop and act proud

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Speaker 1: of it. I guess it takes pretty intense and special

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Speaker 1: moments and a lack of men to get girls cheering

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Speaker 1: for poop. Okay, well, I've got an email here from

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Speaker 1: Joe and this is a response to our podcast about sunscreen.

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Speaker 1: Because it's getting warmer outside Walling, it's very warm and

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Speaker 1: very sunny. And Joe actually wrote us some lyrics in

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Speaker 1: a chorus, in a bridge, an entire song. If you

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Speaker 1: will to um our song title, you Can't Kiss with

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Speaker 1: Sunburned Lips. It was. It was the most thorough response

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Speaker 1: to our request for a song. Yes, and he did

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Speaker 1: promise that he would perform it and put it up

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. But Joe, you have yet to do that.

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Speaker 1: Not to put you on the spot, Joe, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm just giving you a hard time. So not knowing

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Speaker 1: the tune, Chris, you really can't sing it, by the

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Speaker 1: way Joe intended. And y'all don't want me to sing it,

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Speaker 1: but you could probably give us a glimpse of what

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Speaker 1: the lyrics to this epic song are. I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what I'll send you. I'll read averse a bridge in

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Speaker 1: the chorus. Okay, okay, just another day at the beach.

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Speaker 1: You've gone every day since I don't know when, trying

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Speaker 1: to tan, looking healthy and young, because at that time

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Speaker 1: of her again, laying on your towel, you prepare yourself.

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Speaker 1: You brought your SPF thirty. You spread on the places

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Speaker 1: that the sun will kiss and smile and the passing

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Speaker 1: guys being flirty. But there's just one place that you

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Speaker 1: will miss. Don't you think it's funny that I mentioned kiss?

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Speaker 1: And here's the course, Well, I get ready. I wish

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Speaker 1: you had a banjo or I didn't. I wish I

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Speaker 1: had one, all right, because you can't kiss with sunburnt lips.

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Speaker 1: Your premature agent tells me where you've been. Your lips

404
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: look fifty though you're twenty two. Like Kristen says, protect

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Speaker 1: your skin, especially between your nose and your chin. And

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Speaker 1: that's all I mean. Oh, it's it's the best song

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Speaker 1: that mentions my name that I can think of. That

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Speaker 1: was my name, Molly, but my name is in it

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Speaker 1: later on you're not the only one mentioned the song,

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Speaker 1: which really it's the best song that does incorporate both names,

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Speaker 1: Molly and Kristen. Very true, but thank you Joe. If

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Speaker 1: we want to make that an unofficial competition them, feel

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Speaker 1: free to send us other songs with our names in them.

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Speaker 1: We'll take them. So if you have songs, thoughts, anything

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Speaker 1: you'd like to share. Again, it's Mom's stuff at house

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, Um and guys, big news about

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Speaker 1: our blog. You may remember there is you know, an

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Speaker 1: entire backlog of podcasts where we tell you to go

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Speaker 1: check out how to Stuff. I guess who probably went

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Speaker 1: to Hell to Stuff and you're like, Hey, this has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with your podcast. What's up with up?

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Speaker 1: Guess what big changes of foot We are going to

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Speaker 1: have a stuff Mom Never Told You blog. It will

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Speaker 1: be on the blog page at how stuff Works, and

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Speaker 1: that is where we will bring you the written extension

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Speaker 1: of this fine podcast that we co host, things, things

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00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: that we're interested in, things that strike us about gender, women,

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Speaker 1: the questions you never knew you had, and also questions

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Speaker 1: that you guys send us so we might not be

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