1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Where Were You In ninety two is a production of 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. You know I always say success is 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: the best revenge. Welcome to Where Are You In nine two, 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: a podcast in which I Your host Jason Lafier look 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: back at the major hits, one hit wonders, shocking news stories, 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: and irresistible scandals that shaped what might be the wildest, 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: most eclectic, most controversial twelve months of music effort. This week, 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: Vanessa Williams Grammy nominated smash Saved the Best for Last, 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: spent five weeks at number one on the Billboard Hot 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: one d became her signature song and remains an adult 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: contemporary staple. But it also marked a redemptive turning point 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: for the first black Miss America, whose reputation had been 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: tarnished when she gave up her title after Penthouse published 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: unauthorized nude photos of her taken before her participation in 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: the pageant. In this episode, we explore how the singer 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: actress overcame betrayal, bigot treat and public ridicool to stage 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: one of the most memorable comebacks of entertainment history. Plus, 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: Vanessa Williams herself joins us to discuss how a single 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: photo shoot and then a massive hit single changed her 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: life forever. Sometimes the Snow comes down in June. Do 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: you remember back in episode one when I declared that 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: the opening line of Sir Mix Lots hit Baby Got Back, 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: oh my God, Becky look at her butt, maybe one 24 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: of the most unforgettable opening lines in pop history. Well, 25 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: sometimes the Snow comes down in June is right up 26 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: there too. It, along with oh my God, Becky, was 27 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: certainly one of the most famous lines to come out 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: of Vanessa. Williams saved the best for last. The song 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: that that snow comes down in June line comes from 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: spent five weeks at number one that year, becoming Williams 31 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: first and only song to top the Billboard Hot one hundred. 32 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Funny coincidence. A few months later, Baby Got Back also 33 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: spent five weeks at number one on the Billboard Hot 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: one hundred, becoming Stirm Mix a Lot's first and only 35 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: song to top that chart. The lesson here, Folks, when 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: attempting to write a number one pop song, kick things 37 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: off with a doozy Well it's not quite a shocked 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: valley girl commenting on some random woman's booty. Sometimes the 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: snow comes down in June is kind of a weird 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: and treating way to start a song if you think 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: about it. What I heard it as a kid, I 42 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: was as befuddled as that Valley girl. Snow in June impossible. 43 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: Of course, now I've learned it's totally possible. It's snowed 44 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: in Colorado and at Lake Tahoe on the California Nevada 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: border just this past June. In June, heavy snow fell 46 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: in the Utah Mountains. Anyway, this isn't a damn weather report. 47 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm just saying it happens. Strange things happen, which is 48 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: what that line is about, as well as the song's 49 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: more suspicious second line. Sometimes the sun goes round the moon. 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes crazy ship happens. Sometimes life surprises us, for better 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: or for worse. Vanessa Williams knows this. She has been 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: through it, seeing her life change quite literally overnight on 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: more than a few occasions. By the time Williams ascended 54 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: to the top of the charts in she'd already had 55 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: experience taking out all the competition. In night three, she 56 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: was crowned Miss America, becoming the first black Miss America. 57 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: It was something she'd never expected. A feat she achieved 58 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: almost by accident. Then in just two months before her 59 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: reign was set to end, she'd surrender her title. After 60 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: her world was rocked by scandal. She would walk away 61 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: disgraced and devastated. How do you rebound from that kind 62 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: of public humiliation, Well, she did in a major way. 63 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: Some would say Williams come back like snow coming down 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: in June, or more so like the sun going around 65 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: the moon was a miracle, but that takes away her 66 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: agency and diminishes her talent. She climbed to the summit 67 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: and transcended the duty pageant world because she refused to 68 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: let her four fall from grace, ruin her or define her. 69 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: This is her story. Vanessa Williams was born in the 70 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: Bronx and raised in the Westchester County suburb of Millwood 71 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: by music teacher parents. She has said she never felt 72 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: beautiful growing up. In grade school, she was the only 73 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: black kidding class, which could be isolating. As an adolescent, 74 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: she struggled with pimples. Her mother, Plan Williams, instilled the 75 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: values of hard work and merit in her when she 76 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: was young. Being pretty was great, but being talented and 77 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: respected was what mattered. In the early eighties. She attended 78 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: Syracuse University, my alma mater, where she studied musical theater. 79 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: Dur Ring her sophomore year, a man named Bill Harmond, 80 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: who was on the board of the Miss Greater Syracuse pageant, 81 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: saw her performance in a school production of Swinging on 82 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: a Star and was blown away. He told one of 83 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: her friends and classmates that he thought she had the 84 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: goods to make it all the way to Miss America. 85 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: Beauty Queen was not on her list of aspirations. She 86 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: had intended to graduate with the b f A, go 87 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: to Yale for post grad and then start auditioning, but 88 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: by April of her sophomore year, the director of the 89 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: Miss Greater Syracuse pageant was practically beating down her door 90 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: to get her to audition for the pageant. She finally 91 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: sold Williams on the idea by informing her that if 92 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: she won, she'd receive a five scholarship for her junior year. 93 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: When she asked her mother for advice, she immediately told 94 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: her to do it. Later, when she called her to 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: say she'd won Miss Greater Syracuse, her mom's first response was, 96 00:05:53,920 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: that's terrific. How much money did you get in July, 97 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: she headed to the Miss New York pageant. She won 98 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: that too. Her life became a series of parades and 99 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: county fairs and rehearsals for her next stop, the Miss 100 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: America pageant. They're in Atlantic City. She'd performed Barbara streisand 101 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: slowed down melodramatic version of Happy Days or here Again 102 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: a tune Babs had sung opposite Judy Garland and a 103 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: medley of it and get Happy during in October nineteen 104 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: sixty three episode of The Judy Garland Show. So Yeah, Well, 105 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: Williams was new to the beauty queen scene. She was 106 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: a total theater geek, which she concluded might work in 107 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: her favor. Says Williams, I mean some of these girls 108 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: have been in the passion system for their lives and 109 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: their goal is to be Miss America. And I came 110 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: in from you know, side door, uh, and my goal 111 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: in life was to be on Broadway, as she recalls, 112 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: and you have no idea her two thousand twelve memoir 113 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: that she wrote with her mom quote, even as I 114 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: would glide down the runway and high heels and a swimsuit, 115 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: I would think, how did I get here? Now? How 116 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: do I justify this again. Oh yeah, scholarship money for 117 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: my junior year. You're an actress. Pretend this is another 118 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: role and smile. It worked. In September, Williams won the 119 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: title of Miss America. All she could think is the 120 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Ryanstone trro was placed on her head, was that she'd 121 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: now have to give up studying abroad in London her 122 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: junior year. But then walking the runway right after being crowned, 123 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: Williams was suddenly really proud, elated. Friends and family had 124 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: bust in to support her, and she recalls hearing her 125 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: father's clapping rising above the cheers and applause. And the 126 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: months that followed, she would tour the country, changing her 127 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: location every one to two days. She would sign autographs, 128 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: have dinner with the President and First Lady, and meet 129 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy and Mohammad Ali. Less than five months after 130 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: having one Miss Great Syracuse, twenty year old Vanessa Williams 131 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: had become the first black Miss America and the pageant 132 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: six decade history. You see, when it was first created 133 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen one as a way to attract tourists to 134 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: the Atlantic City Boardwalk, the Miss America pageant had some 135 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: explicit guidelines rule number seven, for example, stated that quote 136 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: contestants must be of good health and of the white race. 137 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: That rule wasn't abolished until nineteen fifty, but the pageant 138 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: would not include a black contestant until nineteen seventy when 139 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: Miss Iowa Cheryl Brown competed for Miss American. Nineteen. When 140 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: Williams won the title, in Shirley Chisholm, the first black 141 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: woman elected to the United States Congress, was hopeful, saying 142 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: at the time, quote, the inherent racism in America must 143 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: be diluting itself. But being the first black Miss America 144 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: would come with its burdens. Not everyone was as thrilled 145 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: for Williams, his Chisholm and her loved ones were. There 146 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: were jokes, dumb and racist ones. Days after her victory, 147 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: The Tonight Show host Danny Carson addressed it in his 148 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: opening monologue. Did you hear we have the first black 149 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: Miss America? He asked, I bet you didn't know that 150 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: Mr t was one of the judges. Williams was stunned. 151 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: A week after she took the crown, letters began arriving 152 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: at the Williams home. While her mother recalls reading thousands 153 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: of congratulatory messages. The family also received hate now. Some 154 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: deemed Williams quote unquote, not pure and therefore not worthy 155 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: of the title because of her race. One note read 156 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: quote you'll never be our miss America, and another someone 157 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: threatened to throw acid in her face. Another included the 158 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: message You're dead, bitch. Some of the letters were filled 159 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: with spit, others contained pubic care and seamen. After she 160 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: went to the police, an FBI agent taught Williams mother 161 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: how to open the envelopes with gloves in such a 162 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: way that the letters could be traced back to the centers. 163 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: Some who wrote the Williams were black, As Helen Williams recalls, 164 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: and you have no idea quote. We got letters from 165 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: black people saying we were liars, that she wasn't really black. 166 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: How could she be black with light skin and blue eyes. 167 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: We'd go to hell for our deceptions. Both of Vanessa 168 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: Williams's parents were black. Her grandparents on both sides were 169 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: also black. Others condemned Williams for having a white boyfriend. 170 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: At the time, says Vanessa Williams. To think about myself 171 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: at twenty years old, going through this criticism of me 172 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: just trying to be a junior in in college, winning 173 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: this thing overnight, having no intention of actually having this 174 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: as part of my my my career. Having to deal 175 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: with um, the not only the logistics and the skeed 176 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: dual and the importance uh and the the weight of 177 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: the situation, but then dealing with criticism. UM. That that 178 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: was I can say it hurt my feelings twitter years old, UM, 179 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: And it was hard to deal with. Her mother turned 180 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: many of the letters over to the police, but unhinged 181 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: harassers would call the William's home with death threats. Others 182 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: would show up at their door, not wanting to scare her. 183 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: While she was traveling and fulfilling her new duties, how 184 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: uncut many details from her daughter. In the South, extra 185 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: security would accompany Vanessa. Armed guards stood outside her hotel 186 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: room in Alabama. Extra measures were taken even when she 187 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: returned to Millwood in New York, which was mostly white. 188 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: Of course, it was clear to me when we had 189 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: our homecoming parade in my hometown and there was sharpshooters 190 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: on the top of the buildings, and you think, wow, 191 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, that's a lot of protection. And then you think, oh, wow, 192 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: that is a lot of protection because there are some risks. 193 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: The beauty queen perks didn't seem worth the danger, writes 194 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: Helen Williams. And you have no idea quote. We had 195 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: no idea her Miss America rain would quickly become a 196 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: reign of terror for us. We had no idea how 197 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: once it started. We couldn't wait for it to be over. 198 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: Vanessa William's reign would be over sooner than she or 199 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: her family expected. On Friday thirteenth in July, just six 200 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: weeks before her year long tenure as Miss America was 201 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: set to end, she received some startling news. She was 202 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: finishing up an interview with The New York Post when 203 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: the reporter told her they were rumblings that she'd appear 204 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: nude and Penthouse magazine. She was confused and dumbfounded. Sure enough, 205 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: about a week later, while she was signing autographs for 206 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: a crowd of young black girls who idolized her at 207 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: a Gellette event, she was told to call her lawyer 208 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: right away. The press had gotten their hands on advanced 209 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: copies of Penthouses fifteenth anniversary issue. There she was on 210 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: its cover, wearing a sparkly gown, next to comedian George Burns, 211 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: known for portraying the Man Upstairs in the movie Oh God, 212 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: and a photo she'd taken with him at his eighty 213 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: eight birthday party several months before the cover line Miss America, 214 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: Oh God, She's nude. Inside the issue, she had appeared 215 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: a lot less. The news broke fast the morning after 216 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: the Galette event and a very uncomfortable dinner with his 217 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: Exacts ship went down. Williams hotel was packed with reporters. 218 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: She and her Miss America chaperone pushed their way past 219 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: the rapid fire, questioning and flashbulbs, but the paparazzi followed 220 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: them all the way to the airport. On the plane 221 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: after takeoff, a man from CBS Knew suddenly popped up 222 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: out of nowhere with a camera, asking her for comment. 223 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: The tabloid headlines called her Mess America and Vanessa the undressa. Meanwhile, 224 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: Albert Marks, the pageant chairman, was totally disgusted and demanded 225 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: that Williams resign within me two hours. Didn't call her, 226 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: went straight to the press. He has said, quote, I've 227 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: never seen anything like these photographs. I can't even show 228 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: them to my wife. What does that even mean? I 229 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: gotta take a breath. So at this point you might 230 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: be wondering where these nude photos came from. This is 231 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm taking a breath, because so 232 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: many people suck in the story and surprise, they're all men. 233 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: A year before she became Miss America, Williams was nineteen 234 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: and back home for the summer between semesters, working as 235 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: a receptionist slash makeup artist with a local photographer. One day, 236 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: after hours, he asked her to model for him with 237 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: his friend for some quote unquote artsy black and white 238 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,479 Speaker 1: nude silhouettes. These are just for me, he said. Don't worry, 239 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: no one will know it's you. Anyway, his friend, a woman, 240 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: showed up. She and Williams had some white wine, and 241 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: then the pair took the photographer's commands and posed for 242 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: some shots. The images were intimate and erotic, and Williams 243 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: writes in her book, you have no idea. The photographer 244 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: had become a friend, She had met his wife and kids. 245 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't I trust him, she thought. Hugh Hefner, Playboy 246 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: founder and editor in chief, was offered the photos first, 247 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: but he turned them down out of respect for Williams. 248 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: The single victim, and all this was the young woman herself, 249 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: who's right to make this decision was taken away from her. 250 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: He said, if she wanted to make this kind of statement, 251 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: that would be her business. But the statement wasn't made 252 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: by her. But as Time reported, Playboy also rejected the 253 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: photos because quote it does not use what spokesman Dave 254 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: Salier's calls lesbian material. Penthouse founder editor and publisher Bob 255 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: Guccione did accept the photos, paying the photographer fifty dollars 256 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: for them. As Leslie Jay Gould, the public relations director 257 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: for Penthouse the nineties, told Esquire, Bob didn't see it 258 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: the way Heffner saw it. He thought Hefner missed out 259 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: on making a lot of money. Bob's way of thinking 260 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: was that if he didn't publish the photos of someone 261 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: else would google this guy and it will all make sense. 262 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: He used to wear a gold chain with a penis 263 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: dangling from it. Williams waited until the last hour of 264 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: those seventy two hours she'd been given to decide if 265 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: she wanted to resign. She ultimately did. Reading her speech 266 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: at a press conference on July night four, she said 267 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: the potential harm to the pageant and the deep division 268 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: that a bitter fight may cause has convinced me that 269 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: I must relinquish my title as Miss America. I feel 270 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: at this time I could expend my energies and launching 271 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: what I hope will be a successful career in the 272 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: entertainment business. Her parents knew she had made a mistake, 273 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: but didn't think she should resign. She'd gone above and 274 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: beyond her duties, making extra appearances because she had made 275 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: history with her win. Still they stood behind her. They 276 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: just wanted her to get through it and move on. 277 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Williams got to keep the crown and the money she 278 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: had already made from those appearances, but she lost her 279 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: deal with Gillette and with it, the respect of many 280 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: in the pageant community and in the black community. They 281 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: hate mail started coming again. She was a target of 282 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: ridicule for tabloids and for comedians like Joan Rivers and 283 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: Chris Rock. The mayor of Talladega, Alabama, demanded she returned 284 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: the key to the city she received when she was 285 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: Grand Marshal and its Christmas parade. Her mother wrote him 286 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: a letter in which she refused. It didn't help that 287 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: while Williams was suing Guccione for publishing the nude photos 288 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: without her consent. She had to contend with another Pinhouse 289 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: cover published just months later. That issue contained another set 290 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: of photos of her, taken that same summer with a 291 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: different photographer. In these images, she appeared in bondage gear. 292 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: She had left that shoot feeling so remorseful and uncomfortable 293 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: that she returned to the photographer's apartment with her boyfriend 294 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: at the time and refused to leave with the negatives. 295 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: After a struggle, she thought he'd surrendered all of them, 296 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: but that photographer too would sell them to Penthouse. The 297 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: cover of that second Penthouse issue, which dropped in janu 298 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: featured in another photo of Williams with burns. It's cover 299 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: line read, oh God, I did it again. Williams lawyers 300 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: informed her that her trial against Penthouse and Guccione could 301 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: drag on, that his team would dig up any dire 302 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: on her they could find. Her parents believed she had 303 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: been treated unjustly, but as teachers, they didn't have endless 304 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: funds to pay her legal fees. She knew the tabloids 305 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: would continue to dog her. As she writes, and you 306 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: have no idea quote I wanted it to be over. 307 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: What were we really winning? Anyway, I'd be getting publicity 308 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: for all the wrong reasons. I thought I'm done. She 309 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: dropped the suit lesson two years after she filed it. 310 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: The experience was painful and mortifying for Williams, the consequences 311 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: earth shattering. For years after the scandal, she'd go to 312 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: meetings or auditions and she'd feel dismissed before she even 313 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: opened her mouth, says Williams. I mean I'd walk into 314 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: a room for an audition and talking about being judge? 315 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: Can she act? Do we really want her? Is this 316 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: just for the dinner party conversation that I can say, 317 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: Oh guess what? I uh, I have Vanessa Williams coming. 318 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: Let me tell you about this audition. So I had 319 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: no idea who to trust, who was real, who really 320 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: was going to give me an opportunity, or who was 321 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: just pure folly. But she also knew she wouldn't just 322 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: recede into the background. She had been raised to push 323 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: past barriers sexist, racist or otherwise. She proved her critics 324 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: that she wasn't just a sad, dethroned beauty queen or 325 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: a victim. You have no idea who I am? And 326 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: what I can do, she recalls thinking in her memoir, 327 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: one day the dust will settle and you'll see what 328 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: I am made of. Up next, after the break, we 329 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: look at how Williams rose above the shame and backlash 330 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: to launch a successful singing and acting career and become 331 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: the most famous Miss America We've ever had. The year 332 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: was Vanessa. Williams had been struggling to move past her 333 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: pageant controversy and realize her dream of making it on Broadway. 334 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: So the advice of her manager, Raman Hervey, who for 335 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: a time was also her husband, she decided to pursue 336 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: a recording career through a musical director of an off 337 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 1: Broadway project you've been involved in. She snagged a gig 338 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: singing backup on two songs for Parliament Funkadelics George Clinton. 339 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: After having worked with the legend, she was able to 340 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: boost her credit. Singers with musical theater backgrounds were usually 341 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: a turn off for record companies. She met At Eckstein, 342 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: general manager of Wing Records, a small division of PolyGram, 343 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: who instantly took to her. He'd worked under the tutlage 344 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: of Quincy Jones, so she was in good hands. Williams 345 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: released her debut album, The Right Stuff in Its first 346 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: two singles were successful on the R and B charts, 347 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: but it's third, the sacks laced ballad Dreaming, was a 348 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: hit on the Billboard Hot one, peaking at number eight. 349 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: Her music career seemed to be taking off a blessing 350 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: since she knew she had a lot to prove as 351 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: a disgraced beauty queen turned aspiring pop star. For her 352 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: next lp X sign would push Williams into new terrain. 353 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: The R and B fair from The Right Stuff had 354 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: been mostly popular with black audiences, but like his mentor 355 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: Quincy Jones had done with acts like Michael Jackson and 356 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: Lionel Richie, he wanted to help Williams quote unquote, crossover 357 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: and attract white listeners to her second album, The Comfort Zone, 358 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: came out in August. It's lead single, the dance pop, 359 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: Knew Jack swing inflected running Back to You, went to 360 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: number one on the Hot R and B Hip Hop 361 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: Songs chart and number eighteen on the Hot one hundred. 362 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: It's second single, the title Track, was also an R 363 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: and B hit, but it only made it to number 364 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: sixty two on the Hot one hundred. The Comfort Zones. 365 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: Third single, however, would completely change the course of William's career. 366 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: Save the Best for Last began as an afterthought in 367 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: Phil Goldston, who had penned songs for Celendian and Share, 368 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: and his songwriting partner John Lynde, who had worked on 369 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: Madonna's Crazy for You, were in Los Angeles crafting a 370 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 1: track they envisioned for Steve Perry. Both of them had 371 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: been successful, but they had families and bills to pay, 372 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: and they needed their next hip. During a break from 373 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: the would be Steve Perry tune, Goldston started messing around 374 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: on his dinky little keyboard with what would eventually become 375 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: the opening lick of Save the Best for Last. Lynn's 376 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: ears perked up. He wanted to build on it, says Goldston. 377 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: In twenty seven minutes, we wrote almost all of the 378 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: music of the song. When we took that little break, 379 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: John said, well, you know, what's the title of this thing? 380 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: So I went through this little black book and I'm 381 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: just going through this list of two or whatever number 382 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: it was at that time, of handwritten concepts, scraps, actual titles. 383 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: He landed on Saved the Best for Last. Lynn liked it. 384 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: It fit with the arrangement they'd whipped up. At the 385 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: end of the night, Lynn asked Goldston what they do 386 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: with the song, which they would were for to as 387 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: their Broadway scrap. Based on the old school nature of 388 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: the thing, he suggested Golson take it to Wendy Waldman, 389 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: who had been a folk rock singer in the nineteen 390 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: seventies and written for the likes of Judy Collins, Bett 391 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: Midler and Reba McEntire, to get some help with the lyrics. 392 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: Ghlston agreed, but he lived in New York and Waldman 393 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: was in Nashville, so we had no idea when you 394 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: get around to showing it to her. After a record 395 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: he produced was rejected by a label, Golson was moping 396 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: around the house when his wife suggested he get out 397 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: of town and take his first trip to Nashville. He 398 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: called Waldman, who loved the idea, and they chose a weekend. 399 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: He called Lynn and told him the news, and he said, well, 400 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: don't forget to take that little scrap with you. And 401 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: I said, what a little scrap? And he said that 402 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: when we were working on Save the Best for something, 403 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: And I said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I'll 404 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: take that one out. So I found the tape with 405 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: that I don't put it in my bag, and I 406 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: brought it with me. I didn't even remember it. Three 407 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: days into working with a nine month pregnant Walman in Nashville, 408 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: he played her the quote unquote scrap. She thought it 409 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: was fantastic. She asked Goldston what the title saved the 410 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: best for last ment? And I said, well, to me, 411 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: that title is probably bittersweet and ironic in a way. 412 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: And she said, what do you mean. I said, well, 413 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: just when I thought that everything was really going well, 414 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: you left me. She looked at me. She said, you're crazy. 415 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: It's not about that at all. And Walman's interpretation the 416 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: title was referring to someone who thought their love interest 417 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: didn't love them, only to discover at last that they did. 418 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: I said, oh, do you mean like a moon in 419 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: June song? She said, that's right. Goldston goes on to 420 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: explain what a moon and June song is. Some songwriters, 421 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: particularly of my generation, use the term moon in June 422 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: song to refer to a relatively uh simple, not simplistic, 423 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: but simple song in the Tin Panaley tradition, with precise 424 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: rhymes were possible. Moon and June and um a certain 425 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: almost sweetness to it. Golston says he didn't realize until 426 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: quite some time later that by characterizing the track that 427 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: way he had inspired its memorable opening lines. And then 428 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: one of us, neither of us for members, who said 429 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: the first line, sometimes the snow comes down in June, 430 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: and the other said, sometimes this sun goes around the moon. 431 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: So there was the moon in June, just in the reverse, 432 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: and we were often running. Gholston returned to New York 433 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: thinking that saved the Bus for last was the weakest 434 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: link of the batch of songs he'd worked on with Waldman, 435 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: but both his wife and five year old son really 436 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: responded to it. He considered this a sign, so he 437 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: got to work producing a demo and enlisted Walman to 438 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: sing it. They and Lynn thought it had big commercial potential. 439 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: We had the song out as in pitching the song 440 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: to three major artists who we really thought were the 441 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: right call for this, and the good news for all 442 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: of us is that all three passed. The three singers 443 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: who turned it down Bette Midler, Barbara Streisand and Whitney Houston. 444 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: When at Eckstein from William's label sent Waldman's demo to her. 445 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: Williams instantly liked it. Eckstein asked Galston Inland if she 446 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: could record it, and they decided to give it a shot. 447 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: Eckstein paired Williams with producer Keith Thomas, best known for 448 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: his work with gospel titans B. B and C. C. Winans. 449 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: He also produced Amy Grant hit Baby Baby, William's Food 450 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: of Thomas's studio and Franklin, Tennessee twenty miles from Nashville 451 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: to record Save the Bust for Last and four other 452 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: songs for the comfort Zone. She recalls him giving her 453 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: a bag of potato chips before she started to lay 454 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: down her vocals. He claimed the oil and salt gave 455 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: his singers voice as an extra. Given the fate of 456 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: the song, he might have been onto something. Save the 457 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: Best for Last was released as a single in January, 458 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: more than three years after Golston Inland started writing it. 459 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: By March of that year, it had soared to number 460 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: one on the Boboard Hot one hundred, where it would 461 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: find its comfort zone, staying there for five consecutive weeks. 462 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: It also rose to the top spot on both the 463 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: R and B and Adult Contemporary charts. It would become 464 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: the number four single of Our Beloved Baby Got Back 465 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: was number two. The track would also earn Grammy nominations 466 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: for Best Song, Best Record, and Best Pop Vocal Performance Female. 467 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: The single The Comfort Zone would snag a NAM for 468 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: Best R and B Vocal Performance Female. The album The 469 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: Comfort Zone would go multi platinum. Before Saved the Best 470 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: for Last became a massive hit, Golson's manager had taken 471 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: him out to lunch at a hot dog stand and 472 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: told him that, given his dry spell and finances, he 473 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: might want to consider writing jingles. By spring of his 474 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: career had started to turn around. He recalls hearing Saved 475 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 1: the Best for Last for the first time one weekend 476 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: in a path mark in Yonkers, New York, when he 477 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: was grocery shopping with his seven year old son and 478 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: four year old daughter. Unshaven and wearing an old overcoat, 479 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: his hair unwashed. He was stooping to the bottom shelf 480 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: in an aisle to find the low priced cans of 481 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: crushed tomatoes. When the song came blaring from the sound system. 482 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: His kids began screaming into light. He Lyndon Waldman had 483 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: experienced success before, but nothing like this. It was particularly 484 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: affirming because it was a song that defied the current marketplace. 485 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: Save the Best for Last was of an anomal among 486 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: the other number one hits, Yes, a handful of ballads 487 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: top the charts that year, Boys Too, Mend's and of 488 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: the Road, George Michael and Elton John's Don't let the 489 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: Sun Go Down on Me, Mariah Carey's remake of the 490 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: Jackson five song I'll Be There, Whitney Houston's remake of 491 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: Dolly Partons I Will Always Love You. But most of 492 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: these songs are about rejection or heartache. Save the Best 493 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: for Last is about someone being friend zoned. The singer 494 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: has watched their close pal and love interests get dumped. 495 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,239 Speaker 1: They've listened as that pal has confided in them, and 496 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: they've hoped all along that that pal would finally come 497 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: to their senses and realize the one they should be 498 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: with has been right under their nose all along. Then, 499 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: as the lyrics go, just when I thought our chance 500 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: had passed, you go and Save the Best for Last, 501 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: the pall does in fact love them. The pair are 502 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: going to give it a whirl. The song is one 503 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: of those rare ballads with a happy ending. It's essentially 504 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: a rom com set to twinkly am radio keyboards, swelling 505 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: strings and whispy acoustic guitars. Yeah, it's basically my best 506 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: friend's wedding if Julia Roberts finally bagged Dermot. Mulrooney. Goldstone 507 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: was right to initially call Save the Bus for Last 508 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: a Broadway scrap. To me, it's always felt a little 509 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: less like a standard pop song and more like a 510 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: show tune, which is not a knock. Williams sounds wonderful 511 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: on it, composed, restrained, dignified, and then just enough of 512 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: and even a little annoyed with her new boo. Sorry 513 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: to beaton, Babs, but she was the perfect choice for it. 514 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: Williams was thirty three weeks pregnant with her third child 515 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: when she performed Saved the Bus for Last at the 516 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: three Grammys. She sat on a stool to sing it. 517 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: Though she didn't take home any awards at night, she 518 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: certainly felt like a winner and her mind she had 519 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: finally arrived. Her peers, the voting academy, record buyers, the 520 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: general public. Now they too had put the Miss America 521 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: scan behind her. As she writes in her memoir, I 522 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: wasn't an outsider anymore. Of course, this was only the beginning. 523 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: Williams continued recording music after the Comfort Zone. Her Top 524 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: five single, Colors of the Wind from the soundtrack for 525 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: the Disney film Pocahanas, even won the Academy Award for 526 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: Best Original Song. But she'd arguably become more famous for 527 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: her acting, starting with Arnold Schwarzinger in the n action 528 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: flip Eraser, lead to more roles in the movie Soul Food, 529 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: and later as the Icy Anna win tur inspired fashion 530 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: editor Willimina Slater on the hit ABC show Ugly Betty, 531 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: for which she'd earned three Emmy nominations. She'd also land 532 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: recurring turns in series like Desperate Housewives and The Good Wife, 533 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: and she did wind up fulfilling her long time goal 534 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: of making it on Broadway, taking over for Cheetah Rivera 535 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: as a lead and Kiss of the Spider Woman and 536 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: playing the Witch, and the two thousand two revival of 537 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: Stephen Sondheime's Into the Woods, which earned her a Tony nomination. 538 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: Williams recently wrapped her run and the Tony nominated two 539 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: two Broadway show Potus, and now forty years after she 540 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: went before that panel of judges in Atlantic City. She's 541 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: the judge of her own on the Paramount plus Drag 542 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: Queen Singing competition Queen of the Universe. Up next after 543 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: the break, Vanessa Williams joins us to talk about the 544 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: fallout after the Penthouse scandal, how she regained control of 545 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: her image and the legacy of Saved the Best for Last. 546 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Where were You in ninety two? We've 547 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: been discussing Vanessa Williams and her number one smash Saved 548 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: the Best for Last. Now it's time to hear from 549 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: Williams herself. So where were you in ninety two? Physically mentally, 550 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: uh In, I was living in Los Angeles in Plaia 551 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: del Ray. I was a mother of two girls and 552 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: um traveling the world promoting The Comfort Zone, which was 553 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: my second studio album. I did not have big, gigantic 554 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: producers working with me. That we're Jimmy Jammin, Terry Lewis 555 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: and Keith Thomas for one, who did say The Best 556 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: for Last? He was making the transition from working in 557 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: the gospel Christian range area with BBNCC one and I 558 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: did most of the album in Franklin, Tennessee. So you 559 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: you write in the book, when you're discussing reaching these 560 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 1: this crossroads. Um, to make the Comfort Zone your second album, 561 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: you say I still had so much to prove. What 562 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: was your strategy to have a successful sophomore effort? Well, 563 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: what I mean about proving? Uh, you know, I always 564 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: say success is the best revenge. You just never know 565 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: what life has in store for you. So, um, proving 566 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: myself meant that I was judged as a beauty queen 567 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: after I won, I was judged as a scandalous beauty 568 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: queen after you know my reign, and uh, people judge 569 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: that I've been in show after show. I was a 570 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: singer and a dancer and actor, a musician. So to 571 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: be judged, um, and to have your talent and your 572 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: intellect negated by being a beauty queen and labeled a 573 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 1: scandalous beauty queen. I was always trying to prove myself 574 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: every opportunity I had. It was like, I'm going to 575 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: prove to you that I can act. I'm going to 576 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: prove to you that I can sing. I'm going to 577 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: prove to you that I can dance. That my talent 578 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: is something that has opened doors for me. But it's 579 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: not put upon on. It's something that I naturally have 580 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: and have worked on. And then I'm sure a lot 581 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: of people thought, Okay, well she got lucky with a 582 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: one hit. Well okay dreaming, okay, maybe two hits. And 583 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: then you know, a conference zone came and it ticked 584 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: off the box from not only taking me from the 585 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: R and B world but also crossing over into the 586 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: pop world. Um, and again there are new people that 587 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: I get to judge you and like, who's singing this song? 588 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: Oh it's the Forum as America that's singing this Oh 589 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: can she do it again? So I think that we 590 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: all in life are always trying to prove who we are, 591 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: and we're always judged, and instead of fighting that and 592 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: getting resentful, you just realize that that's part of life. 593 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: I believe it was at Extein who said, hey, like, 594 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: just f y, I, if you're going to go in 595 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: the pop domain, you may leave some of your black 596 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: listeners behind, who who have come for the R and 597 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: B and the soul And you've got to straddle this. Now, 598 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 1: how are you able to strike the balance and keep 599 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,919 Speaker 1: getting new fans, keep keep your your dedicated fan base. Well, 600 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: I think my dedicated fan base loved me not only 601 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: for the the hits that that that I had off 602 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: the right stuff, but before because I was a survivor 603 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: and I symbolize the great comeback. So it was more 604 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: for my my grits and my integrity and the fact 605 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: that I was going to overcome. And there's a you know, 606 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: there are people in your lives that are celebrities or 607 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: that you know their struggles and their paths in life, 608 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: and you love them for sticking out and proving that 609 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: through all of it. You got a chance to win 610 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: on the comfort zone. After having success, I think Ed 611 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: got a chance to talk to people that were actually 612 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 1: willing to give me songs. ED knew that, Okay, now 613 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: we've proven that she's here to stay, and that opened 614 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: more doors for people to take me Legitimately. You talk 615 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: about being judging. Of course, you and or the mis 616 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: American Pageant, which is inherently all about judging. You've got 617 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: a panel of judges. But it didn't stop there. You win. 618 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: I think one of the more distrussing passages in in 619 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: the book, you write of the backlash you received not 620 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: only from the white community, but from from the black community. 621 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: I've had people when I was crowned, say, I never 622 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: thought I'd seen it in my lifetime, which is very 623 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: similar to you know what we said when we when 624 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: Obama first became president. But there were people that felt 625 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't black enough, which again is being judged and 626 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: assuming that you know somebody's experience, and of course it 627 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: hurts your feelings, and you say, isn't this enough? And 628 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,479 Speaker 1: does this discredit even this momentous occasion when you can't 629 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: even acknowledge the fact that we've made history because of 630 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: the way that I look the year three that I won, 631 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: there were four women of color, which was the most 632 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 1: they had ever had, four black women in one Latino women, 633 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: so uh contestants. And I had a white boyfriend at 634 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: the time. And again, you know, anger from some black 635 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 1: men that felt that, you know, I having a white 636 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,479 Speaker 1: boyfriend was saying that I didn't love black men, which 637 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: was you know, again another criticism which I was completely 638 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: um having to combat. It was a lot. And again 639 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: I looked back at my twenty year old self, twenty 640 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: one year old self, having been a mother of four children, 641 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 1: watching them all go through the same age range, and 642 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 1: I marvel at how I got through it. The letters 643 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: that your mother received that that she writes about and 644 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: in the book that was just very jarring. I can't 645 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: believe in a way, you know. I read it and 646 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Wow, maybe social media backlash is a 647 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: good thing, because people can't send you letters with some 648 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: of the contents in the envelopes that your mother had to, 649 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, unearthed. My parents lived in the house that 650 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: I grew up in. We had a number that you 651 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: get back in the phone book. It was listed so 652 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: anyone could dial up my house. My parents would pick 653 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: up we didn't have caller I D. My parents would 654 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: pick up the you know, the rotary phone, and they 655 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: would get up these evil messages that they were accosted 656 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: by about threats to my life, about horrible racial um 657 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: slurs that were held at them, and they had to 658 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: they had to harbor it or or or protect me 659 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: from it to allow me to continue to do my 660 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: job as Miss America and travel the States every other day, 661 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: appearance after appearance and not freak me out. But they 662 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: would say, oh, you're going to Chicago, be careful. Oh 663 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: you're going down to Alabama, watch out. Oh you know, 664 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,919 Speaker 1: So they would give me these gentle hints to try 665 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: to protect me but not have me freak out because 666 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: the job was part enough. At some point you just 667 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: have to hand it over and surrender to um life 668 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: and do the best you can, but also be wearing 669 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: when the Penthouse photos surfaced. Towards the end of your reign, 670 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 1: um is Miss America. You were given seventy two hours 671 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: to resign by the pageant. Uh, and you basically waited 672 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: until the last hour. You know, you're working with your publicists. Um. 673 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: And in that last hours when you decided, Okay, I 674 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: think I will resign. What spurred that decision at the 675 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: essentially the the not the eleventh hour, but the seventy 676 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: one hour, there were a big faction of people that 677 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: wanted me to fight for the crown. Basically they said, 678 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: you have uh, you superseded your your obligations. There was 679 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: no reason to resign and UM. So even when I 680 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: when I reached my press conference, there were people with signs, uh, 681 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: you know, saying keep the crown, don't resign, and and 682 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,879 Speaker 1: and activated activated um. But at that point I had 683 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: a month Togo, a month and a couple of weeks 684 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: of you know, vacation that was allotted, and I wanted 685 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: to get on with my life, you know. And uh 686 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: it was tremendously you know, humiliating and painful and um 687 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: and and stressful. Uh. And again I think back of 688 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: the years old incredibly stressful, but I wanted to move on. 689 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: And and I had had a brilliant term you know, 690 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,919 Speaker 1: term year rain whatever. Um. I had had so many 691 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: opportunities and done the best of my abilities and was 692 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,399 Speaker 1: very proud of the work that I had done. I'm 693 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: looking at the cover of the Comfort Zone today and 694 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, wow, like this is her emerging. She's wet, 695 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: she's sultry, and I'm wondering, what were the conversations like 696 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: with you trying to of course put the past behind you, 697 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 1: put the scandal of the penthouse photos and Miss America 698 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 1: behind you, but also you know, you were wanted to 699 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: come across as a You made that very clear, like 700 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: I don't want wimpy ballads, I don't want to be 701 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: pleading with men. I want to be a very confident woman. 702 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: So how did you how did you navigate that there 703 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: were so many perceptions of my image. Uh, Miss America 704 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: is very straight laced, scandalized. Miss America was very scandalous. 705 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: Is she's soul full enough, is she's is she too 706 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: middle of the road? So I wanted to make sure 707 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: that my image was strong. Um. Again, I was middle 708 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: twenties provocative. I was still dancing in in grade shape. Uh. 709 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: And also UM, confident and and approachable. You, of course 710 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: UH scored big would say the best for last UM 711 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: and you you felt something you know you you write 712 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: in the book I got chills from from hearing the demo. 713 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 1: But you have no idea it was gonna be the 714 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: sort of hit that it was. When did you know 715 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: that it was massive? When I recorded it in UM 716 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: Nashville or Franklin, Tennessee with with Keith. I remember recording it. 717 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: We're like, we're going to get this in one take. 718 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: And when you and back then there's no auto tunes. 719 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 1: So you hear someone's real voice, the real timbre, the 720 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: real breaths. When you hear the purity of a voice 721 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,919 Speaker 1: making mistakes, you're not being actually completely correct digitally. UM. 722 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: There's a magic there because you think that you're hearing 723 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: it for the first time, and you think that you're 724 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,800 Speaker 1: you're you're listening to it to actually somebody perform it. 725 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 1: So I knew that we were going to get it 726 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: in one take. That was our mission. And UM and 727 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: I knew that. Um Keith and myself and and Ed 728 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: and my husband at the time was my manager. We 729 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: knew that we had we had something special. I had 730 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: no idea it would last in the number one spot 731 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,839 Speaker 1: for so long. Did you do it in one take? 732 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: Then you did it in one take? Yeah? Yeah? Then 733 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: people say, well, that can't be true. So every time 734 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: I performed it after that, it was like, oh, let's 735 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: see if you know, there's some tricks in that bag. 736 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,760 Speaker 1: Um you know so uh. And to this day people 737 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: when I was saying it, people say, oh my god, 738 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:34,919 Speaker 1: you sound just like the record. I said, that's that's 739 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: good because I sang it on the record. I love it. 740 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 1: I think that the Grammys nine Grammys when you performed, 741 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 1: I think you were thirty three weeks pregnant. Yeah, I 742 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: think I read not only can I do it in 743 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:53,399 Speaker 1: one take? Three weeks pregnant one day? If you could 744 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: sum it up, what do you think the legacy of 745 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: Save the Bus for Last is? Well, what I the 746 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: constant feedback I get from people that approach me, UM, 747 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: is that song changed my life or that was our 748 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: wedding song because that was our story. And what I 749 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: think my superpower is as a performer, Uh, I tap 750 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: into my acting ability. So before I approached the mic, 751 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: what is my what is my before? And what am 752 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: I bringing? What story do I want to tell? And 753 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,879 Speaker 1: it's not vocal acrobatics and how loud, how how many 754 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: riffs I can do. It's like, let me bring you 755 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,760 Speaker 1: into this moment and let me paint a picture. And 756 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: that's what the consistent um feedback is from Saved the 757 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: Best for Last. It's that human connection with being ignored, 758 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,919 Speaker 1: being there all the time, and you finally see who 759 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: I am and you know, whether it's getting married or 760 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: or being best friends, you finally see it. And also 761 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 1: the melody I think you know Wendy and Phil and 762 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: John on because melody is that's that haunting thing, that's 763 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: the earworm, that's the thing that you can sing along 764 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: to and you can't forget it. But it also creates 765 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: that visceral reaction in your body that takes you back 766 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: to the first time that you heard it, or takes 767 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: you back to that first relationship that you connected with. 768 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: So I think that's the magic, much like Saved the 769 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,960 Speaker 1: best for last. This story has a happy ending. In 770 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen, Williams was tapped to be head judge 771 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 1: of the Miss America pageant. During the ceremony, Sam Haskell, 772 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: the Miss America CEO at the time, joined her on 773 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: stage to offer a public may Koopa, I want to 774 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: apologize for anything that was said or done that made 775 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: you feel any less than the Miss America you are 776 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,839 Speaker 1: and the Miss of America you always will be. He said. 777 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: Nice gesture, but she hardly needed it in a sense. 778 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: Being pressured to give up that title of Miss America 779 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: back in the community four may have been one of 780 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: the best things that ever happened to Williams, and her 781 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,919 Speaker 1: deciding to resign may have been one of the best 782 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: decisions she ever made. It took guts and was sort 783 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 1: of badass, and it led her exactly where she needed 784 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: to be. If she felt betrayed and humiliated by the scandal, 785 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: it only made her want to fight harder, to put 786 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,040 Speaker 1: the whole mess, including a victory she never really wanted, 787 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,399 Speaker 1: behind her and become something bigger, and she did. How 788 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: many Miss America's can you name? I admit this is 789 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 1: not my world, but I can name one today more 790 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: than ever, beauty pageants seemed like a degrading, sexist, hypocritical 791 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: thing of a distant past. Be kind of naked but 792 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,719 Speaker 1: not too naked. Be sexy but not sexual. Be confident 793 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: but also cute and coy, smile more. Even if Miss 794 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,840 Speaker 1: America ditched at swimsuit competition in two eighteen and announced 795 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 1: it would no longer judge contestants on their physical appearance, 796 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: sure audiences today would much rather watch RuPaul's Drag Race, 797 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: on which Williams has also served as a judge. A 798 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: wildly popular competition show turned total empire. It is at 799 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 1: least partly a commentary on the ridiculous standards of beauty 800 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: to which many women still feel beholden, and it's also 801 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,880 Speaker 1: a satire of the artifice and goofy, over the top 802 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,919 Speaker 1: camp nature of pageants. Just think of all those Miss 803 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: Universe memes that have been making the rounds recently. The 804 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:52,080 Speaker 1: jig is up. Meanwhile, Save the Best for Last lives on, 805 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: says one of its writers, Phil Goldston. So last year 806 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,239 Speaker 1: I decided to do a search and see how many 807 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: recording there are. I've saved the Best for Last and 808 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: they're more than eight out there in the marketplace, a 809 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,759 Speaker 1: wedding classic, go to drag number, the stuff of a 810 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: Delilah listeners dreams the song has become something bigger than 811 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: what it was ever intended to be. That's because the 812 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,720 Speaker 1: story of Save the Best for Last is the story 813 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: of Vanessa Williams. I think that for those familiar with 814 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: Vanessa's story, it is not only a comeback story. It's 815 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: a story of triumph for a person unfairly disparaged to 816 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:43,799 Speaker 1: mean by everything from sexism to racism and a lot 817 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,920 Speaker 1: in between. Where Say the Best for Last is concerned. 818 00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: What I think is particularly meaningful is that the song 819 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,920 Speaker 1: is about the surprises that can come your way in 820 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: life if you're open and if you embrace them, the 821 00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: glory that can be yours and the happiness that can 822 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,800 Speaker 1: be yours. And I think that's what happened with Vanessa, 823 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: and that's most certainly what happened to three of us 824 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 1: who wrote the song. Where Were You in ninety two 825 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: was a production of I Heart Radio. The executive producers 826 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: are Noel Brown and Jordan run Tug. The show was researched, 827 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: written and hosted by me Jason Laffier, with editing and 828 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: sound design by Michael Alder June. If you like what 829 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 1: you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review. For 830 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, check out the I 831 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 832 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:20,880 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,