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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Bradstone, Max Chafkin, you speak to CEOs all the time

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Speaker 2: in your capacity as editor of Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Is there

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Speaker 2: a vibe shift? Are the CEOs feeling more down than usual? Max?

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Speaker 3: They're tired.

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Speaker 4: The job of CEO has become exhausting due to the

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Speaker 4: chaos of tariffs and the war, and oil shocks and

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Speaker 4: of course AI and dealing with this White House. The

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Speaker 4: job of CEO, despite the large paycheck, is becoming stressful.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know workers could become tired. That's very interesting, Brad.

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Speaker 2: We all have our limits from Bloomberg BusinessWeek. This is

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Speaker 2: everybody's business. I'm Max Chafkin, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm Bradstone and for Stacy Vanox Smith, and this is

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Speaker 4: what we're going to get into this week.

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Speaker 2: Two stories that look at both the inside and the outside,

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Speaker 2: the up and the down of being a CEO. Now,

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Speaker 2: for we have the business of weight loss, it is huge,

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Speaker 2: that's the upside. ELI Lily has catapulted to a trillion

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Speaker 2: dollar valuation.

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Speaker 4: And while these CEOs are managing their eyewatering profits, well,

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Speaker 4: look at what their workers think.

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Speaker 3: About those that run their companies.

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Speaker 2: News Flash folks, it's not that good. Brad. You had

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Speaker 2: your hands all over this big cover story that just

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Speaker 2: went out as we're recording this. It's about Eli Lilly,

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Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical company that has basically just been on a roll,

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Speaker 2: thanks largely to the popularity of its blockbuster GLP one drug,

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Speaker 2: zep Bound. Can you just just real quick explain why

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Speaker 2: this story right now?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, first of all, Max, I don't know

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Speaker 4: if you've consulted your Bloomberg terminal recently, but Eli Lilly

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Speaker 4: is worth over a trillion dollars. It's plugged directly into

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Speaker 4: my brain, right, so you might want to look that

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Speaker 4: at that and look, I mean that is largely on

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Speaker 4: the strength of it's anti obesity drugs zebound de Moncharro

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Speaker 4: for diabetes. But there's a reason why pharmaceutical companies aren't

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Speaker 4: valued this highly. Patents expire, competition comes in prices fall,

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Speaker 4: and so Madison Muller, my colleague, and I visited Eli

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Speaker 4: Lilly's headquarters in Indianapolis to talk to Dave Rix, the CEO,

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Speaker 4: to ask him how he was going to extend this

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Speaker 4: amazing run into the future.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe you mentioned, Madison Muller that's such a

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Speaker 2: coincidence because we have her in the studio with us

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 5: Hey Madison, Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Madison is a health reporter at Bloomberg. Madison, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: everybody's business. I'm very excited to be here. All right.

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Speaker 2: How did Lily wind up in this position? Because I

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Speaker 2: think when most people and I think, what I went

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Speaker 2: into in my own mind with a question going to

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Speaker 2: the story was like, I've heard of ozempic. You would

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Speaker 2: imagine that the maker of ozempic, Novodorsk. I guess ozempic.

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Speaker 2: The other one is called we Go be right, lots

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Speaker 2: of them now, but you would think, Okay, that's going

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Speaker 2: to be the one to win this market. That has

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Speaker 2: not happened. It's this other company, Lily, this American pharmaceutical

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Speaker 2: company that has, like Brad said, the mega market share.

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Speaker 2: It's even getting you know, name recognition and things like that.

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Speaker 2: What happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting in the world of pharma,

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Speaker 1: having the first mover advantage is not always what ends

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Speaker 1: up making someone win in the end.

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Speaker 5: So Lily kind of came from behind.

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Speaker 1: We say that they fell backward into the obesity drug business.

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Speaker 1: Lily and Novo have been rivals for like a century.

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Speaker 1: Both of them were making insulin at the very beginning,

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Speaker 1: so they have this long storied right.

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Speaker 2: In being a GLP one. Right, it's not.

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Speaker 1: A geo pepize, but it is. It is a peptide exactly,

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Speaker 1: that is correct. They've been competing for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: One would iterate the other, one, you know, would come next,

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Speaker 1: sort of out innovate each other for years and years

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Speaker 1: and years in this road of making better insulins, better

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Speaker 1: drugs for diabetics.

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Speaker 5: Both of them in.

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Speaker 1: Like the late eighties early nineties stumbled into GLP one's.

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Speaker 1: GLP one is a gut hormone that these drugs mimic.

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Speaker 1: You know, when this gut hormone is activated, it makes

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Speaker 1: you less hungry, it makes you feel satisfied, makes you

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Speaker 1: eat less. And that's why it's been such a great

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Speaker 1: option for losing weight. I mean, both companies sort of

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Speaker 1: didn't believe in weight loss, didn't believe obesity was a disease.

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Speaker 1: But there were more resources at Novo that were dedicated

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Speaker 1: to this whole GLP one thing, whereas at Lily it

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Speaker 1: sort of fell out of scope. So Novo was able

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Speaker 1: to forge ahead and they were able to bring the

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Speaker 1: first weight loss GLP one to the market, and they

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Speaker 1: really were able to have that first mover advantage. However,

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Speaker 1: Lily came sort of from behind. They were the underdogs.

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Speaker 1: They were like, we've got to get back in this

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Speaker 1: and they went really fast and were able to develop

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Speaker 1: a drug that was actually a little bit more effective

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Speaker 1: than what Nova was doing.

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Speaker 4: Madison, I think you put your finger on something that's

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Speaker 4: very important, which is that Eli Lilly really came up

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Speaker 4: with just a better medicine. And part of the story

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Speaker 4: is telling we tell the tale of Dave Rix's right

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Speaker 4: hand guy basically at Eli Lilly, Dan Skavronsky, the chief

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Speaker 4: science officer, and how he really discovered in clinical trials

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Speaker 4: that trizeppetites were performing better than semaglue tides.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was shortly after Dave Rix became CEO and

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Speaker 1: he was like, we need to come up with something

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Speaker 1: better than what Novo's doing. He sent his top scientist,

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Speaker 1: Dan Skavronsky, hunting for the best science, the most promising science,

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Speaker 1: and pretty quickly found in early trials that this drug

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Speaker 1: was making people lose so much weight they were dropping

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Speaker 1: out and they were like something is, something interesting is

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Speaker 1: happening here, and we need to move as fast as

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Speaker 1: we possibly can to get this into trials and get

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Speaker 1: this to everyone.

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Speaker 2: I want to get to Dave Rix, the CEO, in

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Speaker 2: a second, but before we go there, just like stepping back.

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Speaker 2: This has been such a huge shift. I mean, Madison,

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Speaker 2: you kind of hint at it that there was a

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Speaker 2: time where we didn't regard OBCD as a disease. Now

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Speaker 2: we do. Brat you mentioned a trillion dollar market cap.

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Speaker 2: I assume that's partly an assessment of the category's promise, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are a lot of investors who see

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Speaker 2: this as a game changer, you know, in ways that

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Speaker 2: go far beyond kind of where we are today, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I mean a large part of that is confidence in

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Speaker 1: the leadership at Lily, in Dave Rix's ability to steer

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Speaker 1: this company, to get in with the Trump administration to

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Speaker 1: invest in things like AI. People really think that Lily

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Speaker 1: is doing something special.

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Speaker 4: And it's a bet on the potential of this category.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if twelve or thirteen percent of Americans are

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Speaker 4: on GLP once right now, you know, forty percent of

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Speaker 4: this country is probably classified as obese. So they see,

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Speaker 4: you know, analyst firms, investors see like a long runway

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Speaker 4: in the US and around the world for this category

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Speaker 4: of drugs.

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Speaker 2: You brought up Trump Madison. There is an interesting political

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Speaker 2: angle here. Dave Rix, Republican political donor, has had what

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Speaker 2: feels like a closeish relationship with Trump and as we

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Speaker 2: record this stat News, which is like a trade magazine

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Speaker 2: for the drug industry, reported that the Lily has this

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Speaker 2: new drug, it's forthcoming. They reported that a very special

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Speaker 2: seventy nine year old who was very well, very connected,

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Speaker 2: high profile person within the US government obtained compassionate use

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Speaker 2: access to the hot new new Eli Lilly drug. I

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Speaker 2: think there's a lot of speculation who that very prominent

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Speaker 2: seventy nine year old might be, because Donald Trump, the

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Speaker 2: president just turned eighty, was seventy nine at the time.

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Speaker 2: But like, what is that relationship between the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: and Dave Rix's CEO of Lily and how has that

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Speaker 2: helped the company? Like what have they kind of gotten

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Speaker 2: out of this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we have seen across industries

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Speaker 1: that you really have to have a good relationship with

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Speaker 1: Trump and these CEOs have to come to the table.

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Speaker 1: Trump wants deals, he wants big, splashy announcements. He wants

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Speaker 1: to have these close relationships with CEOs, and Davis has

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Speaker 1: been able to do that. I mean, he spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time in Washington over the first half of

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Speaker 1: the year and after the Trump administration sort of came

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Speaker 1: back in. Trump calls him out by name often says

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Speaker 1: that he's the hottest CEO.

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Speaker 2: He's not a CEO. Is that a comment on his

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Speaker 2: good looks or the stock?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 5: I think both.

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Speaker 1: He's also said that he looks much younger than his age.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there is a little bit of a romance

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Speaker 1: going on there for sure, and so that has benefited Lily,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lily and Novo. To Nova's credit, they were

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Speaker 1: able to strike this deal with the Trump administration to

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Speaker 1: expand access to obesity drugs for patients with Medicare, so

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Speaker 1: people sixty five and older. Trump has also said that

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Speaker 1: Lily wouldn't be subject to tariffs because they were building

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Speaker 1: in the US.

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Speaker 5: Like it's just it's whether or not they're actually.

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Speaker 1: Like getting specific thing is out of this relationship with Trump.

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Speaker 1: They do have a close, very close relationship Daverix and Trump,

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Speaker 1: and I think they're kind of able to call each

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Speaker 1: other about various things, which goes a long way in

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Speaker 1: this administration.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's interesting to look at this from a

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Speaker 4: kind of public policy perspective. I mean, we make a

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Speaker 4: kind of deal with the pharma industry. We say, you're

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Speaker 4: going to have what is it, Madison, fifteen or twenty

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Speaker 4: years of a monopoly on your drug. You've made the

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Speaker 4: massive investments in developing a bunch of drugs and trying

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Speaker 4: to get a couple promising ones through clinical trials. So

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Speaker 4: we're going to give you a monopoly on that. But

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Speaker 4: then it expires, Then competition opens, the prices come down,

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Speaker 4: you lose that asset. It's like if Amazon were to

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Speaker 4: have to burn down all its warehouses after ten years

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Speaker 4: and start over. And that's the compromise we make with

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Speaker 4: these companies, and that's why it's so hard to maintain

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Speaker 4: hegemony in the farmer market. Well, the arrival of this

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Speaker 4: peptides market, the fact that there are labs in China

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Speaker 4: that are maybe working off, you know, scientific studies and

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Speaker 4: copying like the formula for retitud trites and just selling them.

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Speaker 4: Before Eli Lilly has even had a chance to profit

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Speaker 4: from its massive investment. It really does question the entire

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Speaker 4: industry and throw its economics and that fundamental agreement into question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a massive threat to like the pharmaceutical innovation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these companies spend billions of dollars and many, many,

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Speaker 1: many years developing these products. For them to get ripped

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Speaker 1: off before they're even able to reap any profits on

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Speaker 1: them is not a great situation.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, a lot of them are doctors,

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Speaker 4: they're scientists. I think they are genuinely appalled at the

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Speaker 4: fact that people are buying these drugs over the internet

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Speaker 4: with these crazy names and just injecting themselves.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of doctors are shocked to see

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Speaker 1: patients showing up in their office. I was talking to

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Speaker 1: a doctor recently who said that someone came in with

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Speaker 1: a ziploc bag that just had like three syringes in it,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, here's my ozebic And they

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Speaker 1: were like, what what is the that's how do you

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Speaker 1: know what's in there? And there's just no way to know.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing.

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Speaker 2: All right. So Lily obviously is going to try to

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Speaker 2: make as many versions of these you know, glp ones

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Speaker 2: and weight loss drugs as they can and make as

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Speaker 2: much money off as as they have patents. You and

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Speaker 2: Brad talked to Dave Rix about, you know, where the

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Speaker 2: company's future is, and I found it so interesting because

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Speaker 2: it's all of these categories that feel kind of similar

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Speaker 2: to the weight loss thing, where it's like, you know, beauty,

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Speaker 2: it's stuff that could be conceivably consumerized psychedelics, like these

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Speaker 2: kind of like drugs that don't seem to hit maybe

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Speaker 2: conventional medical problems with conventional medical solutions, but that also

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Speaker 2: maybe are super promising for the Eli Lilly scientific machine

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Speaker 2: or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Lily right now is just like we're

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Speaker 1: gonna do everything. We have the money to do everything.

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Speaker 1: Let's also look at these other areas that are maybe

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Speaker 1: not super conventional but that we know patients are interested

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Speaker 1: in because of this whole PEPTI boom. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: Lily is like they're super big in neuroscience, they're super

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Speaker 1: big in cancer, they're super big in immunology. But now

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Speaker 1: they're also starting to think about, Okay, we've gotten so

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Speaker 1: close to our patients because of this whole GLP one's thing,

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Speaker 1: what else do they want? Like, what other things do

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Speaker 1: they want to make them sleep better or look better

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Speaker 1: or perform better. And so they're starting to look sort

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Speaker 1: of at more of those consumer categories. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as Brad knows very well, with the tech companies, also,

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Speaker 1: there's this sort of like obsession at Lily to be

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Speaker 1: more like a tech company, to move faster, but to

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Speaker 1: also have like more of a relationship like apple Wood

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Speaker 1: with its patients or customers and sort of invoke that

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Speaker 1: same level of brand loyalty that those companies kind of have.

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Speaker 3: And I'll add one other thing.

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Speaker 4: I think that they're trying to use this tremendous success

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Speaker 4: and the accompanying kind of bank account that they have

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Speaker 4: to take a higher probability bet. So they're making a

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Speaker 4: lot of acquisitions of drugs that and Madison correct me

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Speaker 4: if I'm getting the terms wrong, are farther along and

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Speaker 4: the development cycle like are in phase two trials. So

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Speaker 4: they're looking for sure bets to kind of fill out

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Speaker 4: their pipeline so that when their patents on the GLP

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Speaker 4: once do expire, they've got other winners lined up. Now,

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Speaker 4: nobody in pharma has ever pulled that off, including Eli

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Speaker 4: Lilly in the past. Coming off the strength of drugs

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Speaker 4: like prozac. So it's still a kind of long shot, bet,

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Speaker 4: but this is what they're trying to do. They're trying

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Speaker 4: to defeat the historic boom and bus cycles of the

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Speaker 4: farm industry exactly.

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Speaker 1: It'll be really interesting to see what happens, because, like

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Speaker 1: Brad said, no one really has been able to pull

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Speaker 1: this off yet, and so you know, if anyone is

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Speaker 1: able to be in that position to do something different

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Speaker 1: right now, it's Lily because they have just such a

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Speaker 1: massive windfall from all the success of their obesity drugs.

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Speaker 2: All right, Madison, thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, it was fun.

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Speaker 3: Max.

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Speaker 4: I want you to answer this delicately. Have you ever

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Speaker 4: have you ever had a bad boss?

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Speaker 2: I've had bad bosses, but my current boss is the best.

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Speaker 4: But not everybody feels that way. And so we sent

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Speaker 4: our producers Jasmine JT. Green and Stacy Wong out under

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Speaker 4: the streets of New York to get a pulse on

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Speaker 4: what people think about CEOs these days.

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Speaker 7: I'm curious, like, what are your thoughts particularly around like

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Speaker 7: CEOs and like management.

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Speaker 8: I would say that the reason people know don't like

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Speaker 8: CEOs and that CEOs in general are like starting to

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Speaker 8: be afraid of having that job is because people know

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Speaker 8: now that the only way to be a CEO of

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Speaker 8: a large company is to like manipulate and essentially scam

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Speaker 8: your workers with terrible labor, just labor environments, terrible pay

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Speaker 8: oftentimes with terrible hours, on top of just bad conditions

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Speaker 8: and workplaces.

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Speaker 6: It just feels a little bit weird, you know, because

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Speaker 6: you're employing people, you're using their services and profit half

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Speaker 6: of that. You need to charge a higher price to

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Speaker 6: wherever you are selling you to. It felt a little

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Speaker 6: bit exploitative. So I downsize. I don't want to be

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Speaker 6: see you. I guess you need to manage people. I

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Speaker 6: don't want that on my burden. I don't want to.

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Speaker 3: Beat that person.

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Speaker 9: Yes, I would want to be one. N I am one.

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Speaker 9: I own a dance school in Brooklyn. It's a ballet

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Speaker 9: school because I'm a vallet dancer.

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Speaker 7: So what is it like being like the owner and

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Speaker 7: running of a space.

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Speaker 9: It's like a double edged sword. I think it's very, very,

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Speaker 9: very stressful. It's like you got to wear so many

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Speaker 9: hats and it's very worth it though, it's very worthy.

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Speaker 10: I am my own employee. I like the freedom of

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Speaker 10: being able to come out and work the hours that

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Speaker 10: work for me and being able to create stuff that

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Speaker 10: is aligned with who I am and my values. I

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Speaker 10: think starting it was the hardest part. Maintaining it is

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Speaker 10: just staying educated. At the end of the day.

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Speaker 7: Is it worse now than it was, like, let's say, five,

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Speaker 7: ten years ago.

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Speaker 8: I feel like it's always been I feel like it's

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Speaker 8: always been bad. But people were more complacent ten le

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Speaker 8: likes ten years ago because honestly, it was probably it

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Speaker 8: was most likely we could do to the economy being better.

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Speaker 8: Because the economy is so bad now people are looking

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Speaker 8: at the billion dollar companies and saying, why are you

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Speaker 8: not helping us? We gave you all this profit and

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Speaker 8: now you just keep upping prices.

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Speaker 4: Okay, interesting accountability coming for CEOs.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 4: We are joined by Bloomberg opinion columnist Beth Kowit, who

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Speaker 4: also listened in on these New Yorkers.

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Speaker 3: Beth, what did you think about what you just heard?

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Speaker 11: I mean, I think that tracks with what we're seeing

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Speaker 11: in the polling. People are their opinions of capitalism of

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Speaker 11: business are declining, and I think that that is hurting

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Speaker 11: the image of CEOs who are running these companies.

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Speaker 2: For sure, we can get into what that means for

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Speaker 2: CEOs and the fact that CEOs are now it's harder

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Speaker 2: to be a CEO. Maybe arguably we can. We talked

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Speaker 2: about that, but before we get there, where do you

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Speaker 2: see this shift? I'm both of you. I'm actually curious

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Speaker 2: where is this shift coming from?

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Speaker 11: Maybe that you start, Yeah, I think a big piece

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Speaker 11: of it is rising inequality. Right we see some of

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Speaker 11: these enormous pay packages, and on the other end, we

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Speaker 11: have people who are really struggling, and I think I

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Speaker 11: think that's visceral and people are feeling that, and I

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Speaker 11: think this is why we're seeing threats against CEOs increase.

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Speaker 11: You know, I just CEOs definitely they have an image

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Speaker 11: problem right now.

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Speaker 3: For sure. I thought it was so interesting.

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Speaker 4: You know, Bethew wrote the story for us being a

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Speaker 4: CEO Today's stinks except for the salary in the in

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Speaker 4: the July issue of Business Week, and we promoted the

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Speaker 4: story on social media and the comments.

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Speaker 3: To our Instagram post We're so rich.

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Speaker 4: I just want to read a few world's smallest violin

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Speaker 4: one person rates just no sympathy.

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Speaker 2: So are we expected?

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Speaker 4: Are we expected to feel empathy for the suddenly stressful

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Speaker 4: flight of the people who are running our companies, running

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Speaker 4: the economy.

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Speaker 11: So I don't think so okay, so this is not

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Speaker 11: a boohoo story, right, I think again, they make a

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Speaker 11: lot of money, they know what they're taking on. But

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Speaker 11: I think the bigger point here is that the job

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Speaker 11: has gotten more challenging and that has implications for who

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Speaker 11: wants to do it. And I think that's the reason

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Speaker 11: that we should all care, not even so much that

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Speaker 11: this job has gotten harder. I think you know, they're compensated,

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Speaker 11: they're paid well, but that it's going to mean that

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Speaker 11: the pool of candidates is slimming down, and that that

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Speaker 11: really does matter when we think about who do you

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Speaker 11: want to be your boss.

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Speaker 2: So to me, there are sort of two categories, maybe three,

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Speaker 2: in the way that this job got harder, and one

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Speaker 2: of them applies to pretty much every worker. So in

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Speaker 2: your story, there are a lot of CEOs saying it's

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Speaker 2: a twenty four to seven job right now, and like,

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Speaker 2: these are things that affect everyone, and CEOs have to

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Speaker 2: deal with the fact that if they embarrass themselves publicly,

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Speaker 2: it could affect them professionally. Again, that is a thing

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Speaker 2: that affects and I think that may be part of

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Speaker 2: the reason that some people reacted to the story the

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Speaker 2: way they did, because because you're saying, oh, being a

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Speaker 2: CEO has gotten really hard, but working being a white

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Speaker 2: collar worker has gotten harder since the pandemic as well.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I think that's a fair point.

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Speaker 11: I just think that the stakes are so much higher

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Speaker 11: when you are at the top. CEOs lose their jobs

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Speaker 11: faster than they ever have. Boards are I have a

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Speaker 11: lot less tolerance for mistakes than they used to. And

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Speaker 11: maybe again you can say that for any boss, but

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Speaker 11: I do think when you're operating at that level that

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Speaker 11: the stakes, the pressure is higher.

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Speaker 2: How much bet do you think this is political? We

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Speaker 2: have a CEO president or a president who you know

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Speaker 2: at times has been CEO and who you know, really

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Speaker 2: identifies himself his public image as a as a manager.

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Speaker 2: He's the you're fired guy. He also Donald Trump, you know,

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Speaker 2: was elected with this kind of unprecedented a lot. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's this really close alliance between the business world and

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration. And so I do wonder if some

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Speaker 2: of this has to do with politics where where people

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Speaker 2: are sort of especially left leaning people, younger people. We

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Speaker 2: heard a lot of young voices in that segment are

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Speaker 2: sort of taking their political feelings and putting them on

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Speaker 2: senior managers in a way they might not have like

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Speaker 2: during the Obama.

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Speaker 5: Er say, I think that's true.

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Speaker 11: I do think that's true, and I think that I've

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Speaker 11: written about this quite a bit, but I do think

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Speaker 11: we have seen a real reversal here in terms of

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Speaker 11: how CEOs respond to cultural issues. They've stopped speaking up,

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Speaker 11: They've you know, I think that the complete one eighty

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Speaker 11: there has made people question what do these CEOs really

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Speaker 11: stand for?

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Speaker 5: What do these companies really stand for?

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Speaker 4: It's interesting also, I mean in some ways, like CEOs

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Speaker 4: are taking themselves out of the political discussion publicly, but

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Speaker 4: they're also expected to court the White House in a

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Speaker 4: way that they haven't in the past. You know, Trump

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Speaker 4: is a king maker. It's incumbent the on these companies

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Speaker 4: to kind of woo this president. They can't rely on

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Speaker 4: their lobbyists anymore. They got to work the halls of power. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: a lot of pressure in that recard too well.

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Speaker 2: And then the other side of this coin, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the reason they're in Washington all the time is that

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Speaker 2: we have a very unstable policy environment. So like CEOs

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Speaker 2: are always Historically they probably wouldn't say a public because

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Speaker 2: they don't want to get side by sideways with Trump.

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Speaker 2: But like the general message from the business world from

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Speaker 2: as long as I've been a journalist, just like you know,

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Speaker 2: over twenty years, is like, we want stability, we don't

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Speaker 2: want chifts in policy. And if there's one thing about

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration, it's that it's been very volatile. You

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Speaker 2: have a giant tariff one day and then we get

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Speaker 2: rid of the tariff. You have super low oil prices

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Speaker 2: one day, and now all of a sudden, we're fighting

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Speaker 2: a war that causes straight up horror moves the most

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Speaker 2: you know, the most important you know, thruway for petroleum

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Speaker 2: to be closed. So the CEOs, in addition to having

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Speaker 2: to deal with the fact that the public and their

439
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: workers may feel differently, just have to deal with policy

440
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: changes like that. That's a that's a headache, that's that's

441
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: not something that has anything to do with public opinion.

442
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 11: Right, and that means there's it's impossible to do long

443
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 11: term planning. That was something that I that's something I've

444
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 11: heard pretty regularly is that you know a lot of

445
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 11: these executives that's what they're trained to do, that's what

446
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 11: they are good at. And how do you come up

447
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 11: with a five to ten year plan when things are

448
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 11: changing so much day to day. I think it's I

449
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 11: think that is an enormous struggle and.

450
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 4: Key to that uncertainty has to be ai right And

451
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 4: is it this productivity and efficiency boosting wave that's going

452
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 4: to accelerate your growth? And if so, what happens to

453
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 4: your employees? How do you manage growth with what the

454
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: market is expecting? And in terms of layoffs as well?

455
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 2: Do you all remember the like, it wasn't that long

456
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 2: ago when I think CEOs were having this kind of

457
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: really positive time, right, the girl Boss era, the rise

458
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 2: and grind, Like there was a time in the not

459
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: so distant past where it was kind of cool to

460
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: be a CEO, which it's it's kind of strange to

461
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 2: think about today.

462
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think it's funny because I think, especially if

463
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 11: you look back to you know, Trump one point zero,

464
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 11: I think CEOs were viewed as a counterweight to the administration.

465
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 11: They would push back, they would stand up for what

466
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 11: they felt was wrong. And I think we're just you know,

467
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 11: it's now, it's just get along. I think that really

468
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 11: sort of encapsulates that shift you're talking about, right, I

469
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 11: think they stood up for something then and now we

470
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 11: just don't really see that anymore to nearly the same frequency.

471
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: But let's be.

472
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 3: Real, is anybody really deferring their ambition? Has?

473
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess we could probably come up with

474
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 4: a couple of examples, but it feels like, you know,

475
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 4: it's still the top spot. Ambition is still real, people

476
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 4: are still human, CEO really being CEO really become an attractive.

477
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 11: So I was a little skeptical about this too, but

478
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 11: I talked to a number of executive recruiters who told

479
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 11: me that they have heard from several candidates that this

480
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 11: is the rethinking whether they want this job. Last year,

481
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 11: we had this really interesting example of senior executive at

482
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 11: JP Morgan explicitly say she did not want the CEO job.

483
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 11: We had three very senior women leave CEO jobs to

484
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 11: go work at open AI. And again, you can say

485
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 11: that's for a lot of different reasons, right, an enormous

486
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 11: opportunity for a.

487
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: Job, exploding valuation, maybe more money, right.

488
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 11: And I think I think maybe this idea of ambition

489
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 11: is shifting, particularly for women, which is something I've written about,

490
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 11: but it's maybe more about impact than it is about title.

491
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 11: And I think people are looking at this job and saying,

492
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 11: maybe there are ways I can have more impact without

493
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 11: having to take on this burden.

494
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: There's only one way to fix this best. I've got

495
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: to pay CEOs more.

496
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 6: I mean.

497
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 2: Enough. How long before we get the vibe shift in

498
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: the other direction? I mean, or is that or do

499
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: you think that's so far off that it's not even

500
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: worth talking about?

501
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 5: Oh, that's a good one.

502
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: There's gonna be uh, you know, eventually, like political climate

503
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 2: will change and we'll be back in the what's the

504
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: Sheryl Sandberg book called Lean in the Lean era two

505
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: point zero will come back and we'll be back to,

506
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 2: you know, feeling positive about being a manager.

507
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 11: I think maybe that could happen. But I do think

508
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 11: the skepticism from employees will last longer. I think they've

509
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 11: been seeing a different side of corporate America than than

510
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 11: they expected. I think some of the things that you know,

511
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 11: it feels disingenuous now.

512
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I think this whole sort of rise of populism,

513
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: they're going to be CEOs and marketers who figure out

514
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: how to kind of harness this who get to be

515
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: the champions of the working class or whatever? And I

516
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 2: think we'll see that, Uh, we'll see companies do that.

517
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 2: We're obviously seeing like political leaders do that. I mean

518
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: they'll take advantage of this in some way I imagine.

519
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 11: Oh for sure. Yeah, I think that's right, the diminishing

520
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 11: trust and institute. I think you're right that we are

521
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 11: going to see CEO's capitalize on.

522
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 5: This at some point.

523
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: Beth, thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me stick around.

524
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: We're going to talk underrated stories, and we'd love for

525
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: you to join and weigh in on both of these.

526
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 5: Great love to.

527
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 2: Brad. It's time for underrated stories. Beth is here, she

528
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: is listening. She doesn't know what we're going to say,

529
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: but I'm sure I'm ready with the hot take.

530
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 4: What do you got from? Okay, Well, you guys are

531
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 4: New Yorkers. I'm over here on the West coast, but

532
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 4: I'm going to select a New York underrated story. It was,

533
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 4: of course, the event primaries this week. Zoron Mamdani, mayor

534
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 4: in New York City, had a spectacular week. Three candidates

535
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 4: for the House of Representatives that he endorsed one two

536
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: of them were Democratic Socialists, and I just think, you know,

537
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 4: it says a lot about Mam Donnie's political popularity his movement,

538
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: But I think the underrated story here is the surprising

539
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 4: popularity of the democratic socialist agenda. Issues like strengthening unions,

540
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 4: a federal jobs guarantee, the Green New Deal is back

541
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 4: in play, immigration rights, of course, hostility to Israel, and

542
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 4: support of Palestine. All of these things I think portend

543
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 4: a very interesting twenty twenty eight election cycle.

544
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 5: I think that's so true.

545
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 11: And actually one of them, one of the winners, was

546
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 11: in my district, so it was interesting to watch that

547
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 11: play out.

548
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing for me, and this comes back

549
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: to best story, like do you all remember where kind

550
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: of some of the most influential business leaders were on

551
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: Mom Donnie's political chances, like as recently as I don't know,

552
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: nine months ago. I mean, you had some of the

553
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: smartest minds in business basically saying this guy is a joke,

554
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: his supporters are stupid. Jamie Diamond said something along those lines,

555
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: and man, they really got it wrong. I mean they

556
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: really really miss this one.

557
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 11: Yeah, And I think to your point, it does show

558
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 11: that they made have taken their finger off the post

559
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 11: a little bit if you think that these candidates are

560
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 11: not popular if they don't have traction with a large

561
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 11: swath of the population.

562
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 4: President Trump likes to say America, who will never be

563
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 4: a communist country, and he likes to sort of, you know,

564
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 4: generalize and sweep this movement under one big rug. But

565
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, democratic socialism is something that

566
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 4: will have to be kind of contended with.

567
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: Well. I think also it's interesting Trump of course sort

568
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: of famously has embraced Mam Donnie, so he in certain

569
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: ways has been much savvier about this than many of

570
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: you know, many of his friends and in the business community.

571
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: He even even as Mandannie criticizes him, he's he's aware.

572
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: And I think that's partly because Trump and Mom Donnie

573
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: have a lot in common, not not just in the

574
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: sense that they are both good at, you know, on

575
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: social media and that they're savvy politicians, but they're both

576
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: kind of tapping into some of the same stuff. As

577
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: much as Trump is a you know, an ally of

578
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: the business world, he's he's very much been able to

579
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: channel some of these anti boss feelings.

580
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: He recognizes game.

581
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: Exactly. All right, I've got an underrated story for the

582
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: two of you, and I know you're probably following the

583
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: drama around the reflecting pool. There are there are more

584
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: bigger problems to worry about. But I have just been

585
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: delighted with this story about the reflecting pool in Washington

586
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: that they are trying to get ready for the big

587
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: Sequis centennial. Let's just give a listen to how the

588
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: how the news is covering this.

589
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 12: We're out here at the reflecting pool. There are the

590
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 12: usual collection of warning joggers. Lucky them who get to

591
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 12: show up here in far more casual clothing. I did

592
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 12: a lapper on the pool a little earlier to check

593
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 12: on things. It is definitely cleaner. There is far less algae.

594
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 12: The ducks are out swimming.

595
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 3: They are alive.

596
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: Are you two following this?

597
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 8: Oh?

598
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 5: I love the Yeah the duck wellness check there.

599
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: Love it well because I think several ducks have been No,

600
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's unusual. Like I mean, some

601
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: ducks die of natural cause. I don't know if the

602
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: reflecting pool is the cause, but it is also concerning.

603
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: I love the story.

604
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 4: I mean, if you look back in sort of like

605
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 4: recent presidential history, there are certain moments that become metaphors.

606
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 4: Gerald Ford stumbling on the stairs, George Bush vomiting on

607
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 4: the Japanese Prime Minister. And what we have here is

608
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 4: a fight over what could be the defining metaphor of

609
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 4: the Trump administration. And he is savvy enough to know it,

610
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: and so he is fighting tooth and nail with all

611
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 4: of the tools at his disposal to try to change

612
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: the narrative from the obvious, which is that you know,

613
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: he has inadvertently created this kind of oleaginous swamp in

614
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 4: the middle of Washington, d C.

615
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: Brad, you are talking about the metaphor. For me, the

616
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: actual mechanics of this story have been it's like the

617
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: best part because I feel like it's so relatable. Like

618
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: Trump is going through basically the personal drama that many

619
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: suburban homeowners face, which is that the algae in their pool.

620
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: Caring for a pool is very difficult, as my father

621
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: can attest. I've never see my dad like so relate

622
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: to Trump as he talked about talking about this algae issue.

623
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 5: You know, So, is this just a move to seem relatable?

624
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: Maybe? And you know, I've spent a bunch of time

625
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: going down the like pool Reddit rabbit hole to try

626
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: to figure out, you know, what Trump is doing, does

627
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: it make any sense? I mean, clearly painting is not

628
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: going to fix the algae problem. The other thing that's

629
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: funny is that Trump himself has offered some sort of

630
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: practical ideas for what may be going wrong. Let's let's

631
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: give a listen to.

632
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 12: That we still can't find is that alleged three hundred

633
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 12: and fifty foot gash along the floor of the pool

634
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 12: that the President says is there.

635
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: Who would think that somebody would go into a pool

636
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: and take a knife and start cutting it?

637
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 12: But do you approof of that that they use the Knight?

638
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: Do you have photos or videos? Well, let's put it

639
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: this way. When you have a three hundred and fifty

640
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: I think it's three fifty three hundred and fifty foot

641
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: slid from one.

642
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 8: End to the other, do you think that's proved?

643
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: So he's referring to the fact that the paint on

644
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: the bottom of the pool that they just painted as

645
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: and peeling. There's also apparently a long gash in the

646
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: some foam. He the Trump administration has alleged that that's

647
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: you know, essentially Antifa, you know, some some activists uh

648
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 2: defacing the pool in the Parks Department. I think has

649
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: arrested six people. But doesn't it seem possible that, you know,

650
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: it could have just been that this could just be

651
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: like a natural failure at the bottom of the pool.

652
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 11: I don't know about you guys, but it makes me

653
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 11: feel good that my president is so focused on the

654
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 11: important issues. I mean, this is this is really what

655
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 11: we should what we should be talking about.

656
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: Okay. My counter contrarian take here is like the green

657
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: wasn't that bad? Like, why didn't they do it? Looked nice?

658
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: It just looked a little a little green.

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00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 5: Ris pretend it was supposed to be green?

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00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: Max.

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00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: I love how you're approaching this. This is about This

662
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: is not about the details. This is about the memes, okay.

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00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: And the memes are rich and they're damaging. My favorite

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00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: one is, uh, there's one of Yoda lifting the X

665
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 4: Wing from the you know, like like at the swamp

666
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 4: planet in Star Wars, out from the pool and he

667
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 4: knows these things are politically damaging.

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00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: The thing I need is a smell check. Does the

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00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: algae does it smell okay? Or is it starting to

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00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: give an odor? Because I think once you get an

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00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: odor that starts to become concerned.

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00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 3: It looks smelly.

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00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: It does look smelly, Beth, thank you. You will have

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00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: to come back and join us on another episode to

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00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: talk more about pool care, algae.

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00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 5: And metaphors that thank you. I would love to These

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00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 5: are things I have deep opinions about.

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00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: This show is produced by Jasmine J. T. Green and

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00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: Stacy Wong. Mangus Hendrickson is our supervising producer, Sam Rogich,

680
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: Handle's engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checks. Special thanks to

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00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: Jeff Muskus, Julia Rubin, Angel Recchio, and Maria Ling. If

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00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: you have a minute, please rate and review the show.

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00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: It'll mean a lot to us. And if you have

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00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: a story that should be our business, email us at

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00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's everybody with an S

686
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot net. Thank you for listening. We will

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00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: see you. Sweet sum