1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Sager. Christian 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: what comes to mind when I mentioned far old children? Well, 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: I read a book when I was a young adult, 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: book called My Side of the Mountain. Have you ever 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: read that? It was one of my favorite books when 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: I was a kid, and it was about a kid 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: who was twelve years old, I think, and and he 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: just decided he lived in New York City, and he 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: decided the aid of the city, so he went to 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: the forest upstate where his grandparents had property, and proceeded 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: to live in a tree. And his best friends were 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: a hawk named Fearful and a weasel named the Baron. 15 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: And I thought that was just the best thing ever, 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: So I thought, Faraoh kid when I when I read that, 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: it sound like a good deal. Yeah, it's it turns 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: out not so much. Yeah. I had a similar experience 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: with this topic because because early on, of course, you know, 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: you're supposed to the Jungle Book, you know, and if 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: itures of Mogli or or of course another similar tale 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: um where the wild things are the little boy runs 23 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: off to live this animalistic existence with monsters in a 24 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: far away land. Um. And it's a it's an appealing 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 1: idea that plays into like the you know, the best 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: deal nature of children and the wildness of children, and 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: also you know, kind of the purity of them. But yeah, 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: when you actually start looking into the history and science 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: of feral children, it's a it's a far more depressing reality. 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that we have had with us, uh, 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: at least mythologically for in human culture, for probably as 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: long as humans have been around, the idea of the 33 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: feral outsider that doesn't belong in civilization, but we try to. 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: We try to fix them and bring them back and 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: train teach them how to live, right. Yeah, And it 36 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: plays into just basic ruminations on what it means to 37 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: be human, like what if you remove culture and or 38 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: language from a human and what are they? Are they 39 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: truly human anymore? And and so yeah, it's an idea 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: that we've continued to come back to time and time again, 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: and we will continue to and both romantic and um, 42 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: darkly realistic manners. Yes, certainly, I think um. One of 43 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: the things that we discovered when we first started researching 44 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: feral children for this episode was that there's distinctly two 45 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: different types of feral children. There is the wild child, 46 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: which is what you and I were both thinking of, 47 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: the Mowgli type for the romantic idea even yeah, exactly, 48 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: which you know some some child who at a young 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: age gets lost or is abandoned and lives in the 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: wild and is probably raised by animals, right, uh, And 51 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: then this is not one that I had considered. But 52 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: this is the more realistic is instances of child abuse, 53 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: where there are children who have been confined or uh 54 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: possibly abused by their parents and isolated in such a 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: way that it has the same effect as if they 56 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: grew up in the wild, cases of severe neglect and 57 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: abuse that achieved the same ends of growing up without culture, 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: because there's just no culture, no language thrust upon them, exactly. 59 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: And those are the ones that we have definitive examples 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: of in the last thirty forty years. We have two 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: that we'll talk about in these episodes. But that's one 62 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: of the reasons that I had previously looked into doing 63 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: this topic and quickly got too depressed it to keep going. 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: So this is a this time we nailed it. I 65 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: think though, well, I mean, I do think it's probably 66 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: worth us mentioning up top that this is dark subject matter, 67 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: but I think it's worth visiting. And one of the 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: reasons why is because of exactly what you said that 69 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: the scientific and philosophical communities keep coming back to this 70 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: idea of what divides human beings from animals, and the 71 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: myth or the reality of a feral child is like 72 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: it seems to be their best way of conceiving that difference, right. Um. 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: In some of the early you know, sort of medieval 74 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: examples that we'll talk about today, there was an idea 75 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: that a feral child was humanity in a quote raw state, Uh. 76 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: In one example, they actually categorized feral children as an 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: entirely different species and Homo sapiens. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, 78 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: it's the idea of the the wild child, the feral child. 79 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: It just I mean, if you're just around children, you 80 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: you see it in them. Um. Yeah, So, as we 81 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: go through this episode, we're going to talk about some 82 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: of these specific cases that are generally rather depressing. We're gonna, 83 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: you know, so you're gonna have to roll with those 84 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: if you if you listen to it to the episode 85 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: but we're going to do our best to to obviously 86 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: not make fun, but to keep it light and to 87 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: engage in our usual interaction. Yeah. And uh, and there's 88 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of content just about the power 89 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: of language, how we acquire language. So you know, it's 90 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: also not going to be just you know, an hour 91 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: plus block of addressing abuse cases. So let's define up 92 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: top though, a feral child. Okay, So like probably like us, 93 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: many people listening out there have an idea of them 94 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: as a sort of you know, wild child type. The 95 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: sort of definition that is that a feral child is 96 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: one who from an early age has lived an extended 97 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: period of isolation from human contact. Doesn't have to be 98 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: in a forest. In some cases, it's they've been locked 99 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: in a room and never let out right. Um, Typically 100 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: what we see is that they are impaired, and they're 101 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: lacking the cognitive abilities and the communications skills and especially 102 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: the socialization that we come to expect from human beings. Uh. 103 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: And they almost always have an impaired language ability and 104 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: mental function. And that's why we're gonna focus. We're gonna 105 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: later in the episode, we're gonna really like hone in 106 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: on language how it develops. So some of the key 107 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: myths though that that most people were A lot of 108 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: people are gonna be familiar with um are as follows. 109 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: The first big one, of course, is Romulus and Remus. 110 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: You've probably seen statues of this, like the twin the 111 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: twin infants suckled by the she wolf, right uh And 112 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna blow through the whole myth here, 113 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: but basically you have twin brothers, uh, the sons of 114 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: the god Mars and the priestess Rahea Sylvia. They're bannon 115 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: at birth, which you know is essentially a form of infanticide. 116 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: You leave them out in the wilderness and let nature 117 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: take its course. I think in the myth there's something 118 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: it's some relative of the kings who's afraid that they're 119 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: going to usurp the king or something exactly. It's the 120 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: fear that like, basically, it's their destiny to rule, and 121 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: they try to to interfere with this destiny by just 122 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: throwing them away in the woods. But they're suckled by 123 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: a she wolf, they're fed by a woodpecker. Then they're 124 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: raised by shepherds and they eventually rise to power. They 125 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: learn of their origins, overthrow, there would be killer and 126 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: end up a founding Rome. So it's a tale of 127 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: destiny weaving its way through plots and circumstances, and it's 128 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: in in kind of a you know, an early examination 129 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: of nature and nurture. Like they have it is in 130 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: their nature to rule, to be the king, but they're 131 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: the nurturing environment has been taken from them. Are they 132 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: still the thing that they were born to be? Or 133 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 1: have they become something else? Yeah, there's probably that idea 134 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: in there too that since they're they're half God, that 135 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: that's why the animals helped raise them, right, is that 136 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: like they sensed the royal urgency of keeping these children alive. 137 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: Interesting side note, one of those statutes that you mentioned 138 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: is just outside of where we live here in Atlanta, Rome, Georgia, 139 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, in allegiance with the city named after, constructed 140 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: such a statue. So I believe in downtown Rome there's 141 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: one of those I forget what the wolf's name, but 142 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: that that giant wolf, and there's a statue of the 143 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: two little infants kind of reaching up and trying to 144 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: drink from her. But Rome, Georgia not founded by feral children. 145 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: Unconfirmed There is another example sort of again, this is 146 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: one that we don't know if it's true or not, 147 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: but that's sort of a myth, the feral child. And 148 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: this is the more medieval one, Valentine and Orson, and 149 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: unlike Romulus and Remus, they're separated. So the deal was 150 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: was that they were European twins, so vague, we don't 151 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: even know where in Europe there just European. Uh, they 152 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: were lost in a forest. Valentine was found, however, and 153 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: brought back to civilization where Orson was not. So you 154 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: had that dichotomy, right, And Orson was supposedly raised by bears, 155 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: and he became this wild man who just terrorized all 156 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: the villages and abducted women and children. And so I 157 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: suppose that was, you know, a cautionary tale of the 158 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: difference between man and animal or or what would happen 159 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: to man without civilization. Yeah, I mean we see that 160 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: in so many beast man monster man myths throughout history 161 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: to just trying to figure out what is what's the 162 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: line between man and beast and and that's also exploring 163 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: in the idea of the feral child. And of course 164 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: there's Mowgli and Peter Pan. You know, I don't think 165 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: we really need to go into those too much because 166 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: you know, they're mostly known from those Disney movies. I'm 167 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: sure the the actual Mowgli and Peter Pan from the 168 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: literature that they're those movies are based on, are significantly different, 169 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: but the idea is essentially the same. Right. Yeah, if 170 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: you're like me and you've seen Jungle Book, you know, 171 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: thousand times in the last couple of years, you you 172 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: really don't need a lesson in what happens. But raised 173 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: by wolves, it winds up living with humans again and 174 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: everything's okay. So we've got a few examples of feral 175 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: children that I don't want to say that this is 176 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: well documented because some of these go back quite a 177 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: ways and there's a little bit of I think fictionalization 178 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: in some of the accounts. And the first one would be, 179 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: and this is sort of one of the most famous 180 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: of feral children is wild Peter and the idea, uh well, 181 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: at least the story goes is that it was July 182 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: of seventy four and outside of Hamlin, Germany, a naked 183 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: twelve year old boy stumbled out of the forest and 184 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: people saw him. He only ate grass and leaves, and 185 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: whenever people tried to approach him, he would run up 186 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: into the trees and hide. He totally couldn't speak, He 187 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: had no language capacity whatsoever. Um. People assumed that he 188 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: was a feral child who was raised in the woods 189 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: by animals. It was later speculated, like like much later 190 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: by a German anthropologist named Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, that Peter 191 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: was actually a mentally disabled child who had just been 192 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: abandoned by somebody within the village or somebody nearby, and 193 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: he'd only been out there for maybe less than a 194 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: week before he was discovered by other people. Um. Apparently, 195 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: some of the accounts indicate that Peter had a defect 196 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: with his tongue, which made it difficult for him to speak. 197 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: So the idea here being was that, like, you know, 198 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: potentially Peter wasn't what we think of as a wild 199 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: child ferald child at all. He might have just been, 200 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: you know, a mentally disabled child who was abandoned by 201 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: his parents, but then was was refound and his story 202 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: is remarkable but also somewhat sad, so brace yourselves. Um. 203 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: He somehow went from being discovered in Germany two living 204 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: with King George the first in England. The literature doesn't 205 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: really fill the gaps in on that one, so I'm 206 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: curious what goes on between that time. The idea was 207 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: that they treated him as a quote unquote guest, but 208 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: basically he was kind of like a court jester. They 209 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: made him dress and fancy clothes. He sat at the 210 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: dinner table. They thought it was very funny because he 211 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: couldn't talk and because he had bad manners. But what 212 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: happened was he ended up, you know, gorging on all 213 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: the food presented in front of him and not having 214 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: the you know, appropriate etiquette for for court life. So 215 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: he was taken away, uh, and he briefly escaped, then 216 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: he was brought back to London. They kept him around 217 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: as sort of like a humorous object for court life. Uh. Caroline, 218 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: the Princess of Wales, had him moved to her own 219 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: residence where he was basically kept as a pet. She 220 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: didn't refer to him as such as a pet from 221 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: what I understand, but the conditions he was kept in 222 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: were as such. Uh. He slept on the floor, he 223 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: was made to dress in a tailor made suit every morning. 224 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: But as you can imagine, you know, he didn't really 225 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: like that. Try to get out. Um, he was given 226 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: a tutor, and the tutor wasn't trying to teach him, 227 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, how to be a civilized person, how to 228 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: how to acclimate to society. They taught him tricks that 229 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: he could do for the ladies in court. Uh. And 230 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: the only words he could say were his own name 231 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: and a garbled version of King George. So seventeen, this 232 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: tutor says, you know what, he is unable to receive 233 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: instruction from me any longer, and lots of Uh, I 234 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,599 Speaker 1: don't want to see scientists, I want to say intellectuals. 235 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: Maybe it sort of assess him and write papers about 236 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: him and observe him over this period of time they're 237 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: trying to decide. It's that period of time where they're 238 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: trying to decide whether he has a soul or not. 239 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: That's the thing they're the most interested in. So this 240 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: gets back to that animal versus human. Yeah. So he's 241 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: basically kept along all this time at best as a curio, 242 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: if not just pure spectacle. Yeah, exactly. And after the 243 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: sort of spectacle war out and it was no longer 244 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: amusing to the royalty, they sent him to a farm 245 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: in Hurtfordshire. I believe it's how you pronounce it. I'm 246 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: sure there's a much better British pronunciation for that. Uh. 247 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: And basically they they've had a pension set aside for him, 248 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: a thirty five pounds a year to take care of him, 249 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: so they weren't, you know, entirely heartless. But he never 250 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: learned to speak. He escaped multiple times, there were incidents 251 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: where you know, he had run ins with villagers. Um. 252 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: They eventually fitted him with a leather collar that had 253 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: an inscription of his name and address on it, and 254 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: he died at age seventy two in sev That is 255 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: a depressing story, depressing life to try and imagine, Yeah, 256 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: I'm part of me. Wonders if given you know the 257 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: nature of how he how he ended up and outside 258 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: of this village in Germany, if he even understood somewhat 259 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: of the m hmm, the depressing nature of how he 260 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: was being treated. Um. But like I said, there were 261 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: many researchers who were studying him at the time, and 262 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: the idea was basically, at that period of time they 263 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: considered themselves going through a scientific revolution and that this 264 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: was a means of rational investigation. So by all means 265 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: we should we should study Peter. I mean, I guess 266 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: one could argue that he was he received better treatment 267 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: than he certainly could have given other circumstances. I think 268 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: that's true, Yeah, especially when we see some of these 269 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: other examples as we go through UM. One of the 270 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: intellectuals of the time, Daniel Defoe, defined Peter as this 271 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: was the guy who said he's an entirely separate species. 272 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: So he made up a species called homo for friends, 273 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: a species of wild men. And then this is important 274 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: to what we're gonna talk about later with language. Others 275 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: thought that Peter showed what is referred to sometimes as 276 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: a critical window for development and children. So there's this 277 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: period of time roughly between I think about six months 278 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: and four years old, where there's this window of development 279 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: where children are, you know, they're like sponge, your your 280 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: son is about that age, and they're absorbing everything around 281 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: them and they're learning language, and language subsequently leads to culture, 282 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: which you know, I think is a huge way of 283 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: how we define humanity. Yeah, pretty pretty much who we are. 284 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: Like the troupe we end up coming back to and 285 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: we'll come back to again again in this episode is 286 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: language as the software, the operating system for the human brain. Yeah, 287 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: and Peter didn't have that. He only had the survival 288 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: instincts to basically eat and sleep. Uh. And so you know, 289 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: there was a lot of speculation about what this all 290 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: meant and what it philosophically implied for humanity. And then, 291 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: like I said, Johann Friedrich Blumenbach came along and was like, 292 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: I actually think that this was a mentally disabled child. 293 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: And you're all, you know, speculating about nothing other than 294 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: that this poor child was abandoned by his parents. All Right, 295 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back. Alright, 296 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: we're back now. The next one we're gonna mention here briefly, 297 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: Victor of Avron. Yeah, this one he was found just 298 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: uside of France and eighteen hundred. Yeah, he was. He 299 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: was studied by and written off by a physician, uh, 300 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: Jeanne Mark Gaspard Todd, and he eventually gave up and 301 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: asked his housekeeper to care for Victor. But some of 302 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: you maybe remember may remember Victor from Tropos nineteen seventy 303 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: film The Wild Child, which gives um, you know this 304 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: fictionalized account of their relationship and his work with the Victor. Yeah, 305 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: I haven't seen that, but from what I was reading 306 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,719 Speaker 1: about the the case of Victor was basically that, you know, 307 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: and we see this in a lot of cases of 308 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: these Ferald children, that there's some intellectual curiosity at first 309 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: and then they just kind of give up. Yeah, because 310 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: once because ultimately you're left with the hard problem of 311 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: what do you do with somebody who you can't bring 312 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: them back. You can't just you can't turn them into 313 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: a fully functional, um, you know, member of society at 314 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, and the care is more difficult than 315 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: what they believe that they signed up for, right, I mean, 316 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: everybody wants to save today and then everyone wants to 317 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: figure out what's going on. But yeah, it's it's a lengthy, 318 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: lengthy proces this. But supposedly Victor, you know, did have 319 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: some progress at least compared to Peter, and he knew 320 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: how to read simple words and uh, he never really 321 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: eventually learned how to talk, but um, you know, he 322 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: had some capacity for understanding symbols. It seemed like, yeah, 323 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: and this is where we we see it to refer 324 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: to as quote the forbidden experiment, because that's the thing 325 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: about this. You could never create a language less child 326 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: to study. I mean you could, but it would be 327 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: the most heinous thing ever, like well beyond most, uh 328 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: most things that make lists of the evil experiment. And 329 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: so to find it you have to you just have 330 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: to have something fall into your lap. You have to 331 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: find a child that has been abandoned or neglected to 332 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: a severe level. And then of course you're dealing with 333 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: additional behavioral constraints. Yeah, And that's what's somewhat perverse about this, right, 334 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: is that it is always tragic when when a child 335 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: like this is found, and yet at the same time, 336 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: intellectuals jump at the opportunity to be able to define 337 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: the difference between humanity and and that other state, that 338 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: animalistic state, because it's so rarely comes along for them 339 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: to study. We've also got another example. These are just 340 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 1: a few. We didn't have much deep dive research on them, 341 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: but there was one one child named memy LeBlanc and 342 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: she was the Savage Girl of Champagne. She appeared in 343 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: France and seventeen thirty one. She's dressed in animal skins again, 344 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: was wild and resisted capture. Eventually she acclimated to society 345 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: and she was actually able to tell her story, and 346 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: what she said was that she had been sold into 347 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: slavery when she was a little girl, and she's survived 348 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: a shipwreck and then she and I'm assuming this girl 349 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: was also on the shipwreck with her. An African girl 350 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 1: of the same age survived in the wild together and 351 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: they parted ways. And that was when Memy I think, 352 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: eventually was found by civilization. Then there's sent humilia. Yeah, 353 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: I think that's right. Yeah, Ukrainian girls supposedly raised by 354 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: wild dogs and eight raw meat. Not a lot of 355 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: details here beyond that. And in six Ivan Mushakov was 356 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: found in Moscow. He was a four year old who 357 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: wandered away from his home and ended up living in 358 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: the streets with a pack of wild dogs. But eventually 359 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: the authorities captured him and you know, forced him back 360 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: into society. Well, I mean, I don't know about forced, 361 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: but it sounds like he was enjoying from what I 362 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: read that he enjoyed being with the dogs. Well, yeah, 363 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: I mean, little kids love the dog. This kind of 364 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: gets back and just the appeal of it, Like you see, 365 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: little boys want to take all their clothes off and 366 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: run around in pet dogs, you know. Yeah, and I 367 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: think that to a certain extent, the dogs allowed him 368 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: to be their pack leader to write, so that was 369 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: probably enjoyable for a four year old. There are always 370 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: some some interesting dogs toys coming out of Moscow. I 371 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: want to say, that's also where there were tales of 372 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: dogs using the subways wild dogs, Yeah, with board a 373 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: train and take it to their stopping. But I I 374 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: heard about that recently. Yeah, I can't remember if it 375 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: was in Moscow or not, but yeah, that's definitely a thing. 376 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: And sometimes maybe this explains that they have they were 377 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: taught by Ivan in how to read the public transportation system. 378 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: All right, so this is we're we're going to talk 379 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: now about Genie. All the examples before this were what 380 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: we think of as wild children, children who were raised 381 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: in the wild, either on their owner with animals. Right, 382 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: Genie is our first, uh, concrete example in the twenty 383 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: century of one of these children who was abused and 384 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: basically abandoned or at least isolated, uh, and subsequently was 385 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: thought of as a feral child. Yeah, and it's it's 386 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: a sad story and we're not gonna be able to 387 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: even cover all the angles on it because it involves, 388 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, the media, it involves well meaning scientists, well 389 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: meaning caregivers, and just the the lifetime care of an individual. 390 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: There's an excellent documentary that came out years ago from Nova, 391 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: The Secret of the Wild Child, and uh I I 392 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: embedded a YouTube of it in in a cliff in 393 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: a in a post that I'll link to on the 394 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: landing page for this episode. So that's a great place 395 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: to go. That post is up on stuff to Blow 396 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com right yesterday. Okay, So it's a 397 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: wonderful documentary that gets into you know, all the if 398 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: you really want, you know, a full deep dive into 399 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: the history of Genie, we're gonna we're gonna provide as 400 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: much information as we can here, but you know, we 401 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: need to cover the whole instance of feral children. Yeah. 402 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: So this takes place in Arcadia, California. Genie and that's 403 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: not her real name, of her case name, UM because 404 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 1: you know, it's like the mythical Genie, an emergent creature 405 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: without a human childhood, just born in ninety seven UM. 406 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: And she still resides in California as a ward of 407 00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: the state, but she suffered from a a very traumatic childhood, 408 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: if you can even call it a childhood locked in 409 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: a room, tied for to a potty chair for most 410 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: of her life. Yeah. One instance I read was that 411 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: she was chained to it and that she slept there. 412 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: She sat and slept on this potty chair like she's 413 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: basically kept in an upstairs room for the first thirteen 414 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: years of her life. And and a lot of it 415 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: had to do, I mean, if not most of it 416 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: had to do with her father being a rather disturbed individual, 417 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: um who who thought that she was retarded and that 418 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: and that she would die before she reached the age 419 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: of twelve. Yeah. I think his idea was like he 420 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: would sort of hide her from society until she passed away. Yeah, 421 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: and then I suppose he would, you know, take her 422 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: body away in the middle of the night and bury 423 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: her somewhere. I'm not sure it was very deranged. It 424 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: seemed to be from by account that we're looking at, 425 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: um dominating abusive towards not only her but also the mother, 426 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: who was partially blind and suffered from some ailments as well. Yeah. 427 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: And her claim was that she didn't really have a 428 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: whole lot of say in it that that she could 429 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: there wasn't much that she could do, and that she 430 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: was as much of a victim as Genie was. Uh. 431 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: And then my other understanding here is that when when 432 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: Genie was found, uh, they did you know, obviously, they 433 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: did some tests right when they found her, and they 434 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: she had abnormal brain waves which suggested that she had 435 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: brain damage from birth. Uh. Not everybody agreed on this though, 436 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: because later on in life, Genie showed improvement when she 437 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: was taken to you know, some she had a long story, 438 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: but when she was taken care of by caring families, Uh, 439 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: she showed improvement. And in most cases of birth brain 440 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: damage like that, that's not the case. So there's some 441 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: dispute over this. Yeah that you know, there's so many 442 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: additional factors involved in this one, because again she was 443 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: she deprived of language, but deprived of love, deprived of 444 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: environmental stimuli. She was she was punished for making noise 445 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: of apparently, you know, beaten from making noise throughout her life. 446 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: It was it was a real effort to try and 447 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: get sounds out of her. And I believe it one 448 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: case later later on, she was in a foster home 449 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: environment and she was punished for vomiting, so she backtracked 450 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: after that. She basically was taught through punishment that opening 451 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: her mouth was wrong, and so she did everything that 452 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: she could to either not speak or open her mouth 453 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: at all. Or so not only was she mute because 454 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: she never learned language properly, but because she was basically 455 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: taught not to talk, she had a very They described 456 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: it as a bunny walk when they found her. Apparent, 457 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: you know, she was strapped to this, uh this this 458 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: potty chair. Apparently the way that she walked was sort 459 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: of like a rabbit, but with both feet she would 460 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: jump forward. Yeah. The footage of her in the documentary, 461 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: she she moves very mysteriously, you know, and you know, 462 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: and it all kind of plays into into the appeal 463 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: of her case is that she's she looks like a 464 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: normal child, you know, she looks there's there's something kind 465 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: of haunting about her though, because there's anotherness to her 466 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: as well and heart breaking. Yeah, exactly, it's that um right, exactly, 467 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: it's it seems alien instead of human, and so there's 468 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: something about it that that turns you off. But then 469 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: at the same time, it's such a heartbreaking story that 470 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: you just can't help but feel horrible for her. What 471 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: eventually happened was the father shot himself basically right after 472 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: they took her away. Yeah, the media really got involved 473 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: in this pretty quickly. And and and there's actually a 474 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: connection to Victor in this because that Tropoe movie we 475 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: mentioned debut exactly one week after Genie was discovered, So 476 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: in no time at all, just you know, full fledged 477 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: media circus and this guy's atrocities that have been revealed 478 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: to the world. Yeah. I wasn't alive then, but I 479 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: suspect that at this period of time in nineteen seventy, 480 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: that Ferald children were a hot topic in the media 481 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: at the time, probably in newspapers and television reports and such. 482 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: Uh So, Jeannie, you know, like like we said, she 483 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: went on to have a lot, She was researched a lot, 484 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: but that she also was seen as a modern exploration 485 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: of trying to figure out how language acquisition worked, what 486 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: was going on with this abnormal child psychology that she had. 487 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: And you know, some of the professionals that dealt with her, 488 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: I think sort of again like we talked about with Victor, 489 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: they saw it as sort of their mission to rescue her. 490 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: But then they realized how difficult it was and either 491 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: gave up on her or there were some accusations. I 492 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this that that there were 493 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: instances where some of them were trying to get media 494 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: attention by taking care of her. Yeah, there's so many, 495 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: so many factors sort of tugging apart this situation with 496 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: this girl up. You know, a very real girl at 497 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: the center of it all um, And he's worth noting 498 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: to the At one point she did wind up with 499 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: her mother again, like her father recovered enough to where 500 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: and was cleared of abuse charges and apparently tried for 501 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: a limited amount of it didn't work with my understanding, 502 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: and then she that was when she entered multiple foster 503 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: homes right after that, I believe, and some of those 504 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: foster homes were abusive, and that was where she was 505 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: abused for vomiting one time. Uh. So she was seen 506 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: as a perfect opportunity to test out this language, this 507 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: idea about language development that is called critical period hypothesis. 508 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: And I believe that this was first coined by is 509 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: his name Eric Lennenberg or Lenniburg Um. Yeah, I believe 510 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: it was proposed by a pair of a neurologist wild 511 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: Her Penfield and co author Lamar Roberts in fifty nine, 512 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: but then it was popularized in the seventies by Eric Lindbergh. Okay, 513 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: that's what I read. So the idea is that of 514 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: the critical period hypothesis is similar to that window that 515 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier, which is that in the 516 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: first few years of life it is a crucial period 517 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: for human beings to learn language and to be presented 518 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: with the you know, appropriate stimuli to join civilization. Yeah, 519 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: and Linburg helped popularize this. He argued that, yeah, the 520 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: first language acquisition relies on neuroplasticity, and if you make 521 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: it to puberty without it, then you'll never have full 522 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: mastery of a language. And you know, therefore you can 523 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: have a limited ability to even uh, not only communicate, 524 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: but also to process the world around you. And like 525 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: you're saying, this is not something that we can experiment with, right, 526 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: we can't take a child and say, you know what, 527 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: we're purposely not going to teach this child. We're gonna 528 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: isolate this child and not teach them language for four 529 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: years just to see what happened. Yeah, the best, generally 530 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: you can do is is see how normal children acquire 531 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: language and study delays and other children. But for a 532 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: full blown case like this that you just have to 533 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: wait for something horrible to happen. So let's talk about 534 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: how Noam Chomsky comes into this. Uh not in terms 535 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: of I don't believe Chomsky had any direct interaction with 536 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: Genie's case, but that Chomsky it was. You know, many 537 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: of you probably know Chomsky as a political dissident and theorist. 538 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: I feel like that's what he's he's more known as 539 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: these days. It might come as a surprise to some 540 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: people to realize that he was linguished. In fact, he right, 541 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: that was what he was most known for when I 542 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: was in school. That that was how I was introduced 543 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: to him, as was that he was one of the 544 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: most regarded linguists. And he was he taught at m 545 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: I t if he doesn't, I don't think he's still 546 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: teaching there, but he was teaching there when I lived 547 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: in New England ten years ago. Yeah, and he he 548 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: had this argument that we acquire language not just because 549 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: we're taught at but because we're born with the principles 550 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: of language, that it's in our genes. So that so 551 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: this would be the nature side of the nature nurtural 552 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: coin when it comes to linguistics. Yeah, Chomsky called this 553 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: a universal grammar. Uh. And the idea is that as 554 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: children were hardwired to have and this is an important term, 555 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: an instinct for language. And this concept dominated linguistics for 556 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: forty years. But as we're gonna you know, discover as 557 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: we go along, it was wrong. Um. So it's important 558 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: to consider this as we're thinking about these feral children 559 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: and how they either did or did not learn language 560 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: and how that affected them during the you know, the 561 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: critical window Lendenberg talks about. But there, let's let's acknowledge 562 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: up front, like the Chomsky's uh, theory of universal grammar 563 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: has not panned out. Yeah, because we've yet to find 564 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: a universal framework across all like seven thousand odd different languages. 565 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: You know, a child from one nation can be raised 566 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: in another with no difficulty. Um. And in the and 567 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: yet we see no you know, real clear synchronicity in language. 568 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: But it's it's an appealing theory because it helps explain 569 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: the wonders of rapid language acquisition that we see in 570 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: children where they're they you know, I've I've seen it 571 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: in my own son's life where he goes from this 572 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: this you know, largely mute little creature, and then suddenly 573 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: he's saying words, and then he's building things with those words. 574 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: He's building concepts, he's getting ideas and expressing them. Um. 575 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: So this is one of the key truth series that 576 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: our brains really are language ready in a limited sense. 577 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: I mean, we have the right sort of working memory 578 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: to process sentence level syntax. We have an unusually large 579 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex that gives us the associated learning capacity to 580 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: use symbols, and our bodies are made for language. Our 581 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: learn x is set low at least, you know, compared 582 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: to other primates, allowing us to expel and control the 583 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: passage there. The position of the tiny hyroid bone in 584 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: the jaw gives us fine muscular control over our mouths 585 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: and tongues to form all those words and to make 586 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, upwards of a hundred forty four distinct speech sounds. 587 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: So even if we're not born with the linguistic software, 588 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: we do come factory ready with much of the linguistic hardware. Yeah. 589 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: So exactly that hardware is the important part in distinguishing 590 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: that it is not an instinct right, we're physically built 591 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: for it. By the time children are three to four 592 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: years old, they've acquired the elements of language from around them. 593 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: And that's regardless, like let's keep this in mind of 594 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: all the different languages that exist in human culture. That's 595 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: regardless of what that language is. It's grammar system, it's 596 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: sound system. Children can acquire that. But by six months old, 597 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: and those of you with children out there experience with 598 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: with infants will know this, they're already category categorizing sounds 599 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: of their language right there, picking up on the sounds 600 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: that are around them and trying to figure out what 601 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: they made and and and putting them into boxes. Um. 602 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: By their first year, children have honed in on what 603 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: we call phonology, and this is just the sounds and 604 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: patterns of you know, a particular language. They're used basically 605 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: as symbols around them, and you know, the vocabulary of 606 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: young children is essentially a reflection of what their everyday 607 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: lives are. Right. So I would imagine that fashion your 608 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 1: son is probably not having a whole lot of moments 609 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: where he's thinking deeply about different times in history or 610 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: or space that's far away from him, right, or some 611 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: kind of abstraction. He's probably thinking about the things that 612 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: are immediately in front of it, Like if he's thinking 613 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: about the past, he's saying, remember that time that we 614 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: saw a dead spider, that that sort of thing, But 615 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: not so much like I wonder, you know, how come 616 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: the Mongols weren't able to invade Japan exactly. We don't 617 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: develop that capacity until much later. But the vocabulary is 618 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: more immediate for us. And language in humans as a species, 619 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: you know, it's essentially similar in all of us, um 620 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: what we need. So we should distinguish this as we're 621 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: talking along here and using feral children as an example 622 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: for this. True language requires that the speaker is able 623 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: to make new utterances and combine or expand upon the 624 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: forms that they already know, right, And so we think 625 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: of this a syntax when we're when we're sort of 626 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: breaking down language. See, these are the rules for how 627 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: to combine words into acceptable phrases or sentences, how you 628 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: transform existing words. And this is something we sort of 629 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: learn instinctively along the way, right. I mean, it's it's 630 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: why a parent reciting some words that it that it 631 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: is learned. It's not talking, it's really saying these words Yeah. 632 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: In fact, you cannot teach true language to another species. Uh. 633 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: We have examples of many animals, primates especially that are 634 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: capable of learning cues or symbolic communication. Lots of primates 635 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: use American sign language, but that's not language technically, that's 636 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,479 Speaker 1: symbolic communication. Uh. There's a difference, and language certainly goes 637 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: well beyond just simply communicating exactly. Yeah. And so you know, 638 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: part of this is, this is why it got to 639 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: the heart of the sort of human versus animal difference, 640 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: is that to learn language, you have to be in 641 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: a society. It requires that you have emotional motivation and 642 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: social interaction. Like for instance, we know that you cannot 643 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: just put an infant in front of a television and 644 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 1: they'll learn language. They will hear the more themes and 645 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: the phonology that's going on through the television. But because 646 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: they're not getting any actual social interaction, there's no give 647 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: and take there, they won't learn the language. And so 648 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: that's why these feral children in the in instances they 649 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: have no capacity for language, and and oftentimes they've gone 650 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: past that window so they can no longer learn it either. 651 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: One last thing I want to say about language and 652 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: this is another sort of you know, tie end to 653 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: the idea of that some of these feral children were 654 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: mentally disabled, but they just didn't have sort of the 655 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: categorization for that at the time. Is that, Um, there 656 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: are several areas of the brain. We used to just 657 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: think it was one part of the brain broke as 658 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: area that was responsible for language, but we know now 659 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: several special areas. There's Wernicke's area. There's another part that's 660 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,959 Speaker 1: called the I'm gonna mess this up. Everybody who's listening 661 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: to me on stuff to bully your mind now is 662 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: probably used to me butchering Latin that the RQ it facilious. 663 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: Uh So those are in different parts of our brain, 664 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 1: and so there doesn't appear to be just like one 665 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 1: dedicated spot. So of course then if there's brain damage 666 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: and at birth, then there's potentially going to be a 667 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: difficulty for both learning language and for um developing you know, 668 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: simple use and culture later on. Now to come back 669 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: to Genie's case, Um, she did acquire some language in 670 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: her life. She used it to make sense of past 671 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: and president and express herself, but she never like fully 672 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: communicated and certainly this was all of this was was 673 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: made more problematic by her you know, her aggression at 674 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: various times in her life and just the overall dramatic nature. 675 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: So what that sounds like to me is is symbolic 676 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: communication but not necessarily language. Right. She she didn't possess 677 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: the ability to transform words and into syntactical structures. Uh, 678 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: but she was able to communicate still the same way 679 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: like a you know, a dolphin can or a chimpanzee can. 680 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: And uh, you know her case to this day, writers 681 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: continue to analyze it, pick it apart. She's no longer 682 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: actively studied, as I understand it. She just resides in 683 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: a home um somewhere in California and leads a quiet 684 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,479 Speaker 1: life there. And it's explored in that documentary. Of course, 685 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: it's her case. Is it's kind of controversial due to 686 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: you know, so many people trying to inject themselves and 687 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: and also a lot of them I think we're trying 688 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: to do the right thing, but those agendas kind of 689 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: become crossed here and there, where one person really wants 690 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: to to to get to the root of her problem, 691 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: to study what's happening, and another just wants to see 692 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: her cared for in an environment that is not not 693 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: going to jar her confuser. And of course during this 694 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: period of time, this was when I think that there 695 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of debates in American politics about how 696 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: much tax money should be going towards supporting mental health care. 697 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: And so in nineteen seventy four, the National Institute of 698 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: Mental Health provoked her treatments funding. And this was when 699 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: she went back to her mother. Her mother was acquitted 700 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: of all the charges. Again, like it didn't work out 701 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: with her mother, she went into foster system. Bad things happen. 702 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: As far as we know now right, a private investigator 703 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: found her at some kind of facility in California for 704 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: for my understanding, it's for mentally underdeveloped adults. So she's 705 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: being cared for, Okay. So actually, there's another example of 706 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: very similar to Genie, from as close enough as two 707 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: thousand five, and this is a young girl named Danielle 708 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: Crockett Um. Some referred to her as the girl in 709 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: the window because of that was how she was discovered. 710 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: People saw her in the window at this home she 711 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: was in Florida, and when she was a six year old, 712 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: she was found isolated in a small room within her 713 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: mother's home and the officer that found her said that 714 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: this was the worst case of child neglect he'd seen 715 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,959 Speaker 1: in twenty seven years on the force. And I won't 716 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: go into the details here, but it was absolutely filthy. 717 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: It was just horrifying the description of this place that 718 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: she was living in. And I think, like Genie, I 719 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: don't know that she was chained down, but she was 720 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: kept in a room by herself. When they found her, 721 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: she was unclothed and emaciated. She was covered in bites 722 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: and sores. She couldn't communicate at all. She couldn't even 723 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: eat solid food. And the most telling thing was that 724 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: she didn't recognize any kind of communication from other human 725 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: beings or even affection. And then what's important about this 726 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: is severely autistic children still respond to affection, but she 727 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: wasn't responding at all. And so as a result of this, 728 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: her imprisonment was defined as being something called environmental autism. 729 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: So it was that like the circumstances of how she 730 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: was raised up until that point basically generated the same 731 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: symptoms that she would have if she was autistic. You know, 732 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: this brings to mind research we looked at in the 733 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: past about about just the effects of isolation on adults, 734 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 1: you know, the individuals who have already made it through 735 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: their their childhood, uh and acquired language. But but just 736 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: to put a regular, otherwise healthy adult in an environment 737 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,399 Speaker 1: of very limited stimuli has has kind of a disastrous 738 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: effect on the psyche. Yeah, absolutely, I know just for myself, 739 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: Like if I stay in that house for too long, 740 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: I have a tendency to hold up while I'm doing work, 741 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,760 Speaker 1: and but I can easily go a couple of days 742 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: on end without leaving the house. And you don't realize it, 743 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: but it starts to affect you. Utah. I mean, our 744 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: brains evolved to allow us to live in a world 745 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: of you know, a various stimuli of fixed and moving objects, 746 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: and so when you deny it those things, it begins 747 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: to non itself. You see things that aren't there, You 748 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: are things that are not there, and uh, you know, 749 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: and that's again, that's an adult. Now imagine that scenario 750 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: for a child that is in the process of absorbing 751 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: all the data about the world they live in and 752 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: she has no other example. Yeah. Well, the good news 753 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: about Danielle Crockett is that she was adopted by a 754 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: very loving family. From what it sounds like and made 755 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: significant developmental progress in the years since. So it's been 756 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 1: ten years since she was found, So she's probably sixteen now, 757 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: and she lives in Tennessee with her adopted parents, and 758 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: they're caring for her and and and they're dedicated to 759 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: being with her for the rest of her life. Good good, Well, 760 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 1: hopefully that that will continue to look up. I think 761 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: it will. Yeah, it was reading in particular. There's a 762 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: there's a really great piece uh about Danielle um that 763 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,439 Speaker 1: hopefully we can link to in the in the show notes. 764 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: But there's they they at length interview the family that 765 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: adopted her, and it's um, it's it's it's heartwarming, all right. 766 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: So that's just the first part of our exploration into 767 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: feral children and the acquisition of language and what language 768 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 1: does as this software for the hardware of the brain. 769 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: And we're gonna pick it up in a second episode. Yeah, 770 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk more about the science of feral children, 771 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,439 Speaker 1: focusing in on language and child development. Now that you've 772 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: had these examples, you know, both mythical and real life 773 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,439 Speaker 1: that we can work from, now we can really dive 774 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: deep into the science of it. In the meantime, head 775 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: on over to stuff to blow your mind dot com. 776 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: That's where you will find uh all the podcast episodes, 777 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: the the blog post videos, links out to our social 778 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: media accounts like Tumbler and Facebook and it or would 779 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: blow the mind on all of those and uh and again. 780 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: The landing page for this episode will include links to 781 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: some of the studies we've talked about, as well as 782 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: related content on the site. Yeah, and you know, please 783 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: listen to the second episode. But you know, let us 784 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: know anything that you've learned about feral children over the years, 785 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: maybe you perhaps have done some work in child development yourself. 786 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear more about it. You can reach 787 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: us at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot 788 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:30,320 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 789 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:37,879 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com.