1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: Thirty years ago, two hikers stumbled across the body while 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: hiking in the US Alps. Authorities arrived, quickly evacuating the 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: corpse by helicopter and taking it for forensic testing. It 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: wasn't uncommon in these parts to lose mountaineers to the peaks, 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: but when they unzipped the body bag, what the scientists 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: saw was something different and something better than they could 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: ever have hoped for. They christened the body Utsi, after 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: the mountain range where they found him. Outsie was a 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: perfect specimen, having been safely cocooned in snow and ice 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: for over four thousand years. Over time, those scientists would 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: learn more about his final hours. Piecing together clues from 12 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: the contents of his stomach, his weapons, and an arrowhead 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: lodged in his back. It became evident that they had 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: a murder mystery on their hands. But before you think 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: this is just another true crime story, I want to 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: point you to something else that was also interesting. Ootsie, 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: you see, was special for another reason. His skin was 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: decorated with over sixty lines and crosses, largely concentrated on 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: his spine, knees, and ankles, lying right there prone on 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: their table, was the world's oldest tattooed mummy. For years, 21 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: the Western world has been debating the merits of tattooing, 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: but these days we know more than ever before, and 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: the past is telling today. Our knowledge of tattooing history 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: stretches back to the fifth century BC. Tattooing has spanned 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: the globe. In the case of the ancient Greeks, they 26 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: were used to communicate spy messages, and the Maya, Inca 27 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: and Aztec people's used them for rituals. The Norse and 28 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: Saxon's tattooed their family crests during the Crusades across tattoo 29 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: indicated the desire for a proper Catholic burial in the 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: event of death. Tattoos were used as protective charms among 31 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian women, and both as medicine and to mark 32 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: criminals in ancient China. But as the world expanded outward, 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: conquering cultures began to view tattoos, usually the ones that 34 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: were different from their own, as markers of barbarism and savagery. 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: This sentiment would be an everlasting one, as indelible as 36 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: inc history tells us that in fifteen sixty six, after 37 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: a violent encounter with French sailors, A tattooed Inuit woman 38 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: with her child were kidnapped and put on display throughout 39 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: Western Europe. Surviving handbills tell the story of the murder 40 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: of her husband and her capture for audiences. Stories about 41 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: this family devolved into tales of savagery and heathenism, an 42 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: attempt to justify European expansion. Over the course of her captivity, 43 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: this woman's body became a trophy of colonial desire. And 44 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: you can guess what happened next. Audiences clamored for more 45 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: of these human curiosities, and curiosities they got more. Captive 46 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: Native Americans were brought to Europe for display against their will. 47 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: The Europeans used their hostages to spread strategic messages. They 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: became living, breathing propaganda machines. There are indigenous identities were 49 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: erased in favor of new stories that would serve the 50 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: colonial agenda. There's nothing more human than wanting to tell 51 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: the stories of our lives, and we do that in 52 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: part through how we decorate ourselves. And sometimes, perhaps in 53 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: the midst of transition or even an identity crisis, we 54 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: find the opportunity to change, to doll ourselves up differently 55 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: and become someone totally new. I'm Aaron Manky and welcome 56 00:03:49,720 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: to the side show. Their caravan rolled westward, wagons pulling 57 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: toward the sinking march sun Olive Oatman, along with her 58 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters and their parents, held onto the dream 59 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: of a better life. In the rear view was the 60 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: frontier town of Independence, Missouri. Independence lived up to its name, 61 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: serving as a departure point, not just for the Oatman's 62 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: but for travelers and seekers of all kinds. The territory 63 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: had been part of the Louisiana Purchase, which was the U. 64 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: S government's acquisition of almost one million square miles of 65 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: land that carved out the heart of North America. The 66 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 1: area had traded hands from the French, giving the States 67 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: the legal right to obtain indigenous lands by treaty or conquest. 68 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: Adding salt to the wound, Congress had recently created the 69 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: Indian Reservation System. They provided funds to relocate indigenous communities. 70 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: There was another step that the American government was taking 71 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: towards systematic displacement and disenfranchisement of millions of Native peoples. 72 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: The Oatman's, though hoped to find home in the Louisiana Territory. 73 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: Manifest destiny was on their minds, and they had plenty 74 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: of company. You see, the Oatman's were part of the 75 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: Brewster Rights, a Mormon splinter sect that believed the Promised 76 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: Land layout in the Rio Grand Valley. They were all 77 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: traveling together, and so they packed their wagons with salt, 78 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: meat and hardtack, trunks of quilts, and the last of 79 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: their few family mementos. Their wagon caravans snaked out of 80 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: town and into a landscape whose rumors had filled their 81 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: heads with visions of heaven and hell. The Brewster Rights 82 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: took to the Santa Fe Trail, a nine mile track 83 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: that cut through blistering hot deserts and jagged, rocky mountains. 84 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: They wouldn't be strangers to drought, lightning storms, or rattlesnakes. 85 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: But here, seven months into their trip, and just eighty 86 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: miles outside their final destination of Yuma, Arizona, their journey 87 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: would come to a catastrophe end. The caravan wanted to stop, 88 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: you see, but Olive's dad, Royce, wanted to push onward. 89 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: The promised Land was just a few miles out of reach, 90 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: So onward the Oatman's went breaking from the pack and 91 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: rolling ahead alone. And it's here, according to Olive's later retelling, 92 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: that her family encountered members of the Java Pie tribe. 93 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: After exchanging pleasantries that quickly grew unpleasant, the family tried 94 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: to move on. A skirmish ensued, and the Oatmans were 95 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: struck down in the carnage. One brother survived and found 96 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: his way to the remaining Brewster rights, while Olive and 97 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: her sister Mary disappeared alive as captives into the Arizona wilderness. 98 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: They were traded to the Mojave people, and it's with 99 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: them that Olive and her sister would live and, according 100 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: to their telling thrive. We know that Olive was given 101 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: both a clan name and a nickname, She was dressed 102 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: in traditional garments, and, as some scholars believe, was allowed 103 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: to come and go as she pleased. We also know 104 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: that within five years time, after a devastating famine and 105 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: the death of her sister, she was rescued and brought 106 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: back to fort Yuma, a post built for the protection 107 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: of trade routes. We can imagine that Olive's return was 108 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: full of emotion for her, but also for the others there. 109 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: White settlers had been perfecting the art of fearing this 110 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: particular predicament for centuries. In fact, there's a whole genre 111 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: of literature dedicated to these tales called captivity narratives. The 112 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: first other group to receive this literary treatment in the 113 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: English language were Muslim pirates from North Africa. When European 114 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: colonizers arrived in North America, they brought the archetype with them, 115 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: With the earliest ones published in six two, the precedent 116 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: for how to interface with the new world had been set. 117 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: Olive's returned to her community of origin was striking beyond 118 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: the fact that she was taken and survived because there 119 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: was something else us. It appeared that she bore a 120 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: mark that outlasted her challenge. Her face had been tattooed. 121 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: She now wore blue lines on her chin that ran 122 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: down from her lips. They were also long, straight lines 123 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: drawn on her arms. Olive's cactus thorn tattoos marked her 124 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,559 Speaker 1: integration into the tribe. They functioned as a visual means 125 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: that expressed tribal affiliation, cultural pride, and personhood. They were 126 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: marks of social organization and religion, and a visual umbilical 127 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: cord connecting worlds seen and unseen, and most importantly, they 128 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: were voluntary. She wasn't immediately forthcoming about her time with 129 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: the Mojave, but where her silence left space, the frontier 130 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: megaphone was eager to fill it. In Contemporary accounts painted 131 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: her time away to be years of torment. It was 132 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: just too difficult for them to believe that she had 133 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: become acculturated, marrying the son of the tribe's chief and 134 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: starting her own family. But now back in her old world, 135 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: she would forever be marked as an outsider, a savage, 136 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: a freak. In eighteen fifty seven, she was on tour 137 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: after a local pastor wrote and published her biography. She 138 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: needed to be palatable, because being palatable meant earning money. 139 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: Pulling back her straight brown hair into a bun and 140 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: wearing a plain dress, she was able to attract audiences 141 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: that otherwise might be put off by women taking to 142 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: the podium. Scholars still debate, though, as to what actually 143 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: transpired over the course of those five years she was gone. 144 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: It's thought that Olive's sense of her own tattoos remained 145 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,479 Speaker 1: unclear throughout her life. As she grew older, she remarried, 146 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: started anew and began veiling her face, But she was 147 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: forever stuck between two worlds, never able to erase her identity. 148 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: Olive Oatman was forever marked, an indelible stain upon her skin. 149 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: But what those marks meant only she knew the truth. 150 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: Any sailor worth their salt had heard about Martin Hildebrand, 151 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: and any sailor worth more than fifty cents could be 152 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: tattooed by him. Martin, an old sea dog himself, was 153 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: the proprietor of not just the first tattoo shop in 154 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: New York City, but the first in the entire nation. 155 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: On the walls of his tavern turned studio hung ready 156 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: made art, poised for the chance to leap from the 157 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: page and onto a lucky body. These designs were his 158 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: biggest money makers. He dealt in crucifixes and Ballerina's, Masonic 159 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: emblems and odd Fellow signs. His most popular, though, was 160 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: a curvy young woman laying across the top of a 161 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: mausoleum with a sleeping willow. By eight, Martin and his 162 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: tattooing partner had completed an ambitious project, a full body 163 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: suit on a local jeweler named Harry Decorsi. They aimed 164 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: to rival, a man who went by the title the 165 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: Tattooed Greek, a protege of P. T. Barnum's, He too 166 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: was covered from head to foot, and purportedly the first 167 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: person to do so for the sake of the stage. So, 168 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: with his new look and a new name, the Tattooed 169 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: Albanian Harry Dicorci took the stage at George Bourbonnell's Dime Museum. 170 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: But these two men soon had copycats. They wouldn't be 171 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: the first men, nor certainly the last to get tattooed 172 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: to earn a profit. In fact, their performances soon lost 173 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: their cutting edge. However, two new acts soon appeared on 174 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: the stage, ones that would stir up both reactions and money. 175 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: Irene Woodward and Norah Hildebrand, the two first and most 176 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: famous tattooed ladies of their day. Irene was billed as 177 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: the first, the one, the only, and appeared on stage 178 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: at George's Dime Museum on March twenty first of eighteen 179 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: eighty two. It's here that she took to the stage 180 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: in a venue not unlike Barnum's American Museum. In fact, 181 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: many of the same folks orbited through the two venues together. 182 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: She draped herself in velvet, silk and lace, and was sold, 183 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: on George's words as a vision of punctured purity. Irene 184 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: was a thrilling provocateur who gave audiences a glimpse of 185 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: flesh the likes of which they had never seen before. 186 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 1: It was bare, it was colorful, and it belonged to 187 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: a lady. To audiences, this calculus was both ironic and enchanting, 188 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: and it didn't take a language whiz to understand the innuendo. 189 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: It was rumored that Martin had a hand in Irene's making, 190 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: but this has never been confirmed. What history does tell us, though, 191 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: is that a woman with his last name soon appeared 192 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: on stage, a manufactured rival to Irene. A woman by 193 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: the name of Nora killed a brand. Whether this was 194 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: a common law marriage, they were siblings, or they had 195 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: no relationship beyond tattoo artist and customer is a truth 196 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: that's been lost to history, but the association of the 197 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: last name undoubtedly helped. She too, secured a contract at 198 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: the Dime Museum and appeared shortly after Irene, as the 199 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: story went. Nora was born in Australia in eighteen sixty 200 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: and left for private school in New York as a teenager. 201 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: It's here that she would meet her estranged father, a 202 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: sailor and tattooist. They took off west to Utah, and 203 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: once they're settled up on horseback for the final leg 204 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: of their journey. While traveling, it said that they encountered 205 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: and I quote, red skinned devils and even Sitting Bull himself. 206 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: They were taken captive, with Norah's father sentenced to burn 207 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: at the stake and Norah herself to be the chief's concubine. 208 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: But there was a twist. The promotional materials claimed that 209 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: as Norah's father was being tied to the stake, his 210 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: captors noticed his tattoos. With a change of heart, Sitting 211 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: Bull promised Norah's father his freedom if he would tattoo 212 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: his warriors. But when those warriors objected, Sitting Bull was 213 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: said to have changed his mind and ordered the father 214 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: to tattoo Nora from head to toe. She was bound 215 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: tied to a tree, and it said that he worked 216 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: six hours a day for a year, resulting in three 217 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: hundred sixty five designs across his daughter's body. And of 218 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: course something had to give in a fit of madness. 219 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: Norah's father broke his needles, and with that he was 220 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: promptly sanctioned and burned at the stake. It said that 221 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: in the aftermath, Nora was rescued and taken to Denver 222 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: to recuperate. It's here in the hospital, blinded by pain, 223 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: that famed side show manager W. K. Leary discovered her. 224 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: He paid the bill for her trip back to New York, 225 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: where she now miraculously cured from the whole ordeal took 226 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: two stages throughout North America and Europe. But of course 227 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: this was all just a story. These colorful women were 228 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: prime examples of the working class struggle to escape poverty, 229 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: and were more successful than many women of their time. 230 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: But you see the idea and the truth of young 231 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: domestic servants trying to eke out another stream of income 232 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: falls short on intrigue. Tattooed ladies, not just Irene and Nora, 233 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: were exactly that. To this end, the tattooed lady represented 234 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: herself as a victim for profit. Many of these women 235 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: toured with stories of their captivity, torture, and forced tattooing, 236 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: whether or not rural audiences believed that. And again I 237 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: quote savages captured and tattooed these women. They were willing 238 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: to indulge this attractive narrative hook, especially if she was 239 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: going to show them a bit of skin and regale 240 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: visitors with impolite tales of torture that she was forced 241 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: to submit to. You see, the transgressions of a white 242 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: woman's purity couldn't be explicitly mentioned, so it was implied 243 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: in the captivity narratives of the tattooed ladies. Words like 244 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: vile lation and in dignity implied assault. Anything more than 245 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: an implication and innuendo, well, that was considered pornographic. The 246 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: sideshow had long hit on and capitalized on a nineteenth 247 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: century truth, sex cells, and honestly, it's amazing how tattooed 248 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: ladies were able to subvert the social limits imposed on 249 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: them by pretending to comply. They went along with the 250 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: damsel in distress backstories, if only to hide their self 251 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: determined and remarkably autonomous ways of moving throughout the world. 252 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: They were making choices for themselves, rather than relying on parents, husbands, 253 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: or brothers to make those decisions for them. Polite society 254 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: was far more comfortable with tales of violation and victimhood, 255 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: and far less comfortable with the idea that young working 256 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: class women could determine their own future. And in the 257 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: end what they did was powerful in its simplicity. They 258 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: changed their lives and charmed their audiences with just a 259 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: few courts of ink and some stories to tell. The 260 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: nineteen o four St. Louis World's Fair was a beacon 261 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: of hope, welcoming visitors into the new century. At the 262 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: Palace of Electricity, visitors saw the first X ray machines 263 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: and displays of babies and incubators. The fair promised Americans 264 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: that the future was here and that there were limitless 265 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: possibilities and innovation. Just ahead of the thousands of people 266 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: to walk the grounds, two kindred spirits managed to find 267 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: each other in the crowd, Maud Stevens, an aerial artist 268 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: from Kansas, and Gus Wagner, a tattoo artist from Ohio. 269 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: Maud agreed to date Gus as long as he held 270 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: up his end of the bargain. He had to both 271 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: tattoo her and allow her to apprentice him, and he did, 272 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: unveiling yet another tattooed lady. The same year that saw 273 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: the formation of a new social group, an organization called 274 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: I Kid You Not, the American Society for Keeping Women 275 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: in her Proper Sphere. And with that Maud became the 276 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: first known female artist in the United States, inking the 277 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,239 Speaker 1: bodies of rapscallions, and gentle women alike, both on the 278 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: outside and within the confines of the sideshow walls. But 279 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: soon the market began to shift. You see, the tattoo 280 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: gun had been patented a few years before her time, 281 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: allowing the average consumer to ink and be inked. Tattooed 282 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: men and women were becoming more common, and when an 283 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: act is a dime a dozen, demand for it drops. 284 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: But still the sideshow had an undeniable gravitational pull. It 285 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: attracted folks who weren't able to find work elsewhere because 286 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: of their physical limitations, but also those with remarkable talent. 287 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: And as you've seen by how it dealt in both 288 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: trafficked people and autonomous actors all at the same time. 289 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: Together those folks work side by side in a social 290 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: stew unlike anything the world had seen before. One of 291 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: the last tattooed women was a gal by the name 292 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: of Anna May Burlington. As she tells her story, she 293 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: and her sister went to see a traveling side show 294 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. Being too poor to escape her small town, 295 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: she accepted an invitation from a worker name Red Gibbons 296 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: to become a tattooed lady and join him in traveling 297 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: the world. So she did just that. She quite literally 298 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: ran away to join the circus. Between nineteen twelve and 299 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, read tattooed Anna's entire body. A lifelong member 300 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: of the Episcopal Church, her full color artwork suited her faith. 301 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: She even had a portrait of George Washington to show 302 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: just how patriotic she was and to suit the times 303 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: she changed her story. Gone were the days of captivity. 304 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: Narratives would had fallen out of style in the wake 305 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 1: of an industrialized America. In its place was another idea, 306 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: that of maternal impression. Audiences frequently asked Anna how she 307 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: came to look as she did. Was she borne that way? 308 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: And she would tease them with a nod. She claimed 309 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: that her mother had watched too many monster movies in 310 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: her day. It soon became common practice for hospitals to 311 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: quarantine patients with tattoos for fear of disease. Some cities 312 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: banned tattooing altogether for fear of spreading both cancer and criminality. 313 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: It seems that tattoos were still considered unfit for a 314 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: civilized people, and thus still dangerous and even erotic in 315 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: their allure. But for Anna, tattoos were her livelihood. For 316 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: her entire career. She could be seen walking carnival grounds 317 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: and riding circus trains wearing a full length cape, and 318 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: she did this for decades. She traveled with sideshows and 319 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: circuses and exhibited herself in museums. But as the years 320 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: wore on into the nineteen sixties, everything began to change. 321 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: The world was becoming smaller, ideas about bodies were changing, 322 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: and Anna was aging. It's a fear that most women face, 323 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: and the reason that I creams have such a stranglehold 324 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: on society, the terror of becoming invisible with age. But 325 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: for a woman like Anna, who spent her career on 326 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: the road, and who had provided for her husband and 327 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: raised a family, she and her tattoos weren't about to 328 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: fade quietly. As she grew older. The world Anna found 329 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: herself in was not the same one she had bargained for. 330 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: No longer did folks have to pay cash to go 331 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: see freaks. They can now just turn on their television 332 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: sets or go to the movies. There were no long 333 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: lines or bustling crowds to elbow through for a chance 334 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: to suspend their disbelief. The circus parades stopped and audiences 335 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: got smaller. More working opportunities were also opening up for 336 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: folks with disabilities. The side show hit its lowest level 337 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: of popularity in the nineteen forties and fifties, but by 338 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties they were back, and Anna was back too, 339 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: and this time she was billed as the tattooed grandmother. 340 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: As the story goes, she was working a side show 341 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: in Dallas when one of the last performers of the 342 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: night called in sick Jack Woods. The sideshow lecturer recommended 343 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: that Anna step up to close out the show, but 344 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: the manager didn't think that she would be a good 345 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: fit due to her advanced age. Jack, determined to save 346 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: the show, got to work. He stepped out to the 347 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: audience and gave Anna an intro that he would never 348 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: live down. He called her the strangest of them all, 349 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: far stranger than anything here on stage, because she's a 350 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: human oddity who was not born a freak. She was 351 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: introduced as a man and made monstrosity with a husband 352 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: who had been so jealous of her that he disfigured 353 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: her body with permanent markings. The side show manager was 354 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: satisfied with this. Anna, however, was not picture this a 355 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 1: slight elderly woman giving a word whipping to a fellow 356 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: man decades her jr. Anna was livid, and she let 357 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 1: Jack have it. He was told to never call her 358 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: a monstrosity again. Suffice to say, the act was successful. 359 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: This story was successful, so Anna kept performing, and from 360 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: that night on, unbeknownst to her, Jack kept telling his 361 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: tall tale. He was just careful to keep the volume 362 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: a bit lower so that Anna, one of the oldest 363 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: and most successful tattooed ladies in the world, couldn't hear him. 364 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: In a world where many of us take tattoos for granted, 365 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: it's amazing what sorts of tales they paint for us. 366 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: From captivity narratives to independent women, there has been so 367 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: much more on display than just a bit of ink. 368 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: And I hope today's journey has helped you see that. 369 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: But we're not done just yet. Stick around through this 370 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: brief sponsor break to hear one more tale about the 371 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: side show and maybe find a bit of artistic inspiration 372 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: along the way. For the going price of seventeen dollars 373 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: and fifty cents per foot, Dr Fred Foster Bloodgood sourced 374 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: all kinds of snakes. They were central to his act, 375 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: after all, one in which he pitted these animals against 376 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: human opponents, drawing blood drew audiences, and the average casualty 377 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: rate for the snakes didn't bode well for blood Goods 378 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: slippery acquisitions. For a decade, blood Good worked the carnival circuit, 379 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: shouting from the Bally platform and offering audiences a taste 380 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: of the grotesque. In his words, he offered one of 381 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: the most disgusting, one of the most repulsive, yet one 382 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: of the most interesting attractions ever conceived by the mind 383 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: of mortal man blood Good, who, as you have probably 384 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: guessed correctly at this point, was certainly no doctor, would 385 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: step onto the platform in a lab coat, and then 386 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: his act would go something like this. He would tell 387 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: his audiences the story of Niola, a woman from the 388 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: African continent who was brought here during the Scopes Monkey Trial. 389 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: Of As the story went, she was discovered by scientists 390 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: living in a cave of snakes replicated here in front 391 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: of blood Good as a pit. Niola, who was actually 392 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: a man wearing a long wig, would then face off 393 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: against these reptiles, allowing them to rattle, to bite, and 394 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: to draw blood. The act crescendo would come when Niola 395 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: would pick up one of the larger snakes. She would 396 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: then place its head between her teeth, bite it off, 397 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: and then proceed, according to blood Good, to skin it 398 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: like a banana and devour the rest. Naturally, audiences were 399 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: horrified and probably terribly pleased to be getting their money's worth. 400 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: The world of made freaks like folks performing in blood 401 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: Good snake Pit was simple and its execution, though complicated 402 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: in its design, what he was serving up was a 403 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: departure from the conjoined Hilton sisters or the little tom 404 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: Thumbs of the world. But to understand this, we have 405 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: to understand the social hierarchy among sideshow performers. Born freaks 406 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: reigned supreme on the sideshow circuit, commanding top dollar and 407 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: top billing. Blood Good himself dealt with able bodied outsiders 408 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: through decoration, performance, and sometimes assuming a new identity. They 409 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: would learn a trade and hitch their success to the 410 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: traveling sideshow trains the scholars up though on made freaks 411 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: is just much thinner. They were considered to be less 412 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: valuable with the least sideshow cultural cachet, and they could 413 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: often move between worlds as they pleased. They were easily 414 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: replaceable because their acts were largely theatrical and at the 415 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: bottom most wrong of the side show laddered. The lowest 416 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: of the made freaks were the geeks. The word finds 417 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: its origin in the German word ghek, meaning fool. Maybe 418 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: today the label conjures up images of calculators and pocket 419 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: protectors and algebra class but the original geeks were otherwise 420 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: normal looking folks exhibiting abnormal behaviors like lighting the heads 421 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: off of snakes. So while audiences could point, stare, and 422 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: even laugh at performers with bodies different than there's, the 423 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: geek school was to strike fear into the audience through 424 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: overt action and through subversive suggestion. Absent of all physical markers, 425 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: geeks appeared to be the pinnacle of normalcy, perhaps someone 426 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: you'd otherwise find working as a mailman or a bank teller. 427 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: In this way, these performers confronted those looking at them 428 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: with a very uncomfortable idea. Perhaps the audience members were 429 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: more like the freaks than they cared to admit. Side 430 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: show was written by Robin Minat with narration by me 431 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey. Research for the series was by Robin Minator, 432 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: Taylor Haggard Dorn, and Sam Alberty, with production assistants from 433 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: Josh Than, Jesse Funk, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Grim 434 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: and Mile Presents was created in partnership with I Heart Radio. 435 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: You can learn more about this show and everything else 436 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: from Grim and mild Over at Grim and mild dot com, and, 437 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: as always, thanks for listening.