1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 3: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 4: He says, He's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 4: it will be different. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 5: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 3: on him. Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 3: done nothing. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating the people. 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 4: Welcome to elan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 4: It's Tuesday, June eleventh. I'm your host, David Popodopolis. We 15 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 4: are talking Tesla, specifically about the upcoming shareholder meeting to determine, 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 4: among other things, Elon Musk's pay package. It's a controversial 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 4: topic as a Delaware judge throughout his previous fifty six 18 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 4: billion dollar compensation, and there are people campaigning loudly on 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 4: both sides. We're gonna hear from some of them and 20 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 4: also consider the current comatose state of Tesla stock. Ultimately, 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 4: the question is how much does this vote matter? 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 3: A lot? 23 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 4: It turns out to Elon, but probably much less to 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 4: the woman who holds his fate in her hands. Lastly, 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 4: we'll dissect a sudden and explosive feud with not one, 26 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 4: but two two of Elon's rivals talk about all these things. 27 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 4: We are joined by our all star panel, Max Chafkin, 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 4: senior writer at Bloomberg Business Week, Colomax Hey, David Hey, 29 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 4: and Dana hall our Ace Elon Musk reporter Dana Welcome Hey. 30 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 4: Later on, Esha Day, a senior reporter with the Market's 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 4: team who focuses on evs, will join us to talk 32 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 4: Tesla stock. But Dana, let's jump right into it. The 33 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 4: vote on Elon's pay package, among other votes, will happen 34 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 4: on Thursday, But just remind us of what happened back 35 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 4: in the courtroom in January and what's occurred in the 36 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 4: month since. 37 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, So, to back up for a little bit, in 38 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 6: twenty eighteen, shareholders overwhelmingly approve this kind of crazy like 39 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 6: staggering moonshot pay package that was supposed to incentivize Elon 40 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 6: Musk to stay focused on Tesla. At the time, everybody 41 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 6: thought it was crazy, but he hit all of the 42 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 6: milestones and became the richest man in the world. In 43 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 6: the process. The problem is that Tesla's board is filled 44 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 6: with his people, like his brother Kimball and his friends 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 6: and in you know, many critics would say that it's 46 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 6: a captive board, and a shareholder sued over these issues, 47 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 6: and litigation went on for years. I flew to Delaware 48 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 6: to watch Elon Musk and former board member Antonio Gracias 49 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 6: testify in court, and then in January, the judge in 50 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 6: Delaware basically came out and sided with the shareholder and said, 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 6: you know, this board is like captive and rife with 52 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 6: conflicts of interest, and the board really didn't negotiate this 53 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 6: pay package and this is hugely problematic. So she voided 54 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 6: the deal. Elon got furious and now to sort of 55 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 6: remedy all of the faults that she found with the 56 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 6: twenty eighteen package. Tesla is doing this kind of weird, 57 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 6: risky novel legal strategy where they're bringing the same package 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 6: before shareholders again six years later, in the hopes that 59 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: like having a revote, will somehow convince the Delaware court 60 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 6: system that everything is now fine okay. 61 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 4: And that's where we stand out now, Max and Dee, 62 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 4: this is a pretty unusual pay package. I feel like 63 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 4: when you talk about CEOs of big companies here in 64 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 4: the US, you talk about millions with an M, I 65 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 4: mean billions with the bee as part of you know, 66 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 4: bonus included and all that is is almost unheard of. 67 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: Right when you see big numbers like this in the billions, 68 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: it's almost always like a huge amount of stock, which 69 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: is which is what this was. 70 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: This was not a cash compensation. 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 2: This was the board giving him a huge number of 72 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: stock options, which is kind of normal in the world 73 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: of startups, you know, much smaller companies, but is and 74 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 2: even the kind of structure of this and the upside 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: and all that, it would be kind of normal if 76 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,239 Speaker 2: this were a much much smaller company with a few 77 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 2: venture capital investors. 78 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: Very unusual in this case. 79 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: Of course, Elon has always kind of wanted to run 80 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: Tesla as his as if he were running a private company, 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: which you know, creates it creates certain opportunities. 82 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: I mean, he's even said he's flirted recently with the 83 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 4: idea of taking Keesla private again, right right. 84 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: And he of course we all know he did the 85 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: funding secured thing. He's he's done this multiple times. I mean, 86 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: you know, it has it creates certain things that I 87 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: think work really well for Tesla, and we're but we're 88 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: running into a situation where, yeah, it seems like maybe 89 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 2: there's some fundamental problems with how Elon thinks of himself 90 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: and his role within the company, you know, vis a 91 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: vis the American legal system in the Delaware courts and 92 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: so on. 93 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 4: All Right, so I want to listen for a second 94 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 4: to the yes case and the no case, i e. 95 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 4: Those who are arguing that yes, we the shareholders of 96 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 4: Tesla should give Elon his pay package, or no we shouldn't. 97 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 4: We're going to listen to the yes case first, as 98 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 4: expressed by Ron Baron, who's a big Tesla shareholder, and 99 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 4: he said this on CNBC the other. 100 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 7: Day, I think in the next ten years we'll probably 101 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 7: make four or five times our money again in Tesla. 102 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 7: So so he's created tremendous wealth for people, and he 103 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 7: was paid. If his contract is enforced, which I think 104 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 7: it should be, he's paid fifty six billion dollars. So 105 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 7: it's like winning the lottery. You know, if you and 106 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 7: Joe was talking about it before he win the lottery, 107 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 7: you don't tell someone I'm sorry you won so much money. 108 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 7: You have to give it. 109 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: I remember think that's the yes case. 110 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: The no case we get from Earl Fronk puppy banning. 111 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 7: I think the. 112 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 5: Court rightfully pointed out some significant problems with the initial 113 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 5: disclosure of the compackage. Also, the court ruling has pointed 114 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 5: out obvious problems with the general governance of Tesla, which 115 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 5: would become so profound over time as you watch elon 116 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 5: by a social media company and tarnish the brand and 117 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 5: seem to be a part time CEO. This no vote 118 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 5: is an opportunity for shareholders to speak up about these 119 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 5: issues and hopefully bring some rational governance back to Tesla. 120 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 4: Thank you now, Dan, What's up with this frunk puppy name? 121 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 3: So. 122 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 6: Earl is a fascinating guy. I've known him for a 123 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 6: long time. He is a big Tesla fan, and he's 124 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 6: very active on x for really known as Twitter, and 125 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 6: he's very funny. He's got a great meme game. He's 126 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 6: been like one of these longtime retail shareholders who is 127 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 6: very active in the in the Tesla community as it is, 128 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 6: and the fact that Earl is voting no is significant 129 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 6: because Tesla has been actively courting retail investors that the 130 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 6: dynamic here of the before the vote on Thursday is 131 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 6: that large institutional investors, including mostly pension funds, as well 132 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 6: as proxy advisors Iss and Glass Lewis, are very much 133 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 6: against the ratification of the pay package. They're very worried 134 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 6: about further dilution, and so Tesla is actively courting its 135 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 6: you know, loyal retail base to vote yes, and Earl 136 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 6: is kind of like a prime example of one of 137 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 6: the retail shareholders who is very vocally voting no. 138 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 4: Right, And so the fronk puppy isn't happy. So but 139 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 4: that gets at something that I really want to lean 140 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 4: into for a second here. So we know, Dana that 141 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 4: last time back in eighteen, the vote was pretty much 142 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 4: a landslide for Elon right the board. 143 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 6: Seventy three percent of the vote's cast were for Elon. 144 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 6: And at the time, you know, Tesla's investor relations department 145 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 6: did a real vigorous job of kind of selling this 146 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 6: this you know, unprecedented compensation plan to its largest investors. 147 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 6: But a lot has changed since twenty eighteen. Tesla is 148 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 6: now in the S and P five hundred, which means 149 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 6: that there's more index funds and more passive investing Elon 150 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 6: bought x or, bought Twitter and renamed it x Elon 151 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 6: started another company. The stock is tanking, so like it 152 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 6: is a very different dynamic. The shareholder base has shifted, 153 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 6: just the whole perception of Elon as a CEO has shifted. 154 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 6: And to me, what's very funny is that the whole 155 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 6: point of the twenty eighteen package was to keep Elon 156 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 6: focused on Tesla. You could argue that that has not worked. 157 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 4: I would say yeah, I would say not. I think 158 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 4: he probably founded like three additional companies in the time 159 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 4: since I mean obviously the stock for the most part 160 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 4: did quite well until it didn't. 161 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: But just imagine how many companies he would he had. 162 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 4: You'd have seventy companies right now. Had not give him 163 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 4: that much. 164 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: You know, the pitch back then, even if you were 165 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: a skeptic, I think was a little if, even if 166 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: you were thinking the way Frank Puppy is thinking, was 167 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 2: a little easier to swallow because it was sort of like, yes, 168 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: this is an insane amount of money, but he only 169 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: gets it if our market cap goes up like tenfold, 170 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: So like, you know, it's it's sort of like a 171 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: you know, win win. What's what's difficult here is it's 172 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: now backward looking. I mean, the market cap is what 173 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 2: it is, it's actually slightly it's fallen a little bit, 174 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: you know, of course over the last you know, year 175 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: or so. But it's but but the thing is, it's 176 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: sort of like Tesla's in the position of saying, well, 177 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: we have to honor the deal, and you know, and 178 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: some Tesla shareholders, I think understandably, especially given how much 179 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: how Elon Musk is behaving, especially given all the sort 180 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: of big questions about his focus, are sort of I 181 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: think thinking it'd be nice to get out of it, right. 182 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 4: I mean, the thing at the time and a teen 183 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 4: was I'm handing you these options to get you to 184 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 4: focus and drive the company forward and turn it into 185 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 4: this enormously valuable company, which he did once that struck down, Okay, 186 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 4: and now he doesn't have it. Well the sort of 187 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 4: the max to your point, right, the value now is 188 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 4: the value? Why do I I don't know, if I'm 189 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 4: a shareholder, why do I need to give you that 190 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 4: money for past performance? 191 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 5: Right? 192 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 6: I think the idea is that, like the guy does 193 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 6: need to get paid. I mean, at some point they're 194 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 6: going to have to figure out how to compensate him 195 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 6: for his work over the past six years. And that's 196 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 6: certainly the argument that like Robin Denholm, the chair of 197 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 6: the Tessel board, and all of the bulls are making 198 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 6: like a deal is a deal, like pay the man 199 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 6: like he does need to be compensated in some way. 200 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, Dan, Actually we have a clip of Robin pitching 201 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 4: the yes vote, and here it is. 202 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 8: The Tesler of today is utterly transformed from the Tesler 203 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 8: it was in twenty eighteen. Thanks in large part to 204 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 8: Elon's leadyship and vision, we are on the of our 205 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 8: next great growth waves. You have seen for yourself what 206 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 8: five years under the leadership of an incentivized Elon can, 207 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 8: due to the value of your investment, protect that same 208 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 8: value creation potential for the future. 209 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 4: Man, that's a very good accent. It almost makes me 210 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 4: want to vote yes myself. But I wonder, Dana, if 211 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 4: Elon or perhaps Robin would probably say, hey, no, nobody 212 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: put me up to this. But it seems like internally 213 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,479 Speaker 4: within the company there are a lot of Tesla employees, 214 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 4: high ranking employees, getting out pushing the yes case. Perhaps 215 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 4: speaks to a bit of the sense of urgency inside 216 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 4: team Elon, Oh for sure. 217 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 6: I mean they have a sense of the vote count, right, 218 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 6: and they know what percentage of retail investors have voted, 219 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 6: and they are actively talking to their largest holders and 220 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 6: they know where they stand. I mean, just over the 221 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 6: weekend we saw Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund, which is a 222 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 6: top ten holder, come out and say that they're are no. 223 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 6: I mean, the way to think about this is, this 224 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 6: is a political campaign. Is the candidate, his pay package, 225 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 6: is the platform, and you've got surrogates from the board, 226 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,599 Speaker 6: Ron Barron, Kathy Wood like coming out on CNBC and elsewhere, 227 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 6: like talking about the s case. So it's like this 228 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 6: is a campaign with like a lot of surrogates. But 229 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 6: they wouldn't be running such a hard campaign if they 230 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 6: had the votes. Like, this is going to be a 231 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 6: very close vote, and I personally think that it will pass, 232 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 6: but it's not going to pass by the margin that 233 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 6: it did in twenty eighteen because it's just a very 234 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 6: different company. 235 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 4: Now, it's a different Yeah, it's a different company in 236 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 4: a different time. 237 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: Okay, Max. 238 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 4: Now, even if the vote is yes in the end, 239 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 4: which as Dana is telling us, is the base case here, 240 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 4: does it actually even matter is it binding here? I mean, 241 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 4: the reality is the judge doesn't have to take this 242 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 4: vote into account if she doesn't want to. 243 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: No. 244 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: No, Dana is comparing to a political campaign, which I 245 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: think is right in this that like perceptions and spin 246 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,479 Speaker 2: are going to be really important in kind of evaluating 247 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: the result of this thing. But it's more like it's 248 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: not like a presidential general election. It's more like a 249 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: primary in a state that doesn't really matter on its own. 250 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 3: Like think like the Iowa. 251 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 2: Caucus, right, the Iowa Caucus doesn't decide the IO any Yeah, exactly, 252 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: but it isn't It isn't binding in the sense that 253 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: it's not going to decide the election, but it is 254 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: gonna shape what happens next. And I do think here, 255 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: if it passes, it seems like the path is pretty clear. Right, 256 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: They're going to appeel the Delaware Court decision. They're going 257 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 2: to say, look like, we disclosed all this stuff to 258 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: our shareholders. 259 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: They're still for. 260 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 4: It, dear Judge. 261 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: Mind now, But if it fails, or if it passes 262 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: very narrowly, I think it's pretty bad. And it's and 263 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 2: I think it's especially bad if it fails because then 264 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: all of a sudden like I don't know, like they're 265 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: legal strategies out the window. They're gonna be They're gonna 266 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: be kind of back where they started, and I think 267 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: they're gonna have to start to think about renegotiating and 268 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 2: pay at a lower level, which is gonna send Elon. 269 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 4: It's gonna send him ballistic. I mean I would think 270 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 4: that to a certain degree. If it is a no vote, 271 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 4: given Elon has publicly threatened to take his toys and 272 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 4: leave Tesla, it would essentially be the shareholders calling his bluff, 273 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 4: like dude, go, there's the door, and then the question is, 274 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 4: Dana does he go? 275 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 6: I think it depends on how much of a narcissistic 276 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 6: injury a no vote would be to him. Because he 277 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 6: is still like the largest shareholder in the company. He's 278 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 6: got thirteen percent. It is hard to imagine him being 279 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 6: so upset that he would just quit. But he's an unpredictable, 280 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 6: very emotional person, and you have to kind of wargame 281 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 6: for every scenario. It's just funny, like an autopileo engineer 282 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 6: will like be on X saying, oh my Elon's so great, 283 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 6: I've learned so much from him, and then you hear, 284 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 6: then Elon will respond like much appreciated. It's like how 285 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 6: It's like how grassroots is this CA campaign? And then 286 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 6: on the other side, you know Norway's sovereign wealth fund. 287 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 6: You know some pension fund trunk puppy. Here's amalgamated back 288 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 6: frunk pugpy. Another big shareholder is this guy Leo who 289 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 6: is in Singapore. He's like one of the largest retail shareholders. 290 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 6: He's absolutely a no. And uh, I think it's just 291 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 6: going to be super close. I would love to be 292 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 6: able to figure out the title vote telle. I'm like 293 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 6: a Senate majority leader. I've got this like whip list 294 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 6: in my head, Like every day it shifts a little bit, 295 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 6: and I have to tell you, Like Tesla employees are 296 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 6: telling me that they're getting phone calls like asking them 297 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 6: have you voted? And if someone says no, they're like, oh, 298 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 6: would you want to vote right now? Like they are 299 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 6: really pushing retail. They're calling people, They're emailing people like 300 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 6: shareholders have gotten voicemails. 301 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: Why wait wait wait wait wait. 302 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 4: But so they're calling their own employees who own the 303 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 4: stock and they're saying, dear sir, have you big brother? 304 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 4: Oh you haven't, big Brother would like you to vote. 305 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 6: Now, well, they really want you to vote, I mean, 306 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 6: and there is a website called vote Tesla com Tesla's 307 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 6: running ads. 308 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: There's a video on the Tesla website and you know, 309 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: being distributed on social media that we're optimists. The robot 310 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: that Elon Musk has said will be the greatest consumer 311 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: product of all time. You know it's gonna be worth 312 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: many trillions of dollars is also pitching the vote. 313 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: It's talking. 314 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: Oh really, it's talking to you and telling you the 315 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: Tesla shareholder. 316 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 4: As convincingly as Robin Dennie. 317 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: They're pulling Yeah, they're pulling out all the stops. 318 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 7: Your vote decides the future of Tesla. 319 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: We made it easy to cast your vote any of 320 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: three ways, online, by QR code, or by phone. 321 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 4: All right, the the bots pushing me, all right, Dana, 322 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 4: before we move on. Of course, the pay package isn't 323 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 4: the only thing being voted on on Thursday. Any other 324 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 4: highlights that will come up in terms of votes at 325 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 4: the shareholder meeting. 326 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, so there are twelve resolutions. I'm sure that every 327 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 6: listener of the Elon podcast has carefully read the very 328 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 6: long single one of them proxy, every single word of 329 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 6: the proxy. But there's twelve resolutions. I think you know 330 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 6: at the very beginning we're going to hear so two 331 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 6: board members are up for reelection, James Murdoch and Kimball Musk, 332 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 6: Elon's younger brother. That's going to be key to watch. 333 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 6: There could be like a revolt against those two. And 334 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 6: then proposal three is you know, moving the company's legal 335 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 6: headquarters from Delaware to Texas. And then proposal four is 336 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 6: the pay and then there's other things about like the 337 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 6: right to unionize. So the pay package is the big one, 338 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 6: but we've got to pay attention to the other ones 339 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 6: as well, And we could have a split scenario where 340 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 6: like maybe shareholders say yes on Texas but no on pay. 341 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 6: Maybe maybe it's yes on James Murdoch, no on Kimball. 342 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 6: Like it could go many different ways. 343 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 4: Okay, all right, So we'll see what the vote is 344 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 4: on Thursday, and if there's some big shocker, perhaps elon 345 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 4: Inkle listeners, we will be in your feed that evening 346 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 4: or the following morning. We're gonna go on to talk 347 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 4: about Keesslas Stock and to do so, we're bringing in 348 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 4: Esha Day, Senior Reporter, and the market's team Air Bloomberg. Welcome, Mesha. Hello, 349 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 4: So the last time you were on, you told us 350 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 4: in our vast audience that Tesla is a wildly volatile stock, 351 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 4: perhaps the most vowatile in all of the s and P. 352 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 4: Five hundred and I am as I look at the 353 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 4: Bloomberg terminal, I see a stock that is comatosed, flatline, 354 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 4: boring as hell? What is going on, Esha? 355 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: I like that word boring And who would think of, 356 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, using that word along with Tesla or elon 357 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: Moscow that matter? 358 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 7: Right? 359 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: But sure, if you look at Tesla shares over the 360 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: past month or so, the stock has been trading between 361 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: a very very tight range about like ten twelve dollars usually, 362 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: and that is not typical of the Tesla stock. 363 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 7: Right. 364 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: Let's take a look at some of the measures that 365 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: traders usually look at, For example, historical volatility. It's basically 366 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: a measure to kind of get a sense of how 367 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: the stock price has been fluctuating in over a certain 368 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: period of time. So Tesla shares historical volatility over ten 369 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: day period last week, I think last Friday will be 370 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: precise drop to its lowest since October of twenty twenty one. 371 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: So that tells you that this is a typical of 372 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: Tesla's stock, But at the same time, this is rather 373 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: typical of a stock that is kind of expecting a 374 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: milestone event that could lead to further volatility in the future. 375 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: Whenever I see a stock behaving this way, beat Tesla 376 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: or any other name, what it tells me is that 377 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: investors are moving to the sidelines, and that that is understandable. 378 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: Investors try to move to the sideline and kind of 379 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: hunker down when they think that there will be a 380 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: lot of volatility in the recent time, right. 381 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 4: So the milestone event, the breakout essentially that they're waiting 382 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 4: for higher or lower is do we is our sense 383 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 4: that it's tied to the pay package vote. 384 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So a lot of the conversation, I 385 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: would say, most of the conversations I've been having with 386 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: investors and market watchers and just like broadly stock watches 387 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: and pundits, it has been that this is a near 388 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: term risk event for the stock, and that really is 389 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: why we're seeing kind of this very little movement in 390 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: the stock in the recent times. But then uncertainty is 391 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: not just about the musk Bee package at this point, right, 392 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: everything about Tesla is kind of shrouded in a lot 393 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: of confusion and uncertain that at this point. 394 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 4: Just to pause there for a second. So the concern 395 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 4: again is that because if he wins the vote, I 396 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 4: suppose maybe the stock whatever ticks up a bit higher. 397 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 4: But the concern is lo and behold, he loses the vote, 398 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 4: and as Dana was saying earlier, he potentially gets so 399 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 4: ticked off he just says, screw you all, I'm maddy 400 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: here he walks, and then all of a sudden, the 401 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 4: bottom falls out of the stock. No, I just made 402 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 4: all that up. 403 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: No, it's not supposed to be that big of a 404 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: risk event. People are waiting on the sidelines and trying 405 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: to understand what exactly comes out of this vote. But 406 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: it's expected to be a near term risk event, is 407 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: what everybody's telling me. In the longer term, nobody thinks 408 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: that even if it's a negative vote, Elon Musk is 409 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: going to be ticked off enough that he would completely 410 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: as you said, like, maybe shareholders will call his bluff, 411 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: but it will be a bluff. It will be proven 412 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: to be a bluff. So but then there are other risks. 413 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: This is not the only risk, but Tesla at this point, 414 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: there's also the risk about is this like going to 415 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: be an AI company at all? You know, the entire 416 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of pivot that Musk tried to pull about Tesla 417 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: not being an EV company anymore, it's going to be 418 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: an AI company. That's an uncertainty. There's also the elections 419 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: later this year, and a lot of people are worried 420 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: about what a potential Trump win could mean for electric 421 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: vehicle sales in this country in the at the time. 422 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 7: And since they're already. 423 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: Slow, they're slowly, they've slowed quite a bit. Now, Max, 424 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 4: we're talking about a stock that is stabilized, and one 425 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 4: of the reasons why I wanted to talk about the 426 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 4: stock is, yeah, this is a rare patch of apps 427 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 4: tranquility in the stock, but after it absolutely collapsed at 428 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 4: the beginning of the year. 429 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's been really bad. I 430 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: think what's calm things down? As Elon Musk said, you know, 431 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: as Esha's hinting at, you know, we're gonna pivot towards robotaxis, 432 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 2: and everyone's kind of you know, who knows, maybe that 433 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: looks better than I guess a lot of people think 434 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: maybe they lift the curtain or the sheet off of 435 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 2: the new Robotaxi model in August as as many people expect, 436 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: and it is, it is something that feels more immediate 437 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: than I'd say most people who follow this this technology 438 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 2: would expect. So like, there's sort of possible upsides, but 439 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: they're all you kind of really have to squint for 440 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: a lot of them. You know, maybe Trump and Elon 441 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: get really close and he gets selected and somehow that 442 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 2: I mean, the one thing I'll say is people who 443 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 2: are really worried about Tesla about Elon Musk also tend 444 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: to be people who think that Tesla could do okay 445 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 2: without him. And I think there's been a there's sort 446 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: of an evolution happening, and this conversation around pay shows 447 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 2: it where for a long time, I think if you 448 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: pull Tesla investors, they would all say that basically the 449 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: company is worthless, pointless, give up whatever without Elon Musk. 450 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 2: And I think the fact that some people are voting 451 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: against this and that more people are coming around to 452 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 2: it suggests that there is a feeling that maybe Tesla 453 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 2: without Elon Musk is more okay than we realized before. 454 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 4: Dan in conversations you have with your sources, does a 455 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 4: post Elon Musk Tesla come up more now than before? 456 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 6: I mean, Elon Musk has been the CEO of Tesla 457 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 6: since two thousand and eight. He's like the longest running 458 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 6: CEO of any car company ever. Like it's just like this, 459 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 6: it's just been this incredible run. But I do think 460 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 6: that like there is a scenario where like Tesla just 461 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 6: becomes a car company and someone else runs it and 462 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 6: they just make cars and they like forget about all 463 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 6: this robotaxi stuff. That's kind of hard for me to 464 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 6: envision because the brand is so intertwined with him and 465 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 6: always has been. 466 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, so esha on that where you have have indeed 467 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 4: some shareholders, some investors arguing that at this point, as 468 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 4: improbable as it sounds, Elon is hurting the company in 469 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 4: the stock more than he's helping it. But you're telling 470 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 4: us that absolutely positively. If it's a no vote that 471 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 4: causes these will Elon leave questions the stock tanks, you say, no, 472 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 4: I no, no, I haven't gotten a single thing, right. 473 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's expecting this to be a big 474 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: selling event, And I think I can kind of agree 475 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: with Dan I hear Tesla is still very Tesla is 476 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: still very synonymous with Elon Musk. So people think that 477 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: if Tesla, if Tesla wants to be just an EV company, yes, 478 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: it can probably do without Musk. But if Tesla has 479 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 1: to justify those insane valuations of its stock, then it 480 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: has to become an AI company, and nobody thinks Tesla 481 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: can really do it without Musk. So the idea is, 482 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: even if the vote is a non it could be 483 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: some weakness in the stock, which has anyway not been 484 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: the most exciting stock in the market for some time now. 485 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: But at any point, especially in August, if there's a 486 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: very exciting unveiling happening of the robotaxi, this can you know, 487 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: sky's the limit? 488 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, esha. And perhaps when that exciting unveiling of the 489 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 4: Robotaxi happens, we'll have you back on when you are that. 490 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 4: Don't bring us boring again, You're better than that, bring 491 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 4: us wild surprising news. 492 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: Tell the stock. 493 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: Okay, but thank. 494 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 4: You for joining us. 495 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. 496 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 4: Okay, Max, I feel like we had no feud last week, 497 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 4: but we're back with a big time oh man. 498 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: Huge, this is you know, this is a big breaking breaking. 499 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: This is high both on the feud board in terms 500 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 2: of the ranking of the feud, but also high because 501 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about some of the most important executives in 502 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 2: the business world, some of them powerful people on Earth, 503 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: and they are feuding, which I love. Yesterday, Tim Cook 504 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: and a bunch of Apple executives went through a huge 505 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: sort of developer conference. 506 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 3: You know, this is one of their regular events. 507 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 2: It's one of the event where they talk about software updates, 508 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 2: and it was all about AI. And there were a 509 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 2: bunch of little things, you know, the iPad. I don't 510 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: know if you knew this, David. The iPad has a 511 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 2: calculator now. But the sort of most significant announcement was 512 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 2: that there is going to be an integration with open 513 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 2: Ai inside of iPhones and I believe eventually, you know, 514 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 2: other Apple products, so you can essentially ask Siri to 515 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 2: ask open Ai something. And while this was going on, 516 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: Elon Musk, as he often does, picks up his phone 517 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 2: and starts sending messages and the nature of the messages 518 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 2: are Apple is terrible. 519 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 3: This AI thing is an affront of privacy. 520 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 2: If if this happens, I will ban Tesla employees from 521 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 2: bringing their iPhones even proposed a sort of solution. He's 522 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: going to have little Faraday cages, that's a little metal boxes. 523 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: Employees will have to put their iPhones in on the 524 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 2: way into the office to sort of keep Tesla and 525 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: his other companies pure of this nefarious influence of this 526 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: AI company that he doesn't like. 527 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 3: And of course this is a this is a. 528 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, So it is he's rekindling simultaneously too few Exactly. 529 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 2: This is Elon Musk versus Tim Cook, which we saw 530 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 2: playing out during the sort of conversation of advertising on 531 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 2: X last year, and this is Elon Musk for Sam Altman. 532 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 2: So essentially Elon Musk, I think, in addition to kind 533 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: of expressing his continued distrust, distaste and so on for 534 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 2: Open Ai, also kind of, you know, as he does, 535 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 2: maybe watching a lot of people talking about Apple's new 536 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: calculator and talking about Apples and new AI features and. 537 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: You know, sort of missing the spot. 538 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 6: Still ranting. This morning he woke up to it. It 539 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 6: was like, the truth is that handing your data over 540 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 6: to digital superintelligence that Apple themselves cannot even build or 541 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 6: understand at the operating system level is insane. So he's 542 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 6: kind of like It's like this two part thing where 543 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 6: like I'm worried about your privacy and you should be too, 544 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 6: but also like Apple can't even build AI on our own. Yeah, 545 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 6: it's like a feud within a feud. It's like a 546 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 6: nesting feud. 547 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 3: Now. 548 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: I think, you know, Elon Musk is probably right to say, hey, 549 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 2: we should be skeptical of what a giant company says 550 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 2: about privacy, especially when we're talking about AI. But there 551 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 2: is some irony, maybe even a little hypocrisy here, given 552 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: that Elon Musk has his own competing AI thing, and 553 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: even amid all these tweets, is threatening to you know, 554 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: form a partnership with Samsung and create. 555 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 3: His own like a groc phone or something. 556 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 2: So I'm not sure how much of this is just, 557 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: like I said, competitive, maybe. 558 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 4: Jealous, a little bit of jealousy, all right, But let's 559 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 4: break this down though for a second, because it seems 560 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 4: to be setting up like there's like a two one 561 00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 4: one cage match Altman and Cook versus Elon is essentially 562 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 4: would just come down to Cook, who I believe is 563 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 4: pretty fit. 564 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: Cook is fit, but he strikes me as a pretty 565 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 2: you know, he's like a pretty laid back guy. 566 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 3: You know, he's very California. 567 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: I don't killer instinct, and of course Musk as we know, 568 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 2: he's trained on the streets of hard knocks and he 569 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 2: knows all the judo tricks. We've talked about this at 570 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: length of the podcast, so I'm a. 571 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 4: Little concerned you could take the two of them out. 572 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:23,239 Speaker 7: Now. 573 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 3: The question is are we talking about a tag team 574 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 3: or a two on one. 575 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 6: Sam is also younger, but like birthday coming up, they're 576 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 6: both got a little bit of an age different. 577 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, does he have the girth though? 578 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 8: To man? 579 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 4: Okay, before we move off the feud, beyond all the 580 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 4: oddity of it and the surrealness of it, is there 581 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 4: at the end of the day, anything actually serious about it, 582 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 4: Like could if he really bans these products from from 583 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 4: integrating with his own products? 584 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 3: No, I mean I don't think. 585 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to ban iPhones for from 586 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: Tesla headquarters. I do think like the thing that I started, 587 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: because yesterday I was pretty dismissive of this. It just 588 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: looked like a guy with main character syndrome, you know, 589 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: wanting to be the main character. But today there are 590 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 2: a couple of tweets he was responding to talking about 591 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 2: the prospect, like I said of a partnership with another 592 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: phone company, a groc phone, and that if I were 593 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: a Tesla shareholder, I would be that would give me 594 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: a little pause, because like if Elon Musk starts a 595 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: phone company that's another you know that or like company 596 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: you know and it just starts to make you think like, okay, 597 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: like maybe he's really serious, Like maybe he really does 598 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: intend to take his AI talents to the handset rather 599 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: than building him in the court. 600 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 4: Well, you gotta say this, whether the product's any good 601 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 4: or not, the groc phone sounds pretty damn cool. 602 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: It's just it's so funny that he's like, you can't 603 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 2: trust open the eye. What we need is a chatbot 604 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: that is cooler and that's gonna, you know, solve all 605 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: our problems. 606 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 4: Max Dana, thank you very much, Thank you great to 607 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 4: be here. This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi 608 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 4: Shaven and Rayhan Harmans are senior editors. The idea for 609 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 4: this very show also came from Rayhan Blake Maples handles engineering, 610 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 4: and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Crocott, Antonio 611 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 4: Muffarech and Arafat Jalasho Perry. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. 612 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 4: The Elon Inc. Theme is written and performed by Taka 613 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 4: Yasuzawa and Alex Subiira. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, 614 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 4: and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. I'm 615 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 4: David Papadoppolis. If you have a minute, rate and review 616 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 4: our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you 617 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 4: next week.