WEBVTT - What is a Supply Chain? 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.840 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.720 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland, an executive producer with How 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:18.520 Stuff Works in My Heart Radio and I love all 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.279 things tech, And you know, the world of technology can 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.319 be pretty complicated at times, which is part of the 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.320 reason why I think my colleagues at How Stuff Works 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.160 back in the old days weren't really eager to jump 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.559 on that particular category when we were figuring out who 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.559 should be the head writer for each channel of subject 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.640 matter on the website. But I argue that once you 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.800 get past certain thresholds, a lot of the basic principles 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.280 underlying technology become fairly easy to grasp, and it's really 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.280 easy to apply them to different areas. So really there's 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.640 a barrier. But once you get beyond that barrier, things 0:00:54.640 --> 0:01:00.640 are relatively simple. But one thing that is deceptively implicated 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.200 is the supply chain. Now, you may have heard stories 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.959 of companies having to deal with issues involving supply chains, 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.559 but what does that actually mean. What is a supply chain. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.040 It's not just something that's restricted to the world of technology. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.160 Supply chains are in all sorts of businesses, but in 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.160 tech we see how these challenges in supply chains can 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.600 play out pretty easily, and it is frequently a matter 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.160 of headlines and tech news. So to answer these questions 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.720 you know, about what a supply chain is, I turned 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:35.200 to John Bermudez of trace Link. He's the general manager 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.920 of trace links digital network platform, and trace link provides 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.119 many services, including ways to manage a supply chain. So 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:46.400 here's our interview. John. Welcome to tech Stuff, and thank 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.880 you for joining us today. Very happy to be here, 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.960 thanks for inviting us. Absolutely. So the first question I 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.200 have for you is really a very high level question. Uh, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.600 and it's simply because a lot of my listeners they 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.360 come at the world as you know, a user slash 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.360 consumer slash customer kind of approach, so they're not necessarily 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.960 thinking about all the moving parts that make business in 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.880 the twenty one century work. So if you had to 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.520 explain to somebody who was completely ignorant of that world 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:25.200 what supply chain actually means, how would you do that? Well, 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.120 it's a great question. So years ago, my three year 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.079 old son when I was trying to get him to bed, 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.320 which if you have kids, you know that they don't 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.280 really ask you any questions and until you're trying to 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.600 get to brush your teeth. So he asked me, because, Dad, 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.240 where are you going to Marston. I'm going to Cowboy 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.720 to speak about supply chain. He goes, what supply chain? 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.120 He said, well, Eric, this toothpaste tube is almost empty. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.240 So when we go and buy another one at market basket, Uh, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.359 the people at market basket need to have one, because 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.840 we bought one there last time. So the process of 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.200 getting that toothpaste to to market Basket from the manufacturer, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.680 maybe through a ware house, is the process of supply chain, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.799 of which my three year old looked at me and said, Dad, 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:10.120 and you grew up, you should be a fireman. Quite simply, 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.880 supply chain is about getting product from its raw materials 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.920 through the various manufactus to the ends to the end consumers. So, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:23.359 whether it's a consumer good something relatively simple like m 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.600 bottle a can of coke zero which comes to a 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.320 bottling plant which receives the secret formula from the secret 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.200 coke manufacturing sites and then put in cans and deliver 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:39.600 it to comedian stores and supermarkets um, or whether it's 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.960 something much more complex like trace link is involved in 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:47.000 where you have pharmaceutical supply chains that have many participants 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.080 and obviously going to make sure that life saving drugs 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.280 get to the many different points at which they need 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.200 to be, whether it's pharmacies, hospitals, clinics, uh you know, 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:03.520 shift around the world to uh A deal with emergency situation. 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.320 So supply chain is the process of getting things where 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.800 they need to be. Yeah, and as I understand it, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.440 it's it's one of those things that can be fairly 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:16.719 simple or incredibly complicated, depending upon the scale and the 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.159 necessities of any given products. So for example, in my 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.160 sphere in the technology world, when we talk about things 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.480 like personal computers are are a great example, or mobile phones. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.760 These are things that we as consumers often think of 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.320 as coming from a single source. Right. You get an 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.320 iPhone from Apple, and that's where you go, and that's 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.040 where it comes from, and there's someplace a little Apple 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.440 manufacturing facility, and these come out fully formed after they 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.960 do whatever magical thing it is they do. But in reality, 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.880 what you're talking about is the combination of lots of 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.359 different elements, many of which are coming from different places 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.760 all around the world, that all have to come together 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.800 in order to be assembled into this final product that 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.160 we get our hands on. And that's just in the 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.560 world of technology. This is obviously something that applies across 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:10.279 the board to lots of different industries. And I would 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.640 imagine that today with the global economy, that we have 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.839 the fact that we have facilities all around the world 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.679 that participate in this economy, maybe they're providing one small 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:27.200 part of an overall large package that that can get 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:33.360 very very complex very quickly. Is that a fairly accurate assessment. Yeah, absolutely, 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.800 And your example of iPhone is a great example. Yet 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.160 there are hundreds of little parts in there. If you 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.800 wherever unfortunate to drop and break yours, you'll see that 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.440 there are lots of tiny, very sophisticated parts in there 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.440 that come from dozens of suppliers. And there's also a 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.800 timing element, because if you think about Apple and their 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.040 new iPhone launches, you know they plan these, uh and 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.520 our tract you know, by millions of people. If they're 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.200 gonna have a launch on September or ten, hundreds of 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.160 millions of people expecting product to be in stores around 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.359 the world on September ten. So not only do you 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.760 have to get hundreds of parts from lots of suppliers 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.760 in different parts of the world and then get them 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.520 to a factory. But on top of that, you have 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.640 to maybe make five or ten million of these iPhones 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.320 and then get them to thousands of distributions to stores 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.960 and do it all to make sure they're they're on 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:28.719 September tent. So there's a timing element which sometimes you 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.040 could say, what in the apple case, somewhat self imposed. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.520 They like the drama of having people camping out outside 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.480 the stores. But another supply chains, which seems simple. They 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.640 think about, you know, fresh pineapple coming from Hawaii that 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.360 cannot stay on a ship for six months and get lost. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.640 It needs to move very quickly through the supply chain, 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.600 through distribution centers and end up on a store shelf 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.640 in a relatively short uh segment of time. So even 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.440 the simplest supply chains are not as simple as a seem. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:04.200 You know, I spend time in Asia with simple things 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.760 like fashion supply chain. You think, well, how complicated is 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.760 to make a pair of yoga pads? Well, um, you 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.520 know they're made in factories in Malaysia and China. They 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.440 have the many very different sizes and colors. They have 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:22.000 hang tags destined for hundreds of countries around the world 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.440 with different pricing and different languages on them. Uh and 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.600 then also the fashion industry has gone into a mode 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.640 where it wants to change fashions ten, fifteen, twenty times 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.520 a year. The state of the art in the fashion 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.840 industry as a company that's changing fashions almost fifty times 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.800 a year. So if that product is stuck in the 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.720 supply chain and UH and miss is the fashion window, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.600 it goes from being a very valuable pair of of 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.679 workout gear that sells for a hundred dollars just something 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.640 that ends up at the discount rack for twenty dollars. 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.840 And obviously nobody makes any money at that. So even 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.120 simple products UM have can have pretty complex elements to 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.720 their supply chain. And then on top of that you 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:09.240 have all the added complications that come into things like 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.800 whether or not tariffs are a part of it. We 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.760 talk a little bit about pharmaceuticals. Obviously, with pharmaceuticals you 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:23.400 have very real concerns about validity and quality issues to 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.800 make certain that the the the various components that are 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.480 coming together to make drugs are safe for a consumption. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.640 This sounds like it can very rapidly become a logistical 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.559 nightmare if you're trying to manage all of this. So 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.000 can you talk to me a little bit about the 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.319 approach to solving this where you're you've got this this 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.520 complex web that if everything is working great, it's fine, 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.360 every smooth sailing. But as we know in the real world, 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.560 it it rarely does everything work great all the time. 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.560 Usually there's going to be some issues somewhere along the line, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.280 and it's important to know where that's happening and how 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.200 to respond to it in a timely way. So talk 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.080 a little a little bit about that sort of approach 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.880 to solving this very difficult challenge. Well, just providing a 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.520 little history that the approach up until recently had been 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:21.599 to try to run these problems through very large, complex 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.080 supply chain planning software that we kind of tell you 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.080 where everything needed to be, when to order things, when 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.440 to move things. But as you pointed out, it turned 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.520 out that model is just too complex and these problem 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.160 these solutions would run forever. So the trend now is 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.600 to put these uh and manage the execution these supply 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.080 chains across real time networks so that you can get 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:50.240 real time information. You know, a real time example is UH. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.240 You know tariffs. You know, tariff can pop up in 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.160 a week. So a supply chain that was moving running 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.400 smoothly now is sitting waiting for tariff UH documentation to 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.000 get from through from one country to the next. So 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.080 it may add a week to that supply chain, and 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.160 maybe despite chain cannot afford a week. So what you 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.120 might end up doing with that if it was destined 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.080 to go in a container on a container ship. You 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.000 see this the the advantage of having your real time 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.760 network that can reach out and know where that product is. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.520 You can then route it to UH to air cargo 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.680 and fly it. You can't do anything about the tariff, 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.199 you can't do anything about the time it takes forward 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.480 to get through the inspection center, but you can route 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.520 it to to air cargo and change the amount of 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.280 time and it's going to spend in transit. So it's 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.120 really you're seeing a trend in real time networks to 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.760 provide much more visibility. Because supply chains are complex, many 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.280 things can disrupt them. UH and you know we've leaned 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.560 out supply chains to a point. You know, part of 0:10:55.600 --> 0:11:02.040 the just in time good inventory management practices of the eighties, nineties, 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.160 and two thousands have made for very streamline supply chains. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.800 But then you know, they can be disrupted pretty easily. 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.720 Um and it can cost you know, millions of dollars 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.480 to a company that, um, just depending on something being 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.360 there what it's supposed to be. So the network allows 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.719 you to see where it is, provide real time collaboration 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.160 with the various parties to get it, you know, so 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.439 it's not just the supplier who made it and the 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.640 finished goods manufacturer or the consumer that wants it, but 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:42.880 the logistics providers people provide customs documentation or making sure 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:47.320 that the two countries have a training agreement. You know, 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.559 there are countries that will not take products sourced in 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:55.079 other countries, so, um, you need to make sure it's 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:56.840 not destined for a country that's going to block it 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.000 at the port. And real time networks are helping company 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.200 these deal with that. Yeah. I I've often I've done 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:08.560 episodes in the past about a lot of of like 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:15.440 crowdfunded campaigns for physical products and how I think a 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.920 lot of people who go into that they don't have 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.559 this background in the manufacturing world. They have a clear 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.720 idea of what it is they want to do. They've 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.600 built a prototype in the prototype works, but they don't 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.640 necessarily have a full appreciation of how complicated this can get, 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.120 and UH in inevitably these end up being some of 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.800 those stories that end up in the top ten lists 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.080 of failures and crowdfunding. Right like you see stories about 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.600 companies or or would be companies that crash and burn 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:51.920 because they encounter these these problems that U can quickly 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.080 throw off a timeline, and as we've seen in crowdfunding, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.760 often people who back them are not the most forgiving 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.240 of of UH investors in a company. So to me, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.760 it's it's having this understanding is key of how this 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.800 is UH something that people have to keep in mind 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.200 if they're getting involved in any sense in in manufacturing, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.559 because it allows you to build in those buffers and 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.680 to also be able to communicate in a transparent way 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.719 to perhaps a group of investors in the case of 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.079 a crowdfunding campaign, about what is going on and why 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.360 it is UH something that is taking more time than 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:37.480 was anticipated. I'm also curious I know that there's been 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.760 a lot of talk about using blockchain technology in UH 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.240 in an effort to manage things like supply chains and 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.800 blockchain I think is one of those those words that 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.960 a lot of people have heard a great deal about, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.360 but they don't have a very deep understanding of what 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.440 it means, and they it's hard to visualize how that 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.559 is useful in UH management of a supply chain, verifying 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.880 when and where UH products have left particular facilities. Can 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.120 you speak a little bit about the use of block 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.600 chain in supply chain management and why it is so promising? Yeah, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:17.160 you're right. There's a lot of talk about it in 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.440 supply chain, and I spent a lot of time looking 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.720 at it, and you know, there's a lot of pilots 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.040 that I think will go nowhere because they don't really 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.560 have a value proposition that there is an easier way 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.720 to solve the same problem. You know, where blockchain does 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.040 apply and actually at trade Link we have a pilot 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.680 with a number of companies and also involves the FDA. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.000 Is where train where supply chain makes sense or blockchain 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.120 makes sense in supply chain is where you need to 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.600 share um information between multiple parties, and you may not 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.680 want all parties to know where the information came from, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.200 but you want to make sure that every party on 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:59.200 the who gets the information can trust it. So the 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.520 example UH is and I'm gonna have to get a 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.200 little technical here on the pharmaceutical supply chain, but about 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.680 seven eight years ago, there was a requirement that all 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.160 lots and and serial numbers be tracked throughout the supply 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:17.360 chain so that we could combat mostly counterfeit drugs, diverted drugs, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.960 to make sure that the medicines everybody receives are what 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.960 they think they are. So there's actually legislation going in place, 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.720 UH in three in the United States and it will 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.880 fast follow throughout the rest of the world. So that 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.119 UM a pharmacy, if you go to UH your neighborhood 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:39.480 pharmacy and you're concerned about where that medicine you would 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.760 just received came from, they would be able to call 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:46.000 up a history of all the steps that it went through. 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.800 So UH, the pharmacutical supply chain, it is pretty complicated. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:51.760 I won't get into the details of that, but it 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.800 goes through multiple parties, from where the original ingredients come from, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:00.720 to the manufacturers, wholesalers and every in various part reeason between. 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:06.200 So blockchain is we're actually piloting a blockchain UH project 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:11.520 with about twenty other players in the pharmaceutical industry, you know, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.280 to meet this FDA requirement that the pharmacy to be 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.920 able to tell you, uh, you know, when each stage 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.640 of the of the supply chain process happened, uh, and 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.480 that and validate the data that there was no um 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.720 that it can be traced back to an origin because 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:35.160 often with counterfeit drugs, even things that are serialized, when 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.800 you try to chase trace them back, you find that 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:44.560 they just magically appeared somewhere. So magically appearing is good 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.680 for lepre cons, but it's not it's not good for 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.720 anything you want to put in your body to help 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.240 you with the illness. So so that's a great example 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.640 how blockchain can be used in the supply chain because 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.600 it's it's shielding the information and I won't get into 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:07.639 the detail, but various parties don't necessarily want to be UM. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.320 You want the fact that they're just part of the 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.159 supply chain disclosed for competitive reasons or other reasons. So 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.879 the blockchain will allow us to validate that this is 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.240 a legitimate product. And there's an entire chain of custody 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:26.120 history here that the blockchain application can validate without having 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:32.679 to disclose you know which distributor supplied the pharmacy, because 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:37.680 you might be uh, you know, Brand B distributor using 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.680 your local pharmacy, thinking Brand B is supplying this pharmacy, 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.080 only to find out that this product came from Brand 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:48.439 c UH wholesaler and you're questioning why that is. Well, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.080 you you wouldn't know that, but you will know that 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.760 this is an an active product. So you'll see a 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.720 lot of the A lot of the successful blockchain projects 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.600 and supply chain I think will be oriented around the 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:08.160 chain of custody and being able to validate um from 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:13.320 source to consumption that this uh that the product has 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:17.840 pedigree without having to know, you know, without you having 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.840 to know where exactly it came from. Now, the you know, 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.840 the FDA currently requires the pharmacy to know where it 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.040 got it from, and they could tell you that, but 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:34.400 one step back, there's no current requirement that the pharmacy knows, say, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.560 for example, where the wholesale about it from. And the 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.240 new law is not going to change that, but it 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.480 will require this pedigree history, so you'll see a lot 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.720 of that. You see uh IBM and MIRSK have been 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:52.880 working on a similar blockchain effort to uh provide chain 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:58.400 of custody of globally shifted items. UM, you know where 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.040 I don't see some of the other projects and supply 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:07.359 chain UM transfer big pieces of information like entire contents 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:12.640 of containers or bills of lading. Uh. That's a lot 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.639 of information to be replicated across many notes in the 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:21.760 supply chain. And um, those projects you know are that 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.560 they're out there, but their success is still people still 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:33.080 questioning storing that much information the story of bitcoin, information 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:38.680 which is actually very much tiny, is consuming our computer 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.639 power than anybody would like to admit. We're going to 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.320 take a quick break from the interview and come back 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.040 with the rest of it, uh in just a moment, 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:59.040 But first let's listen to this word from our sponsor. Okay, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.720 let's get back to my interview with John bermudas of 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.879 trace Link. We're picking up with a quick overview of 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.800 blockchain technology and how it helps parties verify data. So 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.520 basically the whole process in case people out there are 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:20.040 wondering about this whole validation idea is that the block 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.640 chain technology stores information in what are called blocks, and 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.240 you can think of it as the name of the block. 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:32.080 Is the result of a mathematical process that's done on 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.200 all the information that has been inputed into that block, 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.359 and then the succeeding block has that name incorporated into 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:44.800 its process of generating its own name. So, in other words, 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.199 each block in the chain has a reference to a 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:52.640 previous block, meaning that making any alterations trying to change 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.359 the chain is incredibly difficult because not only do you 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.160 have to change the information in the block that you're 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.080 interested in, but every block that follows after. And because 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.880 the blockchain is a distributed ledger, not necessarily across as 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.800 large a network as say bitcoin, but is a distributed 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.440 ledger that multiple parties can see, it is very hard 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.760 to do that on enough uh machines where you can 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.879 alter that in a way that is undetectable. You have 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.000 to essentially have control of more than half of all 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.200 the machines on the system in order to do that, 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.560 and it's that's not an easy task. So that is 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.639 sort of the thought process. I agree with you. I 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:38.040 think that blockchain certainly has its usefulness in things like 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:44.000 the pharmaceutical field, perhaps in things like food chain supply also, 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.959 can you can see some applications there potentially. I do 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.560 think as well, that it is not going to be 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:56.000 the universal UH solution to all supply chain issues, but 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.840 I think that in a few cases it it certainly 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.560 will will meet the requirements that a lot of people 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.439 have in order to verify Yes, in fact, this is 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.879 exactly what it claims to be. This is an a counterfeit, 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:15.080 especially for something as important as medication. Obviously, we want 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.320 to be absolutely certain that that stuff is valid and 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.560 will do what it is uh it claims to do well. 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.639 This is really interesting to me because, again as someone 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.119 from the other side of it, where I get to 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:35.040 enjoy these various products that uh that I I don't 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:36.600 have to spend a whole lot of time thinking about 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:38.960 what actually was required to bring it to the point 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.760 where I could get my grubby little hands on it. 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.199 It is nice to be able to reflect for a 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:49.280 moment how complicated this process is and how much work 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.200 has to go in in order for me to enjoy 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:56.359 that amazing privilege. I get a deeper appreciation for it. 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.320 And it also really reinforces the idea that I am 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.840 never going to have a crowdfunded campaign to launch a 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.960 product ever, because I just can't deal with that level 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:10.160 of stress. UH John, thank you so much for joining 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:14.199 our show and and describing this process. I think it 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.520 really has helped open up my eyes and hopefully the 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.800 eyes of many of my listeners too. You know, the 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.320 work that you do and how you are able to 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:30.359 tackle this very large and and sometimes confusing issue of 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:35.080 managing these supply chains. It's been fascinating. You're quite welcome, 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.800 happy to participate. Thank you for inviting me. Now, at 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:42.719 this point the interview was technically over, but John had 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:46.040 a really good point about the food supply chain that 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:49.160 I wanted to share with you guys. So this little 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:52.440 bit came after our initial conversation, but I think it's 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:56.320 worthwhile including here. I have concerns over the fresh food 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:58.720 block chains that are out there. Oh yeah, because you know, 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:01.800 what one of the things think about is what makes 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.840 the pharmaceutical supply chain. Actually, what Tracer plays a big 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:09.560 part on is the serialization and digital you know, digitally 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:13.679 tracking each serial number through its entire life cycle. The 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.160 challenge that I see with you know, the the fresh 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:23.680 tomato example, is, um, we all hear about these I E. 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:27.080 Coli problems and all these other things, and quite often 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:33.560 they start in the field. So um, getting that digital 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.760 uh blockchain update that it came from this particular field. 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.400 You know, nobody has provided me with an idea how 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:46.720 that's going to happen. We're picking the tomatoes are hand picked, um, 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:49.080 and they go in boxes and then the boxes go 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.639 on trucks and they probably go to a packing center 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:55.280