Speaker 1: The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club Cowboys. He's the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war room for incenter
Speaker 1: news and trapped analysis from deep within the confines of
Speaker 1: Cowboys headquarters at the Star in Fresco. And now your
Speaker 1: hosts Brian brought us, Jeff Kavanaugh, Kyle Yeomans, and David Hellman.
Speaker 1: Somebody is always gonna think your trash worse from Liberty
Speaker 1: quarterback Malik Willis, that is that is what is on
Speaker 1: my mind here day two of the NFL Combine, Day
Speaker 1: two of the Draft Show. Welcome in, everybody. I am
Speaker 1: Dave Hellman, your host. I am joined once again by
Speaker 1: Kyle Yeoman's and the incomparable Dane Brugler from the Athletic
Speaker 1: Fellow Us. You're not trash, somebody thinks I am. Though
Speaker 1: that's the beauty of it. Somewhere there's always somebody out there.
Speaker 1: No one at this table thinks that. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Somebody at home listening to this
Speaker 1: is like, you know what, Dave, You're right, absolutely, Tad
Speaker 1: oh oh Man. You don't have to jump right in don't.
Speaker 1: Don't look at that. But yeah, see, but nobody thinks
Speaker 1: about day that way. There's no way. Yeah, there's there's
Speaker 1: some there's somebody. There's plenty for me, I know that.
Speaker 1: But somebody back at Mount Union is just like that
Speaker 1: Brugler guy. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure we will name names.
Speaker 1: They exist. That got way off the rails, way faster
Speaker 1: than I meant to. But so two thoughts. All right,
Speaker 1: we're once again here. I mean, you don't need me
Speaker 1: to set the stage, but I will. We're at the
Speaker 1: Indianapolis Convention Center again. The combine is slowly but surely
Speaker 1: sort of cranking into life. That's the frustration of this
Speaker 1: is like, as the combine has become a bigger and
Speaker 1: bigger deal, they've actually pushed the workouts into the weekend
Speaker 1: and as a result, we're here just we're just desperate
Speaker 1: to see some sort of anything on field activity. In
Speaker 1: lieu of that, we did we did start to talk
Speaker 1: to prospects today. The wide receivers talk to the media,
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks talk to the media. Malik Willis with my
Speaker 1: favorite quote of the year to this point. I think
Speaker 1: it's very wise from a guy that is going to
Speaker 1: have his game picked apart for the next three months
Speaker 1: until he's finally drafted. I guess two months at this point.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so as we sort of sit here and
Speaker 1: wait for more action to develop, what do you make
Speaker 1: of of what we saw today? And we can start
Speaker 1: with the quarterbacks if y'all want to. Again, the most
Speaker 1: enigmatic class I can remember in a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know that there was anything groundbreaking
Speaker 1: from these quarterbacks today. You know, Kenny Pickett from Pitt,
Speaker 1: unsurprisingly was the most polished I thought in terms of
Speaker 1: the interviews and commanding the room and that type of thing.
Speaker 1: You know, fifth year senior, he's been around sound, he
Speaker 1: knows the drill, very comfortable with everything. But and that's
Speaker 1: not to say these other quarterbacks weren't. I thought they
Speaker 1: handled themselves. Well. Uh. You know, I give Carson Strong
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for being as upfront as he
Speaker 1: is about the knee things like that. You know, he
Speaker 1: doesn't hide from it, and that's something that I respect
Speaker 1: him for. That now that that could end up affecting
Speaker 1: where he's drafted, but um, you know, I give him
Speaker 1: credit for being you know, very open about it. You know,
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter all these quarterbacks, I thought they did well.
Speaker 1: Nothing really stood out to me anything for you. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of along the same lines Carson Strong and the
Speaker 1: way that the knee has kind of been a red
Speaker 1: flag on him throughout this draft process. He's one of
Speaker 1: those guys, depending on who you talk to, is one
Speaker 1: of those mid range quarterbacks that could take a jump
Speaker 1: whether or not he's he's healthy and what the medicals
Speaker 1: end up showing throughout the week here in Indianapolis. And
Speaker 1: like you said, he was upfront. He said it. He said,
Speaker 1: my knee's not gonna fall off. I'm good to go.
Speaker 1: I've been cleared. I'm gonna do all the testing I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go through all of this throughout the week in
Speaker 1: order to show that I am good to go. He
Speaker 1: played without a brace in Mobile during the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: He thought that was a big step moving into what
Speaker 1: is now the draft process. And he feels like he's
Speaker 1: put it out there. And it's funny you mentioned the
Speaker 1: Malik Willis quote about everybody thinks you're trash. He had
Speaker 1: another one that I thought was really funny. Somebody, sorry,
Speaker 1: not everybody. You're right, I'm I'm speaking from my fall
Speaker 1: in love with that young man. I'm starting. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think he's a great guy, and I have a past
Speaker 1: relationship just from the play by play side of things
Speaker 1: with Malik and I I've liked him from a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago at that point, and uh, he said
Speaker 1: another thing later on, somebody asked him if he's the
Speaker 1: top quarterback in the draft. He goes, I certainly think
Speaker 1: I'm the top quarterback in the draft, but I'm not
Speaker 1: the guy's making the decisions, and I hate that for me.
Speaker 1: He was. He was very upfright. He's like, I hate
Speaker 1: that for myself, the fact that I'm not the one
Speaker 1: making the decisions. But I think it's a very heady
Speaker 1: quarterback class. And you saw today with the media interviews,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of smarts, a lot of football IQ
Speaker 1: amongst this class. It's due the on field traits match
Speaker 1: the IQ. I think you're gonna have a lot of
Speaker 1: smart guys in the class, but maybe they're just not
Speaker 1: the athletic freak shows that you've seen and maybe some
Speaker 1: of the classes of old Dan, You're a perfect person
Speaker 1: to ask about this because I think something that jumped
Speaker 1: out to me. Kenny Pickett talked about talking to Peyton
Speaker 1: Manning about going back to school obviously paid off tremendously
Speaker 1: for him, acc Player of the Year, Heisman candidate, and
Speaker 1: played his way into the first round of the draft. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'll be very honest, I don't remember that really even
Speaker 1: being a conversation, like ironically reminds me of Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: a little bit because it go back to twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: We were thinking about Joe as like maybe like a
Speaker 1: third round pick or worse, and played his way to
Speaker 1: number one overall. What was your opinion of Kenny Pickett
Speaker 1: before he came back for twenty twenty one. I liked
Speaker 1: him quite a bit. I had a relatively speaking, I
Speaker 1: thought he was, you know, fourth fifth round. I thought
Speaker 1: he was a guy that's gonna be a career backup
Speaker 1: in the league. So I did like him. But to
Speaker 1: see this type of improvement for him as a senior
Speaker 1: and I talked. I spent some time with his offensive coordinator,
Speaker 1: Mark Whipple um during the season to get a better
Speaker 1: sense for Okay, what changed, what's different about Kenny Pickett
Speaker 1: this year? And Mark Whipple who who spend some time
Speaker 1: in the NFL as a quarterback coach, so he's got
Speaker 1: some interesting experience there. He basically just boiled it down
Speaker 1: to that you can't put any type of timeline on
Speaker 1: terms of experience, Like just having that extra year gave
Speaker 1: just things started to click for him in terms of
Speaker 1: seeing things quicker, understanding what the defense is trying to do.
Speaker 1: I thought the offensive line played much better for Pitt
Speaker 1: this year, so he had a little bit of extra
Speaker 1: time to operate from the pocket. I think, you know
Speaker 1: brought up Joe Burrow in the difference that he made
Speaker 1: from his junior year to his senior year. Kenny Pickett
Speaker 1: it not is drastic, but similar in terms of the
Speaker 1: improvements that he made. You just can't put a price
Speaker 1: on experience and what that means, especially for a quarterback,
Speaker 1: because the more you see, the quicker you can eliminate things,
Speaker 1: the quicker you understand where you need to go with
Speaker 1: the football. And I think with Kenny Pickett, things really
Speaker 1: clicked for him. Now, what's his ceiling as a player,
Speaker 1: That's the big question. I think he has clearly the
Speaker 1: highest floor of any draft or any quarterback in this draft.
Speaker 1: But is he the type of guy that can lead
Speaker 1: you to the playoffs? Is he the type of guy
Speaker 1: that can lead you to, you know, and beyond Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I just find it very hard
Speaker 1: to have any conviction in any of these quarterbacks this
Speaker 1: year in terms of them ever becoming a top fifteen
Speaker 1: quarterback in the NFL. And if you're going to draft
Speaker 1: a quarterback in the first round, you better believe that,
Speaker 1: you know, at some point during his rookie contract he
Speaker 1: will become a top fifteen quarterback in the NFL. And
Speaker 1: I just don't know how you could have any confidence
Speaker 1: in these guys and say that. And so if I'm
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, I'm feeling pretty darn good that I've got
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott in my quarterback. This is not the not
Speaker 1: the offseason to need a quarterback, it really is. It's
Speaker 1: a blessing in the guys. We were talking to some
Speaker 1: of the reporters around the league earlier about that as well.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, this is nice. We're getting to listen
Speaker 1: to the quarterbacks. But we don't necessarily have to scout
Speaker 1: these quarterbacks as much as we would on a normal occasion.
Speaker 1: It's been that way, of course, for quite some time.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people would look at Kinney Picket
Speaker 1: and of course he's benefiting from a weaker quarterback class.
Speaker 1: But I'm looking at my list from last year. I
Speaker 1: had him as a top ten quarterback before I knew
Speaker 1: he was going to go back to college. So he's
Speaker 1: always been at the top of that list. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's probably been that way. You said you liked him
Speaker 1: before he elected to return as well, So he has
Speaker 1: some of those traits that a starting quarterback in the
Speaker 1: NFL could certainly have. It goes back to what I
Speaker 1: was saying earlier. He's a smart player. He has the confidence,
Speaker 1: he has the experience. Does he have the physical traits
Speaker 1: to match with all of that that can allow him
Speaker 1: to have the top fifteen caliber career by the time
Speaker 1: he's done with the rookie deal. Because I agree with
Speaker 1: Dane and wholeheartedly, I don't see a quarterba back in
Speaker 1: this draft. Maybe with the exception, and if there's two exceptions,
Speaker 1: it would be pick it. It would probably be Malik Willis.
Speaker 1: That can maybe be in that conversation, but sure, that's fine.
Speaker 1: I would throw him maybe on the edge there. I
Speaker 1: like Willis and pick it better in my opinion, but
Speaker 1: I would still throw at least I'll just to say,
Speaker 1: because he's my third, I'll throw three quarterbacks in there,
Speaker 1: and even then I still think they're borderline top fifteen
Speaker 1: at best. So it does provide for an interesting thought
Speaker 1: process with a premium position being so low throughout the
Speaker 1: entire draft class. That is absolutely terrifying when you think
Speaker 1: about it, because, like the nature of the position, two
Speaker 1: or three of these guys will get drafted in the
Speaker 1: first round, right, and you're telling me that you have
Speaker 1: no confidence that any of them can be in the
Speaker 1: upper echelon starting quarterback. Yeah, and that's me, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure of course, but but just but I
Speaker 1: think most somebody with you. Yeah, I think it speaks
Speaker 1: to you know, all the different ice cream flavors. You know,
Speaker 1: it's you're gonna teams are gonna look at these quarterbacks
Speaker 1: differently and what they offer. One team will look at
Speaker 1: Kenny Pickett and say, you know what, he's gonna help
Speaker 1: us compete. He's gonna help us compete for eight, nine,
Speaker 1: ten wins every single year, and we'll take that compared
Speaker 1: to what we have right now. While another team will
Speaker 1: look at that and say, I don't know that's quite
Speaker 1: good enough for us. You know, you look at this
Speaker 1: team like the Steelers who have had a Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame caliber quarterback for how many years? Now? Is Kenny
Speaker 1: Picktt good enough for what they would want to upgrade
Speaker 1: the quarterback position or do they think pick It is
Speaker 1: good enough? So each each team that needs a quarterback
Speaker 1: is gonna look at this class differently. Not everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: be on on board with waiting for Malik will because
Speaker 1: he Malik Willis really shouldn't see the NFL field as
Speaker 1: a rookie. He's just not ready, or team's gonna be
Speaker 1: ready to let them sit and wait. A lot of
Speaker 1: teams won't be that patient, other teams might be. So
Speaker 1: it's teams are gonna look at these quarterbacks differently and
Speaker 1: have wildly different opinions, just like a lot of us.
Speaker 1: Do you have a class in the past that you
Speaker 1: could compare this quarterback group too, that that where it's
Speaker 1: kind of that same sort of mentality. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: the worst quarterback class that I've ever covered was twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: That was the EJ Manual. You know, you know he
Speaker 1: was a first round bus but it's not his fault.
Speaker 1: He shouldn't have been taken in the first round to
Speaker 1: begin with. But that's Matt Barkley, Ryan Nass of Gino
Speaker 1: Smith and those are, like, you know, the top quarterbacks
Speaker 1: that year. So this quarterback class is better than that
Speaker 1: to step up from that. But man, does it look
Speaker 1: like a huge step down compared to what we saw
Speaker 1: last year with five quarterbacks in the top fifteen. Uh
Speaker 1: you know a guy like Trevor Lawrence and everything he offers. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Zach Wilson and Justin Fields and Trey Lance
Speaker 1: and so yeah, it's just a it's a tough quarterback
Speaker 1: class to really get excited about. But you know what,
Speaker 1: quarterback desperation is a real thing throughout this league. And
Speaker 1: that's why I'm putting the over under at ten when
Speaker 1: we see the first quarterback drafted. Yeah, which and that
Speaker 1: you know you can you can roll your eyes up
Speaker 1: all all you want about it if you're a cowboy fan.
Speaker 1: I'm still fascinated by this quarterback conversation because I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with pushing players down the board. You want as many
Speaker 1: as you can, and so, okay, so you put it
Speaker 1: at ten like over under ten. And we did this
Speaker 1: exercise on a show a few weeks ago where I
Speaker 1: basically I forced the guys to give me their players
Speaker 1: that they feel like our locks to go before the
Speaker 1: Cowboys pick, Like you don't even think about it. And
Speaker 1: I think we we came up with two. I think
Speaker 1: we didn't name the quarterbacks right too? Wow? Okay, that's
Speaker 1: the number we came up with, wasn't it with two players? Two?
Speaker 1: Two quarters? Yes? Sorry? Yeah, I think I think the
Speaker 1: final players I thought. I was like, there's probably ten
Speaker 1: names we put out. I think the final list of
Speaker 1: players was twelve if I remember, but it was, but
Speaker 1: I think it was ten with two quarterbacks? Is the point?
Speaker 1: And so how do you feel about that? And if
Speaker 1: you had to guess, can you And I know you can't,
Speaker 1: but I'm asking you anyway, can you envision landing spots
Speaker 1: for some of these guys? And if so, how many? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think That's why I put the over under at
Speaker 1: ten is because I think when you look at the
Speaker 1: team's picking the first nine picks, you've got Carolina at six,
Speaker 1: Denver at nine, two possible spots for a quarterback, and
Speaker 1: then Washington at eleven. Washington has been, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to figure out the quarterback position for a lot of years. Now,
Speaker 1: what do they feel good enough at one of these
Speaker 1: quarterbacks to go that direction at eleven. Maybe I think
Speaker 1: that's maybe the most likely spot where we see a
Speaker 1: quarterback off the board. But I think there's a good
Speaker 1: chance we only see one quarterback in the top twenty
Speaker 1: three picks. I really do. I don't. I don't know that.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe we do. You know, the Steelers obviously
Speaker 1: that's the direction they could go if they love one
Speaker 1: of these one of these quarterbacks. But so let's just okay,
Speaker 1: let's plan it out. We've got um Let's just say
Speaker 1: the first quarterback comes off the board at eleven. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's Washington, Yep. Let's say they go Kenny Pickin. Let's
Speaker 1: say they go the high floor. They figure he's an
Speaker 1: upgrade over what we have right now. You know, we'll
Speaker 1: ll die some that. Uh. Let's say next quarterback Steelers
Speaker 1: Malik Willis. Uh, because I don't, I don't know that.
Speaker 1: You know, the Saints are interesting spot with you know,
Speaker 1: new coaching staff. Uh, you know what, Jameis Winson's a
Speaker 1: free agent. What what direction do they go with a
Speaker 1: with really really a brand new, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: face to that that what they are as an identity
Speaker 1: as a team. Are they really going to throw a
Speaker 1: first round pick at a at a quarterback this year?
Speaker 1: It's possible, but I don't know that they will. Pittsburgh's interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't think Philadelphia goes quarterback. Um So, New Orleans
Speaker 1: or the or the Steelers look like the next likely
Speaker 1: bet for a quarterback. And let's say it's Malik Willis
Speaker 1: um So, I guess saying two quarterbacks off the board
Speaker 1: in the first twenty three picks. I think that's a
Speaker 1: fair uh projection at this point. That still doesn't make
Speaker 1: me feel any better. That makes me feel like eleven
Speaker 1: is most likely, and even that's not a lock sure
Speaker 1: for it to be a quarterback. And then I was
Speaker 1: thinking the same thing New Orleans. It depends on whether
Speaker 1: or not they want Jamis Instant back in. That's that
Speaker 1: locker room, because I don't think they would go back
Speaker 1: through the Taysom Hill experiment again. Might Payton not there?
Speaker 1: I think that I think we can probably call it.
Speaker 1: I think we can call that a day. I agree,
Speaker 1: and so that's probably just as likely as Pittsburgh. But
Speaker 1: either neither one of those are really intriguing to pick
Speaker 1: before twenty three See I disagree, Just be like, you
Speaker 1: know how every like you know how you like kind
Speaker 1: of fall in love with an idea during you falling
Speaker 1: in love with an idea. I love the idea of
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh taking a quarterback, and preferably Willis for me. Dan
Speaker 1: just said probably shouldn't play. The Steelers have the foundation
Speaker 1: to where he doesn't need to play. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: Mason Rudolph is good and Dwayne Haskins certainly not for
Speaker 1: that matter, but like they have guys in house that
Speaker 1: can handle it. They've got a nasty defense, like they
Speaker 1: got to the playoffs this year with Ben Roethlisberger just
Speaker 1: shot putting the ball, took a running back at twenty
Speaker 1: four last year, So right, I think they have the opportunity.
Speaker 1: The bigger question might beat you. They have to move
Speaker 1: up up to get their quarterback and stay put at
Speaker 1: twenty and you know say, yeah, we feel good our
Speaker 1: guy will be there. Do they risk that? Do they
Speaker 1: feel like they need to go up and get them? Um?
Speaker 1: You know we've seen the Steelers when they really want
Speaker 1: a player, they will go up again with Troy Paulamalu Devins,
Speaker 1: We've seen them do it before. So Uh. That to me,
Speaker 1: that might be the bigger question with the Steelers and
Speaker 1: their quarterback target in this draft. They don't have a
Speaker 1: ton of draft capital. They've got a first, second, third,
Speaker 1: and a fourth comp and then they don't pick again
Speaker 1: until the seventh. So if they're gonna do it, they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to use their future and wage their future
Speaker 1: against it. Yeah, And I think it's also worth noting
Speaker 1: that I don't know that it's going to cost as
Speaker 1: much as year to trade up because teams are gonna
Speaker 1: be so willing to get out of there, you know,
Speaker 1: like if if all you're offering is um, you know.
Speaker 1: So like when the when the Steelers we've love to
Speaker 1: get Devin Bush, I think they only gave up a
Speaker 1: second round pick. I think that's all it took, is
Speaker 1: you know, obviously they swapped first rounds and then an
Speaker 1: extra an extra two. In this year's draft to move
Speaker 1: up seven eight spots, it might only take a third
Speaker 1: to get to do it. When in past drafts to
Speaker 1: go up and get a quarterback, it takes a lot,
Speaker 1: But in this draft, where teams are gonna be more
Speaker 1: willing to get out of there pick up because we
Speaker 1: know the strength of this draft is second, third round.
Speaker 1: Even in the fourth round, where you're gonna get quality depth,
Speaker 1: you might be okay with moving back seven eight spots
Speaker 1: in the first round. Still feel like you're gonna get
Speaker 1: a good player and who you want while picking up
Speaker 1: a third round pick. I like that idea. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you this, and anytime you pick in the back half,
Speaker 1: you're always going to get questions about trading up. Just
Speaker 1: people are always going to do and that's fine, I
Speaker 1: get it. It's intriguing. Do you think do you think
Speaker 1: a team like the Cowboys would be more likely to
Speaker 1: trade up because it could be cheaper this year, or
Speaker 1: more likely to not do that because you look at
Speaker 1: it and say, well, who are we going up for?
Speaker 1: If you're thinking that's an interesting conversation? Is no question.
Speaker 1: If you're trading up in this draft, you better love
Speaker 1: that person. I mean, you better be scared out of
Speaker 1: your wits that he's not going to make it to
Speaker 1: you and have that type of conviction about him. And
Speaker 1: is there that type of player like that in this
Speaker 1: draft and the Cowboys in this draft. It's so fascinating
Speaker 1: because we'll see what happens the next you know, month,
Speaker 1: with wide receiver. You know what happens at tight end?
Speaker 1: What happened several of these key positions that we know
Speaker 1: our potential needs on this roster that hopefully we have
Speaker 1: a better idea a month, month and a half of
Speaker 1: what how they have planned to attack that position moving forward. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, because if one of these receivers that they
Speaker 1: just fall in love with and they see a guy
Speaker 1: that hey can be the difference maker, go get him.
Speaker 1: Got the twinkle in his well, No, I'm hey, Dane
Speaker 1: already brought up my failed love affair with a big
Speaker 1: bodied sec West receiver. I'm just get Trailing Burns. Look,
Speaker 1: I already was developing a draft crush on Trailing Burke's.
Speaker 1: But when I found out that he hunts boars with
Speaker 1: a knife, yea, if you didn't, Kyle, you told me so,
Speaker 1: tell tell the listeners. Yeah, he doesn't just hunt boars
Speaker 1: or hogs. H He goes, was a knife hunts them
Speaker 1: so and he said, it's go go look at the interview.
Speaker 1: It's online, it's somewhere. He doesn't shoot them from afar.
Speaker 1: He liked combat. Yeah, he like tries to deceive it
Speaker 1: and then sneak up on it and just put it
Speaker 1: in a chokehold ultimately, and and I mean it's pretty
Speaker 1: pretty primal. He grew up in terrifying, you know, just
Speaker 1: central Arkansas. Just that's that's that's what they did. I
Speaker 1: think the Jones family is big into boar hunting, so
Speaker 1: I like maybe it's connection and for all the next
Speaker 1: for all of the you know, people love to make
Speaker 1: a big deal about the Jones family going to Arkansas,
Speaker 1: like Felix Jones is the only bad pick they've ever
Speaker 1: spent on that programs. I'm just saying, which as long
Speaker 1: as we're doing this, we'll go to break in a minute,
Speaker 1: because we do have a lot of Twitter questions to
Speaker 1: get too. But he's your wide receiver too, Yes, what
Speaker 1: what makes him so? I think when you talk about
Speaker 1: six two and a half sixty three two hundred twenty
Speaker 1: five pounds, um, guys that are that size and move
Speaker 1: like that, because he's gonna run high, four four slow,
Speaker 1: four fives um. Yes, he sees a pretty good conference right.
Speaker 1: I've heard that nobody in the SEC had more explosive
Speaker 1: place more plays of twenty plus yards than him last
Speaker 1: year at twenty twenty one. So he is a big
Speaker 1: play igniter. He's got the speed to run away from guys.
Speaker 1: He's gonna separate down the field. Not the most refined receiver,
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, just getting him the ball, get
Speaker 1: the ball in his hands and let him let him
Speaker 1: do stuff physically, He's impressive. I've been calling him a
Speaker 1: before the Deebo Samuel's comps became like all the rage
Speaker 1: over the last everybody NFL right now in October, I
Speaker 1: was calling this guy the linebacker size Deebo Samuel UM
Speaker 1: and so I think that's what he is. You just
Speaker 1: find ways to get him the ball. And this morning
Speaker 1: during his interview, he said that he mimics. He used
Speaker 1: the word mimic, mimics his game after Deebo Samuel Um.
Speaker 1: So that physicality, that toughness, the play strength, I think
Speaker 1: he brings a lot out of that. Plus he's a blazer.
Speaker 1: He can run really fast at six three twenty five
Speaker 1: to twenty eight. So the if I'm in a war
Speaker 1: room and I need to sell trailing Burkes to the
Speaker 1: rest of the room, it's not gonna be hard. If
Speaker 1: you have to sell it nobody else is watching tape,
Speaker 1: would be my guess. Yeah, all right, I think we
Speaker 1: did a pretty good job, considering still nothing has happened
Speaker 1: at the NFL Combine. Now I want to trade up
Speaker 1: and get in front of Philadelphia and go get Tyler Linderbaum.
Speaker 1: Dane talked me into it. I'm miss, I'm captain. Trade up? Now,
Speaker 1: you want to trade up to the guy? I want
Speaker 1: to go get get me in front of Philadelphia. Let's
Speaker 1: let's make a deal with the Browns at thirteen. Let's
Speaker 1: figure it out. I've got Cleveland across the table. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make a call. I haven't all right. Well, now
Speaker 1: we'll save that. We can do this. We can do this.
Speaker 1: We can do this. In the third segment, what happens
Speaker 1: until then, we've got Twitter questions. We will do that
Speaker 1: right after the break. We'll be right back at Smoothie King.
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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Welcome back to the
Speaker 1: Draft Show. It is Wednesday, March the second. It is
Speaker 1: the second segment of the show. You know what that means.
Speaker 1: We'd like to get our listeners involved. Twitter on the
Speaker 1: twenty Twitter Twitter, Twitter on the twenty You do, you
Speaker 1: do pretty good job with that, just trying to follow
Speaker 1: Jeff's lee. Honestly, that's what I try and do. So
Speaker 1: talking about the depth of the draft, Dane, you said
Speaker 1: this in the first segment, second third, maybe even fourth round,
Speaker 1: and you you did. You talked about the depth of
Speaker 1: the pass rusher position yesterday. If that's if that's where
Speaker 1: you want to go with this, we can, but Troy
Speaker 1: would like to know about a position or positions in
Speaker 1: this draft where you feel like you can get a
Speaker 1: better than expected player on Day three, like maybe fourth round. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think of like Jabriel Cox comes to mind, a
Speaker 1: guy that we absolutely didn't expect to be there on
Speaker 1: Day three. Any positions with depth like that, where we're
Speaker 1: sitting there like, oh my god, like four of my
Speaker 1: five top names on Saturday are are still available and
Speaker 1: I didn't think they would be. I think it starts
Speaker 1: with pass rusher. I mean, that's that's the deepest position
Speaker 1: this year, and so there's a good chance that a
Speaker 1: player you grade as a top one hundred pick in
Speaker 1: this draft is still there in the fourth round because
Speaker 1: there's just there's only so many spots for these guys,
Speaker 1: and a few of them will get pushed down. A
Speaker 1: guy like Josh Pascal from Kentucky six three, two seventy,
Speaker 1: really good run defender all day. In most drafts, he's
Speaker 1: a third round pick, and this draft might be a
Speaker 1: fourth round pick. I think linebacker shapes up that way.
Speaker 1: You mentioned JR bo Cox. I mean it could be
Speaker 1: a similar thing this year where a linebacker like U, say,
Speaker 1: Troy Anderson from Montana State. You know, maybe he falls
Speaker 1: to the fourth round. He's he's a raw player, but
Speaker 1: when you look at the athletic traits and what he's
Speaker 1: going to grow into, gets you excited about what he
Speaker 1: could be. I have heard his name a ton and
Speaker 1: he's first of all, the backstory is great. I mean
Speaker 1: he growing up in Montana. He was class valuedatorian, won
Speaker 1: a state title in three different sports. You know that
Speaker 1: do everything guy in high school, goes to Montana State,
Speaker 1: started at quarterback, started at running back. He ranks top
Speaker 1: ten in the school's all time history and rushing yards.
Speaker 1: Moves the lineback, He's set the school record for single
Speaker 1: season rushing touchdowns as a sophomore twenty one, moves a
Speaker 1: linebacker and becomes a full time linebacker for just really
Speaker 1: the past two years or for he missed last year
Speaker 1: with the an injury. So but he has two years
Speaker 1: of experience as a full time linebacker. And you know,
Speaker 1: just don't make many guys that are sixty three and
Speaker 1: a half to fifty that run like he does. And
Speaker 1: I thought he got better and better with the more
Speaker 1: defensive snaps he saw, So another guy that's raw and
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's an instant contributor for you, but again,
Speaker 1: an investment where you feel like you're buying low and
Speaker 1: getting a guy that's gonna blossom for you throughout your
Speaker 1: time in your program. Yeah. I mean, coaches love those
Speaker 1: six three, six four guys two and thirty pounds because
Speaker 1: they can translate it whether it's on offense or defense.
Speaker 1: That just sounds like a special team's ace. I mean
Speaker 1: Troy and if he's not contributing as a starting linebacker
Speaker 1: at some point in his career, he may be your
Speaker 1: best special teams player throughout his career. At the same time,
Speaker 1: maybe c J. Goodwins stuff like that. I was curious.
Speaker 1: I want to hear about the safety position because I
Speaker 1: see that as one of those where there's gonna be
Speaker 1: some really good players. Sterling Weatherford's up there for me,
Speaker 1: Cam Taylor, Brett Kirby, Joseph Leon O'Neil junior from any
Speaker 1: and m These are guys that I think could potentially
Speaker 1: fall into that third, fourth, fifth round that once again
Speaker 1: it's a deep class. Maybe it's got those those top
Speaker 1: heavy guys like Kyle Hamilton, Dax Hill and company. But
Speaker 1: there's that gap and then you can find some real
Speaker 1: value later on as well. Yeah, I think that that's fair.
Speaker 1: I think there are six safeties at the top that
Speaker 1: are kind of the top guys who you're six. Kyle
Speaker 1: Hamilton's at the top, Dax Hills right behind him. I
Speaker 1: think those two are the top guys. Petrie Lewis seen
Speaker 1: from Georgia, Brisker, Brian Cook. That next year would be
Speaker 1: those four guys, and then you know, I really like
Speaker 1: Kirby Joseph as a possible third rounder. Keep the name
Speaker 1: Nick Cross from Maryland on the radar. He's gonna absolutely
Speaker 1: kill it this week at the combine those testing numbers.
Speaker 1: Teams are going to really buy into those. Nick Cross
Speaker 1: is going to be a winner from this week and
Speaker 1: be a guy that you know, we're talked at talking
Speaker 1: more and more about a possible third round pery on
Speaker 1: the Athletic on Monday morning. H J. T. Woods from Baylor. Um,
Speaker 1: you know yesterday how Baylor brought up track team here.
Speaker 1: He's one of those guys. I mean, he's maybe a
Speaker 1: little undersize compared to what most safeties are just body
Speaker 1: type wise, a little slender, but he could absolutely fly
Speaker 1: and he makes plays um. Roan McKinley from Oregon, a
Speaker 1: local kid from Carrollton, Uh, played at heburn. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a guy that's gonna get dinged because he's not
Speaker 1: fast and he's not big. But I think when you
Speaker 1: when you look at his cover awareness, you look at
Speaker 1: the way he can make plays in the ball. It's
Speaker 1: six picks this year, so he can find the ball. Um,
Speaker 1: But he's gonna take a little bit of a hit
Speaker 1: because he doesn't have those elite physical traits. I don't
Speaker 1: think he's going to run this week because probably not
Speaker 1: gonna run great. Yeah, So you know, Ron McKinley would
Speaker 1: be one of those guys once we get out of
Speaker 1: Day one and two in early day three, maybe a
Speaker 1: guy you take a look at. Speaking of Day three selections,
Speaker 1: I liked this question from a Mead a lot. He
Speaker 1: would like you to compare Josh Ball Cowboys fourth round pick,
Speaker 1: red shirt. Really didn't see much of him this year,
Speaker 1: So still not sure what you have, But how would
Speaker 1: he compare in this tackle class? You know, I think
Speaker 1: that's obviously with him. There's you know, uh, off field
Speaker 1: factors and all that, so you know, taking all that
Speaker 1: out of a not into account here, you know, this
Speaker 1: is a tackle class that I think it's one of
Speaker 1: the stronger positions. I think, you know, edge rushers at
Speaker 1: the top, and then I think receiver, linebacker, tackle might
Speaker 1: be my next three. So it's a it's a pretty
Speaker 1: deep tackle group. I think he'd be somewhere after you
Speaker 1: list your top ten tackles and then he could be
Speaker 1: somewhere right after that. So in that eleven to fifteen
Speaker 1: range in terms of the top tackles this year. Um,
Speaker 1: I think that he had so much ability with the
Speaker 1: way he moves, uh that I think that's what you
Speaker 1: bet on. You you bet on those movement skills that
Speaker 1: you know he can mirror in space, he can he
Speaker 1: can hold up verse speed, but also you know, drop
Speaker 1: his anchor when he needs to do versus power. UM.
Speaker 1: So I'm you know, we don't know what what what
Speaker 1: what we have with him. So I think that you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully that there's more clarity moving forward. But I don't
Speaker 1: like him as a player last year in last year's class.
Speaker 1: Trying to look at where I had him last year
Speaker 1: in that class, but I would probably put him around
Speaker 1: I like Braxton Jones at a Southern Utah as as
Speaker 1: a guy kind of right in that middle group. I
Speaker 1: think he would probably fit in behind him in that
Speaker 1: in that category. But still another guy who's a developmental
Speaker 1: player who I mean, of course we've already seen him
Speaker 1: need a red shirt, but he could still turn into
Speaker 1: a depth piece. I don't think he's ever gonna have
Speaker 1: starting caliber players, so i'd probably still say right around
Speaker 1: fifth round, six round class. I think this is a
Speaker 1: better tackle class from a depth perspective than last year's.
Speaker 1: Another guy in this class who I think is very
Speaker 1: comparable as Kellen Dash from Arizona Stage, who doesn't have
Speaker 1: the length that you want, but you talk about foot
Speaker 1: quickness that that very similar to Ball from last year.
Speaker 1: And Dish is a he's a local kid. He's from
Speaker 1: somewhere in the DFW area. He's from Byron Nelson Trophy Club.
Speaker 1: Right right right, there's twenty nine different cities in the DFW.
Speaker 1: I got you if you can't. I appreciate that various
Speaker 1: stewe point from Matt Uh. You know, Matt Zeke Elliott's
Speaker 1: future starts to get murky after the twenty twenty two season,
Speaker 1: Tony Pollard is entering a contract year. With that in mind,
Speaker 1: he would like some names of maybe some mid to
Speaker 1: late round running backs, kind of like Tony was back
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, to keep an eye on. This is
Speaker 1: a pretty good running back class. Um, if you need
Speaker 1: one of those guys. Uh. I don't think we're gonna
Speaker 1: have a first round running back this year. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then there's a few guys that should go on Day two,
Speaker 1: but the value will be on Day three. And it
Speaker 1: depends on you know, what type of back you're looking for.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a guy that can maybe be
Speaker 1: a bell cow for you for you know, a guy
Speaker 1: that can take those carries, maybe what they envisioned when
Speaker 1: they drafted a bow Scarborough. You know that type of guy.
Speaker 1: Abram Smith from Baylor. I think he was hoping you
Speaker 1: would say that name. Tremendous seasons. Yes, he moved over
Speaker 1: from linebacker to running back. I think he's he's only
Speaker 1: his His his arrow continues to point up what he
Speaker 1: did as a senior into what he did a senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: M I won't be a top tester here, but I
Speaker 1: think I'll hold his own. So I think he fits
Speaker 1: in that mold I agree with you completely. He was
Speaker 1: a running back in high school, had kind of played
Speaker 1: both ways, and then was recruited as a running back,
Speaker 1: made the full time switch to linebacker, where he actually
Speaker 1: was very successful as a linebacker as a junior, one
Speaker 1: of the top linebackers in the Big twelve. On of
Speaker 1: course that Baylor defense that has been so vaulted over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. And then they said, you
Speaker 1: know what, we like what you could do with the
Speaker 1: ball in your hands. And then he comes out and
Speaker 1: just casually puts up sixteen hundred yards in his only
Speaker 1: real full time season as the starting running back. And
Speaker 1: he had a split backfield to a certain extent with
Speaker 1: Tristan Edner. What he did he pull the opposite of
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurd Then, yeah, right, yeah, a little bit Baylor guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's he just wanted to get on the field.
Speaker 1: He talked about moving him the linebacker and he said,
Speaker 1: it's it's gonna get me on the field, and I'll
Speaker 1: do it. As soon as Dane was talking about like
Speaker 1: eating up carries and that Bruisers was sort of tailback,
Speaker 1: he was the first one that comes to mind Appleen Kid,
Speaker 1: Kyle and I talked about this in Mobile. I was
Speaker 1: really I impressed. Is maybe strong, but I would I
Speaker 1: liked what I saw from Rashad White, the Arizona State
Speaker 1: guy in Mobile. For as big as he is, I
Speaker 1: just thought he had he had impressive burst for a
Speaker 1: bigger running back. In my opinion, he does. The key
Speaker 1: for him will be catching the ball out of the
Speaker 1: backfield and being that you know that third down guy
Speaker 1: who you know can do different things for you and
Speaker 1: move them outside the out of the backfield. And um,
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I don't I worry about him as
Speaker 1: an inside runner Like I just I'm not sure that
Speaker 1: it's he showed enough for me in terms of the
Speaker 1: vision and the patience and the tempo to consistently give
Speaker 1: you that. So I do worry about. Okay, a Defensei's
Speaker 1: Rashad White out there. They know what's coming. They know, Okay,
Speaker 1: Flare route, you know the Wheel route, that the Texas route,
Speaker 1: you know they're gonna they're gonna. Really that that's what
Speaker 1: he does best, and so I think he needs to
Speaker 1: expand what he does really well. I needs to expand
Speaker 1: that a little bit just so keeps defenses guessing when
Speaker 1: he's on the field. What about Davante Price out of FIU.
Speaker 1: I don't really know exactly how I feel about him,
Speaker 1: because he's again another tall, lanky, bigger running back and
Speaker 1: he's got some burst to it as well. Looks like
Speaker 1: he could really kind of play that Tony Pollard role,
Speaker 1: except he's bigger than Tony and a buy a couple
Speaker 1: of inches. What do you think about him and his
Speaker 1: ability out of the backfield? Could he potentially play a
Speaker 1: role like that? Yeah? I mean I think he's watching
Speaker 1: him on the FIU tape. I don't I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: face it defense that he really challenged lenge him. You know,
Speaker 1: I could really tell you, uh, you know, just how
Speaker 1: good he is. Um, I dive for a bigger back.
Speaker 1: I expected more mistackles. I just didn't see enough of
Speaker 1: that for a guy that's that size. But he's got
Speaker 1: speed once he gets in the open field, he can scoop.
Speaker 1: So um, I think he's he's another guy in a
Speaker 1: day three range where uh you know, he'd be in
Speaker 1: a shortlist of guys. He'd be looking at Kade and
Speaker 1: I wonder if this is a coincidence because of who
Speaker 1: he wants to know about He said, Kate Dotton has
Speaker 1: reportedly been linked to the Cowboys, which I like it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I take all of that stuff with so
Speaker 1: many grains of salt at the combine because everys have
Speaker 1: been linked to the Cowboys too. And on top of
Speaker 1: the I mean, is it a formal interview? Is it informal?
Speaker 1: Did they did they grab him in the hallway and say, hey,
Speaker 1: we think you're a good player. I mean, there's no
Speaker 1: way to know, but he wants to know about Kate Dotton,
Speaker 1: his skill set, tight end out of Washington. For those
Speaker 1: of y'all that are not flier, uh, just sort of
Speaker 1: thumb thumb nail him for Kaide. I think one of
Speaker 1: the reasons this Washington coaching staff was fired is because
Speaker 1: they didn't get the ball enough to Kadoton. Simply put,
Speaker 1: the offense was a knee mick this year for the Huskies,
Speaker 1: and the Kadoton was their best player, the best player
Speaker 1: on offense, and they could not get him the football.
Speaker 1: Part of that was scheme, part of it was inability
Speaker 1: of the quarterback to do it. So uh that and
Speaker 1: it just he had his foot injury towards the end
Speaker 1: of the year, and that foot injury kept him out
Speaker 1: of Senior Bowl. It's going to keep him from working
Speaker 1: out here at the Combine only major injuries ever had
Speaker 1: and unfortunately it's it's kind of holding him back a
Speaker 1: little bit. But I think he's a top five tight
Speaker 1: end in this class. Uh, he might be the best
Speaker 1: all around tight end in terms of what he gives
Speaker 1: you as a receiver and as a blocker. Um, there's
Speaker 1: just a lot to like about Kadoton who he is
Speaker 1: right now and who he is is what are you
Speaker 1: going to grow into? So because he has that injury,
Speaker 1: maybe a get him a little bit later than you
Speaker 1: then you thought you might. So if if a team
Speaker 1: might the Cowboys want to go tight end and say
Speaker 1: the late third round, and Kate Oughton would be an
Speaker 1: outstanding pick in my opinion. Where do you have him
Speaker 1: compared to Widemeyer from Texas A and M. Because I
Speaker 1: agree with you in terms of they're the most complete.
Speaker 1: I think Otton's more complete, but Widemeyer maybe has a
Speaker 1: higher ceiling. Is there any kind of big difference between
Speaker 1: those two for you? I think so. I like Kate
Speaker 1: Outen a lot more than like Widemeyer. Um. I mean
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that because they are. Oughton's like five
Speaker 1: on my tight end rankings, Widemeyer six, so you know
Speaker 1: they're okay, they're close. But in my opinion, like Oughton,
Speaker 1: I would feel really good taking on day two, where
Speaker 1: with Widemeyer, I don't. I think he's a Day three guy.
Speaker 1: Just my opinion. I think the top five tight ends
Speaker 1: this year are kind of set. In my opinion, I
Speaker 1: think it's not in the order. I'm still a little
Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out. But Trey McBride, Greg Dulsik,
Speaker 1: Jeremy Ruckert, Isaiah Likely Kate Oughten. To me, those are
Speaker 1: the top five tight ends this year. It's just you
Speaker 1: get to figure out what's the correct order, what's the
Speaker 1: correct project action in terms of where you should be
Speaker 1: drafting these guys. They're different with what they offer. Um,
Speaker 1: but Aughton, if you're looking for that, like Jarwin Dalton Schultz,
Speaker 1: I think Oughton fits a lot with what this team
Speaker 1: could be looking for. Alfredo wants us to put our
Speaker 1: GM hats on. He says, what would you you, not
Speaker 1: anybody else, not the Jacksonville Jaguars, what would you do
Speaker 1: at number one overall? With that Jacksonville pick. Oh uh,
Speaker 1: that's well. Aidan Hudginson's my top player on my on
Speaker 1: my board, so I'd be disingenuous if I didn't say him. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know, the Jaguars have invested a lot in
Speaker 1: the pass rush position in the first round or you know,
Speaker 1: in recent years, So it would be it would come
Speaker 1: down to Adane Hudson and Ikey Aquanu. For me, Uh,
Speaker 1: Ikey's my number two player, my top offensive lineman. I
Speaker 1: think that he's uh really really good right now and
Speaker 1: he's getting better and better, so uh, you know, it's uh,
Speaker 1: it would be come down to one of those two
Speaker 1: players if I want to get better pass rusher. Wanted
Speaker 1: to upgrade my offensive line either Adan Hutchinson a Quandu.
Speaker 1: For me, it's funny because I'm looking at the edge rushers.
Speaker 1: I think Tibodeau's in that conversation for me as well.
Speaker 1: I kind of want to know more about him off
Speaker 1: the field and kind of how the interviews go this
Speaker 1: week based off of what Dane was talking about yesterday,
Speaker 1: But just for this exercise, I would throw Tibidau in
Speaker 1: that conversation. I see my like a more or a
Speaker 1: less poor Man's Miles Garrett is kind of what I
Speaker 1: look at with Cavon Thibadeau, and then I also see
Speaker 1: Joey Bosa whenever I'm looking at aida Aidan Hutchinson. So
Speaker 1: I like their potentials there. I like Aquanu for the Jags, though,
Speaker 1: I'm honestly with him because I want to protect Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 1: I want to find a way to really build into
Speaker 1: the future with him, and I think it starts by
Speaker 1: building an offensive line up front and maybe trying to
Speaker 1: find something on the defensive side of the football, either
Speaker 1: later in the draft or through free agency, because they
Speaker 1: have some money to play around there. In free agency,
Speaker 1: maybe that's where they add veteran talent on the defensive side.
Speaker 1: But build a young, cheap offensive line with a guy
Speaker 1: like a Quantu who's gonna come out and play nasty
Speaker 1: for you and protect your quarterback at all costs. I
Speaker 1: hope you got your Aquanu at number one bets in
Speaker 1: early because uh, you're feeling confident about that. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: now you can say in my I've only done two
Speaker 1: month draft. One was in December, one was m January.
Speaker 1: My second one, I had a Quantu at number one
Speaker 1: overall and an hour after the MOK draft went up,
Speaker 1: his odds to go number one went from like a
Speaker 1: thousand and one to about twenty five to one to
Speaker 1: kind of impact this great kingmaker. I mean, unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: love like I love questions like that because you want
Speaker 1: to try to create a difference of opinion. And that's
Speaker 1: what I was about to say, Like, I just think
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of boring this year because
Speaker 1: it's an edge rusher or a tackle. I don't know
Speaker 1: who else it could be for a team that just
Speaker 1: drapped to Trevor Lawrence. Yep, So I would and you know, Dane,
Speaker 1: I'm such a coward, Like I'm not going to sit
Speaker 1: here and be like, it's gotta be this guy. But
Speaker 1: like I would take Evan Neil or Aquanu whichever one
Speaker 1: you feel better about, don't really care what your preference is,
Speaker 1: or Hutchinson or Thibodeau. I would say I would. I
Speaker 1: feel way more comfortable with Hutchinson just based on what
Speaker 1: I know right now, I will say they're both great.
Speaker 1: Pairing Josh Allen with either one of those guys sounds
Speaker 1: very very fun. Sure, But man, how could you do again?
Speaker 1: Like we talked about yesterday, and there's some irony there
Speaker 1: because the Bengals didn't draft a tackle and got to
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. But why wouldn't you invest in what
Speaker 1: you do best right now, which is having Trevor Lawrence
Speaker 1: like keep that guy on his feet. That is your
Speaker 1: clearest path to success. Well there's not a Jamar Chase
Speaker 1: for Jacksonville the draft either, So there's there's a conversation.
Speaker 1: You look at you like, you just look at the
Speaker 1: big names, the sexy names, any of the corners enticier
Speaker 1: at all? You're Boystingley. If this was February of twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: I'd be standing on the table Force saying if you
Speaker 1: flip his twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one seasons, you
Speaker 1: just flip him. He goes number one. Absolutely. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I think I remember doing the Draft show that year
Speaker 1: and being like we're talking about Christian Fulton and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but the guy coming down the lines of like top five.
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't feel comfortable with that right now,
Speaker 1: not based on what the last two years have been. Like.
Speaker 1: Same thing with again Thibodeaux. There's stuff to figure out there.
Speaker 1: Um who else, I mean all the there's not a
Speaker 1: receiver that fits that mold. Kyle Hamilton. What was the
Speaker 1: last time a receiver even went number one overall? Keisha? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the last time. And I'm no, yeah, there's not
Speaker 1: There's not a guy. You could make the argument that
Speaker 1: Kyle Hamilton's the best player in the draft, the best
Speaker 1: talent in the draft. And is that just positional value?
Speaker 1: Do you have? Well? Yeah, do you have the guts
Speaker 1: to take a safety number one overall? I mean the
Speaker 1: last safety that went top two overall was back in
Speaker 1: like nineteen ninety one when Belichick drafted Eric Turner. Do
Speaker 1: you see all? So it just doesn't happen all of them.
Speaker 1: And as long as we're doing the LSU thing, the
Speaker 1: last safe like Jamal Adams win top five and that
Speaker 1: has not really panned out the way that you would
Speaker 1: prefer for anybody. Get confused. When I see mock drafts
Speaker 1: of the Jets taken a safety at four, I was like,
Speaker 1: they didn't really kind of learn that lesson our value
Speaker 1: just doesn't match up with what they'd like to do,
Speaker 1: which again, like it's a cliche, but the cornerstone positions,
Speaker 1: you know, Jags don't need a quarterback. There's not a
Speaker 1: cornerback that I'm sold on doing that like being worthy
Speaker 1: of number one overall. Now you're looking at edge and tackle.
Speaker 1: There it is, and I would rather have a tackle
Speaker 1: if I just spent a number one overall pick on
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence. Mario wants to know, is it is it
Speaker 1: possible for the Cowboys to get wiped out? Like? Can
Speaker 1: you envision that? Yeah, at twenty four, I'd be surprised,
Speaker 1: just because I think, you know, like the difference between
Speaker 1: pick fifteen and fifty, there's just not that much difference.
Speaker 1: And so you're telling me that they can't find a
Speaker 1: player that they like in that range that they would
Speaker 1: feel feel good about there. Now, obviously you have your
Speaker 1: wish list, you have who you really want, and could
Speaker 1: they get wiped out of their top options? Sure, I
Speaker 1: think that's that's possible. You know, linder Bomb's gone, all
Speaker 1: the pass rushers are gone. Um, you know, say Kenyan
Speaker 1: Greene's gone. Um. I think that is semi realistic. But
Speaker 1: there's I think there's gonna be someone that they're gonna
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with um at that point in the draft,
Speaker 1: and you know they're they're gonna get and and you
Speaker 1: know what what what draft was? It was it thirteen
Speaker 1: when they drafted Travis Frederick. Yeah, they kind of you
Speaker 1: know that that whole you know, weren't sure what they
Speaker 1: were gonna go, and they traded back and they still
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it worked out. Okay, UM, I think
Speaker 1: with this this group, they're they're gonna find someone they
Speaker 1: liked there. I would be very surprised if they couldn't
Speaker 1: find a player that they didn't think very highly of
Speaker 1: UM at that point in the draft. Now, I think
Speaker 1: I'm with you because even when you look at it
Speaker 1: and we talked through the ten names that we feel
Speaker 1: like are there, if you wanted to stretch that to
Speaker 1: fifteen that are locks to go in front of twenty four,
Speaker 1: I still see ten other names. So even with the
Speaker 1: fifteen guys that you think are going to be out
Speaker 1: of your reach, there's another ten fifteen guys that you
Speaker 1: still feel great about taking at twenty four. And it's
Speaker 1: different for every conversation you have. Some people will like
Speaker 1: the fact that Zion Zion Johnson could potentially be there
Speaker 1: twenty four. Others might not like it. But depending on
Speaker 1: what this coaching staff does, there's going to be people
Speaker 1: in the room pounding on the table for somebody that's
Speaker 1: at twenty four because they liked those prospects. I'm not
Speaker 1: falling for this banana and the tailpipe in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Because we stress out about it every year and more
Speaker 1: often than not it works out pretty well. I mean, ironically,
Speaker 1: they got wiped away from their cornerbacks last year. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: I mean that did happen, but those were elite quarterbacks corners,
Speaker 1: and then they still had two names. They still wound
Speaker 1: up with a choice of two guys that were named
Speaker 1: All proses rookies. Yeah, yeah, it worked out all right.
Speaker 1: One last one from our buddy Connor, friend of the show,
Speaker 1: Sam Williams, old Miss Edge Rusher. He wants he's got
Speaker 1: some off the field issues, kind of talk about who
Speaker 1: he is as a prospect and where would he be
Speaker 1: without like, how how highly would you rate him without
Speaker 1: the off field and how will that affect his dress.
Speaker 1: We talked about contacts and how important it is with
Speaker 1: these guys understanding where they're from. And he was a
Speaker 1: basketball guy growing up, that was his focus. Um, and
Speaker 1: he goes to high school, UM and is a football player. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, guy in some trouble in high school, had
Speaker 1: a transfer a senior year, has to go to Juco
Speaker 1: Route because he's not he you know, doesn't have the
Speaker 1: grades for football, didn't have the pedigree either. Really Uh,
Speaker 1: just as a relatively new football player who was again
Speaker 1: always a basketball player in most of his life, goes
Speaker 1: to Juco Route, does really really well, then goes to
Speaker 1: Old Miss. Ran into some trouble there, but he was
Speaker 1: cleared to stay on the field, and this past year
Speaker 1: he was really productive All SEC player. Uh. There's a
Speaker 1: little bit of stiffness in his rush, but he's got acceleration. Uh,
Speaker 1: he can make plays verse to run. As long if
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with the person, you're comfortable with his background
Speaker 1: and everything that went on behind the scenes, you're gonna
Speaker 1: feel comfortable drafting this guy somewhere on day two. And
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna get a pass rusher that you're
Speaker 1: gonna make as part of your rotation right away, and
Speaker 1: then a guy that eventually you think can starve for
Speaker 1: you down the road. He was added to the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl week late right he was he was at NFLPA Collegibowl,
Speaker 1: that's right. Then injuries he got added late to to
Speaker 1: the roster for the Senior Bowl. Ye had a pretty
Speaker 1: good week too. Would you on the field, would you
Speaker 1: imagine and I mean beauties in the eye of the beholder,
Speaker 1: right like you can't predict what all thirty two teams
Speaker 1: are gonna think, But would you guess that that his
Speaker 1: his his past is enough to push him into day three,
Speaker 1: probably just because um, you know, uh, it was something
Speaker 1: that he was cleared pretty quickly. But still, you know,
Speaker 1: more teams dig and you know he had an incident
Speaker 1: in high school then involved a knife like a pocket knife,
Speaker 1: and you know that kicked out of school for that.
Speaker 1: I think that it's possible, very possible that he's still
Speaker 1: around in the fourth, fifth round. But I still think
Speaker 1: there's a good chance there will be at least one
Speaker 1: team that is you know it is okay with everything
Speaker 1: and just wants to buy low on the passworks. Potential.
Speaker 1: Wonderful batch of questions. We appreciate it. We will be
Speaker 1: right back after this break to wrap up this Wednesday show.
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Speaker 1: dot gov. This is that Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft show.
Speaker 1: Wrapping up Wednesday's episode of the Draft show, I'm Dave Hellman,
Speaker 1: joined by Kyle Yeomans and Dane Brugler of The Athletic.
Speaker 1: We will have one more show for y'all on Thursday,
Speaker 1: which ironic, Well, I mean, I'm nothing if not transparent.
Speaker 1: We still won't have seen any damn drills by tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I mean to be going on while we record. Yeah, actually,
Speaker 1: there are, there are some drills. There's a potential for
Speaker 1: another guest there too. Oh oh, Kyle, can you tell?
Speaker 1: Can you tell? Kyle's hosted things in the past. I've
Speaker 1: learned from the talent coaches the tease is a powerful thing.
Speaker 1: I have heard whispers on the wind that sprinkles. Cowboys
Speaker 1: Executive vice president of Personnel Will McClay might be joining
Speaker 1: us excited about that. It's could be great. Will is
Speaker 1: always very good with his time after the draft. If
Speaker 1: he actually sits down with us during Combine week and
Speaker 1: gives us a segment, that would be pretty amazing. I
Speaker 1: think it'd be great. And by the way, it should
Speaker 1: be up by the time this is posted. But we
Speaker 1: got a chance to sit down with Stephen Jones and
Speaker 1: talk about a couple of things about Talk Combine. I try,
Speaker 1: like I try to keep the Cowboys weeds off of
Speaker 1: this show. But that was a draft interview for sure.
Speaker 1: For sure, we got into into some prospect talk, into
Speaker 1: some drill talk. So that'll be on the site. Yeah,
Speaker 1: depending on when you're listening to this, it's probably already there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it probably is so, but yeah, keep tune for that.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Kyle, you speaking of tease, do you
Speaker 1: tease this in the first segment? Not on purpose, but
Speaker 1: I did. Why on earth would you want to trade
Speaker 1: up in this draft? Well, because of kind of what
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. If you're telling me that
Speaker 1: you can get up nine spots in the draft, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at thirteen. I know that's eleven. It is a
Speaker 1: massive jump. That is a big jump. If you can
Speaker 1: tell me you can maybe move in front of the
Speaker 1: Eagles either at their nineteenth pick, I would get in
Speaker 1: front of them. Yeah, if you can get in front
Speaker 1: of them at nineteen, or you can get in front
Speaker 1: of them at fifteen and ensure that you get your
Speaker 1: top prospect on the board, depending on how much they
Speaker 1: like them. I like Tyler Linderbaum enough to go and
Speaker 1: do that. I don't know if they do. That's the
Speaker 1: thing is the Cowboys. Are they willing to do that?
Speaker 1: I also don't want to give up fifty six in
Speaker 1: order to do that. I don't want to give up
Speaker 1: that second round pick. I told you two weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Don't give me that work. You're gonna jump nine spots
Speaker 1: in the first round and hold onto your second round pick.
Speaker 1: That's tough. Maybe if it's that cheap, then yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about it. I don't think the nine would happen.
Speaker 1: I think it would be eleven, not eleven, excuse me,
Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen. Maybe in there somewhere if you wanted to
Speaker 1: trade with New Orleans, if they wanted to trade back
Speaker 1: and maybe get a better view of the land for
Speaker 1: a quarterback. Seventeen. Maybe the Chargers don't necessarily want to
Speaker 1: make their pick there and they want to trade back
Speaker 1: a little bit more. I don't usually feel comfortable speaking
Speaker 1: for Dane, but I'm just Dane. He's looking at me.
Speaker 1: Give me the pick, Stane, Right, what is it gonna take.
Speaker 1: It would have to be one of like my top
Speaker 1: six players. One of those guys would have to fall,
Speaker 1: you know, and for me to have to make that
Speaker 1: type of move, Yeah, I'm not making that move for Linderbaum.
Speaker 1: I'm not making that move for Do I have to
Speaker 1: give up fifty six in order to make it happen
Speaker 1: if you're talking about eleven spots, yeah, yeah, see, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do that. Then I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: The chart, the chart kind of goes out the window
Speaker 1: in the first round a little bit. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can still, especially it's based on the prospect pool. You
Speaker 1: can exactly like you you dictate the terms when you're
Speaker 1: talking about the first round. That's like those trades get
Speaker 1: out of whack All Giants and Bears last year whenever
Speaker 1: they were at eleven behind the Cowboys to go up
Speaker 1: and get justin fields, that was a massive number. It's
Speaker 1: not going to take that massive number to go up
Speaker 1: seven spots eight spots again this year because there's not
Speaker 1: that high quarterback pool that you have to pull from.
Speaker 1: As long as we're doing this and Dane, I would
Speaker 1: love your inputs. I mean, I'll be honest. We've we've
Speaker 1: talked about Tyler Linderbaum a lot and we will keep
Speaker 1: doing it. And that's gonna happen. That's fine. But I
Speaker 1: feel myself coming around on this thought process, like I
Speaker 1: almost feel like we're making a bigger deal of Tyler
Speaker 1: Bottish than we need to because like I look, I
Speaker 1: look at it, Tyler Bottish, fourth round pick. He's been fine.
Speaker 1: He definitely he's got some stuff to work on. Definitely,
Speaker 1: the interior of this offensive line was a weak point.
Speaker 1: Sure was he so bad that that should be like
Speaker 1: the where Waldo situation, especially when you consider left guard
Speaker 1: was equally a problem and oh, by the way, they
Speaker 1: don't really have one right now. Connor Williams is a
Speaker 1: free agent. Connor McGovern replaced him in the lineup and
Speaker 1: quickly got yanked again. Doesn't inspire a ton of confidence
Speaker 1: in me. And so, like, when I'm thinking about these
Speaker 1: names that you fixate on in the first round, I
Speaker 1: start to lean toward Kenyon Green as a more intriguing option,
Speaker 1: because if you play Tyler Beatish between the best guard
Speaker 1: in football and a first round pick, he might look
Speaker 1: at hell of a lot better. That's that's fair, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I personally I'd rather go after, say a Luke
Speaker 1: Fortner in the third round and have him compete for
Speaker 1: that job. Fortner is going to give you center guard versatility.
Speaker 1: He's gonna help you upgrade the offensive line. But I
Speaker 1: think your point is valid. Where you upgrade that other
Speaker 1: guard spot and all of a sudden Tyler beatis, you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden his play goes up as well
Speaker 1: his performance. So that's that's very fair. I think it's
Speaker 1: fair to look at this and say, okay, well, let's
Speaker 1: look at last year, the first how many picks for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys were defensive five or six. I believe that's
Speaker 1: rare and unprecedented. Right this year, it could be the opposite.
Speaker 1: It really could be. We could see the first five
Speaker 1: picks for the Cowboys being offensive. This is going to
Speaker 1: be an offensive heavy draft, and offensive line, tight end,
Speaker 1: probably receiver. Those three positions it's it's gonna be, you know,
Speaker 1: make up three of the first probably four picks the
Speaker 1: Cowboys make, in my opinion. So let me get this straight.
Speaker 1: So you're not saying go away from offensive line in
Speaker 1: the first You're saying potentially pulled Kenyon Green up to
Speaker 1: the Tyler linderbomb sort of scenario there. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: want to be if Tyler Linderbaum was their pick, I
Speaker 1: would be happy with that. Sure, no problem at all.
Speaker 1: I just again, we've got four months of airtime to
Speaker 1: fill and only so much we can say. And I
Speaker 1: just kind of I get the sense that, like he's
Speaker 1: the default, people become fixated on him to the point
Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, hang on now, like there are
Speaker 1: other ways we can improve this without just obsessing over
Speaker 1: improving a center where you have a young starter who's
Speaker 1: not been great but also not been awful. Well. I
Speaker 1: think you bring up great points because right now you
Speaker 1: look at the contract situation, Beyotish is on the team.
Speaker 1: Your starter at left guard is not on the team
Speaker 1: at the moment, that's Connor Williams. I mean, would you rather,
Speaker 1: would you rather go, like you know, training camp is
Speaker 1: wrapping up in early September, late August. Would you rather
Speaker 1: Tyler Beyotish as your starting center or Connor mcgovernors your
Speaker 1: starting left guard? What would you prefer? I think I
Speaker 1: would probably still go with Tyler Beyotish as a starting center. Agree.
Speaker 1: I agree. The only thing that throws a wrench into
Speaker 1: that conversation is if they're willing to move Lyle Collins
Speaker 1: to left guard. But we're getting the thought process that
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. We kind of regardless, we
Speaker 1: get the inkling here from getting to you know, the
Speaker 1: beauty of the combine, we have to go out and
Speaker 1: talk to talk. I don't get the feeling that that
Speaker 1: is in the cards. I don't think so either. And
Speaker 1: if that's done in the cards, then I think I'm
Speaker 1: more on board with the green pick than a lender
Speaker 1: Bomb pick. I mean not more so. I think both
Speaker 1: are great players. And they're right there with each other.
Speaker 1: But I would be more enticed by the green pick
Speaker 1: or trying to upgrade that guard spot rather because either
Speaker 1: way you're looking at it as a quarterback behind it.
Speaker 1: In that interior pressure. That was an absolute problem on
Speaker 1: the back half of the schedule this season. And he
Speaker 1: of course had this shoulder, he had the cav he
Speaker 1: had the angle, he has had all these injuries. You
Speaker 1: got to protect Dak Prescott, and in order to do that,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to upgrade one of those two
Speaker 1: positions early in this draft, before really you even look
Speaker 1: at some other spots. Dan, you're so intuitive. Again, we
Speaker 1: get we get to come out here and we talk
Speaker 1: to people. Somebody was joking with us yesterday, were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: talk talk up how we need defenders, talk up how
Speaker 1: we're going defense heavy. Again, don't let anybody. Let's not
Speaker 1: put it out there that we're hunting offense, which maybe
Speaker 1: that's maybe it's extreme to say they're hunting offense, but
Speaker 1: when you think about the potential issues at receiver, not
Speaker 1: even potential, no matter what happens with a Marii Cooper,
Speaker 1: they got holes to fill there. Tight end is a
Speaker 1: problem spot for this team interior offensive line, and then
Speaker 1: even down the line. You can throw running back in
Speaker 1: there as well as rusher and wide receiver are not
Speaker 1: out of the question in the first two rounds either.
Speaker 1: A chance. This team wants to be explosive on offense,
Speaker 1: and you know, we saw flashes of that throughout the season,
Speaker 1: but in order to be more consistently explosive, they have
Speaker 1: work to do. And it starts at on the offensive line,
Speaker 1: starts with uh, you know, targets on the outside. Um,
Speaker 1: there's there's a different directions they could go. Tight End
Speaker 1: is gonna look different. The tight end ut charts gonna
Speaker 1: look very different next year. So this is a tight
Speaker 1: end draft where I would feel very comfortable waiting until
Speaker 1: the fourth round of Draft one. I mean that that's
Speaker 1: kind of what they did with Dalton Schultz. I mean
Speaker 1: you're kind of, you know, maybe go that direction again
Speaker 1: with targeting one of these guys in the fourth round,
Speaker 1: feeling good about who you're getting at that point. So yeah,
Speaker 1: this is ah, this is gonna be an offensive heavy draft.
Speaker 1: I think the Cowboys real quick before we get out
Speaker 1: of here, Jeff Kavanaugh is not here to do it.
Speaker 1: So I'll speak for him. But can you sell me
Speaker 1: on a trade down? Like how attractive does that? How
Speaker 1: attractive does that look to you? Given this talent pool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think obviously it's tough when you're talking about
Speaker 1: picking twenty four. You don't know how the first twenty
Speaker 1: three picks go. You don't know who's on the board
Speaker 1: for you. But if someone's offering you, say, a package
Speaker 1: of Day two picks, that that's awfully appealing. But it's
Speaker 1: gonna sting a little bit to move out of the
Speaker 1: first round if that's what if a team's moved up
Speaker 1: to get a quarterback or um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I would love to trade back a few spots and
Speaker 1: still stay in the first round, still have my first
Speaker 1: round pick, and then pick up an extra Day two pick.
Speaker 1: To me, that would be an ideal scenario because again,
Speaker 1: I don't think you're getting wiped out there at twenty four.
Speaker 1: I just want I just want Day two picks, that's
Speaker 1: all I want. That sounds fun. You stack them up,
Speaker 1: you sifties picks. I mean that. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: about well, we'll finish it with where we started it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: LaQuan Treadwell, I don't know. I don't know, if I
Speaker 1: I don't know, if I actually want to be making
Speaker 1: those decisions. Hey, that'll do it for day two of
Speaker 1: the Draft Show. We got one more, hopefully joined by
Speaker 1: Will McClay. We'll see about that. We will check in
Speaker 1: with y'all tomorrow. Thank you so much for listening. We'll
Speaker 1: talk to you next time. This has been a production
Speaker 1: of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.