Speaker 1: Were you out and about at the weekend at all?
Speaker 1: Or did you just stay home?
Speaker 2: I never un out and about I go out. I
Speaker 2: means I don't like going.
Speaker 3: Out, and then when I do, it's usually to one
Speaker 3: restaurant and that's it.
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It
Speaker 1: was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
Speaker 1: ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the
Speaker 1: other player's true nature. In asking different people the same
Speaker 1: set of questions, you can make observations about which truths
Speaker 1: appear to be universal. And it made me wonder, what
Speaker 1: if these questions were just the jumping off point, what
Speaker 1: greater depths would be revealed if I asked these questions
Speaker 1: as conversation starters. So I adapted Prus's questionnaire and I
Speaker 1: wrote my own seven questions that I personally think are
Speaker 1: pertinent to a person's story.
Speaker 4: They are when and where were you happiest? What is
Speaker 4: the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real
Speaker 4: or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 1: Love for you?
Speaker 4: What question would you most like answered? What person, place,
Speaker 4: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
Speaker 4: your last meal? And can you tell me something in
Speaker 4: your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And
Speaker 4: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
Speaker 4: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
Speaker 4: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
Speaker 4: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
Speaker 4: which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,
Speaker 4: or created the most fertile ground to connect.
Speaker 1: My guest today is the actor Courtney Cox. Courtney has
Speaker 1: been such a huge part of all of our cultural
Speaker 1: consciousness since nineteen ninety four when she was cast in Friends,
Speaker 1: perhaps the most successful sitcom of all time. It's really
Speaker 1: interesting to speak with a person who everybody has this
Speaker 1: deep feeling of already knowing because of the beloved character
Speaker 1: they played. Out of space for who you are as
Speaker 1: a person beyond the characters you play as an actor
Speaker 1: is a challenge, particularly when your fame is stratisferic. Courtney
Speaker 1: is a curious, deep feeling human who is unafraid to
Speaker 1: explore the meaning and mysteries of life. It was great
Speaker 1: to have such a candid conversation with her here on
Speaker 1: the shed. What quality do you like least about yourself.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, the thing I like least about myself being
Speaker 3: any feelings of jealousy, whether you can feel replaced or
Speaker 3: whether it's I think just chelousy, is such a horrible
Speaker 3: emotion to have, and I have that sometimes I get
Speaker 3: jealous or afraid. Whether it's because I'm getting older and
Speaker 3: I'm not can't stay in the game, or it could
Speaker 3: be about anything. But anytime I feel jealous, I can't
Speaker 3: stand it. I will talk to my therapist and go,
Speaker 3: I just hate this feeling.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because when we think about jealousy. When
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, it's easy to do with a lover.
Speaker 1: That's how I perceive it. But it's really interesting the
Speaker 1: idea of if you follow it all the way through
Speaker 1: and it's like no, it can come in many forms.
Speaker 1: That feeling of being replaced that is such a pertinent
Speaker 1: one that goes to the fundament of who I am
Speaker 1: or of who you are. The idea that there is
Speaker 1: someone who could could take our place, when categorically there isn't.
Speaker 3: I know, when you step back, of course, you're not replaceable,
Speaker 3: but it's such a it's a feeling that can come
Speaker 3: up for me whether it's through friendships or like you said, relationships,
Speaker 3: or in work.
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by that because I know that there must
Speaker 1: be these aspects of you. It's like you're glad that
Speaker 1: you're grown up because you're Koko's mama and you get
Speaker 1: to be that. But there's also that profound memory, specifically
Speaker 1: as an actor of when we were very young and
Speaker 1: like at this sort of the zenith and that exalted feeling.
Speaker 1: I feel that it's like, how does one negotiate and
Speaker 1: manage that feeling of being older and that being these
Speaker 1: young people who are who we were.
Speaker 4: As it were.
Speaker 2: But no, yeah, it's not easy, No, not at all.
Speaker 3: I remember when Olivia Newton John I read this a
Speaker 3: long time ago, and I couldn't find it when she
Speaker 3: passed away, and I wanted to because I remember it
Speaker 3: being so important to me. But she had said this
Speaker 3: comment that when she was in Greece and she was
Speaker 3: wearing those black tight pants and smoking that cigarette and
Speaker 3: doing that dance.
Speaker 2: She felt terrible about herself.
Speaker 3: She didn't like the way she looked, she felt fat,
Speaker 3: she wasn't comfortable. This is what I read, and I
Speaker 3: could have been you know, I'm making some of it
Speaker 3: up because I just remember the feeling of going, WHOA,
Speaker 3: how could you not think you're perfect back then?
Speaker 2: And she didn't.
Speaker 3: And then we look back in life and go, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, we should so pleased with certain aspects of
Speaker 3: our life.
Speaker 2: Anyway, that's not part of my part of my jealousy.
Speaker 1: Answer, no, but I think that's part. It's the irony
Speaker 1: of the wonder of getting older. Is I find now
Speaker 1: that my presence of mind, or presence of self, or
Speaker 1: presence of everything around me is so acute, and it's
Speaker 1: almost like I was fast asleep when I was there
Speaker 1: in those moments of whether it's a physical peak of
Speaker 1: strength and agility or how it was that I wanted
Speaker 1: my body to look or I it was like I
Speaker 1: was fast asleep. And I can't believe the disparity of
Speaker 1: this wisdom that comes. It's such a cliche with the
Speaker 1: wisdom that comes as we get older, which is not
Speaker 1: visited upon us, or if we're very lucky, it is
Speaker 1: when we're younger. And that it is that I wish
Speaker 1: I could take this and go back and tell that
Speaker 1: person be present and be aware and be in love
Speaker 1: with the way that you are right now, because it's
Speaker 1: full of so much good stuff. It's wild.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that we always whether it's oh, when
Speaker 3: you have a child, you know you're going to really
Speaker 3: miss these how other days, you know, just stay in
Speaker 3: the moment, enjoyed them being a little baby.
Speaker 2: And I was just like, oh, when is this phasing
Speaker 2: me over? This is brutal.
Speaker 3: But I guess when you don't get the chance to
Speaker 3: have more kids or now they're growing up, it's just like,
Speaker 3: oh God, I wish I'd held on to that a
Speaker 3: little longer.
Speaker 2: But I just think it's kind of the way of life,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it really is. I did a birthday
Speaker 1: video on Instagram and I was remembering this thing Carrie
Speaker 1: Fisher said when I was twenty five and I was
Speaker 1: at this birthday party that I didn't know a single
Speaker 1: person there would I'd literally just arrived in town. I
Speaker 1: was shooting a movie, and they'd thrown this Hollywood party
Speaker 1: for me as I turned twenty five, and I was
Speaker 1: kind of sitting by the fire and she came and
Speaker 1: sat down and she was like, why are you looking
Speaker 1: so miserable? And I was like, I don't know, twenty five,
Speaker 1: it feels like a milestone and I'm not with anyone
Speaker 1: I really know. And she was like, let me tell you,
Speaker 1: this is the youngest you're ever going to be. Again.
Speaker 1: I know it's the oldest you've ever been. And I
Speaker 1: think about that all the time. I think about it
Speaker 1: on my birthday. I also think about it when I
Speaker 1: get because I get so exactly is I know you
Speaker 1: must about your child because we both have one kid.
Speaker 1: I'm like, God, I wish I'd paid more attention, or
Speaker 1: I wish I hadn't wished that phase was over. Like
Speaker 1: I go, okay, well, Henry's fourteen. God, I wish he
Speaker 1: was little again. And we were having that conversation. I
Speaker 1: let that trigger me into going, well, I'm going to
Speaker 1: have that conversation with him now because I know when
Speaker 1: I'm older, him being fourteen is still going to be
Speaker 1: like a baby, and those conversations are I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: it's very different to when they were little. I was
Speaker 1: just thinking, I remember being a thing when you had Coco.
Speaker 1: I don't know. She must have been like eight or nine,
Speaker 1: and I had a leather jacket, aren't We said hi,
Speaker 1: and you went to leave, and then she came back
Speaker 1: and she went I like your leather jacket. That was
Speaker 1: a good choice. It was so and then she gave
Speaker 1: me a thumbs up, and I was just like the
Speaker 1: kids go in places. She's like a firecracker. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just remember her when she was little, like I
Speaker 1: don't know her as a young woman now, but like,
Speaker 1: you got to be a firecracker in this world. You
Speaker 1: have to be there. You have to be strong and
Speaker 1: wily and ready for anything. And I think, particularly being
Speaker 1: a woman and growing up in this world, I think
Speaker 1: it's I think it's a good thing. I really do.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: I think that time of her life she was so
Speaker 3: I mean, she is really funny, but there was no
Speaker 3: insecurity about her.
Speaker 1: Do you ever find that when you're looking at your
Speaker 1: daughter in the way that I look at my style
Speaker 1: and go, my god. They are just not imbued with
Speaker 1: the same insecurity that I have, Like I categorically know
Speaker 1: I did not pause on my pathological insecurity about well
Speaker 1: that whatever that is to them. Do you ever feel
Speaker 1: that with Coco or does it make you feel proud
Speaker 1: or happy?
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 3: I feel like I look at somebody and I've passed
Speaker 3: all of that stuff onto anything. I mean, it's I
Speaker 3: think having a girl is probably different. But I wish
Speaker 3: so bad that I could have realized in the moment
Speaker 3: a way to protect Coco from things that I didn't
Speaker 3: because of my own issues, whether it was codependency or
Speaker 3: seeing her in relationships with people that I knew this
Speaker 3: was not good. But I didn't want to step in
Speaker 3: even though I knew something wasn't right, because she would
Speaker 3: she would get so.
Speaker 1: Mad at me.
Speaker 2: She wanted me to, you know, let me deal with it. Mom,
Speaker 2: you don't understand.
Speaker 3: And I did understand, and I should have trusted myself
Speaker 3: and I should have stepped in so with certain things
Speaker 3: about myself, she saw them. I'm not saying I made
Speaker 3: her who she is, but you do see things in
Speaker 3: other people, and whether it's just always you know, taking
Speaker 3: care of people and being the nicest person. And I
Speaker 3: mean that's one of the things. With age, I've learned
Speaker 3: to say no, I've learned to have boundaries. But earlier on,
Speaker 3: when she was a kid, or not even that many
Speaker 3: years ago, I wish i'd been a firmer parent.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, wow, I mean, yeah, God, that's so interesting. I
Speaker 1: feel like I wrote down a list of things that
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do that my parents did with me.
Speaker 1: I've already tried. I mean, you don't. You can't do
Speaker 1: it all the time. I don't know what Henry's going
Speaker 1: to be in therapy over to do with me, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll tell me.
Speaker 3: But you know what, he might be the kid that
Speaker 3: has the coolest mom and he will look for his
Speaker 3: partner to be whatever it is that reminds him. And
Speaker 3: it's going to be hard to live up to. But
Speaker 3: I have a feeling you're an incredible, kind, loving patient mom.
Speaker 1: Well that's really nice for you to say, but I'm
Speaker 1: definitely not that all of the time.
Speaker 3: Thank god cocos and to really high end clothes or
Speaker 3: designer anything. She doesn't care about the labels, And thank
Speaker 3: god that she shops for her clothes on Amazon, because
Speaker 3: she could be this other kid I want to have
Speaker 3: Guji and you'd have to spend your whole life saying no.
Speaker 3: But she'll say, Mom, I have bought like five pairs
Speaker 3: of Mary Jane's on Amazon and.
Speaker 2: They just keep breaking.
Speaker 3: I would it be okay if I got just one
Speaker 3: really nice pair. I'm like, oh shit, yeah, and she'll
Speaker 3: say yeah. From Steve Madden and I'm like, sure, Coco,
Speaker 3: go ahead, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 1: What question would you most like answered?
Speaker 3: I would like to know the answer to where we
Speaker 3: come from? Hmmm, because if I knew where he came from,
Speaker 3: I know where were going.
Speaker 1: Do you know I think that as well? Henry said
Speaker 1: the other day, He's like, why do you think that
Speaker 1: where you were before is where you're going to go
Speaker 1: after you die? And I was like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just did.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also at least it's a possibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's the I think it's a solid
Speaker 1: theory based on absolutely nothing. But yes, I'm completely with you.
Speaker 1: So you're talking about a consciousness, a consciousness that would
Speaker 1: then enter the bundle of cells that are created by
Speaker 1: human beings. Like, do you believe that there is somewhere
Speaker 1: a before consciousness or a before place that consciousness swells around?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 3: You know, I've watched people close to me die and
Speaker 3: I saw my dad when he was within moments of dying,
Speaker 3: and I saw him looking up and smiling, and then
Speaker 3: he would frown, and then he'd be confused and then
Speaker 3: repeat it all over again.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Dad, are you talking to angels?
Speaker 2: And he said yes, baby, And then I said, are
Speaker 2: you safe? His nurse was next to me. Did you
Speaker 2: hear him? He said yes, I go I didn't hear that.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh, this is the part
Speaker 3: where I'm supposed to have faith that it's going to
Speaker 3: be okay.
Speaker 2: You don't get to have the answers. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I didn't hear him.
Speaker 3: I tried to ask again, I got nothing. But I
Speaker 3: don't know what happens out there. I don't know where
Speaker 3: we go, why we do it, what are we coming back?
Speaker 2: Are we not? I don't know.
Speaker 3: But if I knew where we came from, it feels
Speaker 3: a little it would give me some a little safety
Speaker 3: or some insight.
Speaker 1: Do you think it would be easy to get the
Speaker 1: answer to where we came from as opposed to where
Speaker 1: we're going.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to know where we're going, really,
Speaker 3: because what am I to do every day? Worry that
Speaker 3: what if it's not a place I want to go?
Speaker 1: Aha?
Speaker 2: Or what if this is it?
Speaker 3: Then I got to know every day that, oh my god, Well,
Speaker 3: I guess if you think this is it, you can
Speaker 3: live in the moment, really enjoy every single thing. But
Speaker 3: I don't want to have fear about it. But if
Speaker 3: I knew where we came from, then there's possibility still.
Speaker 3: What it would be interesting if you didn't know, like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: you were an insect last time something? It would be
Speaker 3: I seemed it because I'm really happy in this life.
Speaker 2: I just want to know was it worse before?
Speaker 1: Was it better?
Speaker 3: I think I know there's certain lessons that we will
Speaker 3: continue to have to learn until we get them.
Speaker 1: Do you mean that singularly or do you mean that
Speaker 1: as people?
Speaker 3: Well, actually as people, but I met that singularly when
Speaker 3: I said it.
Speaker 1: You know what's really interesting what you do? Which I'm
Speaker 1: saying this because I got Mustard for this. When I
Speaker 1: was writing my book. You do this thing where you
Speaker 1: put things in the second person, and I do it too,
Speaker 1: So in talking about a relationship, you know, when you're
Speaker 1: angry with someone, or when you love someone, or when
Speaker 1: they do such and such, and I was writing like that,
Speaker 1: and my editor went, do you realize that whenever you're
Speaker 1: writing something really emotional you go into the second person?
Speaker 1: You were right? You know, when you leave school and
Speaker 1: there's nobody there to pick you up, and you fall
Speaker 1: over and you have to pick yourself up and walk
Speaker 1: home and there's no one to open the door. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't do that, got really defensive,
Speaker 1: and then I went back and I looked, and any
Speaker 1: time there was something, it was like to create a
Speaker 1: space between me and this thing happening. It feels so
Speaker 1: tender to me now when we as people. When you
Speaker 1: do it and when I do it, or when I
Speaker 1: hear someone else do it, it immediately makes me know. It
Speaker 1: makes me want to hug them. It's so hard to
Speaker 1: be a human and to be in our to be
Speaker 1: in our stuff and to own it because there is
Speaker 1: so much we don't know and so much we just
Speaker 1: have to trust, and so much we have to embrace.
Speaker 1: And then having children and watching them go through all
Speaker 1: of that not knowing. I think that is such a
Speaker 1: genuinely sweet, dear, tender part of you. Courtney really is
Speaker 1: just in observing.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'll be taking note of that and watching
Speaker 3: myself do it.
Speaker 2: It's really funny.
Speaker 1: Sidically in my mind when she told me that what relationship,
Speaker 1: real or fictionalized defines love for you, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, I have certain people that I know and love
Speaker 3: that have relationships that I look up to but I
Speaker 3: would say a relationship that has complete acceptance when you
Speaker 3: love somebody through their emotional challenges and their frailty and
Speaker 3: their weaknesses and their triggers and just their messiness, their
Speaker 3: unsolved selves, and you love them through all of that,
Speaker 3: or you accept all of that.
Speaker 2: That's to me, the definition of real love is acceptance. Acceptance.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that's like when you feel about that?
Speaker 1: Is that the way in which you were accepted or
Speaker 1: the way in which you feel yourself accepting the other person. Well, I.
Speaker 3: To feel someone accept me for all of my foils
Speaker 3: and my you know, whatever they are, that feels like true,
Speaker 3: absolutely true love.
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard.
Speaker 2: I don't accept everything about somebody.
Speaker 3: But when I meet people in the you know, they say, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, I hated this before I met this person.
Speaker 3: Then then it's like, you know what, I love that person,
Speaker 3: and so I what are you going to do?
Speaker 1: When did you first feel that? Like did you have
Speaker 1: that modeled for you as a kid or did you
Speaker 1: come to it when you were in a relationship? Like
Speaker 1: how did you come upon that realization?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't have that at all when I was
Speaker 3: a kid, not at all. My mom she was a
Speaker 3: beautiful woman that had no real drive. She was so
Speaker 3: sweet and she was so non judgmental to everyone except
Speaker 3: for herself and maybe your kids.
Speaker 2: But I used to say to my mom, did you
Speaker 2: ever go long?
Speaker 3: Did anybody ever throw a football and say run and
Speaker 3: then someone throws it and you caught.
Speaker 2: In the middle there? And She's like, no, she's a
Speaker 2: southern sweet lady.
Speaker 3: That's why I actually got this tattoo that says go long,
Speaker 3: because I wanted my mom to like go But my
Speaker 3: mom didn't have a lot of drive. And my dad
Speaker 3: would love sports and he loved he loved women. He
Speaker 3: was very much a flirt. But no, they had nothing
Speaker 3: in common. They didn't have any acceptance for each other.
Speaker 1: See your tattoo says go long. When you look at that,
Speaker 1: what does that mean for you?
Speaker 3: Pay chances, enjoy, be silly, don't let fear stop you.
Speaker 3: You know, if you're embarrassed to fail, it's okay, do
Speaker 3: it anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it means so many different things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I think it's such a I
Speaker 1: think that's I think that's such a fantastic thing to
Speaker 1: be able to look down and look at and remind
Speaker 1: yourself of I.
Speaker 3: Mean, I'm in a relationship now where I feel like
Speaker 3: we are growing to accept each other. It's taken a
Speaker 3: long time. I think sometimes you have to grow into that.
Speaker 1: What is it that you think makes you stay like
Speaker 1: to wait for the acceptance if that's the thing that
Speaker 1: you've set your course for, if that's the thing you're
Speaker 1: running towards, and there's a certain amount of faith in
Speaker 1: that of going, Okay, well this is what I'm heading towards.
Speaker 1: What is it that keeps you going I'm waiting for
Speaker 1: this to show up, or I believe that this is
Speaker 1: going to show up. What are some of the other
Speaker 1: tenets that kind of keep you strong and well, you're
Speaker 1: waiting for acceptance.
Speaker 3: Well, when you first meet someone, you accept everything, and
Speaker 3: then as time goes you don't accept anything or accept
Speaker 3: Oh wait a minute, I don't really like that. And
Speaker 3: then as I get further into a relationship and I
Speaker 3: like the person, then I realized some of the things
Speaker 3: that I couldn't accept in the middle part were things
Speaker 3: that are probably needed to control. I remember wanting to
Speaker 3: control certain things, whether it's I don't like you smoking cyretts,
Speaker 3: I would make it personal syah. It's a really hard
Speaker 3: to not do when you were addicted, but for some reason,
Speaker 3: if you couldn't quit for somebody, then it was like,
Speaker 3: how about that's their ISU, It's okay, I accept I
Speaker 3: remember just feeling that.
Speaker 2: I think that a lot of it has to do
Speaker 2: with feeling.
Speaker 3: I guess again, like the other question important, So what
Speaker 3: keeps you in there?
Speaker 2: Just liking the person?
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, that's really interesting because perhaps it's
Speaker 1: about the acceptance of self. That's how one accepts things
Speaker 1: in another person, whatever it is, intolerance or impatience, all
Speaker 1: of those things, because you really like a person. I
Speaker 1: think liking someone is a huge bridge.
Speaker 2: I think that's really true.
Speaker 3: It's really about self acceptance because if you can accept
Speaker 3: the part of you that doesn't have to be rigid,
Speaker 3: you don't have to hold onto things. You can accept
Speaker 3: or ask yourself questions.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know the things that make me in
Speaker 1: the beginning, what is it? Chris Rock said, when you
Speaker 1: first start dating me, you're not dating me, you're dating
Speaker 1: my representative. Like that's that. I've always loved that you
Speaker 1: accept everything in the beginning, and then all that shit
Speaker 1: starts to bug you. But it's funny now, Like in
Speaker 1: my relationship. The stuff that bug me now it makes
Speaker 1: me laugh because I see it as part of him,
Speaker 1: this person that has all these things that are amazing,
Speaker 1: not just the highlights that I loved before and just
Speaker 1: looked at that, but the really annoying stuff. It sort
Speaker 1: of makes me chuckle because I feel like it's made
Speaker 1: me a more tolerant person. And I know that's the
Speaker 1: same with him, the stuff that he puts up with,
Speaker 1: just as you said, the stuff that they put up
Speaker 1: with with us. That's part of what love is, like,
Speaker 1: love is accepting one's intolerance in power and carrying on anyway.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny this idea of romantic love
Speaker 1: that we are soul that this person and encapsulates all
Speaker 1: of these things. It's not love is actually love is
Speaker 1: actually tolerating that shit and loving them anyway.
Speaker 2: And understanding them more.
Speaker 3: Because I don't know if it's age or whether it's duration,
Speaker 3: but now I can really see, oh, this is what's happening.
Speaker 3: I see where the wounds come from and myself and
Speaker 3: in others. I see that in all my relationships. It's
Speaker 3: so much easier to be tolerant and patient when you
Speaker 3: know that any kind of act out or any kind
Speaker 3: of trigger that comes up. It has such a route
Speaker 3: that is more important than what's happening in the moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I can forgive anybody for any like any
Speaker 3: friend anything. I don't hold any grudges because you know
Speaker 3: that's coming from a deeper wound. Although I did have
Speaker 3: a dream about Lisa Kudro last night, and she really
Speaker 3: hurt my feelings and I wouldn't like think about her
Speaker 3: why she might not she wouldn't do something with me.
Speaker 2: And at Liasa is one of the greatest people on
Speaker 2: the planet and she would do anything for me, but
Speaker 2: not last night.
Speaker 1: You didn't.
Speaker 2: So I got to call her and find out that.
Speaker 1: God, I wish I knew what dreams. Man, You've taken
Speaker 1: the most reliable person and then you spun her into
Speaker 1: your dream to be the person that lets you down.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, I found the most reliable person to
Speaker 1: screw me over, Like, what is that in your life?
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about something that has grown out
Speaker 1: of the personal disaster.
Speaker 2: I won't use the second person.
Speaker 3: I will say when Johnny and I broke up, yeah,
Speaker 3: five years ago.
Speaker 1: This is Johnny who you are still in I'm still
Speaker 1: with your relationship with you're still together, but there was
Speaker 1: a moment where you broke up.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, after about two or three years moving together
Speaker 3: for like a long time. Yeah, so three years in
Speaker 3: we broke up and it was really intense. We broke
Speaker 3: up in therapy. I didn't know it was coming, whether
Speaker 3: I should have or not. It was just like we
Speaker 3: went to this therapist to talk about our boundaries, what
Speaker 3: we could and couldn't accept about each other.
Speaker 2: There's that acceptance, uh huh.
Speaker 3: Instead he just broke up within the first minute, and
Speaker 3: I was like, what we were engaged? And I was
Speaker 3: so shocked. I was in so much pain. I also
Speaker 3: don't like surprises, and he's an incredible human beings, so
Speaker 3: he wasn't trying to surprise me. He was in that
Speaker 3: much pain in the relationship. There was that much that
Speaker 3: needed to be dealt with, that he had to protect
Speaker 3: himself around his heart. So as opposed to like going
Speaker 3: fucking I don't know if I'm allowed to cuss on
Speaker 3: this thing, but.
Speaker 1: You can cuss up as to.
Speaker 3: Him, okay, as opposed to going fuck him, you know,
Speaker 3: getting in this mode of anger. I went in and
Speaker 3: I I did the most work on myself by far.
Speaker 3: I learned how to claim my voice, boundaries, what were
Speaker 3: my motives in life?
Speaker 2: Like what was my part in this?
Speaker 3: And I'm so thankful for that breakup because a when
Speaker 3: we got back together, it was a different relationship, but
Speaker 3: also because it really taught me how I.
Speaker 2: Operated in the world.
Speaker 3: What were the things from my childhood that I needed,
Speaker 3: like whether it was to be adored by men or
Speaker 3: things that I didn't know how to let go, to
Speaker 3: be in a relationship, to not take things personally my boundaries.
Speaker 3: I just went into myself and I had a great therapist.
Speaker 3: I went to the same one. I kept seeing him,
Speaker 3: the one that we met all the breakup day, and
Speaker 3: it was brutal to go to his office after that
Speaker 3: for a while, but then it was great and I'm
Speaker 3: really thankful a nothing will ever hurt me that bad again.
Speaker 3: And then the most of all, most importantly, I completely changed.
Speaker 1: H gosh, that's so interesting. I feel like all of us,
Speaker 1: well most do anything we can to not feel pain.
Speaker 1: I think people are so frightened of emotional pain, but
Speaker 1: the idea of when it happens, there's so much strength
Speaker 1: in realizing that it doesn't killy, and that what one
Speaker 1: can foster in oneself because of that pain is so
Speaker 1: much better and so much more amazing. There is such
Speaker 1: incredible freedom in taking the hit and then going what
Speaker 1: is my part in the pain of all of this
Speaker 1: and coming out the other side, Like I imagine if
Speaker 1: you come out of the other side of that with
Speaker 1: Johnny or without Johnny, it would sort of have been
Speaker 1: a completely different version of yourself.
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of bravery to end something that
Speaker 2: has so much passion or and anything any kind of relationship.
Speaker 3: It's so much easier just to stay and ride things
Speaker 3: out and make excuses, and you know, fear of.
Speaker 2: Pain is just too much to handle.
Speaker 3: But once you are bold enough to make this and
Speaker 3: go through the pain, you can't go around it, so
Speaker 3: you just go through it, and then when you do,
Speaker 3: everything's easier. I so I always trying to tell Coco, Coco,
Speaker 3: this issue, this is a roadblock. You can't go around it.
Speaker 3: It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it,
Speaker 3: deal with it. And this is another thing I learned
Speaker 3: during that time, and I'm still working on it every day.
Speaker 3: Am I doing this out of fear or connection?
Speaker 1: And I have to ask.
Speaker 2: Myself like some of them like, oh, I haven't heard
Speaker 2: from that person. I wonder if they still like me,
Speaker 2: or what if they care? And then I think, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, do I actually care? If they care?
Speaker 3: Do I really want it? Am I connecting with them
Speaker 3: or now just seeing if they care.
Speaker 1: I'm writing things down that you're saying.
Speaker 3: It gives you a lot of clarity. What is your motive?
Speaker 3: What are you doing things for? And I'm thankful that
Speaker 3: Johnny was so bold and brave because it was life
Speaker 3: changing for me and I'm sure for him.
Speaker 1: You do make the most delicious food. So what would
Speaker 1: be your last meal?
Speaker 2: Is my stomach like endless.
Speaker 1: It's limitless. This is like your everything that you love.
Speaker 3: Okay, I would start with a Giorgio salad, the one
Speaker 3: on West Channel. Oh I loved dressing whatever the red wine,
Speaker 3: vinegar or whatever it is. I cannot. I've tried, but
Speaker 3: I cannot make it as good. It's got a rubula
Speaker 3: and ondives and anyway, That's what i'd start with.
Speaker 2: And then I would have like a pasta course, which.
Speaker 3: Would be maybe a pesto and maybe a tomato sauce
Speaker 3: with some fresh mozzarella and then I'd have a twice
Speaker 3: baked potato stuff with like sour cream and cheese and butter,
Speaker 3: and I would I'd have a steak but cooked the
Speaker 3: way the sky made it on my Instagram.
Speaker 2: Recently, so good. It was better than I can do.
Speaker 1: Wait, you didn't even eat it. You just looked at
Speaker 1: it on Instagram, and that's you want your steak.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I saw him on Instagram and then
Speaker 3: you got him to I wrote to him to stop it.
Speaker 2: Oh, Instagram was like a dating friend website.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Cotney, that's the most amazing thing. So
Speaker 1: you saw a guy make a steak and then you
Speaker 1: DMed him and he was like, sure, will come. And
Speaker 1: then he came and actually recreated that steak in your
Speaker 1: house and you ate it.
Speaker 3: This looked so good, So I asked, could he please
Speaker 3: come over and teach me something? He used to work
Speaker 3: for a Michelin Star restaurant, and I'm not really that
Speaker 3: kind of food because I want more.
Speaker 2: I like bulk.
Speaker 1: Yes, I like bulk too, I agree.
Speaker 2: And I don't need it to be so fancy. I
Speaker 2: need I needed like how do I make this?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: So yeah, he came over and he taught me how
Speaker 3: to make that steak. We made that, and then he
Speaker 3: came over again and made this Korean Southern fried chicken
Speaker 3: with coleslaw over waffles.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And it was incredible, but I will say it took
Speaker 2: like seven hours. He made the pastry.
Speaker 3: I said, like, dude, why don't you just get some
Speaker 3: Pillsbury dough crescent rolls. That was going to care once
Speaker 3: you put it in the wall, Homemaker, just the shape there,
Speaker 3: and he had like the layer of pastry and then
Speaker 3: the big thing of butter, and then more pastries.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god, it was the longest
Speaker 2: meal in the whole world.
Speaker 1: That's making puff pastry. It is gnarly making puff pastry
Speaker 1: from scratch. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was like a poissant that you put into a.
Speaker 1: That you then put in a waffle line. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 1: That's a croissant waffle.
Speaker 2: It's called a proffele.
Speaker 1: Oh ohissant any which way, Yeah, now I want that.
Speaker 1: And then he put fried chicken on top that.
Speaker 3: Was twice fried, and then after it was so crunchy,
Speaker 3: then he put it with this Korean kind of.
Speaker 2: It was salty, sweet, spicy.
Speaker 1: Salt, fat, acid sugar. Oh my god, I'm so hungry now.
Speaker 1: I just can't thank you enough. That's such a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 1: I've written so many things down just to go and remember.
Speaker 1: And waffles made out of puff postries. Mini Questions is
Speaker 1: hosted and written by Me, Mini Driver, Executive produced by
Speaker 1: Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support from Jennifer Bassett,
Speaker 1: Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. The theme music is also
Speaker 1: by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Special banks
Speaker 1: to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, A
Speaker 1: Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Mueller and Annette Wolfe, a w kPr,
Speaker 1: Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Levoy and mangesh A Tigadore.