WEBVTT - Not Lost Chat: Wild Sugar (Cheryl Strayed) 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:24.076 Pushkin. The other week, I was being pre interviewed for 0:00:24.316 --> 0:00:28.516 a chat with podcast Playlist with Leah Simone Bowen, a 0:00:28.596 --> 0:00:34.116 CBC show that features yes podcasts, and a pre interview 0:00:34.756 --> 0:00:37.956 is what some sophisticated shows do. They talk with a 0:00:38.076 --> 0:00:43.916 guest before they record the conversation, so everyone has an 0:00:43.916 --> 0:00:47.316 idea of what's going on. You will not be surprised 0:00:47.316 --> 0:00:50.156 to learn that we don't conduct pre interviews here on 0:00:50.236 --> 0:00:53.716 not Lost Chat. So I was being pre interviewed and 0:00:53.756 --> 0:00:56.876 the producer asked me who my favorite travel writers were, 0:00:57.796 --> 0:01:03.596 and my mind went completely blank. The name Nabokov jumped 0:01:03.596 --> 0:01:06.556 in my head, but as far as I know, he 0:01:07.156 --> 0:01:12.436 never really wrote about travel. And then I found myself saying, MFK. Fisher, 0:01:13.076 --> 0:01:16.476 but she was a food writer who did write about 0:01:16.956 --> 0:01:22.116 France and California, but not really on the nose. Then 0:01:22.276 --> 0:01:25.556 said something like, well, I don't really distinguish between what 0:01:25.796 --> 0:01:28.876 types of things people write about. I just have favorite 0:01:28.876 --> 0:01:34.036 writers something Millie Mouth like that, and for a moment 0:01:34.076 --> 0:01:37.036 I realized how hard it is to be on the 0:01:37.076 --> 0:01:40.596 other side of questions. It's funny when I interview someone, 0:01:40.676 --> 0:01:43.916 I often think they just have to answer questions. They 0:01:43.956 --> 0:01:46.196 don't have to think of questions, they don't have to 0:01:46.196 --> 0:01:49.276 fake laugh that it's much easier on that side. But 0:01:49.596 --> 0:01:53.076 that actually isn't really the case, and this pre interview 0:01:53.156 --> 0:01:56.556 reminded me of that. So I lumbered through it all 0:01:56.716 --> 0:02:00.556 and at the end the producer said something sassy like, well, 0:02:00.916 --> 0:02:02.676 at least now you have an idea of what you're 0:02:02.676 --> 0:02:06.396 going to be asked when we're conducting the interview, or 0:02:06.436 --> 0:02:13.396 something like that. Then later in the day, as I 0:02:13.556 --> 0:02:15.716 was coming home from work, walking through the park that 0:02:15.796 --> 0:02:20.516 separates my apartment from the subway, a book title popped 0:02:20.556 --> 0:02:24.276 into my head. Black Lamb and Gray Falcon by Rebecca West. 0:02:26.036 --> 0:02:30.796 This book which was written in nineteen thirty seven, when 0:02:30.876 --> 0:02:34.796 Europe was descending into war and terror. It's this hulking 0:02:34.916 --> 0:02:39.796 book about the former Yugoslavia, a place I've spent a 0:02:39.796 --> 0:02:44.996 lot of time in, and the addition I have is 0:02:45.596 --> 0:02:49.716 one thousand, one hundred and fifty pages long. It's the 0:02:49.796 --> 0:02:53.836 size of a cornerstone of a mausoleum, which is appropriate 0:02:53.916 --> 0:02:56.916 because you will kill yourself if you lug it around 0:02:56.956 --> 0:02:59.036 on your travel for weeks on end, as I have. 0:02:59.676 --> 0:03:01.356 If you were to drop it on your foot, you 0:03:01.396 --> 0:03:05.196 would break your foot and lose any deposit you had 0:03:05.236 --> 0:03:09.876 on your Airbnb. It's a real backbreaker. It is considered 0:03:10.076 --> 0:03:14.316 rightly one of the best travel logs ever written. Rebecca 0:03:14.356 --> 0:03:19.316 West herself was a towering journalist and cultural critic who 0:03:19.516 --> 0:03:23.156 is also known for covering the Norremberg Trials for The 0:03:23.236 --> 0:03:26.156 New Yorker and her type of writing in this book, 0:03:26.156 --> 0:03:28.356 which it wasn't just a personal journey she traveled with 0:03:28.356 --> 0:03:32.676 her husband, It wasn't just a dry history, it wasn't 0:03:32.756 --> 0:03:37.116 just for portage, but it was her applying her prodigious 0:03:37.156 --> 0:03:40.036 mind as she moved through this foreign land, trying to 0:03:40.116 --> 0:03:45.116 understand something about human beings. And as it would turn out, 0:03:45.596 --> 0:03:48.516 it became a document that gave just insight into this 0:03:48.596 --> 0:04:00.996 moment in Europe before everything changed. So as pleased with myself, 0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:02.836 I was like, great, when i sit for the actual 0:04:02.876 --> 0:04:06.396 interview with podcast playlist, I'm going to name drop this 0:04:06.476 --> 0:04:10.996 fantastic author, hit people to this cool book which maybe 0:04:11.036 --> 0:04:14.596 they haven't heard of, helped raise the profile of this 0:04:14.676 --> 0:04:18.436 wonderful author. And then when I sat down for the show, 0:04:20.396 --> 0:04:24.076 I was never asked the question. I was asked about 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:27.316 the favorite places I visited. I was asked about Eddison Greer. 0:04:28.236 --> 0:04:31.276 All perfectly fine, pleasant conversation, honored to be on the show, 0:04:31.676 --> 0:04:35.596 but I felt like I was a suitor left holding 0:04:35.756 --> 0:04:39.556 a bouquet of flowers behind my back with no opportunity 0:04:39.556 --> 0:04:46.756 to present them until now Rebecca West, Ladies and gentlemen investigate. 0:04:47.476 --> 0:04:49.996 And if she was alive today, I would have her 0:04:50.156 --> 0:04:55.196 on this series, but she's not so Instead, this week 0:04:55.476 --> 0:04:59.916 I've invited another fantastic female travel writer on the show, 0:05:00.356 --> 0:05:03.996 Sheryl Straight, who walked one thousand miles up the Pacific 0:05:03.996 --> 0:05:06.916 Coast Trail and wrote a book called Wild. We'll have 0:05:06.956 --> 0:05:09.756 a conversation with her and then she'll also her etiquette 0:05:09.796 --> 0:05:30.516 questions when Not Lost gets back. Welcome back to Not 0:05:30.636 --> 0:05:34.956 Lost Chat, my series of conversations with fellow travelers. I'm 0:05:34.996 --> 0:05:38.636 Brendan Francis, Newnham, and today I am talking with author 0:05:39.036 --> 0:05:45.196 Cheryl Strade and conveniently for us, for me, Chryl's creative 0:05:45.236 --> 0:05:50.476 life can be organized into two distinct categories that happened 0:05:50.516 --> 0:05:55.236 to perfectly align with this show. The first is life advisor. 0:05:55.876 --> 0:05:59.556 Charles spent years as an advice calumnist for online literary 0:05:59.596 --> 0:06:04.236 magazine The Rumpus, where she answered questions anonymously in a 0:06:04.276 --> 0:06:08.036 column called Deer Sugar, and then in twenty twelve, she 0:06:08.116 --> 0:06:11.396 compiled some of her advice into a book of essays 0:06:11.436 --> 0:06:15.836 called Tiny Beautiful Things, which became a bestseller and is 0:06:15.916 --> 0:06:20.916 now being adapted into a TV show for Hulu. So 0:06:21.116 --> 0:06:23.556 what I'm trying to say is Cheryl is a ringer 0:06:23.716 --> 0:06:26.756 for our travel etiquette segment, which will be coming up 0:06:26.836 --> 0:06:30.196 later in the show. But the main reason I wanted 0:06:30.276 --> 0:06:33.356 to speak with Cheryl is because of her other creative identity, 0:06:33.676 --> 0:06:38.716 that of travel memoirist. I think that's a word. A 0:06:38.756 --> 0:06:41.716 few months before she published that collection of essays, she 0:06:41.836 --> 0:06:46.676 published a book called Wild, which is about a year 0:06:46.716 --> 0:06:49.796 in her early twenties when charl lost her mother to 0:06:49.876 --> 0:06:54.236 lung cancer, divorced her first husband, started using heroin, and 0:06:54.276 --> 0:06:56.356 then to get away from it all, she decides to 0:06:56.396 --> 0:06:59.876 hike more than a thousand miles alone on the Pacific 0:06:59.916 --> 0:07:03.636 Coast Trail. It makes the premise of not Last Season 0:07:03.676 --> 0:07:09.556 one Like You Know, Elmo Travels Across Town Why became 0:07:09.556 --> 0:07:12.756 a huge bestseller and a hit movie starring Reese Witherspoon, 0:07:13.676 --> 0:07:16.716 and hiking the PCT and writing about it was a 0:07:16.796 --> 0:07:19.596 journey of self discovery for chryl. So the first thing 0:07:19.636 --> 0:07:21.396 I asked her when I met up with her was, 0:07:21.716 --> 0:07:24.516 why do some of us have this impulse to just 0:07:24.596 --> 0:07:28.396 start moving when big things happen to us. It's such 0:07:28.996 --> 0:07:32.116 a great question. There are so many layers of answers 0:07:32.156 --> 0:07:34.676 that I have to it. I think the first one 0:07:34.836 --> 0:07:37.956 is just a very sometimes a very simple and kind 0:07:37.956 --> 0:07:42.236 of surface impulse, which is to flee, to say, I 0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:46.996 need to escape this, this sorrow or this situation or 0:07:47.036 --> 0:07:49.876 this scene that I associate with things that hurt me. 0:07:49.916 --> 0:07:52.276 I need to get out of here, get out of dodge, 0:07:52.276 --> 0:07:55.036 as they say, right, we know that like when we 0:07:55.116 --> 0:07:59.516 go venture out to parts unknown and to places that 0:07:59.596 --> 0:08:02.796 maybe we feel kind of like an outsider or that 0:08:02.836 --> 0:08:04.956 feel foreign to us, or we feel challenged in some 0:08:05.036 --> 0:08:06.796 way because we aren't at home, we aren't in the 0:08:06.796 --> 0:08:10.396 comfort zone. We know that in those plays we're going 0:08:10.476 --> 0:08:14.316 to get what we most need at those moments where 0:08:14.316 --> 0:08:18.516 we feel lost or traumatized or adrift, and that is 0:08:18.836 --> 0:08:23.076 a deeper understanding of who we are and what the 0:08:23.116 --> 0:08:26.556 world is in our place in it. You know, when 0:08:26.556 --> 0:08:29.356 we step outside that comfort zone literally, which we do 0:08:29.396 --> 0:08:32.916 every time we travel, we have an opportunity to see 0:08:32.956 --> 0:08:36.436 ourselves more clearly and the world more deeply. And do 0:08:36.436 --> 0:08:40.436 you think that comes from Is it that we are 0:08:40.556 --> 0:08:44.196 away from our kind of patterns and the culture that 0:08:44.596 --> 0:08:47.276 has defined us, or is it also we're away from 0:08:47.316 --> 0:08:49.276 other people who kind of know us and have a 0:08:49.276 --> 0:08:54.076 certain framework for processing us. I think it's both. You know, 0:08:54.116 --> 0:08:57.316 the pattern thing is real. A pattern is essentially a habit, 0:08:57.516 --> 0:09:02.196 and travel shakes us out of that literally from everything 0:09:02.276 --> 0:09:05.556 from very often the food we eat, to the landscape 0:09:05.556 --> 0:09:07.516 we see when we look out the window or when 0:09:07.516 --> 0:09:10.116 we go on a hike, to in the case of 0:09:10.116 --> 0:09:12.796 foreign travel, even the language that we hear. Right, it's 0:09:12.796 --> 0:09:15.996 just everything is different and it has a way of 0:09:16.036 --> 0:09:19.716 waking us up because we have been broken out of 0:09:19.716 --> 0:09:24.996 that pattern. But I think something you say about being 0:09:25.076 --> 0:09:28.716 different too because you're away from the people who know 0:09:28.796 --> 0:09:32.196 you is really powerful as well, because, of course the 0:09:32.196 --> 0:09:35.596 people who know you, they're wonderful people. They love you, 0:09:35.636 --> 0:09:39.036 and very often some of them, but we are very 0:09:39.076 --> 0:09:41.836 often we rely on them to actually to know us, 0:09:41.836 --> 0:09:44.036 to be known as a wonderful feeling. It makes us 0:09:44.076 --> 0:09:48.876 feel secure and treasured and yes, sometimes awful. But you know. Generally, 0:09:49.036 --> 0:09:51.916 the people we know make us feel known, right, and 0:09:51.996 --> 0:09:57.596 that's a good feeling, but that can also turn, you know, 0:09:57.676 --> 0:10:00.956 on itself, and we realize that sometimes the people we 0:10:01.076 --> 0:10:04.356 know are the people who have in some ways defined 0:10:04.716 --> 0:10:08.916 us in ways that we no longer find accurate, or 0:10:09.116 --> 0:10:11.916 sometimes that we even no longer want to be accurate. 0:10:12.196 --> 0:10:16.276 For example, when I went alone on my Pacific Crest 0:10:16.316 --> 0:10:19.356 Trail hike in the summer of nineteen ninety five, part 0:10:19.396 --> 0:10:21.996 of it was getting away from this sort of group 0:10:22.036 --> 0:10:25.196 of twenty somethings i'd sort of been hanging out with. 0:10:25.356 --> 0:10:27.956 And I don't blame them for any of the self 0:10:27.996 --> 0:10:31.876 destructive behavior I was doing at that time, drinking too much, 0:10:32.396 --> 0:10:37.196 being wildly promiscuous, using heroin, you know, I don't put 0:10:37.236 --> 0:10:39.196 any of that on the people I was around. And 0:10:39.276 --> 0:10:43.516 yet those people were doing those things with me, and 0:10:43.556 --> 0:10:45.676 they saw me as part of them, and I was like, 0:10:45.836 --> 0:10:49.036 this isn't me, you know, this is not my life. 0:10:49.876 --> 0:10:53.876 And part of my decision to adventure away and go 0:10:53.996 --> 0:10:57.196 hike on the PCT was just saying like, I'm gonna 0:10:57.276 --> 0:10:59.956 be different. I'm gonna put myself in different company. Now, 0:10:59.996 --> 0:11:02.276 the company I put myself in was my own in 0:11:02.276 --> 0:11:05.676 the wilderness. Yeah, but you know, a similar thing can happen. 0:11:05.756 --> 0:11:07.276 If I had had more money, I just would have 0:11:07.316 --> 0:11:11.996 gone to Paris or something. So you hiked the trail 0:11:12.076 --> 0:11:15.396 in nineteen ninety five when you were twenty seven, and 0:11:15.476 --> 0:11:18.396 you published your memoir some years later when you're forty three. 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:21.356 I'm wondering which was more of a demarcation point in 0:11:21.356 --> 0:11:24.676 your life, the hike or writing the book and having 0:11:24.676 --> 0:11:28.956 it be published. Well, without question, the hike, you know, 0:11:28.996 --> 0:11:31.516 in my life was the demarcation point, you know. I 0:11:32.196 --> 0:11:36.876 began the trail honestly, really really at the lowest point 0:11:36.876 --> 0:11:40.236 in my life, really just feeling like what is my 0:11:40.356 --> 0:11:42.996 purpose and who have I become? And what is my meaning? 0:11:43.796 --> 0:11:47.836 And I didn't remember how strong I was. I didn't 0:11:47.876 --> 0:11:50.796 remember how brave I was. I didn't know how I 0:11:50.916 --> 0:11:53.036 was going to make good on my dreams of becoming 0:11:53.556 --> 0:11:57.916 a writer, you know. And on the course of that trip, 0:11:58.076 --> 0:12:01.396 as I walked step by step, I sort of taught 0:12:01.436 --> 0:12:05.636 myself the answers to all those questions. I taught myself, Oh, yeah, 0:12:05.676 --> 0:12:08.236 you are strong, and not because you're like, you know, 0:12:08.716 --> 0:12:12.556 so victorious or grand or triumphant, it's because you decide 0:12:12.556 --> 0:12:14.796 to keep going step by step even when it hurts. 0:12:15.236 --> 0:12:17.596 And so, you know, when I got back finished my hike, 0:12:17.916 --> 0:12:21.196 I then you know, went onward in my life in 0:12:21.236 --> 0:12:24.596 a way that was different. And of course writing the 0:12:24.636 --> 0:12:27.956 book was really powerful because it was like I got 0:12:28.036 --> 0:12:31.196 to look back and essentially like I had to you know, 0:12:31.236 --> 0:12:33.076 I had to tell the story and find the meaning 0:12:33.236 --> 0:12:35.396 in the story, the meaning that wasn't just about my life, 0:12:35.396 --> 0:12:38.116 but about what it means to be human. And so 0:12:38.236 --> 0:12:41.556 of course that was also a very emotional journey. You know, 0:12:41.596 --> 0:12:45.076 I learned a lot, but it didn't change my life 0:12:45.076 --> 0:12:47.836 in the way that the hike itself did. Am I 0:12:47.916 --> 0:12:50.236 missing out? Like there was an era where I did 0:12:50.396 --> 0:12:53.676 some I worked at Elisa National Park, I did do 0:12:53.796 --> 0:12:57.476 some out back hiking. I did encounter a bear, but 0:12:57.556 --> 0:13:00.676 I'm kind of good with that. Like like I'm like, 0:13:00.756 --> 0:13:02.516 I'm happy to look at the stars in the desert, 0:13:02.556 --> 0:13:04.796 but then I like would like a martini at the 0:13:04.796 --> 0:13:07.916 palms in so I can be missing out of some 0:13:08.156 --> 0:13:11.356 fundamental life moments if I just kind of skip out 0:13:11.396 --> 0:13:15.436 on the great outdoors from here. Yes, yes, damn yes 0:13:15.556 --> 0:13:17.516 you are. I mean, though I have to say it 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:19.716 like I feel, I feel for you because I'm really 0:13:19.716 --> 0:13:22.676 glad I did it when I was young, because it's 0:13:22.676 --> 0:13:24.756 a lot easier. I mean, that's what That's what I've 0:13:24.756 --> 0:13:26.596 amazed as me, Brendan. I'd like look back at that 0:13:26.676 --> 0:13:30.676 t and I'm like, I slept every night, you know, 0:13:30.716 --> 0:13:33.356 on the ground, just on the hard ground, right, you know. 0:13:33.796 --> 0:13:35.396 Now it's like, Okay, I got to have a tech 0:13:35.476 --> 0:13:37.756 repedic bed and like four pillows in the suit of 0:13:37.756 --> 0:13:41.116 a certain arrangement and a sleep mask. You know, it's 0:13:41.156 --> 0:13:43.956 just amazing how rough and tumble I was. But but 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:46.116 here's the deal with that. And I think that this 0:13:46.196 --> 0:13:51.436 is a larger truth about travel is that, you know, 0:13:51.516 --> 0:13:54.036 maybe it's doing what I did and sleeping in the 0:13:54.076 --> 0:13:56.796 dirt in the wilderness for days on end, and really 0:13:56.836 --> 0:13:59.156 being in a situation where you know, there were no 0:13:59.236 --> 0:14:01.796 luxuries at all. The extreme, you know, let's put it 0:14:01.796 --> 0:14:03.516 this way. When I would when I would come to 0:14:03.636 --> 0:14:06.316 you know, those those campgrounds in the woods where there's 0:14:06.356 --> 0:14:09.596 like an out house. If I came to a campground 0:14:09.596 --> 0:14:12.476 that had an outhouse like which in normal life most 0:14:12.476 --> 0:14:14.796 people are really repulsed by, I felt like I was 0:14:14.836 --> 0:14:17.236 like the Queen of England because I got to actually sit, 0:14:17.996 --> 0:14:21.956 you know, instead of squatting in the dirt, which I 0:14:21.996 --> 0:14:24.836 normally did. But you know, I think that that being 0:14:25.596 --> 0:14:32.316 really uncomfortable almost always is a really great teacher for us. 0:14:32.316 --> 0:14:35.636 The times that we have to endure, the times that 0:14:35.676 --> 0:14:38.076 we have to suffer, the times that we have to 0:14:38.156 --> 0:14:41.556 keep going even when it hurts, those are the times 0:14:41.756 --> 0:14:44.556 that build us and that make us that I think 0:14:44.596 --> 0:14:47.676 deep in any trip, and of course, you know, my 0:14:47.756 --> 0:14:50.036 hike in the PCT was one end of the spectrum, 0:14:50.116 --> 0:14:53.956 like quite quite difficult, but even just little things like 0:14:54.076 --> 0:14:57.556 last summer, my husband and I we went to Europe 0:14:57.556 --> 0:14:59.956 for seven weeks and we had this whole trip like 0:15:00.196 --> 0:15:04.076 planned from France to Wales to Greece to you know, 0:15:04.116 --> 0:15:06.996 all through all through central Europe and you know, up 0:15:07.036 --> 0:15:08.676 the Danube and all of these things. We were doing 0:15:08.716 --> 0:15:11.516 all these things, and our bags never made it with 0:15:11.636 --> 0:15:16.516 us and we got COVID. So it was like, Okay, 0:15:17.596 --> 0:15:20.796 this isn't fun, this is hard, and we are uncomfortable 0:15:20.996 --> 0:15:24.476 and in a foreign place. And it reminded me of 0:15:24.556 --> 0:15:27.156 some of those lessons I learned on the PCT, that 0:15:27.196 --> 0:15:31.276 those are the things that sometimes make the trip more interesting. Yeah, 0:15:31.316 --> 0:15:33.756 I mean, maybe I shouldn't say this as the host 0:15:33.796 --> 0:15:35.956 of a travel show, but it's also you can just 0:15:35.996 --> 0:15:39.676 live in New York. You can endure great difficulty every 0:15:39.756 --> 0:15:43.516 day and see the worst of humanity and still you know, 0:15:43.756 --> 0:15:47.556 get stronger hopefully. Question Mark. Absolutely, you know, I think 0:15:47.596 --> 0:15:51.716 that there is no city more like the wilderness the 0:15:51.836 --> 0:15:55.756 New York City. I remember very clearly feeling that way 0:15:55.796 --> 0:15:57.636 about it. You know, every time I go to New 0:15:57.716 --> 0:15:59.516 York City, it's like, this is like the wilderness because 0:15:59.516 --> 0:16:04.716 it's just so it's everything. It's it's everything, and you're 0:16:04.716 --> 0:16:08.276 both very connected and very alone, just like you are 0:16:08.276 --> 0:16:11.076 on the wilderness. Um so, so yeah, we're talking about 0:16:11.076 --> 0:16:13.916 wild You. Then, you know your book Tiny Beautiful Things, 0:16:13.996 --> 0:16:16.396 your column Dear Sugar, which you now do a sub 0:16:16.436 --> 0:16:19.756 stack called Deer Sugar. It's now Tiny Beautiful Things, which 0:16:19.796 --> 0:16:22.436 is a collection from some of the early days of 0:16:22.836 --> 0:16:25.756 your advice column, is now being turned into a TV show. 0:16:25.836 --> 0:16:29.716 And just read Sorrying Catherine Han like, holy cow, yes, 0:16:29.796 --> 0:16:33.476 would could you picked the better person? That's incredible? Well, 0:16:33.476 --> 0:16:35.596 my question is do people ever ask you questions about 0:16:35.716 --> 0:16:37.876 journeys or traveling? Oh that as you do this in 0:16:37.956 --> 0:16:41.276 all sorts of forms. That's interesting. You know. In the 0:16:41.476 --> 0:16:44.956 in the intervening years, Steve Almond den I had a 0:16:44.996 --> 0:16:48.196 podcast called Deer Sugars and it's an advice podcast. People 0:16:48.196 --> 0:16:51.156 wrote us letters and one thing that came up very often, 0:16:51.836 --> 0:16:53.756 I mean more than you would gas around it. It's 0:16:53.796 --> 0:16:59.236 like people are really conflicted about, um, location, like should 0:16:59.276 --> 0:17:01.996 I move. There was this one woman I'll never forget 0:17:01.996 --> 0:17:05.396 on the podcast. She went to Paris and met some 0:17:05.476 --> 0:17:08.396 like fabulous man and she was like, we fell in 0:17:08.436 --> 0:17:11.196 love and to Paris and be with him. And I 0:17:11.276 --> 0:17:15.676 was like, of course you should. And Steve was like, oh, 0:17:15.716 --> 0:17:17.396 you know, be careful in this and that. The other 0:17:17.476 --> 0:17:20.316 thing I'm like, I'm like, no, go, go go, and um, 0:17:20.556 --> 0:17:22.596 you know, I remember to a letter from somebody who 0:17:22.636 --> 0:17:25.036 met some hot Italian young man on the beach and 0:17:25.116 --> 0:17:27.796 data fling and I don't remember what she was asking 0:17:27.836 --> 0:17:30.676 about it, but I was always like, I'm always on 0:17:30.716 --> 0:17:36.676 the side of taking risks that involve venturing out, you know, 0:17:36.796 --> 0:17:39.076 And I do think that it is something that a 0:17:39.076 --> 0:17:41.556 lot of people grapple with. And another thing that I 0:17:41.636 --> 0:17:43.876 know has come up for people sometimes is like you know, 0:17:44.036 --> 0:17:47.076 is travel a good investment. Is this a good way 0:17:47.076 --> 0:17:49.796 to spend your money? Or should you be practical? Like 0:17:50.156 --> 0:17:52.396 I could put you know, ten thousand dollars in this 0:17:52.556 --> 0:17:56.036 savings account that I will have in my retirement, or 0:17:56.076 --> 0:17:58.956 I can take ten thousand dollars you know, to Kenya 0:17:59.036 --> 0:18:01.876 and I'll just tell you I've always been the person 0:18:01.916 --> 0:18:05.796 who will say go to Kenya. Definitely, absolutely definite. I 0:18:05.836 --> 0:18:08.396 feel like as I when I was younger, you know, 0:18:08.516 --> 0:18:12.396 corrupted by you know, Jack Carowake, etc. I was running 0:18:12.396 --> 0:18:14.676 around the Gamaniac. But now as I'm older, it's even 0:18:14.716 --> 0:18:17.036 more I'm feeling more urgency to see everything I can 0:18:17.116 --> 0:18:20.196 and and kind of not not because I feel like 0:18:20.276 --> 0:18:22.196 I'm going to miss out, but because I just know 0:18:22.916 --> 0:18:25.636 that I want to experience all, you know, all the things, 0:18:25.716 --> 0:18:28.156 and that our time is a little more limited than 0:18:28.196 --> 0:18:30.476 maybe we think when we're in our twenties. I see 0:18:30.516 --> 0:18:32.396 it the same way like I can tell that you're 0:18:32.476 --> 0:18:36.116 really a kindred spirit when it comes to this way 0:18:36.156 --> 0:18:38.476 of thinking, is I do I actually do think of 0:18:38.516 --> 0:18:42.876 it as an investment, you know that, like travel has 0:18:42.996 --> 0:18:48.196 really improved, like it's it's improved my well being. I 0:18:48.196 --> 0:18:50.636 think I'm a better writer because of travel. I think 0:18:50.636 --> 0:18:52.796 I'm a better person because of travel. I think I'm 0:18:52.796 --> 0:18:55.836 a better parent because of travel. And you know, it 0:18:55.876 --> 0:19:00.036 doesn't feel like just like vacation. You know, usually it's 0:19:00.116 --> 0:19:03.636 about having some kind of adventure or having some kind 0:19:03.676 --> 0:19:06.996 of going on a journey that's about something deeper than 0:19:07.636 --> 0:19:09.876 just seeing the sights and and I believe in that 0:19:10.156 --> 0:19:12.636 something that maybe everyone knows and thinks about this with you, 0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:15.636 but I didn't realize until I was revisiting your work. 0:19:16.076 --> 0:19:19.116 And forgive me for being such a ding that, but 0:19:19.236 --> 0:19:22.676 um strayed is your You chose that name, that's right, 0:19:23.076 --> 0:19:25.916 which to me, like again, for maybe there's even people 0:19:25.996 --> 0:19:28.116 encounter you with tiny beautiful things and just assume that 0:19:28.116 --> 0:19:30.396 your god given name. Can you remind us why you 0:19:30.516 --> 0:19:34.196 chose it? Yeah? So I was born Cheryl Nyland. My 0:19:34.596 --> 0:19:36.916 father's last name was Nyland, and that's what I was 0:19:36.956 --> 0:19:40.396 as a kid. And I got married just like scandalously young, 0:19:40.956 --> 0:19:43.916 no regrets in terms of like, I absolutely loved my 0:19:43.956 --> 0:19:46.076 first husband, so that was good. But you know, we 0:19:46.076 --> 0:19:49.516 were just young in love and you know, for reasons 0:19:49.596 --> 0:19:53.076 that are really crazy and useful, we decided to get married. 0:19:53.076 --> 0:19:55.116 We should have just fitting each other's boyfriend and girlfriend. 0:19:55.156 --> 0:19:56.596 But we decided to get married and we took on 0:19:56.636 --> 0:19:58.796 each other's names because we were like, we're going to 0:19:58.876 --> 0:20:00.996 be really feminist about it, and I'm going to take 0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:02.236 on your name, and you're gonna take a mine, and 0:20:02.236 --> 0:20:04.876 we're gonna have this really long name that was Nyland 0:20:04.916 --> 0:20:09.236 litig Well. And so when we got divorced, when I 0:20:09.276 --> 0:20:12.996 was like twenty five, I knew that I didn't want 0:20:12.996 --> 0:20:15.156 to go back to being Cheryl n Island. I was 0:20:15.316 --> 0:20:17.476 estranged for my dad since I was a young child. 0:20:17.516 --> 0:20:19.836 He was, you know, not a great dad. He was 0:20:19.876 --> 0:20:22.076 abusive and just not a good force in my life. 0:20:22.436 --> 0:20:24.756 And I knew I couldn't drag around this long hyphenated 0:20:24.836 --> 0:20:27.956 name from my marriage. And of course I'm a writer, 0:20:28.236 --> 0:20:31.756 you know, I'm somebody who thinks a lot about words 0:20:31.756 --> 0:20:34.156 and a lot about language. And so, and my mom 0:20:34.236 --> 0:20:36.316 was dead. I was really an orphan. I didn't have 0:20:36.356 --> 0:20:38.316 a father, I didn't have a mother, I didn't have 0:20:38.476 --> 0:20:42.676 really anything except my own life. And I knew that 0:20:43.236 --> 0:20:46.076 I needed to move into this new life with a 0:20:46.156 --> 0:20:49.716 word that would be that would become mine, that would 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:52.556 be become my true name. I spent a lot of 0:20:52.556 --> 0:20:55.236 time thinking about it wasn't just some sort of spontaneous thing. 0:20:55.756 --> 0:20:59.156 I really thought about different words that might define or 0:20:59.156 --> 0:21:02.276 communicate to myself in the world who I was. And 0:21:02.316 --> 0:21:06.516 I came upon this word strade, and I loved the 0:21:06.596 --> 0:21:08.796 meaning of it. You know, it really is somebody who 0:21:09.276 --> 0:21:14.036 who moves through the world, motherless and fatherless, somebody who 0:21:14.276 --> 0:21:18.156 strays off the regular path and finds their way. I 0:21:18.196 --> 0:21:19.756 think a lot of people hear that word straight and 0:21:19.796 --> 0:21:22.156 they think like, I was somebody who's lost, And for me, 0:21:22.276 --> 0:21:25.156 I think it's really somebody who sort of has to 0:21:25.196 --> 0:21:27.956 blaze their own trail. And when my husband and I 0:21:27.996 --> 0:21:30.716 got divorced, just on the divorce paperwork, you could write 0:21:30.756 --> 0:21:32.996 in this form my name after this divorce will be 0:21:33.716 --> 0:21:37.076 and I just wrote Cheryl Straight, and that's who I, 0:21:37.956 --> 0:21:41.196 you know, became. And what's so funny and interesting to me, Brendon, 0:21:41.236 --> 0:21:44.156 as so many people who ask about the name, We're like, well, Straight, 0:21:44.276 --> 0:21:46.636 isn't your real name? And it's like it is. It's 0:21:46.876 --> 0:21:49.076 It's the realist name I've ever had, you know, Like 0:21:49.116 --> 0:21:51.436 when women get married and take on their husband's name, 0:21:51.476 --> 0:21:54.836 like nobody says like, well, that's not your real name. Yeah. 0:21:54.876 --> 0:21:58.116 I particularly like how the words strayed, you know. I 0:21:58.156 --> 0:22:01.996 think initially the connotation people think, yeah, something like a 0:22:02.036 --> 0:22:05.516 stray cat, it's something abandoned, But there's a much broader 0:22:05.556 --> 0:22:08.436 definition about someone who kind of goes off the beaten path, 0:22:09.276 --> 0:22:11.316 fears away. And I like how you own that and 0:22:11.356 --> 0:22:14.876 then by the force of your success, that word is 0:22:14.916 --> 0:22:19.916 in every bookstore. You know, it's one movie screen, you know, 0:22:19.996 --> 0:22:22.196 like you you really you took it and made it 0:22:22.276 --> 0:22:26.876 your own. Love that my name is a sentence. I 0:22:26.996 --> 0:22:28.876 love that. I love that. I'm going to have to 0:22:28.876 --> 0:22:31.436 think about what my name would be if I were 0:22:31.556 --> 0:22:35.956 to name myself, it would probably be something like Brendan Knapps, 0:22:36.316 --> 0:22:38.916 Brendan Snacks. I'm gonna I'm gonna need to workshop it. 0:22:39.436 --> 0:22:42.116 In the meantime, we're gonna take a quick break. But 0:22:42.236 --> 0:22:44.636 when I come back, hopefully you will help me answer 0:22:44.636 --> 0:23:04.196 some travel questions. Stick around. Welcome back to Not Lost 0:23:04.236 --> 0:23:07.756 Chat Today. My guest is writer Chryl Straight and Chryl 0:23:08.156 --> 0:23:10.916 on this show, like my old show, which you also visited, 0:23:11.236 --> 0:23:14.956 we solicit etiquette questions, travel etiquette questions, and when I 0:23:15.036 --> 0:23:17.556 initially decided to talk with you, I wasn't going to 0:23:17.836 --> 0:23:21.436 ask you to answer questions, but when people found out 0:23:21.476 --> 0:23:24.236 I was talking with you, they immediately started giving me questions. 0:23:24.316 --> 0:23:26.756 So I'd like to run some of these value if 0:23:26.756 --> 0:23:31.316 that's okay, okay real? I mean, yeah, I'm an advice columnist. 0:23:31.316 --> 0:23:33.396 You know you are, no, I know, but I thought, 0:23:33.436 --> 0:23:35.476 you know, sometimes it's like the comedian at dinner and 0:23:35.476 --> 0:23:38.396