Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
Speaker 1: in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and fun.
Speaker 1: If I were to do an intro that I included
Speaker 1: all of the executive roles that this woman has held
Speaker 1: and the amazing recognition that she's gotten throughout her career,
Speaker 1: I would literally be here for days, Bosima or both.
Speaker 1: Saint John has been a major for US in marketing
Speaker 1: for some of the biggest, most successful companies around, corporations
Speaker 1: like Pepsi, Apple Music, and.
Speaker 2: Netflix, just to name a few.
Speaker 1: She's not only used her experience in marketing to educate others,
Speaker 1: but she also has shared her own personal brief story
Speaker 1: to empower others to live an urgent and present life.
Speaker 1: She also happens to be unbelievably fabulous and glamorous and
Speaker 1: unapologetically herself. I am so thrilled she's on the pod today,
Speaker 1: So every one, meet Boss Saint John.
Speaker 2: I am so excited. So let's jump right into it.
Speaker 1: You're like Gorge and you're doing it, so here we go.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about so many things,
Speaker 1: but I think I first want to talk about sort
Speaker 1: of like highlights of childhood like an amazing kid? Were
Speaker 1: you dynamic? Were you like I got to get out
Speaker 1: of here? Where were you born?
Speaker 2: I mean? And I know, but I want you to share?
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, Well even before I get
Speaker 3: to that, can I just tell you that I'm so
Speaker 3: obsessed with the name of this podcast, Like I am,
Speaker 3: I'm a real like marketing nerd. Yeah, you know, like me.
Speaker 2: Too, I'm a closet marketing nerd.
Speaker 3: I'm like I could, I will really like, don't take
Speaker 3: me to a cocktail party and then like I get
Speaker 3: stuck in the corner with somebody who likes a little
Speaker 3: bit about marketing, I will goo. And so I saw
Speaker 3: theme of this podcast and I was just like, this
Speaker 3: is so damn brilliant.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, because you know what that means.
Speaker 3: You know exactly what that means. You know how hard
Speaker 3: that is. You know exactly the type of person we're
Speaker 3: talking about. You know, we know the ambition that it's
Speaker 3: going to require. Like, girl, if you slip a little
Speaker 3: bit with that leg stiletto, grab mom with the other arms,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean?
Speaker 1: Correct, It's exact. And I always tell people it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the amazing women I've had in here,
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, I don't wear heels.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what this means? Like, you know
Speaker 2: what this means.
Speaker 3: You know what this means.
Speaker 1: It's about embracing the powers of femininity and whatever that
Speaker 1: means to you while you're crushing great.
Speaker 3: This that's that's the whole thing. So that's what I
Speaker 3: first one to say.
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It means a lot to me because naming things is everything.
Speaker 3: Yes, the name, fabulous name. So how did I get here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean listen, share as much or as little you
Speaker 1: can give me the flash to like, really the meat
Speaker 1: if you want, whatever, whatever works for you.
Speaker 2: I just like to know why you're you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do feel like my child. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think everybody's childhood really does frame who they are. But
Speaker 3: I think there's some people who really come into themselves,
Speaker 3: like in their twenties or in their thirties or maybe
Speaker 3: even your forties. But I came to myself at twelve,
Speaker 3: it really did, you know. It's like, So I was
Speaker 3: born in the US in Middletown, Connecticut. My dad was
Speaker 3: getting two PhDs at Wesley University. He's an immigrant United States. Yeah,
Speaker 3: He was an immigrant from Ghana. My mom joined him
Speaker 3: here and they were like the classic immigrant story, you know,
Speaker 3: my dad came to get a better education, better way
Speaker 3: of life. But he's truly a Pan Africanist, you know,
Speaker 3: like one of those like sixties type guys who was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: power to the people, you know, were Africa. Yeah. And
Speaker 3: so what was happening at the time is that there
Speaker 3: was this you know movement it was WB Duvoyce called
Speaker 3: the Town to tenth, you know, where it's like scooped
Speaker 3: up the top ten percent of brain power and put
Speaker 3: them in the US and the UK and you know
Speaker 3: other places. My dad was one of those people. But
Speaker 3: he decided that he didn't want to stay in the US.
Speaker 3: He went back to Donna, you know, and after teaching university,
Speaker 3: he joined politics and was in a government that was
Speaker 3: sadly overthrown about you know, three years into the administration,
Speaker 3: and that's what eventually drove us back, you know, to
Speaker 3: the US. But you know, we were in Kenya, and
Speaker 3: we were in California and DC and like all these places.
Speaker 3: So my childhood was very chaotic. You know, I moved
Speaker 3: around a lot, and for me, I think part of
Speaker 3: the reason why I say I came to myself at
Speaker 3: twelve is that we finally settled in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: I was twelve, random, seventh girl. Okay, seven, great.
Speaker 2: Right when you're like boom teenager, cool girl.
Speaker 3: And I'm also super tall. I've been like literally six
Speaker 3: feet tall since I was like thirteen.
Speaker 1: I just want you to know to me, that's like
Speaker 1: showing off. I just want you to I just like
Speaker 1: crushed my soul. I do know that I have zero
Speaker 1: sympathy for my friends that are like I was so awkward,
Speaker 1: and when I was in school, I'm like.
Speaker 3: Okay, but at twelve, you don't want to be six
Speaker 3: weeks old. I'm telling you, okay. And then plus I
Speaker 3: was like okay, maybe okay, you're you're the one I
Speaker 3: did not. I would have happily traded places with everybody else,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And I'm serious, I would traded.
Speaker 3: I would have I would rather have been blonde, I
Speaker 3: would rather have blue eyes. I wanted to have white skin.
Speaker 3: I wanted to be shorter, I wanted not to top
Speaker 3: of an accent. I didn't want the food I ate
Speaker 3: at home, like all of the things. I was like
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be different from anybody else in
Speaker 3: Cardas Breaks. But God bless my mother. God blessed my mother,
Speaker 3: who in our household. She's a stay at home mom.
Speaker 3: She was adamant about her pride for not just being black,
Speaker 3: but being after, you know, and it forced me into
Speaker 3: my own I won't even say acceptance with celebration. You know,
Speaker 3: it's super hard. It's pretty enough. Like imagine when the
Speaker 3: teacher is like calling out the names and I'm just like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, she's gonna mess up in it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the dread of it, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 3: was just like, call me some nicknames. I don't know,
Speaker 3: you know. But my mother was like, hey, look, when
Speaker 3: your little girlfriends come over here, you know, to come
Speaker 3: hang out at the house or sleep over whatever. Finally,
Speaker 3: when I've been accepted into the cool girls club, you know,
Speaker 3: and they were coming over and I was like, please,
Speaker 3: can we have some pizza or like, can you get
Speaker 3: McDonald's or like something that they would like, and she.
Speaker 2: Was make my friends, make my friends happy.
Speaker 3: Look yes, and she was like, no, we're not going
Speaker 3: to do that. We're I'm gonna make them some Ghanian
Speaker 3: food and we're gonna eat that. And I was like, please,
Speaker 3: I beg you like anything but that girl, let me
Speaker 3: tell you how. My best friend, Summer okay, who was
Speaker 3: the epitome of like the call Springs girl right, her
Speaker 3: name is Summer. I mean, come on, give me a break.
Speaker 2: Like it's like she's just oh, I have the visual.
Speaker 2: I have the visual.
Speaker 1: You already have the blondest hair, the bluest eyes, the
Speaker 1: fairest skin.
Speaker 3: Beautiful English. I got captain the cheerleading squad. That girl, Okay,
Speaker 3: someone's my best friend. And Summer came to visit me
Speaker 3: like two weeks ago, and my mom lives very close
Speaker 3: by to me, and she was like, can I know
Speaker 3: your mom's finished stew And I'm like, oh my god, her,
Speaker 3: you said, thirty years later, you're still asking for my
Speaker 3: mom's Ghanian food, you know what I mean. And so
Speaker 3: it's that kind of you know, real middle you know,
Speaker 3: which would not allow for me to be ashamed of
Speaker 3: my name, wouldn't allow me to be ashamed of my heritage,
Speaker 3: wouldn't allow me to be ashamed of my food. So, girl,
Speaker 3: when I tell you that, when I walk into rooms
Speaker 3: and people are like, oh, how are you so confident.
Speaker 3: This room is a little bit but I'm just like,
Speaker 3: are you like you didn't grow up with my mom.
Speaker 3: But my mom was like, girl, they are going to
Speaker 3: bend to you. You are not going to bend to them.
Speaker 2: You are not assessed with her. I'm obsessed with her.
Speaker 3: She's also completely bald and fierce.
Speaker 2: She's probably like stunning with not like a rink.
Speaker 3: Face exactly serves face for days, for days, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean she so for me, it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: my childhood was that, but it was also me being
Speaker 3: obsessed with pop culture because at the time, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like I just wanted to fit in. So I
Speaker 3: wanted to figure out, okay, like what what does everybody
Speaker 3: like to do? What do they like to talk about?
Speaker 3: You know, what is cool to them? And I found that,
Speaker 3: like this very studied approach of like understanding pop culture
Speaker 3: just like normal conversation, was also a natural curiosity which
Speaker 3: I've never lost. So it's like, as a marketer, it
Speaker 3: serves me so beautifully because I want to know everything.
Speaker 3: I want everything about fashion, I want on everything about sports,
Speaker 3: I want to know about film, I want to know
Speaker 3: about politics, I want to know out give me any topic, girl,
Speaker 3: I promise you I know something about it.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm obsessed.
Speaker 1: So okay, no, because you know, I so believe in
Speaker 1: And that's why I always like to touch on childhood because
Speaker 1: I do think especially my kids now are ten and thirteen,
Speaker 1: and I'm watching them form into these people, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone tells parents when they have their
Speaker 1: kids how important that like zero to fourteen is right,
Speaker 1: Like it's all important, right until they leave you, it's
Speaker 1: all important and even after that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but that is the like give.
Speaker 1: Them the confidence, get like, let them be them, try
Speaker 1: and teach them. It's okay to beat them. So what
Speaker 1: your mom did especially then, right because this is not
Speaker 1: a year ago, you know, I think easier now probably
Speaker 1: like good for her.
Speaker 2: And also in the middle of Colorado Springs, so.
Speaker 3: Okay, in the middle of Coado Springs to be like, girl,
Speaker 3: we're not going to have pizza hut, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. She's like, no, we're not having pizza hut.
Speaker 2: Having spinach still deal with that.
Speaker 3: That's right exactly, And it's gonna be hot with Pepper
Speaker 3: and your little white friends are gonna have their rosy
Speaker 3: cheeks and you know what I mean, they're just gonna cry.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how long did you stay there? Like at
Speaker 1: what point did you peace out from there?
Speaker 2: Where you were like I know?
Speaker 3: Right? Well, you know, Here's what's so funny is that
Speaker 3: people ask me where I'm from or like where's home?
Speaker 3: I would say, you do, I'd say College Springs because
Speaker 3: it feels like that those were the like formative.
Speaker 2: Years, like where you became.
Speaker 3: Yes, but it was only like five years of my life,
Speaker 3: and so now I think about it, I'm just like, God,
Speaker 3: what a small amount of time. But it was so
Speaker 3: impactful to me as who I am that it's where
Speaker 3: I say I'm from. Although I grew up in so
Speaker 3: many places, and when I was eighteen and ready to
Speaker 3: go to college, girl, I was out of there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was like, first, give me to the East Coast,
Speaker 3: let me go.
Speaker 1: But I would I would argue to say twelve to seventeen.
Speaker 1: I mean that those are the years where, like right,
Speaker 1: you make or break as it either fall off or
Speaker 1: you keep going.
Speaker 3: Exactly like those formed of years solidified. I think my personality,
Speaker 3: you know, the curiosity they have about people, you know,
Speaker 3: my empathy for people, and for you know, everyone who
Speaker 3: has ever othered you know, it's like all of that
Speaker 3: stuff was born there.
Speaker 1: You had a fearless mom too, which I would venture
Speaker 1: to say that like some of the most successful women
Speaker 1: I know, in fact likely all come from fearless moms,
Speaker 1: strong moms, and also like very often single moms. So
Speaker 1: why marketing and where do you go to school? Because
Speaker 1: marketing is something that I always talk about because if
Speaker 1: I had a penny for every girl, right like as
Speaker 1: a senior in college, they're like, I think I just
Speaker 1: want to be in marketing, And I'm like, okay, I
Speaker 1: need you to understand the importance of marketing.
Speaker 3: Yes, and like, yes, what of means?
Speaker 2: It doesn't all?
Speaker 1: So like marketing makes or breaks not just a brand,
Speaker 1: but a person. And you could take the least talented
Speaker 1: singer and they go to number one because the marketing.
Speaker 2: They may not stay there.
Speaker 3: But they may not stay there, I mean there are
Speaker 3: some tricks to help them, say for at least a
Speaker 3: little bit, you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, talent.
Speaker 3: But you're right, You're right. I had the opposite, like
Speaker 3: sort of upbringing where I didn't know marketing was actually
Speaker 3: a career for an opportunity. Like I said, my parents
Speaker 3: are immigrants. They were very clear that there were only
Speaker 3: three professions maybe four, that I could do. I could
Speaker 3: be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, perhaps an accountant,
Speaker 3: but that was only like the very like if you
Speaker 3: really couldn't do anything else, you know, sure, no kill me.
Speaker 3: I was actually pre med in college Sewer. You know,
Speaker 3: I did all of the things, you know, but when
Speaker 3: I graduated, I definitely didn't want to go to med school.
Speaker 3: But I didn't know what I wanted to do. And
Speaker 3: I you know, I took the m cat like I
Speaker 3: did all the things, and then I said, okay, well no,
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to New York for a year.
Speaker 3: And my parents were very against the idea. They refused
Speaker 3: to you know, they would not support me in it
Speaker 3: at all. Like they were like, okay, you go, you
Speaker 3: manage it yourself, like whatever you pay for your own way,
Speaker 3: do whatever you're going to do. We'll be over here
Speaker 3: waiting for you when you're read for med school.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I've heard this before. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: this is not uncommon.
Speaker 3: Yes, but and the thing is that you know, it's like, look,
Speaker 3: I have a daughter, she's fifteen. I can't imagine how
Speaker 3: terrified I would be, you know, even at twenty one
Speaker 3: if she were like in some big city by herself,
Speaker 3: doesn't know a soul, you know, all that stuffe And so, like,
Speaker 3: I think back to what I'm just like, either they
Speaker 3: were like very confident in my survival skills.
Speaker 2: What didn't give a.
Speaker 3: Shit about me?
Speaker 2: Like I'm like, which one is?
Speaker 3: Look, I don't know where, you know, but you know,
Speaker 3: God blessed, Like it really worked out because I knew
Speaker 3: one person, actually one person that I had gone to
Speaker 3: college with. She graduated a year before me, and she
Speaker 3: was at Columbia Film School. She was getting her master's
Speaker 3: and so I negotiated with her even then I had
Speaker 3: the talent and negotiation of course, to be able to
Speaker 3: stay on her couch. She had a roommate, her and
Speaker 3: her roommate's couch, and I would cook, you know, that
Speaker 3: was basically like my my contribution, and so I, you know,
Speaker 3: would get up every day. And again, you know, we're
Speaker 3: talking about twenty five years ago, so you know, there
Speaker 3: was there weren't cell phones, so there was the corner
Speaker 3: like the payphone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was living there at the same time as it.
Speaker 3: Set and Broadway under the train, the one in the
Speaker 3: nine across it, like on the corner of Floridita Human
Speaker 3: Restaurant right there. And what I would do is I
Speaker 3: would get up in the morning. I signed up for
Speaker 3: like a temp agency, and I'd get up in the morning.
Speaker 3: The first call was at seven thirty, and then you
Speaker 3: call every fifteen minutes until you got play someplace, you know.
Speaker 3: And I would go inside of Floridita in between the
Speaker 3: times when I'd go to the pay phone to call,
Speaker 3: and girl, I mean it was like that was like
Speaker 3: just hard, hard hard knuckles, like just I didn't have
Speaker 3: enough money for food. So the very kind lady who
Speaker 3: I wish Rachel, I wish I could find this woman
Speaker 3: who didn't speak English, only spoke Spanish. But somehow we're
Speaker 3: able to communicate, you know. And every day she's like
Speaker 3: I was too proud to also ask, you know what,
Speaker 3: I mean, to slide me like a buttered roll, you know.
Speaker 3: I And the first few times I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I'm fine, it's okay, it's okay. I just you know,
Speaker 3: I just want to sit down, it's okay, you know,
Speaker 3: But girl, I was my mouth was watering, and I
Speaker 3: was like, you know, so eventually one day I just
Speaker 3: I took the damn buttered roll and she was so
Speaker 3: happy and every day like I, you know, sometimes I
Speaker 3: would and get a job. I want to get placed,
Speaker 3: and so then i'm you know, come in and just
Speaker 3: say bye for the day. She only knew a couple
Speaker 3: of words in English, but she would say like she would,
Speaker 3: she'd be like, you know, today's.
Speaker 1: The day, right today, this is your day, right right
Speaker 1: right right, I feel and.
Speaker 3: I will never forget it. Like even now, you know,
Speaker 3: in tough situations or like you know, when you get
Speaker 3: antsy about a big decision or a deal you've got
Speaker 3: to strike or whatever, I'm always like, today's day, Today's day.
Speaker 3: It's going to happen today, you know. And it really
Speaker 3: kept me going. And the thing is that, like, look,
Speaker 3: Destiny came to meet me on that corner of one
Speaker 3: hundred and Twain Fiftreet and Broadway. I gotta I called
Speaker 3: in and Spike Lee have such This is like I
Speaker 3: tell you, Destiny literally came and met me at that corner,
Speaker 3: and I got a placement with Spike Lee because he
Speaker 3: had assistant. You're okay, but but here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, by the way, today was the day. Today
Speaker 2: was today.
Speaker 3: It was today, that was the day. That was the day. Okay.
Speaker 3: And I walked into that office thinking, okay, well I'm
Speaker 3: here for like two or three days, right while he
Speaker 3: finds the replacement. So let me make the best of it,
Speaker 3: you know, like, let me not get in the way.
Speaker 3: But you know, blah blah blah. And again, like I
Speaker 3: swear to you, Destiny keeps meeting me in places. Because
Speaker 3: that man walked into the office that day and as
Speaker 3: he's passing by, I'm literally like, oh, you know, there's
Speaker 3: Spike Lee. And he looks at me. I have like
Speaker 3: my hair pulled back in a tight, you know, bun
Speaker 3: in the back. I'm wearing like the only gray polyester
Speaker 3: suit I have. I swear you was polsyll Of.
Speaker 2: Course it was you cud, you couldn't eat? What were
Speaker 2: you buy clothes?
Speaker 3: Was gonna be exactly no. And he says, and he
Speaker 3: we're still friends now, and he remembers that his first
Speaker 3: thought and words to me were, oh God, damn it,
Speaker 3: they sent me miss America. And I was like, this
Speaker 3: is America. And I had my retort. I was like
Speaker 3: excuse me. I'm a pre med major from Wesleyan University
Speaker 3: and I'm here to answer your phone.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 3: He was like, what the hell. But here's the thing, Rachel.
Speaker 3: He had a manuscript under his arm. And because in
Speaker 3: college I also studied African American authors and I took
Speaker 3: a minor in African American English, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: what do you have? And it was his script for Bamboozled,
Speaker 3: a film that he was making it. And I asked
Speaker 3: him if I could read it, and like, because I
Speaker 3: was naive and stupid, I didn't know any better. And
Speaker 3: so he hands me the manuscript like sure, here, here
Speaker 3: you go. My first day, Rachel, first day, the first
Speaker 3: time have met this man. And so he's like me,
Speaker 3: go ahead and read it and give me your thoughts.
Speaker 3: So I take a red pen two this manuscript. Girl.
Speaker 3: He literally, if you ask him the story, he'll tell you.
Speaker 3: I took a red pen to it. I made some corrections,
Speaker 3: I made some suggestions to character development. Grammar was all
Speaker 3: kind of off. I was like, why would people speak
Speaker 3: this way? No, that's not the correcting. And that that
Speaker 3: was really the start of everything, because he had started
Speaker 3: an ad agency in partnership with D d B, which
Speaker 3: is a storied you know, ad agency, I know, yeah,
Speaker 3: four thirty seven Madison Avenue, you know. And it was
Speaker 3: like anxiety KKR.
Speaker 2: There was like medium ye yes, yes, yes, there was like.
Speaker 3: You yes, there's like a story, big ones. Then he said,
Speaker 3: you know you should stick around and I was like,
Speaker 3: I have a job. I have a job, have a job.
Speaker 3: So that was four years of working underneath Spike, like,
Speaker 3: you know, learning his ways of managing, of being unapologetic
Speaker 3: of his creativity and his discipline to it, and just
Speaker 3: I mean, how much better do you get that, you know,
Speaker 3: being an understudy to somebody of that caliber. But it
Speaker 3: really sparked for me the idea that there was a
Speaker 3: world of advertising and marketing that could be infused with
Speaker 3: pop culture where my opinion could be important. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like all of these things. And that's that's what
Speaker 3: started it.
Speaker 2: That is such a sick story.
Speaker 1: First of all, I think your next book should be
Speaker 1: called Today's the Day, Today's the Day, because I'm going
Speaker 1: to take that with me if you don't mind if.
Speaker 2: I repress that.
Speaker 1: I think in living, whether you're in corporate or whether
Speaker 1: you're an entrepreneur, whether you're trying to act or whatever,
Speaker 1: saying whatever it is. I think you always have that
Speaker 1: feeling of the you know, I talk with pretty much
Speaker 1: anyone on the pod that it's this, it's this this, Yes, it's.
Speaker 2: Not bally like this.
Speaker 3: Right, I've never like that.
Speaker 1: No, right, no, And so I think with that it's
Speaker 1: nice to have those moments in your personal and professional
Speaker 1: life where you wake up and go, today's the day.
Speaker 1: And I myself, I would say I'm guilty of really
Speaker 1: never doing that. I actually like go the other way,
Speaker 1: which is like, oh, it's never happening, right. So that
Speaker 1: was like, I really, I'm soaking that one up.
Speaker 2: If that's okay?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the day, the day, so.
Speaker 1: So okay, So this is so right? So then how
Speaker 1: do you go from this? From this?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Why why would one leave? And where do you go
Speaker 1: after that? Because you're young at this point, right, you're
Speaker 1: probably not even thirty, right, in your mid twenties.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, By the time I left Spikes twenty right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, so I'd worked for him, But the thing
Speaker 3: is that he had given me such a gift, you know,
Speaker 3: of appreciating my opinion, you know, not letting me feel
Speaker 3: like I was too young to have a good idea.
Speaker 3: In fact, it was my idea that led him to
Speaker 3: It was just again a confluence of moments. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like he was pitching PepsiCo for their business, for
Speaker 3: their marketing business, or a slice of it anyway, and
Speaker 3: they were looking for, you know, the next new like,
Speaker 3: you know, spokesperson, but can he wanted it to be
Speaker 3: a black performer. And at the time, I was out
Speaker 3: in the streets in New York City and Beyonce had
Speaker 3: just left Destiny's Child Casual and people were hating on her.
Speaker 3: You know, at the time, I think people don't remember that.
Speaker 2: They were not happy.
Speaker 1: They were not Like when John Lennon left the Beatles,
Speaker 1: it was like a huge issue.
Speaker 3: I mean they were literally, well, you're not going to succeed,
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, they were literally like, oh, you know, now,
Speaker 3: you know, no solo artists has ever succeeded from a
Speaker 3: girl group except for Diana Ross, and you're not gonna
Speaker 3: be her, you know. And then she was also like
Speaker 3: trying to act, and she was trying to do all
Speaker 3: these things, and she was in a TV movie on
Speaker 3: MTV called Carmen The hip hopera Okay, destroyed by critics.
Speaker 3: I loved it. I thought it was brilliant, you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 3: Like I was like, are you kidding me? Like we've
Speaker 3: got opera, and we've got like like classic opera, and
Speaker 3: you got Beyonce singing it. Oh, and they're people rapping
Speaker 3: as well, like this this is incredible, you know. And
Speaker 3: Spike was asking people around the office, you know, like
Speaker 3: who they thought would be great as the spokes for
Speaker 3: us and this and that and folks you know, were
Speaker 3: on the billboard charts. They were, you know, calling out
Speaker 3: names all these big artists. And I was like, I
Speaker 3: think Beyonce is it. And everybody was like I don't
Speaker 3: think you know, she's not gonna blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But Spike listened to me. Spike, he knows, and he
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, we'll take a meeting with her. She
Speaker 3: came in. I was always here, like, girl, you go
Speaker 3: get them. You just you the baddest, you know, you know,
Speaker 3: by the way, still friends with them, Still friends with
Speaker 3: Miss Tina, and Miss Tina remembers that I was like, hmm, yep,
Speaker 3: she's the one.
Speaker 1: Beyonce, the fucking queen and anyone who says otherwise, I
Speaker 1: will fight too.
Speaker 3: There were plenty of people who says she wasn't, but
Speaker 3: Spike believed. And so by the time I was ready
Speaker 3: to leave his agency, he had given me the confidence
Speaker 3: that like, look, you're never too young to have the
Speaker 3: best idea in the room, you know, like, you know,
Speaker 3: because everybody else might have the criteria, might have the education,
Speaker 3: might have the credentials, but if you have a great idea,
Speaker 3: you're gonna win. Yeah, this is right. So when I
Speaker 3: was ready to leave, at the same time, PepsiCo was looking,
Speaker 3: you know, to hire some more people, and they were
Speaker 3: going to do it in an untraditional way because usually
Speaker 3: the marketers come from you know, the big you know,
Speaker 3: like MBAs. And I was still over here with my
Speaker 3: mcat that was about to expire, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: and like, oh, yeah, I'm not gonna go med school
Speaker 3: and I'm definitely not getting an NBA. You can forget that.
Speaker 3: So they offered me a job, which again it's like
Speaker 3: Destiny came in to meet me again, and I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I think I have to take this opportunity.
Speaker 3: Even though there's nobody else liked me because everybody else
Speaker 3: came together in a class with their other NBA students
Speaker 3: were interns, and then they got offers to be you know,
Speaker 3: assistant brand managers.
Speaker 4: Like there was a through the correct and here I
Speaker 4: was climbing through the window talking about I'm a huge
Speaker 4: believer of climbing through the window.
Speaker 1: In fact, everything I've done in my life is probably
Speaker 1: climbing through the window. I've never I don't have the
Speaker 1: patience for this, you know, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't have it, Rachel, I don't. So now it's
Speaker 3: like we're not just climbing in heels. We're climbing in
Speaker 3: heels through the window, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 3: that we through the window.
Speaker 1: That's how we came in a hundred and then but
Speaker 1: then you like went on to like Uber Endeavor Apple
Speaker 1: like nets, right, so you have like so is it
Speaker 1: like you kind of go somewhere and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm here for a reason and a purpose.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do my thing.
Speaker 1: And then when I'm like okay, we're good here, then
Speaker 1: it's like we move on, yes right, yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And I'm so glad for the experience because
Speaker 3: the thing is that look looking back at my career.
Speaker 3: People will be like, oh, this is great strategy, a
Speaker 3: great plan, blah blah blah. You named all the companies,
Speaker 3: c suite. I'm in the Hall of fame. I'm at
Speaker 3: the Hall of achievement. I'm a bill board, like I've
Speaker 3: got all the credentials. So, like, you know, for me,
Speaker 3: it's like I have had a career which has just
Speaker 3: been boom boom boom boom, boom, boom boom, right, but
Speaker 3: people will look at it and be like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: this is a brilliant strategy. I can't believe she moved here.
Speaker 3: She moved here, she moved here. But Rachel, I promise you,
Speaker 3: I promise you. It has been at my own pace
Speaker 3: against a lot of advice everyone who has been like,
Speaker 3: oh no, don't do that, don't go there. That company
Speaker 3: is shit, that manager's terrible, that CEO is crazy, like
Speaker 3: all of the things along my entire career even now. Okay,
Speaker 3: so I'm like, thank God that the experiences I've had
Speaker 3: have made me have to listen to myself and only myself,
Speaker 3: Like I keep my own counsel. I don't ask anybody
Speaker 3: for their advice on what career move. I should mean
Speaker 3: thank God, because imagine if I listen to somebody else,
Speaker 3: I'd be still sitting back overin middle management. Yeah, trying
Speaker 3: to figure out who that I should wear today? False?
Speaker 3: Is it a being here with you and my friend
Speaker 3: in sequence and my hearings.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to if I can love you
Speaker 1: so much. I want to talk to you just quickly
Speaker 1: about social media because it's something I get asked a lot,
Speaker 1: sort of the impact on the fashion industry and everything
Speaker 1: else marketing at this point, you know, as someone who
Speaker 1: has sort of like you know, I've had those are report.
Speaker 1: I've done all social media as I've done television, have
Speaker 1: done all the things I wouldn't at this point. You know,
Speaker 1: social media for me started as ten percent of my life.
Speaker 1: Now it is I can't even say what percentage it
Speaker 1: is because it's.
Speaker 2: It's such a big part.
Speaker 1: Of everything I do in terms of amplification. So being
Speaker 1: that you are the queen, how like, what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that? Because when you started it wasn't about that, right,
Speaker 1: and so do you feel that it's only good? Do
Speaker 1: you feel that it's like, I just want to understand
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, because I have I have love
Speaker 1: hates with it for sure, you know.
Speaker 3: But yeah, and fair, fair, But here's the thing I
Speaker 3: think for me, social media is just another platform, yeah,
Speaker 3: to tell us story, you know. So for me, it's
Speaker 3: like I don't look at social media and think like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, it's like you know, the next worst thing,
Speaker 3: or it's like the greatest thing ever. It's just another platform.
Speaker 3: So it's like the point is that mastery of the narrative,
Speaker 3: mastery of your story, mastery of the message, and then
Speaker 3: figuring out what platform is going to work best on,
Speaker 3: because let's not forget it that, like, you know, platforms
Speaker 3: from like the Roman Empire are still available today.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like when they went in like tagged, you know,
Speaker 3: like a sign in the town square. They're called billboards
Speaker 3: and it's in Times Square right now. Okay, so I'm like,
Speaker 3: look those things still exist.
Speaker 1: Which I still by the way, very much same same. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a bus, a bus side, a bus.
Speaker 3: Side, Okay, some like graffiti, I believe, with all of
Speaker 3: the stuff. So it's like social media is like the
Speaker 3: challenge that we have right for creators like you, like me,
Speaker 3: like whomever. It doesn't matter if you have seven million
Speaker 3: followers or three hundred. It's that what story are you
Speaker 3: telling and make sure it's appropriate for the platform that
Speaker 3: you're telling it in. Because there's something that's going to
Speaker 3: be really great for the Billboarding Times Square that's not
Speaker 3: going to work on Twitter, or there's something that's going
Speaker 3: to be really great on TikTok that is not going
Speaker 3: to work on TV, you know. So it's like that
Speaker 3: is actually where the mastery of marketing then plays, because
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, let me figure out what part of
Speaker 3: the story works on what platform and then hit them
Speaker 3: all at the same time like lasers, you know. And
Speaker 3: that's how you get a complete and total picture where
Speaker 3: you can shift the brand narrative where you can make
Speaker 3: somebody go to them one on Billboard charts when they
Speaker 3: have no talent. Sure, I'm not speaking about.
Speaker 1: Anybody, listen, Listen. I was in New York City working
Speaker 1: in the pop world when you were there. So I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna say marketing plays a big, big role, big,
Speaker 1: big big. I want to talk to you about The
Speaker 1: Urgent Life. I want to talk to you about the
Speaker 1: Urgent Life because I want to you know, I know
Speaker 1: a little bit about why you wrote this book, but
Speaker 1: I want I want to hear it from you because
Speaker 1: I think it's important to share with our listeners, because
Speaker 1: I really love the title. Like I said, I'm a
Speaker 1: title nerd, but I want you to speak to it
Speaker 1: a little bit because I think it's super important.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you well. I've been asked to write
Speaker 3: a book for some time because I think after like
Speaker 3: I got my third C suite job, people were like, wait,
Speaker 3: hold on, does she have like that? Can't just be
Speaker 3: lust but have something so, you know, I was pitched
Speaker 3: all of the books like I should write the you know,
Speaker 3: the Corner Suite for Dummies, you know, girl boss in
Speaker 3: the C suite, like, you know, all these time to
Speaker 3: think that. I was like, you know what I could
Speaker 3: do that maybe one day I will write the book.
Speaker 3: But it felt like, look, you don't become fierce or
Speaker 3: badass or like have the kind of grit that it
Speaker 3: requires to get to these offices without having gone through
Speaker 3: some shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, without taking the buttered roll.
Speaker 3: Oh, without taking the buttered roll, you know. And I
Speaker 3: felt like a lot of times, leaders, especially in the
Speaker 3: corporate world, hide their personal stories behind these walls because
Speaker 3: they have to appear perfect. You know, you have to
Speaker 3: appear like, oh, nothing is ever wrong. I never in doubt.
Speaker 3: There's never a moment where I cry or forget what
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say or have a bad day. Like I'm
Speaker 3: always the perfect leader. My teams are going to follow
Speaker 3: me to the end, you know. And I'm just like,
Speaker 3: but that actually is not how human beings behave. And oh,
Speaker 3: by the way, everybody's lying. Sure. So I thought better
Speaker 3: to write my memoir because I was like, you want
Speaker 3: to get to the corner office. Well, first of all,
Speaker 3: you have to face the demons that are in your life.
Speaker 3: You also have to think about the ways in which
Speaker 3: you are actually not the same person that you were,
Speaker 3: and utilize all of those things to be a more
Speaker 3: empathetic leader, a leader that people trust, you know, one
Speaker 3: that people are like, Oh, she's been through something and
Speaker 3: I'm going through something. I will follow her. I will
Speaker 3: listen to her. She understands, you know. And so my
Speaker 3: book The Urgent Life was really based on my traumas,
Speaker 3: you know, the loss in my life, the ways in
Speaker 3: which sometimes life has just shit on me. Ye, you know,
Speaker 3: my need to live a really big life because my
Speaker 3: husband passed away from cancer ten years ago, almost eleven.
Speaker 3: Now just at the height of like, you know, I
Speaker 3: was really starting to break through the ceiling, you know, crash.
Speaker 2: And you had a young daughter at the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my daughter was four, and it was just like
Speaker 3: one of those things where you're just like, oh my God,
Speaker 3: like how okay? You know, I had put Beyonce on
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl halftime stage that year, and my career
Speaker 3: was just Pa Pa pal sing it, you know. And
Speaker 3: it's like, my daughter's four and we're you know, living
Speaker 3: in Manhattan.
Speaker 2: We're living our life. How does this happen?
Speaker 3: You've got we got decades to go. And then he's
Speaker 3: diagnosed with Burkett's lymphoma in May of twenty thirteen, which
Speaker 3: is a blood cancer, and six months later he was dead.
Speaker 3: And I it was just I don't even know how
Speaker 3: to describe like it was just it was earth shattering.
Speaker 3: It was devastating. It was all of the things, like
Speaker 3: all the fear and hurt, and like I was mad
Speaker 3: at God. My call was kissed, you know, and like,
Speaker 3: what did you do this? Anyway?
Speaker 1: He just fell into a crack in the earth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like actually, you know, like actually I always say like
Speaker 1: when those things happen, it's like if you had a
Speaker 1: visual it's like you're standing there and you're happy, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the entire earth cracks beneath
Speaker 1: you and you fall and you're like, write it.
Speaker 2: That's it, that's it.
Speaker 3: And it's like this black hole and you're like, how
Speaker 3: the how do I get out of here? You know?
Speaker 3: And it's why I do live an urgent life now,
Speaker 3: because I'm like, it's not really about like speed and time.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to like raise the clock. That's really
Speaker 3: not what I want to do is live like the
Speaker 3: fullest life that I can. And that's what the urgency
Speaker 3: is about, because like, you don't know when we're going
Speaker 3: to go, And I don't think that that's ay or
Speaker 3: a sad thing to say. I just think because it's
Speaker 3: very inspirational because I'm like, Earl, look, when it's my
Speaker 3: time to go, you will know that I've been here.
Speaker 3: You will know, you will feel it, and you'll be like, damn,
Speaker 3: that's a good one lost, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Because I'm living I'm living the biggest life that I
Speaker 3: can and I refuse for anyone to tell me, oh,
Speaker 3: you know what do it on the next one? Oh,
Speaker 3: wait and do it later. Oh no, I don't think
Speaker 3: that's right for you. Who are you talking to woo me? No,
Speaker 3: you can't be talking to me like this is my life. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is my life. And so that's why it's like
Speaker 3: when people try to deny me.
Speaker 1: Anything, You're like, I'm sorry, no.
Speaker 3: No, okay, I'm living my own urgent life. You should
Speaker 3: live yours, and you're probably happier if you do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love it because the urgent life, like
Speaker 1: it is such a profound statement, and it is something
Speaker 1: that I don't think. I know, I don't live like
Speaker 1: that enough. I know it here that we need to
Speaker 1: do it. And I would say my parents are eighty
Speaker 1: three and eighty seven. They live every day like it is,
Speaker 1: and they have always. They have always They're like, we
Speaker 1: could get hit by a bus tomorrow. We need to
Speaker 1: do this. And I'm like, hey, you're gonna spend every
Speaker 1: dollar you have, Like, oh my god. It's like there's
Speaker 1: some gray area here, right, there's some middle ground here.
Speaker 1: But I love it, and I think and I think
Speaker 1: you're coming from this place of actual experience and why,
Speaker 1: And I think it's a really good thing for us
Speaker 1: to learn because you've been through it. You have been
Speaker 1: through it, and I think we've all been through it
Speaker 1: in different ways. But I think showing vulnerability as a
Speaker 1: major player in any field, as a known boss badass,
Speaker 1: there is this expectation that I'm not sure people put
Speaker 1: on us, that we put on ourselves. Is I'm good,
Speaker 1: We're good, I'm good, I'm fine, We're good. What do
Speaker 1: you mean I'm not I'm I'm good.
Speaker 2: Of course I'm.
Speaker 1: Good, And you're basically like, it's cool to not be good,
Speaker 1: and it's cool to like, you know, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's actually better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because human The thing is.
Speaker 3: That I am a better leader because I'm a widow.
Speaker 3: I'm a better leader because I'm a single mom. I'm
Speaker 3: a better leader because I have experienced, you know, someone
Speaker 3: really close to me who died by suicide. I'm a
Speaker 3: better leader because I have lost a child. Like I'm
Speaker 3: a better leader because of so many things in my
Speaker 3: life that have rocked me. And I've been able to
Speaker 3: figure out, Okay, like, what's the ways in which I
Speaker 3: come back to life? You know, so many times, time
Speaker 3: after time after time, And so I have empathy for
Speaker 3: the world, and I have empathy for people and I
Speaker 3: will meet somebody and say, oh my god, like you know,
Speaker 3: whatever you're going through, like okay, you take your time,
Speaker 3: you do what you need to do, or maybe I
Speaker 3: can help in some way, or the fact that, yes,
Speaker 3: I have been the other in a room, I have
Speaker 3: been the child of the immigrant where people are not
Speaker 3: giving them the credit they deserve. You know. It's like,
Speaker 3: I've been all of those things, and so I think
Speaker 3: I'm just a better human for having gone through all
Speaker 3: of these things.
Speaker 1: And that's what you take from it, because you have
Speaker 1: to write. It's really hard to find that silver lining
Speaker 1: sometimes because you're like, fuck off, why did this hop been?
Speaker 2: Like what?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes? And sometimes there are those days too, yeah,
Speaker 3: of course you know what.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, no, literally every better and you're just
Speaker 1: like why today?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: But I do think that if we were all more
Speaker 3: honesty about the depths of our pain, the fear in
Speaker 3: our transitions, you know, joy and the triumph once you
Speaker 3: finally get to the thing, without you know, being like,
Speaker 3: oh you have to somehow fake humble, like what girl,
Speaker 3: when I reached the mountaintop, I'll be the first one
Speaker 3: who's up there, like.
Speaker 2: I'm right.
Speaker 3: Because I'm get in the valley. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: You know how hard it was to get up there?
Speaker 3: You know how climbing in heels? You know how hard
Speaker 3: it was?
Speaker 2: Wait to your six feet barefoot? Right? You're six feet
Speaker 2: for right? And do you still wear heels?
Speaker 3: I still wear four?
Speaker 2: That is so mean.
Speaker 1: See my real friends that are doll like you, they
Speaker 1: were maybe a kid meal around me just to be nice,
Speaker 1: and they duck, and they duck for me, they squat.
Speaker 3: I will there's not one way on God's green earth
Speaker 3: if you will catch me in a kid meal, okay,
Speaker 3: in the weight.
Speaker 1: So when I get to meet you, would hug you
Speaker 1: in person. You're not gonna like, just do this a little.
Speaker 3: Bit, just to no grandma. I'm gonna hug you to
Speaker 3: my navel.
Speaker 1: Okay right here, a fine fine, By the way, don't
Speaker 1: kid yourself. I'm gonna text you pictures of me and
Speaker 1: some of the models that I've worked with my career
Speaker 1: where I literally come up to their hip. Their leg
Speaker 1: is like to my actually like their their leg actually
Speaker 1: ends at my head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, true story, true story.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: And so you are so next level and I don't
Speaker 1: even know I know that you're probably gonna say you
Speaker 1: have so much you want to do, so much left
Speaker 1: to do, but I do. I am curious about what
Speaker 1: is like now and what is like the next thing,
Speaker 1: if there is a next thing, because I know you're
Speaker 1: not taking a beat. I know there's no way you're
Speaker 1: taking a beat, not in this urgent life.
Speaker 3: Hell no, no, not in this urgent life.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: But that's the thing is that I've been so I
Speaker 3: am really excited about every evolution that I have. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm always so like I anticipated with a lot of joy.
Speaker 3: And when I left Netflix, I was a global CMO.
Speaker 3: To write my book, I thought I was going to
Speaker 3: like take a little sabbatical, you know, I publish my
Speaker 3: book and then go back. And it was really scary
Speaker 3: to be like, oh shit, like I don't think I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't think I want to go back, you know,
Speaker 3: And my ego was playing tricks on me, you know,
Speaker 3: the like, oh, well but now I don't have this
Speaker 3: big company behind me. Who the hell am I? You know,
Speaker 3: like I walk into you and people like, oh that's
Speaker 3: you know, that's the CMO of I don't have that.
Speaker 3: So I was fighting that the identity shift.
Speaker 1: Do I need that title. Do I need that title
Speaker 1: to exist?
Speaker 3: Yes, in order to validate who I am. And I
Speaker 3: know that. You know, maybe a lot of people would say,
Speaker 3: but oh my god, but you're so unapologetic, you're so fearless,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yeah, but I still got an ego. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I still I still feel the pain of like identity
Speaker 3: shift when something in your life goes away and therefore
Speaker 3: you're no longer this person that you told the whole
Speaker 3: world you were. I mean, yeah, there were days when
Speaker 3: I literally sat in my bed and I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to go outside. I don't want to
Speaker 3: go to the party because people a going to ask
Speaker 3: me what are you doing now? And I'm like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: You know the worst question, by the way.
Speaker 3: I hate that question.
Speaker 2: I literally see.
Speaker 1: It At every event I go to, there's someone asking someone, so,
Speaker 1: what are you working on?
Speaker 2: What are you doing now?
Speaker 1: And it's that and behind it is that worry you good?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly like that.
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 1: I've been working for thirty fucking years, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Look, I'm fine, you know. I started to answer like
Speaker 3: all the you know, crazy things like I would say
Speaker 3: stuff like oh, I'm working on a on a space
Speaker 3: flight to March. And people would be like you are,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yes, bitch, I am.
Speaker 2: And that sound yeah, They're gonna go really.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, oh, I have an idea for you. No,
Speaker 3: you don't sit down after taking the time from my book,
Speaker 3: I you know, just sat back and really for the
Speaker 3: I think, for the first time in my life, for
Speaker 3: the first time in my career anyway, I was like,
Speaker 3: what do I actually want to do now, you know,
Speaker 3: not not necessarily like the linear climbing the ladder, but like,
Speaker 3: what do I actually want to do? And I had
Speaker 3: so many thoughts and so many ideas, and then opportunities
Speaker 3: popped up for me, you know, whether it was like
Speaker 3: just you know, speaking engagements that I started doing and
Speaker 3: being able to communicate to other people how I do
Speaker 3: this and how I did it, and you know the
Speaker 3: motivation of it all, of course, and then I decided that,
Speaker 3: you know what, I think, I definitely want to work
Speaker 3: for myself. You know, I want to create my own company.
Speaker 3: I want to create my own business. Like I've put
Speaker 3: in so many years working for other people and building
Speaker 3: their companies. It's about time, you know that I did
Speaker 3: something for myself, and so I started exploring that, and
Speaker 3: then I got the uh to talk to the producers
Speaker 3: of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and I was like, bitch,
Speaker 3: what's out here? I come, you know, And it's it's
Speaker 3: just it's such a fascinating life because.
Speaker 2: Like you don't know what's coming around. No, you never know.
Speaker 3: But it's like why not take the opportunities, like why
Speaker 3: not jump into these you know, sometimes off the wall
Speaker 3: wacky ideas like you know, try it. You know who
Speaker 3: said I can't.
Speaker 1: I could do anything I want and you could also
Speaker 1: hold your own in that room.
Speaker 3: You know, you better believe it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, hey, look, this is a new opportunity,
Speaker 3: a new place for me, a new time in life.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm on like a third act or
Speaker 3: ten or ten exactly. But I'm very excited. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know that I can explain anymore that It's like,
Speaker 3: I am so excited about this time in life. You know.
Speaker 2: I think you take it that way.
Speaker 1: I think this is sort of, as you said, like
Speaker 1: new chapter in the book. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I think you come up in
Speaker 1: corporate there's an identity with that. It was at this
Speaker 1: you know, really major dinner over the summer with a
Speaker 1: ton of badass leaders and CEOs and a very dear
Speaker 1: friend of mine. For a really long time, she's built
Speaker 1: countless companies and now she just kind of starts them
Speaker 1: and like, you know, and she moves on and then
Speaker 1: she goes, you know, for the first time, I don't
Speaker 1: have a CEO title in front of my name.
Speaker 2: And I literally but it was it was by choice.
Speaker 2: But I said, and how is that?
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, some days it's creepy and awful and
Speaker 1: I don't know who I am. And some days there
Speaker 1: is a relief and an excitement because I've never been
Speaker 1: free from it, you know, And so I I and
Speaker 1: she's so successful, I mean, I mean in every way
Speaker 1: and happy. So I'm like, I think you need to
Speaker 1: get there, you know, to the I'm happy like this
Speaker 1: and you're not a title. And I think that's probably
Speaker 1: what you were experiencing. And I think as women, those
Speaker 1: titles can mean way more than they should, because over time,
Speaker 1: we were never you know, years ago, we weren't given
Speaker 1: those titles ever hardly ever.
Speaker 2: And now men want.
Speaker 1: To give us those titles so that they can like
Speaker 1: check boxes sometimes. Right, So so I think, sorry, and
Speaker 1: I really like men. I don't mean to bash men,
Speaker 1: but but it's fact. And I think, and I think
Speaker 1: for you, you've had your titles, you've done it, you've
Speaker 1: taken the buttered roll, you've you've done all the things,
Speaker 1: and I think, like this next chapter is very exciting.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm excited to see where it takes you.
Speaker 1: I don't worry about you for one second ever. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you. I'm really excited about all
Speaker 1: you're doing. And I can't wait to watch you keep
Speaker 1: going out. And I'm going to start living a more
Speaker 1: urgent life, effective, immediately.
Speaker 3: Effective, immediately. Today's the day.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 1: Today is the day, babe, day, that's the name of
Speaker 1: your next something. Today is the day. I'm here, I'm
Speaker 1: calling it, I'm writing it, and today is the day
Speaker 1: because people need to repurpose that.
Speaker 3: Amen. I am okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Boz for coming on the
Speaker 1: podcast today. She is so beyond I literally could have
Speaker 1: talked to her or for hours. I cannot believe the
Speaker 1: life she's lived. I cannot believe the grief she's lived
Speaker 1: through and smiling bigger than I've probably seen anyone on
Speaker 1: my pod.
Speaker 2: I am taking from that.
Speaker 1: I am definitely taking from that, and I think to
Speaker 1: write a book called the Urgent Life and How to
Speaker 1: Live It, I think is something that we should all
Speaker 1: take along with her journey of you know, going from
Speaker 1: literally being hungry to taking a buttered roll from a nice,
Speaker 1: kind neighbor to getting the dream job from Spike Lee
Speaker 1: because she had the courage to actually, you know, ask
Speaker 1: to read a script. I mean, it's really an unbelievable story.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for listening to
Speaker 1: Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to
Speaker 1: the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the iHeart app, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. You don't miss a single
Speaker 1: episode fifth season, and be sure to follow me on
Speaker 1: Instagram at at rachel Zo and the show on at
Speaker 1: Climbing in Heels pod for the latest episodes and updates.
Speaker 2: I sing too, Mu