Speaker 1: Hello, Colorado. The States so nice. We're playing there twice,
Speaker 1: two days in a row. Chuck, we added a second
Speaker 1: show to our Gothic Theater tour. That's right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be there June seventh and June now sold out, but
Speaker 1: one of those weird cases where you go see the
Speaker 1: first show you were actually late buying tickets. Right. We're
Speaker 1: also going to be in Boston April four, d C
Speaker 1: April five. We're gonna be in St. Louis on May,
Speaker 1: in Cleveland one, and then of course we're gonna wrap
Speaker 1: this summer up on June at the Gothic Theater in Colorado.
Speaker 1: So go to s Y s K live dot com
Speaker 1: for all of your information and ticket needs. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, There's guest producer Noel all of Nature, Wild
Speaker 1: and Free. This is where you long to be. Stuff
Speaker 1: you should know. So let's go ahead and admit that
Speaker 1: we just did a rare retake of like the first
Speaker 1: four minutes of the show. Yeah, and I still reused
Speaker 1: the Madonna lyric joke. That's fine, but we have to
Speaker 1: recreate the rest of the previous four minutes. No, I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I think we should just kind of
Speaker 1: let it flow. I was just I was saying to myself,
Speaker 1: By God, that Madonna jokes getting in there. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: maybe just a quick recap. Noel's dressed up and looks great.
Speaker 1: He's it's because he's a snappy dresser. Uh. We mispronounced
Speaker 1: words in the UK and got laughed at. And now
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Framing Him heart Study. That's right,
Speaker 1: which we h. I don't know what podcast it was on,
Speaker 1: but years ago we called it the Farmington hard Study. Um,
Speaker 1: every time we said it, we said Farmington's did we really? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't remember that. No, I mean that definitely sounds
Speaker 1: like us, but I don't remember it. Yeah. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why I made that joke when you first came in
Speaker 1: about the Farmington Heart Study. Okay, yeah, we said it
Speaker 1: was years ago. It was one of our earlier couple
Speaker 1: of years and we said the Farmingtons Hearts Study probably
Speaker 1: twelve times. Yeah. Back in the day, the standards used
Speaker 1: to be its head lower. Yeah, because we were low
Speaker 1: hanging Fruit podcast. It was us Zyberglass was Ricky Gervais
Speaker 1: and Jesse Thorn, and then Adam Curry was out there
Speaker 1: somewhere and probably Adam Corolla. Sure, yeah no, but no
Speaker 1: one else we had. There were eight podcasts. That was it.
Speaker 1: That was all you had to choose from, So you
Speaker 1: better like at least one of them. Do you know
Speaker 1: how many there are? Now? I just saw today? Uh no,
Speaker 1: do you like you have an actual number? Well, I
Speaker 1: mean it's a it's an even number, so it's probably
Speaker 1: not exact. But the latest hot pod newsletter said that
Speaker 1: there are roughly three podcasts. Oh my god, that's nuts.
Speaker 1: I know, man alive. That's pretty impressive, and probably only
Speaker 1: like five of those are good. Well, we we went
Speaker 1: from that was mean, we went from eight to three
Speaker 1: fifty thousand and how many years? Ten? We're still hanging strong,
Speaker 1: we are. That's great. That's what happens when you say
Speaker 1: things like Farmington ten twelve times. He's long gone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he pronounced everything perfectly like guys washed up now yea,
Speaker 1: So the reason we're talking about framing him, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be tough to say
Speaker 1: it the same way every time, but it's framing Ham
Speaker 1: is the city of Massachusetts. I don't get the Framingham
Speaker 1: as opposed to framing him Yeah, ok, yeah, the h
Speaker 1: is a hard age or soft aged like, Whereas if
Speaker 1: this were in Scotland they would just say you're right,
Speaker 1: which is again why we were laughed at Manchester that
Speaker 1: it's Germany sorry, right, which is landlocked. So again we're
Speaker 1: talking about Framingham, Massachusetts, a very small town these days.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and seventeen, I think the census, well
Speaker 1: that the population estimate was something like seventy residents, not
Speaker 1: a not a huge town. I think that qualifies as
Speaker 1: a small, dinky town. Still. Yeah, but it's a suburb
Speaker 1: of Boston, which is a huge metropolis. Sure it is, um,
Speaker 1: but it is aside from being a suburb of Boston,
Speaker 1: it is in its own right, uh, an internationally renowned
Speaker 1: tiny town. Not because it's like a place where the
Speaker 1: circus used to hang out during the winter, or because um,
Speaker 1: they have some amazing kind of fudge. Right, Farmingham, Massachusetts
Speaker 1: is on the map because that town back in the day,
Speaker 1: actually two times over that town. Just I did that
Speaker 1: they were going to present themselves as as test subjects,
Speaker 1: study participants, for some of the most important studies ever
Speaker 1: carried out in the history of medicine. Yeah. What one
Speaker 1: of the largest and certainly most influential longitudinal studies ever
Speaker 1: performed in medicine. Yeah, it's called the Farming hum Or
Speaker 1: farming Ham Heart Study, the Framingham Oh my god, was
Speaker 1: that an accident? Yes, Oh boy, The Framing hum Heart Study. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which you know, we've we've had challenges, as has the
Speaker 1: medical community in research community throughout study history, of being
Speaker 1: frustrated with like bad studies and poor sample sizes. This
Speaker 1: one is really set the standard. Yeah, it's it's the
Speaker 1: gold standard for anything that has anything to do is
Speaker 1: studying cardiovascular disease. And as we'll see it basically is
Speaker 1: everything we you and I, just Joe Schmo walking around
Speaker 1: on the street know about cardiovascular disease basically came out
Speaker 1: of this study. Um. And even before that, there was
Speaker 1: another study that the town participated in that helped lick tuberculosis,
Speaker 1: which was which was appropriate because you know, framing framing him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got it right. Is in Massachusetts, which is part
Speaker 1: of New England, which was part of the vampire panic area, which,
Speaker 1: as you remember, was the result of tuberculosis. So it's
Speaker 1: it was appropriate that that little town contributed to humanity
Speaker 1: in that way as well. Yes, so should we hop
Speaker 1: in the way back machine? Oh yes, all right, let's
Speaker 1: set the dial. Let's load up the flux capacitor with
Speaker 1: Miller heavy beer and banana peals. Miller heavy. Yeah that's
Speaker 1: what he used, nice, I think so, yeah, okay, that's
Speaker 1: that's at the end with the more modern version right
Speaker 1: right of the Dolorean. Yeah. I think he used some
Speaker 1: sort of plasma waist incenterator. Yeah. Uh so, let's let's
Speaker 1: set the dials for um, the World War two era.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna be super specific here, No, sometimes we
Speaker 1: rolled the dice in the way back machine. Let's see
Speaker 1: what happened. Just say, spit us out anytime in the
Speaker 1: nineteen forties, not in Europe or the South Pacific, that's right.
Speaker 1: So in the nineteen UM here was a scene in
Speaker 1: the USA, and I guess all over the world is
Speaker 1: we did not know a lot about and all this
Speaker 1: stuff seems so second nature now and like duh about
Speaker 1: heart disease, But we didn't know a lot about heart
Speaker 1: disease back then, and it was sort of just accepted
Speaker 1: that once you reach a certain age, like, yeah, your
Speaker 1: heart just may take you out. Nothing we can do
Speaker 1: about it. Might as well not research it. And there's
Speaker 1: certainly no preventative medicines for your to ensure that health. No,
Speaker 1: certainly not like they could try to treat it or whatever.
Speaker 1: But most of the time, once you came down with UM,
Speaker 1: one of the cardiovascular diseases, you UM, you were a goner.
Speaker 1: YEA of us deaths we're due to CBD, right, And
Speaker 1: so there was a confounding factor that led to this
Speaker 1: huge increase. There are actually two of them. One is
Speaker 1: as far as percentages go. The cardiovascular disease deaths lurched
Speaker 1: forward in the mid early mid twentieth century because what
Speaker 1: used to be the big killers, which were infectious diseases
Speaker 1: which we now consider highly treatable. They used to kill everybody, right,
Speaker 1: And as we started to treat them thanks to the
Speaker 1: discovery and use of penicillin and antibiotics, those things fell
Speaker 1: into the background and and by by extend mention or
Speaker 1: by proxy, cardiovascular disease was basically bear naked out there
Speaker 1: statistics wise. Suddenly something that was just kind of like
Speaker 1: a secondary problem was now that the leading cause of
Speaker 1: death in the United States and in the West. I believe, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I guess people were living routinely, living into their
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties, maybe for the first time, I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they were saying, my god, I'm so glad I
Speaker 1: get these extra couple of decades of eating raw steak
Speaker 1: and smoking cigarettes at the dinner table. Grass. That is
Speaker 1: so nasty. It's a it's a true story, though. I
Speaker 1: saw my grandpa do it with my own eyes, smoke
Speaker 1: at the table. Now. Actually, my grandpa was one of
Speaker 1: the He went the other way. He was like like
Speaker 1: subscriber number three to Prevention magazine and yeah, into like
Speaker 1: coffee animas and all sorts of weird st He was
Speaker 1: big time healthy guy. Is that what led your dad
Speaker 1: to become the herbal Elviots? I think that that had
Speaker 1: some had to have had something to do with it,
Speaker 1: for sure. Luckily my dad didn't carry on the family
Speaker 1: tradition of coffee animos down to me. So um alright,
Speaker 1: So by of death or cardiovascular everyone's dying now from
Speaker 1: their heart because they're living longer because they're not dying
Speaker 1: of TV and their thirties and forties and then the
Speaker 1: second big thing that happened that you teased was President Roosevelt.
Speaker 1: Uh started to get really he got cardiovascular disease. He
Speaker 1: started to get really high blood pressure. Uh. This was
Speaker 1: compounded by UM. Now we understand that stress and anxiety
Speaker 1: can compound these things, and he certainly had no shortage
Speaker 1: of that UM as president. And you know Winston Churchill
Speaker 1: of all people, when he says he seems to be
Speaker 1: a very tired man. If Winston Churchill was saying that,
Speaker 1: then you're in trouble. Yeah, because he wasn't the picture
Speaker 1: of health. No, he certainly wasn't. But apparently f D
Speaker 1: made him look like he was fresh as a daisy.
Speaker 1: So FDR had high blood pressure when he went into
Speaker 1: the White House to begin with. But by the time
Speaker 1: rolls around right after the Yalta UM conference where they
Speaker 1: divided Europe up between what Great Britain, the United States
Speaker 1: in UM, Russia the Soviet Union, right. Um. He died
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after that, at age sixty three.
Speaker 1: He had a stroke from hypertension, which is another word
Speaker 1: for high blood pressure. And boy, oh boy, did he
Speaker 1: have high blood pressure like off the charts. Chuck, Yeah,
Speaker 1: three hundred, when when he died he had three hundred
Speaker 1: over one. One more time, three hundred over one. So
Speaker 1: I went and look that up. I'm like, even without
Speaker 1: looking it up, I know that's high, but how high
Speaker 1: is it? So? Ideal is between ninety over sixty and
Speaker 1: one over eighty. That's how deal blood pressure. Anything over
Speaker 1: one eighty over one twenty is what's called a hypertensive crisis.
Speaker 1: And the chart tells you to go to your doctor
Speaker 1: immediately for that if you have anything over one eight over.
Speaker 1: FDR had three over one. Yeah, and I mean his
Speaker 1: doctor said, I predict he's a very sick man. I
Speaker 1: predicted will be dead within a few months. And he
Speaker 1: was running the money, right Churchill's doctor. Yeah, FDR Zone
Speaker 1: doctor was like, here, take this digitalis You'll love that.
Speaker 1: Churchill's guy, Yeah, okay, yeah. At the y'all take conference.
Speaker 1: I guess he just travels with I would think, so,
Speaker 1: I thought, I mean, I would imagine all those guys
Speaker 1: would travel with their doctors, you know, just just for fun,
Speaker 1: like what kind of pills you got today? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: again I'm watching The Crown now. I talked about that
Speaker 1: in the TV h well, in the episode but when
Speaker 1: we talked about it and John listcal As Winston, Churchill
Speaker 1: is grow great. What he's awesome? When he and FDR
Speaker 1: like half two part ways after the y'all to conference,
Speaker 1: does he punch FDR in the face and say O,
Speaker 1: FDR hasn't actually he hasn't been in it. Okay, well
Speaker 1: look for that scene coming up. Yeah, but it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Churchill's all over the place. He had the Gary Oldman
Speaker 1: movie and then there were dual Churchill movies. Brian Cox
Speaker 1: was on another one. Oh, he's in it's quality. He's great,
Speaker 1: although his Hannibal lecture was it was fine until Anthony
Speaker 1: Hopkins got his hands on that role. Yeah. The rare
Speaker 1: case where the second actor totally owns the role usually
Speaker 1: like the first actor. Will you know, just probably by
Speaker 1: the fact that the first Although I liked Um, What's
Speaker 1: the to Live In Diane l A's guy's name who
Speaker 1: was the lead guy in Manhunter? William Peterson. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: liked William Peterson's character. That's a great movie more than
Speaker 1: Um Edward Norton's version. Oh, in Red Dragon, because Red
Speaker 1: Dragon and Manhunter they're based on the same book. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. Yeah, yeah, you're really right. William
Speaker 1: Peterson a way better than Edward Norton in that role,
Speaker 1: but Jodie Foster better than all of them, is closed, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: all of them put together. Man. I just watched the
Speaker 1: end of that again the other day, and oh, you're
Speaker 1: gonna appreciate this. Uh. Emily was in the other room, um,
Speaker 1: in the bathroom or something, I can't remember, and she
Speaker 1: didn't know what. I turned it on and I passed
Speaker 1: it right at the moment of the Penis Tuck Buffalo
Speaker 1: Bill when he had his arms out in the Jesus
Speaker 1: Christ post and Emily came in and just got in
Speaker 1: bed and looked up and was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what a great movie that was. Had everything, the perfect
Speaker 1: race Rain did everything, had Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins, and
Speaker 1: a Penis Tuck scene. We should probably take a break,
Speaker 1: all right, We're off the rails here, are you ready? Yes?
Speaker 1: Break starting now? Okay, Chuck. So we were talking about
Speaker 1: Penis tux right. FDR famously did that at the Yalta conference.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so he you know the reason the
Speaker 1: reason FDR's death from hypertension really factors into the stories
Speaker 1: because it was extremely public, okay, And what FDR basically
Speaker 1: did without using these last words, he basically said he
Speaker 1: pointed at at modern medicine and said, I beseech you,
Speaker 1: and then keeled over right, So modern medicine was like,
Speaker 1: who us, we don't know what we're doing when it
Speaker 1: comes to cardiovascular disease ease. And shortly thereafter, the framing
Speaker 1: him heart study was born. No, you can almost coming.
Speaker 1: The framing of heart study was born because Harry Truman
Speaker 1: signed the National Heart Act, which is probably the thing
Speaker 1: that he's most famous for. Its president. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: included and that included five thousand dollars in the form
Speaker 1: of a grant for this study for twenty years to
Speaker 1: cover twenty years for the study. And um, I think
Speaker 1: initially Public Health service physician Uh Gilson or Gilkin Metters
Speaker 1: uh said, it sounds like you messed that up, but
Speaker 1: you didn't. I think you hit it right on the head.
Speaker 1: Gilson Metters. It matters sounds like a weird you think
Speaker 1: it'd be meadows or something. It sounds like you're drunk
Speaker 1: and saying meadows. Uh. And this was the original quote,
Speaker 1: which is actually a pretty good mission statement for the study.
Speaker 1: Their mission was to study the express and of coronary
Speaker 1: artery disease and a normal or unselected population, and to
Speaker 1: determine the factors predisposing to the development of the disease
Speaker 1: through clinical and laboratory examined long term follow up. So
Speaker 1: there you have it. Not bad, it's got a clinical ring,
Speaker 1: it's got a it's concise. You can dance to it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So this this framing Him heart study was a heart
Speaker 1: study before it was set in framing him. And they
Speaker 1: went to framing him for a number of reasons. One
Speaker 1: they said, well, this is a pretty pretty standard UM
Speaker 1: middle America, middle class UM community, at least of the
Speaker 1: kind that we pay attention to in this day and age, right,
Speaker 1: meaning it was almost entirely white people, which will see
Speaker 1: as a huge criticism of this study that UM the
Speaker 1: study directors over time have tried to work on. But um,
Speaker 1: they said, aside from the the the complete and almost
Speaker 1: complete and utter of UM diversity. Yes, in this study,
Speaker 1: it's a pretty good slice of America. It's a small town,
Speaker 1: most of the people their middle income. It's it's got
Speaker 1: a big enough population. At the time, this is the
Speaker 1: nineteen forties or something like twenty eight thousand people that
Speaker 1: we could get a pretty decent, like random sample of
Speaker 1: the population going. But the town itself is small enough.
Speaker 1: There's only like two hospitals and in time there would
Speaker 1: only be one hospital that we can actually easily keep
Speaker 1: track of the people in this town. And it's not
Speaker 1: too far from Boston University, which would win the contrast
Speaker 1: to UM carrying out the study on behalf of the
Speaker 1: National Heart Institute. Well, yeah, and they had also, like
Speaker 1: you said, earlier, proven that their game for this kind
Speaker 1: of thing by participating in that uh to what was
Speaker 1: called tuberculosis how down or something. Ye had a name.
Speaker 1: It did have a name. It was called the Framing
Speaker 1: Him Tuberculosis Demonstration. There would be like watch this, no,
Speaker 1: but it could be on a Saturday night. It was
Speaker 1: the hold Down. So that, yeah, the whole town had
Speaker 1: was not the whole town, but the town had gotten
Speaker 1: behind being UM test subjects or study participants for a
Speaker 1: whole other study about thirty years before the Heart study began.
Speaker 1: So they were already kind of like there. Their healthcare
Speaker 1: providers were already like aware that this stuff was going on.
Speaker 1: And at the time, apparently healthcare providers like your general practitioner.
Speaker 1: That was like the end all be all of your health.
Speaker 1: That person was meant to know everything about you and
Speaker 1: everything about disease and how to treat you. And that
Speaker 1: was that. There weren't any longitudinal studies, There wasn't any
Speaker 1: preventative medicine, There wasn't any national hard institute, there was
Speaker 1: nothing like that. It all came down to your general practitioner.
Speaker 1: So it was really important that the general practitioners and
Speaker 1: the healthcare providers in the town of Framing Them were
Speaker 1: on board this kind of thing, because they could very
Speaker 1: easily have seen this as encroaching on their turf, but
Speaker 1: they didn't. And I think the Framing Him study directors
Speaker 1: and the people who carried this actual study out deferred
Speaker 1: to the general practitioners in the town as far as
Speaker 1: like giving advice from the findings and and keeping up
Speaker 1: with the the like outside medical findings or even the
Speaker 1: stuff they were finding from the study. They didn't directly
Speaker 1: give it to the study participants. They gave it to
Speaker 1: their doctors, and then the doctors would tell the study
Speaker 1: parts participants, so they were kept in the loop. So
Speaker 1: there was a there was a a symbiotic relationship that
Speaker 1: was forged. Yeah. I thought that was interesting that they
Speaker 1: just kept the research like they weren't there to offer
Speaker 1: medical advice. They were literally just collecting research. But I
Speaker 1: do wonder if some of the times they would say, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: gp of Mr Donaldson, you really need to get him
Speaker 1: in like next week. Yeah, like really yeah, like he
Speaker 1: It's kind of like I guess how Churchill's doctor saw Roosevelt, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I know we're not supposed to give advice, but my
Speaker 1: advice to you is to call this guy up and say,
Speaker 1: maybe you should come in a little earlier than next spring, right,
Speaker 1: or go up your malpractice insurance. So we did say
Speaker 1: that it wasn't super ethnically diverse, which um didn't phase
Speaker 1: them too much at the time, And it really hit
Speaker 1: home to me just how like just how white probably
Speaker 1: every major study had been up until this point without
Speaker 1: even like thinking it was a problem, which is being like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's a great study. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't include any black people, and they
Speaker 1: just it probably just didn't even occur to them at
Speaker 1: the time. I don't know if it didn't occur to him.
Speaker 1: I I think that it was mostly that's who their
Speaker 1: clientele was. I think that that's probably who was being
Speaker 1: studied because that's what America catered to at the time,
Speaker 1: or who America catered to, I should say at the time.
Speaker 1: I don't know that that much has changed these days, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: but I think it was vastly more pronounced back then.
Speaker 1: Well I think they I think they're way more inclusive
Speaker 1: now and and probably have to be to get research
Speaker 1: grants these days. I would think, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. No, I'm saying America as a whole being
Speaker 1: like catering to Yeah, hear you, But that did change
Speaker 1: in and framing him after World War Two. Apparently there
Speaker 1: was an influx of a more diverse population after the
Speaker 1: war at least, right, and I think by the Good
Speaker 1: Lord was that the nineties when they added the new cohort.
Speaker 1: Well we'll get to the cohorts, Okay, well, anyway, sure
Speaker 1: we'll spoiler alert. They added they made the study population
Speaker 1: more diverse. One thing that is in the credit of
Speaker 1: the study designers is that they included women at a
Speaker 1: about which was totally unheard of it's in any kind
Speaker 1: of medical study at the time. Because again, not only
Speaker 1: did they cater to almost exclusively white people in America
Speaker 1: at the time. They catered almost exclusively to white men
Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, and I think also women. I
Speaker 1: think heart disease probably still has a stigma of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: men have heart disease, uh more than women do, right, Like,
Speaker 1: what are you a trucker lady? How do you have
Speaker 1: heart disease? Go back, go back home, get out of
Speaker 1: my doctor's office. Yeah, you dummy. Yeah, which is not
Speaker 1: the case, right, No. But the weird thing is is
Speaker 1: what they found from the study. Just overall, they found
Speaker 1: that the stuff that they've come up with, which we'll
Speaker 1: talk about in a second, is really good at predicting
Speaker 1: things for like white guys, for cardio vascular disease for
Speaker 1: white guys. But even though women were very um clearly
Speaker 1: represented in the study, they've actually found that the same
Speaker 1: predictors don't work for women. So it's kind of led
Speaker 1: to a separate study of women and how they suffer
Speaker 1: from cardiovascular disease, because they definitely do, it's just under
Speaker 1: different circumstances it appears than men. Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the beginning of the study, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So they recruited people between the ages of thirty and
Speaker 1: fifty nine initially because that is the window where you
Speaker 1: might develop c D d UM and they they thought
Speaker 1: by recruiting people in this range, they would also get
Speaker 1: a certain amount of people that are already have this
Speaker 1: uh appearing like these symptoms appearing right. They didn't though.
Speaker 1: Actually it turned out that they had to actually go
Speaker 1: recruit people who had cardiovascular disease already and put them
Speaker 1: into this study themselves, I think, because people probably that
Speaker 1: maybe we're on that track, don't volunteer for studies like this. Well.
Speaker 1: They also it wasn't a very random sample, especial at
Speaker 1: first because they initially got participants through um word of
Speaker 1: mouth at like civic groups and clubs. So so the
Speaker 1: presence of a social network or a certain type of
Speaker 1: social network, we just kind of does away with randomness
Speaker 1: right out of the gate. And they ended up recruiting
Speaker 1: other people outside of like these groups and civic civic
Speaker 1: clubs and all that, who initially formed a large part
Speaker 1: of the study. UM cohort to make it a little
Speaker 1: more random, and I guess they were successful because it
Speaker 1: seems like the idea of it being not very random
Speaker 1: or not very representative sample of the whole um isn't
Speaker 1: really discussed any longer. So I guess they took care
Speaker 1: of it by the inclusion of the additional I think
Speaker 1: like seven people. Yeah, so they the idea was that
Speaker 1: you would come in every two years to give um
Speaker 1: your medical history updated, to get updated, to have your physical,
Speaker 1: to get you all your labs done. And they thought
Speaker 1: at the time like, there's probably they were smart enough
Speaker 1: to know that there's probably not one thing this causing CBD.
Speaker 1: So collecting all this history from all these people over time,
Speaker 1: and initially it was going to be twenty years, but
Speaker 1: as you will learn, it's still going on today, which
Speaker 1: is amazing. Um, they can really get a robust sampling
Speaker 1: of people and time from kind of all walks of
Speaker 1: life once they started being more inclusive. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: can watch the disease develop or not develop. And since
Speaker 1: they do like a really they did a phenomenal baseline
Speaker 1: exam and Chuck, actually, I saw and the very original
Speaker 1: inception or conception of the study was that they were
Speaker 1: going to do a baseline exam and then a second
Speaker 1: follow up three to five years later and that was it.
Speaker 1: But luckily they had the foresight to be like, no, no no, no,
Speaker 1: let's keep this thing going and keep a rolling. Baby,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling hot, right. So they were by doing this
Speaker 1: baseline exam and saying, you know, do you smoke, how
Speaker 1: much read meet you? How much do you drink? How
Speaker 1: much exercise do you get? How often do you go parasailing? Like? Um,
Speaker 1: like how many kids do you have? What were your
Speaker 1: parents medical histories? Like? By getting this really great baseline exam,
Speaker 1: they had an idea of all the different factors that
Speaker 1: could come into play when it comes to cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 1: And then with these follow up exams every two years,
Speaker 1: they would find people as the as they got the
Speaker 1: disease or didn't get the disease, and then they could
Speaker 1: go back and look and say, well, this person has
Speaker 1: cardiovascular disease and they smoke and they have diabetes, and uh,
Speaker 1: their parents had a stroke. They're dead at a stroke
Speaker 1: and they just had a stroke. So they started to
Speaker 1: see from all of this data, it was basically like
Speaker 1: you know how data, big data is just enormous right now.
Speaker 1: That's basically what the Heart Institute did in Boston University
Speaker 1: just went and set up camp in this town and
Speaker 1: they started collecting as much data as they possibly could,
Speaker 1: and then they set about sorting through it and publishing
Speaker 1: papers based on the finding. Yeah, and you mentioned the
Speaker 1: cohort earlier there, and I'm just gonna go ahead and say,
Speaker 1: each of these cohort names is a great band name.
Speaker 1: All of them a blanket. That's a blanket, great band name. Statement.
Speaker 1: So the initial you said when they went out and
Speaker 1: got another seven forty people, who and those are the
Speaker 1: people who had the early signs of CBD. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were included in there. Okay, that's the Framing Him Cohort.
Speaker 1: That's everybody. That's the first group. Okay, all of the
Speaker 1: first group combined was the Framing Him Cohort. That's a
Speaker 1: that's kind of an emo folkey band. Then in seventy
Speaker 1: one they said, you know what, these people are having kids.
Speaker 1: So what would be awesome is if we started studying
Speaker 1: these children and their lifetimes and they were known as
Speaker 1: the Offspring Cohort. So that's like an offspring cover band. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's terrible. I thought, it's not bad. What what was offspring?
Speaker 1: I don't even know. Oh, remember you got to keep
Speaker 1: them separated. I do remember that song that was had
Speaker 1: a couple of good songs. Yeah, and I think the guy,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, and I'm not thinking of Milo
Speaker 1: from the Descendants, Um, this was the guy from Offspring
Speaker 1: went on to get like a PhD in like biochemistry
Speaker 1: or nuclear physics or something really impressive. Interesting, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I'm so I have no idea about any of that genre,
Speaker 1: whatever that genre is. I'm not sure what that is either.
Speaker 1: The Offspring were kind of their own thing. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: isn't it a part of just the whole Like what
Speaker 1: was that tour like the Vans Warped Tour and that
Speaker 1: all that stuff. I know nothing about any of those bands.
Speaker 1: I'll bet they were on Warped Tour now that you
Speaker 1: mentioned it. They were not definitely not a part of
Speaker 1: what was Lilith Fair No, no, but ironically they did
Speaker 1: go to a couple of dates just as audience member
Speaker 1: probably so. Alright, So the Offspring cohort were the kids.
Speaker 1: That was about fifty of them, and then they included
Speaker 1: their spouse is um which was a big deal because,
Speaker 1: like I said, adding the kids allowed to look for
Speaker 1: hereditary functions as far as CBD goes. And then the
Speaker 1: spouses just gave that extra layer of examination when they
Speaker 1: weren't related, right, Yeah, so it's almost like a built
Speaker 1: in control group as far as um looking at hereditary
Speaker 1: stuff goes. Right. And then that was also like I've
Speaker 1: seen it remarked on, man, my brain is a little
Speaker 1: broken to day. But um, the having adding the kids
Speaker 1: as a second cohort was was just a stroke of
Speaker 1: genius because even before they had any idea that we
Speaker 1: were going to be able to easily examine genes and
Speaker 1: d n A, they they started building this this study
Speaker 1: data that can be mined now for genetic stuff thanks
Speaker 1: to these guys foresight by adding this offspring cohort. That
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Uh. The first omni cohort first of three,
Speaker 1: those are all three good band names. And this was
Speaker 1: when they started getting that diversity. They said, hey, maybe
Speaker 1: we should sort of officially include this and break this out.
Speaker 1: So that was made up of about five hundred people
Speaker 1: of Native American descent, African American descent, Hispanic, Indian, Asian,
Speaker 1: and Pacific islander right first. And I guess second and
Speaker 1: third omni cohorts, And that was that's surprising to me
Speaker 1: that it took that long when they knew out of
Speaker 1: the gate that it wasn't representative of America as a whole. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's that's not to say that they didn't
Speaker 1: have any of those people in the study, but they
Speaker 1: officially recruited more. Isn't that right? That's my impression. Yeah, okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that the original cohort was entirely white,
Speaker 1: but I from what I understand, it was so so
Speaker 1: majority white that it was not representative of of America
Speaker 1: population wise. And by the way, Omni Cohort that's obviously
Speaker 1: a E d M band that would probably tour with
Speaker 1: like the Crystal Method or something like that. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then finally the third generation Cohort or Gin three, which
Speaker 1: is their album title, that started in two thousand two,
Speaker 1: and I think they're expected to shut that one down
Speaker 1: next year. That I thought was really weird. Why shut
Speaker 1: any of them down? Might not be like, we're gonna
Speaker 1: follow you to the grave, man, Yeah, we might even
Speaker 1: dig you up in ten years after you're dead in
Speaker 1: case we figure out something new to do with you,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And these are kids who had at
Speaker 1: least one parent in the offspring cohort? Is that right? Okay?
Speaker 1: And then there's another one called the offspring spousal cohort,
Speaker 1: the new offspring spouse cohort. Right, that's a that's just
Speaker 1: a weird one. Yeah, they're getting a little meta. Yeah, So, um,
Speaker 1: the new offspring spouse cohort is made up of spouses who,
Speaker 1: for whatever reasons, weren't part of the original offspring cohort
Speaker 1: and have at least two kids in the Gen three cohort?
Speaker 1: Is that correct? It gets a little wonky, But but
Speaker 1: the point is is they're like adding more and more
Speaker 1: people in the town. As the town's getting bigger and
Speaker 1: as the town's getting more diverse, they're they're making the
Speaker 1: study reflect this population more and more with the hopes
Speaker 1: that it's going to reflect America more and more. And
Speaker 1: they again this the study designers and and directors have
Speaker 1: always known that this isn't just like a perfect snapshot
Speaker 1: of America. Um, there's always been criticisms of it, and UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you want to take a break before
Speaker 1: we get into those, Okay, we will do that right
Speaker 1: after this. Okay, so I said, we're going to get
Speaker 1: into criticisms, but first we should probably talk about some
Speaker 1: of the successes, right yeah. And like I said earlier
Speaker 1: that so much of what we learned from this UM
Speaker 1: today seems just so brainless. But it's important to remember
Speaker 1: that before this, I mean, you still even though you think, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you smoke cigarettes, you're going to increase your risk of
Speaker 1: heart disease. It seems like such such a second nature
Speaker 1: thing to know now, But until you have actual scientific proof,
Speaker 1: you can't say something like that. And this study gave
Speaker 1: us a lot of these things that we take for
Speaker 1: granted now as obvious and proved them came out of
Speaker 1: this study in particular, And and cigarettes was a big one.
Speaker 1: I read in this article. I can't remember where it
Speaker 1: came from, Chuck, I sent to you where um they
Speaker 1: were talking about how one of the reasons why cardiovascular
Speaker 1: disease spiked in the forties was because they were giving
Speaker 1: free cigarettes out to all of the g I s
Speaker 1: during World War Two. They had like an endless supply
Speaker 1: of free cigarettes over there, and that they think that
Speaker 1: directly led to a rise in the in depths from
Speaker 1: cardiovascular disease. So, but no one knew for sure. Some
Speaker 1: people probably suspected. Every once in a while a newspaper
Speaker 1: would quote them. They would be called a crack potter
Speaker 1: and by somebody else in the in the article, and
Speaker 1: that would be that. Right. So these guys went to
Speaker 1: town like establishing a link between smoking and cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 1: They tried very very hard to um connect diet in
Speaker 1: cardiovascular disease and had very mixed results, so much so
Speaker 1: that some of their early work in that realm was
Speaker 1: just went unpublished. For the most part, they just kind
Speaker 1: of were like, uh, we'd don't understand this, so we're
Speaker 1: not gonna include this. But some of the other ones
Speaker 1: were stroke. Like, um, if you have cardiovascular disease, are
Speaker 1: at a much higher risk for stroke. Nobody knew that
Speaker 1: conclusively before. Yeah, they confirmed that things like cholesterol and
Speaker 1: blood pressure abnormalities increase your risk. UM, irregular heartbeat, atrial
Speaker 1: fibrillation increases your risk five times menopause. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a that was a big one, super big one. Um,
Speaker 1: here's here's one, Like, seriously, this was figured out in
Speaker 1: this study that um, physical activity decreases your risk for
Speaker 1: cardiovascular disease, while lower physical activity and obesity increases your risk.
Speaker 1: Like again, this is stuff that we're like, of course,
Speaker 1: who doesn't know that, well, American in the world didn't
Speaker 1: know that until Framing a Heart Study actually published its results. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here's one that. Um, if you're in your forties and
Speaker 1: you go to get a physical, there's a pretty to
Speaker 1: get a chance. At some point after your labs, your
Speaker 1: doctor will talk to you about your f R S score.
Speaker 1: You're Framing Him risk score. It is still widely used
Speaker 1: today as the standard. And that is the very sad
Speaker 1: moment where your doctor says you have this much of
Speaker 1: a percentage risk of of developing heart disease within ten
Speaker 1: years from this state. They tell you have a hundred
Speaker 1: and three risk. You say, well, what can it go
Speaker 1: up to and they say a hundred Yeah, that's not good. Um,
Speaker 1: so there's the Framing HUM risk score is based on
Speaker 1: a bunch of different risk factors. And by the way,
Speaker 1: the term risk factor was coined from the Framing Him
Speaker 1: Heart study, So that's another thing it gave to the world. Uh.
Speaker 1: Your risk factors are based on your age, your gender,
Speaker 1: total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, whether you have diabetes or not,
Speaker 1: whether you smoke or not, and your systolic blood pressure.
Speaker 1: You put all this together, each of those gets a score.
Speaker 1: You can come up with a really really good indicator
Speaker 1: of whether you're going to come down with a cardio
Speaker 1: of vascular disease in ten years. If you're a white guy, um,
Speaker 1: to a lesser extent, if you're an African American guy,
Speaker 1: to a much lesser extent, if you're a woman of
Speaker 1: I think any um ethnicity. Do you get a piscol
Speaker 1: every year? I try to. It's been Oh it hasn't
Speaker 1: been a year yet. I'm just under a year right now,
Speaker 1: but I need to find a new doctor. Are you.
Speaker 1: Uh how's your cholesterol? It's great man? My family dude?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, is that it runs high? Well? I mean
Speaker 1: I certainly do don't do myself any favors with my
Speaker 1: weight in my diet, but me, my brother, and my
Speaker 1: sister are all on cholesterol medication. Oh is that right? Statens?
Speaker 1: Is that what it's called? And and my brother like
Speaker 1: is in great shape, and so's my sister. So it's
Speaker 1: ah yeah, I mean it's just a totally Bryant family tradition,
Speaker 1: just naturally high cholesterol. Huh. Well, I mean my dementia
Speaker 1: runs in my family, so I'm toast one way or another.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it's basically you look at your
Speaker 1: family history and spin the big wheel. What's gonna kill me? Right,
Speaker 1: It's like common medical science, finally care for mine. Let's
Speaker 1: go with that one first. Well, thank god for statins there,
Speaker 1: you know now my cholesterol is great. So I since
Speaker 1: I went last went to the doctor, I've begun to
Speaker 1: introduce butter into my diet way more than I ever
Speaker 1: had before. But I love yes, of course, Um like
Speaker 1: a really if it has like a picture of an
Speaker 1: Amish person on the cover of the package, go with
Speaker 1: that butter butter. Yeah, And I actually I read a
Speaker 1: taste test on maybe rancor or something like that of
Speaker 1: butters and apparently the ones that are like a pound
Speaker 1: really don't taste much better than like Carrie gold that
Speaker 1: you get at the grocery store just about any grocery store.
Speaker 1: So I found like that's good. I'm not really missing
Speaker 1: out on anything. Um, I'll just eat more cheese butter
Speaker 1: and just like a little bit of butter on some
Speaker 1: bread is a really like delightful little treat um ten
Speaker 1: times a day. So I'm actually really interested to see
Speaker 1: what my cholesterol is like this year. I'm I'm basically
Speaker 1: just performing a test on myself right now. Well, and
Speaker 1: they've learned so much in the past like ten years
Speaker 1: or so about good fats and bad fats and low
Speaker 1: fat foods really not being all they're cracked up to be,
Speaker 1: because then they're packed with other things that are bad
Speaker 1: for you, especially high freak toose coins from Yeah it's good,
Speaker 1: we go with a good uh local butter called banner butter.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, it's it's good and you know, who knows
Speaker 1: if it tastes a better, but it's it's locally made,
Speaker 1: so that's always nice. Is it made from those doomed
Speaker 1: goats across the street from you know, we just fed
Speaker 1: them yesterday though, did you did you go? I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry for what's going to happen to you know we.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're doomed. I think they are are
Speaker 1: being raised again and sent to Jamaica. Not for food
Speaker 1: for what for for milk and cheese to raise people's spirits. Well,
Speaker 1: they certainly do that, those goats playing. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not like every goat has to be eaten to have worth. No,
Speaker 1: I agree. I'm just saying they're also milked in there cheese.
Speaker 1: We save all our Emily is a juicing theme now.
Speaker 1: So we have a lot of um green scraps now,
Speaker 1: so we just save them all and then about two
Speaker 1: times a week we'll we'll take the kid over there
Speaker 1: and feed the goats and it's pretty fun. They bray
Speaker 1: at us now when we leave our house. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like, can't you bring that over here? Pretty boomed? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they love it. So you guys have green scraps. Let
Speaker 1: me give you a little piece of advice to pass
Speaker 1: along to Emily. One word, but I'm going to pronounce
Speaker 1: it like to Vita mix. Oh dude, we've had a
Speaker 1: a mix for like ten years. Is that what you use? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you should have scraps. You gotta throw all that stuff
Speaker 1: in there so you get the fiber too. Now we
Speaker 1: we don't throw like the butt end of the celery
Speaker 1: stalk in there. Okay, all right, stuff like that. I
Speaker 1: got to because you know there's like there's like juicers
Speaker 1: that just extract the juice and leave all of the fiber.
Speaker 1: I thought that's what you were talking about. No, no no, no,
Speaker 1: we well we do two things. We have the Vita
Speaker 1: mix for a lot of the green smoothies and stuff.
Speaker 1: But then we are also juicing some of the stuff
Speaker 1: and uh, we'll give those the juice scraps to the goats.
Speaker 1: But we we do both like every morning now with
Speaker 1: some sort of green juice and smoothie. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: do have like a juice or juicer than two? Right? Yeah? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I have another piece of advice for you. You're gonna
Speaker 1: love this one. Get yourself some good mescal it's so
Speaker 1: hard to find these days. Juice, some cucumber, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: doing that. A little bit of lime juice which you
Speaker 1: don't need to run through the juicer, and then some
Speaker 1: sort of sweetener and thank me later. And and then mescal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, much as you like, because then we've been
Speaker 1: drinking the vodka. Uh with her fresh juices fail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that goes really well with the two. This is this
Speaker 1: is a different, This is something different. You know. The
Speaker 1: mess cow really stands out with the cucumber, makes it pop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: give it a shot. All right, are we gonna let's
Speaker 1: bring this homeless up torturing all these poor people who
Speaker 1: are still listening. I think we got off track with
Speaker 1: butter and goats, so f rs is what we were
Speaker 1: talking about. Oh, here's another one. For you. Uh, they've
Speaker 1: just some little ancillary things they've learned over time, because
Speaker 1: it's not just about CBD. They've learned about things like
Speaker 1: um depression and stress and anxiety, sleep apnea for one,
Speaker 1: increasing a risk of stroke. And then they gave a
Speaker 1: really uh ingenious thing when they just said, hey, we've
Speaker 1: got all these people over this big chunk of time,
Speaker 1: so why don't we start seeing if people will give
Speaker 1: us a little bit of brain matter upon death and
Speaker 1: we can start looking into things like Alzheimer's and dementia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they've actually found recently, at least in the framing
Speaker 1: and population, dementia's going down, which hopefully means that it's
Speaker 1: going down in the larger population as well. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they have all this study data and they say, well,
Speaker 1: let's start mining it for other diseases as well. And
Speaker 1: it's becoming not just a gold standard for cardiovascular disease,
Speaker 1: but for like other neurological diseases as well, and eventually,
Speaker 1: almost certainly it will become the gold standard for genetic
Speaker 1: investigations into diseases as well. Yeah, And like we've been
Speaker 1: talking about the lack of diversity over the like, basically
Speaker 1: this is really good results for white dudes. They have
Speaker 1: since over the years included other calculators for minority groups.
Speaker 1: For women, Uh, the f risk calculator is for British
Speaker 1: minority groups. The Reynolds Risk score has been developed for women. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think a couple of others too, where they've
Speaker 1: tried to take all this data and then tailor it
Speaker 1: to a specific group. They've also found that people who
Speaker 1: go on vacation to have lower incidences of cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 1: So remember to vacate at least twice a year. Uh.
Speaker 1: What else? Oh that thing about dating people who look
Speaker 1: like you? That was interesting. Yeah, I guess they saw
Speaker 1: that in the initial cohort, a lot of people, a
Speaker 1: lot of married couples looked alike. And they think that
Speaker 1: people were preferentially seeking out people about their height, their weight, um,
Speaker 1: maybe their hair color, who knows, but that that's largely
Speaker 1: gone away in the second and third cohorts. I also
Speaker 1: read an article that UM said that they found that
Speaker 1: human evolution is still going on. They're noticing that each
Speaker 1: generation of women is slightly shorter, slightly pump plumper, and
Speaker 1: I'm talking like a tenth of an inch shorter and
Speaker 1: something like a half of a pound heavier, but that
Speaker 1: they this is traditionally tied to UM being able to
Speaker 1: easy more easily UM have live births, another way to
Speaker 1: put his having kids, because a lot easier to have kids, right,
Speaker 1: is wrong with me? Um? So they think that this
Speaker 1: is like as they're seeing in in framing evolution still
Speaker 1: in place, which very much contradicts what a lot of
Speaker 1: people have long said, which is humans took ourselves out
Speaker 1: of evolution a while back when we started intervening in
Speaker 1: medicine and things like that. So that just the this
Speaker 1: cool pictures of humanity that this is provided. It's pretty sweet,
Speaker 1: pretty pretty great study. Actually it is, and hopefully this
Speaker 1: will be I know they had a little trouble getting
Speaker 1: extended funding at one point, and they had some private
Speaker 1: institutions that stepped up, some kind of unusual ones like
Speaker 1: Oscar Meyer, and I believe that one of the cigarette companies, right,
Speaker 1: and then Nixon eventually he got out the checkbook and
Speaker 1: wrote him a big fat check, probably probably the thing
Speaker 1: that he's most known for his president too, I think,
Speaker 1: so continuing the framing Him heart study, I read that
Speaker 1: he got out the checkbook or or twisted the arm
Speaker 1: of the National Heart Institute. Um, because one of the
Speaker 1: early champions of the Heart Study was Nixon's personal doctor,
Speaker 1: and that's how it all went down. He's like, turn
Speaker 1: your head and cough and give us fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1: You got anything else? Nope, Well, we could probably just
Speaker 1: talk about framing him for days, but we're gonna stop now.
Speaker 1: I would urge you to go read I'm not even
Speaker 1: sure when it was written, but a CBS Sunday Morning
Speaker 1: article from maybe like the early two thousand's about framing
Speaker 1: him and the Heart Study, and it really just kind
Speaker 1: of gives you a picture of the people there. And
Speaker 1: then I also saw when that was critical of it
Speaker 1: that was pretty interesting, called framing him follies on something
Speaker 1: called protein power dot com. Um, just go read them both.
Speaker 1: You'll enjoy it. Uh. And since I said you'll enjoy it,
Speaker 1: it's time for listener, ma'am. I'm gonna call this follow
Speaker 1: up on the beach near the Hearst Castles a couple
Speaker 1: of week to go. We talked about the when I
Speaker 1: went and I thought I didn't think there are Walrus's.
Speaker 1: I just couldn't remember what they were, and they are,
Speaker 1: in fact elephant seals. I said they were sea lions.
Speaker 1: That was wrong. Oh that's right, you did say sea lions.
Speaker 1: Well that's right. Um. Hey, guys, listen to the show
Speaker 1: on Walrus's and Chuck referred to the beach near Herst Castle.
Speaker 1: They call it Piedras Blanca's Elephant Seal Rock Rookery. I
Speaker 1: think it's funny that you had mentioned that because for
Speaker 1: our honeymoon last June, my husband and I stayed in
Speaker 1: Oceano for a week near Pismo Beach, and one of
Speaker 1: our activities for a day was to go to Hearst
Speaker 1: Castle and Elephant Seal Beach. Of course, hers Castle was amazing.
Speaker 1: I still haven't been in there. I need to check
Speaker 1: that out. Uh. You know that one party scene at
Speaker 1: in Billy Madison was filmed at Hurst Castle. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: never saw that. Still. Um. Getting to see the architectural
Speaker 1: history and artifacts that reside there were great. But the beach, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: on that particularly, was pretty quiet. I think it was
Speaker 1: a nap time by the time we got there, because
Speaker 1: most of them are sleeping or adjusting and going back
Speaker 1: to sleep. Well, it's still fun to see him. It's
Speaker 1: not like they're out there with with the beach ball.
Speaker 1: Like in cartoons, it's fun. It's fun to be overpowered
Speaker 1: by their stench when you're down wind of that massive elephant.
Speaker 1: That uh. There were a few males that started an altercation,
Speaker 1: but that ended pretty quickly and wasn't all that noisy.
Speaker 1: I think the most interesting thing on that day, besides
Speaker 1: seeing them up close, he was watching them sleep in
Speaker 1: the water. First, I got a little nervous because I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if they were alive, but after several minutes
Speaker 1: of watching one of them, it moved once the waves
Speaker 1: pushed it close enough to the rocks. However, if you
Speaker 1: do suggest people to go there, please tell them to
Speaker 1: be aware there are no feeding of the squirrel signs.
Speaker 1: There was a group of preteens that didn't regard the
Speaker 1: sign and literally got chased by a big, fat squirrel.
Speaker 1: It was hilarious to watch, but a little scary. Thanks
Speaker 1: for the show. I hope you're doing well. Keep up
Speaker 1: the work. And that is Morrigan body and Morgan actually
Speaker 1: just emailed back when I told her she was going
Speaker 1: to be on and said, o MG, no way for exclamations.
Speaker 1: Thanks smiley face emoji, and then she inserted I guess
Speaker 1: her or previous surname Morgan Meyer's body. Okay, way to go, Morgan.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the emojis and the exclamation points to all
Speaker 1: for it. If you have a story you want to
Speaker 1: straighten us out with, you can tweet to us at
Speaker 1: josh um Clark or at s Y s K podcast.
Speaker 1: You can also go on to Facebook dot com slash
Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You can also visit Facebook dot
Speaker 1: com slash stuff you Should Know. Send us an email
Speaker 1: to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and
Speaker 1: join us at our home on the web, stuff you
Speaker 1: should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands
Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com